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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Podcast 9: Recorded Before Lebda

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We talk about:

  • The Kris Versteeg acquisition
  • The Colby Armstrong signing
  • Rumors of Zherdev and why we hate goal scorers
  • 2012 cap space
  • Keith Sweatt's chicken mcnuggets song
  • Nikolai Kulemin and John Mitchell's RFA contracts
  • No Brett Lebda

We hope you guys like the podcast because we'll be doing it whether you do or not. Is there anything we should cover that we aren't covering? Is there anything you'd like to see on the podcast?

Let us know what you think in the comments, and thank archluke for putting up with our shit and consistently doing a great job editing the pile of garbage we drop on him into a slick podcast.

This episode's musical interludes:

  • Chicago - Sufjan Stevens
  • It's Just That Simple - Wilco
  • Bad Reputation - Freedy Johnston
  • Extraordinary - Joel Plaskett
  • Ball of Confusion - The Temptations
  • Miracles - ICP
  • Something Archluke Can't Remember Right Now
  • I Know Where The Summer Goes - Belle & Sebastian

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Chemmy – I don’t know if you’ve ever gotten a tattoo but one on your balls would hurt like hell.

Also, archluke, this is one of the better-edited podcasts I listen to.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 10:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Seriously

I can’t emphasize enough how bad the original recording is that we send him and it sounds great.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 8, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

They are extremely well put together, I always enjoy listening to them.
I’ll give more feedback after I listen to this one.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Judging by the characters involved, im surprised the podcast doesn’t devolve into a nonsensical rant after 15 seconds.

Actually, it probably does.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 8, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

You should listen to it.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

This computer does not have sound. In fact, it doesn’t even have a sound driver.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s even worse than what gets in.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

just be glad i am not involved in any way shape or form

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Jul 8, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

mf37

You don’t know about Saved By The Bell? What the hell man?

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

high-five mf37

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jul 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

“In case this podcast is your primary source for Leafs news”

Hardcore enough to browse Leaf blogs but no so hardcore that you watch sportscenter.

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Jul 8, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ohhhhh….

I get it now.

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Jul 8, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, this blog, twitter and whatever Mirtle writes in the Globe are pretty much my only sources of Leafs news.

by The '67 Sound on Jul 8, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely true. It’s faster and has (obviously) way more depth of information than anything on TV

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Jul 8, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

But you miss out on baseball highlights and Jay Onrait by not watching Sportscentre.*

Jay Onrait is the only thing you’re missing out on.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

he’s really tall

"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."

by Fergus30 on Jul 8, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t even do twitter. This blog posts all the relevent twitter posts anyway.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!

by Ubiquitous on Jul 8, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know of it, but I’ve never watched it. I certainly couldn’t name any characters.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jul 8, 2010 12:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Of course you know of it, we just told you about it!

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 8, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was a solid listen

Though now I wonder how things would have changed with the Lebda signing. I mean, the 2012 cap discussion would have been a little different, but all in all that is just a minor though.

Excellent choices in interlude music as well!

I like to get banged.

by Phaneuf's Rock Collection on Jul 8, 2010 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Garnett Exelby

Nuff said.

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Jul 8, 2010 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Music suggestion

Someone mentioned you used Sufjan Stevens good call. Should include some Sondre Lerche in honour of our new draft pick.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Eff Zherdev

If my nose was full of nickels I would blow it all on you.

by Kenjamin on Jul 8, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

"D) All of our players stink"

That’s a little more troll-esque than what I’m used to here

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Jul 8, 2010 11:37 AM EDT reply actions  

Blame PPP.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice work as always, gents.

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Jul 8, 2010 11:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Well done you guys! Great listen.

You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon

by Biff Carrington on Jul 8, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions  

3 thoughts

1— well done on this. Good sports radio, to me, is at its best when it sounds like 4 smart funny guys talking sports over a few beers. Stuff like this makes up for my disappointment in sports radio. So as with giving me so much free content to read on the blog, thanks for this.

2— Brayden Schenn. Seriously, I get that we’re excited about a Canadian born scoring forward prospect who tore up the WHL. But Leaf fans obsession with him is 99% based on his name, I’m convinced. I want him to be a Leaf as much as I want anybody else who’d scored 99 points in junior this year, but it ain’t happening. We don’t have the assets to make it happen. We want him because we were so close to having him. But then, of course, we wouldn’t have Kadri. We need to move on.

3— am i wrong or is the song “working class hero” in there somewhere?

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jul 8, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions  

3-Not wrong. Flight of the Conchords as well.

You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon

by Biff Carrington on Jul 8, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Dutch national anthem. On vuvuzela.

by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loved the pod. One bone to pick. Your Zhedev-luv is just weird. I mean, I’d love love LOVE more talent, right? But if you like STATS, go run 2008/09 Zherdev vs Colby Armstrong side-by-side over at Dobber. Seriously. Zherdev had top-6 linemates, PP-time, all that – and scores 23. This isn’t a Kessel or a Kovalchuk. Plus, defensively, hitting, intangibles – nada? Zip.

