Roll Call
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 7:01 AM EDT
in From The Branches
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Due to the extreme nature of the Brett Lebda signing (apparently) I think we need to do a roll call this morning, to make sure everyone's still with us. I got a little worried that maybe someone had run to the Bloor Viaduct in response to the signing of a depth defenseman. This was clearly a life-changing moment for a few of the Leaf fans here. I mean, last night's initial reaction thread actually saw mf37 and Steve Burtch agreeing so maybe it is the end of the world. My personal reaction is more of the "meh" category, but that doesn't seem to be shared by many. Anyways, if you would be so kind as to check in, let me know how you're doing, that'd be great. I'd hate to see anyone lose their marbles over $1.45 million dollars (oh, BTW, he got a $100,000 bonus for signing yesterday).
So, everyone on board? Good good. Here's your links!
- Summer reruns: The most popular DGB posts of 2010
Down Goes Brown brings us: reruns!! - News & Notes
A few goodies over at MLHS, in point form. - Brett Lebda Signs With Maple Leafs
I like Toronto Mike's conclusion. - Behind-the-Net Stats for 6 UFA Top-Six Forwards (best options left?)
Under the Helmet of Slava Duris great breakdown of the best options out there in free agency for a top 6 forward. - Maple Leafs Sign Brett Lebda
MLHS has their take! - Leafs Ink Lebda
raskofalltrades has an article on LeafsHQ on Lebda's intangibles!!!!1 - I’ve Got Arby’s On My Mind
Yakov Mironov posts on LeafsHQ about RFAs the Leafs could be interested in. - Do You Know What Day It Is Today?
raskofalltrades reminds us: It's Monster Day! - Famous Fans #14: Dennis Leary
Vintage Leafs has new pictures! Dennis Leary makes me laugh. Haha. - Your Daily Sign Kaberle Is On The Move: Brett Lebda
Final grade from Fifty Mission Cap: Decent. - My First Thoughts on Brett Lebda
Yakov Mironov breaks down the Lebda signing. - Maple Leafs sign Brett Lebda to two year deal
Not sure "stay at home defenseman" are the words I'd used to describe Lebda, but that's what TML Fan Fury chose. - Leafs Sign Free Agent Brett Lebda for Two Years
maple stir-up is unsure what to make of this, but thankful for something happening in Leafsland.
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Brett Lebda
Not a terrible move by any stretch, but rival GMs may see this as a solid sign that Kaberle really doesn’t have a future next year with the Leafs, lowering the trade leverage for Burke. This is a moot point if he has something lined up already…
I’ll give the grade a conditional pass pending the departures of Kaberle and Finger. Also it’s certainly helpful not to force a young guy into inhabiting the press box all season. But seriously Burke, enough messing around, swindle someone already!
It's a terrible signing.
But it’s just not big enough to single-handedly ruin our chances of winning.
It does make me think that Burke should not be allowed near UFA’s without supervision, though. His keeper should bring a spray bottle in case he goes near any Raffi Torreses:
/Pshhh! Bad Burkie! BAD!
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
It’s only terrible if we keep both Kaberle and Finger.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions
If we keep all 8 of these guys Burke should be fired. There, I said it.
I can’t conceive he’ll do that.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh God. Keeping them all? that would be really bad. I’m hoping Kaberle gets dealt soon…like really soon.
"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!
by whyevenbother on Jul 8, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
But it’s just not big enough to single-handedly ruin our chances of winning.
Armstrong, Lebda and Finger combine for a cap hit of $8,000,000.
Even if we were insane and signed Kovalchuk to a $10,000,000 deal; what’s more useful? Kovalchuk or Armstrong, Finger, Lebda and $2M in cap space?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Sigh
Would I want Kovalchuk as a Leaf? As long as the contract wasn’t crippling, then yes.
I think a lot of people got carried away with the ‘Sign Kovalchuk’ campaign that we didn’t stop to consider something pretty important:
Does Kovalchuk have ANY interest in signing in Toronto?
We, as Leaf fans, wonder why anyone WOULDN’T want to play for Toronto…
Well, pretty sure there are a lot of guys who don’t want to play for the Leafs, for several reasons. And to them, I say – screw you, if you don’t want to play here than we certainly don’t want you here.
I don’t think Toronto was ever seriously considered as a destination – no matter how much the media was wont to speculate.
It doesn’t matter how much term or money Burke could have offered him, if he didn’t want to play here it wasn’t going to happen (see Atlanta.)
Not picking on Chemmy specifically, but to think we could have not signed the two UFA’s this year and waived Finger, we could have had Kovalchuk.
It’s not happening, people, no matter what we might want. Everyone can stop saying how we should have saved our money for him.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 8, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Single-handedly:
sin·gle-hand·ed (snggl-hndd)
adj.
1. Working or done without help; unassisted.
2. Intended for use with one hand.
3. Having or using only one hand.
adv.
If I’d said Armstrong, Lebda, and Finger, plus another two million in wasted cap space hurt our chances of winning, you’d have a point.
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
"Not a Terrible Signing"?
I just had a JFJ flashback )ok a minor one)
he is a whopping 5 foot 9 so we are not looking for him to be a shut down, clear the crease kind of guy. And while he might has great speed he has very little offensive upside.
It is not like we are taking a chance at an under-utilized young player he is 28 yearas old. For comarrison Exelby is 29 and had 10 less points over the last 3 years, but at least Exelby can hit people.
The thing that I don’t get is that we have some young huys pushing for time at the NHL level why sign this guy? and why pay him 650,000 more than Detroit did last year. How sought after could this guy be?
by Just passing through on Jul 8, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
He has history will the front office, he has a ring, he was constantly sheltered by the Detroit D, so who knows if he is even close to reaching his overall potential. I think Burke has a clear want to keep those kids in the AHL down there the entire year, and so is getting solid NHL defensemen to make sure that if/when someone goes down with an injury (i’m looking at you Komi) then the Leafs won’t skip a beat. I don’t think these are bad ideas in that regard.
I like to get banged.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 8, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously. I think I’m more concerned about the 940 comments than the $1.45 million per year…
Cost aside, you can never have enough defencemen. He’s a young vet (as opposed to a 30+ year old) with Cup winning experience. I’ve always kind of liked him and felt that he was a bit buried in the Detroit system behind all their depth. I went to high school with a guy who was drafted by Detroit and he told me straight up he wanted out because he knew he’d never get a chance there, with all the D they had. So who knows if he will turn out to be Brent Sopel or a d-version of Ville Leino.
