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IMO, 5 will get you 10 Kaberle is dealt before the March trade deadline. Now he gets to call shot tho.

Bob McKenzie

Excuse me I'm off to go smash my head into the wall until I pass out.

almost 2 years ago Aen1_tiny Chemmy 178 comments 0 recs  | 

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It could be much worse. We could have Ryan Malone and a 2nd.

by samspade on Aug 16, 2010 12:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Bittersweet

Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Wes Werbowy>Chuck Norris

by antrofan on Aug 16, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this. The fact that Malone was the leading rumor has considerably softened the blow.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

so how about that kovalchuck mess?

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:20 AM EDT reply actions  

being so disappointed with lou’s dishonest attempt to sign him for such a ridiculous contract, he takes year off from hockey and goes to india to live in peace and to find spiritual connection with the universe

Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.

Remember kids it's down the road not across the street

by sleza on Aug 16, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Things we should accept as facts:

1. Burke will not ask Kaberle to waive his NMC.
2. Kaberle does not want to waive his NMC.
3. Tomas Kaberle will not be traded from the Toronto Maple Leafs ever.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:20 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

facts i am accepting at the moment
this beer is rather tasty

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thank you Chemmy. This is the Truthulence people!

by samspade on Aug 16, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

10.5 months to extend him, possibly making him a Leaf for life.

Party at eyebeleaf’s place. lol.

Truculence...starting 10/1/09

by LeafBoy on Aug 16, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

4. Kaberle will not sign in T.O for less than 5 mil

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Would you, if you were him? Even if he has some kind of insane loyalty to the team (i’m not saying he doesn’t) this could be the last contract he ever signs. Is he really going to sign for less than a 15% raise?

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder how low Kabby would have to go to get Burke to break his “no NMC” rule…

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ask for a trade.

You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon

by Biff Carrington on Aug 16, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone sign him for 5mil as a UFA? Considering the cap possibly not doing much of anything next year, the CBA still outstanding so bonuses will make the cap a lot tighter for some, and likely less minutes on a low-scoring Leafs team as it is, I don’t see him getting 5mil as a UFA.

Prefers pugnacity to truculence.

by chillin411 on Aug 16, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Look how much Gonchar got, at a much older age

by BCapp on Aug 16, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

all true.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Man, was really hoping for a forward or a good prospect

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:20 AM EDT reply actions  

and I was hoping i’d be taller

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can;t do anything about what genes you get…..but you can move assets

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

the offers weren’t there
just like the genes for height

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

You really think Kabs couldn’t have gotten a first rd pick?

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

at the minimum

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

not a good one

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Burke should have pulled the trigger…….Whatever though……..can’t do much about it now

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

meh

alternately, they now have to risk that he doesn’t re-sign by the end of this season.

think about if Kaberle didn’t have an NTC, or agreed to waive it. Wouldn’t we be happy with a 1st rounder? I think so.

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

i mean

if it was the trade deadline in the upcoming season

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

if a team paid less for getting less, no i wouldnt be mad
but a full season of kaberle is worth more than 3 months of him

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kaberle’s not moving, but the full year vs three months thing glosses over the fact that teams don’t know how the season will go.

Paying a high price for Kaberle and missing the playoffs would get most GMs canned. They’ll overspend at the trade deadline for the certainty involved.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The problem here is that….next season when Schenn and Gunnar are re-upping AND we resign Kabs……….thats a helluva lot tied up in D.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

the leafs might have an overly expensive D core? oh wont someone think of the children!

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

overly is mild…..Try grossly………..

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

We already do have one, and look at what we have for our forwards: a lot of question marks.

I would love for Bozak, Grabovski, Kadri, Kulemin et al to have huge years and score like the top six we think they can be…but they haven’t proven they can do it yet. If they prove it this year, then great. But at the moment we have no idea which way this will go.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

Burke’s signing of Mueller reeked of desperation for depth on the LW. plus, it’s not like the centre position is any clearer.

