MLHS Asks: Why Not Frolov?
by Chemmy on Jul 28, 2010 3:17 PM EDT
Email
PrintMichael Cuttell over at Maple Leafs Hot Stove had this to say about Frolov signing with the Rangers:
However, to a team in the Leafs’ position, he’s useless. As we established from the beginning, the Leafs are not realistic contenders for the Cup this year. When they finally are ready – even one year later – Frolov would not be around. In the mean time, he’d take up a valuable roster spot; valuable as a tool for imparting priceless experience on a young player who is going to be part of future Leafs’ Cup runs.
Right now in my eyes the Leafs have three true "top six" wingers; Nikolai Kulemin, Kris Versteeg and Phil Kessel. There are two bubble wingers in Colby Armstrong and Luca Caputi.
If we look at Caputi as a player who would be gaining "priceless experience" I think that his game needs a little more polish before he's ready for a top six role. Ordinarily I'd say toss him on the Marlies but Caputi has dominated the AHL level for too long for that to matter. I'd put him on the third line in the right situations with the right minutes to develop.
The Leafs have room for another top six winger and for a guy like Frolov I think there'd be a lot of positives for him and the Leafs if he had signed here.
For the Leafs having a guy like Frolov come in and replace Ponikarovsky's production would be a big step towards stepping out of the draft lottery and hoping to get a little lucky in a weak Eastern Conference. He would also be a valuable trading chip at the trade deadline. If Frolov played well a lot of teams would be interested and he would return the Leafs a 2nd round pick or maybe even a good prospect (see: Ponikarovsky's trade last year).
This benefits Frolov as well: he'd get tons of good minutes with the top line and power play time. He'd be in a position to maximize his counting stats and then get traded to a playoff team to continue marketing himself as a player worth a long deal.
Admittedly Frolov wouldn't be around next year or the year after but the reasons given: that he'd stunt development and then disappear don't hold up. Frolov could give us a draft pick back or a prospect on top of helping the team for a year in the short term.
Too late now.
281 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Agree
There’s not really a good argument against signing Frolov. If he had played the kids get some easier minutes to develop in.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
And if he plays well enough for the Leafs to squeak into 8th, the Leafs kids get playoff minutes to help their development.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Well said. The idea that the team wouldn’t benefit from a guy like Frolov on the exact deal he signed with the Rangers is laughable. Whether or not Frolov is the best guy for the situation is debatable, but signing a NHL caliber winger with something to prove to slot in the top-six is a no brainer.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions
The only reason I can think of to explain Burke’s inaction at filling in the Top 6 is his expected return from a Tomas Kaberle trade. But it’s been said numerous times that he’s playing hardball and won’t trade him for anything less than the asking price.
If he gets back a Top 6 winger for Kaberle, then not signing guys like Frolov, Poni, or Afinogenov looks like a smart move.
But if he doesn’t find a trading partner, then it absolutely looks like a missed opportunity.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
or Frolov just didn’t want to play here
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
That too, and it seems likely that playing top line minutes with Gaboriki was a pretty good selling point.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m more referring to signing a Top 6 winger at all; not necessarily just Frolov.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Yea, that’s my thinking too.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Not for $3M he didn't
If Burke had thrown $5M it might be a diff story.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Discount signing suggests he wanted to play for the Rangers. Personally I don’t want to watch another big bodied forward skate around a lot, plunge into the corner then start poking his stick around players feet. Ponikarovsky was frustrating and Frolov is basically the same player.
Burkie wants a caste system top 6/bottom 6 like he had with the USA team, Frolov is a statistically better player than some of his USA inclusions, but not a role player.
by Richard-Steven Williams on Jul 28, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Frolov
is not the same player as Ponikarovsky.
He has scored over 30 goals more than once in his career, which is something Poni has never managed. He’s also put up a 70 point season before.
He has more skill, and is more of a true sniper, but less adept defensively, and not as likely to hit as much.
