Saturday Afternoon FTB
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 4:34 PM EDT
in From The Branches
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Well I know that Skinnyfish is away but I'm not sure what else is going on in everyone else's lives, so I thought I'd throw up an FTB so we can move discussion on free agency, our cap overage last year, and other things to one place. I think the re-signing of Mitchell was actually a pretty interesting move - he was likely to get $1 million plus in arbitration and somehow Burke/Nonis were able to allow him to go to UFA status and re-sign at a very palatable number. If Mitchell can prove that he can be a valuable part of the team this coming season, where the Leafs should be improved, he'll probably get that $1 million plus next summer.
In the meantime... we still need more goals. It seems pretty unlikely that we'll be singing Kovalchuk, I'm fairly certain we won't be in on the Gagne trade, and who knows what we'll get in return for Kaberle. With it being the 4th of July weekend, I do not expect there to be anything significant happen this weekend. My hunch is also that we'll see Kaberle traded before any more forwards are signed from the Free Agent pool.
Here's your links.
- More Videos: Colby As a Kid and Steeg’s Top Ten
raskofalltrades brings us some videos of Versteeg and Armstrong. - Mitchell re-signs for 1 year at $725,000
MLHS has the proper contract numbers for JFM. - A look at 40 of the top remaining free agents
Who on this list do you think the Leafs should go after? - New Leafs
Norman James Sports on the changes we've seen to the Leafs, and what he thinks we may see in the future. - Leafs Face $1.4 million Cap Penalty Next Season
MLHS on the bad news for next year's cap. - Maple Leafs re-sign Nikolai Kulemin and John Mitchell
TML Fan Fury gives us his thoughts on yesterday's re-signings. - 2 Year deal for Kulemin
budBlog on the Kulemin deal, and how much interest there is in Kaberle. - Rumour Du Jour: Afinogenov
MLHS goes over the latest Russian player who's name has been linked to the Leafs.
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I second the Woo!
James, what’s the word on Afino?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Haven’t heard a lot on this, but my guess is Afinogenov’s asking for too much. It’s early yet. I have a feeling a lot of decent free agents are going to sign in mid and late July.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
Thanks for the update.
It surprises me that names like Frolov and Poni haven’t been thrown around very much yet.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m thinking that Poni’s stock dipped a little from his tough run with the Pens. But once teams get over the first bit o’ free agency, he’ll no doubt find a good home with a satisfactory paycheque.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
Yea, all these 20 goal wingers will sign once Kovy does.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
that would be baaaaad news for atlanta though. poor team
Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.
One more year!
they’re going in a different direction now… Byfuglien, Ladd, Evander Kane, and some of their other players are younger, with more of an edge. Although if any of their fans though Kovalchuk was lazy on the back check, they’re in for a surprise with Byfuglien.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
"Unlikely to sign Kovalchuk"???
Karina you should write “NO CHANCE IN HELL” Leafs sign Kovalchuk. Burke stated just this yesterday that he “had no idea who Kovy’s agent even was”.
And please don’t anyone respond with “well Nonis is the front man so….”
It’s over Johnny, let it go.
by Johnny Bower's Pokecheck on Jul 3, 2010 4:51 PM EDT reply actions
Burke also lies, so…. but yeah, we’re not getting him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think he lies per se, I think he’s just very sarcastic.
by CanadianMaple09 on Jul 3, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
well Nonis is the front man so …
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 3, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
poor wiggum
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 3, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Speculation time
If I may.
Assuming Kaberle is moved, and that a contending team will trade for him, and that Burke will demand his full ransom (scoring winger and possibly a prospect), who would you target? Who’d be interested?
In Burke We Trust
hmm
well it’s hard to figure out who is actually a contending team that would have interest, beyond LA. I still think that St. Louis could be interested, they’re a young team on the rise, have Pietrangelo who is likely to be in the NHL this coming season, and having Kaberle there as a 2nd offensive option on defense makes sense to me. From them I would see Burke coveting Backes (duh) and maybe a pick – their prospects are pretty slim after Pietrangelo, and are all D or G.