Kadri could end up having a breakout 80pt rookie year, but more likely he’ll pot 40-60. the leafs needed help up front. any help.

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

wait. signing free agents with NHL potential reeks of desperation now?
the hell?

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it was a desperate move at all. Burke’s repeatedly shown this as a viable strategy for team-building. If it doesn’t work, well better to try than not try at all I say.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

i disagree

look at the lack of depth on the left wing. that’s a mistake in team strategy

- so signing a long-shot free agent is “desperate” – yeah you have a shot of him turning him into the player needed to fill the role, but you’ve clearly not planned this out well. hence, it’s a desperation move

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

this is terrible logic
desperate implies you do something slap dash and stupid to cover up a mistake or error
this sounds more like, you know, trying to fix a problem in a reasonable and efficient manner.
bring in a guy who costs nothing but money and if he works out, wonderful, and if he doesnt oh well

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Signing a long-shot free agent is the same as drafting a long-shot draft pick, except you need exactly zero draft picks to do the first.

So let’s say it was a mistake in team strategy. What form of fix would you make that wouldn’t look desperate by your logic? Does it really matter how/where these players are coming from as long as it’s done with a minimum of assets?

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

2008 deadline, Huet from MTL to WSH for a 2nd. So 1st, probably not a lottery first though. Maybe mid round.

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матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d give you some of mine if I could.

I have a twitter.
"Victory is sweetest when you've known defeat"

by Ovechwin on Aug 16, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your forwards?

We’ll take Ovechkin, Semin, and Backstrom for our highly toyted prospect Jeff Finger.

"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.

by Leafer87 on Aug 16, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

*touted

"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.

by Leafer87 on Aug 16, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Call me dense, but what does “5 will get you 10” even mean?

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Aug 16, 2010 12:21 AM EDT reply actions  

bet $5 to get $10 i think…

Truculence...starting 10/1/09

by LeafBoy on Aug 16, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

2-1 odds…

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

well considering its twitter, would that make more sense or does bighead bob love not only the sound of his voice but seeing his words too?

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Aug 16, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was wondering the same thing.

"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!

by whyevenbother on Aug 16, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

If your angle is “McKenzie isn’t making sense” that’s not the craziest thing in that tweet.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

@garrettbauman
  
Bottom line: Kaberle more valuable to #Leafs playoff hopes than a 2nd line fwd & a pick. Lack of extension killed chance for better return.

oh brother, what a joke.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:22 AM EDT reply actions  

oh boy

are we really back to just scaping enough together to squeak into the playoffs? what was the point of replacing JFJ anyway?

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah…because that is comparable in no way at all

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

HEY

Watch your mouth

Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Wes Werbowy>Chuck Norris

by antrofan on Aug 16, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Difference is we’re scraping enough together to squeak into the playoffs with the youngest team in the league, not one of the oldest.

No artificial hips here!

Well there’s one artificial testicle but I don’t think that counts for anything.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not artificial

It’s bionic.

You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon

by Biff Carrington on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nununununununa

Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Wes Werbowy>Chuck Norris

by antrofan on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

heh

bionic? does it do anything?

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

What normal testicles do. Just bionically, and six-million dollar-ish.

You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon

by Biff Carrington on Aug 16, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

So it makes that sound effect when he makes happy time in his pants?

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Phil lapses into slow motion. Yes.

You mess with the bull young man, you'll get the horns - Principal Richard Vernon

by Biff Carrington on Aug 16, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I need to edit this video.

verbeauty!

by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

That we have a considerably younger forward corps, instead of middling to aging players (Stajan, Hagman, Blake all arguably post-prime, certainly not still developing). We have real goaltenders and real goaltending prospects. Oh yeah, and our defense is still probably the best D on paper in the conference, let alone the division.

We’re much better off than JFJ, don’t be silly.