I fail to see why you’re arguing anything about the top 6/bottom 6 from the USA perspective and then saying Frolov is not a “role player” … what role would he be playing other than that of a top 6 winger who is there to put up points?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve pretty much given up on trading Kaberle.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s literally going to cut the A/C off at other GMs’ offices.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
DAL trades James Neal
TOR trades Tomas Kaberle, DAL’s air conditioning power cord
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 28, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can’t wait for Burke to hold on to Kaberle and then lose him for nothing next summer. That’ll be a fun pill to swallow.
but no pop
But Burke will be doing it for moral reasons. Intangibles. Character. Grit.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
or
if we want to be realistic: Kaberle wanted too many years on his contract.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke’s got 17 days left to trade Kaberle.
He’s a smart man and a good GM, if he’s even remotely entertaining the thought of keeping Kabs in town I can’t see anyway he hasn’t had preliminary talks with Kaberle’s people about what Kabs wants his next contract to look like.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Do you think he’d drop his price though? I’d like him to, if indeed Kaberle’s demands are ones he won’t meet. And despite everything he says, I am doubtful that he actually does want to keep Kaberle long-term.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I have absolutely no insight (or understanding) into what Burke is likely to do.
It seems like a pretty simple equation to me: what puts the Leafs closer to a cup? Is it moving Kaberle for X or keeping him and re-signing him at Y$ and Z years?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Hmmm good point.
Sounds to me like it all depends on the value of X
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Three unknowns
means we need at least 3 equations to solve for all 3 of them… or else two of those unknowns need to become knowns.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
resigning Kaberle also impacts the Leafs system. If you’ve got Beauch, Komi, Phaneuf, Schenn, Gunnar, and Kaberle locked up for the next 3 years, what do you do with Aulie, Blacker, Holzer, etc?
but no pop
Having too many resources isn’t something I’d worry about.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Never mind the kids, what of Lebda?!?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Lebda
Lebda
Lebda
Lebda
Lebda
Lebda
Lebda
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
So you’re saying…. Lebda?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Ledba
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
that clears up everything
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Abdelkader?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
what do you do with Aulie, Blacker, Holzer, etc?
Let them develop. We don’t need marginal prospects playing at 21 years old.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Problem is if those guys are still in the A our blueline will cost about $30MM by the time Schenn and Gunnar are re-upped.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
assuming Burke never trades anybody currently on the roster, yes.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
assuming Burke never trades anybody currently on the roster, yes.
Agreed.
The challenge is Komisarek and Kaberle have NTCs, Finger might as well have one too. The leaves Beauchemin, Gunarsson and Schenn as trade bait. Oh, and Lebda, Lebda, Lebda.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Right now I’d say Gunarsson is your cheaper, better defensive replacement for Kaberle. And Schenn will be an upgrade from Beauchemin in 2 years. They really can’t be moved as they’re the only 2 defensemen who could potentially outplay their contracts.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Coincidentally, doesn’t Beauchemin’s contract run out in 2 years?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Correct, hence an upgrade. Only bad part is that Schenn is an RFA after this season.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Well depending on how well he plays this season, it’s debatable how much of a raise he’ll get.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
So if Kaberle is re-upped, we expect Beauchemin to be traded?
Anyone think Beauchemin would yield more than Kaberle in a trade?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
No, but I think trading Beauchemin for something like a pick or prospect and re-signing Kaberle could be a step on the way to winning.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
No matter who gets dealt off the blue line, my initial read is that the Leafs need to get help upfront in return.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Moving out salary alone allows for buying help upfront. But in some way, there’s gotta be movement on our defense to actually make us competative.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
A Top 4 in 2 years comprising of Phaneuf, Komisarek, Schenn, and Gunarsson is not bad at all. Add to that Blacker and Aulie as the 5th and 6th and that’s pretty good.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Don’t forget your #1 true awesome defenseman Jeff Finger
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
His contract expires in 2 years.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be a big loss. He’s a big part of your defense.
/ turns joke mode off
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget Holzer and Mikus.
I certainly hope by 12/13 Phaneuf and Komi are the only over-27 guys our D.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Aulie
is not a marginal prospect… he was probably NHL ready last year before his shoulder injury.
Holzer is probably only a year or so away based on his play at the Olympics.
