Tomas Kaberle: Master of His Own Destiny
by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 10:51 AM EDT
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PrintLast night Brian Burke let Tomas Kaberle's no trade clause window expire; giving the defender the right to choose his own destiny from now until he hits unrestricted free agency on July 1st, 2011.
Tomas is an elite offensive defenseman who is probably as large a victim of the Leafs crummy 2009-2010 campaign as anyone. Kaberle should be used heavily on the power play and given soft minutes to try and generate goals on a Leafs club that's going to need every single one.
His defensive game is almost nonexistent but if we know that should the responsibility to know when to use Kaberle fall to the coaching staff?
Personally I was hoping we'd be adding a young 25 goal scorer last night knowing full well that it would be a high price for a team to pay to pick up a power play quarterback who anchored one of the worst power plays in the league.
It's interesting reading the mainstream media's take on Kaberle though:
I suspect after the year-plus of trade spec/talk that he's much more amenable to leaving Toronto now than he was back in 08-09. - Bob McKenzie
Kaberle is obviously comfortable here and has exercised his NTC in the past. He went through the Muskoka Five business two years ago; this isn't new to him.
People, all it will take is 1 injury to an important D-man during the season to ramp up interest [in Kaberle]. - Adam Proteau
And? He has an NTC that he doesn't want to waive. It doesn't matter if teams are interested; he doesn't have to go there if he doesn't want to.
Burke put Kaberle on the market knowing full well that last night his NTC would kick in and carry him to free agency. Burke isn't an idiot: he knows we risk losing Tomas Kaberle for absolutely nothing next summer. If none of the offers for Kaberle were enough to convince Burke to break up the logjam on D we have given that risk you can bet they were probably pretty crummy offers.
As much as a lot of us want a scoring winger is anyone upset that we might have missed out on Ryan Malone last night? The oft injured 30 year old is signed through 2015 for $4.5M and plays with really strong teammates. That sounds like a disaster in Toronto.
In the end from an asset management standpoint we have to hope Tomas Kaberle really meant it when he said he likes Toronto and wants to retire a Maple Leaf. To keep him on the team he'll have to come in at something close to his current salary especially as his production begins to wane as he gets older.
For now we have a player who will probably finish between 40-50 pts which could very well put him top four or five on this team in scoring. If the Leafs coaching staff can get the power play to work we'll all look back at today and thank Wendel we didn't move Kaberle for a pile of garbage: it's obvious no one offered a young top six winger.
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Happy Tomas Kaberle Is Still A Maple Leaf Day, Chemmy.
It’s a celebration!
A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...
I don’t think it’s a great position for us to be in but I also wouldn’t have traded Kaberle for a salary cap problem who isn’t much younger.
If we couldn’t fetch a young gun then Kaberle as an important piece of a reborn power play seems more useful.
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I don’t think it’s a great position for us to be in but I also wouldn’t have traded Kaberle for a salary cap problem who isn’t much younger.
If we couldn’t fetch a young gun then Kaberle as an important piece of a reborn power play seems more useful.
This. Oh, this. Everybody who’s whinging today should be made to explain why this analysis is incorrect before spouting off in anger and frustration.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Aug 16, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's get used to hearing this:
“Kaberle swings the puck across the line to Phaneuf. He shoots! What a shot!! Powerplay goal, Dion Phaneuf!!”
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
It just happened in my game of NHL 09 and against the Sabres no less!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Awesome. Just awesome.
As much as I think this (non)move hurts us at even strength, it’s clearly going to be a boon for the powerplay. I hope he sticks around at a reasonable price (and no NTC)
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
It only hurts us if Kaberle is forced to play Komisarek minutes.
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 16, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
in playoff form
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 16, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Why didn’t Burkie do what I did in NHL 09 and trade Kaberle and gustavsson for Ryan Miller, then get Nash and Gaborik in free agency.
Because clearly Burke is a worse GM than you.
Also, who plays NHL09 instead of NHL10? Get with the program!
There's always money in the banana stand.
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by nhlcheapshot on Aug 17, 2010 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Unlikely. Teams will stand off Kabby because they know he has no interest in shooting and be far nee aggressive towards closing down Phanuf because they know he likes to shoot.
"My country is the world, my religion to do good" - Thomas Paine
by article1 on Aug 16, 2010 2:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
no Ryan Malone
No Problem
That SJ offer was pretty pathetic as well…
Hard to imagine the return Ballard got, and Kaberle not coming close to that…
yearz on the contract, they make a difference
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Hypothetically
Does Kaberle’s NTC end again at the draft next year if we don’t make the playoffs again? Burke could simply remember the 3 teams or so Curran gave him last trade deadline, and try to peddle Kaberle off for something if we fail to extend him. Not the perfect scenario some people wish, but still might prevent the whole “letting him walk for nothing” scenario.
Or, Leafs could just make the fucking playoffs and make all of this talk moot. Please.
I’ll take option number two, please.
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playoffs sure would shut alot of people up who continue to rip into burke
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by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
kaberle is a UFA on July 1, 2011
so yes, you could say his NTC expires after the draft
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Like everything it depends on the contract.
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She said ‘boy don’t you know everybody’s got a price?’”
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I just hope that this doesn’t end up like Sundin v.2.0
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by Leafer87 on Aug 16, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this sums it up pretty nicely.
i especially like your 40-50pts (dependent on getting the powerplay working) prediction. i think i read that somewhere last night…
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Not sure if anyone knows this, or where to easily find it (I’m too lazy to look it up myself), but how much powerplay time was Kaberle averaging the last few years? Per minor that is. Did he often (ever?) play the full 2 minutes? Cause like Chemmy says, putting him on for the majority of PP time, limiting/sheltering his ES time and eliminating his PK time would really maximize his skill, and could really have the effect of boosting our offence perhaps more than a young top 6 forward would.
Per minor? Like you want to know what percentage of our power play time Kaberle was on the ice?
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If at all possible. PP time per game wouldn’t mean as much to me as if he was playing the first minute thirty, etc.
So I guess the % of PP would explain it.
Though I guess I could take total PP time per game and divide it by the team’s total. But either way I don’t have those numbers handy anyway :)
It’s a kludge because obviously sometimes you don’t play the full power play but this season the Leafs averaged a maximum of 6.5 minutes of PP time per game and Kaberle played 4.21 of them. So at a minimum Kaberle played the first 1:20 of an average power play.
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It also doesn’t tell you why he came off the ice: was it because the Leafs scored or because his shift was done? So he may have played “the whole powerplay” and only played 1:20 of it.
by Leaf in Habland on Aug 16, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh, our power play was horrible, it’s unlikely that he played the entire power play and came off when he scored and that made his average 1:20 instead of 2:00.
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hah, yup, if Kaberle was only getting 1:20 of pp time because he was scoring and then coming off we wouldn’t be having this conversation. We’d be trying to find a way to resign him for $8M a season until he dies
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
And sort of going back to this: if Kaberle was leading this power play to the promised land we wouldn’t give two shits about his play in our end.
The Leafs need to draw more penalties and score more goals on those penalties.
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We had a 14.0% PP last year.
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Yeah, i was looking and i was like “The leafs scored 35 5v4 goals last year? that can’t be right!…” but it was.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
5 on 3 is weird. Caps sucked at 5 on 3 (I think their 5 on 3 efficiency < 5 on 4) and of course they had the #1 PP by a large margin.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
5 on 3 is weird.
I’d have to take a look at the numbers to see if this is true, but it strikes me that most teams get relatively few 5 on 3 opportunities, to the point where stats like success rate can easily be badly skewed because of the small sample size.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Oh yeah, for sure. That’s why BtN doesn’t list stats for that manpower.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt, special teams and goaltending are the two keys to the season. We were an above average ES team in terms of puck possession last year.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously how does he work?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Blackmail is really the only explanation i can offer. That or JFJ gave him a no-move clause.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
He would. Seriously though, I’ve never heard anyone in the organization sing his praises.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he brings everyone doughnuts in the morning.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Jumping the PP to 18.0% would see the Leafs pick up 6-7 pts in the standings.
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how do you figure?
(not accusing, I actually just want to know how you figured it out so when I use this stat i can back it up)
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
10 goals = 3 wins? seems reasonable. 4% is a pretty big jump though.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
I think the default is 6 net goals = 1 win.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Sadly, in the Toskala days even 6 goals wouldn’t necessarily equal a win
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 16, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Ran the full pythagorean analysis out.
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yes.
he was a huge part of a powerplay that was very successful the first year or two after the lockout. i’m more inclined to blame the decreasing caliber of our forward group than kabby – i don’t think he’s changed what he does back there that much.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
The coaching staff is my biggest target for this.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I was getting at in the post.
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Thank you
Think there’s any chance he plays most (or even the full 2)? Think Wilson would go for it? I’d have to think Kaberle is ABLE to, with his ease of skating. Wonder if Phaneuf would be happy with that (I’d like to think at almost 30 minutes a game he’d be fine with it).
I can remember games where Kaberle played a full 2 minutes on the PP. And I think he can do it.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 16, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Green and Ovechkin average over 1:30 per PP, I think. Kaberle can definitely do it, though TOR better make sure they’re not giving up an odd man rush the other way late in the PP.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Kaberle is already playing sheltered minutes with high PP time.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Note that this is for the entire season
kaberle was playing roughly 4:30 of PP time every game.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I don’t have the numbers, just my opinion, but I never really thought Kaberle was sheltered. He seemed to be out there a fair amount in situations I didn’t prefer, against opponents I didn’t want him against. But maybe that’s just selective memory on my part. Ideally, I’d like to have him play 3rd pairing ES minutes against weak opponents with someone defensively reliable.
