Why I hate Kevin Bieksa
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
in From The Branches
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PrintSo right now, as I write this, I'm in a bad mood. Just kinda frustrated with everything, really. So I decided to take out this frustration on a favourite target of mine, Kevin Bieksa. I guess it starts at the fact that his appearance for the Canucks coincided with a bad final season for one of my favourite NHL defenseman, Ed Jovanovksi. I have no idea why I loved Jovo so much - maybe because he was like a better Bryan McCabe - but he was one of my favourite non-Leafs. Of course, the year I moved to Vancouver he was injured for most of the season, but when he did play I really enjoyed watching him. He took a lot of risks but was exciting on the ice. He really made the Canucks go. Anyways, while he was injured, Bieksa finally got his shot at the NHL and seemed to make the most of it. Everyone said it was time to let Jovo walk as a UFA and sign Bieksa who looked like a younger version of Jovanovski. So that's exactly what happened - Dave Nonis let Jovo walk and this new, undrafted kid who had one good season got an extension.
Anyways, that's where everything went wrong. After causing Vancouver to run one of my favourite players out of town, Bieksa became a smug jerk. He started being lazy. He suffered a really bad cut to the back of his leg, and was out for a while. When he finally came back, he seemed lazier still. After the whole Shane O'Brien scoring into his own net debacle - and the fact that the Canucks defense just isn't that good - I thought it was understandable for fans to be scared whenever the puck was heading towards their net and Bieksa lackadaisically skated back to retrieve it. One night, while at a game, Bieksa was doing this again, and the crowd started to get on him. What did he do? He looked up, waived his hand at the crowd, and continued merrily on his way.
It was at that moment that my dislike for Bieksa became hate. Be lazy, make excuses, be delusional, but respect the fans. Never, ever waive the fans off. Ass. I can't wait for Gillis to trade his ass for spare parts so I don't have to hear from Bieksa fans in this city again.
Here's your links.
- Why the Maple Leafs can make the playoffs
The Hockey News thinks the Leafs will be better than most people expect next year. - Burke no fan of CBA loophole
The National Post interviews Burke on why he refuses to take advantage of these long term deals. - Vintage Leaf on Preds on the Glass podcast
Vintage Leaf Memories was featured on a podcast. Link is through here. - Jackets, Stralman will go to Arbitration
Former Leaf Anton Stralman is going to arbitration with his team, the Columbus Blue Jackets. Anyone care to guess on what his award will be? - The Era of the Cheap Goalie
The Hockey Writers looks at the new trend in goaltending contracts. - Ahahahahaha, or: Possible Defensemen for the Kings
RudyKelly at Battle of California throws out Kaberle's name as a possible target for the Kings. He says Kabby's a no, so really I'm linking to this because I completely agree with his assesment of Kevin Bieksa. - Notes + FanPosts
MLHS with a few notes, and part 2 of the Leafs Preseason Synopsis - Forwards. - Time ticking on Kaberle deal.
budBlog is getting concerned about how quickly the deadline is approaching for Kaberle's trade window. - 7 Reasons #84 Should Stay
raskofalltrades tells us why Grabbo should stick around. - Gone Fishing: A Week of Conversation Between Burke and Nonis
Curt S did a little eavesdropping. I like what he heard on day 3.
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Jovo truly was the shit
But Nonis was probably right to let him walk. Phoenix has taken a beating by paying him $6.5M a year for the last five years.
That’s almost Coach Gretzky money.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Jul 27, 2010 8:08 AM EDT reply actions
All this Bieksa talk reminds me of my hate of Ryan Kesler. But is he really that bad a player, an overly glorified grinder (Kesler)? Or is he in fact a highly effective defensive forward who can put up some points, and also brings lots of INTANGIBLES!?
They seem to like him at Behind the Net, and its completely possible my feelings are an irrational by-product of the Olympics. So… Discuss.
Well, he put up almost a ppg and had a better pts/60 than any Leaf but Bozak while playing opponents’ top lines and putting up great corsi numbers relative to his QoC. Plus he’s 25 and has improved every year he’s played.
So yeah, I think he’s pretty good.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Kesler
is a pretty damn good #2 centre ice man. Probably one of the top 3 or 4 #2 guys in the NHL.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
True
he had a rediculously good season last year too, decent ones before that.
He’s one of those guys I just hope regresses ‘cause I don’t like him.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not a big Kesler fan. I think it stems from when ESPN (?) did a “Comparable Players” feature and had him matched with Wendel.
He’s good, but is he Wendel good?
by WendelMadeMe on Jul 27, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Hating a player for what ESPN says….
You must hate Favre and Lebron too, right?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said hate, I just said I wasn’t a fan.
by WendelMadeMe on Jul 27, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
He might be better
from every aspect, except for the whole fighting and hitting and scaring the bejeezus out of people thing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
What are their career adjusted GVTs?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually haven't looked
and I’m not sure that would be a fair comparison since Kesler is only in his 5th year of his career… Wendel played quite a bit beyond that… the whole maturation thing would impact it to some extent so far wouldn’t it?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
At 25 Kesler’s two best GVTs (16.6 and 12.6) are better than Wendel’s 2 best (16.5 and 10.8).
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Kesler is going to end up superior.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Wendel
had one solid 4 year stretch… and he was only over a GVT of 10 in two of those years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
8.9
and 9.8 were the other two years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
oh and Kesler's top two GVT
seasons are the past two successively, and he’s improved his GVT in every single season he’s played in the NHL.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Kesler projects better on almost any objective measure.
Wendel is one of the few cases where I feel I have enough information to say his “intangibles” actually matter.
Contrary to popular belief I don’t believe intangibles are irrelevant, I just think they are very team specific and extremely difficult to identify accurately.
With Wendel, I know he brought intangibles to the Leafs (not so much to his various other teams—let’s pretend those don’t exist, right?) Kesler may too for the Canucks, I just can’t say.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
This is where I got the
scaring the bejeezus out of people thing from.
Kesler isn’t particularly scary to his opposition from a physical standpoint, and he certainly would never be able to mangle the likes of Marty McSorely… so yeah… he just isn’t in the same class in that regard.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s an American Hero, so I don’t know why you’d dislike him.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
You define American Hero’s with silver medals?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Unlike Canada, the USA is not such a front-running country of bandwagonners that we will only root for our team if they win gold.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, cuz everyone loved USA Soccer 2 months ago right?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I’ve been hoping Davies would make it back to the team since his accident. I’m sorry Canadian soccer can’t even sniff the tournament.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
We all know Canada is not very good at soccer, nor do we act like they are. I don’t even know what that had to do with the discussion
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Fine, we’ll drop that part. The two biggest ticket-purchasing countries for World Cup tickets were the USA and the UK, and those tickets went on sale over 2 months before the games.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
you bought tickets? Clearly you support a loser. USA Soccer is never going to pay for good players if you sheeple keep filling the stands.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
by pevans on Jul 27, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Unlike Canada, the USA is not such a front-running country of bandwagonners that we will only root for our team if they win gold.
Hmmm really? Interesting view point, but me being a Canadian that lives here in the US I would have to say it seems to me that American’s only do cheer or root for winners and forgotten, like it never happened, if they lose. Just my observations of 10+ yrs living here.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APOtRvO6moA
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lffkj9Xf8TY
<3 you
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Canada is good at soccer
we just tend to send our players overseas to play for other countries that their parents originated in.
see Owen Hargreaves, the younger De Guzman bro., and that goalie that recently bailed on us so he could play for the soccer power house that is Bosnia…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
We’ve all got our Giuseppe Rossis
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
“Off the field, I have always felt American. On the field, I’ve always felt Italian.” – some kid cut from a team that didn’t even get out of their group
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Would have if he was on that fuckin team.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
that's loser talk
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
heh
we’re Leaf fans. do we really expect excellence…? Hope for excellence, sure…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I meant re: international play [since we were talking about USA and Silver], but I think it applies to leafs fans too; this is the same group of fans that was trying to figure out just how many consecutive games we could win in order to get out of the lottery pick.
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
is that how we define excellence now; not getting a lottery pick? :)
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, can I point out that we also failed to meet that “excellence?”
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a little painful to lose in the end, but I’m fine with my team winning every game on their way to the finals and forcing overtime at the last minute of the final game.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Any player I’d happily see on the Leafs is a player I can’t hate. Ryan Kessler as a Leaf would be fantastic, and he’d instantly be a local favorite. I’d say I’m more envious of Kessler than hate.
Hate is reserved for guys like Brendan Witt or Sean Avery.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Kessler would instantly be our top Center. And probably a great fit with Kessel.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Can you imagine Joe Bowen trying to call that line?
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Jul 27, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah…was thinking the same. Spit all over the mic.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
KKK Line
Kesler Kessel Kulemin
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Would never work
Kesler would have to be #2 behind Bozak.
VOTE VALK!
http://www.nameourcondo.com/entry/319
Name a Toronto condo after Garry Valk.
by Montreal Export on Jul 27, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
that guy too
damn dirty ape
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Kesler is a great player, a perfect #2 center behind Henrik Sedin.
He’s just got a huge ego and opens his mouth too much and then doesn’t do what he says everyone else should do (ie. take a discount to stay in Vancouver if they want to compete.)
So, basically, the perfect Burke player.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
How can you possibly not be an arrogant blowhard when you reach such heights as the NHL 2k11 cover? These are Kesler’s salad days indeed.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jul 27, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Bieksa trade
Careful what you wish for. Knowing Burke predilection for truculence and defenceman, watch him get traded here
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I like Bieksa
Because he plays for the Canucks, and he is a less-skilled, mistake-filled version of Jeff Finger, brutal contract and all. I don’t like the Canucks, therefore I like Kevin Bieksa.
If I can't be a good example, then I will just have to serve as a horrible warning...
by CancerousRocket on Jul 27, 2010 9:15 AM EDT reply actions
Also, he is injured all the time…
If I can't be a good example, then I will just have to serve as a horrible warning...
by CancerousRocket on Jul 27, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
True. If you hate Bieksa, you have to love the freak injuries. The guy needs a horseshoe stapled to his ass wherever he goes next.
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Jul 27, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Wheeler, Moulson arbitrations today
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
I'm looking forward to those
Wheeler gets around $3.0 mill and Moulson gets around $2.8 methinks.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
largely on the basis of
Wheeler has more NHL games, and playoff experience… Moulson has one 30 goal season and zero playoff games.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
anyone think there's a chance of a sign and trade?
in the case of Wheeler?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Can you do that with Arbitration cases? I know you can’t with offer sheets.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
remember
Boston wanted Kaberle prior to last year, and they dealt Wideman in order to get Horton. If they sign Wheeler for $3 mill or so, and then trade him and Savard for Kaberle and hmmm Grabovski? is that ridiculous?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d prefer Savard + Wheeler for Kaberle and call it a salary dump.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
They'd want a pick
or prospect in return also then.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh ya
I’m too tired for trade debates today. Let’s just see how Arb goes.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
I’ve been looking forward to the Wheeler arb case for a long time. Boston is within $12,299 of the cap, so as soon as his case is settled they’re either walking or making a trade.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re up against the real cap but the cushion gives us some wiggle-room. Either way I’m pretty sure the team is dead-set on signing Seguin so feel free to go over to capgeek and add Hall from the oilers to our cap debacle.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Even though I know there is 0 shot of getting Ian White back
I think his case will be the most interesting.
As many others have said, if Sutter lets him walk UFA because the award is too high it will continue his shame from the Phaneuf trade.
Let’s face it… if White wasn’t the centrepiece for that trade, it was Stajan.
Yikes.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Stajan would be a great #2 center. He was our #1 unfortunately.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
But he's no
Ryan Kesler
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Vancouver are so lucky to have the Sedins cheap. Those are like long tail cap hits without the long tail. Really gives them a major advantage… such as being able to pay their #2C $5MM.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
And now he's battling Jokinen for #1 in Calgary.
Oy.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Jokinen is better
than Stajan… by a pretty wide margin. He’s just had some hard luck the past two years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Even still, i dont ever see a return to 90 pt seasons for ol' eyebrows
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
The correct Jokinen nickname is “Pumpkin Head”.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
the headless norseman.
it made me think of stajan as ichebod crane and darryl as the mayor of sleepy sutter.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
no, the correct nickbame for him the “Päällikkö”
Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.
One more year!
I’m not sure but I’d say “gesundheit” afterwards.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
something like this but not quite
Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.
One more year!
pumpkiners
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah
but 65 would be doable… and I think that’s better than Stajan will manage anytime soon.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s ridiculous.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Because we'd be offering
too much or too little? or you don’t want wheeler and savard?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh I forgot
you’re a Boston fan… ok well the whole issue I suppose you have is adding Kaberle + Grabovski then.
Grabovski is actually under-rated frankly… and Kaberle easily replaces the offense you lost in Wideman.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Boston would
be picking up $142,857 in salary.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle + Grabo
make $7.15 million, Savard makes $4,007,143 and if Wheeler signed for $3 mill that would be $7.007143… thus giving us the difference.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
We can take on like 5 bucks in salary.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok
so you’d probably rather just take Kaberle and a prospect in exchange for the two of them?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather not give a point-per-game player to a team whose first-rounder we have.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
But you're getting
a puck moving D man! Who plays really really soft D!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Can't do that with Arb - it would have to be Boston signing then trading.
If it reaching Arbitration, you can’t trade him for 1 year I think.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok
so they might sign before Arb and then do something like that… didn’t realize you couldn’t deal after accepting an Arbitration
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya it’s some weird rule in the CBA. I doubt it ever becomes a problem, especially for 1 year deals. But I think they put it in for exactly this situation.
On another note, do sign-and-trades even happen anymore? (in the NHL anyway)
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure why they couldn't
I don’t think there’s any rules preventing it … especially if you’re just extending your own player before trading them.
I also don’t see why Wheeler or Savard would object… Savard has family in the area, and Wheeler is close friends with Kessel.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s no benefit to the players in the NHL for a sign-and-trade. The only reason it works in the NBA is because there is a huge bonus for resigning vs. free agent signing.
by unavoidable on Jul 27, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure that’s the case with matching an offer sheet. I’m not sure about whether you can with arbitration.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Well then
maybe I lied.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think you’re allowed to do that, so no.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Unless
as already mentioned, they sign Wheeler prior to arbitration, and then make the trade.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Either way
it’s not going to happen.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
They’re in the hearing now so I don’t think they’re signing ahead of time.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Handshakes all around!