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Our D is the best in the division on paper, but that’s about it.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Eastern conference with a scarier defense on paper? As a whole, not individuals…maybe NJ or PIT, but we’re deeper than the bruins and the flyers, better than all of the southeast, better than the Reddens Rangers, and certainly better than the Isles…

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kaberle was playing 4th/5th minutes after the Phaneuf trade, and that was withouth Komisarek in the line-up. Kaberle getting 5th D minutes is helping your team more than a 2nd line winger.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

if this was the trade deadline in the upcoming season

i swear to you you would think malone and a late 1st would be a sweet deal

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

malone? dear god no

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

i like malone, but not for $5M for another 3 years or whatever it is. he should be making colby armstrong money.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Malone? I’l pass on Malone. I want that fucking futures package he said he was offered.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why are the Leafs spending 4.25 million on their 5th defenseman when they can’t score goals?

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because we believe he can help set up goals effectively.

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

And who’s gonna score those goals? Kessel? Kessel is a puck carrying, feasts on the rush type player. Not the kind who’s going to mesh with Kaberle

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree, I think that’s an excellent kind of player to mesh with Kaberle.

If Kaberle can stop being a defensive liability (and I don’t mean he suddenly gets physical, but if he regains his positional game, picks up turnovers quickly), I think any time Kabby catches the puck, Kessel and/or Versteeg just start sprinting to the other end. Kabby with a breakout pass to the winger, and it’s an aggressive, somewhat risky play that leads to a goal scoring opportunity.

A truly great passer isn’t an easy thing to find, and I don’t think Kabby has lost that ability. He’s lost a good bit of his two-way play, but he was never really an “oh-my-god” physical player, it’s been much more about positioning and vision…I think he can get those back. The man looked good with Stajan, I think he can look good with some of our young’uns.

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha come on man. Start sprinting to the other end? I hope you aren’t serious.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ron Wilson doesn’t coach that style of hockey.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

He played a rush style of offense at least since post-deadline. Kessel and Versteeg are both fast and creative, and love to get the puck. I wouldn’t miss their defensive ability for ~10 seconds while we have the puck in our own zone…

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, a rush/breakaway player trying to get a breakaway? Madness.

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would love to watch the Leafs try that style of hockey. That would be hilarious.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I counted 3. 3 goals where the pass crossed our blue line and the red line and Phil scored. 3 of 30. Great strategy

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about rush style hockey.

verbeauty!

by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry, it’s late. Kaberle getting 5th D minutes is not helping more than a 2nd line winger would.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope Kaberle’s agent doesn’t act like a douche, and try and prevent a reasonable extension from being signed.

"Our bottom six should be nicknamed The Intangibles." -Plea From A Cat Named Felix
Leafs fan till the end!

by whyevenbother on Aug 16, 2010 12:23 AM EDT reply actions  

haha, now THAT is funny

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol…….because Kabs agents is a big fan of Burkie

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll take Kaberle for less than he makes now. For more someone else can pay for his twilight.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

As I said above, there’s no way he will sign for less than $4.25 a year. There’s no way he sees that as the apex salary of his career. If that means he’s not getting a contract here, then he’s walking.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

seen as the leafs

are overloaded at the blue line anyway, should we have just traded him for a 2nd liner and a pick?

you’re right, he might not sign an extension here for a reasonable price (under 4.5 mil), in which case he walks. and then we get nothing. not even a 2nd liner and a late 1st rounder

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

At this point what’s reasonable for us is not reasonable for him. He took a less-than-market contract in the hopes it would help his team. He’s not going to do that again, and it would be unfair of us to expect him to do so. We may not think he’s worth $4.25m at this point but that doesn’t matter because he clearly thinks he is and will take the chance that there is a team out there that feels the same way.