Kaberle averaged 6 seconds of PK time per game. Only Schenn played against softer competition (QualCOMP -0.04)
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
By comparison, Beauchemin had the 19th toughest QualCOMP in the NHL at 0.083 last yar.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Beauchemin looked like shit because he was the only guy on the Leafs willing to eat terrible minutes all night every night.
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by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I have some good memories about him vs. Ovechkin.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Beauchemin made everyone on the team better by eating long, tough minutes.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m fine with Beauchemin, he did a dirty job and is going to take a lot of flak for being the only guy who could.
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he played tough minutes, but he didn’t do a very good job of it a lot of nights. some of that falls on goaltending and his teammates, but he has to take some responsibility for his performance.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
He did a pretty good job on average, just TOR couldn’t score in front of him. Less than 2 goals per 60 is kind of bad.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Corsi QComp is a bit better than +/- based QComp and makes Beauchemin look a bit worse, but Kaberle is waaaaayyy down the list. Umm yeah sheltered.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that’s good to know re: the PK. Thanks. Can you tell me if his ES numbers were sheltered or if he got quality assignments there? I’d assume, with him receiving no PK time and playing approx 20 min/game that he’d have to rack up some hefty numbers (16 minutes) against some top opponents, which I hope stops this year.
His ES numbers probably point to him being more sheltered than Schenn given their QTEAM.
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Well, that’s good, but also that’s how it SHOULD be, if you ask me. He should be sheltered the most out of our top 6. How’s he compare to Gunnarsson and the rest of them (i.e. XLB, Finger, etc).
http://behindthenet.ca/2009/new_5_on_5.php?sort=8§ion=goals&mingp=10&mintoi=&team=TOR&pos=D
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With each passing day, my theory gains more traction.
Have Kaberle play top-6 winger! (point on PP obviously)
As stupid as this theory is, its hard to think he’d be worse than Ryan Malone.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
If Dustin Byfuglien can do it, why not Kaberle? (Though i’ll admit, Byfuglien’s forward game plan consists of “Check defensemen and then stand in front of net”)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
I've thought about it too.
It’s so crazy it just might work!
by WendelMadeMe on Aug 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I've thought about it too.
It’s so crazy it just might work!
by WendelMadeMe on Aug 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle is a wingar?
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Just as a starting point of numbers for a re-signing
To keep him on the team he’ll have to come in at something close to his current salary especially as his production begins to wane as he gets older.
Let’s say, 5 years:
2011-2012: 5mil
2012-2013: 4mil
2013-2014: 3mil
2014-2015: 2mil
2015-2016: 1mil
Brings him through to 38, cap hit of 3.
Not enough for Kaberle? Is it possible to structure a 5-yearish contract with a reasonable cap hit and keep Kaberle?
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
why not?
burke would do that. I don’t see why he’d be afraid of a 5 year deal for a 33 year old.
I don’t think Kaberle would, however. Why’s he taking a pay cut?
Purely speculative, but I think you’d need to add $1M on to each year of this deal and then maybe Kabby bites. 6,5,4,3,2, for a cap hit of 4.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I agree – Burke mentioned on his interview with Vancouver talk radio that he didn’t have an issue with reasonable declines, just none of these sharp drops. I can’t find the interview link, will work on it.
And I agree the 5-4-3-2-1 is low for Kaberle, just trying to get a ballpark area. 6-5-4-3-2 sounds closer to reasonable to me, at that point I think the Leafs get priced out of it. Honestly, the Leafs may be priced out of 5-4-3-2-1.
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
couldn’t disagree more.
it looks like paying someone at a steady declining rate anticipating their production to steadily decline as they approach retirement. actually completely reasonable.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
That’s my worry with a Kaberle extension. It’s impossible to know when his production is going to fall off a cliff and if he has an NMC it could be ugly.
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Kaberle would never go for that….5 years with an average of 3mill per year.
How about:
2011-2012: 5mill
2012-2013: 5mill
2013-2014: 5mill
2014-2015: 4mill
2015-2016: 3mill
2016-2017: 3mill
Brings him to 39 so he can retire as a leaf. It will be a 6 year contract worth a total of 26mill which is a cap hit of 4.16
by Schenn4captain on Aug 16, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Three reasons I doubt he resigns:
- The Leafs can’t afford him — he’s going to be asking for five years at $6M a season, which is more than the Leafs can afford to spend on another defenceman
- The NTC issue. No way Kaberle resigns without one, and Burke says he never gives them.
- Lingering bad feelings on both sides. It’s not hard to imagine that Kaberle’s pissed at being put through this all summer, and Burke’s pissed because Curran tried to torpedo him this week.
Add it all up and I’m betting he’s gone by the deadline.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Aug 16, 2010 11:14 AM EDT reply actions
- No way on God’s green earth Kaberle is worth close to $6MM/yr next summer. I think he’s closer to $3MM after what happened in the market this year.
- Burke gave an NTC/NMC to Komi
- Why would Kabs waive when he hasn’t before?
All that said I agree he doesn’t resign.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Correct me if I’m wrong but Komi’s is a limited NTC, so Burke at least didn’t completely handcuff himself.
I don’t think the exact terms are known.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
According to TSN:
Sources tell TSN that Komisarek’s deal with the Maple Leafs includes a limited no-trade clause. Every September, Komisarek will be asked by Toronto to submit a list of 12 teams he would accept a trade to. This will allow Toronto to control his contract in the event things don’t work out the way both sides anticipate they will.
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by Down Goes Brown on Aug 16, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Cool, thanks.
Wonder about the NMC part of it. Presumably forbids the AHL solution.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
gonchar got $5.5M a year for 3 years at age 36 and after spending the last couple of years battling injuries. $6M is insane for kabby, but i don’t think it’s out of the question that someone overspends, especially if next year’s UFA crop is weak.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
gonchar also has a cannon from the point. kaberle as PP QB is more one-dimensional even when compared to gonchar from a purely PP perspective.
(as opposed to all this, the purely PPP perspective :P )
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 16, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
I agree with everything Chemmy says here… which is unusual for me. But Kaberle should be given every opportunity to pad his stats this year, and with the depth on defense he can definitely be sheltered.
A full year of Kaberle/Phaneuf on the Power Play has kinda got me giddy.
And yes, if Ryan Malone was the best offer on the table, keeping Kaberle, even at the risk of him walking, makes sense. If Kaberle can’t help the Leafs’ score enough to get into the playoffs, then having that $4.5 mill in cap space that Malone would’ve taken up next summer is far more valuable than anything Malone could do for us.
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by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
A full year of Kaberle/Phaneuf on the Power Play has kinda got me giddy.
It didn’t look great for 30 games last season.
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Leave me to my delusions.
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by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Been saying it for a long time, I’d double shift him at evens to get him away from other team’s top shutdown guys.
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oh god
the Kessel to Kaberle black hole… /shudders
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
the left wing self lock
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
id prefer versteeg on the left side with kessel in tuckers old spot…..
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
id prefer versteeg on the left side with kessel in tuckers old spot…..
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
kessel doesnt strike me as a tap in type
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
but marc savard fed him tap ins all season 2 years ago.
but seriously, its just a thought… i saw versteeg do some pretty awesome stuff from the left side on the PP in the playoffs last season, maybe keep kessel on the left side on the 2nd PP unit then. Kessel doesnt seem like the tap in type to me either, but I still think he’d be pretty good at it, the guy has pretty soft hands. The coaching staff have alot to work on nonetheless…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
but marc savard fed him tap ins all season 2 years ago.
Please don't act like this comment is important
oh i know! it was suppsoed to be sarcastic
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
- Not saying that’s what he’s worth, I’m saying it’s what his starting point will be. And let’s face it, he’s spent the last four years hearing about how underpaid he is. You really think he’d even consider signing for less than what he makes now?
- Komi’s NTC is super-limited… something like three teams.
- He may not. In which case he walks for nothing. Great job, Burke.
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by Down Goes Brown on Aug 16, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
Reply fail… was responding to 67’s points above.
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by Down Goes Brown on Aug 16, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Soft minutes, hard minutes, middle of the road minutes
If you’re getting 40-50 points out of a defender, that’s a good thing.
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by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions
Okay for all this Kaberle is a winger talk...
I’ve never really played the game too much, so could someone who coaches/plays/knows what they’re talking about, let me know if this is actually a feasible idea? or is it strictly the kind of thing people dream up in NHL10
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
yeah, we should move him to center
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea what i’m talking about but it seems pretty crazy to think you can take a 32 year old defenseman who’s already been in the NHL for something like 10 years and suddenly make him play forward.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs have done it twice in their history! Wendel Clarke! Red Kelley!
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Ian White was a tenacious, scrappy forward. Worked well for him.
by general borschevsky on Aug 16, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Todd Gill played forward for a while, Nate Dempsey, even Tim Horton.
Other than Clark, the most successful conversion was probably Gary Leeman
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
oh man Nathan Dempsey.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
No love for Ken Baumgartner?