Blacker might be 2 or so.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
develop them
the oldest (Holzer) will be all of 25. It isn’t unheard of to be a 25 year old NHL rookie…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Leafs own his rights. If he doesn’t like it, oh well
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s already there
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
my bad, was there.
so now he’s here for 2 years. we’ve yet to see him play a single game, and already you’ve decided he’s going to bail on the Leafs?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw him play games
in the Olympics… he was quite reasonable in his own end.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention the fact that I think most people on the site believe it’s good to have young players on your NHL roster outperforming their ELCs. In 3 years, none of those guys will be on ELCs
but no pop
Having guys outperforming ELCs implies they’re good enough to outplay their ELC.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
sure it does
if they’re in the AHL, and absolutely dominating at that level, they get called up.
if they force the team to play him at that level, then they trade one of their excess.
trades do happen. i realize it’s been a while since we’ve seen the Leafs make one, but they do occur.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems complicated?
I hope Burke doesn’t think that way, otherwise I will really worry about how the team is being built.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
My media pals were certain that the Leafs were going to sign a few UFA d-men and trade away a few roster d-men.
That too seemed complicated to me. So far neither part of the equation has happened.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Easier to not re-sign?
but trading him gives you something of value in return… Unfortunately because of his NTC we can’t do that at the trade deadline, so it’s time to fish or cut bait right now.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle seems to love it here so much he’ll probably play for a guarantee that we won’t even try and trade him again, plus league min.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
you think Kaberle wants to stay now? I don’t. I just think he wants control over his destination.
but no pop
I agree, I was joke making.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
No way. If he’d wanted control over his destination, he’d have given Burke a list while he still had an NTC. He has less control right now than ever, as he sits around praying the phone doesn’t ring. That’s not much of a strategy if all he wants is control.
I do believe he gave Burke a list at the deadline. But it had something like 2 teams on it.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The 1980 USA Olympic Team
The 1985 Edmonton Oilers
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
The 2025 Mexico City Banditos del Ice Hockey
The Muppet Babies Fan Club
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
You see, JFJ set up his contract real smart like. There’s this window that allows me to move him after the draft. Unfortunately, I don’t believe in loopholes, no trade clauses, or fine print that would give us any kind of competitive edge.
but no pop
The 2011 trade deadline will be the Leafs UFA period.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
No worries guys, the buyout period is going to be our UFA period.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
The playoffs will be our preseason. The regular season will be our playoffs. The preseason will be our regular season.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
The preseason will be our regular season.
SUCCESS
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair did he ever say July 1st 2010?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair Burke says a lot of crap and the only thing I believe is that he wants to win. Everything else is him enjoying the sound of his own voice.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if “fair” is the word I’d use.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Is that why he wears Velcro shoes?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
and doesnt do his tie up
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 28, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Does he let the suspenders casually hang from his pants as soon as he walks outside?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I think it’s more with arbitration over teams will have a better sense of what they need/want. Maybe some GMs though Columbus would not re-sign Stralman, who knows.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
heard something on Fan590 today that burke is mulling Grabner and Vans 1st for Kabba…. but alas, all bullshit probably
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it just a random caller?
Because people who call into Fan590 and Leafs lunch (may it RIP) come up with some of the craziest shit.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
no, not a random called, I think it was Jim Kelly
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Kelly be dumb
On June 25, 2010, during the 2010 NHL Entry Draft, Grabner was traded, along with Steve Bernier and the Canucks first round choice in the draft, the twenty-fifth selection (used to select Quinton Howden) to the Florida Panthers for Keith Ballard and Victor Oreskovich.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
yea, i only caught a bit of it as i was working, he must have mentioned it in past tense….. just forget i even mentioned it
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Grabner’s on the Panthers now…he was in the Ballard trade. And I don’t think there was another 1st rounder in that deal.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought he had moved somewhere, forgot where it was.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
ah, sorry, he must have mentioned it in past tense
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
FLA got Van’s #1 too according to wiki
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
2010 #1
It was already used.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Kelly was probably saying something along the lines of “well Florida got this for Ballard who sucks, so why couldn’t Burke have made that deal instead for Kaberle?”
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Ya cuz Vancouver needs more defencemen. If that was the offer should take it and run
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jul 28, 2010 3:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought that too.
But double checked and Grabner and Van’s #1 are in FLA now.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I did hear that offer was on the table for Kabs at one point. I’m still holding out hope that Gillis wants to ship out Hodgson. Also yes, I have been smoking peyote.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jul 28, 2010 4:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think he was like #3 on Hockey’s Future last year. Presumably pre-back injury, but still.