“sorry mr. arbitrator sir, we have come to an agreement!… everyone let us retire to the smoking room to light these humungous cigars!”
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s going to be some fast maneuvering.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Those numbers seem fair and make sense. I wonder if the “MacArthur @ $2.4 Million” is a forbearance of higher payouts this year.
by WendelMadeMe on Jul 27, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh
it certainly seems to have scared a bunch of GMs into signing instead of letting their players hit arb
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
MacArthur can’t be referred to in future arbs because ATL walked away.
Informally the other arbitrators are probably aware of it and it may even temper their awards. No one likes being made to look like they’re out to lunch, which is what a walkaway does.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
OK true but
Clearly there was some set of comparables the arbitors used to award MacArthur that money – nothing to stop them from using those same comparables for Wheeler, White, Niemi, Fleishmann, etc.
Still could hit high #s, even without directly using MacArthur’s as a comparable.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I couldn’t say for sure without running the numbers. Comparables are pretty closely tied to position, games played, TOI, ppg, PIMs, etc. White and Niemi comparables wouldn’t have anything to do with MacArthur’s comparables, and I just don’t know if Wheeler would. I’m pretty sure Flash would not.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm really curious
what those comparables were.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be something like:
For platform year and 2/3 yrs to platform, +/- 33% in ppg, TOI and PIM
For career, +/- 25% GP.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
ok
so we’re looking at the last 120 games or so? and roughly the same TOI and PIM?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
They need to have a comparable platform year (i.e. year before latest contract), 2-3 yrs to platform, and overall experience. Within that both sides twist and cherrypick to get desirable comparables.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
The NHL and PA have a proprietary database that let you run those “range” searches for guys by platform year etc. (and any other NHL-maintained stats). I would dearly love someone to put up a public database like that—it’s the only way to predict arbs.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Well you can do it using a combination
of the NHL’s website and Hockey-Reference.com fairly easily… not as easily as they can mind you
but it still isn’t impossible.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Certainly not impossible, just laborious. With the NHL database you can run a set of comparables in 30 seconds. Would probably take 30 minutes with what we have.
And you need to run multiple sets of comparables to figure out the right one.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
hockey-reference’s “power play” is pretty good
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but it doesn’t let you do the +/- percentage range—you need to do it manually—and then you have to go and manually look up the contract status for each player generated.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Doing a range isn't that hard if you have a calculator beside you
which I do.
Either way, so far I’ve got Filppula (at $3 mill cap hit), Kulemin ($2.35 mill cap hit), looking for more.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Versteeg
is at $3 mill, Perron just signed at $2.15 mill
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Dubinsky signed
before last year at $1.85…
ok so he might be awarded $2.5 looking at these numbers.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
A question I don’t know the answer to is whether they even look at annual salaries anymore given how they are rigged for various reasons. Pre-lockout annual salaries mattered, now it may just be AAV.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it would be
cap hit… and nothing else.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Kulemin’s 2.35 mil cap hit contract is this year, so it’s not admissible.
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
gotcha
so he’s out then.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
so is Perron
for that matter.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Why is that?
I thought recent awards/settlements were admissible. Only walkaways aren’t.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
See
I’m glad you guys are here to have this debate so I don’t actually have to go look it up myself. Would someone please confirm or deny..
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone was saying that contracts signed in the current offseason weren’t admissible as comparables. Maybe I’m mistaken?
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that was me. Heard it on the radio from some reputable hockey guys in Calgary. Can’t quote their source though nor corroborate.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s in the CBA. Get a copy here.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
reading the CBA is great when you can’t fall asleep.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, thanks. but i’m going to go ahead and not do that.
for the reason karina points out, but also because a large % of the commenters here have already read it.
besides, by the time i’m through with it, there will be a new one anyway!
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow that’s a lot. I haven’t looked at comparables and so can’t disagree with you but I would think the Bruins at least would walk away from Wheeler for that.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
FOUL
there is a picture of a Canuck on the front page and he isn’t getting pummeled or scored on by a Leaf
but no pop
disagree
He’s got the sad face. That’s good enough for me.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
That's his normal face
so I don’t think he’s particularly sad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah
What I would do for that guy to be out of a Canucks uniform
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
But that’s not Bieksa.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Ya... except...
he’s even worse than Bieksa. Good thing we should be Hordichuk free soon, except as injury replacements.
by Vancouverguy on Jul 28, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Islanders settled with Matt Moulson before arbitration.
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Smart. That could have gotten ugly for them.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
They just played a clip of their arbitration hearing with Tommy Salo on repeat for him.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 27, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder
what the terms are.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
nm
1 year $2.45 mill
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Not bad. Probably a bit of an overpayment given he only played one season but if he’s not a one hit wonder that’ll be a steal.
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And he gets to be UFA
after this season I believe. If he can repeat he gets to cash in large.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
hmmm
TSN saying Frolov is on the verge of signing a one year deal with NYR
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=328588
Maybe it’s old news.
BS
was up
yesterday.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
If it really is Afinigenov style, I’m in. Make him a Leaf
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea Frolov for a year would be acceptable.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 27, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Less than a year. Trade deadline.
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I'd take Frolov
no problem… I’d like that a lot more than Kovalchuk for eons at a huge cap hit frankly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately
word is that Burke et al have zero interest in him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s likely too old for Burke’s taste, and I don’t think Burke has interest in pulling a pump and dump when this year is probably going to be about developing chemistry and developing skills. Youth, youth, youth.
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be incredibly short sighted.
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How so? A pump and dump with Frolov will only take minutes from our young wingers (and may arguably hurt development), and probably won’t bring back any future-altering assets at the deadline. A second round pick maybe.
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Which?
young LW would he be snatching minutes from? You’ve only got 3 wingers on the top 2 lines right now… you need another. There’s no young Leaf winger waiting to play in the top 6 who is worthy of the designation at this point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
You're basically worried that he'll take minutes away from
Luca Caputi or perhaps Colby Armstrong… I do not see how this is a problem.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure you’re one of them, but many people have suggested that Caputi gets a more sustained/legit shot at being a top 6 left winger. Then there’s Kulemin. And remember that if the target is a LW, we still do have some assets to deal. I’m pretty sure any return for Kaberle will involve a young scoring winger (Versteeg can play left if we get a RW). And I’d rather have that than Frolov at 3.75+ mil. /shrug.
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I see Armstrong as a 2nd or 3rd line winger. Caputi plays the same role. Frolov is a 1st line winger.
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Point is to get Frolov on a cheap one year deal, a la Afinigenov last season.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm fine with
caputi NOT getting much of a shot… Kulemin, Versteeg, and Kessel are our top 6 wingers on the team currently. We need one more.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess the counterargument is that Caputi has consistently produced in the AHL.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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and every other level he played at.
If he impresses at camp, I would give him a shot at playing with Grabbo and Versteeg on the second line
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Stylistically I think he’d match up better with Bozak and Kessel. Park your ass in front of the net, so the goalie can’t see Kessel’s laserbeam wristshot, tap in rebounds.
Resident Capologist
I agree with you, just thinking that the top line that ended the season last year will prolly start the year. Unless Versteeg moves to the left and plays top line
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Well, any line combinations will have been changed seven times by Thanksgiving, so…
Resident Capologist
That’s canadian thanksgiving
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yep. It’ll be triple that by US Thanksgiving.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think his AHL production warrants more than the 20 game audition last year. And if you normalize is s% last year his production wasn’t terrible for our 4th winger.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Hidden factor.
Caputi’s going to lose waiver exemption at some point this season. Giving him a 20-30-game tryout and then deciding he needs additional seasoning in the A could be problematic.
If he’s not going to play in our top 6 effectively every night from the beginning of the season, he’s better off starting with the Marlies like Bozak or Hanson did last season, in order to defer the waiver issue as long as possible.
Resident Capologist
Well that is an excellent point as well
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
For the record, I like the idea of Caputi as a third plugger much more than a top-six super star. And for a guy that’s supposed to be very good in close to the net, he either needs a lot more size or a lot more experience. I’d love to see him bulk up and be responsible for shoveling in Phaneuf’s rebounds.
But I agree that we need one more winger. I really, really do. I also think that if we get someone who’s significantly older than our other wingers, then that player isn’t a part of the future, he’s just a stopgap. We talk about “when we’re contending” and “down the road,” but unless we’re talking about developing young, talented players, then we’re just trying for the Free Agent Lotto.
Let’s say we pump and dump Frolov. He’s out for one year, we get a second round pick for his playoff work, and we pick some guy that looks like he’ll be a top 6 forward. 18 years old. We then have to go roughly 4 years before that asset matures into a 22 year old that’s likely to make an impact in the NHL. If he makes it at all. At this point, Kessel is 26 and in his “physical prime.” Versteeg, Bozak and Kulemin are 28, Armstrong is (assuming we extended him) 31. Grabbo is 30. They’re all either peak or post-peak, and our second line left winger is…22.
Our horse is pretty much hitched to at least two of the four Kessel, Versteeg, Bozak, and Kulemin. They’re all a similar age, and though we’ll probably ditch any underproducers for young looking, proven scorers (to try again), I have to think we’ll be trying to make a cup run based on their development and their physical peaks.
I just don’t see how pump-and-dump for a team that’s not rebuilding through the draft is at all enticing.
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It works if, instead of getting a draft pick, the Leafs got a young prospect, a la Luca Caputi.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Mueller! Ride the German!
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see how having him signed to a 1 year deal
hurts the development of the Leafs youth. especially if you can trade him at the deadline for another pick minimum.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he’s no older than Lebda and Armstrong, right?
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm
well he’d be ahead of a lot of younger Leafs on the depth chart, unlike Lebda and Armstrong, who are more behind said young Leafs.
I just think keeping Kadri in the AHL is a good idea and I’m willing to do anything to make it happen.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Uh huh.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 27, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
NY has something we don't
Marian Gaborik… I’m sorry but he’s a lot better than kessel at this stage.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Think about NYR's top line if this happens
Gaborik AND Frolov on opposite sides? that’d be sorta sick.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Just stick
Prospal out there for some sick feeds and they’d snipe so many goals on the PP.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Think about NYR’s top line when Gaborik hurts his hip in December.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Hmm
he made it through last year for the most part unscathed.
And having Frolov at least gives them a scoring threat if he does go down.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
He’ll find a way to get hurt, even if it is jumping over lundqvist again.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
He averages
64 games a season over his 9 year career, and that’s including one season where he only played 17 games.
If you take that one out, he’s averaged 70 games a season over his career. I’d take that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
NYR: The poor man’s Washington. But with a better goalie.
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
NYR: The poor man’s Washington. But with abettergoalie.
Fixed.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Uhhhh Lundqvist is an amazing goalie. Top 5 no question.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I believe Sergei is pointing out that Washington’s goalies suck.
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Fungah!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
DING DING DING!
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
at least theodore looked better then the NY dude… :(
Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.
One more year!
ooooh I dunno. Theodore is hot, but so’s Lundqvist. Plus, Lundvist has that whole Olympic gold medal going for him, which adds to his hotness.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
sniff :(
i don’t find him hot. now excuse me, i’m gonna go back to search for lundqvist voodoo doll
Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.
One more year!
oh you girls…
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He is a jerk, I’ll give you that.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Jokinen got his revenge, though.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s saying Washington doesn’t have a goalie at all
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Varlamov will certainly be a legit number one goaltender at some point, but I really do question their decision not to sign a goalie and shelter him for another year. I mean, it’s a buyer’s freakin’ market, so why not?
They can
still sign Turco… nothing’s stopping them.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe they’ve said their not interested, and that Varly/Neuvi is their combo going forwards. They may (and should) change their minds, but if this still stands – especially after missing out on the Hamhuis and Volchenkovs of this season – they’re another Southeast division champ and a first round exit.
???
As in Frolov is willing to play for less, in order to play with Gaborik?
No need to apologize. I didn’t say Kessel was better than Gaborik at this point. Don’t know where you’re getting that from.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
No
I’m sorry about the fact that there’s no hope in hell of Frolov coming to Toronto if the dollars offered are the same in NY.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
This is true.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 27, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Although
Toronto has more Russian forwards than the Rangers do… if that helps.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
woops
no we don’t… nevermind.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
NY has something we don’t in Marion Gaborik – a young man in an old man’s body.
WHoops there goes the hip.
A Nation of Masochists
1967 - Owning the drought since 2010
It half-broke yesterday. A lot of “probably,” “maybe,” and “they’re still in talks.” Even this is “on the verge.”
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Down Goes Brown’s newest post is up on the National Post: http://natpo.st/dck3I4
Help him out and leave a comment about how much you like the piece. Don’t lie or anything; this isn’t a ballot stuffing operation, but I’m guessing that having tons of people commenting about how they like his work will help DGB out in the future.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Thanks Chemmy.
It would also helped if you called them up, told them you saw the piece, and then buy a daily subscription. Or maybe several.
I’ll totally pay you back next time I see you.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 27, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll pay myself back for this the next time we hang out. You’ll see.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I've got a daily subscription already
which they have given to me for free… and I don’t have to renew… or anything… they literally give the thing away… hmmm. Great article though Sean… I chuckled out loud in front of my students who are busily studying for an exam tomorrow.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, they hand those out to teachers, going to take advantage when I find employment.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 27, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
it had nothing to do with teaching
They hand them out to residents of Toronto… via the phone. really quite easy.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait, you’re a teacher? So, like, you own the Leafs?
GET HIM!
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Jul 27, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I think last year he owned Toskala’s 5-hole and Van Ryn’s knee.
by not norm ullman on Jul 27, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey Guys,
I’m going to post a 3-part fan-post today. Here’s part I: here.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jul 27, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions
Can I just say
Mike Komisarek’s GVT is horrible for his career? Jeff Finger’s has been higher consistently… that really bothers me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Finger's
career GVT = 16.7, Lebda’s career GVT = 21.4, Komisarek’s career GVT = 12.0
Komisarek has played 395 games in comparison to Finger’s 199, and Lebda’s 326.
Why are we paying Komisarek so much money again?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
GVT doesn’t account for QoC and QoT so guys who play “hard minutes” are penalized. That’s why Volchenkov’s GVT is also pretty pedestrian (and why Kaberle’s is still relatively good).
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
You just quasi-defended Komisarek.
Start stocking up on canned foods, everyone. The apocalypse can’t be far behind.