So my roundabout answer is yes, I would have traded him. But only because the alternative, which is what we’re facing now, is an unwinnable situation. We either sign him for more than he’s worth, trade him for even less than what we might’ve gotten now, or we let him go for nothing.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

and we need

his permission for a trade now, so option 3 is very likely

by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

At this point, unless he suddenly develops some kind of greater-good compulsion to help the team that he’s never had (and which frankly even Sundin couldn’t muster, but that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms) I really can’t think of any reason why he would waive.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

i’d take him for his current $4.25M, and more. kaberle at $5M makes more sense than komi’s contract.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

and what do you plan on paying Gunnar and Schenn>

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

depends how they play this year. and how much cap space there is after beauchemin is traded, giggy leaves, finger’s gone, etc…

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s say this:
Phaneuf: 6.5
Komi : 4.5
Kabs: 4.5 (conservative)
Beauch: 3.8
Finger: 3.5
Schenn: 3
Gunnar: 2
Lebda: 1.3

29.1 Million spent on our D corps………….Salary cap, lets say it goes up to 62 Million

Thats 47% spent on D…………and you still ahve to account for the majority of the spaces left in your roster

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

i traded beauch and buried finger in the minors.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

You did, Burke likely won’t

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

right. we know what burke’s going to do. has this whole situation taught you nothing?

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

We know that Burke is loyal and likely won’t trade Beauch……as for Finger, who knows, but he could have signed a decent top 6 forward this off season spelling the move of finger to the minors and he didn’t do it.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

we don’t have a f*cking clue what burke is going to do.

for months people around here talked about how it was a foregone conclusion that kaberle was going to be traded. he wasn’t, and know we’re back to talking about all the other stuff that’s likely to happen.

this just in: WE DON’T KNOW SHIT.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except that Burke said repeatedly that offers for Kaberle are not up to his standards and he was likely going to stay….and guess what? HE DIDN’T TRADE HIM. Burke has a history of loyalty to his players, so that part is also correct. Not everything about Burke is predictable, but some factors are.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

what about the other 29 teams and GMs? you can predict what they’re going to do? how their teams are going to perform, what personnel needs are going to arise over the course of the year?

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

jesus christ, why am i up arguing about this nonsense at 1;15??

bedtime.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

why would Burke trade Beauchemin?

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

too many D
free up cap space
could actually have trade value
redundant skill set with phaneuf, komisarek, schenn
actually didn’t play as well as burke hoped when he signed him

no reason…

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Phaneuf is an offensive defenseman. In fact, Komi, Phaneuf, and Beauch are all very different. If you want to free up cap space, might as well just let Kaberle walk. And if Kaberle couldn’t net you anything, I doubt Beauchemin would net more.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

beauchemin is better all around and signed past the end of the season, he also doesn’t have an NTC, would he net as much as kaberle? probably not
is he worthless? far from it

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

never said he was worthless, but would Beauchemin get better offers for the Leafs than Kaberle did? I doubt it.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

We’ve basically said variations on that for months now re: why we needed to trade him in the first place.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Beauchemin is younger, a better fit in Wilson’s system, and a player that Burke has shown an affinity for since his Anaheim days. Who do you think Burke would chose?

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

burke will choose whatever’s best for the team. if that means trading beauch to free up cap space to sign a forward, it’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure. But letting Kaberle walk makes more sense than trading Beauch if the goal is cap space

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

incorrect.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

your logic is suspect

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

kaberle at $4.25 or $5M is better use of cap space than beauch at $3.8M. he’s a workhorse, but he really didn’t look all that great last year.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

And how long do you think Kabs can keep up this level of play? He was incredible to start the season and really tailed off at the end.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, he didn’t look great. But he didn’t look terrible either, at least not in the second half of the season. He looked especially good playing with Phaneuf. He’s still cheaper and a better fit in RW’s system than TK. Kaberle, on the other hand, looked progressively worse over the season, and it’s apparent that RW doesn’t trust him in the Leafs zone at all, judging by his ice time and zone starts.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

weren’t you arguing that beauchemin would get less for us in a trade than kaberle – ie he’s less valuable?

and beauch looked terrible for more of last year than kabby did.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kaberle is more of a name player and brings the flashy offensive game.

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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

In your opinion do you think Kaberle scores more next year than he did this year? What about the year after?

