The Toronto Sun Steals From Blogs
Specifically, Dave Fuller lifts ideas for stories and the necessary translated quotations from this community. One of the beauties of this group of Leafs fans (and various other teams) is that there is a vast and diverse fanbase that brings a unique outlook to being a Leafs fan. Last Tuesday, it meant that we were lucky enough to have an interview with Tomas Kaberle's father translated from Czech into English. It was picked up by a couple of websites that are home to hardcore Leafs fans but pretty much ignored otherwise.
Then a funny thing happened.
On Friday morning, I noticed in my google reader that The Toronto Sun had written an article about Frantisek Kaberle Sr. Normally I would ignore anything in The Sun but I was curious about whether there was anything new coming from the Kaberle pater familias. You can probably imagine my surprise when it was nothing more than a re-working of the original Hokej.cz piece including Romdgpce's translated quotes verbatim.
After the jump, the proof and fallout of James Wallace's decision to obfuscate the truth and dismiss proper ethics.
It goes without saying that we were more than a little miffed at seeing something so obviously copied from the site used without attribution so fired off an e-mail to Dave Fuller and his editor James Wallace:
Hi Dave,
Just wanted to drop you a line about your latest article (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hockey/2010/08/19/15081386.html) about Frantisek Kaberle Sr.'s comments to Hokej.cz. Much as I did two days ago (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2010/8/18/1628909/frantisek-kaberle-sr-i-dont) it is considered proper etiquette to at least acknowledge the source of your work. Doubly so when they are the ones that went through the trouble of translating an article into English.
I'll dramatically withhold the rest of the e-mail. The response was pretty different than what Bill Houston offered up (part of me was disappointed):
Appreciate your email. Yes, that's where I found the story - on your site. You also included a link to the original story. Clicked on that. Copied the Czech language story, put it into Google Translation (Czech to English) and read the story through. (thus checking your translation - too ensure accuracy). I gave credit twice to the source of the story - Hokej magazine. Perhaps I could have added, "which was first translated in Pension Plan Puppets," but that's over-crediting, in my opinion.
Of course, it seems to be standard practice to have provided the Toronto Sun with credit for "stumbling upon" the Czech article. Strange how that's done when the source is part of the traditional media. A special glove tap to both Scott Lewis, for passing the article to The Score's news desk, The Score's news desk for handling this story the proper way regardless of a blog being the source, and Greg Wyshynski for getting Yahoo! to set the record straight.
So we have an author who admits that he would never have heard of the Kaberle story if not for visiting Pension Plan Puppets which he called 'great' and 'tapped in' and a translation that was done on Google Translation and 'checked against' Romdgpce's. James Wallace has yet to reply to either of my e-mails to him on the topic, seemingly out of an inability to identify the sender of an e-mail, but he did provide a reply that demonstrates his contempt for journalistic ethics:
Fuller credited the source magazine (Czech hockey magazine Hokej) for the quotes used in our article. While he read the translated article first on the pensionplanpuppets website, he checked the original article and quotes thorough Google Translate. Attributing quotes to another source is not plagiarism.
We gather information from a variety of sources, including blogs, tweet, etc. Newspapers are not websites. We don't credit links. The Czech magazine and it's writer are the originating source of the news and thus deserve credit - not you or your website.
Right out of the demagogue's playbook: repeat a lie often enough and people will begin to take it as the truth. This reply is where you can see James Wallace's dishonesty and his desire to do whatever it takes to keep from acknowledging that Dave Fuller stole his piece from our website. First off, a Broad Street Hockey commenter that lives in the Czech Republic was kind enough to point out that Hokej.cz is actually just a website. Secondly, here's an example of a Sun Media writer doing what blogs do often and well: taking an idea, crediting the source, and expanding on it. And what major print media did the writer source? Buffalo Rumblings. Coincidentally, another SBN site. The Toronto Sun: Just like SB Nation but shitty and two days late.
The other claim that is hilarious is that Dave Fuller completed the translation on his own. Online translation programs are notoriously terrible unless you have some idea of what you are trying to get from them especially with Eastern European languages. I think that any reasonable person (which excludes James Wallace from the conversation) will admit that Bower Power's line-by-line comparison of the two pieces makes this an open and shut case that Fuller copied the quotations and did no translating on his own. Or, as someone on twitter remarked, it's a copy and paste case.
But was it plagiarism? Well, Doogie2K provided a helpful link to the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Paris Text 1971):
(3) Translations, adaptations, arrangements of music and other alterations of a literary or artistic work shall be protected as original works without prejudice to the copyright in the original work.
I am not sure about how that would apply to Canadian Copyright Law but I have decided to put some feelers out to see if some light can be shed on how Canada handles translations. There was some discussion about whether we even had the legal right to post a translation in the first place. SBN's lawyer did send the hockey group new guidelines for working on translations but Hokej.cz has not contacted us to complain or replied to my e-mail. It also doesn't excuse the Sun as some professional apologists have suggested since two wrongs don't make a right.
It sure feels like James Wallace's determination to paint these quotations as in the public domain because they appeared in Czech on Hokej.cz's website suggests that he has some thought that something untoward was done. But God forbid he admit it, apologise, and seek to make amends. A blog focused on the Toronto Sun family noted the plagiarism story originally and reached out to James Wallace for reply. Seeing as it wasn't me e-mailing him he saw fit to reply and once again tried to twist the facts:
To be clear, we did see the story first on the sports blog. Then we did what journalists are supposed to do - checked the original article from Hokej, ran it through Google Translate and did our own work to validate and rework the quotes for accuracy.
