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Around SBN: Which Players Will Join The 3,000-Hit Club?

Toronto Maple Leafs' Mount Puckmore

Editor's Note: Thanks to Sean Leahy for asking us to contribute to Puck Daddy's Mount Puckmore series and thanks to everyone that helped discuss the choices. Here's what we went with, let us know what we got wrong but remember, Wendel blessed these choices.  

Torontopuckmore_medium

Save the 1967 jokes: unless your team is the Montreal Canadiens the history of the Toronto Maple Leafs is a lot more storied than that of your favorite franchise. Actually, use them if you want. It's not like the rest of you can come up with any original jokes or better ones than Leafs fans can anyway.

Picking just four names from the 93 year tale of the Toronto Maple Leafs is an exercise in compromise. Can a team that won 13 Stanley Cups pick three of its four Mt. Puckmore visages from players that never won a Cup in Toronto?

The post-1967 Leafs include players like Darryl Sittler. Sidney Crosby's nickname of Darryl comes from the fact that in junior the Penguins star scored eight points in one game. Darryl Sittler scored six goals and four assists in one NHL game during a career in which he re-wrote the franchise's record book.

Wendel Clark embodies what the Toronto Maple Leafs are and always have been; a hard nosed workman's team in stark contrast to the endlessly skilled Montreal Canadiens. While the Flying Frenchmen were winning Cups on the back of Gallic flair, the Leafs were piling them up with the proverbial stiff upper lip. Wendel Clark literally gave 110% until his body failed and anyone who has ever called themselves a Leafs fan knows of his heroics in the 1993 Western Conference Finals where he put the Leafs on his back and tried to overcome Kerry Fraser and Wayne Gretzky with sheer will and a deadly wrister.

What about Doug Gilmour who was instrumental in those two runs to the conference finals? He posted 35 points in 21 games in the 1993 playoffs after being run out of town in Calgary. After Wendel Clark's departure Gilmour wore the C in Toronto in a move that has been strangely echoed by Dion Phaneuf's arrival.

It's not any easier to pick players from before 1967. Dave Keon lifted four Cups in Toronto and is the only Leafs with his name etched on the Conn Smythe trophy: named after the Leafs owner and given to the playoff MVP.

Who can forget Bill Barilko? He won four Cups in his five seasons and in his last hockey game Barilko scored in OT to win the Leafs the 1951 Stanley Cup. Less than half a year later he disappeared. His body wasn't found for eleven years. The Leafs had an eleven year Cup drought that they ended with a run of three straight titles. The first one came in 1962 after Barilko's body was found.

A great case could be made for any number of Maple Leafs being a part of this exercise. To leave off Hap Day, Charlie Conacher, Bill Barilko, Doug Gilmour, Dave Keon, Wendel Clark, Darryl Sittler, Syl Apps, Turk Broda, Johnny Bower and all of the Leafs greats is to leave off a long list of legends. These are our four choices for Mt. Puckmore, the four players who rise above being legends.

Star-divide

1. Mats Sundin

Sundin never had a reputation as being outspoken but on the ice he certainly had a flair for the dramatic. His 500th career goal came in overtime. His 500th career goal completed a hat trick against Miikka Kiprusoff... shorthanded.

Sundin is the all time Leafs leader in goals, assists by a forward and points. He shares the league lead for overtime goals with Jagr, Fedorov and Elias, he was the first European player trained in Europe to be drafted #1 overall. He is the only Swede to score 500 goals in his career.

Some fans never warmed to Sundin. His quiet demeanor off ice and unwillingness to drop the gloves didn't sit right with a fanbase that watched Wendel Clark leave. That's not fair to Mats. Sundin didn't fight with his fists but he fought with his body. Below the goal line he muscled off opposing defenders and walked out into the slot with impunity. When everything was on the line Sundin bailed the Leafs out time and time again and for his trouble the Toronto media dragged him through the muck. In our weakest moments we did too and for that we're sorry. He played through injury and after the lockout was the only star on a terrible team. He played tough minutes against the best the opposition had to offer night after night and carried the Leafs on his back.

 

Leafs fans will be lucky if we get to watch a player half as good as Sundin in our lifetimes.

2. Borje Salming

Borje Salming is the reason there are Europeans playing in the NHL today. He came over and was willing to fight anybody. To quote the Flyers' Bobby Clarke "He was tough, and he could use his stick too."

A50563c340fba5c7e72a419974d0_medium 

Borje Salming hammered the nail into the coffin of European players being too soft to play in the NHL. The Maple Leafs wisely sent Borje Salming to talk to Jonas Gustavsson before signing the young Swedish netminder because they knew Borje would convince him.

My favorite Borje Salming moment comes from his reaction to Leafs' coach Red Kelly who had turned to new age mysticism. Kelly had installed pyramids under the Leafs bench to harness good energy and someone asked Salming what he thought about the whole thing.

"I no believe in pyramids," he said. And then he tapped his chest. "I just believe in the big fellow."

I'm too young to have seen Salming play but he's a hero to Mats Sundin and an idol to Jonas Gustavsson. Nik Lidstrom called Borje Salming his childhood inspiration. An NHL without Borje Salming's influence is an NHL without the Sedins, Henrik Zetterberg, Daniel Alfredsson and more. Borje proved he could play in the best league in the world and opened doors that changed the NHL.

In a precursor of Mats Sundin's reception upon his return to Toronto after signing in Vancouver he was given a a standing ovation by the Maple Leafs Garden faithful during an appearance in the 1976 Canada Cup. The fans realised how lucky they were to watch arguably the greatest defencemen to ever wear the blue and white as well as one of the most influential players in NHL history.