/jokes
Resident Capologist
Yeah, as I dove into the strengths and weaknesses of GVT when doing my fanpost series I looked deeper at some other advanced stats and realized there are some guys with hidden value.
That said I still think Komi is overpaid and wish we hadn’t signed him. So don’t worry, the apocalypse is not nigh. I’’m just hoping he can be a solid guy who plays 19-20MPG against tough competition. That’s probably worth $3MM.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
But
Komisarek’s GVT being “pedestrian” isn’t really explained if you consider that his Corsi QoC was far lower than Finger’s last season, and he had a lower GVT rating DESPITE that fact. The same goes for the year before in Montreal when he faced the lowest QoC of any of the Montreal D who played over 45 games.
His numbers are just outright bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Komi hasn’t been good since ’07-08 really.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
OR
Jeff Finger isn’t nearly as bad as he’s made out to be….?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been saying that
for 2 years… but yeah… so much for reality.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
for me, nail in coffin was a 6-5 OT loss to chicago
finger was on the ice for i think 5 goals. and 2 or 3 where he ends up with his back to the scorer at the moment of shame.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
So one game
and a player is garbage to you?
I guess Komisarek’s -3 night in a 5-4 OT loss to Montreal wasn’t such a big deal?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Luke Schenn
had two separate nights where he was -3 in one game… but he also had nights where he was +3 and +4… I just think judging any hockey player on one regular season game is a bit silly. It’s an 82 game season for a reason.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
His worst game ever!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
McCabe-like, it was.
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
Here’s every defenseman since the lockout to get -5 or worse in a game:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=pzv3Q
And lo! I do see McCabe: April Fools!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
that seals it
Duncan Keith sucks and is overpaid
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
We seem to accumulate players who fit that description, maybe he’d fit here.
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
and it would help the Hawks with their cap issues
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
just noticed Suter and Weber are also on the list. Nashville can’t hope to survive as a franchise if they’re carrying those two boat anchors on their team.
In the interest of keeping hockey allive in Tennessee, Burke should reach out to the Preds and offer them a Kaberle and Finger for Weber and Suter, straight up.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Throw in XLB’s cell number as a sweetener?
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
nah
don’t want to overpay
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
McCabe had one of those against Philly in the playoffs (remember those), IIRC.
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
play-offs?
huh?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Extending it out to the last decade, and both Nick Boynton and Brent Sopel (Who I believe were the D on the ice for Chicago for the stanley cup winning goal this year) had 2 -5 games.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I noticed a few things:
1. Only one player has gone minus 6.
2. I changed it to everyone with a -4 or worse and one player in that list played on the winning team: Milan Jurcina was a -4 and his team WON.
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* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
was it that game against the Leafs when Toskala let in 4 or 5 before Gustavsson got the nod, and the Leafs went on to tie it up, before Gustavsson let in one (or two…don’t recall) and got tagged with the loss?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
No it was against Florida.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Since 1987 there have been 3 instances where 2 players have gotten a -4 in the same game and won. Ridiculous.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
ya
but he sucks
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
like i said, just the nail in the coffin
ive never seen anything great out of finger. ive seen a lot of mediocre games, and a few stinkers.
not something to rally behind for a 30 year old, far depth/healthy scratch, cap anchor like him.
komi has shown hints of maybe playing close to his value. he can at least play big minutes against top lines.
and schenn has all kinds of upside that i know youre not serious when you bring him up vs finger.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh and for the record
he was never worse than 3 in a single game. Admittedly that happened on 4 occasions last year, which largely explains the brutal +/ rating of -11 in only 39 games… but I don’t know that it’s really his fault entirely.
His goalies in those games were Joey MacDonald, Vesa Toskala (who was pulled against Calgary), Vesa Toskala (who was pulled against Boston to put in Joey MacDonald), and yes Vesa freaking Toskala against Phoenix.
So in summary, he was -12 in 4 games where MacDonald and Toskala got lit up… Toskala was pulled in 2 of those games. I repeat that Finger is not that horrible.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Strikethrough
not sure how that happened.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
start & end a string of text with ‘-’ (the minus 3 and the +/- at the end)
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Whenever you’re writing about +/-, check the preview. “worse than -3” formatted with " +/- rating"
by Bower Power on Jul 27, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
It was the dash in front of “minus three” and at the end of “plus/minus.”
That gets interpreted as strikethrough.
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
got it...
thanks.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
in columbus
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Agreed. Finger isn’t a bad NHL defenseman. He’s just an overpaid NHL defenseman which in the salary cap era makes him a bad defenseman.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
is Chara at $7M a bad defenseman?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope. In fact I wouldn’t say that he’s overpaid considering his peers.
Would you pay $7M for a Top 5 defenseman in the world?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
He's not as badly overpaid
as Komisarek is… by a wide margin.
People just know Komi was named to the US nats and that he’s big and “truculent” despite the fact that Finger has more blocked shots and hits per game than Komisarek last year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
More agreement
I agree with you that most Leafs fans (and NHL fans in general) probably underrate Finger and overrate Komi. That probably has something to do with Komi’s truculence.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
and handsomeness
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying he’s the Jessica Alba of hockey players?
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh wow.
Bra-vo.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
i didnt say he was a -5.
anyone can have a bad game. it just matters how you look out there when its going on.
despite mccabes unluck, the level of competance was there. mostly he shouldnt have been a left handed RD.
i didnt base my opinion on his signed salary, nor a gathering of his box scores.
i’ve watched him play. i dont like how he plays. i dont think he knows enough of what hes doing out there, and if he does, than he’s not good enough for the nhl game.
junking him for much of the end of the season suggests that those who should know him best (ie wilson et al) share some of my opinion.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought consensus was they were (futilely) showcasing XLB.
I don’t think there’s any doubt Phaneuf, Beauch, Gunnar, Kaberle and Schenn are better than Finger. Tough to get ice time.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
finger was scratched 11 times after the trade deadline
exelby is a good analogue for me. i also dont like how he plays and he doesnt seem to make the right decision much of the time.
these are players i dont want on my team. especially during the past year of questionable goaltending and a rookie netminder in development to boot.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I just don’t see them as very similar players at all. Finger was ruined last year; the year before he was a perfectly serviceable (but overpaid) #4/5 guy.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t he play in our top 4 the year before?
Kaberle-Kubina
Finger-Schenn?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont think so...
i think that was the year white emerged from the pressbox all shiny & new.
and “roles” on the leafs dont mean much to anyone.
toskala as starting goalie? not in my nhl.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
i didnt mean an analogue in terms of play style
i meant in terms of failings on the back end.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Exelby
is never going to get over 25 points in a season. Finger easily could if he was given top 6 minutes regularly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
25pts if we give him top six minutes on defense huh?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
End result Steve,
Its just a difference of opinion. I don’t like how Finger plays and I don’t think he’s good enough for our team.
Stats will not sway me in this regard. I will have to see marked play improvement from him to change my opinion.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying I like Finger particularly
in fact I don’t think he has any future on the Leafs… I just think it’s sad that he’s lumped in with Exelby and behind the likes of Komisarek in Leafs fans eyes, when to be honest, he’s far superior to the former, and likely a tad superior to the latter, and yet he gets no respect.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel bad for the poor guy. Not his fault JFJ threw all that money at him. He’s a serviceable NHL D-man… just not at $3.5M per
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
Didn’t Fletcher sign him?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
unfortunatley it is closely related to his cap hit
if he was a 1.0-1.8m #8 or #9 defenceman, who didnt play all that great but contributed odd points and “energy” (hits/blocks), then that would be fine with me (i.e. jay mckee’s role last season w/ pitt). that is, i would like him well enough to ignore him were he paid according to his proper level.
but he is a cap anchor that may have prevented who knows what in terms of signings or trades.
he will put pressure on wilson to play him here n there so Burke can maybe showcase him a little and gather some trade interest.
and given that he’s not good enough, i don’t want him on the ice for anything close to 17 minutes a game.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
me too
me too…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
This I agree with. He’s decent (though overpaid) and just got yanked around last year.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Who do you guys think Burke IS targetting?
All we really hear about is who he ISNT going after. Who are his targets?
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
Only Burke knows
and he’s a sneaky motherfucker.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Why so many questions?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
nobody
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
If he can get a young top 6 forward in exchange for Kaberle he’ll do that.
Beyond that, there’s nothing really out there.
Although if Boston walks away from Wheeler’s arbitration, I’d take a flyer on him for a year.
That may actually be the best-case scenario; keep Kaberle, roll the dice on Wheeler, Wheeler scores 20, trade Kaberle for futures at the deadline
Resident Capologist
Agreed. How much would Wheeler have to cost the Bs for them to walk away though?
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
league minimum.
I kid i kid.
However, Bruins have like 13k in cap space, so….
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Should check out
They have a Wheeler arb guessing thread.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Remember me?
My name is Dmitri Khristich.
I was also a talented scoring-type guy who the Bruins walked away from after arbitration.
Be very afraid….
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
Different circumstances tho no?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Softish scoring guy who the Bruins weren’t interested in paying big money to. They were correct.
To make room for him, the Leafs dumped a pint-sized kid named Steve Sullivan.
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
I mean, didn’t they drop Khristich because of the result of the arbitration, where as Wheeler will most likely be dropped due to the fact the B’s have little to no space
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Perhaps. Are the Bruins that set on Wheeler? I was of the opinion that he was gone if he got too much anwyay.
Leaf, the universe and everything. Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice vest.
to be fair, Kristich seemed to be injured almost his entire tenure with the Leafs.
that said, let’s never speak of him again
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
hmmm?
what?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
oh hai dmitri
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 27, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It appears the Frolov to NYR signing is final. Still no $$$ though.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:06 PM EDT reply actions
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
ah
@Jay_Gold_ CONFIRMED: New York Rangers – (LW/RW) Alexander Frolov – 1 year – $3M. #NHL #NYR
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow early reports were right
that’s a good deal, 1 year only – Afinigenov-esque.
I would have wanted him for $4M on the Leafs.
Not everyone would agree.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Based only on the fact that it’s Glen Sather, the Rangers must have overpaid.
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Afinogenov-esque???
Didn’t Afinogenov only make $800,000 this year?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but really for a former 35 goal scorer, $3M is pretty cheap. On the first line with Gaborik he’ll put up somewhere around a 20G, 35A season. And at $3M that’s pretty damned good.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
sure
but it’s not Afinogenov-esque. He’s still being paid relatively well.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not in $ terms
I meant in the sense he took less than he got paid last year for a 1-year deal in order to improve his #s and get a better payday next year.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
sure, I guess. I just think if he was really serious about improving his stats, he would’ve taken $800,000 and gone to Pittsburgh to play with Crobsy or Malkin.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
they didn’t want him.
Or maybe he really does fit the “Russians are greedy” mentality and still wanted $3M from the Pens.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Also compare Frolov to Armstrong. Both at $3M. Who’s a better deal?
fuck Brian Burke’s moral code
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
oh eff off
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
Frolov is lazy. He could get $1M per and he still wouldn’t last in TO.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I still would've taken him.
Remember all that talent we don’t have still?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
sure
remember how Burke’s building a team and not just signing everyone who looks good on paper?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Brett Lebda’s ears are burning.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jul 27, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Back to the conflicting arguments, of sheltering our prospects vs. letting the kids play.
1-year of Frolov at 3M so a prospect can develop in the minors (i.e. Kadri, yes I know he’s a C and Frolov is a W, but between Grabbo and Kadri Bozak, one of them is either playing 3rd line C or minors).
Yes Burke is building a team, but I think – and this is a big if – Frolov had been willing to sign here for the same deal as NYR, Burke should have jumped on that.
I doubt he would have though, as I have to assume Frolov wanted top line minutes with a guy like Gaborik.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
As opposed to top line minutes with a guy like Kessel?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
As opposed to top line minutes with a guy like Kessel?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Gaborik
is better than Kessel.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Gaborik is better than most in the NHL, that’s never been the problem.
The problem has always been he has the hips of an 80-year-old grandma who just fell down a flight of stairs.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jul 27, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He has had
two seasons of less than 50 games in his career. The rest are 65 or more. 7 out of 9 seasons he’s played 65+ games.
Kessel has played 70 games three out of his 4 seasons. Higher average, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say he’s almost as injury prone.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
6
seasons with 30 goals or better, two of them with over 40.
He’s broken the 80 point plateau twice.
He’s been better than a point per game player for 5 years consecutively.
He’s superior to Kessel.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm. another good point. Very on the fence here. Frolov at 3mill, one season?
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
why do we even have to compare them at all?
And what does Burke’s “moral code” have to do with anything???
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
doesn’t your moral code say Antropov is overpaid at $4M per?
Antro put up 16 more points than Frolov, on a far weaker team, with less ATOI than Frolov.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I went over Antropov in depth
last night… stupid contract valuation.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Moral code has nothing to do with it.
As Steve has pointed out Frolov suffered from lesser teammates. Antro played with Max and Kovy.
I like Antro better than Frolov no doubt. I think Antropov is probably about right at $4MM, I just don’t see him fitting our team. I think $3MM is also about right for Frolov, and I think it confirms my belief that $3MM is way too much for Armstrong. There can’t be much doubt Frolov is a better player than Armstrong. And if you want to focus on “gritty” 3rd line guys I’m betting Torres can be had for 2 yrs, under $2MM right now.
Frankly I’m not too broken up over “losing” Frolov—I don’t think he’s a terribly good fit either. I’d rather audition Caputi, Kadri, Mueller on the second line.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, but we’re ragging on Burke’s moral code, so it has everything to do with it.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really think "moral"
has much to do with it … it’s his concepts around sustainable business and what’s good for the NHL vis a vis the signings made by other GMs…
ironically he inflates the market as much as anyone else does, and he seems dead set on signing sub-premiere players to expensive deals out of an effort to overpay for physicality. It’s a strange way of doing things to be sure.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
ironically he inflates the market as much as anyone else does, and he seems dead set on signing sub-premiere players to expensive deals out of an effort to overpay for physicality. It’s a strange way of doing things to be sure.
Well said.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Skinnyfish brought it up, I thought in jest.
I should have said “moral code has nothing to do with it for me”. Moral code, as I understand it, is only relevant to Kovy… which we’re not debating now. Right?
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably
I think this is our cue to move on from Frolov to the next UFA we think the Leafs could use as a scoring boost… Wheeler when the B’s walk?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
weaker team
but in a far more prominent role as a result.