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by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hahahahahahahaha

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

i think kaberle will score between 40-50 points each year for the next 5 years, especially if he starts quarterbacking a powerplay with forwards that can finish.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you’re pinning this on Kadri and maybe Versteeg? We won’t be adding anything else to our garbage PP from last year.

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by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

DION

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dion Phaneuf played here last year.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 12:41 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

not the WHOLE year

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

With, we’ve agreed, an unsustainably low shooting percentage.

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

no pinning. i’m just saying a lot of his points are assists… ie passing the puck to someone else who then scores a goal. it’s pretty widely agreed that we lack forwards that can score. if that situation is to change in the next 4-5 years, then tomas may benefit from that, being someone who generally passes the puck to people in hopes that they may score.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

of course, if we resign Kaberle, we likely won’t be able to add any forwards that can score

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

right… because burke has shown he’s not willing to make moves to shake up the roster or free up cap space.

Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.

by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

ofcourse…..he;ll then spend it on sand paper forwards like Colby

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

who’s he going to move?

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

We added forwards that can finish on the powerplay? When?

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Umm…that’s Lidstrom-esque.

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матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he does. For stupid, “intangible” reasons.

I don’t think Kaberle’s skills have deteriorated terribly. Yes, the Cam Jannsen hit was nasty, and yes it changed him/his physical game, but he can still pass like a champ and has decent defensive awareness.

I mean, for a guy whose value is measured offensively, we really didn’t give him much to work with. Yes, Phil Kessel is excellent on the rush, and yes, I would’ve liked to have seen more Phantastic breakout passes to the kid rushing down the wing, but it’s not like our zone play was working out well (see: the power play), and it’s not like that falls entirely on Kabby. Our forwards weren’t screening goalies and weren’t getting quality shots on net in the zone; we depended entirely on the rush. I’m hoping that dependency will change in the future, and we’ll be more of a “dual threat” offense. Partly from Kessel, Bozak, and Kulemin working well together in the zone (especially in the corners), and maybe from Armstrong playing a little PP time to edge out other teams.

When Dion’s shooting percentage bounces back, Kabby will get some points there, too.

I’m not saying Kabby’s some 60 point superstar, but I think he’ll look better next year than this previous season. And I hope we don’t overpay on an extension because of it.

by Bower Power on Aug 16, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

What’s the point in keeping a passer like Kaberle around if the Leafs only have one goal scoring threat?

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

let just call the whole thing off.

verbeauty!

by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Komsarek fills more of a spot on this team than Kaberle does.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 16, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Time to drink

Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Wes Werbowy>Chuck Norris

by antrofan on Aug 16, 2010 12:27 AM EDT reply actions  

OUR ATTEMPTS AT TRADING TOMAS KABERLE HAVE BEEN STALLED!!!!!
/slaps camera

Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90 or add me to XBox Live - CoolJ90

by CoolJ90 on Aug 16, 2010 12:37 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm wondering

…whether Burke doesn’t trade Schenn at this point.

Hear me out.

Lets say he goes to Anaheim in July 1 and says:

Hey, will you give me Bobby Ryan for Schenn?

And they say:

No way!

Then, after saying to them in August:

I’d like to trade you Kaberle and some pucks for Ryan.

They say:

No way! The price is way too high! He’s not signed long-term. But we’ll trade to Ryan for Schenn!

See what he does there? Now I’m not saying this scenario is to get Ryan specifically, but maybe he’s going to peddle Schenn at this point. I mean, isn’t Schenn basically a more evolved version of Phaneuf? Kaberle maybe was a ruse to try to get out the feelers for what was available for a young, RFA defensemen with a low cap-hit.

Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Aug 16, 2010 12:42 AM EDT reply actions  

bobby Ryan would cost more than Schenn

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t disagree.

I’m just saying by making the price for Kaberle so high he may be able to bring the price up for other guys who are younger and signed longer (i.e., Schenn).

Loving the Leafs is like being in love with a drug-addled, gambling addicted prostitute with a heart of gold and a bunch of humanitarian awards from her youth. It’s hard. It hurts. But dammit! I just love them!