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Aug 16, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
or Belak
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Aug 17, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
The defensive versus offensive mindset is completely engrained in a player’s mind; even as young as 9 or 10. On my squirt team, you could easily tell early on which kids would play up or back. It’s really really difficult for a player to switch because it’s who they are.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Yeah, Red Kelly’s the only example I can think of for a guy in his 30s doing it. And that was a different era, and Kelly was a pretty freaking special player.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Only if your first name is Ian.
Change his name to Ian Kaberle and he should fit right in as a forward.
PRECEDENT!!1
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe not the right forum
but in reading QUALCOMP and QAULTEAM stats, what do those numbers represent, and to what degree should one see when it comes to variances player to player.
looking at d-men with 30+ games and a minimum of 10 mins ATOI, the variance between the best (hardest QUALCOMP) of Mike Lundin’s 0.150 and Chris Campoli’s worst of (-0.123) means what exactly? Is Mike Lundin the best defender in the league? Also, who is Mike Lundin…?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 11:38 AM EDT reply actions
CHocolate Sundin!! (I believe Lundin plays for Tampa)
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
thanks
that much I gathered…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m always glad to be helpful :P
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s an average of opposing players’ +/- I believe. Corsi QoC is average of opposing players’ corsis, and therefore generally regarded as the better measure.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 16, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
It has nothing to do with who’s the best or worst defending at all. It’s a measurement of who plays against the toughest competition.
For example, if your Chris Pronger and you’re going up the best offensive players of the opposition every night, your QualComp will be higher
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
i understand that
but what do the numbers represent, and if they’re in degrees, does a variance of a few hundredths of a degree mean all that much?
(maybe that’s a better way of wording my question)
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
i think i will. I see these numbers thrown around in context, and understand what’s trying to be said, but i’m just wondering if a difference of 0.05 or more (just taking a number at random here…) tells you anything, or if the variance needs to be bigger.
i guess i could do the work myself to find the statistical outliers and such, but i was hoping for a clean easy answer from folks here. i just don’t like seeing stats thrown around without my having an understanding on their intricacies.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the FAQ from Behind the Net. But yes, getting further clarification would be good.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm on my honeymp
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 16, 2010 4:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow reply fail
So I’m on my honeymoon, so this will be brief. Basically you should only use corsi or +/- qcomp to compare teammates at evens. This is due to the fact that players on different teams across the NHL face other teams (of varying quality) in different amounts so it isn’t as meaningful.
All of that being said, the score you’re reading is an average of competitor scores. The bigger issue would be if the opposition hadn’t played much not the player you’re examining. This is also why corsi is considered more valuable as a measure of play because shot totals are far higher than goals… Hence larger sample sizes.
Anyways, I hate typing on my wife’s iPhone, so that’s all I’ve got to add for now. Back to Toronto on Sunday. Now back to enjoying Italy.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 16, 2010 4:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why are you here on your honeymoon?
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
just goes to show the addictive nature of PPP
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
that and he is a stat nerd who loves to argue
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha, yea i have noticed that
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
if you're on your honeymoon
you better not see anything more of Italy than the interior of your hotel room…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
i’ve been negligent in really digging in to some of these advanced stats, which is probably why i’ve yet to embrace them. i understand what they’re getting at, but until i know exactly what’s going on in that number, i’ll be suspicious.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Thirded.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
also, i’m skeptical of trying to apply the same sort of statistical analysis used in baseball (which is a very ‘static’ game with a set number of situations and outcomes…. batter vs hitter, runners at X, etc) to a fluid game like hockey. just seems like it’d be extremely difficult to accurately track a lot of measures.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
i’m sure there have been improvements. still easier to track an at-bat and the outcome.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
i’ll say that, although i’m not a huge fan of advanced stats in general, i do think that what’s being put out does carry some weight.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
whats that quote about stats are great but use your own eyes?
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
a stat should confirm what you see with your eyes, or something to that effect, yes
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
So long as you accept that most of the measures are tracking the likelihood of creating offense. There are actual defensive stats in baseball, but there really isn’t anything in hockey. People try to infer defensive prowess by measuring differences in offense (ie. there are more goals for than against, therefore you must be OK defensively), but it really isn’t the same thing.
Defense in hockey involves the prevention of events, which makes it all but unmeasurable.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Should add that this factor makes any measure of “value” suspect in my opinion. Most of these stats make no account of role, and can’t accurately assess the value of a defensive player.
We can track offense.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
GVT tries to, but yeah, it undervalues defensive contributions.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It basically has to – it’s measuring offense.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
They’re so interwoven that keeping the puck in the offensive zone is the best form of defense. It depends how strict your definition of “defense” is.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The definition of good defensive play is precisely the problem. In baseball, people defend their position. There are discrete events that can be recorded, mapped and compared. There is no such thing in hockey. A good defensive play might simply be that a player had to shoot because the pass was taken away. The defense comes down to the play that doesn’t happen, and this by definition can’t be quantified or measured.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Don’t get too carried away about how easy it is to map defensive plays in baseball. They updated the UZR formula last winter and Jason Bay went from being a horrible fielder to a generally average one.
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A lot depends on the quality of your data.
The difference is that in baseball, there actually is data, whether it’s viable or not.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Also – if you have data, then you can discuss the quality of your model.
In hockey, a lot of that data doesn’t exist. When you look at the determination of shot quality, for example, 57% of the influencing factors are “uncaptured.”
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Years ago, when Klein and Reif were writing their Hockey Compendium (which was the first case I ever saw of people trying to work on the stats to suss out extra information), they came to the conclusion that Bob Gainey was horribly overrated.
They decided this because his plus/minus stats, when normalized for the team he played on, looked awful. At no point, however, did it seem to occur to them that a checker who draws all the bad assignments would be expected to have a bad plus/minus if he doesn’t generate a lot of offense himself.
That’s a variation on the problem I see with a lot of these other stats. With delta, for example, we see where a player tends to drive offense from in comparison to the players he tends to play against. It tells us nothing about actual defensive ability and nothing about the quality of chances either way, just that when player x is on the ice, his team gives up more shots from the slot than it takes. Now, this might be because the player is a defensive liability, or it might be because the player shoots from anywhere he gets the puck, or it might be both. We can’t tell.
At any rate, a quality checker who doesn’t score a whole lot appears in a number of stats as weak opponent, when all it really means is he’s less likely to score against you. If he stops your top guy, though, he’s hardly a lesser opponent.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
And that is my problem with these new fangled stats
You require so many different types of them to get the whole story. I’m not one for the “Billy Beane Moneyball” approach to building teams, because at some point, you are going to line up against a team just as good as you and you need to “Play Ball” so to speak.
I also thinks it’s important to point out that, the prototypical “Stat” team (The A’s) have never won a playoff series. I understand hockey and baseball are apples and oranges, but I believe the point to still be the same.
Just my two cents
As I understand it, the A’s based their approach on statistical trends from the steroid era. When that went away, their walk/walk/bomb approach went, too.
They weren’t going anywhere in the playoffs even during the steroid era though is what I was saying. If anything the A’s of the early 2000’s strike me alot like Peyton Manning of the early 2000’s, A-Rod pre 2009 world series and the 2009-2010 Washington Capitals. Great when up a blowout win but not something to be feared in clutch situations
hahah wow
klein & reif sure know what they were talking about.
after 72 when the soviets called him the best player in the world, they were definitely overvaluing his plus/minus.
obvy, duh.
i never make the same mistake: jeff schultz is teh shit!!!
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 17, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
GVT tries to, but yeah, it undervalues defensive contributions.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, within a season one skater will face all sorts of other players (not topping 4% of his shifts) and will skate with all sorts of teammates. It gives an accurate picture then, but not perfect. If your eyes and the stats disagree, either the guy is getting lots of “noise” in his stats or your eyes are too biased (see Beauchemin, Francois).
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It gives a picture of, for example, whether a given player tends to play against people who generate a lot of shot attempts. It doesn’t really say whether he gives up high-percentage chances or not.
The Delta stat tried to do this by tracking chances for and against from the “prime areas,” but even this doesn’t tell you that much, as only 24% of shot quality is determined by location. What delta seems to tell you more than anything is the shooting preferences of the people it measures.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Then wouldn’t a combination of GAON/60 and Corsi QoC be appropriate then?
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think so. The whole point they were trying to address was the elimination of the goaltender from defensive calculations. By adding the GAON/60 back in, we’ve reintroduced the goaltender and that muddies the water.
Corsi makes me itch a little bit in general. It has been shown, for example, that a team that is trailing will tend to outshoot its opposition, though potentially to lesser effect. If a player is sent out there to protect a lead, he might find himself allowing more shot attempts, though the quality of each is diminished.
To me, you’d really need to track the players a given player plays against, and then look at his stats in individual matchups. If player X generates a certain amount of offense against the rest of the league but only 2/3 of that against our checker, then maybe we have something.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
I think they should normalize qualcomp, personally, the small decimals make it very hard to interpret.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
Yeah, should probably be on a 100 to 0 scale.
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I was talking about multiplying it by some factor so that the standard deviation is approximatly 1, but that’d work too.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
Considering that it’s based on On/Off +/-, it makes sense as it stands now though
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Yes
But the advantage that a lot of advanced MLB stats have incorporated is adding a normalizing factor to make it reflect a stat we’re already more accustomed to.
Stats like wOBA and FIP are multiplied by factors that make them look similar to AVG and ERA, because there’s less learning involved in knowing the difference between really good and really bad. Great hitters will have an wOBA above .400 and bad ones will be below .250, good pitchers will have a FIP around 3, that kind of stuff.