Peyote FTW, I think that’s the only way we get Hodgson.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh ya, the kid was a blue chipper in every way. Even tho he is a Canuck, I hope he can recover.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jul 28, 2010 4:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He’s a Panther now.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
60% of the time
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Hodgon?
Hold on, let me tell my husband.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So I’m rappelling down Mount Vesuvius when suddenly I slip, and I start to fall. Just falling, ahh ahh, I’ll never forget the terror. When suddenly I realize “Holy shit, Hansel, haven’t you been smoking Peyote for six straight days, and couldn’t some of this maybe be in your head?”
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vancouver already traded Grabner. For Ballard.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
in Columbus
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Out of interest, why? I mean, kinda arbitrary to tag a “no news is bad news” onto this. There are offers out there, it’s just about playing them off of each other. There are still two weeks left in the window, right?
I don’t think anyone ups their offers, and I don’t think Burke lowers his demands.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle
for life!!!!!!!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m more open to having Caputi, Kadri or Mueller rotate through the 2nd line. I’m also someone who likes to ask the question “how will this help us win a Cup?”, not just “will this make us better”. That said, I don’t think Frolov would hurt us long-term, he could help us with a 2nd rd pick, and there’s something to be said for having a better team next year even if we’re not a contender.
All those games we watch every year count, even if they are not going towards a Cup. I enjoy wins and want more of them short-term as long as they don’t cost us long-term.
Bottom line is I guess I can see the argument either way. I’m more aggressive in promoting kids than you are but I freely acknowledge it’s a debatable point.
See, I think this could be good for Mueller, Caputi and Kadri. Let them play in the AHL and trade Frolov at the deadline. Whichever one of them is doing the best gets his spot.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Excatly, it’s not like we have some prospect who is undeniably ready and we’re holding him back for some arbitrary reason.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This needs to be said more
Playing young players does not equal developing stars. You need to have young players with talent, or else you’re just holding everyone else back.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jul 28, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s totally arguable. I just think Caputi in particular has nothing to learn in the AHL. Sink or swim time, and he needs top 6 minutes.
Frankly I also think Burke has inked Kadri into the lineup. It’ll take whiteout to get him out.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
With the Ron Wilson line blender I wouldn’t mind Caputi as a 3rd liner. If he shows flashes of brilliance (mostly in the skating department) he gets a promotion.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Caputi and Armstrong isn’t a horrible 3rd line, but don’t know who would centre them. Kadri/Grabbo/Hanson (<— when is this fucker going to re-sign)
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Kulemin – Bozak – Kessel
???? – Grabovski – Versteeg
Caputi – Mitchell – Armstrong
Orr – Hanson – Sjostrom
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yea and I think you’d see Mitchell and Hanson move up and down based on chemistry, etc.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Stupid ???? why won’t you ever turn into a reality.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That being said
???? could be Kadri if he feels like trying Winggggggggger and Burke gets us no top 6.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
derp derp derp don’t you want to put grabbo on the wing and automatically pencil kadri into his spot nert nert?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 28, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
forgot Mike Brown….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I don’t think he did.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I don’t see him on the Marlies.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully they trade seats in the press box/4th line. We’d get murdered (on the scoresheet at least) if both of them played a regular shift.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve heard rumours that we’ll have a serviceable penalty kill this year.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t jinx it.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
uh… chemmys roster doesnt have mike brown on it. Burke did say he would be on the NHL club…
just sayin…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Teams normally carry 13-14 forwards up on the big club. Mike Brown is, like Antonio Banderas, the 13th forward/warrior.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
haha, alright. Not trying to jump on chemmy beleive me, i just looked at the roster and didnt see brown.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I have read the book and watched the movie but cannot remember the ending to either. It’s been a couple years but still…
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
Upon discovering that the warriors have entered the lair, the Wendol give chase, forcing them to submerge into a pool which leads out to the cliffs by the sea. The last remaining warriors return to the village and prepare for a final battle. The Wendol appear and both engage in an epic battle. Buliwyf kills the leader of the Wendol and they retreat, defeated. Order is restored to the village, but only after Buliwyf dies from the poison. Ahmad ibn Fadlan returns to his homeland, thankful to the Norse for helping him to “become a man, and a useful servant of God”.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Most likely Hanson, if he re-signs .