Antropov was playing top line minutes at both ES and on the PP.
Frolov was 3rd LW on the team after Ryan Smyth and Dustin Brown last year. He wasn’t playing top line minutes like Antropov.
I actually would be fine with both of them on the Leafs at the exact dollars they are now signed for.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Just venting over yet another missed opportunity. Seeing player after player start to go by when the Leafs have the need and ability to sign them; and instead sign redundancy (Lebda, Armstrong, Mueller) it just doesn’t make sense.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Lebda is the only player there I’d say is redundant.
Being frustrated is totally fine, I’d’ve really liked to see Frolov on the Leafs this year.
Saying “fuck Brian Burke’s moral code” is rediculous. Signing or not signing Frolov has little to nothing to with his moral code. The issue here is his team building philosophy, which is something noone ever talks about in favour of stats and hyperbole.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we discuss team building philosophy plenty. I (and others) disagree with certain aspects of Burke’s approach. I guess it’s all moot because he isn’t changing, but how else will we fill the lunch hour.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually
took a break from this site on my lunch hour… I’m filling my work day with it at the moment… this is babysitting for all intents and purposes.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t think it gets discussed at all.
Compiling stats isn’t discussing team building. If that was all that was required to build a team, then why aren’t mathematicians running NHL teams?
The Leafs require scoring, PK, etc. yes. But Burke’s definitely building a specific way – with a young core who will grow together, and personality types – things we can’t put a definite value to – that he thinks will work. It’s harder to discuss than “So and so has a GVT of whatever and is therefore a better player than so and so.”
Now, I’m wary of going with a young core of forwards without adding first rounders to them every year (which has been touched upon, this is true). But when criticizing a signing – or a player we missed – why is it always about money, and not about team building?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure it does. For example, I’ve said ad nauseam I think Burke should:
- be willing to overpay for elite talent
- economize on bottom 6/3rd pair
- not overpay goalies
- get “depth” by adding at the top, not the bottom
- be willing to promote youth.
Those are all “team building” issues, not just quoting GVT.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes but where is the analysis of what he is actually doing?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure if serious…
[insert Joker picture]
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So far we've got
overpaying physical D men, stocking up on tough guy wingers and undersized skill players, and signing/trading for every cheap potential power forward he can find.
He seems to be going for large butterfly goalies, and he brought in Allaire and Giguere to help develop them.
He also seems to like large D men who can hit, but not necessarily worried over whether or not they can score… but he likes Kaberle so he can stick around.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He also seems to think
building through the draft works fine if you’re drafting NCAA or CHL players who will develop in the AHL, but he likes to poach late bloomers from Europe, and the occasional skilled kid with size who he’ll leave overseas for a few years.
He obviously thinks leaving players to develop over time is a good thing, and signing them to ELC’s as late as possible helps keep his overall costs down… which is good because he’s overpaying on a few contracts… but luckily he doesn’t believe in NMC’s so he can trade guys if they become a problem.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Komisarek has an “NMC/modified NTC”
Kessel has an NTC in 2013-14.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He gives them for specific reasons, such as in Giguere’s case.
Not sure why Komisarek has anything though.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Safe to say since Burke is doing the opposite of 3 of my 5 guiding principles, you can assume I disagree with a lot of what he is actually doing. As we have debated ad nauseam.
That said, on balance I still think he is an above average GM.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If I had to choose between overpaying to sign a top 6 winger or overpaying for a goalie I’d choose the winger everyday and twice on Sunday.
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
The fact that
Colby Armstrong is good in the locker room has been mentioned in discussions around his value… I just don’t know that that should earn him an extra $500 K a year.
Phaneuf’s locker room and leadership abilities are discussed regularly… again… it’s hard to quantify much of that right now.
Komisarek’s toughness is mentioned as a reason why Burke signed him, but the guy seems to play through pain to the point of causing himself serious injury, so in the end that’s a negative not a positive.
Overall I think these things are touched upon, but they’re difficult to debate because we don’t know player X personally, and haven’t played on a team with them per se.
If people have negative personal opinions on players, which does happen from time to time, it again gets mentioned but it’s hardly something people can really sway eachother on.
The numbers/stats thing is relevant, because if you’re looking for physical play there are measures for that, and frankly that stuff is probably more relevant to deciding who is a good player and who is a bad player than saying a guy makes the players around him feel “comfortable” or “nice”.
In the end, it’s all up for discussion, but some people are more likely to lean to the stats than others… I’m in the former group, so I don’t feel bad focusing on that stuff.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Komisarek’s toughness is mentioned as a reason why Burke signed him, but the guy seems to play through pain to the point of causing himself serious injury, so in the end that’s a negative not a positive.
This is an interesting issue mostly because I think players who sit out until healthy have a worse reputation than guys who play hurt but hurt their team in the long run.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Don’t get me wrong, I think stats etc. have their place and I refer to Behind the Net, Capgeek etc. when doing analysis.
But there’s more to it than that, and while we may never know about character, intangibles, these things seem swept under the run in favour of the numbers. All the time.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
As a fan
I think I’d rather have my team win for a few years and be full of dickheads rather than experience a bunch of nice guys that can’t win anything…
obviously being somewhere in between would be nice, and having a team full of great guys would be fine if they won… but I don’t think the personality thing matters much if the coach does a good job of controlling the room.
In fact… management’s job is entirely about controlling egos and getting people all on the same page. I do think Burke and Wilson are working hard at that, but it’s very difficult to quantify clearly.
I think it’s interesting how many players they have been going after that they have a history with through USA Hockey or the NCAA or AHL ranks. They’ve also brought in coaches and players that found success together… and then they’ve tried to bring in top level talent they think they’d do well with.
It is an interesting thing to look at.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think it’s very interesting too.
They’re bringing in players from a similar school of thought, as it were. Does it translate to success on the ice? That remains to be seen… last season seems to indicate that if even one element is wrong (goaltending) none of that other stuff matters. But does that mean that the whole philosophy is wrong, and that we should start signing players to fill the gaps, or stay the course and allow players to grow into the gaps?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think bringing in guys based on character and intangibles is a fool’s errand because of how context specific they are. Phaneuf and Kessel being cases in point. Derided as cancers on their old teams, loved here. Could say the same for Doug Gilmour even.
With internal guys you can figure out more about character and fit.
Basically, when I hear a guy we overpaid to sign is a good “character” guy I take it as a bad sign.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
But I’m talking about specific qualities that are common in players that Burke has brought in.
I don’t think we’ve ever really figured out what he’s doing, to be honest. I think people criticize it at least in part because we dont’ understand it. I’d like to put more effort into understanding it.
For instance, my first impression is that Bryan McCabe is exactly the kind of player that Burke likes. Would Burke have traded him?
If we all deride the Muskoka 5 so much, why do we also hate the guys Burke’s bringing in to change the character of the Leafs?
It baffles me.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear. I guess we debate what is discernable. What Burke thinks of the personalities of the guys he brings in is not discernable.
I personally don’t deride the Muskoka 5. As I’ve said before, what they share is a history of playoff success, and a dedication to team, city and teammates.
The Muskoka 5 thing was a bullshit meme invented by Damien Cox.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that’s true. But I think, in general, most people are of the opinion that the old, expensive veterans needed to be moved out so that the Leafs could get a youth movement going.
But I could be wrong on t hat.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree they needed to go, I just don’t accept the Cox-invented myth that they had character problems. Sundin, Tucker, Kaberle and McCabe were proven playoff warriors in TO (and Kubina won a freaking Cup). Deriding their character is to me indefensible (which I know you obviously aren’t doing—speaking of Cox and those who drank his Koolaid).
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
true true
I will refrain from using the term “Muskoka 5” from now on, these are good points.
I guess what it is is that I see how we needed to with a youth movement and get this high paid veterans out of the way to do that, and now people are calling for high paid veterans to be signed. Which I don’t think we’re ready for. I can see how someone like Armstrong makes sense because he can be added to the core (although I think he is overpaid as well). But guys like Kovalchuk, Frolov, I don’t see how they fit quite yet. UFA’s of their quality, I think, are a better fit on a team that knows exactly what they have and exactly what they need to compete. I feel like the Leafs aren’t there yet.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing I disagree with there is Kovy (which I admit is moot) and a slight nuance on Armstrong. But pretty much yeah, on the same page.
I can see the argument for Frolov but I’m happy running the kids out there.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t accept the Cox-invented myth that they had character problems.
This would make for an interesting discussion with Mirtle.
I don’t know if it’s some sort of myth as it is a pseudo-code of sports writers that what happens in the room, stays in the room.
I have heard all sorts of allegations about NHL players from reporters, but none of them are ever willing to put them on the record.
Case in point: ask anyone in hockey about Tom Barasso and then do a google search to see what turns up in the print coverage.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I dunno
that time he swore on Hockey Night in Canada during an interview would definitely count as evidence against him.
He cares a lot about his kids though (does that matter?)
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Here we go
He didn’t like the media much.
“I really couldn’t give a s—t what you people have to say,” Barrasso told CBC’s Scott Oake, after being asked if he had heard any of the criticism of his play during Ottawa’s two losses to open the series in Toronto.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
It was mutual.
A friend of mine worked with Roy MacGregor and the Sens one season when Barasso was there. The stories about Barasso’s attitude were out of this world, but very little, if any of it, seemed to hit the press.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I guess
guys develop an ego if they win the Vezina trophy at the age of 18, and two stanley cups before the age of 27.
But yeah… he’s kind of a dick.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
His nickname is “Barasshole”
Point remains: the media don’t want to /feel they can’t talk about that side of the game.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
by mf37 on Jul 27, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
platform of populism:
goodbye old broken.
hello new hotness.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke’s philosphy on team building definitely has more to do with attitude, character and guys who “work hard in practice.”
His managerial style seems to be that of someone who judges character to make the final roster decision. He looks beyond the numbers, and I figure he leaves the statistical analysis to his assistants.
He gets paid to be the ultimate judge of character. Will it work?
I know good team chemistry/mentality can sometimes trump skill. Can it win a cup?
He seems to think it worked in Anaheim.
I dunno, we’ll see how this year shakes out.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope Lebda wasn’t just a depth signing and it actually leads to a Kabby trade and/or Finger waiving.
Preferably both.
Yes yes I know he won’t waive Finger unless he has to.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes but
we can only discuss signing predominantly north american pick-axe and shovel types who “grind out” wins for so long before we worry that we’re somehow waiting on the 2nd coming of George Armstrong’s hockey team in an era when Patrick Kane is lighting the lamp with Jonathan Toews to win the cup, or Crosby and Malkin get things done with 100+ point seasons.
I’m just worrying over time that Burke hasn’t found his 85+ point physical forwards yet for this club, and we’re going to have to sit through the process while he looks for them on the cheap.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody on this team who even has the potential to score 100 points? Kessel’s hella talented but even if he were to score 50 goals in a season I don’t see him cracking the 100-point mark. Kadri maybe but until he actually puts in a full NHL season the jury’s out. Am I missing anybody else?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jul 27, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
There aren't
many in the NHL who could crack 100 points.
I think having a guy who could crack 75 would be a starting point… and I think Kessel and Kadri could do that eventually… possibly Bozak also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
its only happened 23 times since the lockout, which is between 4 & 5 per season.
its also only been done by 14 different players, playing for 10 different teams.
average age? 25 yrs old. median age? 24 years old.
quite the rarity, but if someone’s going to do it they are probably young and it might come out of the blue.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you on the moral code but saying that a guy does or doesn’t fit Burke’s team building philosophy is like discussing intangibles: we don’t know, we’ll never know.
Frolov will score 20 goals and might hit 35 given the right opportunity. He would have helped the Leafs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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sure
I know of another team that could use a LW goal scorer, who was interested in Kovalchuk.
I wonder why LA didn’t sign Frolov for one year at $3 mill.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
LA had him on their third line behind Dustin Brown and Ryan Smyth. Seems sort of obvious that they couldn’t use a left winger.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Really?
Then why were they going after Kovalchuk?
Talent wise, they could use Frolov. He was played on the 3rd line – RW, which is his off wing – for another reason.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Kovalchuk is a lot better than Frolov. He changes things.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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lombo & co had the forward depth
to bump frolov off the top lines, and they didnt think the other choices would be as responsible defensively on the 3rd line (or they just didnt want brown on the 3rd line).
there was a lot of positive talk about frolov’s 2-way play during the season from the team.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If you believe Frolov’s agent , when LA’s coach called out Frolov for being lazy, demoted him to the third line and eventually healthy scratched him, that spelled the end of Frolov in LA and killed Frolov’s market value in his UFA year
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 27, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, i thouhgt lombardi had said as much during various interviews during the year
maybe there were two phases of frolov’s season, and the end didnt turn out so hot.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Dustin Brown plays RW
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Not what I read this morning; said that Frolov had been bumped down LA’s depth chart by Smyth and Brown.
I don’t watch the Kings enough to know either way so maybe I got bad info.
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LA Kings web site says he plays RW, and he played most of the year with Smyth on LW and Kopitar
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
NHL.com has him as a left wing:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470606#&navid=nhl-keymatch
Parsing the line data it looks like Brown played all over the place:
He only played 16% of his EV shifts with Smyth and Kopitar.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Weird
Brown played more shifts with Frolov than he did with Kopitar and Smyth.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s a line blender and a half.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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25.88%
with Frolov + some random C (Handzus or Stoll usually), vs 24.91% with Smyth + usually Kopitar, but sometimes Purcell.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe it’s more fair to say Brown was used more as a RW than left.
he was RW in the playoffs almost exclusively. According to this site, he spent almost 50% of all his shifts with Frolov, so somebody was on their off wing…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the lesson learned is that we’re both wrong and the Kings blend their lines more than the Leafs.
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And similar applies to Zherdev and Kovy. These types of guys are not taking pay cuts to come to Toronto (yet).
Maybe in 1 – 3 years, when some our young guys have developed into top flight players and we are actually competitive. Burke’s avoidance of things like “pump&dump” may even give us a reputation for square dealing among the players, further making people want to come here.
This is, of course, an optimistic projection, but not impossible. And this will all be happening as the Giggy, Armstrong, Lebda & Finger contracts come off the books, so Burke might have just such a thing in mind.
I don’t think players would see a pump and dump as a bad move. Take Frolov: he had an off year so he signs cheap somewhere.