And who’s Top 4 wing time do you want to take for this guy? Kessel? Versteeg? Kulemin? And if Grabs or someone moves over from center, or we get someone for Kaberle – are you seriously saying Zherdev is gonna be some remarkable upgrade?

Finally, why – if he’s such magic and at such a low cost – haven’t we seen some sorta fervour from every other GM in the league?

Talent ? Great, let’s get it. Cheap talent? Dubble dubble. But Zherdev – meh/nah.

by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

zherdev love

i think the Zherdev love is born out of a panicked reaction that there isn’t another top 6 saviour coming in.

This team clearly needs help scoring goals, so we (and I’m solidly in the "sign Zherdev to a short term deal) camp comes out of the fact that he’s the option we’ll settle for.

Not geting Kovalchuk? Defensible, based on price. But you can’t do that and then not get someone who’s let’s say 50% as good at generating goals for 33% of the price.

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jul 8, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone will forget Zherdev when Burke gets a solid return from Kaberle. Right? Please god I hope I’m right…

by sodonis on Jul 8, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes

we’re grasping at straws, hoping the goal-scoring plan doesn’t include “well colton orr isnt that bad as an option on the 2-line”

I’m moving down my wishlist of scoring forwards with each day of inaction. If Burke gets me an alternative, all will be forgiven. All but Colby Armstrong at $3M per year.

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jul 8, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Below. I suck at reply.

by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not so much Zherdev-specific love as love of the concept of adding cheap/skilled talent. Zherdev had all of those advantages and he would have gotten them in Toronto too.

Zherdev is a remarkable upgrade on what the Leafs have as the 4th winger. If the Leafs had no interest because they are going to get that winger with Kaberle, fine. If they end up keeping Kaberle then it was a bad choice to not even inquire as to what it would take.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 8, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. If he was willing to sign for that one year deal you spoke of I think you sign him regardless of what Kaberle brings.

The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 8, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I assumed “Top 4 Winger” was what Burke was after in the Keberle sweepstakes, and – if that’s the case – I’d pretty much take any of about 100 guys over Zherdev. If we get someone reasonable, then there’s only 4 slots, and we’ve got Kessel + Versteeg + Kulemin + New Guy. Sounds not bad to me, even if it’s not Kovalchuk or Ryan being pencilled in.

If people are panicking that we don’t have scorers, the fact is that the big uncertainties are more down the middle – Kadri? Bozak? Grabs? I love all 3, but at this stage,nobody’s pencilling any of them in for 80 point seasons, and sooner or later, we need some centers that show that kindof performance.

by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

We need anyone that can put up 80 points regardless of where they play. Thus the frustration with Armstrong and Lebda for $4.5M total.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

$4.5M on the UFA market can get a 60-70pt forward, or a top pairing defenseman like Volchenkov, Hamhuis, or Martin. Lebda and Armstrong will never generate that kind of an impact.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 8, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

i’d love to know the last 70pt forward that went for $4.5M on the UFA market.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jul 8, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Outside of Kovalchuk, did any of the forwards now available as a UFA score 70 points?

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 8, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d be happy if we had a shot at an 80 point player, but Zherdev’s been around, and his career tops is 61 – and that’s with lots of PP, teams willing to let him run a minus, etc. I don’t want to see him push Kessel, Versteeg or Kulemin off the ice. So, is he the best Top 4 winger option remaining, assuming he could get say 60 points? I’m not convinced, with Kaberle in play. Same issue at center. I want Bozak and Grabs and Kadri to get time to develop, and would pretty much only put that on a back burner for a Savard or someone who was going to get 80 points or more – and he’s got real health issues. So Kovalchuk or Savard, probably yes…. but Zherdev? Not so much.

by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

position is irrelevant

Typically, “Number 1 centre” has some sort of cachet to it, but you’re right, it doesn’t technically matter what position they are. We need high-level scoring talent.

somebody’s going to have to become a point a game player. Doesn’t have to be a C — the reigning cup champs just did it with their No 1 centre not scoring a goal in the final series. and he won the Conn Smythe for it. Not sure if that’s ever happened.

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jul 8, 2010 12:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Freedy, Wilco and Plasket – top marks for that playlist.

by not norm ullman on Jul 8, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions  

wrong thread fail..

good podcast btw.

.Jim benning was here..

by atroller on Jul 8, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best podcast

JUST for the Flight of the Conchords clip thrown in there

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jul 8, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Great podcast guys! I wholeheartedly agree about Zherdev. We need goal-scorers…not more overpaid defensemen.

"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!

by whyevenbother on Jul 8, 2010 1:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I am a first timer

Great podcast guys! I was wondering how you feel about Nazem Kadri? Do you think he is a better prospect than Brayden Schenn?

by WendelsKnuckles on Jul 8, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

He’s probably not, no.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Jul 8, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with the thought that all the Brayden Schenn love is because of the last name. I wonder, would Brayden still have gone #5 if Luke hadn’t hadn’t had a strong year as an 18 yr old? I would think if Luke stayed in JR, Brayden might have dropped to around 7 or later behind Larsson or Kadri. Note, I have no opinion on who is better right now.

by rpop on Jul 8, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder, would Brayden still have gone #5 if Luke hadn’t hadn’t had a strong year as an 18 yr old?