Cost inside (or whatever), it’s not so bad if we are swapping him for Finger. Or even him for Kaberle (at least, cost-wise). It depends where he ends up.
I think if we get rid of Finger, then Lebda is an okay signing.
He must’ve learned something from standing near Lidstrom, right?
This signing only looks good if we literally fire Jeff Finger into the sun with MLSE’s money.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
No it doesn't.
There is a gap in logic here that people aren’t noticing. Lebda is overpaid, compared to other 6th or 7th defensemen in the league. Just because we trade away another bad contract (Finger), and one good one (Kaberle) doesn’t make this latest one any better.
Firing Jeff Finger’s contract into the Sun might, though.
"Defense! Defense! Common! Do you call that blowing!?"
I am here
I feel like crap for non-trade related reasons, but I am here.
Article1: "I WANT HER TO BE A PRINCESS! THIS MAKES HER LOOK LIKE A SLUT!"
I hate the signing… but am too tired to rehash all the reasons.
Here’s another topic: what about Colorado as a Kaberle destination? They didn’t have a 30 point D-man last year, they have buckets of cap space and they and seem to have a decent supply of good young forwards (though I’ll admit to not being very familiar with them). For those who know the Western Conference better: anyone we would want and could conceivably get for Kaberle? Do they in fact need him?
Colorado has an internal budget and they’re bringing in some decent offensive blue liners in Kevin Shattenkirk and Colby Cohen (who played together in college).
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
college
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 8, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I am… remarkably unperturbed by the signing. Maybe as I had come into free agency with the expectation that we would sign a depth D, ahead of the inevitable Kaberle trade, and Jeff Finger being buried in the minors.
To those that bothered by it, make yourselves feel a little better by remembering that Lebda’s cap hit is 175,000 less than a certain Derek Boogaard’s…
I have no blog. Yet. But I do post interesting thoughts on Twitter [@dbfinch]. Occasionally.
Lebda is just a disappointment....
…after the high expectations we all had leading up to free agency (“our draft day”). No first rounders in this draft either.
Still expecting the Kaberle/Schenn trade any minute now.
You had high expectations? Did you see the free agency list?
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
by Redonred on Jul 8, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just give me some sort of signal that any of this is getting through to you.
/waves hand.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 8:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
LOVE that movie!
…not this trade though—I am with Funnybuns re: Schenn/Kaberle for something big, and maybe that is why it is taking Burke so long to weigh the trade.
"Windows 7 was my idea--and I am suing"
Finger
We were discussing Finger last night after the Lebda announcement. I think we can safely assume 3 things: 1. Brian Burke isn’t going after Kovalchuk. 2. Jeff Finger is not a trade-able asset. 3. Tomas Kaberle will be dealt before opening night.
If you assume all three of these are accurate, then I don’t see how the Leafs are going to be demoting FInger. The Leafs are currently $1.125 million under the cap for next year with 12 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goaltenders. If Burke moves Kaberle for a top-six winger, that means whoever is coming back in a deal could earn up to 5.4 million and still fit under the cap. That would leave the Leafs with 13 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies, which is pretty much how most teams do it in the NHL.
It was said last night that Finger’s contract would be dumped because we need the space. Well, there are only two scenarios where that could be true. One would be that Burke is going to add another UFA forward. Burke doesn’t seem to have a lot of interest in the free agent market, despite his proclamations a few months ago. Granted, it’s possible he could sign someone like Afinogenov or um…yeah. But I wouldn’t go as far to say it has much chance. The only other reason the Leafs would need Finger’s cap room is if the return in a Kaberle deal would have a cap hit that was more than the sum of our current space plus Kaberle’s. Via Capgeek, I could only come up with 7 top-six wingers making more than 5.4 million and wouldn’t be considered “untouchable”. That doesn’t include RFA’s, but I’m not sure there is a single RFA out there that’s going to get 5.5 million or more.
So while it’s possible that the Leafs could sign a UFA forward or acquire a contract via a Kaberle trade that makes more than 5.4 million, it doesn’t seem likely. Thus, the need to dump Finger in the minors is gone. And that’s my main point. The Leafs are not going to dump Finger in the minors just for the sake of getting his cap room back. They’d have to have a pressing need, and I don’t see that happening. Don’t forget Jeff Finger is still owed 7 million dollars over the next two seasons. That’s a big chunk of change for any team, even the Leafs. People around here talk about not buying out players, because it’s basically a terrible idea and you’re paying guys not to play for you. I think MLSE would probably rather buy out Finger than pay his full contract, and if that’s the case, that tells you how likely demoting him is.
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
My only disagreement is you are using the bonus cushion. We now know basically what our team looks like and it’s not a Cup contender. Clearly. So can we all agree going over the cap and blowing 2011/12 cap space would be indefensible? Yes? Then we don’t have $1.125MM in cap space. Because we know Bozak, Schenn and Gunnarsson are going to hit at least some of their bonuses; probably more than they did last year.
WE ARE OVER THE CAP PEOPLE.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
BINGO. Just about to post the same thing.
If all our players hit their bonuses we would as of RIGHT NOW be penalized 4M (including the additional hit from the perf bonus last year)
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
So what you’re saying is you want our young players who have potential bonuses that will count against the cap to play like shit?
How self-defeating is that?
Resident Capologist
I said if you think we’re under the cap because we currently have a payroll of $62M (including perf bonus potential) and our cap is actually $58M due to poor cap management last year, then you’re probably kidding yourself.
I’d love if every one of our players hit ALL of their perf bonuses.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
So we just keep getting perf bonus penalties year after year? I don’t get your logic.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
My point is that the amount of cap space being used up will decrease by $6M because Giguere’s contract is up, and we won’t be reinvesting $6M into our backup goalie.
Resident Capologist
That's true, but I don't understand why that makes poor cap management this year okay.
Schenn($2.975M), Bozak($3.725M) and Gunnarsson($800k) are our key RFAs next year… but since they already have a pretty high cap hit due to their bonus structure, they shouldn’t be getting a huge pay increase except Gunnar (assuming he plays the same as last year).
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
My point is JUST LET SOME OF THIS SHIT GO.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
We have three months until the start of the season. There are myriad things that could happen that alter the roster between now and then. The amount of bitching that’s going on over Colby Armstrong and Brett Lebda is fucking terrifying. What is this place going to be like when we actually lose a game.