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Boy that skating is ugly. You’re right re. line blender too—we shouldn’t treat roles as fixed.
Bottom line is we have 11 F spots locked up. I think Kadri, Caputi and Hanson duke it out for the last 2, leaving little space unless (hope hope) Burke trades three nickels for a quarter again.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel being top line
is really the only lock, and unless we get a #1 centre (somehow) before October, Bozak is right beside him.
Everything else is wacky line juggling.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
“line blender” is probably my favourite slang in all of PPP. just rolls off the tongue.
like how albertans call antelope “speed goats”.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 28, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Caputi
will never show flashes of brilliance in the skating department so don’t hold your breath.
What he MIGHT show is a Dino Cicarelli ability to park his ass in front of the net…. THAT would be a great thing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you here (I’m just as scared as you are).
Only thing I disagree with is the 3 players. I believe that Kadri and Mueller should be in the AHL to start the year and give Caputi that last top 6 spot. Kadri to get more accostomed to the pro game and Mueller to get adjusted to NA rink
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jul 28, 2010 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, that would be my bet, I’m just leaving open the possibility of camp surprises and in-season developments.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, he would have helped, but why won’t he be around next year? He only signed a one-year deal. Maybe you mean he won’t be around at a good price? Will depend on how he does in NY I guess.
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 28, 2010 3:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Not convinced I want Frolov long term.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
At the rate that the market was going, and with not many teams showing interest, he would have had to take a one year deal to stay in the NHL.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I see: and it is unlikely he would sign another one-year job. That makes it seem unlikely Afinoganov would this summer either, but I wonder how long he will hold out for longer term. More than the Kovalchuk deal, it seems like arbitration deals getting done is going to be the thing that opens up the market, once teams get those results, they’ll have a more defined budget.
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 28, 2010 3:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep. You have to expect that the August/September market for free agents will be a lot more active than it has been in the latter part of this month.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs do need scoring, so I think Frolov would have been a good fit in Toronto. You have to wonder what Burke looks at in signing FAs, though (obviously, he wants a “hockey player”, as in a gritty guy who plays hard every night). That could have been why Colby Armstrong got a redonkulous deal.
Frolov was in Terry Murray’s doghouse last year, too, and that could have been translated negatively towards Burke. I’m not sure if Poni was grilled for “work ethic” problems last year, though (mind you, I’m not stereotyping or anything – just want to get a bit inside Burke’s mindset).
If he didn’t sign Frolov, then I guess it might count on signing a guy like Afinogenov as well.
So…er…Stempniak, anyone? ;)
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
Oh the 3rd line, yes. In the Top 6? No. But he’s never coming back.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Heh, I know you guys have vilified Stempniak for his post-Toronto performance. Was merely a jab.
Hearing he’s probably going to re-sign in Phoenix anyways.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think vilified is the right term, just that he doesn’t have a role to fill here now.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 28, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Stempniak's true ability
lies somewhere between the lackluster performance on the Leafs last year and his Ovechkinlike run in Phoenix.
Most players have ups and downs, they just don’t normally last for 30+ game stretches.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 28, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be okay with a guy like Afinogenov, or even Afinogenov for the right price.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure you would be, as he had a good bounce-back year last year, but it all depends what Burke is thinking. A one-year deal would be great for Max to possibly increase his value for free agency next year, as there aren’t really a lot of teams out there A) looking for a winger who’s shown signs of inconsistency in the past, and B) teams who are looking for a winger, but are handcuffed by the cap.
If Burke didn’t show interest in a one-year deal for Frolov, do you think he’ll be interested in a one-year rental for Max?
I agree with you overall, though – he’d be a good one-year pickup for you guys.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I could maybe see giving Afinogenov 2 years, but I’m skeptical about it all.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
My guess
I don’t think Burke had any interest in Frolov because there were “attitude” issues supposedly last season. I’m not even sure if this is the right way to GM, but it seems to be Burkey’s way. Attitude and character seem to be as important as goals and assists.