Please don't act like this comment is important
That just sounds erotic.
I’m turned on.
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wankle
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
QTeam and QComp are based on Rel +/-, which I think is normalized already.
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by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
One bit of good news: The fact that the Leafs couldn’t move Kaberle in two straight off-seasons should finally shut Burke up about this “JFJ was so wise to negotiate this trade window” nonsense.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Aug 16, 2010 11:43 AM EDT reply actions
Pretty sure that shutting up Burke has nothing to do with logic and reason.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya
I don’t think that’s possible.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, shutting up in the sense that he’ll talk about something else, not that he’ll be silent.
Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.
by Down Goes Brown on Aug 16, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to hear
his speech on his justification of the Kessel trade again. I’ve almost forgotten it!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh
I was kidding, he says the same speech every time, almost word for word.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
’cause the media is kinda dumb
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
sometimes he senses the question is coming and pounces before it’s asked. Makes me laugh.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
FYI, LeafsTV is currently showing the infamous Flu Game.
Spoiler alert – A certain rosy-cheeked defenceman sets up the winning goal.
Resident Capologist
a Kings fan once told me they called Berg “redneck” because of the goal light always going off behind him.
pretty much sums up his career rather nicely
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I am honestly astonished that I have never heard this before.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle with room down the left wing and Nolan Trailing. Drop Pass. Owen Nolan – Scores! Owen Nolan wins it in overtime with 30.7 seconds left! Holy Mackinaw what a comeback!
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
HOLY MACKINAW! is my favourite sports announcer quote ever. Also, the Harvey’s commercial with Joe Bowen was epic.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 16, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry – but I can’t stand it. I have always felt Bowen was a much better announcer when he called it straight and didn’t have the “signature call.”
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Hearing that made me very sad. :( I think I need some ice cream and chicken wings.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 16, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
and beer.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, I hate beer. Maybe a Jack and Coke or some Strongbow.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 16, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
You… hate…. beer? o.O
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That… is… correct. I’ve tried Canadian, Alexander Keith’s (red and white), Budweiser, Bud Light, and probably one or two others I can’t recall, as well as Guinness… it all tastes like crap to me. Slightly different flavours, but all the same disgusting, bitter aftertaste that intensifies as you get closer to the bottom of the bottle.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
To each his own I guess…
Though drinking Guinness is a fine art, as you have to drink beyond the head (the frothy part) to get the real good taste.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
and guinness isnt a typical beer that most people like right off the cuff
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
keiths is pretty good
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s run-of-the-mill
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You see the thing is, each of those beers was recommended to me by different friends, each of whom claims their own favourite kind is better than the rest. Quite frankly, I’ve stopped believing beer drinkers. It all tastes almost the same to me.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 17, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m trying to think of a good starter beer.
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My wife isn’t a big fan of beer, but she likes Kronenberg and Blanche de Chambly.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
heineken?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Heineken is one that’s been mentioned several times to me but I haven’t tried yet. I’ll give beer one last shot at redemption. No pressure, Heineken.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 17, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
UFO Raspberry Hefeweizen
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
not a bad idea
Sam Adam’s has a raspberry wheat that’s really smooth.
also, Lost Coast Brewery’s Tangerine Wheat.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think any of these beers are where you should be going, CM. You seem to prefer sweeter drinks anyway, listing jack and coke, along with cider. Out of the three listed above, you’ll probably have the most luck finding the Raspberry Wheat, and it’s a smooth drink, I agree.
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
fruli!!!
fruli-drunk is a weird drunk.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 17, 2010 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
that’s because you think you’re drinking fruit juice, and then you’re like ‘woah, am I drunk?’
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 17, 2010 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions
kegs
no one really likes beer when they first start drinking.
but after plowing through your “ew, this tastes kinda funky” phase with repeated assaults via red cups, you will realize that somewhere along the way your tastebuds adjusted and now it tastes like sweet sweet nectar.
but for those of you who are no longer at school, its probably not a good idea to drink 3+ times a week for the 3-5 months it takes to eclipse that bitter introductory phase.
I’m trying to think of a good starter beer.
um, corona w/ a lime wedge? i can’t really think of one either…
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 17, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
but you haven’t tried labatt 50. if beer drank beer, it would drink 50.
by gnarlybattleship on Aug 16, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You know that beer, every once in a while that is just ‘skunky’?
That’s a bottle of 50 that was improperly labeled.
50 is gross, and I’ll drink just about any type of beer.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle on the Powerplay
The Leafs only scored 44 PPGs last year and Kaberle had a hand in 25 of those; 3 G, 13 primary assists, and 9 secondary assists.
I ran the numbers and of the top 100 power play point getters, Kaberle ranks 30th in PP points and 15th in terms of PP points / Total Points, scoring 51% on the PP.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
30th
in defenders, all skaters?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
All skaters. He’s 8th amongst defensemen overall.
He’s 12th amongst defensemen in terms of PP points / Overall points.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
terrible
simply terrible
trade him for garbage
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
woo-hoo
Kaberle ranks 30th in PP points and 15th in terms of PP points / Total Points, scoring 51% on the PP.
thats pretty good for a guy who’s team was crap on the PP.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 16, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
WOOOOAH OOOOOH OOOOOH IT’S KABERLE’S TEAM!
GO!
LEAFS!
GO!
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
by ohshrit on Aug 16, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
May as well
it’s that or go into a deep depression.
More optimism!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i’ve dumped my burke avatar so as to not cause undue tension in the FTB’s..
in its place..a knitted puppet
Today's tears will become tommorow's rain.
My twitter! http://www.twitter.com/tangerinedream9
by Future_considerations on Aug 16, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Solid points Chemmy
I’m just going to pretend that if they shifted Kaberle to centre he’d turn into Scott Gomez (without the insane contract). Good passer, smart defensively, a nice part of your top two lines. Look, it’s only two months to the start of the season, I might as well daydream.
[You might ask “If you’re going for ridiculous fantasies, why in hell would you not go all the way and pick Crosby?” I guess a small part of me really wants to believe it could be true…]
I've been looking at the sky
Crosby
is a UFA in 2013. I’m waiting until 2012 to start dreaming
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
Summer love
So many years and so many teammates gone by. So many memories filled with both joy and sorrow. Oh Kabby, remember that day when you tried playing volleyball instead of hockey? It sure was strange. New experiences in new enviornments often are. But you looked so comfortable, relaxed, even confident in your sexy black t-shirt. But mostly, you looked so happy. I haven’t seen you smile like that since the time you won the accuracy-shooting competition. Will we ever be so free of burden and conflict again? Can we learn to love, without condition? Please don’t take a heavy heart into camp and let “lingering bad feelings on both sides” lead us astray. Now is the time for optimism and enthusiasm, and and not for a compromised, heart-broken, bitter soul, trapped in a downward spiral of lost friends and on-line gambling-addiction.
Come back happy, Tomas. Let’s have some fun again.
by general borschevsky on Aug 16, 2010 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 12 recs
amazing
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
what a heart-tugging letter
Today's tears will become tommorow's rain.
My twitter! http://www.twitter.com/tangerinedream9
by Future_considerations on Aug 16, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
damn I missed you
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel nostalgic.
I MISS TUCKER!!!
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
BRING BACK BEALK!
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You have been away too long GB
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Cheers
I’m slightly outta touch but it’s all slowly coming back to me now…
by general borschevsky on Aug 16, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It's been a rough summer
When you write it, we will come.
Please don't act like this comment is important
In a room full of passionate Maple Leaf fans
I’m sure many of us would say “I love the Leafs so much, I’d never want to leave” if they were put into the wonderful hypothetical situation of actually being good enough to be in the NHL for their favourite team.
Tomas Kaberle actually is in that situation and is saying the same thing most of us would imagine we’d say.
It’s a celebration, bitches. With this proof of passion, it stands to reason that if he weren’t in the NHL, Kabby would be on PPP.
Please don't act like this comment is important
by Archimedies on Aug 16, 2010 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
what would his username be?
I hope it’s “DethKabs4QT”
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
McKlutz24
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
what would his username be?
No question: “eyebleaf”
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Aug 16, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not to be an overly negative dick
But if I were in the NHL, I’d also passionately want to win a Stanley Cup, and probably explore circumstances to make that possible. Kaberle, being 32, is running out of time to do that, and by sticking with the team he loves he may have to give up that dream. I for one wouldn’t do it.
But that’s not overly negative – that’s a personality type. Everyone has things that drive them. Tomas Kaberle would rather win one here.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
There
That saves me from writing the exact same thing
Please don't act like this comment is important
For me, and this isn’t exactly dealing with Kaberle, but I do have to question a player’s drive to win if they are constantly satisfied playing for a poor team while being given many chances to go to a team with a shot to win.
As far as Kaberle goes, if he TRULY believes that Toronto will or can win a cup during his playing career, fine. But me, as a passionate diehard fan, I am not sure if I see that in the next few years, leaving, at best, his late 30s as his last hope.
Tomas Kaberle doesn’t return videotapes to blockbuster.
True Story.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
OH NO
good thing they let you buy them outright now when you do that
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It just isn’t likely for any player to win the Stanley Cup, even if they play 20 years; chasing it by changing teams.