I’m done in here for a while. You can find me over in the CC talking about normal stuff. GVT and performance bonus cushions and all the other bullshit that we’ve been OBSESSING over can go fuck right off for the rest of the summer as far as I’m concerned.
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Jul 8, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're actually being about 3x as negative as I am right now.
You’re the one in need of chilling out. I can’t express some opinions?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
....
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
by birky on Jul 8, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that still terrifies me
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 8, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
What is that man saying?
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 8, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OURS THIS YEAR!
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
/shudder
I like to get banged.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 8, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I am going to check out considering it is July 8 and I am freaking out like it is the middle of November with Toskala over these signings.
My last thought is that yes, Bozak and Shenn probably won’t end up making any movement on the cap overall (I think Bozak takes a cut when relative to the cap, and Shenn is just about right). Then all we have to worry about is Gunnar, which shouldn’t be too crazy. I think next offseason in regards to RFAs should be fine. That and the addition of some cap space from Giggy will mean we will be just fine. OPTIMISM FTW!
I like to get banged.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 8, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
This, to me, is the biggest misconception out there.
For 2010/2011, the Leafs have $40MM committed to 12 guys. Let’s assume they resign Schenn, Bozak and Gunnarsson for a combined $9MM (that’s probably optimistic given the prominent roles I expect those three to play). Now we’re at $49MM for 15 guys. Add Kadri and Rynnas at $3.7MM combined: so basically $53MM for 17 guys. That means roughly $7MM to sign 6 guys—in other words, no one but kids or depth.
So that means for 2011/12—4 years into the Burke regime—we’re looking at a top 6 of Bozak Kulemin Kessel Versteeg Grabovski Kadri (plus Orr and Armstrong in the bottom 6), and a D corps of Phaneuf, Beauch, Komi, Schenn, Gunnar, Lebda, Finger.
Even if you make Finger disappear (I’ll believe it when I see it) there’s still no room to add the desperately needed one or two marquee forwards, and we look like nothing better than a bubble team.
Everyone keeps saying about Komisarek, Armstrong, Lebda “Meh, it’s only overpaying by a bit, what’s the big deal”? Well, the big deal is that combined, they rob flexibility and prevent signing someone who could actually make us a contender.
Lebda MIGHT have been defensible as a one year deal, but as a two-year deal, unless he’s guaranteed for the Marlies in 11/12, it’s just brain-dead. Same goes with much more force for Armstrong.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Diverting slightly off-topic, and I know it’s early and a lot can happen in one year, but I wonder what our goalie situation will look like next year. If Giguere gives us reasonable goaltending, it’s not a stretch to think he may be extended (obviously at a much much lower cap hit).
Who knows whether Gus is ready to take the reins as #1 or whether Rynnas/Reimer is ready to move up?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
If Giguere proves that he’s still got something to offer, and if Reimer or Rynnas don’t look ready for the NHL, then I have no problem with giving Giguere a 1 year deal for around $2.5 – 3M.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Making our cap situation even more dire for 2011/12 than I have forecasted.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Given the market this year and Giguere’s performance last season, even $2M would be an overpayment – especially since he’d be the backup.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jul 8, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
O_o
He put up a .916 sv% with the Leafs last year with is exactly league average, and the best goaltending the Leafs have seen in 3 seasons.
Hell let me say that he would deserve more than $3M if he put up a .916 again next year in 30 or so games.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Alternatively, since he was supposedly brought in to mentor Gustavsson, we could pay him a few million to be an assistant goaltending coach with Allaire and help with the prospects.
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
My point is
No UFA goaltender who put up league average numbers got $3M. Johan Hedberg was .915 for 47 games and he didn’t get anywhere close to that. Over the course of the season, Turco (.913) was much better than Giguere and he can’t find a job.
I was happy with Giguere, but if he gets a new Leaf contract for more than $2M it will be too much.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jul 8, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I’d like to see us fill roster holes for depth positions more cheaply than $1.5M here, $3M there…
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
And that’s a perfectly valid concern.
But what I can’t figure out is why we’re already acting like this team lost its first 20 games of the 2010/11 season. The amount of fatalism around here grows every goddamn day, and it’s really a lot to take in THE FIRST FUCKING WEEK OF JULY
Resident Capologist
heh
Just wait until January when this team loses 10 of 12 like it always does.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
In theory, the leafs should eventually win more than two games in January at some point.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
I'm saying
i don’t want our terrible, 29th-place team to somehow be constructed that players are hitting bonuses when the team still sucks, to the point that its going to be impacting our ability to sign people when our team theoretically no longer sucks
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I also don’t think Finger is unmovable. We got rid of Jason Blake and Vesa Toskala at the same time. I know the two situations are not identical, but the point is, 3.5 million dollars is not unmovable.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
We took back absolutely horrible salary in J.S. Giguere. The Leafs goaltending was historically bad so it was an upgrade for us.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I know that. I just don’t think Finger is unmovable. Might not be the best return, but we can get rid of him. I am partial to your cannon into the sun deal.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I know that. I just don’t think Finger is unmovable.
I honestly can’t imagine a situation that doesn’t include trading an ACTUAL asset along with him for a shitty return.
And I’m sorry, I don’t believe anyone will take him to reach the cap floor. There has to be about 1000 better ways to do that.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Eh, there’s plenty of time for something to happen, I’m choosing to remain optimistic.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I just think one of the advantages Leafs had this offseason was cap flexibility (& salary flexibility) in case a team that WAS cap crunched would need to unload.
We’ve clearly lost that advantage.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Yea, and it’s not like we have a top six forward and promising prospect to show for it.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Not arguing the Versteeg trade, that was exactly the type of move I wanted to see from Burke – he did use the cap to his advantage. But I have to believe there are other opportunities from other cap-constrained teams in need of relief later on this summer that could have had similar advantages.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
I know, but we did use that advantage already. We may have lost it but it isn’t like we have nothing to show for it.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Trades r coming.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon
by Biff Carrington on Jul 8, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
As of right now, the Leafs have $57.626 million in base salary on the cap right now. Up to $4.455 million in bonuses are covered by the bonus cushion.
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
Bonus cushion isn’t free money. If players hit those bonuses (and to re-emphasize, I hope they do) we are OVER the cap.