BS
I think most GMs use this sort of thinking. Burke’s style and philosophy are different than most but people always try and build teams with a certain identity.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup
He’s targetting certain players that’s for sure. Doubtful any of them are Russian, unless Afinigenov is somehow boys with Kulemin.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Good then, I like how Burke is avoiding guys with any notion of attitude problems. Except for Phanuef and Kessel who were shitty in their previous changerooms :P
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 28, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I think, and it seems to follow this, that for the most part they look or target players they believe fit a style and can fit into the system they are trying to build here. I think, as good or whatever a player is, he will be over looked if the feeling is that he will not be able to adapt to their system or even playing here in Toronto. So as much as we may think Frolov or anyone else that gets a pass, if there was a chance for them to play here, it would be up to the powers at be to decide if that player will fit in or not… if they are passed, I take as either they didn’t want to play here (for whatever reasons) or the management believed he wouldn’t fit. No sense in getting a nice round peg to jam into a square hole, no matter how nice the round peg is I guess.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
I guess the question is, if the roster still has holes (it does) and there doesn’t appear to be any round pegs for the Leafs round holes, how do you fill out the roster?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
It seems to me that the option seems to be to let the round pegs which aren’t quite big enough to fill those holes see what they can do if you try anyways.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s the trick now isn’t it? How to fill out the roster; do you reach for a band-aide and go for a temp fix or do you exercise patience and take your lumps while doing it? We have some familiarity with the first option right?
I honestly don’t know what he should do but I am pretty sure we shouldn’t just fill a hole for the sake of filling it. We should stick to the plan or blueprint – if there is a plan or blue print – love someone to actually ask Burke or anyone in management what it entails, not that they would divulge that info but worth a try beside the top 6 bottom 6 crap we are fed – and fill holes with players that fill that hole and upgrade when allowable.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
I don’t understand the use of the term band-aid in the pejorative sense. It is a beneficial solution that is simple and relatively risk free. The Leafs aren’t going to be a finished product this year what is the harm in signing a top six winger who might not be a perfect fit for a year? I understand not taking a risk on Zherdev, to an extent, but it’s not like it would cripple the team long term.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the last time I listened to Bob McCown (sp?) he said that when he was invited over to Burke’s house for a BBQ shortly after he moved to Toronto, they had an interesting discussion about how Burke rates team talent.
For example – the typical way you set up your top 6 D is determined by their ranking as compared to how they would stack up in the League. You would have a 1, a 2, a 3 etc.
Anyway, if you add that up you get a total of 21. The ideal is to have that 21 or less. Balance is critical, but say you can’t get a 1, then you would have perhaps two 2’s and two 3’s then a 5 and a 6 to try and balance out the talent.
Not sure how that equates realistically, but over all the most interesting thing to come out of Bob’s mouth in a while.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 28, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This does sound familiar.
I don’t suppose he ever said anything about forwards, did he?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
not that I know of.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 28, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
We can extrapolate
You would have a 1, 2, 3… 12. The ideal is to have 78 or less…
And then for goalies, you’d try to get two goalies to come in at 3 or less. So, 1-1 or 1-2. Note that Toskala was a 4 so we should have known that we were screwed before the season started.
know your enemy?
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 29, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
and it was only interesting because he was explaining something brian burke said heh
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 29, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
first insightful thing he has said about hockey in a long time.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 29, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not hard to understand band-aide without thinking there was some contempt on my part. I do disapprove of “fixing” problems that still will exist when you remove your solution.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Right, but if the problem will heal on its own (as in, young players will grow to fill it), then a bandaid is exactly what you need – a temporary solution to plug it up until the growth from underneath solves everything.
My point exactly. Generally speaking the moves that he is considering “band-aids” were the pre-lockout Quinn and post-lockout JFJ moves, which were not band-aids. They were as depressing as it is, the perceived best course of action for success. The moves were either designed to put us over the top, Nolan, Leetch etc, or build a new core, Raycroft, Toskala, Blake, O’Neill.
The Gigure deal is a band-aid solution, and one that appears to be working rather well, you could argue that Wallin and Primeau were band-aid solutions.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice examples.
A bandaid does not work when what you are looking for is a permanent implant. It does work when due to the timing of your teams internal development you just need a hole covered over temporarily.