Other ways to secure a legacy might include placing within the top 5 of all-time games played for an Original Six franchise, setting a team record for points at your position, starting and retiring with the same Original Six franchise…
There’s also an implicit assumption that any team Kaberle gets traded to is further towards a Cup in the next 5 years. I don’t really care to argue the probabilities, but it’s a pretty big assumption.
Other ways to secure a legacy might include placing within the top 5 of all-time games played for an Original Six franchise, setting a team record for points at your position, starting and retiring with the same Original Six franchise…
I’d rather a player care more about the team goal than personal ones.
by lordosis on Aug 16, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so
because he cares about winning one in Toronto, and has proven to be a steady and reliable point producer on the blue line, he’s a detriment to the team?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is exactly why we should’ve traded him for Ryan Malone!!! 1!!111
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I know, I was just screwing around, it wasn’t intended to be a reply to your original comment.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I’m definitely not saying. And I didn’t use the word detriment.
But I do wonder a bit about a player’s (not necessarily Kaberle’s) level of complacency is said person chooses to remain on lousy teams for so long.
Most players, in my opinion, in no way to have any proof to back this up, that play so long with one team have either already won a cup with said team, or when they finish their careers their teams are legitimate contenders.
Ray Bourque is one player who gave a last ditch effort to win, leaving. And I personally commend that move, and so do Boston fans who were happy he won it. If those Bruin teams had a decent chance to win then, he woulda stuck it out and tried. If Kaberle feels the Leafs will someday win the Cup and he can play a part, fine, stay and I’ll be happy. But if he’ll stay no matter how terrible they are, I do question his drive to win.
you’re right, you didn’t my bad…
The Leafs weren’t always lousy though, and Kabby probably still remembers those heady days of yore, and is excited in being a part of them again.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And I hope that happens. If that’s how he really feels, great, welcome him in.
I just hope he’s not staying because his comfort level is more important to him than winning.
I agree
But Bourque didn’t change teams until he was 39 years old and knew 100% the Bruins weren’t winning the Cup in the next 2 seasons.
Please don't act like this comment is important
i think the point was, he (I?) likes the idea of a player who sits back at the end of his career and says “man it was fun to win that Cup” more than one who says “i feel proud that i’m the best dman to ever wear the maple leaf”
not that i think kaberle’s the latter
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
Really?
I think I’d rather go down in history as one of the best Leafs ever.
Please don't act like this comment is important
So you’d be happy being recognized as the greatest Leaf fan of all time if that means you’d never witness a Leaf Stanley Cup win?
To me? Fuck that. Now we have to find the greatest Cubs fan and see how he feels.
counterpoints
Mats Sundin
Wendel Clark
Borje Salming
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
And Sundin’s heart has been questioned (not by me, don’t kill me, it just has come up by others here and there).
And none of them played their whole careers as Leafs, so they could have had both.
hypothetical
If Clark had an NTC (modified or not…), and refused to waive it, ensuring the Leafs never got Sundin, would he still be revered, or would he be vilified?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
is that the Pandora’s box of questions or what…?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
* grabs canned food, heads to basement *
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
/pounds on Chemmy’s bunker’s door screaming LET ME IN, DAMMIT, I BROUGHT HO HOs
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
you shoulda got ibtl
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I BROUGHT HO HOs
Repopulation is back on and Karina’s off the hook.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
ohthankgod
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
oh shit hold on let’s get this door open
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
- crawls into concrete bunker *
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
/makes popcorn
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
oh crap
I’m stuck in here with you two?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
oh crap
I’m stuck in here with you two?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
its cool, we have popcorn
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
oh crap
I’m stuck in here with you two?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
it’s cool they have popcorn and you have to repopulate the species.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
what are you talking about? Veal is delicious
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
No clue
I don’t think anyone should ever be vilified for refusing to waive a NTC, it’s their right to it.
yes
but it was Sundin’s right and he got raked over the coals. I’m not saying would you specifically, but generally speaking, what would that have done to the “myth” of Wendel Clark? No easy answer…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sundin got raked over the coals for his bullshit about not wanting to join a team in the middle of the season and then joining a team in the middle of the season.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Aug 16, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
no
before any of that happened, he was still being poked and prodded by the MSM for his lack of willingness to waive. The Muskoka Five name wasn’t hatched post Sundin signing in Vancouver, it was long before.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
But that’s the MSM. I think Sundin was still pretty loved by Leaf fans until the whole “where to sign” debacle.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
depends on the fan. I know some who weren’t too happy when he refused to waive for a conditional pick and Chris Higgins (no, not birky, not that i’m aware of at least…)
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I was too young to have understood the politics, so no. I would still love Clark to this day.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 16, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If Clark had an NTC (modified or not…), and refused to waive it, ensuring the Leafs never got Sundin, would he still be revered, or would he be vilified?
Look no further than Darcy Tucker. People still love him ’round these parts and he used his NMC to stick the Leafs with a cap hit through 2014.
Considering Tucker is like 1/16th the player Clark was, I’d say fans would still love Wendel.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Yeah, I have no idea…it’s a great question though.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Chemmy and the Delfonics
Are you telling us you love us?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
SORRY I CAN’T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
all great players
and every single one would trade any single accolade to have won a cup
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I'm just saying
There are 100’s of players who have won the stanley cup. Only a handful go down in the ‘greatest Leaf ever’ discussion.
Different strokes for different folks.
Please don't act like this comment is important
It’s kind of like Olympic Gold is once every four years, but SC—every year, except in lockout—is equally valuable or more valuable to many players.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
Follow me on Twitter!
by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I think I’d rather go down in history as one of the best Leafs ever.
Please don't act like this comment is important
these double post troubles seem to be pretty common lately
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh.
I haven’t seen a single double post on my screen.
Then again, I’m probably smoking a lot more pot than you guys are right now.
Please don't act like this comment is important
i disagree
as i believe that Arch’s points should always be reiterated
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I think I’d rather go down in history as one of the best Leafs ever.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I think I’d rather go down in history as one of the best Leafs ever by WINNING a Cup for Toronto.
fixed
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that Kaberle has chosen to return...
The only thing to do now is to make him work hard for minutes, just like everyone else. There are only so many D shifts to go around out there and guys like Beauch, Phaneuf, Komi and Schenn are all going to be working as hard as they can to prove they can earn them.
With that much defensive protection ahead of him, he should get fairly soft assignments and be completely ready to go come PP time.
Please don't act like this comment is important
he should get fairly soft assignments and be completely ready to go come PP time.
Sweet Baby Jesus I hope this actually happens.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
i can get behind this idea. I Stats notwithstanding, it doesn’t seem, to my eyes, that he’s been a goals-against sinkhole. But what i love about Kabby has always been his play on the offensive side of the ice
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
IIRC his zone start stats seemed to indicate that Ron Wilson used him in this way last year.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Q.
Will there be a Hotline set up for the excessively distraught leaf fans?
i.e. the ones who are still catatonic from pill overdoses?, etc
Today's tears will become tommorow's rain.
My twitter! http://www.twitter.com/tangerinedream9
by Future_considerations on Aug 16, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
Something I Don't Understand
Why everyone is stating how the Leafs couldn’t get what they wanted for Kaberle because “he’s a pending UFA”. But wouldn’t teams rather trade a player/pick or a prospect/pick for one full season of Kaberle rather than at the deadline? By this logic, we’ll get even worse deals for him (assuming of course he’d waive).
The only counter to this, is that at the deadline you have to pay less of his salary, but as we all know he’s on a good deal so that really shouldn’t matter much, especially if Burke was going to take salary back (along with picks/prospects).
All this makes me wonder if Burke in fact was asking for WAY too much.
At the deadline you’re also more confident of making the playoffs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
True
But wouldn’t your confidence of making the playoffs increase with a good player for the whole season?
But a lot of teams also have young players they think can step in and be good – ie, the Sharks think Demers can improve as an offensive defenseman, and thus may feel they don’t need Kaberle.
Come the deadline, maybe Demers sucks and they change their mind.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
gm over pays at the start of the y ear for kaberle, and their team blows chunks and finishes 27th over all he gets his ass fired
gm over pays at the deadline for kaberle because his team is going to the playoffs and kaberle might put them over the top but they get swept in the 2nd round, he still has a job
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Wysh's piece today sort of answers that
1. That defense was the deepest position in free agency. Burke said at the NHL Draft back in June that the Leafs would know whether they’d hang on to or deal Kaberle after the Free-Agent Frenzy on July 1. Other team’s activities around that day may have put Kaberle back in blue this fall.
2. That two of Kaberle’s prospective suitors, the Los Angeles Kings and the New Jersey Devils, were embroiled in an Ilya Kovalchuk(notes) Derby that’s extended past Kaberle’s NTC deadline.
3. That while Kaberle’s salary and cap hit are manageable at $4.25 million, much of this league is capped out or cash-strapped thanks to the economy or their own specific dilemmas (like the ownership issues in Dallas, for example).
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet Christ
The Ottawa Sun reported Sunday the San Jose Sharks were rumored to have offered up either Jamie McGinn or Logan Couture to the Canucks for Bieksa.
- From Spector
Bieksa only has one year left, only half a million less than Kaberle, and is injury prone. How could we not get Couture for him? Arrgh.
That’s retarded if the Sharks have actually made that offer.