Bonus cushion isn’t free space.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
You think the Leafs are going to dump 7 million dollars in the minors for 1.4 million in cap space?
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
No, which is exactly why I’m not certain Finger will be buried. Not saying that. That’s more the reason why I’m worried why we’re pushing up against the cap and we’re going to hit that stupid perf bonus penalty AGAIN.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
The Leafs are one of the few teams that are going to spend to the cap ceiling every year. If that’s the case, you better get used to performance bonus penalties, because they’re going to get one every time they have a player on an ELC
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
I invented the piano-key necktie! I invented it!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
?
Did somebody mention “buisness”?
/approves
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
I’m withholding judgment about this signing until I actually see him play for us. It could be a brilliant signing that came at a reasonable cost. It could be horrible.
He does have a Stanley Cup ring. That’s gotta be worth at least $100,000.
Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jul 8, 2010 8:48 AM EDT reply actions
I calmed myself down last night and said the summer is a process and you can’t judge it completely until it’s over.
That helped me a lot.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
THIS
I calmed myself down last night and said the summer is a process and you can’t judge it completely until it’s over.
That helped me a lot.
At this point, the Lebda signing is head-scratching at best, and terrible at worst. But it’s July 7th (well, 8th, now) and that’s a loooooooong way to pre-season. Who knows what the team will look like then. I’m not going to get worked up quite yet.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m done venting. Back to optimism.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Present
But so sleepy & tired. Playing outdoor ball hockey during a heat wave (regular day to southerners) is retarded. some might say it was the second stupidest thing to happen in Toronto yesterday. That is all.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jul 8, 2010 9:00 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Wait...
Brett Lebda is still alive?
Has this been confirmed?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
No no, I think Jeff Finger is the man that we need to watch out for. I am surprised there is not a warrant out for his murderer at this point.
I like to get banged.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 8, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is BB trying to acquire players from every stanley-cup winning team? Would such players be able to combine their powers into captain planet stanley cup?
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
With your Stanley cup powers combined... I am...
Captain Stanley!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Lebda’s the shitty kid from that show whose power is ‘heart’. Not shooting fucking fireballs or tornados or tidal waves and shit; heart.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He can talk to animals!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
does he come with a monkey?
it would be awesome if the leafs had a monkey on the bench to throw poo at the refs
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 8, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Heart is the stupidest power ever.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
You don’t need money, don’t take fame
Don’t need no credit card to ride this train
It’s strong and it’s sudden and it’s cruel sometimes
but it might just save your life
That’s the power of love
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
And if it’s good enough for Huey Lewis, it’s damn well good enough for you.
Also, Lebda is fun to say.
Lebda.
Llllllllllebda.
Lebdaaaaaaaaaa.
Lebubububububdah.
Can it before I drive this truculence through your faceulence and put you in an ambulance.
by Brunswick Bruiser on Jul 8, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
PRESENT!
hey guys hope everyone doing well. i’ve been working a shit ton so i haven’t had much chance to come online and post much, just been reading the links.
:)
Is that the kid you want? Follow me on Twitter
YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
WEEEEEEE!!!!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Brett Lebda = Ian White.
For the sake of just irritating the shit out of people (including myself), the obvious comparator to Lebda is… Ian White. Both are small defensemen. Roughly same age. Both known as good skaters. Neither are big brawlers. Neither clear the crease like Pronger. White has the better shot. Both occasionally wander off on rushes, make surprising turnovers.
White was a fave of mine, high energy, refusal to quit, tache, big shot. No idea whether Lebda plays with any spirit or not. But then again… that’s an intangible.
Salary of White versus Lebda? You tell me. But either one would probably be our 4-6th D.
by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 10:00 AM EDT reply actions
That was my first impression, too. Little guy who can provide some mobility. Can he grow a moustache? Time will tell.
Can it before I drive this truculence through your faceulence and put you in an ambulance.
by Brunswick Bruiser on Jul 8, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
If he can do what White did (start out as the 7th D and power his way into our hearts with his awesome play/mustache) then I’ll be ecstatic.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
actually this gives me an idea
I got it from a comment on the Red Wings “Abel to Yzerman” site, re: the Lebda departure:
“Great. Now who’s going to be the whipping boy?”
Maybe that’s Lebda’s purpose. He’s a guy the fans will be able to dump on (with Toskala’s departure, we needed someone.) This will spare some of the younger prospects some of the glare of the intense fan/media attention, and subsequent bashing for their inevitable screwups.
We’ll never know how much Schenn’s early NHL start damaged his potential.
by Peter de Chatham on Jul 8, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
We can always use new whipping boys. They are falling like flies.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
CollllllllllllllllllllllllllBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
No team can get by with just one whipping boy. I think Burke knows this.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
He’ll also be double Ian White with half of the offence and no chance to show it if it’s been dormant.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I wondered that, but what’s White gonna get paid this year? And also, considering White’s PP time and overall ice-time, not sure he’s twice the offensive player.
He may not get a lot of minutes in Toronto, but I’m sure part of this is to see how dormant he has been in Detroit – playing in the shadow of big-name Cup-winners etc.
by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
White is going to arbitration and will likely get $3M+
Ville Leino is a best case outcome for what happens to Lebda although I don’t expect a big change in how he’s deployed between Toronto and Detroit.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Present
A little worse for wear after last night, but only because I was out feeding the trolls a little too much.
I am not thrilled by this signing, but I am curious to see what is in the pipeline from Burke and co. I have to say though, I am looking forward to see the Marlies, I think they are going to be looking pretty good at the least.
I like to get banged.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 8, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
All future leaf contracts need to have an “Awesome moustache” bonus clause.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Watch as Kadri shows up with a Lanny MacDonald special.
Can it before I drive this truculence through your faceulence and put you in an ambulance.
by Brunswick Bruiser on Jul 8, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
SOMEONE PHOTOSHOP THIS>
I like to get banged.
by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 8, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
If you can't trade kaberle for a top-six forward...
Then he should just play forward. He has all the characteristics of a leafs forward.
1. Can score points.
2. Has a K in his name.
3. Can be shuffled between any number of lines, and unlike most forwards, can even play on defense pairings too! (allowing for 50% more line shuffling!)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Hmm I wonder if Burke was subtly trying to tell us this would happen the whole time… turning Kaberle into a Top 6 Forward… I always figured he meant through trade.
Gasp.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, why do you think Kaberle’s been so quiet lately?