Great examples, so the question then would be, in reference to Frolov, would he want to sign here for a year as a temp fix? I am one that thinks there are better options out there for him and proven by signing with NYR. The question still remains if Burke and co had him on their radar or not, and if not why.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Sorry I won’t be so Switzerland…
JFJ seemed to be a guy who put more emphasis on numbers than attitude – Toskala, Raycroft, Blake…We all know Toskala wouldn’t take to practicing hard or with Allaire – this is poor attitude.Raycroft thought he played pretty good after losing the last game of the season and missing the playoffs, and “smirked away a season on the bench.” And Blake couldn’t handle the media, fought people in practice, and only became a hard worker when he was being shopped around.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 28, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Do not smear the numbers crowd by saying JFJ was numbers driven.
He may have ignored character but he wasn’t numbers driven. He was just incompetent.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 28, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m fairly confident he has to take his shoes off to count past 10.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 28, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Except
at the draft table.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, and the waiver wire, I’m just talking overall.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 29, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Calling JFJ a numbers guy is like saying Burke is quiet, timid, GM.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
this is exactly what i was going to say. there was a lot of talk about changing the culture, the only reason you wouldn’t take a one-year flyer on a guy like frolov or zherdev is if you’re really concerned that they’ll be a disaster in the dressing room.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Yes. Even though our coach later made some very favorable comments about him and said there was no longer a problem, that benching probably stuck out. Or that along with his general style of play — he’s a cycler, not a drive-to-the-net scorer or grinder.
I remember at the time we all thought, “Way to harm his trade value, Terry.”
In Dinglebarn We Trust
i don't understand....
where’s the stuff about baseball?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Jul 28, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions
Frolov and Zherdev were not going to sign the deals that they did to come play in Toronto. Now, I’m not saying it wouldn’t be good to sign either of those guys to 4-5 mil/1yr deals. But we have to discuss why Burke didnt sign them at that amount, because the deals Philly and NYR got were not happening with Toronto (or the Islanders or Columbus or whatever).
I can't wait
until we aren’t compared around the league to teams like this:
not happening with Toronto (or the Islanders or Columbus or whatever).
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Frolov and Zherdev were not going to sign the deals that they did to come play in Toronto.
Source?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Considering how persuasive Burke has been with a lot of players already I wonder why you thnk it would be a non-starter?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
He doesn’t seem to be around but I get his thinking. Burke’s convinced a number of players to sign with the Leafs instead of more “attractive” options, but in the two best examples I can think of – Bozak and Gustavsson – the amount they could sign for was already limited so he was able to entice them with playing time.
Both Frolov and Zherdev were complete UFAs and my guess is that to get them to sign in Toronto, Burke would’ve had to offer more money than a competing team.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Bingo Karina. No source, as it is my own deduction (sorry if that was unclear). Philly is (despite the last regular season) one of the top 5-10 teams in the league. the Rangers missed the playoffs by a point, and have Gaborik.
Most of us here feel, and I do to, that our Leafs are a playoff bubble team. But we’ve also put the Leafs through an obsessive amount of analysis. Zherdev and Frolov (and Kovalchuk) are going to see a team that finished 29th, nice season-end run notwithstanding. Until the Leafs put in a strong season, UFAs probably aren’t taking pay cuts to come here.
They pay their agents
to analyze a bit… there was an article about how Hossa’s agent targeted teams he saw having the ability to make a cup run before signing with Chicago – it was published a little over a month back.
They also PLAY against these players… they likely have a feel for the guys on the team, and what their chances are of success.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure Steve, but it doesn’t take a nuclear physicist to compute that Pitt, Det and Chi were cup contenders the last three seasons. There’s going to need to be a bit more “faith” put in from a player’s perspective to see a ton of bright lights around the Leafs after last season, especially for an elite player looking for a Cup in the short term.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 28, 2010 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah don’t sign with the Leafs, go play with The Rangers instead. They are in a Much better position than us (sarcasm)
For a guy trying to have an impact season on a one year deal, so he can put himself in a position next offseason to sign what will probably be the deal of his career, the Rangers probably are the more logical choice. They’ve been a better team for a few years, and will probably still be better next year (after that, maybe not).
Also, as much as I love my home city like no other, the Rags play in NEW F**KING YORK!
I think burke’s going to keep Kabs, and sign Afinegenov, or whatever else is left at the bottom of the barrel.