Maybe the Sharks are interested? I thought they would have been in on one of the free agent defensemen and they haven’t been. From them I see Burke coveting Clowe. I’m not familiar with their prospects at all, though.
From a talent POV I also think Buffalo and Dallas are good fits.
One of the articles I linked to said that there are 5 offers in for Kaberle right now. My guess is those five teams.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Clowe would be a good fit opposite Versteeg or Kessel. I don’t know what his contract looks like, but just from the on ice view it would be a nice pick up.
by bradleyhutchison on Jul 3, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
They just locked him up so I doubt that they’d move him.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Clowe was signed prior to last season. He has a $3,625,000 cap hit.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, he’d be great, but it’s not happening.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't help but think
that since the signing of Armstrong, and his links to the Schenn brothers and Phaneuf, that Brayden Schenn has to be a consideration for Burke. He seems content to use young talent and build that way.
Schenn isn’t enough though. Simmonds is on his ELC, and looking at the rest of the roster, and using some names bandied around thus far, Stoll and Brown seem likely, just to move some salary if they sign Kovy. I think we’d need to sweeten the deal for Brown, but could probably get Stoll and Schenn for him straight up.
In Burke We Trust
Unfortunately, there is no way I see LA giving up on Schenn. He’s the perfect 2nd line center before Kopitar. I wouldn’t be surprised seeing him in the lineup this year. Stoll is a likely trade piece for LA, but I have no interest in seeing him on the Leafs. I also can’t see them trading their Captain.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Brayden Schenn took a pay cut to increase the odds he plays for LA (from a must-read intereviw with Dean Lombardi here.).
I can’t see the Leafs putting together any package that nets them Schenn. Kid has same pedigree as Kadri and a cheaper contract.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
yeah
I remember reading that too. No way he’s leaving LA.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d prefer Setoguchi but Clowe would be great too.
Also: Neal or (and I know I’m dreaming) Eriksson.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Neal or Benn would be awesome but unlikely, Eriksson is drifting into Backes or Ryan territory.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would you put Backes on the same level as Ryan?
He was played at 3rd line center for the Blues much of last year.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Ryan territory, but I feel he’s extremely important to the Blue moving forward.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
ooooh
then maybe Berglund?
They have so many young forwards who look like they could be top 6, there’s something there that would help us.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Not for Sale
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Also Setoguchi is doable, but we’d need to throw in Kaberle. He’s an RFA next season and I don’t know if they’ll have the money to lock him up.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like Setoguchi – he’s only 23 and only has a $1.65 mill cap hit.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
RFA
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 4, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Im sorry maam
We still have defensive prospects coming out the ears and word is we will resign Cola for a much lower contract than kabby. The blues really have no need for him or anyone they would want to give up besides a middle of the road prospect which is obviously not something we will give up. Boyes is MAYBE a consideration for tradebait but we are sort of under the impression he had a flukey low year and will bounce back a bit.
The Fear the Fin guys are of the impression that Clowe is very available and would probably send you Clowe for Kabby straight up.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
edit
For middle of the road prospct I meant to say obviously not something burke will trade him for.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
yessssss
off to Fear the Fin to do Burke’s work for him!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Khoma I put up a list of wingers drawn from all NHL teams, based on players that scored at a rate of between 0.51 pts/game and 0.9 pts/game and are under 30 years of age.
Only 47 league-wide fit that profile and a few of them aren’t going to happen (Ryan, Clowe, Setoguchi, Grabner, etc.).
Steve Burtch made an excellent point that the list should be culled to eliminate players without size, which I haven’t done…
Basically, you’re looking at a Mason Raymond, Eric Fehr, Scottie Upshall, Patric Hornqvist type of player…
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Hmmm looking at your list now. Still liking David Perron. The Blues have also been very open about Brad Boyes being available for trade, could you see any interesting in him from the Leafs?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe? I have absolutely no idea if Boye’s would be a target for the Leafs. He’s got enough size (6’ 200lbs); he’s the right age (28); and he can play centre or wing.