If that somewhere is in Toronto he’s going to get solid top line minutes to pad his stats and look good knowing that he’s going to a playoff team at the deadline.
That’s a great chance to prove yourself without worrying about signing a long deal with someone or getting stuck with a bad team.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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First off I don’t think that’s relevant to your point that pump and dump deals are something a player would dislike.
Second there’s no guarantee the Rangers or Philly make the playoffs. A player could sign with a team knowing he’ll be traded to a team in playoff contention come March when things are a little more solid without taking that pay cut.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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The weird thing is, I can’t think of any players in the past year or two that have done this pump and dump thing.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
No idea why Atlanta didn’t trade Afinogenov.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Their
ownership was too busy worrying about where to trade Kovalchuk to bother worrying about Afinogenov… but yeah he would have been another good candidate for a move.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Doug Weight got hurt right before the trade deadline for the Islanders.
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hahah
oh Doug Weight.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like Wheeler's arbitration hearing was really.... boring
Blake Wheeler’s arbitration case has concluded. Both sides will now wait for the arbitrator to issue a decision within the 48-hour window.
“I think it was handled very professionally by both sides,” said Matt Keator, Wheeler’s agent. “Our interpretation of the marketplace is different from theirs, hence the disagreement. I think both sides handled it well, keeping it professionally. They pointed out Blake’s shortcomings. We pointed out Blake’s strengths. But Blake already knew his shortcomings. He knows what he needs to work on. There were no hurt feelings in what was said. It was not contentious at all.”
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Sounds like Wheeler's arbitration hearing was really.... boring
Blake Wheeler’s arbitration case has concluded. Both sides will now wait for the arbitrator to issue a decision within the 48-hour window.
“I think it was handled very professionally by both sides,” said Matt Keator, Wheeler’s agent. “Our interpretation of the marketplace is different from theirs, hence the disagreement. I think both sides handled it well, keeping it professionally. They pointed out Blake’s shortcomings. We pointed out Blake’s strengths. But Blake already knew his shortcomings. He knows what he needs to work on. There were no hurt feelings in what was said. It was not contentious at all.”
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Honestly with Cam fucking Neely as the president of the club you’d expect more chair throwing.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If it wasn't contentious
then it makes me think the whole thing stems from the fact that the team has zero cap space.
They obviously know what he’s worth… they just can’t afford him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Phil Kessel part 2.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
2 1sts and a 2nd?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
/crosses fingers
Let him go UFA
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Then sign him and trade him to Phoenix for a laugh.
"My country is the world, my religion to do good" - Thomas Paine
Now that
would be funny.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s fine, if the Bruins can’t afford him there will be an article in the Boston Globe about what a dickhead Wheeler is tomorrow.
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Why does that newspaper hate the Bruins so much.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No, they love the Bruins but have a habit of instantly hating people who leave.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Well, they’re all jerks for leaving.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
When really
they should hate Peter Chiarelli for somehow making it that they can’t retain any of their players (Tim Thomas REALLY needs $6 mill a year?)
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
isn’t it $5 mill?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
$5M, but yeah I think he did deserve it after his Vezina year where he led them to a 1st place finish in the East. In hindsight it looks like a bad deal only because of how Rask stepped up his game and won the starters role from him.
But Thomas is a Top 10, if not higher, goalie in the NHL. Add in to that his impending UFA status at the time of the contract and the Vezina, and well yeah $5M.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
There could be worse things
than having Tim Thomas as your backup.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The term is the stupid thing about that deal.
He was what, 33? 34? And you signed him to a 5-year deal? With a 21 year old beating down the door for the starting job?
Resident Capologist
He was a good prospect
but not exactly beating down the door until this year.
Rask straight up stole the starting job from Thomas.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Allow me to rephrase.
Rask was 21 and the Bruins consider him a future starter. He proved them right this year. So basically unless Boston thought that he was going to wait until his mid 20s to be an everyday starter handing Thomas a 5 year contract on the heels of a career season was silly.
Resident Capologist
I have to assume they didn’t want to give a 5-year deal, but for some reason they felt they had to to keep him.
I think once Thomas won the Vezina he had tons of leverage.
Meh just spitballing, no idea what the thought process was.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Goalies develop later than other prospects.
While Thomas has an NTC you’d think he’d be willing to waive rather than ride the pine. On the other hand what if Rask is the next Mason or Raycroft and never lives up to his first season?
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4 years at $5M signed when he was 35.
Rask played in a grand total of 5 NHL games before Thomas got his contract.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yeah,its pretty understandable
1) tim thomas has never done anything in the nhl, so in a vezina UFA year, you have to know his agent will want term & dollars. $20m to ride until you’re 38/39 is pretty good for your only payday.
2) 4 years should have been perfect.
Y1 & Y2 has rask developing in the minors. in Y3 he challenges or steals the job, at which point you have a valuable asset still available to trade (back end of Y3), or a UFa free agent for a playoff team (Y4).
the fact that rask pushed up the timetable isnt necessarily a bad thing if you like having a top goalie, its just that its a year or two too early with all the contracts boston had to deal with this summer (savard, wheeler, etc)
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
the fact that rask pushed up the timetable isnt necessarily a bad thing if you like having a top goalie
But who wants that?
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think, overall, the only thing I’d dispute was giving Thomas a NMC.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Thomas is still very important in sheltering Rask. Rask played ONE back to back set all year, and – though he definitely performed – was really challenged his hardest during the playoffs. They’re the perfect description of a 1a/1b tandem, and I expect to see something similar out of Giggy/Gus this year.
And for a team that can’t score goals, your alternate in a 1a/1b scenario really can’t be a slacker. Boston’s is a former Vezina winner. Yes, they paid a UFA price for him, yes, he can’t be moved when eventually Rask can take the full workload, but the difference between have Thomas for 45 starts and having, say, Biron or Raycroft for 45 starts, probably would’ve either A meant rushing Rask to 55+ starts or B, missing the playoffs (at the very least, moving more into to that MTL-PHI-NYR bubble from last year).
At this point, it makes more sense to say “Boston’s goaltending costs them 5.8 mil” than it does to say “Thomas costs Boston 5 mil.” It’s not an issue until Rask is getting a serious share of the starts, or until you’re talking about re-signing him. (And really, Rask is young enough that his next contract shouldn’t be over ~2-2.5M, no matter his stats.)
he finished his ELC last season
he’s on for 1.25m for this year & next. after that, he will probably be at $4m or more… which is a problem because that will be with thomas’ last year at $5m
but im sure thomas can be traded by then.
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Pay for 3 million, get the 4th and 5th million in cap hit ABSOLUTELY FREE!
Also he’s still a good goalie.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree about Thomas in the top 10.
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They don’t hate the Bruins (or Sox) at all. The Globe is basically an extension of the two teams’ PR offices. “Manny being Manny!” is fun when he’s a Red Sock, but “MANNY BEING MANNY?!?” is derogatory when he’s a week from being traded.
And Kessel is lazy and doesn’t work hard enough to come back from rehab and score 30 goals. And Savard is a dick, clearly.
Nobody ever liked Johnny Damon neither.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
With Frolov signing
Does that mean Sather really has the balls to waive Wade Redden?
They have 22 signed, 1.4M in cap space remaining, however they have yet to sign RFA Marc Staal.
Needless to say Staal will command a higher cap hit than $1.4M.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
I don’t think he does as they only have 6 defensemen under contract. More than likely, they’ll try to move a guy like Prospal to open up cap space.
I don’t see Staal getting more than $3.5M as an RFA.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Someone (I can’t remember who) said that NYR would buy-out Redden before they waived him.
I’d love to see that.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
$1.9M buyout caphit for the first two years
$3.4M for the next two
$1.9M for the four following
That’s not that crazy of an idea really. Especially with impending RFAs Callahan, Dubinsky, Gilroy, and Anisimov.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
8 years of a cap hit to buy out Wade Redden sounds really crazy to me.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Really though it’s only for the last 4 years at $1.9M per. Other than that they save $4.6M for two years, and then $3.1M for the next two. That’s a lot of scratch.
Also Boogard would be off the books in 4 years and then Redden’s caphit would replace him in the “money spent on someone who can’t play hockey for my team” department.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
this reminds me of the seinfeld where jerry gets his kitchen renovated
and then doesnt like it and has it restored to how it was after all the money spent.
“ahh.. back to normal.”
by Death_By_Leafs on Jul 27, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
So crazy that is just might work!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, they’ve got a huge problem next year. 4 big RFAs and only $6MM in expiring deals.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If they’re going to bury someone, Roszival makes more sense (2 yrs vs. 4).
Don’t they hate him too? Or is he living up to his big bucks?
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they hate him too.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a lot better
than Redden.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything about this Caps/Pens Winter Classic bothers me. Even the logos are stupid looking.
You’re tired of Crosby vs. Ovechkin? THINK OF THE DRAMA
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I’m annoyed that Pittsburgh is in ANOTHER winter classic.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Its ridiculous
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yeah, pretty much. It goes to show you that the fans see the game as being something more than just a money maker, which is how the league views it.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I think ridiculous
is a stretch. Obviously they’re capitalizing on the whole US airtime thing on NBC… and having superstars showcased would be the best thing from the NHL’s perspective… it makes perfect sense.
Hell the NFL always plays the same games on Thanksgiving… is it really that strange?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The NFL plays the same games on Thanksgiving because it’s a long standing tradition that the Cowboys and Lions both play that day. Do you really think the NFL has the Lions playing on that day because it’ll make them the most money?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
The NFL was jawing last year about taking that game away from Detroit because they’re so fucking horrible.
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Yeah I know
I just think having the same team play in the Winter Classic over the course of 3 seasons isn’t really ridiculous in comparison to something like that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Leafer1984 – if you ran the NHL marketing department and had to pick the two teams that would deliver the biggest American TV audience, which two clubs would you go with?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Top five US TV markets by population:
NYC
LA
CHI
PHI
BOS
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NYC is a split market though
because of the Devils/Rangers/Isles thing…
LA might be an interesting choice… Chicago, Philly, and Boston all played in one of the past 2.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah
LA = Kings + Ducks… so again… split market.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
San Jose is #6, Dallas is #7.
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Ok so
San Jose vs. LA or Anaheim… Dallas vs. the other team?
I think hockey TV ratings would be a bigger indicator of who to appeal to, but I suppose they want new fans, not old ones.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
the Rangers are the Rangers. I would have the Rangers vs the Kings at Yankees Stadium. Rangers in their old jerseys. Kings in purple and gold.
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
LAK v. NYR on the deck of the USS Intrepid with the Lakers and Knicks girls as on-ice officials.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
lol
or if Kovalchuk ever signs… Devils vs. Kings.
They could also make it a big deal by doing a double header… LA vs. Anaheim on the pacific side (ice outdoors in southern california???! CRAZY) and Rangers vs. Devils on the East coast… or Rangers vs. Islanders… whichever… if that Tavares kid ever starts really scoring it could get interesting.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like the idea of an alternate coast double-header.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Do NYR-NJ at Giants Stadium and SJ-ANA outdoors in California.
Both games have star power and are a huge spectacle.
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Would attract
more ratings… and it would make it more of an NHL ‘day’ … sort of an american equivalent to Hockey Day in canada.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Washington Capitals vs. the Washington Generals.
New York Rangers vs. the Harlem Globetrotters.
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Especially when
Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, and Boston were in the last two…
You’ve got to pick 2 other cities!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I get mf, I really really do.
As a fan, I don’t like it.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
But who would you pick? What teams do you want to see match up in a Winter Classic?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I’m not leafer, but I would’ve put Caps-Rangers this year.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Caps would need to be there, but against a team with a climate than can withstand an outdoor game…
Rangers or Wild. I would go with Rangers
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Also
After last year, I think the NHL learned not to put “trap” teams not in the game. It was awful last year
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I dunno, I had a good time.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It's boring
on the TV… TV audience’s are what matter to them.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Sucks for the TV audience. 
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite part about BOS-PHI was Kerry Fraser missing a penalty on some PHI player that was clearly interfering with Thomas, then when Thomas hits back, PHI scores a goal. I think it was the first goal, it’s pretty hilarious.
It was the first goal, and only one for Philly. The player was Scott Hartnell.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And the “ref” was Kerry Fraser.
Because even with 17 years of extra practice, Kerry Fraser is still a terrible referee.
They needed a ref whose hair wasn’t going to look all ruffled in the wintry air.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Washington at Minnesota at their new Target Field.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d make it LAK versus NYR at the new Giants Stadium and try to rekindle the mid 90s East Coast – West Coast rap feud. That’d really be a head turner.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Lakers vs. Rangers
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Make
Snoop Dog and the Gza the MC’s of the evening… literally.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d have commercials made up with archival footage of Biggie in a Rangers jersey and Tupac in a Kings jersey. Then I’d hire P. Diddy to make a Rangers rap and The Game to make a Kings rap. It’d be bedlam by the time the game was played.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Slightly off topic, but I’m hoping DGB joining the National Post is the first step in an all-out MSM gang war.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
let’s get Todd Gill a spot in the Province.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think DGB will be all about the wrestling drama. He’ll team up with Cox and then when we’re all at our lowest point – pow – he’ll find his inner good guy and chair shot Damo.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
But first he’ll need to turn heel by leg dropping Mirtle at the Winter Classic.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I can so easily picture Mirtle being held by Chris Durno while DGB dummies him.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Chris Durno
was beaten in a fight as a child by one of my female co-workers… true story.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking
between DGB at the Post, and Mirtle at the Globe, that the Star is next … which one of the Barilksophere get’s the MSM promotion?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm
don’t they already?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
DGB and Mirtle are at rival papers…….they share the same profession but i don’t think that makes them colleagues
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
Rival Papers
implies they don’t speak or discuss anything ever… I find that hard to believe (laughable actually).
Last I checked both DC and Steve Simmons sit at TSN during the reporters without glowering at eachother or punching one another in the face. Journalists are all colleagues.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Last I checked both DC and Steve Simmons sit at TSN during the reporters without glowering at eachother or punching one another in the face
That would probably help ratings
Resident Capologist
only if puckurgently did the sound effects to go along witht he fight
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd nominate myself
if I didn’t think that the MSM is a dying venue at this point… everyone I know that’s worked at a major news daily in the past few years has moved on to other work fairly quickly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
now if only
someone would get a slot on the Radio… and then televise it… that would be worth doing!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
also
if you think about the fact that if they work the Leafs beat, they spend more time with eachother than they do their editors or other people for their respective papers.
