If Imitation is the Most Sincere Form of Flattery...

am grateful when we get articles translated from New Zealand English to North American English

I enjoyed this http://tinyurl.com/2cyl6ry sun article a lot more when I read it the first time here http://sbnation.com/e/1392950 . So is it Sun policy not to credit works that show up on blogs or do you just have to wait 2 business days before you can plagiarize?

Good morning,

Upon reading your piece regarding Frantisek Kaberle Sr’s comments on his son’s future from the Toronto Sun online today (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hockey/2010/08/19/15081386.html#/sports/hockey/2010/08/19/pf-15081386.html), I couldn’t help but notice some similarity with something I’d read previously. This is because much of it was lifted directly from an August 18 post on PensionPlanPuppets.com (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2010/8/18/1628909/frantisek-kaberle-sr-i-dont), posted without attribution of any kind.

Needless to say, this was a bit of a surprise from an outlet such as yours, which includes unambiguous language forbidding infringements of its own copyright, particularly for commercial purposes, near the top of its terms of service.

I know many in the media look up to Maureen Dowd, but I would not have expected that to be based on the Josh Marshall controversy. This is unethical, unprofessional, and – I hope you’ll agree – unacceptable. When I want plagiarism and wholly absent journalistic standards in sports reporting, I can already visit BleacherReport.com. I don’t expect the same from Sun Media, at least not yet.

Decreasingly likely to read the Sun,
<my real name>, Toronto

That went to the author, online editor, senior web editor, and editor in chief.

For the record, if you don’t see any resolution from the Sun, the Ontario Press Council handles complaints from the aggrieved party.

Good work, PPP Industries.

Don’t worry guys. Damien Cox is all over this.

“ever our”

Is that Steen on the left?

CH is a grammar nazi? This I never seemed to notice

Here is a translated quotation from Kaberle from PPP:

""The problem is his health. He suffered a concussion last season and there is the possibility of a similar blow to his head and it could even end up as finishing his hockey career. In this regard, such a trade for Toronto would have been very risky, " said Kaberle senior. "

And here is the quotation from the Sun article:

"The problem is his health. He suffered a concussion last season and there is the possibility of a similar blow to his head and it could even end up as finishing his hockey career. In this regard, such a trade for Toronto would have been very risky, " said Kaberle senior.

This just proves that the blogging world and Barilkosphere is way ahead of the curve when it comes to covering the Leafs. In two days, we’ll probably see articles that attempt to redefine “Top Six-Bottom Six”, and the need of the Leafs to improve their scoring by 15% to make the playoffs!

Hello Mr. Fuller,

I read your article titled ’Kaberle’s Dad Predicts a Trade’ and I could not help but notice similarities to a post I read on Pension Plan Puppets the day previous.

The translation is eerily similar to that done by Romdgpce on said blog. As a regular reader of Pension Plan Puppets I would be remiss not to make the connection that you have used this translation in your article.

Although I understand that the mainstream media generally does not like to acknowledge the credibility of certain blogging institutions I believe you should make it a point to identify where you received your translation from.

If someone else translated this interview for you then please forgive my insinuation.

If you did acquire it from Romdgpce off of Pension Plan Puppets, please make this clear via an acknowledgment clarification in your next article.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I know that as a journalist with integrity you will do what is right.

I then signed it and sent it.

Look what TSN has up right now.

I was the first to comment on this thread at TSN:

To those at TSN and reading this Article – This piece from the Sun was shamelessly stolen from Pension Plan Puppets user Romdgpce posted yesterday on the site. I know that it is not TSN’s fault for believing that the Sun and it’s authors have some form of journalistic integrity but this plagiarism needs to be addressed.

…but if someone can direct me to his bathroom…

Hmm, there was 3 comments on the site that they approved, and have now been removed.

Think someone there is doing some research?

I like stuff like this because we get new targets to take cheap shots at.

Plus the blog has a new headline now.

Good job sun media…

I heard them talking about this on the fan this morning and the host was crediting the Sun and the reporter in question. Ticked me off enough to sign up for sbnation (previously a lurker) account. Well done Toronto Sun!

Thanks! Says Puck Daddy, "We have it in headlines today. Least they could have done is acknowledge that PPP found the story first. What a joke. "

Don’t know if TSN reads any of their @s, but something like this is always worth trying to get back to them.

Fuller replied and didn’t go all Bill-o on me.

I think Skinny’s link to just Fuller was more than a little too kind. Your CC section (or perhaps forward your already sent message to):

dave.fuller@sunmedia.ca; james.wallace@sunmedia.ca; kevin.hann@sunmedia.ca; lorrie.goldstein@sunmedia.ca; irene.thomaidis@sunmedia.ca; brian.gray@sunmedia.ca; lance.hornby@sunmedia.ca; terry.koshan@sunmedia.ca; rob.longley@sunmedia.ca; bill.lankhof@sunmedia.ca; steve.simmons@sunmedia.ca

This is all the Sun’s editors and hockey beat writers. It’ll get through to someone with some sense.

Dear Sirs and Madam:

As a hockey blogger, hobbyist writer, proud member of the Barilkosphere and frequent visitor to the Pension Plan Puppets website, I was dismayed today to learn that the Toronto Sun had re-printed without full and complete attribution portions of an interview with Frantisek Kaberle Sr.

The original interview appeared in a Czech magazine called Hokej. One of my fellow PPP users was kind enough to spend time and effort to translate that interview into English so I, as an English speaker, could familiarize myself with what Mr. Kaberle had to say. It appears to me, from the substantial similarity of the two articles, that Mr. Fuller has simply expropriated that work and re-published it, without alerting readers of your publication that the material in question had been taken from another source.