Super-secret forward training… that’s why.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
(I know this has already been statistically refuted but I'm going to say it anyway)
Maybe he’ll finally learn to SHOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Suggested reaction to Lebda
1) Light hair on fire, throw rock out of window and jump out screaming “damn you Lebda!!!” as I plummet to my death
2) Wait until October to see what happens during…you know, actual games and stuff
3) Order my Lebda sweater collection (home, away, third)
4) Put my lawn chair in front of the HHOF now for the Lebda induction ceremony in 2025.
The Maple Leafs and golf- making me insane since 1985.
3 and 4, followed by 1
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
You lookin’ to pick up some Lebda sweaters, cheap?
by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
If you start at 4 and move up to 1, you can actually do all of the above.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Kidk here but 32 degrees in PTBO, keyboard mel07i6ng 98713rnlfaopg.l[OJFG
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
Hey sup
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wes says “What’s hup?”
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
by kidkawartha on Jul 8, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s Wesley Sneijder. Good luck getting Chemmy or Karina worked up about it.
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
pst
I have no power.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m a little worked up about it, if you know what I’m saying.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
one more game, guys….
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
WESLEY SNEIJDER NEEDS NO TITLE
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Were you trying to hide this picture?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Get off the ledge!
I am happy with the Lebda signing. That’s affordable solid defence for two seasons. As far as salary cap, why do people assume that this entire team will be here still by next year or even February? This is an organic process. Komisarek and Beauchemin were signed before knowing Phaneuf would be coming. I think either of these players could be gone, maybe as soon as this week. Lots of good defence coming up from the minors means that Toronto could dispatch expensive veteran defence next summer and make lots of room for signings. Giguere might end up being the #1 guy and Gustavsson not even on the team. Kadri might get traded tomorrow.
When did we all become so enthralled with cap equations and weird statistics?
heh
When did we all become so enthralled with cap equations and weird statistics?
I gotta say, this free agency period has made me a fan of Blurr’s whole “what if we didn’t know how much they were paid” theory.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
If there wasn’t a hard cap in hockey that would be a reasonable position to take.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’m just sick of arguing about how much someone should be paid.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
so I’ve stopped
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
People talk about salaries a lot because under this CBA they’re very very important.
In football you can cut players. In baseball you can pay the luxury tax. In hockey you can’t do either; if we sign someone to a bad contract they can’t just disappear.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Buyouts are rediculously cheap for young players, but otherwise, yes.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
the words “buyout” and “ridiculously cheap” should never be used in reference to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Ever.
From a hockey perspective, if we need to get rid of money, it is always a 100% better move to bury someone in the AHL. Burying bad money in the AHL doesn’t eat into cap space. Buying out bad money does.
If the Leafs buy someone out ever, I will be pissed, because that’s a MLSE financial decision, not a hockey one
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I understand why people do it.
Just saying I don’t enjoy it… so I’ve decided to stay out of it.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, I get that. I’m just saying that this is a forum for discussion of the Leafs and if we get to the heart of the matter it comes down to dollars and cents in a hard cap league.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
you’re looking at the big picture, which is totally fine. Some like to look at the little picture. Obviously some people are going to enjoy that, and some aren’t
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
I’m sick of the days when it didn’t matter because you just paid whatever the hell you wanted. If the Leafs had signed Lebda to a $12M/yr contract in 2002 who would have REALLY cared beyond the usual “Athletes make too much money!”
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Agree, look at a player relative to his cap hit has made discussion and the use of advanced stats a whole lot more important.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The whole discussion is about finding value. If a guy is getting overpaid, it’s a lot more of an issue than it was pre-cap. Ditto for finding players to outperform their contracts.
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
i am intrigued by this
I didn’t like the Komi contract when it was signed, and was marginally OK with the Beauchemin one.
I’d be surprised if Burke moved one of his marquee signings within a year of signing them, but you’re right, maybe Phaneuf becoming available wasn’t in the plans, and he’s adjusting on the fly here.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
The best thing about the Lebda signing: I used to perpetually confuse him with Andreas Lilja. Now that they are on different teams, I won’t. Yay!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
Here. Said all that I wanted to say over at the PPP post about this signing. No problems with it. Kabby soon gone hopefully along with Finger.
Lebda going to do very well for us. Cup winner, smooth skater. Will be fine. Will surprise in a good way.
Gotta get a scorer and get Finger’s contract off the books one way or another. Burke and Nonis will ice a better team than what we have right now come October.
Still horribly worried about our goaltending.
I’m not so worried about goaltending, especially when you look at the two guys who were in net for the finals. Times have changed when Nabakov and Turco are looking for work (and can’t find it in the NHL). I think having a goat like Toskala is one side of the spectrum, but if you can get even just very good goaltending you can win a lot of games – so long as you have good D and good checking forwards and a team commitment to taking care of your own end.
I am just gun shy man. I defended Toskala to the death last year, and lost a lot of money betting with Habs friends that the Leafs would finish ahead of them last year. I blame a lot of that on Toskala and the sheer volume of disappointing performances from players like Beauchemin, Komisarek, Grabovski etc……. that surprised me. Finished 14 points back of Montreal, they finish 19th but man my Montreal friends act like we are years behind them. Ridiculous.
Gus and Giggy worry me. They just were not consistent enough for my liking last year. Flashes of excellence followed by, well, this word meh that seems to be popular on the net now. That is it. Too much meh from Gus and Giggy.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I think when you look at the Leafs record last year after Giggy and Gustavsson were the two goalies, you’ll be happy. It was a winning record. The Leafs have done nothing but add two good penalty killers (Armstrong and Versteeg), and Komisarek will also be healthy as will Phill Kessel. On paper, the team should be better.
When I speak with my Habs buddies I tell them this:
If the Leafs merely play .500 hockey over their first 20 games instead of losing most of them, Toronto would have had 16 more points or so in the standings. That’s not much to ask is it, playing .500 over that first stretch of games?
Habs and Sens will finish behind us in the standings this season. I’ve bet money on it so it has to happen!!
“I’ve bet money on it so it has to happen!!” I dig you. I think we had a winning record after the arrival of Giggy, and that was nice but I think that had a lot to do with Phaneuf arriving in town and players starting to play to expectations such as Schenn, the emergence of Bozak etc…… I hope I will be happy bro’. :)
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
meh is not the end of the world
when you’re paying $1.35 million for a goalie in a cap world.
it’s paying $4M for the worst statistical goaltending performance in recorded history that’s a problem.