I highly doubt it, since it’s from the Ottawa Sun.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
if you read the Sun's article
Not sure what to make of whispers that San Jose is willing to trade LW Jamie McGinn or C Logan Couture for Bieksa, but the talk is out there.
whoever is talking, and where ever “out there” is are not specified.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but rumours reported in the Ottawa Sun haven’t exactly proven reliable.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear malkin is headed to the kings
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear malkin is headed to the kings
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
\garrioch’ed
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
bieksa is a more " well rounded" defenseman and the sharks need that more than a pure offense guy because they have boyle
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Bieksa’s a more arrogant SOB who has the ability to play better defense than Kaberle but doesn’t because he’s a lazy ass.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
if i needed a pick up truck i would offer more money for one than i would for a convertible, even if the convertible was faster and prettier
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d buy the corvette for cheap, turn around and sell it for more, and buy TWO pick up trucks. Booya.
would you get chrome testicles to hang from your trailer hitch? those are really cool…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
if your buying a corvette for cheap, there is probably something wrong with it and you are gonna have to put money and time into it to fix it up and sell it, but you need that pick up truck by october for work
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m buying a corvette. if i need something that won’t fit in it, i’ll have it delivered.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You could buy a corvette
OR, you could buy 6 or 7 Great wall utes. Or if you want a comparison, 6 or 7 Jeff Fingers.
On second thoughts, for the love of god buy the corvette
get a Subaru legacy outback GT
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
nah, Willie would be a VW, sure it sounds like a good idea, but it’s just gonna break down on you
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
“allegedly reliable”
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 16, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Does this make Marian Gaborik an Alfa Romeo? You know it’s going to break down but it doesn’t stop you throwing money at it
nah, Gaborik was far to healthy last year to be an Alfa
the best comparison I can think of is Mike Van Ryan
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 17, 2010 7:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if it is a deal at 4.25 or whatever, it still is expensive, and so many teams are close to the cap (either the NHL cap or their own budget cap).
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
Follow me on Twitter!
by red army line on Aug 16, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Room Under the Bus
Wilson’s shelf life is about up. If this team isn’t smoking by Xmas, under the bus he should goe. Same place he likes to toss such stiffs as Marleau and Kabs.
And about Kaberle’s 2nd half last year…I’d suck too if my boss was slagging me to millions of people. Who knows what the SOB was doing in the room.
Wilson is the guy who gave the big thumbs up on the Finger signing…“a hell of a shutdown D”
I saw Wilson play during his cup of coffee with Toronto. He was as soft as baby kaka. He made his bones in Switzerland, 30 years ago, for Gawds sake! That’s like playing Junior C for the Tavistock Braves!
I think he has the Lenny Wilkins disease. On his last contract, begging to be fired so he can get onto those Carolina golf courses ASAP.
Give the incompetent son of a bitch what he wants. He can take Finger with him seeing as he’ll need a caddy.
So was it your dog or cat that Wilson ran over with his car?
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
I’m going to guess cat. And I’m also going to guess it went under the bus.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Wilson: I think I just ran over your cat with my bus. I feel just terrible about it and I’d like to replace the cat.
Petepuck: Well, that would be fine I guess, but how are you at catching mice?
by Mirinov's Nose on Aug 16, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
decaf
check it out
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
decaf
check it out
BWAHAHAHAHA…and rec’d.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
cheer up buttercup.
only a month and a half until the season starts.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Even less to the preseason!
Remember how fun the preseason was?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
and this year I get to enjoy that whole month of winning hockey from the comfort of my own home!
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
thanks for jinxing it
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah it was so fun
that the GM vastly overestimated the team’s chances of not finishing in the lottery pick range, and dealt two 1st round picks to a division rival!
i can’t remember how that turned out though…
The most pessimistic Leafs fan on the board.
by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah it was so fun
that the GM vastly overestimated the team’s chances of not finishing in the lottery pick range, and dealt two 1st round picks to a division rival!
i can’t remember how that turned out though…
The most pessimistic Leafs fan on the board.
by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
There are no words..
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
it’s true, the Leafs are the only team EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD to trade a way a lotter pick for a really good player.
We should continually complain about this point, as it’s not been covered enough.
Also, Kessel sucks. He and his 30 goals are easily replaceable by drafting an unproven kid who may be the next Alexander Daigle or Patrik Stefan.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
shhh let the guy feel like he is funny and insightful
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
no, they're not
but they are the first to project a good pre-season onto an entire season and make the decision based on that!
The most pessimistic Leafs fan on the board.
by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
really
can you back that up somehow?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
here we go
Brian Burke announcement of the Kessel trade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeIQetktOSg
Remember, this is just two days into the pre-season
“we think with some of the players we acquired without giving up picks, like the Tyler Bozaks, Hanson, Gustavsson…. we feel by stocking the cupboard we can take some of the cans off the shelf for the future.”
Hmmm… how did Burke evaluate the play of Bozak, Hanson and Gustavsson? Could it have been during the first games of the preseason?
The most pessimistic Leafs fan on the board.
by Peter de Chatham on Aug 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Your tagline
serves you well.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
How about because the Leafs scouted the bejeebers out of them prior to signing them?
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Bozak and Hanson also played for the Leafs the prior season if only for a few games.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
partially correct. Hanson yes. Bozak no
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yea, I knew I was off on that one.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
ummm
your fairly shortsighted if you believe “the future” = “this season”
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i dunno. Considering we don’t have a first round pick this year or next year, we kinda are looking at the future
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
ok. two draft picks = the future. all is lost. find a new team.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
what’s your point then? i’m honestly shocked your siding with the negative POV, it’s so not like you…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs are one of the youngest teams in the league, they don’t have any high draft picks coming next summer, we’re at the 50 SPC limit, and every single player besides 3 or 4 has been brought in by Burke. This season isn’t necessarily “the future”, but we’re pretty close.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Barring some kind of mega trade, you’re looking at the future right now.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
WTF
“this season” would have been in reference to this past season. The one that started with Hagman, White, Stajan etc…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
the future is now!
For the calgary flames!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask any sane hockey fan and say “did you expect the Leafs to finish 29th overall?” If they say yes, they are full of shit.
Hindsight is 20/20. Get the fuck over it.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I dunno man I forget old shit all the time.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
paying drunken paintball all weekend will do that to ya
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
paying, playing, whatever…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll always have VUKOTA, baby.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
2009-10 VUKOTA Projections: Toronto Maple Leafs, 29th Overall
read more here.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Ahhh yes.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Holy Shit!
They can see the future!!11
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t want to bring that unpleasantness up.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
Yeah. I really ripped on Vukota last year. And it was dead fucking on.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I disagreed with his math, but didn’t think his answer was that far off. Reading it now, he seems oddly prescient:
Toronto should finish comfortably in the bottom third of the league on offense, and about the same on defense. Gustavsson isn’t a sure thing, and combined with Toskala’s poor performance he makes the crease a big question mark. The defense is solid but unspectacular and the forwards don’t score much, which leaves us with an end result of a team that could very well be in the running for the #1 overall draft pick in 2010. Of course, the goaltending situation could change things for the Maple Leafs. If Gustavsson step into the NHL without missing a beat, and/or if Toskala regains some of his previous form, the Leafs won’t be terrible. Unfortunately for Toronto, even in a best-case scenerio, they won’t be very good.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Yes and no. Their prediction was that the Leafs newfound defensive prowess would not offset the fact that nobody on the team was a lock for 20 goals.
It’s like complaining that a house is unstable because the foundation is bad, then saying “I told you so” when it collapses after being hit by a meteor.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Maybe, but they sure got the goaltending part right.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
i don’t think expecting 850 goaltending out of DS was totally unrealistic
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I am still composing my apologies. Last fall, I said some terrible things about VUKOTA’s mother. Out of an abundance of caution, so far I have apologized to (in no particular order):
Mick Vukota;
Abe Vigoda;
Two Toyotas;
My Sharona; and
a Pagoda.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Aug 16, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t even know what Vukota is and I found this funny!
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t even know what Vukota is and I found this funny!
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Aug 16, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint: Vukota predicted Sabres would finish 18th in 09-10.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
1. Nobody cares about the Sabres
2. The question was, “who predicted the Leafs would come in 29th?”
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
by mf37 on Aug 16, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I mentioned them not only because im a sabres fan, but they are the other team that most fell prey to goalie outliers (Ryan Miller’s GVT of 37, Toskala’s GVT of -15 were both three times as much as predicted)
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
stupid loppy
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody asked about the Sabres.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
he likes to throw in stuff about them like we give a shit
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
of course this leads to “Theres no way either of these are sustainable values” and then the soul crushing realization that the Sabres are doomed, and the awesome realization that the leafs are un-doomed.
OPTIMISM!!!1
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
You know who I hate? Ryan Miller.
Nice five hole job against Crosby.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
you mean this?
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
by ohshrit on Aug 16, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Basically Ryan Miller fucks me over at every turn.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Why isn't this green?
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Did my bit!
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
autorec
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Goes to the overall credibility of the estimates, though. If they were out to lunch on most of the predicitons, that makes nailing the Leafs’ 29th-place finish a lot more about luck.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
I totally agree with this.
Just hate the Sabres.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Yes.
But so far, this is the only other reference to other predicitons that I’ve heard, and I’m not inclined at the moment to check out the other 29.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
It’s more of a punchline than anything else. That said, they did accurately call the Leafs problems in net.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
More than the Leafs?
Bazing!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Counterpoint?? #28: Phoenix Coyotes
“Now Phoenix is just another team over-paying for a league-average goaltender for the next two years.