He had an off year last season (42 pts, career avg. 58) so I guess the question is can he get back up to his average or career high (72) or is he trending the wrong way?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Ive read both posts
and I see what you are saying, but Brayden took the hit to make sure he would be able to fit on a roster, not so much the Kings roster. I’m sure he likes LA, but I’m sure he’d like Toronto too.
Lombardi likes him, but also has Simmonds and Clifford, so holding Schenn isn’t a necessity, per se. He also has questions about his conditioning, and says that having a puck moving defenseman will make his forwards better in the same article.
I’d wager Lombardi has a greater fondness for Simmonds, who is also NHL proven. You gotta give to get sometimes, and I think Kaberle might be worth them losing a prospect like Schenn.
I’d like to hear opinions on this. I’d also like to know what people think it would take to get him out of LA.
In Burke We Trust
If Brayden wasn’t Luke’s brother, would any Leaf fan be as interested?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
True. That “Schenn” beside Brayden’s name has to be the ONLY reason some want him on the Leafs.
by Marc Pilgrim on Jul 3, 2010 6:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
by whyevenbother on Jul 3, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear you
But in composing a nucleus to build upon, familiarity will only be an asset. Brayden was a 5th overall selection himself, which is no small accomplishment. Burke seems to have a fondness for this kind of thing, see: Sedins, Hayes, etc. I’d put my money on Brayden being a target.
In Burke We Trust
99 pts in 59 games in the WHL this year? Yeah.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Great list btw
But I see Burke targeting someone with more of an impact potential than Raymond, Fehr, Upshall or Horqvist, or taking one of those and a prospect/pick.
In Burke We Trust
Targetting maybe, but able to acquire? Doubtful.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 4, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
This is what I’m thinking a young quasi-established winger.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t the most probable trading partner, besides having a player that fits the bill, is someone with a surplus of say left wings or centers as either or would be the return Burke will want for Kaberle?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Curious
Early on I was under the impression everyone here was tired of trading away all your first round picks for short term gains and wanted to build up a young team of prospects. Then Burke seemed to decide that the time to win is now which seems slightly absurd considering people usually make that decision when they are stuck treading water in the playoffs. Now he won’t even consider taking draft picks for Kaberle and the deal absolutely must be for a top 6 winger which he may or may not be worth. You aren’t in a position to contend next year and kabby might just end up walking away with nothing in return after this contract so why is the total disregard for draft picks now considered the course to take in improving your team?
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
What we USED to do is trade away draft picks and prospects for 30 year old formerly great players who will Help Us Reach The Final!!!
Now we’re looking for trading volume for quality in young players for young players… or in Kaberle’s case, an older player for younger players.
It’s still rebuilding, but on a slightly faster clock than going all the way down to 18 year olds (for the most part, though we are quite happy to get some of them too)
few people here think Burke’s stance of “no draft picks for Kaberle” is a wise won. We’re just resigned to debating what the likely outcome of the situation is – top 6 player for Kaberle.
Also, Burke has managed to re-stock the prospects pretty well despite the lack of a first round pick. He did pick up a second round pick in this year’s draft for a prospect very few were high on. At least in this case, Kessel is a young player to build with rather than seeing picks and prospects going for old players who are no longer effective, like Owen Nolan.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
holy typos batman… anyways, Burke is bringing in young players all around the same age, hoping to grow them together to compete in a few years. Much easier to take than getting old players to put you over the hump for those first round picks.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 3, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
Burke seems to want to take a bit of a fast track, and it seems to be working. Comparing the roster we had last September to the once we currently have, you can see how much of a rebuild Burke has actually manage to do, based on trades rather than draft picks. I’m not trying to say that we don’t need draft picks, because I mean it would be nice to have them, but we’ve made some massive improvements without them.