"Quotes, as you're aware, are part of the public record and it's acceptable journalistic practice to use quotations from another source particularly if they are properly attributed.
"That's what we did, attributed quotes we used in our story to Hokej, which actually invested the resources into interviewing Kaberle's father and producing the original story.
Funny how he won't mention the name of the site. The part about doing their own work is false based on even the most generous reading of Bower Power's comparison. As for his attempt to paint the quotations as part of public domain it makes sense as a strategy as MF37 found that the Canadian Association of Journalists are pretty clear on what needs to be done when borrowing a story:
There is no copyright on news or ideas once a story is in the public domain, but if we can’t match the story, we will credit the originating source. While news and ideas are there for the taking, the words used to convey them are not. If we borrow a story or even a paragraph from another source we will rewrite it before it is published or broadcast. It we do not rewrite it, we will credit the source because failure to do so is plagiarism. Using another’s analysis or interpretation may constitute plagiarism, even if the words are rewritten, unless it is attributed. This is especially true for columnists.
The other outlets that credited the Toronto Sun did so for the very same reason that the Sun should have credited us with the story: because they were unable to corroborate the quotations with Frantisek Kaberle Sr since this was a one-on-one interview and not a press conference (Dave Fuller's favourite wrongheaded example), they did not contact Hokej.cz, and they couldn't translate the article on their own.
Now, I promised you the other half of my original e-mail and you'll see why I actually had to laugh when I got home last night and saw that Dave "Open Source Content" Fuller had copied yet another story from this website:
If you are stuck for more content, we also had a reader translate an article about Jonas Gustavsson (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2010/8/18/1629546/monster-loaded-for-a-difficult-year) from HockeyExpressen.se. All I would ask is that you acknowledge who provided the lead.
Best Regards and thanks for reading,
PPP
Call me crazy but I think that Dave Fuller might not understand the concept of sarcasm. It was made all the more disappointing considering that this was how Dave Fuller had left things before:
Next time, and I’m sure there will be one, I’ll figure out a way to give double credit without it seeming too wordy/awkward, etc.
Wonder if he ran the idea past James Wallace and it was shot down or if Fuller thought that giving me the brush off would bring an end to this episode? You'd think that they would have wanted to brush this under the carpet before a Google search for "Toronto Sun Plagiarism" put this story at the top of the results. Or before the stories racked up about 100 re-tweets and around 50 shares on Facebook. Or before, as you can see below, many different websites chimed in (and oddly no word outside of Twitter from a single MSM guy) on the story. And those are the ones that wrote posts that I bothered to hunt down. I saw a half dozen more that linked to the story to kick off discussions.
As for what comes next (I know everyone's in suspense), I will be following up on MF37's recommendations to approach both the Canadian Journalism Project and the Organization of News Ombudsmen as well as puckurgently's suggestion to file a complaint with the Ontario Press Council. In addition, I'll check out if there's any legal recourse. Basically, since I've received some good feedback from other bloggers, a member of the MSM, and everyone here we're going to pursue this as far as we can. Hopefully we'll get some redress. If not, then we'll always have a couple of new memes.
More Reaction From The Blogosphere
Bloggers Deserve More Respect - Blueshirt Banter
Nick looks at one of the issues around the Sun's response: a lack of respect.
The Puck Stops Here : Hockey Blogging Comes Of Age
Talking to Greg Wyshynski and Tyler Dellow Sunday night we mentioned this as well. Swiping ideas can be very easy...can be unless you're being watched Fuller.
Red Line Station: Don't Take a Translation Without Citing
You would think that it would be common sense.
Adventures In Plagiarism: Toronto Sun Blatantly Rips Off Leafs Blog, Then Defends Themselves - Broad Street Hockey
An example of why Travis is the SBN league manager.
Pension Plan Puppets vs Toronto Sun: The Latest Battlefield in Old vs New? - Hockey Wilderness
As Bryan sayds "Nothing in the world of old vs new is ever simple." It's a constant struggle but it really probably doesn't need to result in swiping stories.
Tomas Kaberle's father figures he'll be traded this year, sparks Internet firestorm over plagiarism - ProHockeyTalk
It is certainly ironic that a member of the traditional media would do something that would cause aneurysms if they were a blogger.
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Comments
…let’s turn it green, people.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Aug 24, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
…ahh, crap, I haven’t had my morning tea yet. You can’t turn a post green. But you can rec it. A lot.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Aug 24, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I get it
Alright, I think we get it, they quasi-plagiarized or whatever you want to call it. I belive it is time to turn the page and get back to what this site is all about. Credit is simply that…credit. Do you not get enough satisfaction to break the story before those chumps? Or do you need to see your name in the paper? Let’s get back to our beloved Leafs…the reason I frequent this site.
by LeafNation on Aug 24, 2010 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Chemmy made a comment to me the other day on this, (paraphrasing) “Fuller is unlucky that this happened during the off-season when there is nothing else going on to talk about.”
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Welcome
Thanks for joining. Not sure if you noticed but there’s not much going on in Leafland. Also, the reason I write the site is because I get to write about whatever I want to.
As for wanting credit, it wasn’t my translation so it wouldn’t be my credit. Knowing that we, for the third or fourth time, got the jump on the mittenstringers is nice but it would be better if more people knew about it. This is about the principal of the theft. So until I get bored or I get a resolution I’ll write about it. Feel free to ignore those posts.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
You are much kinder than I would have been.