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Aug 16, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I’d trade Schenn + a prospect for a decent forward

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

decent = bona fide first line

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

so you would trade schenn and say kenny ryan for Burrows? an aged iginla ? an injury prone ales hemsky?

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Boyes put up 30 again last year?

He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.

by Icion on Aug 16, 2010 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

dear god no

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nope……..I should add young………………….Like Chris Stewart or Bobby Ryan, players of that ilk

Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!

by LeafFan1989 on Aug 16, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d do Iginla or Hemsky

by BCapp on Aug 16, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

not sure i’d part with Schenn for it, but i was really hoping the crazy Edmonton rebuild would somehow involved Hemsky being sold for pennies on the dollar.

From everything I’ve seen of him over the years, he’s a F version of Kaberle. Yes please!

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Aug 16, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

depends what your definition of “decent” is

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

In that scenario, I’d say "synonymous with world-class’.

"My country is the world, my religion to do good" - Thomas Paine

by article1 on Aug 16, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

fuck it.
bed.

You may be taking Jared a little too seriously

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Fuck it.

Pizza.

Bed.

"My country is the world, my religion to do good" - Thomas Paine

by article1 on Aug 16, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alright guys I’m out.

I for one think we need a moratorium on Kaberle for the next week at least. I mean really, just about everything I’ve seen here tonight has been said multiple times already since before the draft. The things that were true on July 1 are basically still true now, give or take a Lebda or two.

Professional cusser causer.

by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 1:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Quick comment

In Burkes opinion, Kaberle is worth more than whatever he got. He feels that Kaberle will help him get into the playoffs, and lets be honest, if the Leafs squeak into 8th 99% of us here will jump for fuckin joy.

If the trade made sense, I would have been happy to see Kabby go, but Burke felt that none of the trades made sense. I like to think Burke knows what he is doing.

Kaberle is a Leaf. I’m a little surprised, but not all that upset

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
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by leafer1984 on Aug 16, 2010 1:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I want legitimate shots at the Cup for 2013 and beyond much more than I want a 2011 playoff berth.

by Nirbo on Aug 16, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

but we’ll need our 2011 playoff experience to win the cup in 2013.

verbeauty!

by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

8 defensemen

…and more waiting in the minors.
One guy has to go. $5 million on two press-box defensemen is ridikkulus. I doubt the Leafs are interested in taking another bonus-cushion hit for what should be a more serious team in 2011-12.

Possible scenarios:
1) Finger moved to the Marlies
2) Finger dumped, probably inheriting an equal problem at forward rather than losing picks and prospects
3) Beauchemin traded, probably for mid-level futures or a supporting piece
4) Schenn traded, probably as part of a larger deal for a top-flight winger
5) Kaberle traded, probably with us over a barrel, to Buffalo, Boston or Ottawa.

I simply don’t see Komisarek or Lebda moving out, due to a lost season and recent signing respectively. Phaneuf isn’t going anywhere. Gunnarsson is more valuable here than he would be in a trade.
1) and 3) seem most likely to me.

by Nirbo on Aug 16, 2010 1:30 AM EDT reply actions  

1) Chances of this happening are slim to none, as has been discussed many times. Looks bad on the GM and the organization to be burying NHL-calibre players being paid good money in the minors.
2) Toskala and Blake gone without any liabilities coming back. Burke knows how to swing a good trade to dump toxic assets.
3) Pure speculation not supported by fact.
4) Rabid pure speculation.
5) Kaberle’s NMC and the fact that he wasn’t traded when Burke had as many cards as he’ll ever have in this situation. Enough said.

$5 million on two press-box defensemen is ridikkulus

Your spelling of ridiculous is ridiculous.

by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 16, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yes

that’s an astute observation.

by Nirbo on Aug 16, 2010 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

More to the point… do you have any other ideas as to how this is going to resolve?

by Nirbo on Aug 16, 2010 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wait and see?