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
by whyevenbother on Jul 3, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking the exact same thing. I actually think Buffalo is a great fit if Burke would consider taking a prospect/pick package. Kassian and a pick would be a decent return In my opinion.
by ShutUr5Hole on Jul 3, 2010 7:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for joining. Not sure if I want to swap talent in Kaberle for an energy guy like Kassian. We need toughness but goal scoring is harder to get I think.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Thanks, I’ve been thinking of joining for a while now. Quite a cool little community here. Good point on Kabs, I wonder if it would be easier to get a top 6 with a pick and prospect. Threeway trade maybe?
by ShutUr5Hole on Jul 3, 2010 8:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You’re around here enough to be able to answer that with some critical thought.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
i dont like it
but starting with Kessel and following with almost every move since then, it’s clear Burke is not taking the “multiyear rebuild using draft picks” strategy.
He appears to be trying to get young impact players 2-3 years down the line from being drafted.
I’d prefer the former, but he’s clearly taking the latter
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Its a push car
So I mentioned this on SLGT and that bot spammers ASCII art looks like 2 dudes on a push cart going down some rail road tracks.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
2011
Alex Semin… booya
Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... I don't believe in C's, but I do believe in Semin 2011.
I've actually thought about this one
but it seems too outrageous. Even still, there were rumblings of the Caps trying to move him. Kabs for Semin?
In Burke We Trust
we’d have to offer up a lot more than just Kabs for Semin
Toronto Maple Leafs: Looking at next year since 1967
If we could package Armstrong into the deal, then we could legitimately claim (in an admittedly convoluted way) to have traded NSFW for Semin.
Yea, the only way that would work is if we traded one of Versteeg or Sweatt for him, but even then, still extremely convoluted.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Caps don’t need more soft defencemen.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
kabby no
Kaberle is an older, likely inferior version of Mike Green.
The Caps do not need another offensive dman. they need to trade from their strength (scoring forwards) to address a weakness (defensive D, and maybe a goalie)
I think they needed one of Hamhuis or Volchenkov. They should now be considering WIllie Mitchell at a minimum
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
sutton is also an option for them as Ottawa wants no part of him apparently
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 4, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
you an expert?
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 4, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
We aren’t winning a Cup this year.
Sign him next year when he is a UFA for nothing but Cap space and a roster spot.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 4, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. The return on Kabs needs to be a younger forward who is either locked up for a few years, or will be an RFA when his contract expires.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 4, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
he did have a bad playoff performance, this year but the other years hes actually been at least a point a game player in the playoffs.
I mean kovalchuk was no proven playoff performer either
Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... I don't believe in C's, but I do believe in Semin 2011.
yeap, one bad playoff series does not make a bad playoff performer
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 3, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He was pretty awful last year against the Pens. I mean … we noticed him, but just because of his profound propensity to miss the net.
Shero gets an A. Burkie gets a checkmark.
point per game playoff player out side of last season
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 3, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
TWSS
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That you did.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 3, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe it’s just a small sample size. I wouldn’t over-interpret any given stretch of 10 or 15 games.
does walking into a joke count as an intangible ?
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 3, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Except when Robin Williams is around, at which point jokes never arrive in small sample sizes.
(yeah, I know, random connection, but that man is a machine).
A humour bot. The rate at which lines fly out of him, the only explanation is that his brain has a wifi connection to an enormous database of jokes
cocaine is a hell of a drug
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 3, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
he did do that
but in the same year he also did all of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjXCQNP6gcA&feature=related
now i know these are stupid considering they are very small snippets but, this is only one year’s worth. Most players cant score some of these goals period, let alone in one year.
Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... I don't believe in C's, but I do believe in Semin 2011.
Disappeared? Not really. He played pretty well. He was just unlucky to go 0-44 during the series with Montreal. Based on his usual shooting percentage (14.4%) he would have scored 6 goals and people would be talking about how he was a difference maker. Oh, and his shots’ average distance from the net was also closer than during the regular season so he wasn’t playing softer.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
But how many times does a guy have to disappear in the playoffs before he’s not allowed to hide behind a decent regular season shooting percentage? Not saying this about Semin specifically, just a general question. When is a stat an anomaly, and when is it creating a new normal? Does it make sense to base playoff expectations on regular season performance? I know everyone loves the stats, and intangibles are ridiculed, but maybe there’s a way to quantify performance under pressure?