Hockey Wilderness
Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
Follow-up
I can absolutely appreciate the frustration that plagiarism (yet I’m still not completey convinced that it is) can cause. I don’t know, maybe it’s just me but when I think of blogs such as this site and MLHS, another favorite, I think of many people getting together to comment and blog on the team and sport (regardless if there is not much going on)…not several posts accusing the MSM of plagiarising and countless links backing it up….don’t let the “big boys” get to you, they’re leafs coverage does not count for shit compared to the blogs…..let’s concentrate on some more advanced statistics…or perhaps some possible forward acquisitions….thats the stuff I can read again and again.
Talking about Kaberle is like beating a dead horse, as is acquiring that mysterious first line LWer.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
D'Amigo
doesn’t count I guess?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The untested 19 year old that hasn’t played a game in the AHL, let alone the N? No, I don’t think he does. Not until he plays a preseason game, at least.
Hopefully that’ll change in a month.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
by Bower Power on Aug 24, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Not much going on. Line combos are ethereal, I think we might have literally beat the advanced stats into the ground over last season, trade speculation is pointless…
There literally is nothing to write about until September but then you’ll be overloaded with the stuff you enjoy.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I have actually
considered writing a piece to try and explain some of the advanced stats stuff as best I can… I’ve noticed some confusion while I’ve been gone around Corsi QoC and Rel Corsi QoC for instance.
Either way.. yeah it’s the dog days at this point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be great actually.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I'll work on it today
I’ve got nothing else to do – aside from watching all the episodes of entourage that I missed while I was away.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU DIDN’T MISS MUCH
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
On the same page. Just proposed the PPP stats guide for dummies.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
This posting from last Dec
by Mirtle might be a good place for people to start…. the GVT and Delta discussion doesn’t come up though on there.
http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/12/3/1183549/a-beginners-guide-to-the-new-stats
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
So..
let’s concentrate on some more advanced statistics…or perhaps some possible forward acquisitions….thats the stuff I can read again and again.
This has been covered to death and we’re bored to shit? Need new material… fast…
There's always money in the banana stand.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 24, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s August and can’t let them think that this kind of behaviour is acceptable.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I’m very interested to see how far you can take this. It’s through the work of people like you (I mean this in a good way) that new precedents are set. The MSM is literally figuring this out as they go along, and if you let things like this go, then it only exacerbates the situation. There are certainly nuances because this was about translated quotes and not an out-and-out lifting of a post, but you are absolutely right to make a stand.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Aug 24, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
This is not just a Leaf blog, this is a community. The site has multiple threads. The FTB is where most of the hockey talk is. If you want to discuss hockey, go there.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Ok…sorry to offend your community? I am only trying to bring up a point…I guess an image of what I see as the purpose of this website…again I can appreciate the frustration, but let’s move on….speaking of which, whats with everyone saying stuff like “its August…nothing to talk about”…please…it’s hockey, theres always something we can find to talk about.
Here’s something: Leafs need a forward…where can we find value out there? Patrick O’Sullivan? Andrew Cogliano? Pretty sure we could talk this subject to death a little more.
Isn’t one of the points of the blog to create something to talk about?
This posting
in specific is referencing the question of plagiarism and the relationship between the MSM and PPP. If you don’t wish to partake of that discussion, you can always participate in the conversation in ANOTHER posting.
Entering the conversation on a thread devoted to the issue you don’t want to talk about seems sort of inane.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Patrick O’Sullivan’s been covered. As have a host of others.
If you have someone in mind, throw up a fanshot and we’ll discuss that.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
O’Sullivan has been talked about in a FanPost – We decided on “No, he sucks.”
Cogliano is yet another 3rd line forward who would be expensive, which is something the Leafs currently have a stockpile of. And he’s an RFA so how would you sign him cause Burke hates offer sheets.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Also
how many SPCs do the leafs currently have on tap? With the addition of D’amigo they’re probably pretty close to the 60 limit aren’t they?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm counting
49 on capgeek…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
They currently sit at 49; but three of those are attributed to Devane, D’Amigo, and Blacker who could all play in the OHL taking their contracts “off the books” for this season.
Resigning Hanson would make for an even 50.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Speaking of Hanson, what’s going on with him?
Has Burke given up on him?
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 24, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
D'Amigo
can play in the AHL… because he played in the NCAA… and I don’t think any of the CHL teams have his rights do they?
I think he’s on the books no matter what in all probability.
Blacker and Devane would probably go back though you’re right.
I don’t know what’s up with Hanson but I’d say based on the lack of a change it doesn’t look good for him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
There was some talk that he and Burke had an agreement – something along the lines that D’Amigo would be given a shot at NHL or AHL next year, no OHL. Not sure if there’s any truth to it, but I think I’d consider it unlikely that D’Amigo has left the NCAA to go to the OHL.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
Kitchener has his rights and he is eligible to play in the OHL or AHL. He’s a special case.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
K
I was unaware of the Kitchener thing, but I can’t see him going from playing in the NCAA and outplaying most of the other talent at the World Juniors and wanting to drop back into the CHL.
I’d guess it’s NHL or AHL for him… which means his contract stays on the books.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, which I’m totally cool with. It’s the contracts made this off season for “AHL veterans” and crap prospects like Brayden Irwin that I don’t understand.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Yeah, I’m really struggling to see where Irwin fits in the system now. Though we’ve only seen him in 2 games, I just don’t see him winning out the “competition slot,” which leaves him in an awkward position…AHL bound?