If we were not starting Vesa and his sub-850 SVP well into December for some goddam reason there is no way we were a lottery team this year. Just no way. A lot went wrong for the team to cause the perfect storm that was the 09-10 season, but Vesa Toskala was honestly 40% of it. By himself.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I don’t think we can afford to have a meh goalie if we want to entertain the hope of at least making the playoffs. I hear re the money and Gus. Giggy and 7 mill hurts though, but oh well, the price of getting rid of Blake and Toskala was well worth it. They were just embarrassing to have on the blue and white particularly Vesa.
“…….worst statistical performance in recorded history………” OUCH! WOW! He was that bad, oh, to think this time last summer I was engaged in raging debates with Habs loving friends and defending Vesa all the way saying he would come back from his surgeries and do superbly for us. Oh, how I have taken a beating for that. Just a verbal smackdown, assault and battery and sending mass cash to them from where I live was NOT fun.
BUT I won huge against them in 2006 when we beat Montreal 6-5 on the final glorious night of the year at the ACC so it pretty well evened out.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
This roster that finished the season already proved they will not be bitch-slapped for long stretches like the one that started the season. Toronto is better now than they were. Of course you have to really look at the league as a whole when deciding if we can move up the ranks, in particular the eastern conference.
So I ask you, what team has improved considerably since last year in the east?
Ottawa has added Gonchar, but they don’t have Cullen, Volchenkov or Sutton anymore.
Buffalo hasn’t done much of anything, will Miller stand on his head for an entire season again?
Boston has added Seguin.
Jersey has added Volchenkov but Kovalchuk is still not signed there and when he does Jersey will have to trade assets to fit him in.
Philly will be stronger I think because they were injured like crazy last season.
I dunno, who else has really taken a big jump? I think most have treaded water skill-wise in the east.
As far as teams that have maybe become weaker: Florida are heading into rebuild mode, Atlanta have a whole season without a 40+ scorer,
So I think the Leafs can be measured against what should be, give or take, the same level of competition as last year. Which is why I think they will improve in the standings by a margin and get into a playoff spot or narrowly miss.
Boston has added Seguin
And Horton.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston also added Horton, and they’re really the only team in our division I’m “afraid” of in our division. Their defense isn’t particularly intimidating past the first pairing, but our offense isn’t exactly deep right now. We’ll see who our mystery 2nd LW/RW ends up being, but right now, Boston is a significant threat.
<3
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
at least half of my fear of the bruins can be attributed to the fact that they are ugly.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Horton ups that pretty significantly, too.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
All the bruins should be required to grow awesome moustaches to make them appear less ugly.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
I agree
Look at Patrice Bergeron last year:
He even made the Olympic team!
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
So that’s why they picked him!!
Designated Moustache (him and Scott Neidermayer, but he’s got a substantial beard so he only kind of counts.)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Neidermayer was rocking the hobo-just-shaved-last-tuesday look.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
For that insult, Miller’s going to shut you out 9 times this year.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
and yes, i do. As the sabres are a very young team (younger now), doing nothing tends to have a positive effect.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Fair enough. I’m worried about conscientious of Buffalo, but I just don’t think it’s fair to say “afraid” of them. Development is an art more than a science, and I can’t say that I’d consider a team of developing notables a “scary” team (yes, this includes the Leafs. Toskala free, Phaneuf and Komi hit things and Kessel has proven he can score, but with so many young, developing players, they’re far from “scary”).
Boston still has Rask and Thomas as arguably the best overall tandem in the league. Combined with Horton and Chara now, and that legion of at-least-decent puck moving centers, which will work very well with their clear puck-possession style of play. Where scoring used to be their clear problem, defensive depth is the only thing they really lack now, and I expect that to be addressed more in this off season (cheaply, too).
Warsofsky?
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Good, get him tired and maybe the Bruins can play them again.
Greg Campbell can run him maybe? I bet dear old dad doesn’t suspend him.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, you’d probably like it if miller shut you out nine times next year because there’s only one way that can happen.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Ottawa will be better. Kovalev is in a contract year. Habs will be worse.
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 8, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Good stuff. I think Philly will be much much better this year for so many reasons most of all Laviolette with a full season and a training camp with them. And the injuries you cited hurt them badly. Boucher and Leighton as their goalies still worrisome for them.
You are assuming Kovalchuk signs with Jersey. Not sure. My feeling is still that he is L.A. bound.
Boston will be interesting with Seguin and Horton in the fold. Savard possibly on the move. How will Rask fare? I hope horribly.
So many questions that will be answered as the summer progresses, signings made and trades made. We shall see what we shall see.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You should have listened to Chemmy and me about Toskala.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yes, I most certainly should have. I don’t know if I had plugged into the awesomeness of PPP at this point last summer though. OUCH! Oh well.
I will certainly be listening now at ALL times. May not agree but will be listening.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 9, 2010 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions
QUESTION FOR THE HOCKEY INTELLGENTSIA.
I have a friend who never stops insisting that the Leafs cannot bury Finger with the Marlies, and not have it count against our cap. Is this true or not?
I have told him time and time and time again that, yes, if we send him to the Marlies his 3.5 mill salary will not count against our cap. Am I right or is my friend?
Now you have me second guessing myself, but no, as I understand it you are correct. Jersey did this with Mogilny, the CBA has not changed since then.
And Caps with Nylander (though they ultimately loaned him to Europe, no?)
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as I know
Your friend is wrong. Finger, after clearing waivers, can be sent down to the AHL and his salary and cap hit would not count towards the Leafs cap hit.
If he had a 35+ contract that’d be different.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What exactly is a 35+ contract?
Oh how I pine for the cap free days when I could just follow the blessed hockey and not need to be a freakin’ economist to follow everything.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If you sign a contract when you’re over 35 the cap hit doesn’t go away if you retire.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Or if you go to the minors.
Rolston’s 35+ contract is the biggest obstacle for the Devils signing Kovy.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
BEAUTIFUL.
Thank you Chemmy. That is what I just assumed when I sent the e-mail to my buddy who loathes Hamrlik and guess what, Hamrlik is 36 and is on the hook for five mill this year. Awesome. LOL
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It matters when you signed the deal. If you signed a 10 year deal at age 30 and retired at 37 your cap hit disappears.
If you signed a 2 year deal at age 36 and retired at 37 it wouldn’t.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yes just thought of that.