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you looked at his stats? He’s a point per game player in the playoffs other than this year when he basically put up a statistical anomaly. You’re just repeating the storyline that the cliche-ridden media pushes.
Semind had a six game goalless streak where he took 23 shots. These kinds fo streaks happen. It’s just that he had one during a playoff series.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I said I wasn’t talking about Semin. I was just asking a general question. I also question the media narrative of disappearing players. I just wonder if there IS a way to determine if there are players who do better in the playoffs. (Claude Lemieux for example)
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh, missed the line about not being specifically about Semin.
Just look at what they’ve done and whether it’s dependent on percentages and whether it’s consistent. I think that there are players that have had better playoffs than regular seasons but I don’t think you would be able to prove that it’s something they did. Otherwise, they’d do it all of the time.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
heres a trick I use
If the player is playing better than Joe Thornton than he is not having a bad playoffs
If the player is unfortunately playing at the same level or possibly worse than Jumbo… You have a problem on your hands.
Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... I don't believe in C's, but I do believe in Semin 2011.
But it wasn’t just him, right. Everyone who played Montreal were firing enormous numbers of good looking blanks at Halak. Do we conclude Ovechkin and Crosby are playoff non-performers for the same reason as Semin here?
by Wan Ihite on Jul 3, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kovy's agent doing due diligence before Kovy signs Isles contract offer
He’s checking out real estate markets in Kansas City and Winnipeg.
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jul 3, 2010 8:22 PM EDT reply actions
From Crash the Crease
http://www.crashthecrease.com/2010/07/02/colby-armstrong-hit-compilation/
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
Looks like he likes nailing guys as they come around from behind the net. Hopefully he’ll keep the crease/net clear.
by WendelMadeMe on Jul 3, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That Letowski hit was awful. The rest seem ok, but I’m not sure I like the fact that he doesn’t seem to be willing to drop them afterwards. Talbot fought after the Eaves hit, and he kind of turtles after the MA-Bergeron hit. Interesting that in that montage, Versteeg was one of the guys going after him after the Hossa hit. We saw a similar montage of Exlby last summer and what did he do this season?
I don’t mind the cap hit so much because for all the talk of how it limits our spending etc, I think you can only say that if you know there’s a situation where Burke is ready and willing to deal for or sign a guy, but he is unable as a result of cap hit. Kovalchuk does not seem to be a guy he wants, so when he’s signed elsewhere, it’s not correct to blame the Armstrong signing. Burke knows what team he wants, and he knows how much he’s willing to pay for it. You can fault him perhaps for not wanting Kovalchuk, but I don’t think you can fault him for cap mismanagement until you have a case where it is clear he is hamstrung.
In the end, you play the game with players on the ice, not hits against the cap. Once the puck drops, there is no point in worrying about cap hit. (I’d say the same with Jeff Finger. He’s a good defenceman, just play him for heaven’s sake). Armstrong will be an ok player for us if he plays like Tucker: throws some hits, scores some goals. If he’s up on the top two lines though, it means we’re not deep enough.
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I also don’t like that in an interview he said that his favourite summer activity was laying on the couch. I hope he was joking. He’s supposed to be a joker. How will all these jokers fit in with Phaneuf, who seems like a pretty serious dude?
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say he turtles on the MAB hit, more like he was looking at the guy on the ice and he got jumped (literally, Lapierrie jumped on him)
but as chemmy said below, he sees to only really throw the body when the guy isnt paying attention
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 3, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s another thing I noticed: he seems to like to admire his hits. That says to me he is picking his spots, which is fine, I guess, but a hit like that is more effective if you can then turn the play up ice. Unless of course someone jumps you…
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know, most of those hits seem to leave someone out cold and twitching at which point play gets stopped anyway.