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
I'd guess AHL
you’re also forgetting the likes of Mikhail Stefanovich, Dale Mitchell, Simon Gysbers, and Ben Scrivens…
they should be quite solid, if young, actually. I expect growing pains, but that’s the whole point of the AHL.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
oh and
Mikus, and Mueller, etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
actually
the overwhelming majority voted YES on O’Sullivan…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd take a flyer
on O’Sullivan… if he can come relatively cheap at least.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
His
Delta numbers are pretty stellar… and yet his +/- numbers have been atrocious for a few years. I think that has more to do with Edmonton’s lack of D than anything personally… but that may just be me.
Either way, I think he’s probably underrated at this point. We need an offensive player, not a defensive specialist anyway.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
My vote weighs more heavily than others because I’m cool like that.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Plus
you’re a doctor
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
FREE MAMMOGRAMS FOR THOSE WHO VOTE MY WAY!
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Wait
am I wrong in thinking the whole med school exam thing was recent?
I thought med school took years to complete (outside of various 3rd world nations that is).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah he just got his MCAT scores back and still needs to be accepted to Med School…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
technicalities!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 24, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
med school is a mere formality for Sir Dr Skinny Fish MD, PhD, LLC BBQ esquire
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Knighthood?
How is he going to become a knight without being a subject of the British Empire?… or any monarchy for that matter?
And now you’re adding in law school, and a philosophical doctorate? Jeez… when he gets out of school he’ll be 90…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
At Hollywood Upstairs Medical College, it’s only a 2 week summer course.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
1-800-DOCTORB. The B is for bargain!
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 24, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
haha! skype actually wants to dial this for me.
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 24, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a shame that you don’t have the ability to start any sort of discussion. If only we had some sort of system with which you could create a Fan-based discussion. Possibly one of two separate systems, a short “shot” version if all you want to do is spit a name out, or a longer, “post” system if you have an argument to make…
Ah, well. No point in just wishing. Carry on with the complaining.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
complaining? its not complaining, its simply arguing the other side of this…playing devil’s advocate if you will…My argument is incredibly relevant to the discussion…is this an issue worth beating to death (reminds me of the kaberle rumors)…my opinion is to let it go…to take the high road, but in the end that is up to the original translator….
so
do all of the above? let people do what they will?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I know it may seem like there’s been a lot of coverage on this issue, but there hasn’t been an official “site” position until this post, if you will.
I doubt we’ll see daily posts from now on, but this happened on Friday, happened again on Saturday, Sunday there was nothing new, then PPP summarized and stated the official position today. How is that beating this to death??
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
6/7 of the latest posts relate to this issue…most of which include links to other articles/blogs that talk about the same issue….it’s just too much for me…but that’s me…to each is own, I’ll leave it at that and return once the hockey comes back
again, recent event + lack of other Leafs/ hockey/ news + a summer of beating the absolute piss out of everything kaberle, UFA, trade, whatever related = a generous amount of discussion on this topic
you continuing to play this “I wanna talk about something else” game only extends it.
You wanna talk about something else, go to the appropriate thread and start talking about it.
Not a difficult process
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't read it.
It’s pretty simple. It’s like changing the channel on the television if you don’t like what is on.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
No
It’s not relevant. There is a topic in this thread and it’s not “why aren’t you writing something else?”
The high road does not involve rolling over and letting someone screw you over.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
There are literally dozen of articles on this site written by myself, Chemmy, contributors, and members of the community addressing all of the issues that interest you. There is even one about Patrick O’Sullivan. Feel free to jump into them and ask your question.
There is even the morning link dump which is posted solely to discuss hockey.
If you do not like what is being discussed in a thread then it’s pretty simple: Don’t read it or don’t comment.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
None of my business, but..
You say that one of the points of this blog is to create something to talk about… I think a SHITLOAD of people have been talking about the BLATANT plagiarism that took place. As writers, it’s something we can’t stand for. If you’re not a writer, maybe you don’t understand, but stealing is stealing.
I don’t get how you can be unsure that they commited plagiarism.I don’t buy for one second that a run through google translate would give the same thing as the actual translator wrote. Plus, they’re clearly doing their best to hide that they’ve stolen Romdgpiece’s work. I’ve translated a few pieces from french to english on Hockey Wilderness and let me tell you, google translate can’t accurately translate regional terms and whatnot. Let me give you an example:
French: J’avais pas fait exprès (In Quebec and New-Brunswick, it’s common to omit using ’’ne’’ in front of the verb. The proper way to say this sentence would be ‘’Je n’avais pas fait exprès’’)
Google translate: I had not done on purpose, which is false
Correct translation: I hadn’t done it on purpose or I didn’t do it on purpose.
If you try ‘’Je n’avais pas fait exprès’’ on google translate, it translates to: I did not mean it, which is accurate, but you could also say I didn’t do it on purpose
You see? There are too many variations to believe that Fuller would’ve had the same line-for-line translation on many points of his article.
JS, Champion of the first ever Hockey Wilderness Playoff Bracket Challenge! WHOOOOOOOO!
twitter: BubbleWild48
Thanks for the comment. That’s a great example.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Sorry, LeafNation
but it seems to me that you don’t get it. It’s actually very simple: when you use original work that belongs to others, you must give credit. There’s no gray area. A translation is original work. You call the Sun’s act “quasi-plagiarized”, but there’s no such thing: There obviously was an act of plagiarisim by the Sun, and turning the page would simply reinforce those people that they can do as they please. It is not a question of “seeing your name in the paper”, it’s a question of ensuring that those chumps (good choice of word) know that they must act correctly.