I do not know when Hamrlik signed his contract.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Use it, love it.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Seriously, anyone not adopting the blurr/Karina “Stop obsessing with the cap and what people make” approach (which I understand, but isn’t for me) needs to know capgeek inside and out. You can’t understand a capped world without it.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I just understand the hockey bro’. Love the hockey, hate the economics. Drives me nuts, more nuts than I already am.
But yes appreciate the words of wisdom re capgeek.com
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Hamrlik is not a 35+ contract
Spacek is. What matters is not current age, but age when signed.
Capgeek.com is by far the best place for all this stuff. They rule.
by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you sir.
Bummer about Hamrlik. My buddy is gonna be happy and I will not enjoy his joy.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL You are totally right. He will not notice, and I ain’t tellin’.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Capgeek.com is by far the best place for all this stuff. They rule.
It’s almost unfair how much they rule.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
We can, but we won’t.
I believe there’s a clause in the CBA that says (words to the effect of) “you need to ice the best team possible” that the league could use to veto the plan, but I don’t think they would contest Finger in the A.
THANK GOD.
Thank you gentlemen. Very interesting. Will be fun to gloat over ONE thing with this guy in a few seconds in an e-mail to him setting him straight once and for all.
“……but I don’t think they would contest Finger in the A.” That is absolutely hilarious. At least to me.
by Pyramid Power on Jul 8, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha, I know a Canucks fan that didn’t know about the +35 contracts staying on the cap.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
"you need to ice the best team possible"
Maybe this is why they signed Lebda – to ensure that a non-Finger team is better than a Finger team.
Following up on this though… what does that mean for Souray? Let’s assume for a second he doesn’t get claimed on waivers and Edmonton refuses to use re-entry waivers. It’s hard to claim that Edmonton is a “better team” without him. (assuming they don’t use his cap hit for a better player)
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Souray could never get sent to the minors.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
The better team argument is probably not applicable.
If we demoted Finger and spent to the cap obviously our team’s management thinks that maximizes their chance at winning which means they’re icing the best team.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Good enough for me.
/patientlywatchesthewaiverwire
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
that clause specifically mentions that contracts cannot be considered. Using the “best team” clause in this respect requires the NHLPA to file a grievance, though, and usually takes longer to resolve than the duration of the minor league stint. It would be annoying, though.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
They wouldn't dare touch the Leafs
We have Veto powers!
/flexes MLSE muscle
/ignores how they nailed us for tampering
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure but if the Leafs demote Finger to spend to the cap to bring in a top six forward they’re icing a better team than if they leave Finger in the press box.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
if the Leafs demote Finger to spend to the cap to bring in a top six forward
Please God Burke make this happen.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 8, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
For the record, I can’t think of a single time when the League has actually used this clause – or for that matter, if it really exists (and isn’t some “gentleman’s agreement” or “interpretation”; I haven’t read the whole CBA or anything).
If the Leafs waive Finger to the AHL, any team can pick him up at 100% of his value for 24hrs. If noone does, then he is officially assigned to the Marlies and 0% of his caphit counts towards that of the Maple Leafs
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Not there isn’t a bazillion LeafsHQ articles there already, but this one’s from like 4AM last night.
http://leafshq.com/2010/07/08/lebdamanias-effect-on-the-rest-of-the-team/
Also the shortest I’ve written in a while AKA not 2000 words
I don’t get this- I can see the NHLPA getting whoever is answering the phone over there all worked up if Finger isn’t getting his money, but he’s still getting his full salary, benefits, etc.
It’s not like Finger was playing first-line minutes last year. He’s a 6th/7th defenceman with a limited skill set. I’m sure he’s a nice person who is polite and calls him mum regularly and sends her flowers on Mothers Day, but we’re not talking about the second coming of Bobby Orr.
The Maple Leafs and golf- making me insane since 1985.
Playing in the NHL as opposed to the AHL tends to have an impact on future earnings, which is the part the NHLPA cares about. They probably wouldn’t care about finger in particular, unless you were trying to replace him with Martin Skoula or something.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
unless you were trying to replace him with Martin Skoula or something
I think you mean “former Leaf great Martin Skoula”.
What a career he had in the Blue and White. Almost as storied as Olaf Kolzig’s.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Still around
Broke my ankle in two places last night, but not due to the Lebda signing. So I’m here mentally but not really physically.
And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.
that cat is wily.
And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 8, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
sliding for a fly ball, caught my cleat and rolled my foot under me as i landed. x rays are awesome though!
And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 8, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Post them in the CC! I love X-rays.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Can’t, don’t have them. They’re on the hospital network in my records. Hoping to get a copy after my visit to the orthopaedic surgeon on Tuesday.
And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 8, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I “borrowed” the X-Rays showing the metal plates inserted into my arm after I broke it for “extra credit” in high school with the caveat that I would return them. I hung it up on my fridge and still have it to this day.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I'd like it noted
My decent grade exists only if Kaberle is moved and Finger’s contract is dealt with.
If that doesn’t happen, then we’re looking at a much worse grade than that.
Either way, Lebda will be seeing 10-15 mins of ice time a game, so I don’t really think he’s going to hurt us that much. He is overpaid, but so is our $3.5M No. 7 defenseman.
Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv6Ewqx3PMs
This song makes me feel better about everything…Its too nice of a summer to worry about the Leafs.
Enjoy all!
BS
I'm still kicking
Although, with all of this whining you would think we just traded Schenn, Kadri, and Tim Brent for Lebda. It still surprises me a little with how close people constantly are to the window of their apartment, or the edge of the cliff, or whatever method of suicide they prefer. I think we can all conclude that the guy is overpaid, but not by an exorbitant amount. Everybody come down from the ledge and take nice, easy breaths, everything will be ok.
My conclusion is that we need some more and better Leafs news before even more people hop on the senseless burn Brian Burke alive bandwagon.
Meh, maybe it’s just the heat getting to people’s heads. At least I hope that is all it is.
Funny how being blase about a deal and it’s implications is acceptable but any discussion is ‘whining’.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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I'll stop watching hockey before I cheer for another team.