I confess this actually makes me nervous. Hitting is clearly part of the game, but scrambling the other guys brain to the point of damaging it… Seems like something we need rules and equipment to prevent rather than being something to aspire to.
Seems like something we need rules and equipment to prevent rather than being something to aspire to.
I agree with this 100%. But how?
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Rules about blindside hits & headshots, enforcing late hit rules… And probably mostly just trying to encourage a culture among the players where this sort of thing is not cool.
Culture change is the thing that will do it, really. I doubt that change is going to start with Colby Armstrong, but whatever, that’s fine. I’ll be the first to admit I’m going to cheer when he lays out a Sen or a Hab.
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He pretty much throws a couple borderline cheapshot hits every season and never hits otherwise.
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For some reason, this doesn’t really help improve my confidence in the guy.
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
by whyevenbother on Jul 3, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
blindside near headshot, blatant head shot, late hit on a player who wasnt in control of the puck, blindside, clean but dangerous, clean hit
one totally clean hit out of all the ones shown, thats why it doesnt help improve my confidence in colby armstrong
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 3, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he seems to be a bit reckless in his hits.
I’m all for these guys hitting each other, but not when it’s reckless & does the team more harm than good.
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
by whyevenbother on Jul 3, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yay or Nay?
Kaberle for Vanek
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
A cautious yay. He’s not very consistent with the amount of goals he scores each season, but he’s a 20+ goal scorer at the worst, so, based on goals alone, I’d say yes.
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
by whyevenbother on Jul 3, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he’d bring the goals we hope. He dipped a bit last season. His cap hit is 7.1m (salary 6.4m) which might require more bodies out the door first. I’d say yay, but I don’t know if Buffalo moves him straight up for Kaberle. It would cost us more.
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by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 3, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
So is this the Run-Armstrong-Outta-Town-Before-He-Even-Arrives Club? He throws the occasional cheapshot, then turtles, otherwise, doesn’t hit or score – and is paid way too much. That’s a serious evaluation??
Whereas a guy like Phaneuf? No dirty hits there? No coasting? No goal droughts? No dressing room and off-ice issues? No salary problems?
I get it that Phaneuf had a big big upside we’re all hoping to see, and we got to dump some guys nobody wanted to see again, and that that colours how we evaluate players – but it felt to me this week like the We-Want-Kovalchuk thing (which I basically agree with, i the price is right) had the nasty side-effect of making Armstrong a bit of a target for people’s disaffection.
If you wanna hate on Burke for not getting Kovalchuk, why not just do that direct, instead of through what’s becoming a fairly imbalanced evaluation of Armstrong (whom I like, not love, think is overpaid a bit, but could play a useful role, etc.) Just saying….
by not norm ullman on Jul 3, 2010 10:54 PM EDT reply actions
Just based on that compilation, the evaluation is not great. It worries me more that some people watch that and think it’s a good sign. It’s not. It’s not a bad sign either. It’s probably not indicative of anything. And I agree with you precisely re: Kovalchuk. The two are not related.
As I said, let’s evaluate the team when it starts playing. But hey, it’s the middle of summer, what else are we gonna do?
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re missing the point. No one is saying Armstrong is a terrible hockey player. In fact, most people would be OK with Armstrong if he wasn’t being paid 3 million. A lot of people are uncomfortable with Phaneuf making 6.5 (I’m one of them).
My issue is that you can find guys who like to hit and can play bottom six minutes for less than 3 million per year.
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
See, I don’t think that matters as much. You are right, you can find players for cheaper, but if that’s the guy Burke wants, then as far as he is concerned, he’s building his team the way he wants it, and it’s not an inappropriate price to pay.
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 3, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Whereas a guy like Phaneuf? No dirty hits there? No coasting? No goal droughts? No dressing room and off-ice issues? No salary problems?
I’m sure it’s hard to keep on top of all of the comments but:
- Yes, he’s laid some dirty hits
- Haven’t seen him coast here.
- Yup, and it’s been pointed out that he was a victim of the percentages here and will likely improve next year.