Yes. Brayden’s numbers were good all on their own, and he wasn’t even called up to play as an 18 year old.

by Bower Power on Jul 8, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brayden Schen is absolutely filthy. He’s going to become the new definition of power forward that Getzlaf currently fills.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 8, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining.

I hope he will end up being better but I think Brayden will end up being the more complete player.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 8, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously Chemmy picked the music if it included Miracles.

"I don’t know what it is about me that makes people think I want to hear their problems. Maybe I smile too much. Maybe I wear too much pink. But please remember, I can rip your throat out if I need to."

by Wrap Around Curl on Jul 8, 2010 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I think MF37 and Puckurgently handle the music duties.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 8, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Need Chelsea Dagger!!!1

And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.

by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 8, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I picked:
Chicago – Sufjan Stevens
Working Class Hero – John Lennon
It’s Just That Simple – Wilco
Bad Reputation – Freedy Johnston
Extraordinary – Joel Plaskett
I Know Where The Summer Goes – Belle & Sebastian

The other tracks, plus the clean up, editing, making us sound clear and somewhat cogent is all the work of Ryan.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Jul 8, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sufjan Stevens

You WOULD

My Goal Is To Make Each Comment As Meaningless As Possible

by Archimedies on Jul 8, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sufjan Stevens is awesome.

"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."

by Fergus30 on Jul 8, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read the list and I thought it was a song by the band Chicago. Can I request 25 or 6 to 4 for the next one?

by Leaf in Habland on Jul 8, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ooh Chicago is good too.

"...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd."

by Fergus30 on Jul 9, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

great choices MF. i think our respective music collections would have a fair bit of overlap. belle and sebastian’s coming to massey hall in october, BTW.

also…the temptations are hit or miss for me, but ball of confusion is a favorite. for years when i was a kid i had no idea that the love and rockets version was a cover.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jul 8, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

wrong podcast

You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon

by Biff Carrington on Jul 8, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think these podcasts are becoming one of my favourite things you guys do.

by seankelly on Jul 8, 2010 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I love the:

“What if his name was Tablecloth or something?”
“What if his name was Thigh or Leg?”

And thus marks the timely demise of Colt 45.

by Sergei Puckizin on Jul 8, 2010 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

As an addendum to the Boyd Devereaux hate, I’d just like to point out that his first two goals came about because Lee fucking Stempniak of all people decided to play absolutely unreal. Probably one of his best games as a Leaf, and probably the biggest reason to dislike the guy because he rarely showed that kind of effort to create chances.

by koopa kid on Jul 8, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I think the idea that every team should be interested in every player based on goals scored+salary is a little bit short-sighted. I know full-well I am on the intangibles train and I will be made fun of and you will all throw corsis at me, but you got to remember these are people we’re talking about. Not just numbers. Part of the reason why moneyball works (in baseball) is that the sport there is less reliant on chemistry. In hockey, you need players who will protect each other, who trust each other, etc. If you don’t think, as a manager, the player you are getting is trust-worthy, then you can’t sign them. And I think that all the positives Zherdev brings are out-weighed by that: he’s someone who has been known not to care. If I’m making a team, unless it’s a guy like Kovalchuck (i.e. 40+goals minimum, or a goalie with a .930 sv%) it’s not worth it.

So who is going to score? Good question. But better to wait and make sure you get someone good. Because the other thing is, if Zherdev is so great, why is he not already signed?

As I’m listening, I hear you guys switch from this “why would you NOT sign him” to PPP saying, “you don’t have to sign anyone on July 1.” This is also a good point.

Finally, I know this just came up today, but maybe the person who will score for us is Simon Gagne?

Love the music.

by Leaf in Habland on Jul 8, 2010 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

just listened to it. great job guys, again.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jul 8, 2010 10:32 PM EDT reply actions  

even though you’re wrong about kovalchuk and zherdev.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Jul 8, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's a suggestion for you guys.

I think back in the first or second podcast, one of you suggested, maybe kind of jokingly, about having a “history minute” for every cast you do. You might have been completely joking, but as a guy who’s had this team in my family for three generations now (my grandfather used to talk about the 1942 Cup win vividly and fondly), I’d love to hear some discussion of the team’s heritage.

Also, I haven’t actually listened to the new podcast yet (I’m saving it for my 18 hour road trip to Omaha this Sunday), but I’m looking forward to it.

Daniel Bard: throwing baseballs really fucking quickly since 2009.

by TheOtherAndrew on Jul 8, 2010 11:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Good suggestion

I had completely forgotten that. We’ve thought of a few segment ideas but we haven’t acted on them. We’ll keep this one in mind.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jul 8, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you aren’t yet, be sure to follow Michael Langlois’ blog Vintage Leaf Memories. He knows more about Leafs history than I could learn in several lifetimes.

I've always wanted to be a PPP Princess. You see kids, you can be anything you want to be; so long as Jay Leno doesn't also want to be that.

by SkinnyFish on Jul 9, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

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