Shouldn’t we have traded Kaberle for Ryan now? That’s why we signed Lebda right? (I’ll dream to the bitter end)
Also we seemed to have forgotten something important: Lebda was a wing so he is better then Phaneuf and Schenn combined.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
Re-post of my response to eyebleaf's post on the Lebda signing, covers quite a bit
Would rather he didn’t trade for Versteeg, didn’t sign Armstrong and Lebda, and went after Kovalchuk. It’s a goddamn shame that the Toronto mother fucking Maple Leafs are not in play on the best free agent out there.
I think Burke isn’t going after Kovalchuk because he doesn’t believe there is another player our there that is on the same level as a Crosby, Ovechkin or Malkin; and thus doesn’t want to be paying $8+ million dollars to a 40 goal scorer, when he’s paying Phil Kessel $5.4 mil for what he believes will be a 40 goal scorer. Just a thought.
And of course the Leafs also have “no interest” in Nik Zherdev.
Not that he isn’t a good player, but he doesn’t really fit the mold of a team player.
What the hell is going on? If Brett Lebda is the puck-moving d-man that Burke has brought in to replace Tomas fucking Kaberle, LORD HELP US ALL.
There is nobody readily available who can replace Kaberle. And we probably won’t have anybody who is as good a passer and playmaker from the back-end as Kabs for a while. The best we can hope for (if Kaberle is moved) in the next few years is a solid poor-man’s Kaberle. However, the Leafs right now are at a point where it can definitely be debated whether or not the Leafs are better suited to trade Kaberle.
Right now the Leafs have too much money committed to D, and a serious lack of scoring threats up front. Our goalies right now either can’t/shouldn’t be moved because of either age or salary (both good and bad). We also can’t really trade a punch of (mostly) pluggers for a scoring forward since Calgary is around the max and have nobody we can really trade for now (Sutter FTW!!1). And we definitely can’t be trading prospects unless we can somehow get another young, skilled forward without giving up a guy like Nazem (unless it’s a realllllly good player).
That leaves defence, and right now Phaneuf isn’t going anywhere, Schenn isn’t likely to go, Finger and Komi don’t have the value, Gunnarsson is not someone we should trade, our other prospects on D either don’t have the value, or we should keep and develop them and Francois isn’t likely to go either. That leaves Kaberle.
I am actually pretty sad that all we talk about when discussing Kaberle now is a potential trade. He is a very good offensive d-man, and there are very few teams out there that wouldn’t be better off having him (DET for example). However, the Leafs are at a crossroads when it comes to Kaberle, and the path needs to be chosen. And I think we can all agree that we’d like that path to be chosed as soon as possible, whether it’s a trade or a new contract, something needs to happen. I don’t want Kaberle on the team without an extension, because we’ll be hearing all year about Kaberle maybe being asked to waive his no-trade clause. And that will be a shame. And I think most of us are tired with this by now.
You were right when you said "Kaberle hasn’t changed, you have". Kaberle is still the same player he’s been (for the most part), but the Leafs have certainly changed a lot in the last two or three seasons. And I hope we can put these rumours to bed soon and we can all go on with our lives and start to look forward to the future of the Leafs instead of dwelling on an endless rumour.
I am the commenter formerly known as Belligerent Burkie
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90 or add me to XBox Live - CoolJ90
Wow
DarrenDreger Some NHL execs think Philly will place Gagne on waivers, if a trade isn’t found very soon.
Is it just me, or is this something that seems dickish?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 5:48 PM EDT reply actions
If I'm Burke I call the Flyers up right now and say:
Hey, Brian Burke here. Forget that waiving shit. I’ll give you my 2011 2nd round pick for Gagne right now, and through in conditional picks should we resign him before next year’s free agency. What do you say?
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
Hey, Brian Burke here. Forget that waiving shit. I’ll give you my 2011 2nd round pick and Finger for Gagne right now, and through in conditional picks should we resign him before next year’s free agency. What do you say?
I think every trade we attempt should include Finger, hoping they don’t notice.
doesn't work
the whole point is that the Flyers want cap space….
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
behind this.
And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 8, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t the Leafs have second shot at the waiver wire? Why trade a second when odds are they can claim him for free?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
This is true, but I’d be worried that Edmonton picks him up because they have $10M more than us in capspace, and would want to flip him for picks at the deadline.
But you’re right, let’s drop that down to a 4th or a 5th.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
I’m totally on board for Gagne, but not for a 2nd round pick if we can get him for less
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
shit, if he’s almost on waivers it should be Stempninjiak level draft picks.
And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.
by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 8, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If it meant guaranteeing that Edmonton wouldn't pick him up
I’d trade that 2nd in a SECOND.
I wouldn’t believe any of this if Dreger hadn’t been the one to say it.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
It doesn’t make much sense to me. Gagne has one year left on a $5.25M deal. Why would Phillyl waive him to clear room for Zherdev?
You’d think Gagne has some trade value, especially with that expiring deal.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
agreed
And honestly, if you get nothing for Gagne and replace him with Zherdev… is it really an upgrade?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
EXACTLY
that’s why i didn’t even believe it when I heard the Zherdev rumours. He doesn’t even seem like he fits in with Philly’s team.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
These are the kind of things that usually appear to me like the GMs know more than they want the public to know. Possibly regarding his injury(ies), or some other (dare I say it?) INTANGIBLE.
Same thing about Savard… beyond just the contract, it seems so strange that speculation encircled him.
If he hit waivers i’d be surprised… but wow.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
It’s possible there was SOME interest… but Gagne nixed any offers from teams he didn’t want to go to (i.e. teams with CAP space that could take him)
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Gagne openly said today he hasn’t waived his NTC.
I suspect that is the issue.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe they’re threatening waivers to get Gagne to budge on his NTC?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
very probable.
Gagne must know Edmonton would have first crack at him.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Yes. Which is why I wouldn’t think waivers would make much sense. Not sure. Maybe no one will take Gagne without $$$ going back to Philadelphia. They probably still want to make a run at Turco
In loving memory of #21 Chris Higgins......I never even got the chance to say "I Love You"
You no longer make a run at Turco; Turco makes a run at you. He has no value anymore.
I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.
rumours on twitter were that he’s been calling teams…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Jul 8, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
WHOA BOMBSHELL
Real_ESPNLeBrun
Shea Weber will be named captain of the Preds tonight. Great choice.
Just kidding. Stars aligned the second Arnott was traded.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Opening Day Goalie
Im aware of how premature and off topic this is but it is something I have wondering for a while now…who starts opening day against montreal? one would assume Giguire gets the nod but could the Monster beat him out with a strong camp? Thought?
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