2009-2010 VUKOTA Projections
Ilya Bryzgalov G, 29 = 5.4
Final Result?
Ilya Bryzgalov G, 29 = 28.8
3rd best goalie, 5th best in NHL. Led his team to Game 7 of the 1st round.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 17, 2010 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions
you must have one funky calendar
the preseason happened AFTER the Kessel trade
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of the preseason happened after.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
s’what i ment
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel was traded on September 18th. The Leafs had played preseason games on the 16th and 17th and played a game that night too.
There’s probably a decent chance the Kessel deal took more than two days (since it was being kicked around at the draft), meaning the preseason had no bearing on the Kessel trade.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I was at the Habs pre-season game against the Sens (don’t ask… part of package, I took my cousin), and when they announced the deal on the “sports break” on the jumbotron, I was pretty much the only person to cheer. It was awesome.
by Leaf in Habland on Aug 16, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
shhh let the guy feel like he is funny and insightful
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Except we still played preseason games after the Kessel trade.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’m trying to remember the Burkian calendar.
Pre-season is our playoffs, right?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
The preseason is the trade deadline.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Cool.
July 1 is our draft.
It’s all coming together.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
The trade deadline is our playoffs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
The start of the regular season is our off season and the middle of the regular season is our preseason. The last Saturday night game against Montreal of the season is our Cup Finals.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
The last Saturday night game against Montreal of the season is our Cup Finals.
SUCCESSORY!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t get the moral victory stanley cup unless you actually eliminate them from the playoffs, sorry.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
PROTRACTOR
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
SUCCESSORIES FTW!!11
The Maple Leafs and golf- making me insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Aug 16, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s not what Chemmy implied
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
you cant make chicken salad with chicken shit
also, when the hell did wilson throw kaberle under the bus?
Wilson DID NOT SIGN Finger, just because he backed his GM on a move doesnt make him a bad coach
time as a player has no bearing on coaching, or else Bowman is the worst coach ever
logic, use it
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
you cant make chicken salad with chicken shit
You can, actually. Just make sure someone else eats it.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
you cant make chicken salad with chicken shit
You can, actually. Just make sure someone else eats it.
‘Is there anything you would like with that, Mr. Sutter?’
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The More You Know
Did you know the Japanese can make ‘meat’ out of protein extracted from shit. It is absolutely possible to make a chicken shit salad.
IE
I base my opinion on no facts
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
yes and 550+ wins mean nothing
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Puck Daddy Comment
A serious question: Why all the attention about Tomas Kaberle? I’m not to up on the player (except that his last name rhymes with Chevrolet) and I’m really curious as to why he has garnered so much media attention lately. Is he a good player or does he suck? What’s the deal with Kaberle? Thanks in advance.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
This is why Puck Daddy commentors can’t have nice things.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
My favourite part
Is that it starts with
“A serious question…”
Please don't act like this comment is important
probably because everyone who has half a brain and read it said “seriously?”
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Hello. I would like to have an opinion about things that I know nothing about. Please supply one for me so that I may vehemently regurgitate it the next time I hear this person’s name as if it were my own. In this way, I may seem to have a life, even if the opinion you give me is wrong.
Also, what’s a Raffi Torres?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
So, uh…. I don’t think Rick Curran understands the nature of the Toronto Maple Leafs:
"He woke up in the morning and he was relieved to know he wasn’t going somewhere he didn’t know he’d be going to."
"Now," continued Curran. "I’m just quite hopeful that everything settles down. Let’s just let everything settle down."
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT reply actions
Curran could help with the settling down by shutting his trap
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I pretty much hate him now.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
rick curran is a douchebag
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The Toronto Maple Leafs
Let’s just let everything settle down!!!1
by general borschevsky on Aug 16, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
So so rec’d.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
So so rec’d.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He was hiding from you. Thanks for scaring him off.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Glad you are back.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, write another fuckin’ blog already!
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 16, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Look what I bought today!
Would it be a sweater foul to put Kaberle on the back?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions
salming
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
TOSKALA…you know you want to!
The Maple Leafs and golf- making me insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Aug 16, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
so pretty
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
a little bit, but to each their own…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Not going to, more in the spirit of Kaberlove.
Nothings going on it. Got it on sale for 100 bones.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
very nice
looks warm (and kind of itchy…)
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, not itchy at all actually. I think I’ll get more use out of it than a regular sweater.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 16, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i live in California and am now genetically predisposed to sweaters.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i live in California and am now genetically predisposed to sweaters.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It be tough to get the stitching right
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
nice!
Today's tears will become tommorow's rain.
My twitter! http://www.twitter.com/tangerinedream9
by Future_considerations on Aug 16, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. I refer you to the logo that reads “Vintage”.
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 16, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
So this is worriesome
"We do not have extra defensemen right now. We may not be able to dress them all for opening night."
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:57 PM EDT reply actions
I see how you’re reading that, I’m reading it as “We don’t have extras, we won’t be able to dress all of them (due to roster size limits) but they’re not extras.”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Well, there’s Komisarek rehabbing the shoulder. Anyone else injured we’re forgetting?
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
we’ve been hearing since the near end of last season how it was 100 percent and he was rip ready to go, so unless he had some sort of training relapse
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahhh that could make sense.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
But now that you mentioned it ugh.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Thankfully Burke speaks in riddles so it’s totally possible he means what you say, so I’m going to forget what I thought it meant.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
eh the rest of the article makes it seem like someone is already hurt.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
Context is Everything
“I’m just saying, our plan is to make the playoffs. That’s our goal. You need eight defensemen minimum to do that. Most teams go through nine, and a lot of teams get to double digits.
We do not have extra defensemen right now."
by general borschevsky on Aug 16, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
"We do not have extra defensemen right now. We just may not be able to dress them all for opening night."
I misread this original quote, I thought it was we may not be able to dress them all for opening night…thought it inferred that someone was already hurt, hence the need for the 8 d-men.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
you can pretty much count on 1 or 2 dmen getting hurt in the first 10 games.
verbeauty!
by A Lindros Jaw on Aug 16, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke on 640
D-men 1 through 8, as a group, are as good as any in the league.
With this d-group we’d like to distribute the minutes fairly.
If the Leafs make the playoff it’s because the defence is as good as we think they are (if not, we’ll have to look at making changes).
Any other names/deals come out of the Kaberle talks? Yes – somethings have been put forward, and we’ll circle back to see if there’s another way to “skin that cat” but right now nothing is imminent.
Burke will not ask any Leafs to waive their no-trade clause. Will not ask or cajole Kaberle for a list of teams.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Questioned about center – “We’re a tad small, but we have a lot of talent. We may not have the roles I’d like at center, but we have skill”
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
On Raffi Torres: Will be looking at FA possibilities on forward. Few teams have cap room and cash, and if you’re going to add a forward you can’t rule out the possibility of adding one during training camp at a very low price"
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Reiterates he is willing to send a one way contract to the minors if it gives them an advantage.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Kadri
“It’s too early to tell on Nazem. I like players to spend some time in the minors. If he makes our team, that’s great, our coach chooses the team. But I am not againts sending him to the Marlies”
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The Raffi Torres question had me holding my breath…I was hoping for a more emphatic “No”
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
me too
I like his response on Sweatt though – “we signed Marcel Mueller and set him (Sweatt) loose”
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
id take him on a 2way deal. Thats it
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Heh
he’s going on 590 in 4 minutes, I’m sure he’ll give the exact same speech.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting that the team rights-holder gets him first.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
If the Leafs make the playoff it’s because the defence is as good as we think they are
ahem…..
goaltending?
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
goaltending is kinda a defense
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Kaberle gets a standing ovation first thing, first game. He deserves no less.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
by Redonred on Aug 16, 2010 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Burke just straight out said he’d send a one way to the minors for cap space.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I think his fingers were crossed.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Wait
was that a pun?
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
/the sound of 1000 people bookmarking for when it doesnt happen at the drop of a hat
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
you’re my hero
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I’ll give him drop of a hat plus 40 days.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Does AM640 keep archives of interviews?
I’m keeping a document of Burke quotes, I’d like to put his exact words from this one in it.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
They have an audio-on-demand section which looks like should be what you’re looking for
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
awesome thanks
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I fuckin hate mcCown
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
McCown is the perfect level of asshole. He’s the only person I bother with on the FAN these days.
I wish I could listen to Dan Shulman talk about baseball & Burt Randolph Sugar tell stories about boxing all the time. This needs to be a Sirius channel.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 17, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Burke on 590
Burke was re-active on the Kaberle trade front, said he wasn’t actively shopping him.
McCown asked about Ron Wilson and Kaberle’s relationship (kudos to Bob on that one): Burke said Ron Wilson has never asked to trade Kaberle, or suggested that he be moved (bit of a non-answer as to the relationship).
Is 8 D-men too many? Most teams usually go through 9 d-men a season.
Demoting a pro for cap reasons? It might happen but it’s up to the players. I don’t feel bound, financially or otherwise, to keep a guy on the roster. The cap looks ok though.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
maybe Burke uses a different salary cap than we do
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
he also just said that this is the group that they’re probably going to camp with.
...Being surrounded by Sens and Habs fans makes me lose faith in humanity...
No shocker there.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
this whole 8 D thing is starting to bother me.
...Being surrounded by Sens and Habs fans makes me lose faith in humanity...