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 28, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions
Paul kariya for 1 mil, PP specialist!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
also pump and dump….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
he is TERRIBLE
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, it was mostly sarcastic. Gotta think he is wayyy too old for Burke to even consider
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
yes he’s still out there also
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Woohoo P&D
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
aside from a potential kabba trade, it sure looks like our roster is set for next season…. pump and dumps would be nice but it doesnt seem like burke will do that.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm is Dominic Moore still out thre (heheh).
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 28, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
..crickets
Truncated truclence
by Future_considerations on Jul 28, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I expect to see the 3rd annual Dominic Moore for 2nd round pick event later this season
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
pump and dumps would be nice but it doesnt seem like burke will do that.
There’s also the fact that even when it appears teams prepare to do this, it hasn’t happened. Afinogenov wasn’t traded, and Doug Weight was injured during the trade dealine so that the Islanders couldn’t trade him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
although
I guess Dominic Moore was a pump and dump…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh wasn’t he a Bruin for the entire year last year?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The year before, he was with the Lightning and was traded to Boston at the deadline, no?
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder why Pitt felt he couldnt help them out anymore back in 08, he has been pretty darn servicable for Boston
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep…he was having a decent year for Tampa at that point, I thought it was a good pickup by Boston.
"Imagine if you go see Mrs. Universe, then you end up having Mrs. Iowa. Then you might get those kind of boos." - Miguel Batista
by Steck It Out on Jul 28, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but not in 2009.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
ah
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 28, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And 2006 and 1999
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
06 was huge, without recchi and weight carolina doesnt make the final
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jul 28, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
As a Fro fan, I also think it would have been a good signing for the Leafs. Going out on a limb here, though, I bet that option was never considered. I’d say he doesn’t have the necessary Burkiean intangibles or truculence.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
I’d say he doesn’t have the necessary Burkiean intangibles or truculence.
Neither does Kessel, but he scores a lot.
I don’t buy into the ‘Burke-type player’ myth. I think that when it is available he likes players with a mix of talent and grit, but he will take talented guys (Sedins.)
Sure he has Brown and Orr to intimidate and bring the pain, but do appreciate the fact that he wants his players to be talented and tough – Phaneuf stands out, and Schenn is coming along quite nicely.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 28, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t mean to make it sound so black and white. Kessel seems more like his kind of player than Frolov to me.
He’s big on work ethic, no? That’s been the knock on Fro.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
huge on work ethic.
if you don’t work, you are moved.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 28, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the Kings management seems to have been of the opinion that Fro could be a 30-40 goal scorer every year, if he’d only try. Now, I like him, and I think that’s missing the mark on the kind of talent he really has…but that’s what’s been said.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Alexei Kovalev could have been a perennial 35 goal 70 point guy if he only tried
He is getting 5 million from Ottawa and did shit last year – for someone getting the ice time and having the talent he has.
Talent without effort is frustrating. The issue is, guys like this (throw Yashin in there) always seem to disappear when you need them the most.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 28, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I think Fro’s critics focused so much on what they wanted him to be, they dismissed what he is. Which is still pretty decent.
He has a tendency to shoot less often than people would like, but he has other skills. Great a puck protection, for example. The Kings played him on the shutdown line quite a lot. If someone like Datsyuk says he’s underrated, I believe him.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Would have loved having a guy with his skill on the team.
guarantee he would be thrown under the bus if he spent any time dogging it.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 29, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Schenn's
Adjusted Delta value worries me a bit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
sory communist.
back to the soviet sather.
by not norm ullman on Jul 28, 2010 5:47 PM EDT reply actions
This benefits Frolov as well: he’d get tons of good minutes with the top line and power play time. He’d be in a position to maximize his counting stats and then get traded to a playoff team to continue marketing himself as a player worth a long deal.
You could easily say this about the Rangers. New York was a team that really struggled to score last season, and after Gaborik, who do they really have that can put the puck in the net.
Frolov gets the same opportunities in New York he does here, only he probably feels their team is ahead of ours (probably because Lundqvist is an elite goalie and masks a lot of their deficiencies)
Resident Capologist
I don’t think it’s untrue of the Rangers, I’m just pointing out that saying the Leafs are a bad fit for Frolov isn’t true.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.