I don’t think they’re “competing” that’s the job of their editors/publishers.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Stamkos?
Hedman?
They’ll be a bigger draw as they improve.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
but we have the ‘heritage classic’ between mtl and cgy to look forward too!
/rolls eyes
My gut says Toronto is in the ‘heritage classic’ next year
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 27, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Toronto
has no solid outdoor stadium prospects… they want a huge stadium… and opening the rogers centre doesn’t do MLSE any favours…
If they could seat 50K at the BMO field, they would… but they can’t.
Leafs vs. Rangers at Giant’s Stadium would be alright… or vs. the Flyers at eagles stadium
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Architects are working a BMO transformation for the Pan-Am games, not sure what the timeline is, but wouldn’t be surprised if the needs of the heritage classic are folded into their work.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I'm thinking about that stadium, and the space around it
what would max capacity become? I can’t see it approaching much more than 35 K.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s all they had for the games at Wrigley and Fenway.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Yeah but that's ok
because they’re Wrigley and Fenway… expanding BMO field doesn’t quite have the same historical cache behind it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Knowing MLSE it will be more about how many can be crammed into hospitality tents and suites than the cheap seats.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
i didnt mean the game would be in toronto, just that they would be in it.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 27, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but MLSE
would expect a huge cut of the pie from such an event, and I don’t think most other teams would agree to it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
good point, it seems as though MLSE shoots themselves in the foot when it comes to just about everything….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
There are a million holes in this argument but, the Leafs have been trying to claim Hamilton as part of their home market.
If Hamilton does get that big shiny new stadium, it wouldn’t surprise me to see the Leafs apply to play there to help build up their case for territorial rights and a veto on expansion/club movement to the region.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Oh wow that thought never even crossed my mind but it’s diabolically evil and probably 100% correct.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
A pre-season winter classic versus Buffalo. The two teams most opposed to an NHL franchise in Hamilton.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
HEY
how about you give the source of that quote!!!!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How about you post it in the CC so we can talk about it?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
errrrrr in the comments, not the CC
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
OK!
Everything about this Caps/Pens Winter Classic bothers me. Even the logos are stupid looking. – Karina
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Per Drege on Twitter
Ponikarovski agrees to deal with the LA Kings.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Dreger that is. Darren Dreger
http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/19678010907
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
awwwwww
Good for Poni!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
There's
your cheaper, harder working replacement for Alex Frolov… so much for their need on LW.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, pretty much. Guaranteed they called him right after Frolov signed with NYR. It’ll be interesting to see what the terms are. I’m hoping 3 years at $3M for him.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I wonder if they were still negotiating with Frolov.
Still, pretty happy for Poni.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm guessing
he gets around $2.8 or $2.9 mill per year… he isn’t going to get huge minutes but he puts up points at ES and can get them 50-60 a year.
Great signing, and I think they compete next year for the Cup.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on all the reports
I’ve heard about Frolov’s play on the ice… not the most dedicated to solid defensive play…
Ponikarovsky is noted for his solid play in his own zone, and I’ve never heard anyone accuse him of being a lazy player… he does have a bit of a problem with the hooking and holding penatlies from time to time, but I think he works pretty hard at his game.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Though he does have the bad habit of taking offensive zone penalties. I remember several occasions where he’d turn over the puck and immediately take a holding or hooking penalty behind the opposing team’s net.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Yeah
he took more minors penalties than most of the big minute forwards in the NHL… I assume most teams would live with that tendency to take on the other aspects of his game.
I’m glad he’ll get a chance at playoff hockey next year in all likelihood.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t ever recall thinking of Poni as a hard worker. I guess in comparison to Frolov it makes sense.
but no pop
i was still a little surprised at how poorly he played in pitt, he seemed very nervous and couldnt seem to keep up with the pace of the playoffs. I remember one shift late in the ottawa series he fell over on his own like 3 times in one shift and didnt see the ice again for the majority of the game. Next game he was a healthy scratch
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 27, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, I hate when former Leafs I liked sign with teams I don’t…
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
Steve Yzerman was my favourite player growing up… he played for the Red Wings… c’est la vie.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I kinda maybe sorta love the Kings
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Booo.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
same, since Felix played there a few years back. bought a jersey and went to the game here in calgary. third row seats next to the Kings’ bench.
equipment guy flipped us a puck after warmup. that was sweet.
plus i got kelly hrudey’s autograph during After Hours on the jersey.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I own a Potvin jersey and wore it all the time in college (late ’90’s). My roommate was a Kings fan and gave me no end of shit for it (especially after the Cujo signing). Felix signs with the Kings and suddenly the shoe was on the other foot. He promised to buy a Potvin Kings jersey if he carried the Kings to the conference finals….
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I lived in Guelph when D. Brown was there and have been following him since.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
they are crazy fun to watch. i used to hate them, but then I realized it was Kerry Fraser I hated, the Kings could have been any team in that series, but Fraser would have still been Fraser…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
if it was any team besides a team with gretzky on it we would have won
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 27, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Very interested in terms. Wonder if he did better than Frolov.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone know who this Jay Gold guy is on twitter?
He thinks Poni can get 80+ points with the Kings.
I love Poni but don’t really see that…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm
he’s dreaming in technicolour whoever he is…
Ponikarovsky has never produced consistently on the PP, and he’s always done well at evens. He might put up 65-70 points with their surrounding cast, but I think 80+ might be crazy.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, good, I’m not the only one who thinks that.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I like his next tweet
I really believe that.
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Think of it this way
Antropov only posted 67 points this past year in 76 games as the top line centre with Atlanta, playing mainly with Kovalchuk, Afinogenov, Little, Bergfors, Enstrom, Kubina, and Bagosian… not exactly crappy offensive players… and he was superior to Ponikarovsky in terms of points with the same Leafs teams.
Somehow I don’t see Poni putting up such a big improvement in his totals.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Or put it another way
He thinks Ponikarovsky will be winger No. 10 on this list from last year (80+ point wingers) for the first time at the age of 30:
Heatley, Kane, St. Louis, Parise, Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Semin, Ovechkin, and Daniel Sedin…
Yeah there’s NO WAY that’s going to happen… D E L U S I O N A L
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha needless drama
Max Talbot(notes) of the Pittsburgh Penguins tells 105.9 The X that he hates Washington Capitals star Alex Ovechkin(notes), and that meeting him off the ice confirmed what he had heard about him … which is that Ovechkin is “a real douche.”
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Superstar!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm wondering
what the general opinion is of Talbot… for all I know, he’s a “real douche”…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
in the next caps-pens game ovie will try to destroy talbot, hits accidentally own teammate first, but will finally succeed and then gets 10 game suspension while all the pens fans are calling him douche and caps fans trying to argue it was clearly talbot’s fault and/or clean hit…
Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.
One more year!
Did Poni change the way he spells his name? All the tweet updates have it as Ponikarovski instead of Ponikarovsky.
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
The original tweeter
probably misspelled it, and everyone is just retweeting and copying that original mistake.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
From mc79hockey.com
After quoting Burke’s rant about the Kovy deal in the National Post yesterday, and mocking Burke’s analogy to criminal lawyers, Tyler shoots off this gem:
Remember Leaf fans: your franchise exists as an edifice to Brian Burke and his own rules of ethics. You may not win anything, but you’ll have the satisfaction that comes from knowing that your GM didn’t do everything he could to win while collecting his multi million dollar payout.
Perhaps overly harsh but can’t disagree with the underlying point.
this makes me a sad panda
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 27, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok so here's the thing
the Leafs might as well find aging players within 3 years of retirement, offer to pay them 5 or 6 mill for those 3 years, and then tack on 10-15 years at the league minimum… then we can go right back to doing what we did before the lockout!
YAY US!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
ideally these players
would be 34 years of age.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm… that’s not at all what Tyler was saying.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Leafs did that...
…the NHL is on them like…well, you know what. They get fined multimillions which get charged to the cap anyway, and end up paying the picks they did for Kessel again without getting another Kessel.
The only reason the Devils aren’t getting the book thrown at them is because they’re the Devils. :S
Truculence...starting 10/1/09
This was something that Chemmy, Tyler and I talked about a fair bit in the podcast. I think Burke is a good GM, but he does have a few challenges as a GM – goaltending and a personal interpretation of the rules being the big two.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I pray that he never channels alfredsson.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I generally enjoy Burke’s blowhard moments but that one in the Post was just brutal.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if Burke has ever appealed a suspension to one of his players. Wouldn’t it be awful if one of them got their suspension reduced or removed on a technicality?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Wow. I have a feeling there’s a “treasure trove” of contradictions here just waiting to be mined from Google News Archive.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
yup
I looked up a ton of quotes one day for jrwendelman on Google News Archive. Then real life hit and he never did the post that anaylizes what Burke says vs. what Burke does.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the PA be appealing any suspension on the player’s behalf?
Resident Capologist
It’s my understanding that teams usually accompany players to disciplinary hearings.
There’s also the court of public opinion, from the Globe & Mail, May 16, 2007:
The fact that Anaheim Ducks general manager Brian Burke was once the National Hockey League’s chief disciplinarian prior to Colin Campbell was lost on exactly no one Wednesday.
For starters, Burke invoked his days as Campbell’s predecessor right off the top of his press conference, disputing the league’s decision to suspend arguably his top player, Chris Pronger, for the critical fourth game of their playoff series against the Detroit Red Wings.
For another, Burke made the sort of impassioned plea in Pronger’s defence that might have swayed one of those malleable southern California juries that fall in love with articulate and passionate defence attorneys.
The only problem was Burke’s main argument in defending Pronger’s hit on the Red Wings’ Tomas Holmstrom — that his arms never went above his shoulders and therefore he was not guilty of head-hunting on the play – couldn’t sway Justice Campbell.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
heh
I thought Burke’s analogy to criminal lawyers was way out of line and probably the stupidest thing he ever said.
I’d be concerned more about his unwillingness to use this loophole in the CBA if we were in a position to win now, like the Hawks were last summer.
Fortunately for us, I think there’ll be a new CBA in place before we’re at the stage where I’d worry about this loophole.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the solution to all this crap about extended contracts is quite simple
and they really should have thought of this when they wrote the damn CBA…
rather than making any contract SIGNED AFTER 35 stick against the cap no matter what, make any YEAR of any contract that extends past age 35 stick against the cap.
No more 17 year deals.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I like the 35+ rule, but it could have been done better. How about 37+ or any deal longer than 6 years?
but no pop
Yeah, the NBA just limits deals to 6 yrs for re-up, 5 yrs for new teams IIRC.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 27, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Just make it ANY deal
that extends past the player’s 35th birthday…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I really like the idea that any player who retires, their cap always stays on the books, BUT, you can deduct what you would have been paying them from that year off of the cap hit (without taking it below zero).
So lets say player A gets paid 5M per year, flat rate, for 10 years, but retires after 5. His cap hit is normally 5M, but for each of those retired years it is 5M (regular hit) minus 5M (salary due), so his cap hit is nothing.
Let’s say player B frontloads his contract at 10M for the first 5 years, and then 1M for each of the last 5. Total cap hit: 5.5M per year. If he retires after 5 years (which would be the old cap-circumventing trick), his cap hit is 5.5M (regular hit) minus 1M (which they would have paid him) = 4.5 M. So the team gets some relief, but not a whole heck of a lot.
So basically this allows teams who sign straight $ per year contracts to remove those contracts entirely upon the player’s retirement, but it punishes teams that attempt to circumvent the cap with front loaded deals (unless the player plays out the entire contract, in which case there is no cap circumvention to worry about).
I didn’t invent this one, but I do like it.
What I find interesting is
I’m betting that discussion happened during negotiations… and the NHLPA probably argued against it… which implies to me that they intentionally would have foreknowledge of this loophole… which to me indicates that some of the guys at the negotiating table had a good solid idea this was going to happen BEFORE the CBA was signed.
If you put the 35+ wording in the CBA then the whole retirement post 35 is something on your mind and this issue is a logical outcome… they KNEW it could happen.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if team governors or the NHLPA would support such a measure.
If I’m a GM, I’d want the flexibility to walk away from and/or bury any mistakes.
If I’m with the NHLPA, I’d worry that making the cap hit stick would reduce the chance of players landing a big contract.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
So they both give something up
and it prevents the crap that’s happening now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re missing the central point – why would any of the parties support such a move?
I very much doubt that the NHLPA is opposed to the so-called “crap” that’s happening now.
I also doubt the majority of GMs would support a move that reduces their cap flexibility.
I doubt the owners would support something that might require them to pay-out contracts post-retirement.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Umm
the GM’s don’t get a vote on it… the owners do.
As for the owners reducing their flexibility… the cap did exactly that and they put that in place, so I fail to see the logic on further restrictions being anathema.
As for paying out contracts post retirement… they don’t do that on 35+ contracts now… it just means the cap hit stays.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
the cap hit remaining on a 35+ deal
is basically a preventative measure to prevent GM’s from signing players post 35 to longer term deals and getting out from under the cap if the player suddenly retires.
That’s exactly what is needed now with these long term deals.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So I guess you don’t think owners turn to their GMs for input on hockey related decisions?
Ask yourself why any of the parties involved would want to reduce cap flexibility? Where’s the upside for the NHLPA? What’s the upside for owners?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Obviously they do
but you’re ignoring my counter-arguments which is nice.
1. They restricted their flexibility once already… you don’t seem to be disputing that fact.
2. The NHLPA let the 35+ clause go into effect, and obviously the ownership would have to give up something to get a clause like this… perhaps a change to the arbitration hearings, or the nature of ELC deals.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you always have to get snippy?
Who benefits from such a change to the CBA?
Where’s the upside for owners?
What’s the upside for the NHLPA?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Yes and no
Because there will be some players forced into early retirement due to injuries or family issues who should have an out. But you can’t really put in such a provision because everyone will just take advantage of it.
I like the 35+ rule and think the solution is to redefine how caphit is calculated and add in a part concerning low salary tails on the end of big contracts.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Yes but then players won't be signing contracts
that extend them past the age of 35… then teams will be wary of signing aging vets to more than 1 year deals….
frankly I don’t see this as a bad thing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I do. I don’t see how eliminating tails also eliminates 35+ contracts.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
It doesn't eliminate the 35+ rule
it just changes it… any contract that takes a player PAST their 35th birthday must stay on the cap… even if the player retires.