Resident Capologist

by clrkaitken on Aug 16, 2010 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m glad that you have so many problems with speculation presented as speculation.

by Nirbo on Aug 16, 2010 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I gave you a problem on each point you made describing why that particular piece of speculation was ridiculous. If you don’t see a problem with presenting points without any justification, there’s no helping you. I can go for a bit of speculation based on fact, past moves, or plausible scenarios once in awhile. I can’t stand rampant speculation projected over a long period in advance (ie. next season’s off-season moves before the current season even starts) that in all likelihood will not reflect the way things will eventually unfold. There are other sites for that kind of speculation. That’s why I’m here at PPP, not wasting my time on other sites.

by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 16, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

This site isn’t for speculation? It’s August.

by Nirbo on Aug 16, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t say “not for speculation”, I said “not for that kind of speculation”. Tell me how you came up with Beauchemin for mid-level futures or a supporting piece and Schenn traded as part of a package for a top-flight winger. I just think it’s ridiculous that first you name two players Burke has never given any indication of trading (and in the case of Schenn, a player he has openly said he won’t trade), and second, you state specific things those players would be traded for. Like I said before, keep it rational and make it based on things we know, otherwise it’s just empty speculation and there’s already too much of that going around.

by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 16, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can’t beleaf Burke is done this off-season. Too many defenseman, not enough forwards. Anyone who looks at the roster can see this. Something has to give.

by TheBurnward on Aug 16, 2010 1:56 AM EDT reply actions  

we actually have too many forwards, they’re just not very good.

Leafs/Marlies have 28 forwards signed. Charitably, the two teams combined could probably handle 26 forwards.

I would say there are 14 forwards under contract who can reasonably be expected to make the NHL roster. We need to move some out to bring some in. Now that Kaberle aint moving, looks like a three-quarters-for-a-dollar trade is in order

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Aug 16, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well I’m glad I chose to watch True Blood.

"I don’t know what it is about me that makes people think I want to hear their problems. Maybe I smile too much. Maybe I wear too much pink. But please remember, I can rip your throat out if I need to."

by Wrap Around Curl on Aug 16, 2010 2:46 AM EDT reply actions  

stay together for the kids

mostly, I’m happy this is over.

secondly, I’m behind Burke on this one. Ultimately (and maybe even romantically) Kaberle means more to us than he does to any other team. There’s no reason to think that he won’t play an important role on this team, at least for another year. I could see how maybe having to let him walk after one more year of service trumps getting Malone now.

Best case scenario – the market was different, and we get a good young player or two that can contribute very soon, and I would have wished Kaberle well on his new team, but I’m glad BB didn’t take the best offer that was on the table just for the sake of getting rid of TK.

verbeauty!

by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 3:05 AM EDT reply actions  

To all those who were angling for a futures package

What would you guys have thought about a Derek Joslin-plus-a-first-rounder deal?

Was such a deal offered, as rumoured? Was San Jose only willing to pay that for a stay-at-home guy like Bieksa? Was Burke not high on the kid, or did he picture the pick being in the high 20s, which he wasn’t too fond of?

Personally, I’m glad such a deal didn’t go through, as the Leafs have enough young defencemen on two-way deals, although you can’t argue with the minimum wage cap hit. I can see Joslin still making minimum wage in two years, when his value would have been realized, but Kaberle represents the best 5th-man in the league due to his PP1 status (Kuba is in a similar situation, though he’ll be QBing the 2nd unit).

I know a lot of you are trying to become Lebda fans, but his signing looks more and more like a mistake to me. The Leafs already have Finger’s $3.5M tied up in the press box, so if he can’t be moved for an equally problematic forward contract (Kotalik, Blake, Ryder if you’re lucky), I could picture Gunnarsson starting the year on the Marlies.

Either way, I don’t see how Lebda sees more than 35-40 GPs, making his signing kind of a bust already. That money could have been better spent on a 2nd line winger, like Higgins, who sucks, but at a less deep position, let alone Tanguay or Zherdev.

by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 16, 2010 5:35 AM EDT reply actions  

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