You Can Do It!
Yes you can do it! Cut their fucking heads off!
Wait, what?
by Dany Heatley Speedwagon on Aug 24, 2010 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
i always pictured chemmy as more of a rob schneider…
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 24, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m surprised at how cut and dry this issue was to a lot of people. i really wasn’t sure how a translation should be treated, and when i posed the question to some friends over dinner on saturday, they also unanimously thought that a translation wasn’t an original piece of work. apparently university doesn’t cover these things.
anyways, a good learning experience, and further evidence – as if it was needed – that the Sun is a hack paper, and the Barilkosphere is a the best source for Leafs news. Speaking of which, is it the preseason yet?
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Agree
I think having guidelines for translations is a good outcome.
The season can’t start soon enough. Dave Fuller should have plagiarised in December when we weren’t sitting around bored out of our skulls.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Do we have to cite Berger when using this meme?
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 24, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t we all agree it was overused and should be put to bed?
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 24, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Affirmative.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
I can still use the Chiarelli has people on hold meme though, right?
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 24, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t everyone north of the Mason-Dixon agree to this?
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 24, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
All of this is moot unless the agreement was reached in November.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 24, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
funny thing
it was
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess it’s a good thing that’s not my profession of choice!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
i vote to keep ‘in november…’ going, but retire all ‘suits/sushi at the ACC’ jokes. talk about dead.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Is it because you don’t like the joke, or because you sit in those seats? I kid I kid
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
bit of both!
and for the record, i only sit in the fancy seats a few times a year. usually it’s blues/purples.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
Man I don’t even go to a few leaf games a year. No sympathy from me!!
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I’ve never been to a Leafs game at the ACC so…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t either. I still even call the ACC “the new building.”
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Nice.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 24, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m going to assume – from the 1984 in your handle – you’re about 26. my budget for games when I was 26 – almost 8 years ago – was $0. if i got to one freebie a year courtesy of the bank i worked for i was pretty happy.
the last few years i’ve been lucky, i’ve got access to a couple of reasonably-priced sets of seasons tix so i can go a few times a year. i rarely pay for lower bowl tix – $200 is a ripoff – and i’m generally only there if my buddy’s corporate clients bail. we get shitfaced and berate the visiting team / amuse the other lower bowl patrons that aren’t expecting profanities from a couple of suits.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
no, because i like sushi.
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 24, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we all learned something here, to be honest.
It’s just funny that people who want to tell us we’re wrong are focusing on the fact that we don’t have a plagiarism case per se. We know that: that’s why our lawyer isn’t in touch with the Sun already.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Even that’s not set in stone based on what I was told by a friend the other night.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I sort of want to get in touch with Hokej.cz and get the a-ok just to write a hilariously smug post.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Taking first-year university english, my prof always would say that the greatest writer in history was Dante, and the second-greatest was his translator.
There’s some good respect for the efforts out there, perhaps it’s just not universal.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
I’ve read a ton of Inferno translations. Some are amazing, some are awful. That’s been my reference through all this.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Actually I’m glad to hear you say that, because we tried to listen to it on a long car ride using books-on-tape, and it nearly killed us with the boredom. Must’ve been a lousy translation.
Some of them are fucking horrific.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I like the Singleton translation:
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Actually, you could make a strong argument that the King James Bible is an independent work regardless of your opinion on translations, but that’s another story…
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
by Bower Power on Aug 24, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he’s being sarcastic.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Oh. WOOSH on me, then.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
by Bower Power on Aug 24, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I like
that one of the current Google ads on the side is for a “Free Check for Plagiarism”. Could have saved the Sun a headache, and not cost anything either!

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
by Semi_Colon on Aug 24, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It's Official...
the internet loves us.
Our two best players are cavemen. What is this? Geico?
by thejohnkeating on Aug 24, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
lol google ads. Always know how to get some irony in there.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
Yesterday I got an ad for SFU’s diploma in translation…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting, but who gives a fuck about the Seattle Thunderbirds?
Now with 25% fewer operable limbs.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 24, 2010 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent post, as usual. I truly hope my post did not come off as condoning the actions of Mr. Fuller. What he did is despicable at best, illegal at worst.
I love that you are taking it to the organizations, might I also suggest the Professional Hockey Writer’s Association?
Hockey Wilderness
Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
I thought your post was very even and made everything a bit clearer.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Your post was excellent.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 24, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't speak for Rom
but I for one am amazed at the life this story within a story has taken on.
Every write up on the issue has been thorough and well written. Thanks for supporting my buddy!
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
I am so amazed
as well as to how far this has gone. Definitely a positive step forward for blogs. And a lot of negativity has been raised towards mainstream tabloids like the Sun.
I just want Fuller to know that the next time I translate an article from a Czech source, that I will get full permission to translate it and post it only on PPP, and that no Google translate will be used, thus rendering any of his excuses obsolete.
First, thank you a million times for your help here.
Second, you only need permission to reprint in full. If we link to their article and you only translate direct quotes we should be in the clear.
Getting permission would be fun though. Do you think you could get in touch with the Hokej.cz guys and ask for forgiveness/permission? That would shut up everyone saying we fucked up.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
A. you’re awesome
B. you’re cool
C. I am working on the cheddar.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
It is totally amazing
to see how far this has gone.
It really has been so much fun!
Next time I translate an article from a Czech source, I will make sure that 1. I get permission to translate it, 2. no Google translator will be used; then that little punk Fuller can’t use that as his lame excuse.