- Yup, the rumoured problems in Calgary were raised when he arrived and if you’ve been following basically everyone associated with the team has said that there are no problems.
- Uhh, his contract has been a HUGE topic of discussion. It’s been pointed out repeatedly that he likely will never live up to what a $6.5M cap hit entails.
You like Armstrong so it’s unbalanced to point out his flaws. We get it.
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“He pretty much throws a couple borderline cheapshot hits every season and never hits otherwise.”
Discuss.
by not norm ullman on Jul 3, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
Here’s the kind of proof you value most highly of a dirty hit by Phaneuf.
As for the latter, 194 hits in 81 games last season, 159 in 80 games in 2008-2009, 194 in 82 games in 2007-2008, and you can look up the year’s previous on your own. It’s pretty clear that Phaneuf does hit otherwise.
And going forward, if we aren’t able to discuss one player’s faults without immediately mentioning every other player on the roster that has the same problems it’s going to be quite the pain in the ass. Don’t assume that because it’s not in the thread or you have not read it yourself that these things have not been discussed before.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I read the Phaneuf chat. My point was in the next para – that sometimes a guy gets cut more slack, more as a matter of the timing and expectations around a deal than the simple objective facts about that guy. I really don’t think this is controversial. I’m really not meaning to be rude here – and have no history of being rude on this site – but I just think the Kovalchuk talk has meant more people being more negative about Armstrong than they otherwise would. If you don’t want me defending him, and would just like me to join in with those trashtalking him (he doesn’t hit/hits dirty/turtles) then just tell me outright, ok?
Because right now, it works like this: i) I wrote, “Armstrong (whom I like, not love, think is overpaid a bit, but could play a useful role, etc.)”</em> — and you think that’s imbalanced. ii) Whereas I was responding to someone who says “He pretty much throws a couple borderline cheapshot hits every season and never hits otherwise” – you think that’s balanced??
Now, above all, just lemme say that I think the site is great, you guys are great, I love the stats talk, I love the intangibles talk, etc. But can we please stop talking about my inability to keep up on my reading or handle stats, just because I choose to defend Armstrong rather than say he’s a lazy, turtling, cheap shot artist who cost us $3 million and never did a good thing in his career?
by not norm ullman on Jul 4, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Whereas a guy like Phaneuf? No dirty hits there? No coasting? No goal droughts? No dressing room and off-ice issues? No salary problems?
The implication there is that it has not been discussed. 99% of the time when someone uses that kind of ‘well what about (x)?!’ it usually means they haven’t seen where it’s been discussed.
Armstrong’s done good stuff in his career. Once he try to take Jason Blake’s head off. We all appreciated the effort.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Jul 4, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
When whomever compiled that video, did they just go through and say ‘These are the most devastating hits he threw’
He its over 80 times a season (not much for a third line checker, but whatever)
Where’s the rest of the hits?
Pretty damn small sample size to me. You could probably take perhaps 20% of the leagues ‘dirty hitters’ and make a compilation with either a) more borderline hits or b) more dangerous hits.
Either way, most were anywhere from marginal to outright dirty.
I find it kind of interesting that such an intelligent group such as yourselves (this is not sarcasm – best site for discussion ever) take that video without a grain – or a pound – of salt.
Also – Strong Cheese is over paid
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 4, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
edit
should have read ‘take 20% of the league’
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 4, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Thoughts...
http://philly.sbnation.com/2010/7/3/1550989/ilya-kovalchuk-contract-offer-Flyers
giggy for gagne… That’s what this article says… Your thoughts?!?
by hockeyphreak on Jul 4, 2010 1:59 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
wont happen
Giggy wont waive his NTC for philly
Gagne is brittle as wet tissue paper and is over paid
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 4, 2010 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention he only has one year left on his contract.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 4, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Errr
Gagne 5.25M cap hit, Giggy 6M cap hit. How exactly would this clear up cap space for Philly?
by CancerousRocket on Jul 4, 2010 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
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