It would obviously be grandfathered in.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It also doesn't eliminate tails
but most players don’t try to retire before 35.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
so basically any one 34 or older has to take one year deals. The PA would veto that in a heartbeat
but no pop
no
they don’t have to… see Pronger, Chris.
The teams will offer them if they think it works.
This changes nothing for players over the age of 35 at all… it just affects guys signing long term deals BEFORE they are 35.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
It honestly
wouldn’t change anything about any contracts that don’t have tails past 35… it would only really remove the chance of guys retiring to remove a cap hit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
So if a guy signs a 6 year deal at 32, then retires at 36, the team still has to pay him for two seasons. That seems silly. The 35+ rule was intended to prevent teams from signing 36 year-olds to 7 year contracts
but no pop
No
THE CAP HIT STAYS… they don’t have to pay him.
It’s no different than the current 35+ rule… at all… the only thing changing is that it’s not based on when the contract is signed, it’s based on the years of the contract that are in place.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I know what the 35+ rule
was for… this would be to prevent teams from signing 34 year olds to 9 year contracts… to use your comparison.
I don’t see why this is so hard for you guys to agree to… from what I gather you don’t see much problem with the 35+ rule… this is basically only changing things for younger players…. to prevent them from behaving like 35+ guys that are escaping the clause in the CBA…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
There were
67 players in the NHL last season who were 35 or older. and only 57 of them played 40 or more games.
57 players out of 588 that played in 40 games or more. 10% of the guys in the NHL were over 35… do you REALLY think this change would affect the majority of NHL players contract options?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Just eyeballing the numbers, but I would bet the 35+ crowd makes more money, per player than any other age group in the league. Probably unreasonably so.
but no pop
Ok so change it to
36 or 37+ and you’d have the same effect on removing the tails.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And of those 57 players
only 25 of them produced more than 30 points.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but 20 or so of them are also defensemen.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
17 of them
and of those 17 two of them have already retired.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really. If you are playing in the NHL past 35, you’re probably a damned good play to have lasted that long. Add in the fact that you’ll earn more based on seniority, veteran status, and because you’ll have signed a UFA deal and it makes sense.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I'm not saying every year of the contract
I’m saying only on contracts that extend past 35… it will prevent teams from having deals of such a long term without REALLY thinking about it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
What about those players who sign at 32-34? They’d be screwed by such a rule change.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
How?
they sign a 2 or 1 year deal… then more deals afterwards…
there’s no screwing… the teams just need to be confident they’ll keep playing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Sundin
played out a string of like 3 or 4 single year deals.. that was never “screwing him” over at all.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
A guy at 32-34 is looking for a deal that takes them to retirement around the age of 36-40 depending on how their play declines, how the team is doing, etc..
This would eliminate their ability to do so and is basically a kick in the nuts to veterans of the league.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
so
retire
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Right but knowing that they might retire before their contract is up, a GM isn’t going to give them a long term deal because of the possibility they retire and are still on the books.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
then take away guaranteed contracts. i get the whole job security thing, but if a guy can’t perform, don’t pay him
if he desperately believes he can still contribute, and wants to play, he’ll take what he can get.
i’m saying this with the full knowledge that it will never happen. i wish it would, but i know full well it won’t
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot imagine what the owners would have to give up at the bargaining table to get the NHLPA to agree to non-guaranteed contracts.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
i don’t think they will. not without another lockout, substantially longer than the previous one.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
that said
looking over an article explaining the NFL salary cap, there may be a loophole in the bonus area. Since bonuses are guaranteed, but their hit can be stretched out over the length of the deal for the team. However, if the team cuts the player before his deal is done, whatever is left on the bonus is automatically put against the following season’s cap hit for the team.
so you could see teams willing to parse out larger bonuses, which would be guaranteed income for the player.
nah, still not happening…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Given the number of retirements due to injuries, the idea of a remaining cap hit for retired players seems like a risk few GMs could reasonably mitigate.
The medical/liability issues here are likely way too complex to include in the CBA.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
which is why
so few contracts are handed out to guys over the age of 35… but hey… lets sign guys who are under 35 until they’re 44? Do you see the problem with this logic?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
So restrict contracts that go over 6 or 7 seasons. Not ones for 33 year olds who want a 4 year deal.
but no pop
You're adding a whole new clause
rather than adjusting the language of an existing one… I would think the latter is easier than the former.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll admit it's a shift in the intent
but in the end you’d be making an addition to an existing clause rather than adding a completely new clause.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
and I'm not
restricting anything… I’m saying that if the guy who is 33 wants to play until he’s 37 that’s fine… nothing to prevent that at all… but hey if he retires at 36 then guess what… those two years remaining on his deal stay on your salary cap.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see any problem with the logic – under the current CBA, signing a player 34 or under is largely risk free:
If they are on LTIR, insurance pays their salary.
If they are injured and can’t play, they retire and the cap hit disappears.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
And
nothing I’m saying would change that until they turn 35… so… what’s the issue?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
At that point
you’re running a risk that 1 in 10 of your players (on average) MIGHT retire and cost you some money… if he’s an elite player with 10+ years of NHL experience, odds are you don’t have to worry so much about it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You asked:
so few contracts are handed out to guys over the age of 35… but hey… lets sign guys who are under 35 until they’re 44? Do you see the problem with this logic?
And I replied:
I don’t see any problem with the logic – under the current CBA, signing a player 34 or under is largely risk free…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Yes but my point was
there’s no added risk.. .they aren’t paying out MORE money.
If the guy retires he stops getting paid.
It’s the cap hit that remains… not the payout.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
But because the caphit would remain it serves as a major deterrent to GMs to ever hand out those contracts in the first place.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
which is the whole point
is it not?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
there's no more deterrent
than there is with the current 35+ rule… that part isn’t changed.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
How is expanding the 35+ rule to cover any and all contracts that have a player signed past the age of 35 not a deterrent?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
It is a deterrent to offering contracts that artificially lower a players’ cap hit when that player has no intention of playing the last seasons for league minimum.
Would the Devils have offered Kovalchuk the deal they did if his $6m hit was going to stick around five years longer than he intended to?
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Kovalchuk’s intended contract is not the norm however. I’m talking about players who sign in their early 30s for a retirement deal and then retire a year or so before it’s up. That’s more the norm than Kovalchuk’s deal.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
It will increasingly become the norm if something isn’t done.
Are there many 34 year old players who sign 3-4 year deals and are forced to retire before their contract is up?
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn't eliminate anything
I’m not preventing older players from playing… they can still get contracts… you’re reacting a bit excessively to a concept that ALREADY EXISTS.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
they sign a 2 or 1 year deal… then more deals afterwards
I think the NHLPA will be opposed to anything that limits players’ choice.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
and the GMs would be opposed to not being able to offer longer terms for 31-33 year old UFAs
but no pop
They can offer longer terms
where the hell are you getting this? I never said they couldn’t offer longer terms.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
they can offer whatever they want
if the player retires the cap hit stays on the books… they don’t have to pay… but the cap hit remains.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
it's EXACTLY
the same as the current 35+ rule.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Player's choice?
how does this limit player’s choice?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If you lower the age at which the cap hit stays on the books, it will limit the payouts available to aging players.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I'm not lowering anything
I’m changing it so it’s any year past 35… not any contract signed past 35… I don’t think the distinction is as large as it appears.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
and I repeat
they make up less than 10% of the NHLPA, so why is this so likely to prevent anyone from agreeing?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
add in the escrow issue
and I think a lot of players would be fine with it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree. I think this is the easiest way to eliminate tails on contracts. Either make a disincentive for teams offering them or make some sort of incentive for players to play out their contracts.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Central question: who wants to eliminate long tails on contracts?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Fair question. Ostensibly the league would as they circumvent the spirit of the CBA by artificially lowering cap hits. If players realized how much they are losing in escrow payments to these type of deals, they probably would as well.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
But the league isn’t negotiating this deal, per se. The league does what the owners want them to do, and there are multiple owners signing off on these deals. So if the Owners like them and the players like them…. where’s the impetus to change anything?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
the idea that ALL owners
are ok with this is misleading. The owners who are ok with it are likely the same large market owners that didn’t feel the CBA was needed in the first place.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Do all owners like them? I am not sure that the majority do.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
well, we’ve heard NHL GMs like Burke and (maybe) Lombardi speak out against them, but can you name one owner who has?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, but can you name one owner who regularly speaks out on any matter like this? The NHL owners aren’t exactly all Mark Cuban.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but when you have Lamorello making it clear that he didn’t like the 17 year deal Kovalchuk signed and did it at the behest of the ownership, and reports out of LA that the only reason Lombardi was even pursuing Kovalchuk was ownership pressure, it seems to me that you’d think an owner would comment on these deals at some point, if they were so dead set against them.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
rich teams?
ask the poor teams.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling the NHL will have other priorities heading into the CBA negotiations.
Putting a term limit on contracts, say 8 years, would ostensibly eliminate long-tail deals without the messy cap/retirement/liability issues being discussed here.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
But is there really a problem with signing a 22 year old generational talent to a 10-12 year deal? The problem isn’t the length of the deals, it is the years that the player has no intention of playing tacked on to the end.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
who wants to eliminate long tails on contracts?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
the NHL
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Ownership
for smaller market teams, that can’t afford to front load contracts that allow the richer teams to design these tail deals in the first place.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
So basically
any team other than Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, New York, Boston, New Jersey, Toronto, and perhaps Montreal… maybe you could throw the Kings and Canucks in there too… but beyond that… probably everyone else.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
you know
all the teams that wanted a CBA in the first place?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
CBA should have been Cap.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
so, we’re debating a clumsy amendment to the the next CBA based on guess work that maybe some smaller markets want it?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
yes guess work
thanks btw for attaching the word “clumsy” … is there are a particular reason you need to be condescending at this point in time?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
you're the one arguing about liability
for contracts that aren’t being paid… and who seems to feel that there will be huge issues around the cap constraints placed on teams filling their rosters with contracts that extend past the age of 35…
there’s really no need to be a jerk about my ideas around a 35+ fixed cap hit on years past that point… and I don’t particularly see how it’s clumsy to say so.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn’t meant to be pejorative.
If you want to eliminate long-tail deals it seems to me the simplest way to do it is to put term limits on contracts. The one you are proposing seems far less simple.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
ok I think that's fine
I don’t disagree with that solving the issue.
I just think the way I’m suggesting allows teams the freedom to lock up younger talents long term, without allowing for the retirement tails issue.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
My challenge with your proposal is that it puts too many constraints on GMs and players.
I can’t see GMs pushing their owners to approve it and I foresee the NHLPA resisting it.
An 8 to 10 year term limit would likely be a-ok with GMs/owners and easier for the NHLPA to swallow.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Issue
The poorer, small market teams aren’t spending to the cap anyways. A chunk for this upcoming season are going to be around the cap floor. Those teams are spending big money on free agents if they have front loaded deals or not. If small market teams are bitching to the BoG about tailed contracts, they’re missing the bigger picture.
but no pop
That's not an issue
it’s the whole PROBLEM.
They can’t afford these deals, so all the top end players will sign them with richer teams that can.
Hence the talent doesn’t redistribute the way it was supposed to under the Cap… and you’re back to square one.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
redistribute
no one in the leagues is being re-distributed, due to extended contracts, we need a max length to avoid top end players staying on one team their entire careers, Movement = Money in any sport… you think the players would want this due to the fact UFA’s usually get a increased pay bump.
Jembries
by oneKesselcul on Jul 27, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Whether or not Kovalchuk has a tail on his contract to fit NJ unde the cap has zero impact on Florida, Carolina, Tampa, Atlanta, Phoenix, Dallas, Nashville, COlumbus, etc, etc
but no pop
bullshit
If those deals become the norm… and right now they aren’t…. then I can sign lots of good players for lots of long term deals for lots of low cap hit if I have the money to do so…
it increases a problem that DOES still exist under the current cap…. it exacerbates the issue.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s speculation. Doesn’t change the fact that small market teams can’t even pay Kovalchuk in the first place, regardless if his deal is for 8 million or 10 million. The only teams that should be crying foul are the ones who wanted to sign Kovalchuk but didnt
but no pop
It's not really speculation
it’s exactly how the NHL worked BEFORE the salary cap.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
and Kovy
isn’t being paid 8 or 10 million… he’s making 102 million… over 95 million of it in the first 10 years.
A lot of teams will not sign players to a 95 million dollar contract.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this last part 100%. And it has nothing to do with tails on deals. It has to deal with league finances in general.
but no pop
I agree
I’m just looking for a way to limit these sort of contracts.
Offering any player a deal that pays them over $60 million is insane when the contracts are guaranteed…
you need rules to save the owners from themselves.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
funny how Atlanta made that $100 mill offer to Kovalchuk but somehow aren’t able to pay him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah
but that’s the thing… that was an attempt to SAVE the existence of the franchise… he WAS the face of the franchise… it’s like Vanek signing in Buffalo when Lowe made the offer sheet… they couldn’t let everyone walk …
the inflation issue is a big one with a lot of the smaller market teams… and I Doubt they WANT to pay Kovy $100 mill… they probably thought they had to to keep the franchise afloat.
We’ll see how things work out long term.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No way in hell.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They have spent a decade selling him as the face of the franchise to their prospective fan base. He had way more value to them than he would if he was another team’s UFA.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It will impact those teams when their star players walk for front loaded, contracts that are half tail. You think Stamkos is going to stick around in Tampa one minute longer than he has to if he isn’t getting a similar deal when it’s his turn?
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
their star players are ALREADY walking for bigger contracts. You think Kovalchuk was staying in Atlanta for a front loaded deal?
but no pop
Maybe, he only took $2 more total to sign with NJ. And he probably won’t see that extra $2m because he won’t play out the last years of that deal.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
ok then
so the CBA didn’t solve the problem as it stands… which is exactly my point.
The CBA was intended to level the playing field, and in less than 10 years it is back to not being level again. That’s not a good thing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair question. Ostensibly the league would as they circumvent the spirit of the CBA by artificially lowering cap hits. If players realized how much they are losing in escrow payments to these type of deals, they probably would as well.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
10% of the NHLPA are players who are 35+, no?