Uh oh. Fuller has figured out how to change Romdog’s wording ever so slightly.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
For your troubles, I’m willing to introduce you to some hot Czech girls in Prague. You just let me know.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Oh, thanks, but to meet hot girls in Prague is no problem. Actually, to meet hot girls here all the time, every time of the day, no matter where the hell I am, is no problem at all.
I have more of a problem even getting a glimpse of something remotely “hot” on the North American continent. Next time, if you happen to know something remotely even “so-so” hot when I am in Canada or the US, it would be greatly appreciated.
Suckers …. Hehe … ;-)
OUCH!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this guy.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
He insulted your girlfriend too!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
you aren’t counted, because the good ones are taken.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 24, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
suck up
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Just being nice
Thought I would change it up from being the asshole I normally am.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 24, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
My hot roller derby wife could beat up your hot Czech girl any day of the week. :P
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll have to test this. I’ll get the kiddie pool, Jared, get the jello.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
It has to be one of those turtle ones with the slide.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 24, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
When considering the legality of the translation, you’d have to use either Czech or Swedish copyright law, as that is where the original articles were copyrighted.
I’d have argued that yesterday but i didn’t think it would accomplish anything.
I also imagine the canadian copyright law hates translation because there are two official languages in Canada.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
Translations
come with their own copyrights.
Also… the plagiarism was done in Canada, so their intellectual property laws are actually more relevant.
It’s like when a Chinese company rips off plans for a design created in Canada, the Chinese intellectual property laws matter a lot more than Canada’s do.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Also
as for the translation thing being “hated” by Canadian Copyright law… I’d imagine there are a lot of relevant cases directly as a result of the whole bilingualism issue… not to mention the fact that Canada is one of the most multiethnic nations on the planet. It’s relevant to the Canadian legal system and probably a bigger issue here than many other places.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Though now i’m confused. How exactly can, say, sleza’s article be under canadian law, the original work is from sweden, it was published by someone in finland, on servers that are almost certainly in the united states…
Leave it to the internet to confuse things.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
I also imagine the canadian copyright law hates translation because there are two official languages in Canada.
This point confuses me.
...sometimes I wake up cradling a gourd.
Speaking of Howard Berger
Look which MSM member just gave PPP the proper acknowledgement.
http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/nothingbutleafs/2010/08/24/no-avoiding-leafs-talk-at-summit/
“The point I’m making is that Frantisek Sr. has a wealth of hockey experience, and was certainly empowered to speak from the heart about his son last week. He probably had no idea his comments would venture beyond the Czech Republic, but nothing is sacred in the Internet era. His translated remarks were first made public by the Leafs-devoted website Pension Plan Puppets. Burke, however, would have nothing of the accusation that Tomas Kaberle and Ron Wilson are oil and water in the dressing room.”
(Note that the inclusion of that link indicates I have sourced and cited that quote …)
"One day, we'll be perfect." - The Tao of Stieb
Wow.
Good on Berger.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I would assume that since Berger’s affiliated with Hockeybuzz, he’s probably more sensitive to blogs than most MSM members.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I love that Damien Cox and others have tried to push this under the rug by saying “blogs steal quotes from the MSM all the time”.
I can’t speak for everyone who’s ever made a tiny Leafs blog or Bleacher Report but I’ve never seen an unattributed quote here, at MLHS, or any of the big Leafs blogs.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
He’s basically saying that we’re guilty by association. Well it’s widely known that journalists in the past and now present have stolen quotes, so therefore by Cox’s retarded logic he too is guilty. Whatever happened to developing thoughts on a case by case basis?
Damien Cox – Master of the Incorrect Stereotype
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Neither have I. One of the greatest advantages for bloggers is most are not profit-driven, and can thus operate more as a network as opposed to competing with each other. MSM is still primarily focussed on having the scoop that no one else does … especially with profits in a tailspin … the last thing most of them want to do is redirect people to another site for fear they may not come back. Whereas in the Barilkosphere, that sort of concern doesn’t exist.
New media = new world order.
"One day, we'll be perfect." - The Tao of Stieb
by GarrettBauman on Aug 24, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
New media = new world order.
I motion that the Barilkosphere be renamed The Wolf Pack.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Second, dibs on Wolf Pack Sting.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 24, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as we’ve got you here; we’re thinking about getting together in a bar for the second game of the season: HNIC against the Sens.
We should get everybody together from here and MLHS and get tanked.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Done.
Will let the MLHS crew know. Be good to see you guys again.
"One day, we'll be perfect." - The Tao of Stieb
by GarrettBauman on Aug 24, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I will not go on a bender the night before this time which will allow me to get properly shitfaced.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Everytime I have met up with the PPP crew I drive downtown, I think I may have to TTC it down this time
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
That's probably a good idea.
Park bench works well as a place to crash. Last time I did that I woke up with five bucks change scatterred on the ground next to me. Score.
"One day, we'll be perfect." - The Tao of Stieb
by GarrettBauman on Aug 24, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Park benches? Pssshh
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
leafer’s Italian. He’ll sleep on a bed made from his own hair gel.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Dick.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Having just returned from Italy
I was actually surprised at how many Italian stereotypes are based purely on North American 2nd/3rd/4th generation Italians… European Italians weren’t really like the idiots on Jersey Shore at all particularly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
No one on the jersey shore is actually of Italian descent, or so i’ve heard.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
So they just wish they were?