It is my view that the decision to do so is flawed, both ethically and in practical terms. I would hope that the ethical concerns are self-evident to all who make a living in your field.

In practice, it seems to me that difficulties may arise when other media outlets themselves re-publish the Sun’s story, as TSN did earlier today; in the event of an error in the original translation, for example, the error would be incorrectly attributed by responsible outlets (those identifying the source of their re-published reports) as emanating from your paper.

I know that there has already been some discussion of this matter between Mr. Fuller, Mr. Wallace and some individuals who have expressed concern about this matter. Some of that (incomplete) discussion has been published on pensionplanpuppets.com earlier today. The Sun’s attitude towards this matter, as expressed in the reprinted passages, is disconcerting and unsatisfactory.

I urge you to do the right and responsible thing. In the short run, I would suggest giving credit where credit is due – in this case, to the individual whose facility with the Czech language the Sun is today using to make money, and to the site on which that work was published. In the longer run, it would seem that a review of The Sun’s policies, or perhaps the familiarity of your writers with existing policies as they pertain to re-publishing works originally located online is in order.

[signed, etc]

Hi, I’m a corporate whore (and lawyer), and also a Canucks fan, so feel free to hate what I say, but I have a different perspective, which I’m re-posting and paraphrasing from a comment I made on Nucksmisconduct:

The chain of events as I understand them:
1. Original Czech source publishes story online
2. PPP translates story, puts in its entirety on its own website without adding anything (but does acknowledge source)… gets to keep all revenue associate with this posting (granted likely to be minimal). NEVER HAD ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO DO THIS.
3. Toronto Sun plagiarizes the TRANSLATION from PPP, but acknowledges the source of the article—the one that actually has original content rights. Only publishes excerpts with its own added commentary (this is a ‘fair use’ exception to copyright law).

What the Sun did is unethical, but I suppose they could make the argument that since what PPP did was ILLEGAL, they didn’t deserve any acknowledgment. I think that’s still unethical, but I think it’s a legitimate point. If you guys at PPP weren’t being so whiny over your supposed rights, I would call the situation a wash. But since you are, I side with the Sun on this one. Sorry.

Because of copyright law.
A translation of a piece of work is a derivative piece of work, which requires permission of the rightsholder. Otherwise, what’s to stop me from translating any book I want and then sell it? Just because something is available on a freely accessible website doesn’t mean anyone else can publish it anywhere else they want, where THEY get to keep the ad revenue, rather than the original author.

Now, had you just posted excerpts of the original article, whether in translation or not, then you would be in the clear under a ‘fair use’ exception for media (media can do this for commentary/analysis/criticism/review or inherent newsworthiness). This is what the Sun did. They also failed to say they used part of your translation, which I agree is wrong, but it’s merely unethical rather than illegal.

I DM’d PPP about this earlier, but I’d really, really, really like to remind everybody that the translation was done as merely a favor. It was never posted here by my buddy. I posted his translation, as a reply in one of our FTB’s. He didn’t steal it maliciously in some attempt for monetary gain.

Rom is not going around claiming his rights have been violated, or that his “original work” as it’s been called, was stolen. So it’s all well and good for everyone else to talk legalese until they’re blue in the face, but that simply is not the case here.

I could really give two shits about who owns what and whatever other pissing contests we’d like to have. I just think that the Sun’s outright refusal to add a blurb saying something to the effect of where the translation of quotes originated from is the real crux of the issue.

Kindly keep your bar room lawyer expertise to yourself. This goes for both PPPers and visitors. My buddy works as a translator and teacher in the Czech Republic and he merely translated something as a personal favor, nothing more. If it puts his job at risk somehow, then I will feel really, REALLY, REALLY shitty. Keep in mind that while we all safely sit here talking about who can sue whom.

If TSN/CBC/Sportsnet had published what you guys did the S** would have been all over giving them credit like Kyle Wellwood at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

But apparently S** Media thinks they can bully you guys.

Pratt was once employed by the Vancouver Province to write editorial articles about the Canucks. In one of his first articles he did not attribute a quote to a source and was quickly removed from his position.
Shall I look up this info and pass it along to the Toronto Sun as an example of how a “respectable” newspaper handles such a situation?

His latest piece is total garbage AND he ripped off the theme from Damien’s piece which was last week’s garbage. Seriously, a “festering” problem in a “dressing room” when there hasn’t even been a training camp yet. Sensationalist conjecture not based on any substance or fact. I thought when Damien wrote it that it was borderline tabloid-junk, but I assumed he was under time pressure to create some spin the day after the no-trade clause passed. But Fuller’s had a week to come up with this angle and it’s not even original or the least bit insightful. This guy should be writing for Bleacher Report.

You are right in that we should have asked permission to post our translation as it stands. I was completely unaware of that fact but SBN’s lawyer has informed the hockey bloggers (because we’re more likely to do translations) that there are some steps we should be taking.

However, the fact remains that the inspiration for the story AND the actual translation was stolen from this site without attribution. Now, you can characterize someone standing up in order to see the right thing done as ‘whiny’ and that’s your own opinion.

Trying to create a moral equivalency between ignorance of the proper procedure (sorry, not a trained reporter) and outright theft is disturbing from someone that is supposedly trained as a lawyer. Then again, all I need to do is look at your screen name to know that you are likely the same kind of person that defended Todd Bertuzzi’s physical assault on Steve Moore because “Moore hit Naslund high”.

when did that Important Update get there?