This change would effect all players younger than 35 as well, so that 10% doesn’t apply. In fact, I’d say that the only ones it doesn’t change anything for is taht 10% of the NHLPA.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah
but the point I’m making is… going forwards… there’s no reason to anticipate that proportion INCREASING… the fact that I know that out of my peer group, no matter my age, a very small percentage make it to the age of 35+ in the NHL means that it likely won’t affect my contract status… and even if I do get that far, if I’m good enough to still be playing in the NHL, teams will sign me to one year deals, which are frankly MORE flexible than longer term deals for younger UFAs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
sure
but because a very small portion of players make it to 35+, if you’re a 27 year old player who wants to sign long term, wouldn’t this change make it less likely for you to get that retirement deal?
That’s a far greater proportion of the NHLPA that’s affected.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No
I’d get a deal that takes me to 35 years of age… just not beyond it… and odds are I’m not playing to 35… the only way most teams are signing guys to long term deals is by tacking on the league minimum which the players aren’t planning on playing for anyway… this in no way changes the amount of money players are expecting to see.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But players don’t care what the odds are that they’d still be playing at 35… they care that if the want to still be playing at 35, they have a place to play.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
and they will
this isn’t shutting that door…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is making any contract past 35 stay on the books
limiting a player’s ability to make money????
They only get paid if they play either way… if they retire they don’t get the money the way it is CURRENTLY… this doesn’t hurt their chances of playing past 35 in any way shape or form in terms of being physically capable.
If they’re good enough to be in the NHL at 35 they’ll still be there.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing this will change
is the idea of teams signing players to deals past 35 years of age when they anticipate the player will retire… there’s no point in making the payouts past 35 so low… since if you like said player enough to want him to be on your team, you’ll pay him what you think he’s WORTH… not the league minimum.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is making any contract past 35 stay on the books limiting a player’s ability to make money????
If a teams’ cap space is used up by players who are retired that’s money/salary/cap space that cannot be assigned to players who are currently active.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
then don't
sign those players.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
don't sign guys
past 35… then when they get to 35 give them contracts they’re likely to play out.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If there's a disincentive
then it certainly would happen.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically it would force GMs to never give a contract to a player that would extend it past the age of 35.
It’d force 32 year olds to sign 3 year deal, 33 year olds to 2 year deals, etc…
I
It would completely handcuff GMs and players in giving out contracts and no one would go for it.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
umm
but they already do that for players over 35… why would they not go for it? They’re already doing it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You're completely
ignoring all the evidence to the contrary… the vast majority of older veteran players are signed to 1 or 2 year contracts.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
look up all the players over 35 years of age
then look at their contracts…
most of them expire around 36 or 37 if they’re longer term… and the short term ones are all a year or two long…
it’s already par for the course for most of the guys that age in the NHL… the weird deals are the ones being signed by 25-27 year olds that take them past the age of 40.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just thinking that it may be hard to convince young plaers that it’s in their best interests to have to sign a new contract at 35 years old.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
even though
that’s exactly how it works right now?
I feel like you’re implying that 25 year old kids will be obstinate idiots that ignore the reality around them… which may or may not be true…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
but that’s not exactly how it works right now… young players may look at Duncan Keith’s contract and say “I want to do the same”. This takes that away from them.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes and young players
may also say “I want to win the Norris Trophy” unfortunately they can’t all do that… and they aren’t all Duncan Keith… too bad so sad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You k now it’d be nice if you didn’t use sarcasm to sidestep my point.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is
the vast majority might want to sign deals like that, but teams won’t offer them, and they own’t sign them… so it’s not really important as far as the discussion goes (from where I sit).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
also
only the last 4 years of Keith’s deal would be affected by this argument I’m making…
If he plays until he’s 39… no big deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
vast majority might want to sign deals
If we both agree that the majority of NHLPA would want to sign deals like these, doesn’t that mean they’re in favour of these deals and therefore would resist a CBA that doesn’t allow them?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Exceptional players will continue to get exceptional contracts, in all likelihood.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
face it
almost none of the tail deals are being signed by guys that plan on re-negotiating when they’re 35… they plan on retiring with a gazillion dollars… not playing for the glory of it when they’re past 35.
They won’t be bothered by the fact they have to renegotiate… they’ll be bothered by the fact that the cap hits will increase which limits how much they can get on a front loaded deal…. the fact that they’ll need to renegotiate at 35 is irrelevant and we all can see that (can’t we?)
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily. Players over 35 still get multi year deals under the current system.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If they are good enough and healthy enough for the team to deem the risk worthwhile.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Then how do they get paid?
What have you got against veterans over 35 playing in the NHL?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
lol
I’m saying don’t sign guys to contracts past the age of 35… if they can still play at 35… sign them to deals then.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
But it is limiting their options.
They are forced to sign another deal at 35, and at that time it’s pretty much guaranteed they’ll have to take a salary hit. Maybe they’re doing that anyways with the tails of these contracts, and maybe they could be convinced that this is to their benefit because if they’re still producing well at that age, they could be paid more than with these super-long deals, but I’m not so sure it would be an easy sell to the players.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This season (or last) you've had the following NHL players on 35+ contracts
Tim Thomas, Mark Recchi, Daniel Alfredsson, Alexei Kovalev, Sergei Gonchar, Chris Pronger, Rod Brind’Amour (retired), Adam Foote, Jere Lehtinen, Mike Modano, Karlis Skrastins, Todd Bertuzzi, Tomas Holmstrom, Kris Draper, Chris Osgood, Nik Lidstrom, Nikolai Khabibulin, Jaroslav Spacek, Steve Sullivan, Brian Rolston, Dwayne Roloson, Doug Weight, Donald Brashear, Ian Laperriere, Ray Whitney, Mathieu Schneider…
I mean the list can keep going… I stopped at Phoenix… but you get the idea… most of these guys are on short term deals already, and I don’t see why there is this huge push to sign guys way past 35… there AREN’T that many of them… and the ones that are still playing do so on short term contracts unless they’re named Pronger.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would a team want a cap hit to stay on the books?
Why would the NHLPA support a move that chews up salary space?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I do not see how this move would chew up salary space
if it were grandfathered in.
Obviously fewer deals would go past 35… but that doesn’t mean lots of salary space is suddenly chewed up.
Right now that salary space is chewed up so it makes it hard for a lot of players to negotiate that far into the future… until said player retires, teams have those dollars on the books anyway.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this sums up a lot of my feelings:
PLEASE, WON’T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE VETERANS!!
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
As a totally different alternative...
What about changing the language on the reduction in salary clause. Right now it allows you to keep reducing as long as it doesn’t drop by more than a set amount (can’t remember the exact language, but something like half of the average of the first two years).
What if it was changed to something like the lowest year can not be less than 25% (just a number out of the air) of the highest year. That means that by front loading at 10 a year, the lowest years couldn’t be lower than 2.5 mil. This would basically allow contracts like DiPietro, which seems to be an ok one.
Finally on the Twitter train, @j6events. Follow me, I swear I'll have interesting thoughts soon!
by BetterThanBester on Jul 27, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This was probably mentioned already, but damn 700+ posts..
I thought Canucks fans already all hated Bieksa, so I’m surprised to hear he has defenders.
Hopefully Gillis will lose some luster soon with the fans here because it’s kind of nauseating how amazing the fans think he is. He seems like a boring mumbly guy who offers crazy contracts to superstars.
Gillis is surprisingly doing fairly well, although I think his blueline is still pathetic and prevents the Canucks from actually winning anything.
But yes Bieksa has fans and it drives me CRAZY.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The way the fans talk about him you’d think Gillis (or GMMG as some questionable individuals call him) has cured cancer and established a moonbase or something.
I just want to slap them. More than usual.
by LeafFanInVan on Jul 27, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
oh yes agreed
especially since they universally hate Burke, you know, the GM who finally gave the franchise some respectability.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re probably just thinking they’re the new bosses of the West now since Chicago had to have a salary cap sale and San Jose let their goalie go to Russia.
Isn’t Vancouver in a similar situation this year? Win the Cup or bust?
Truculence...starting 10/1/09
Not really, they have Luongo, the Sedins, Kesler and Burrows all locked up long term. And Hamhuis.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
he was pretty awesome for my pool team two seasons ago!
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Where the hell is Jared today, anyway?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions
sleeping
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
so, like, night shift style? because the arguments above were so terribly devoid of any humour i thought we’d have to bring out the bat-signal.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Quick poll
TSN had a top 10 best agitator show and #1 was matthew barnaby
I disagree.
Discuss
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
ESPN did a survey of NFL players for “dirtiest player in the league” and Rodney Harrison was near the top of the list…even though he was already a TV analyst.
<3 HGH <3
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I also disagree.
Has to go to Claude Lemiuex.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Best agitator Karina, not best turtle
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
hint
most agitators turtle
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 27, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ve never seen Steve Ott agitate
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 27, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
of all time?
Esa Tikannen
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 27, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Ted Lindsay?
Gordie Howe?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Truly it was a special thing how he could piss people off even when they couldn’t understand a damn thing he was saying.
Some kind of pan-linguistic gift.
by LeafFanInVan on Jul 27, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
In summary
the way the current CBA is written, it will eventually see player contracts return to similar levels they were before the cap was put in place, just with long tails attached that players have no intention of playing for. The escrow issue will increase if players sign more deals like this… player movement will slow to a crawl via trade because teams won’t be willing to take on others’ mistakes…
basically free agency will only become fun because the big market teams will be waiting to poach the small market teams (as it used to be).
I just don’t see how this is what the NHL had in mind when it constructed the current CBA.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I’d like to see the NHL go to a luxury tax. I’ve thought about this for a while. Set the upper limit somewhere around 48-52 million. Anything over that is a $ for $ penalty, of which 100% goes into revenue sharing.
but no pop
Ah but see
the big market teams would never go for that one either.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus they already have
revenue sharing and penalties for exceeding the cap.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
revenue sharing in the NHL is a joke. The league will never get the type of TV contract required to keep most of it’s teams in the black. You have three options: continue running a league where half of the teams are losing money, enact a tough luxury tax/revenue sharing system, or contract about 6 teams.
but no pop
As an A’s fan, I am not crazy about the way luxury taxes and revenue sharing have played out in baseball.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
the tax threshold in baseball is way too high. MLB also doesn’t require a floor amount, so teams like Florida can spent 30 million dollars in payroll and make more than that in profit due to revenue sharing.
but no pop
The current MLB set up is basically designed to screw the teams in the middle. The big dogs can spend as much as they want with near impunity, and the teams at the bottom can collect their profit sharing, but the teams in the middle get nothing.
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Jul 27, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree with you on this one Birky. My idea was have 2 Caps: A soft luxury tax threshold set somewhere above what the current “internal caps” are, and a higher hard cap to prevent the big teams from overspending. Also, maintain the cap floor. Penalties for going over the Luxury Tax threshold are $ for $ and go to revenue sharing. I don’t know exactly what those cap levels should be, but lets say if this happened today: Soft Cap 50million, Hard Cap 65 million.
LT Penalties are based on team cap hit, not team salary. To remove these long term deals with “tails”, you make a rule where the lowest yearly salary in the contract can be no less than 50% of the highest year. 35+ rule remains as is; only limit on contract length is that no pre40 contract can go more than 2 years after 40, and any 40+ contract can be no more than 2 years. Ovechkin’s contract is still valid, Kovy’s is not.
BADDA BOOM BADDA BING NHL FIXED!
Maybe I should fanpost this idea so we can have a big discussion without crashing another thread? I mean we are nearing 1,000 comments AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED TODAY! PPP RULEZ THE INTERNETS!
bestest interwebs page evar!!
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 27, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You know who I hate?
guys like Lukas Sutter.
Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... I don't believe in C's, but I do believe in Semin 2011.
who is Lukas Sutter?
?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
nm
youngest in the Sutter clan to be playing in the CHL… why are we hating him?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
cuz he’s playing for the americans in the next junior tournament.
Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... I don't believe in C's, but I do believe in Semin 2011.
But he's american?
so why is that a problem? He also isn’t really good enough to make the Canadian club?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
a Sutter....
playing for the americans….
Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... I don't believe in C's, but I do believe in Semin 2011.
meh
I could care less… they’ve done a great job screwing up the Flames and taking our crap off our hands and shipping us Phaneuf…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re going to see a lot of this in the future unfortunately. The sons of most of these NHLers will be born in the US and if talent can pass through generations.
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Meh, possibly the bigger problem is that global warming means you can’t have a backyard rink in canada for nearly as many months of the year. I’m less worried about genetics migrating south than losing the steady supply of people who had tens of thousands of hours of ice time as little kids whirling around in their back yard with a stick and a puck.
Trade Proposal
To Tor:
Souray 5.4M 2 more years Age:34 Projected line:1st w/ Phaneuf or 2nd with Kabs or send down to AHL to clear space
Penner 4.25M 2 more years Age:27 Projected line:1st w/ Bozak/Kessel
To Edm:
Gunnarsson 800K for 1 more year Age:23 Projected line:2nd w/Beachemin
Beauchemin 3.8M for 2 more years Age:30 Projected line:2nd w/Gunnar
Leafs lose 4.6M and gain 9.65M= +5.05M-3.5M(Finger to AHL)= +1.55M
Edm lose 9.65M and gain 4.6M= -5.05M in cap space
Why Edm does this: Souray has negative value(cleared waivers) and Penner has been a bust excluding last year; can Penner repeat last year again? Gunnarsson had a break out year for the leafs in his rookie season; can he repeat that? With Beauchemin you know what your getting; do you really? This can help build a strong young defensive unit for the oilers, a team that has argueably the top 3 forward prospects.
Why Tor does this:They have the worst offense on paper going into next season. DESPERATE for a top 6 forward. Doesn’t look like Kabs will be traded by Aug.15 so they need to trade away Gunnar for top 6 help. They get Souray who is a Burke type defenseman. If they come up with cap trouble they can afford to send him down to ahl.
Basically its:
Tor: Trades away young rising dman and gets the top 6 forward they NEED
Edm: Dumps Souray, loose their best forward from last year but gain a well structured and young blueline.
Nope
there’s no way that Burke dumps Souray AND Finger to the AHL to the detriment of the development of all his prospect blue liners.
as much as he loves Penner, he walked away from him once, and I could see him ignoring it at this point. Edmonton’s offense may be worse than Toronto’s this season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 27, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade proposals no matter what they are, who they include are stupid and a waste of time.
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Fleischmann 1-year deal avoiding arbitration
cmasisak22
Team source says Tomas Fleischmann’s deal is for $2.6 million. Aaaaand, back to vacation. #Caps
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
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