Wow…
although… to be fair, I bet that the Italian American community would be spreading that even if it wasn’t true.
On another note, Italian television IS as fucking weird as it seems when I watch it here… now that I’ve watched a lot of it I still have no fucking clue why it’s so weird.
Although there was this one bizarre game show that pitted devils against holy water as teams (basically bad guys vs. good guys) and had them do some pretty funny stuff.
Basically all the degenerates ended up on the devil side, and all the nice clean cut types end up on the holy water side. Sort of bizzarre.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m nothing like the idiots on Jersey Shore
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
True
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I dunno I see a lot of Snooki in you.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
short, stacked and orange?
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s just mean.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
You know there’s nothing but love for you here.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
/hugs
/ass groping
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Does that mean
you’re your own special kind of idiot?
I kid.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
you’re your own special kind of idiot?
No need to kid, it’s sadly true. However, aren’t we all?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
It’s all about sleeping on the grass 2 feet from the sidewalk on Queen West…
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Trinity Bellwoods?
I’m trying to think about where you’re finding grass on Queen West… unless you’re referring to narcotics in which case I digress.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
In front of CAMH. I may or may not have had my shirt on.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
wow CAMH
lucky they lock the crazies up at night.
I actually had an interesting altercation with a “store proprietor” across the street from CAMH like 2 years ago with my wife and her parents.
He basically yelled at us for browsing and told us if we want to shop we should go to loblaws. I have now come to the conclusion that it was/is just a front for the sales of drugs.
Plus I really like a lot of the bars down at that end of Ossington, but they are getting too crowded… Ossington the new Queen West? Kinda annoying methinks.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Was at Social for my birthday/a friend’s bachelor party. Can’t believe I didn’t get at least picked up by the cops.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Ossington and Queen West are over run with hipsters
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
See
I guess I’d qualify as an aging person that has long frequented the same bars as many hipsters… that being said they’ve always generally annoyed me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
How do you know
it wasn’t your change scattered around you?
Although even if it was… still a good score.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that’d be a great night for those of us stuck in Ottawa to do the same. The game will definitely be on in the pubs here, and it’d be great to jam a place with Leafs jerseys.
Finally on the Twitter train, @j6events. Follow me, I swear I'll have interesting thoughts soon!
by BetterThanBester on Aug 24, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
and it’d be great to jam a place with Leafs jerseys besides Scotiabank Place
Fixed
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 24, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, I did that last time the Leafs were in town. Also, i live right near the market, so it’d be great to get into an Ottawa version of the PPP Pub night and party with some of the folks down here.
Finally on the Twitter train, @j6events. Follow me, I swear I'll have interesting thoughts soon!
by BetterThanBester on Aug 24, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
talked about it last year – never happened..
Definitely have to do it this year
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 24, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
For sure… I think we just need to firm up a night, and then throw up a fanpost or shot, and just get it done. Having it on a night when the Leafs play against Ottawa would make it easier to find a bar that’ll have the right game on.
Finally on the Twitter train, @j6events. Follow me, I swear I'll have interesting thoughts soon!
by BetterThanBester on Aug 24, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I got a post about that crack too. I think in Cox’s head the fact that sports blogs report quotes that newspapers transcribed from open pressers is stealing. Sorry Damo, that’s not how it works.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
But we link back to where we got the quotes from every time. That’s what makes me laugh.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If the Sun had said “thanks to Pension Plan Puppets for finding this” we would have been high fiving each other and talking about what a forward thinking newspaper they are.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Bingo
Also, I did e-mail Hokej.cz but they haven’t replied.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
did you translate it into Czech…?
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
heh
I wrote it in English hoping they could read it. Maybe I should re-send it in Czech?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
get someone to translate it first
and then reference you as the original source.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Why don’t we lock Wallace in a room for an hour, give him a sample random Czech quote, access to Google Translate, and then see what he comes up with?
Since those were ostensibly his only resources for the translation (aside from “checking” the quote here at PPP) he should have no trouble coming up with a lucidly worded translation…
If my nose was full of nickels I would blow it all on you.
I said as much in a later e-mail to my friend, Mr. Wallace. He reminded me that I still didn’t get it. I’m not kidding.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
by Bower Power on Aug 24, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
go away for two weeks and look what happens.
1) The main stream media (particularly the Sun) does the same stupid crap it’s been doing for a while
2) PPP gets mentioned on a few national websites for it’s trouble
3) Slowly the MSM thinks about starting to consider this place (and other blogs) legit sources of information.
I would go on 2 week honeymoons more often if it didn’t require me to (a) get married multiple times, and (b) wasn’t so expensive. Of course if this place increases in notoriety, then maybe one day I’ll be able to use my earnings from it to pay for said “vacations”.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Congrats on the wedding btw.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Thanks
It was back in June, but I’ll accept the belated thanks nonetheless.
I have 2 weeks before school starts again in full swing so I should be able to contribute something in the interim.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Congrats
not thanks.. too early.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
WHen Chemmy went on his honeymoon, we ended up with Dion Phaneuf and rid of Toskala.
PPP better get his ass hitched and on a plane somewhere at the deadline, so we can a king’s ransom for Kaberle
Resident Capologist
I’m going back to that resort in Mexico two weeks before Christmas. Maybe Burke will shake the team up then.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
i hope it doesn’t need a shake up…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
RICK NASH
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A buddy who lurks here sometimes just got engaged. I’ll commence harassing him to register.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Aug 24, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't wait for the rookie tournament to start
so we have actual hockey to discuss.