Can you elaborate on this point?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
and yeah, the cap hit definitely comes into play here. If it were 7 D and one was a youngster out of camp, then the cap hit would likely be significantly less…
...Being surrounded by Sens and Habs fans makes me lose faith in humanity...
pretend that Gunnarsson is doing this all over again and you will feel better
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Speaking of which let’s go ahead and call him “Sophomore Slump” in advance.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Mainly frustration, not necessarily out of not trading Kaberle, just out of having so many defencemen. I was really looking forward to seeing a new young guy get the chance on D, say, this year’s Gunnarson. I can’t remember where I read it, but Burke said not too long ago that they would go with youth on D if they could, now, at least, it is starting to seem highly unlikely.
...Being surrounded by Sens and Habs fans makes me lose faith in humanity...
I don’t remember Burke saying that (youth on D) at all. I’m looking forward to youth up front and hoping our veteran D can be good enough to help the forwards succeed.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m fine with 8 defensemen, I wish they cost a little less, bu the number of them is A-OK.
What bothers me is that there are only 11 forwards slotted into the roster with only $2M in capspace left and no definitive first line LW.
Sure, most teams go through 9 d-men over a season, but they all go with 13 forwards for every game.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Kulemin
1st line LW. Book it. done.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What bothers me is that there are only 11 forwards slotted into the roster with only $2M in capspace left and no definitivefirstsecond line LW.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Amazing.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Cock-a-poo!
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
What bothers me is that there are only 11 forwards slotted into the roster with only $2M in capspace left and no definitivefirst secondthird line LW.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Cheese!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
RWer
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
dammit
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Mueller!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
sidebar
just checked the Leafs web site for their roster, and noticed that Hanson is listed as part of the team…
can they do that if he’s not signed?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
THEY JUST DID
maybe its foreshadowing?
What the hell is the deal with him anyway, just sign already you bum.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 16, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What bothers me is that there are only 11 forwards slotted into the roster with only $2M in capspace left and no definitivefirst second thirdfourth line LW.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
Follow me on Twitter!
by red army line on Aug 17, 2010 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Versteeg can play LW
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
No shocker there.
Talk about a set-up for a Finger joke.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
by mf37 on Aug 16, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
sounds like he’s hoping the youngsters dont regress, I hope he’s right otherwise its 29th again.
Today's tears will become tommorow's rain.
My twitter! http://www.twitter.com/tangerinedream9
by Future_considerations on Aug 16, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
if we finish 29th againa nd lose another 2nd overall pick i may have a nervous breakdown
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re planning on spending the rest of your life in a mental hospital could you at least murder Seguin and whoever goes #2 overall next year?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
i wouldnt stop until they were all dead
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok well we definitely would hate to see such a horrible tragedy happen yadda yadda yadda immoral etc.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
well, im just going to blame it all on helter skelter if it happens.
hopefully it doesnt have to come to that, id prefer not having to kill people because the leafs drove me crazy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 16, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
the cool crazies blame it on catcher in the rye
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
this is sick, why would someone DO such a thing, we should not be advocating IT, in any matter.
(subliminal message)
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 16, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
the east is still 90 percent terrible, if the Leafs get league average goaltending out of the gate there is no way that happens again
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
25th, sure, 29th? nay
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 16, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true the one area they seems vastly improved on than last year is goaltending..
Today's tears will become tommorow's rain.
My twitter! http://www.twitter.com/tangerinedream9
by Future_considerations on Aug 16, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I often think he uses a different dictionary, so why not.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
because birky is too smart, that’s why his username is our GM’s nickname…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
shocking
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
which part
I’m going with being too smart.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
then why?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Because Burke is stupid. He totally doesn’t know how to manage a team. I don’t know how he’s managed to land 4 GM jobs AND win a cup. It’s like it’s pure luck or something.
Also – he keeps on TALKING. The media ask questions, and he ANSWERS. So annoying! Why can’t he just say "no comment". Or just not show up for the interview in the first place? I don’t think MLSE really cares if Burke talks to the media or not – how important can being ‘present’ really be?
// extreme sarcasm.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
by daoust on Aug 16, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
/hug
I like you
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
no
that can’t be it…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Slow clap…
Stanley Cups are so over-rated.
The Maple Leafs and golf- making me insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Aug 16, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Mats Sundin agrees
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
by Leafer87 on Aug 16, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Olympic gold, original-six team recordbooks and top-25 overall NHL goal-scoring lists are so overrated. :)
Mats Sundin changes his mind
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
To be fair, it takes him a really really long time to change his mind (or make his mind up)
Still love the guy, though.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
God forbid someone takes issues with the certain aspects on the running of the team.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
God forbid someone takes issues with thecertainall aspects on the running of the team.
Fixed.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not even remotely true. But most of the moves made this summer have left me very disappointed in Burke
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I still have no idea how him being interviewed made you facepalm.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
this part
D-men 1 through 8, as a group, are as good as any in the league
this part
If the Leafs make the playoff it’s because the defence is as good as we think they are.
this part
Will be looking at FA possibilities on forward
this part
Reiterates he is willing to send a one way contract to the minors if it gives them an advantage.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
No idea what you’re expecting of him.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Then what would you do??
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
for a team that finished 29th, I would avoid using terms like “best in the league”. I don’t think the Leafs D is bad, but I don’t think it’s the best in the league. I don’t think defence is going to be the deciding factor in a playoff berth this year. In fact, that kind of ties into the Kaberle situation. There isn’t anyone on the free agent market, outside of Kovalchuk, that I want Burke to pursue, and as I’ve explained many times, I just simply don’t believe this “send vets to the minors” line. Burke throws out a lot of jargon and banter that has just worn on me. The first few months it was fine, sort of a breath of fresh air. But now it’s gotten stale and I don’t feel like Burke truly being upfront with the fans. I think he’s saying one thing but has plans to do something completely different. Almost like he’s trying to pull the veil over everyone’s eyes.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I know you guys don’t feel the same way, but I can’t help how I feel.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Sure but you can help how you communicate those feelings.
Saying things like “facepalm” isn’t very constructive. Saying things like “Why would the GM of a team that placed 29th who barely changed the defense say we had the best 1-8 defense in the league?” gives us something to discuss and makes you look less like an arrogant SOB.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is to contribute to the discussion.
facepalm does not do that.
So don’t say anything if you don’t want to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful manner.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t know I had to explain out every statement in minute detail. I’ll be sure to from now on.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Oh seriously dude. You know exactly what I am saying, stop being an ass.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t aware that I wasn’t contributing to the discussion. Facepalm was something I wrote without a thought. It didn’t even register that I would have to be explain myself an hour later.
Ever type something that may only be a partial thought? I’m sure you do. I shouldn’t have to come on here and vehemently defend myself for something that wasn’t intended as anything more than a quick quip.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Sorry we asked for clarification on your stance.
Adding to the ignore list, now.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
since the lockout
there have been 7 goalies who’ve played in 20 or more games, and posted a SV% of 0.880 or less.
Of those 7, 3 played (and posted these atrocious stats) for the Leafs. Add in Raycroft who put up a 0.897 in his last season in Boston, and you’ve got 4 of the 7 worst statistical goalies the league has seen since the lockout all putting time in for one team.
If I’m worried about anything on this team, it starts and ends at the net.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
so
as a “fan” of the Leafs you don’t like the blue line, don’t think they’re going to be much help to the team, don’t like the idea of adding any forwards via free agency and don’t like him sending contracts to the minors (I kid, I know what you mean on that one…)
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure how
three such normally reasonable posters managed to get so snippy with each other. I’m getting this vibe from the site a lot lately, actually. It’s disappointing. Must be August.
I should add
as a mostly-lurker, I wouldn’t mention if the relatively high standard of respectful and open-minded discussion hadn’t been set previously.
Burke was re-active on the Kaberle trade front, said he wasn’t actively shopping him.
I think, for all of his verbal tap-dancing on a whole host of other subjects, Burke’s been pretty consistent on this point. It’s been more a case of some fans and MSM folks shopping Kabby.
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 16, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how the Leafs feel about Mike Ulmer taking shots at Phaneuf and Toskala and suggesting the Leafs could trade Schenn in his new article.
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=536025&navid=DL|TOR|home
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Vesa Toskala deserves a lot of blame for this disaster of a season.
Phaneuf will need to score more next year, plain and simple, though I do think he had a very positive defensive effect (as did Sjostrom, though obviously goaltending was paramount). A lot of people around here have demonstrated that Dion’s low shooting % is a sign that more goals are (probably) to come, so i’m optimistic in that respect.
As for trading Schenn,I have no problem with that idea, but the only time it should be discussed is with regards to players of Bobby Ryan quality.
It just seemed strange that he would write something like that to go on the front page of the leafs site
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
In my Opinion
Ulmer really doesn’t know what he is doing.
Seems like a nice guy, though.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 16, 2010 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke said he has about $5 million in salary cap room and may use it to ink a veteran forward such as Raffi Torres.
I certainly don’t take this to mean he’ll pay Raffi Torres $5M, but I do wonder how Burke sees $5M in cap space when the experts on this site are calculating the Leafs are already over-budget…?
by Leaf in Habland on Aug 16, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Burke admitted before pulling out the $5 million figure that he hasn’t calculated the cap and was guessing.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
This can’t be true and if it is, it’s unforgiveable.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 17, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
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