As interesting as all of this is, it’s still not what we’re all here to read about.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Same
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
speaking of which, i remember last year someone had photos from the rookie tournament (correct me if im wrong) and we got to get a good look at some of our newer prospects. Would really love to know if anyone is going to any of the games
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 24, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
If I am able to get my apartment and all that in order in time I will go, take pictures and report back with any relevant information.
by ShahofToronto on Aug 24, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
badass
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 25, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I miss London, might have to make a trip down though for the tourney.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 25, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Will be at each Leafs game for the tourney. Msg me on Twitter if you’re at a game and want to meet up. Cheers.
"One day, we'll be perfect." - The Tao of Stieb
Rookie Tourney
I may go to a game or two as well…
by NascarPoolsOnline on Aug 24, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it being held in Kitchener again this year? If so I’ll probably go to a game or two.
Boo hoo!
by Chris Stoikoff on Aug 24, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
London.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 24, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Columbus
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s close too, I enjoyed the game I went to last year so it should be fun
Boo hoo!
by Chris Stoikoff on Aug 24, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I am trying very hard to get tickets to the Leafs preseason game there this year
its on my birthday, someone should buy them for me
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
While you’re at it get me a pair of tickets to the Coca-Cola Fans First game for me. It’s on my birthday and I very badly want to take my dad, as neither of us have seen a game at the ACC. ;D
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 25, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
It also doesn’t excuse the Sun as some professional apologists have suggested since two wrongs don’t make a right.
This was my argument on another site.
I do wonder how Toronto Sun will react with all this – after so much defending, it will be even harder to now say “my bad”.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
They won’t. I have a sneaking suspicion that they know they’re wrong, but are playing stubborn because they don’t want to set the precedent. In our e-mails, Wallace was never able to defend his position beyond “In journalism, it doesn’t work that way.” Like my sig says, they really were just cowering behind an empty party line; independent of thought or what they’d like to see were the roles reversed.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
by Bower Power on Aug 24, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely ignoring the legal side...
I’m untrained to debate the legal side of this argument; whether plagiarism is legal and where, as well as whether it falls under copyright… so I’ll let the experts work that out.
However as a consumer of media, I do have the right to vote with my dollars. I feel that Fuller and Wallace’s actions are extremely unethical, and I will never buy a Sun as long as they work there. I’ll also repeat my reasons to anyone who listens or asks. What they did may or may not be legal but it’s damn shady and I don’t need to be an expert to stop buying their product for whatever reasons I want.
(full disclosure: I already don’t buy their product because it sucks.)
FWIW I e-mailed the guy who runs the Toronto Sun Family blog to tell him that people here were unaware that you needed permission to translate and repost the original Czech/Swedish articles, and that new policies have been put in place so that this never happens again. And then mentioned that I think claiming someone else’s original work as your own is pretty clearly plagiarism.
He replied back “In a perfect world, proper credits would be the norm.”
Cop-out.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
proper credits
ARE the norm… which is why this is a problem.
WTF is with them all being giant morons about this particular issue?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Might just be a case of they know they’re in the wrong but internal stuff is happening so in the meantime any replies we get should side-step the actual issue.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If one of the blogs on Sportsnet, TSN, or CBC had done what PPP did, you can bet the ranch that Sun Media would have given them credit (or if it was one of the other papers’ blogs…same rule applies).
But because your last name isn’t McKenzie, Dreger, Morrison, Marek, Friedman, etc. it’s bugger off.
Let them rip off Cox on his blog and see him defend it.
The Sun is trying to be “a little bit pregnant”.
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Aug 24, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the Sun is also “mostly dead.”
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Aug 24, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Is that a Princess Bride reference? Better rec it just in case.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 24, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
luckily
NBC, Yahoo! sports, Kukla’s Korner etc. are all running stories relevant to the issue from the perspective that the Sun is in the wrong.
If the Sun is ignoring hockey websites with readership that far outstrip their own, they’re idiots… but who are we to judge?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Aug 24, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yes please
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
- Girls of PPP Bikini Calendar
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Girls of PPP Calendar
This idea is like 2 years old! What’s been the hold up?
Please don't act like this comment is important
clothing, I assume
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
you don’t even know dude, you don’t even know
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Start finding us Czech women to pose.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
You guys want a calendar alternating pics of me, Fergie, LD and sleza?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
No, we’d hire outside models to pose as you four.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
oh snaps
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
wrap too
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
damn
Ugh, duh.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
also alix
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
She has foresaken us since the Phaneuf trade.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey guys
Just wanted to let you know that I’m going to post this same thing on my blog.
Hope you don’t care.
Actually, I don’t care if you care.
Please don't act like this comment is important
hahahaha
MOAR JAYTING PLEASE
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Posted a new profile today
And I have TWO DATES on the weekend!
Dave Fuller came up with this signature idea
Also
Look at how fucking HUGE this picture of Dave Fuller is:
Dave Fuller came up with this signature idea
he looks like a mummified martin scheen
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 24, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
uhhhh
SCARY
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 24, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
man
those nose hairs…
This is my signature.
by blurr1974 on Aug 24, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
It would make an easy to hit dart board.
Do people still play darts?
Dave Fuller came up with this signature idea
also, for some reason
this reminded me of homer’s quote
“LOOK HOW LOUD I HAVE TO YELL!”
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 24, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Status Update?
I’d love to have a quick and perhaps, but not necessarily, dirty update on what the going ons are vis a vis the Sun.
Any word on progress with the appeals?

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