 

3. Teeder Kennedy

Ted "Teeder" Kennedy grew up a Maple Leaf fan and tragically was almost a Montreal Canadien. The pilfering of Ted Kennedy from the Habs began with his shabby treatment upon his arrival in Montreal. As his hopes of an NHL career seemed to be waning legendary NHL Executive Frank Selke swooped in and picked him up. The rub was that the trade was made while Owner and Managing Director Conn Smythe was overseas serving in World War II. While the trade marked the beginning of the end for Selke in Toronto - Smythe felt that Selke had been taking advantage of his absence - it marked the beginning of a glorious career that would see Kennedy become Conn Smythe's favourite player.

 

In 15 seasons with the Maple Leafs, Kennedy's Hall of Fame career was marked by 694 GP, 231 goals (10th all-time among Leafs), 328 assists (8th), and 559 points (9th). He captained the team for eight seasons and led the team during three of the five championship seasons he played making him the first player in NHL history to win that many Cups. He won the Leafs' final Hart Tropy in 1955 beating out a bevy of legends and was the recipient of a specially created team MVP award, the J.P. Bickell Trophy, because of Conn Smythe's frustration with the lack of recognition for his talents. Kennedy has been described as a clutch, tenacious, complete player and a 2001 Hockey News Panel concluded that he would likely have had three playoff MVPs if they had been awarded during his time. However, the most apt description came from Frank Mahovlich who said, "Ted Kennedy never played for another team, never wanted to, and captained the Toronto Maple Leafs during its greatest era. He has been called the quintessential Maple Leaf." 

4 - Conn Smythe

The question about whether to include owners, general managers, or coaches on various teams' Mount Puckmores has spawned some spirited debate. On the one hand, Leafs fans are repeatedly told that they will never win a Cup as long as a faceless corporation owns the team. Apparently they are afraid of making obscene amounts of money. Of course, Buds fans know better than most just how devastating poor ownership can cripple a franchise and we are constantly told how having a dedicated owner like Mike Illitch would make a difference. So on our Mount Puckmore, we're adding the driving force behind the Toronto Maple Leafs' success: Conn Smythe. It's no coincidence that the Leafs' decline dovetailed with Conn passing ownership of the team to a trio including his drunkard son Stafford and his evil partner Harold Ballard.

The fact of the matter is that without Conn Smythe there would have been no Maple Leafs...literally. He kept the team from being sold to a consortium that was going to move the team to Philadelphia. As managing director he built a franchise that went toe-to-toe with the Montreal Canadiens. After purchasing the Toronto St. Patricks in 1927 he quickly renamed them the Toronto Maple Leafs (named after his World War I unit, a proper noun hence the plural 's'). In 1931, his negotiation skills were instrumental in getting Maple Leaf Gardens built in five months in the midst of the Great Depression. (Editor's Note: He also hated Upper Canada College which makes him awesome in my books) His character and belief in team-building "If you can't beat 'em in the alley, you can't beat 'em on the ice" has come to define every successful period in the franchise's history. In this instance at least, Brian Burke is a worthy successor to his legacy. With his name on the Stanley Cup for eleven of the Maple Leafs' thirteen Stanley Cups there really is no argument for keeping his visage from gracing Mount Puckmore.

As we noted, there is obviously a lot of room for debate. If we were actually making these monuments we would have MLSE buy a couple of mountains to ensure that all deserving members of the Maple Leafs' storied history could be recognised. These are our choices of four Maple Leafs that define the franchise so let's get the kvetching underway. Who did we miss? What pick did we screw up? (Hint: none of them, that's Wendel blessing our selections) For the non-Leafs fans, try not to drool on your keyboard as you mash out your anger. Remember, your mother loves you.

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eh…i love me some borje…but i disagree with his inclusion.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Wendel Knows

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice work Triple P.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Nice work Big C.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

rec’d for truth

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

recd

for recing

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Salming over Clarkie…..hmmmmmm
Salming over mahovlich….hmmmmmm

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

sundinvideos is awesome. So many clutch goals. That’s probably the best one to listen to though.

One I had forgetten about but enjoyed last night was when he dragged Smolinski the length of the ice then buried the dagger in Lalime.

by The '67 Sound on Aug 31, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Linkage!

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s in there.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

My. Bad.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
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by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t youtube at work but just look up “Mats Sundin playoff”. Or go to sundinvideos’ page. And prepare to spend the next half hour there.

by The '67 Sound on Aug 31, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was sitting on the couch in my Sundin third watching those videos last night.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s in the article.
I didn’t realize it.
durrrrrr

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
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by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Same

I forgot that goal but that was Mats summed up in one play. The Leafs needed something and nothing was going to stop Mats from delivering it.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m annoyed, I read once that goal was the first time anyone used a one piece composite stick in the NHL. It’s the original silver Synergy, but I can’t find that quote again.

Basically Sundin said “this seems good, I’ll try it out”, buried that goal in OT and that was it for wood sticks.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gretzky was into them early, IIRC.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

He used aluminum sticks.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. I’m actually not sure that the Sundin quote is 100% accurate, but he was one of the firsts. I was under the impression some of Easton’s guys like Sakic were already using the composite sticks too.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sundin was an Easton guy then and the other big Easton players weren’t convinced.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sundin was a CCM guy

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sticks.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know about that because I remember them talking about the new sticks and how Sundin had some of the labels on the sticks blacked out.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you watch the PING video you can see it’s clearly a silver Synergy.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Correct. I even had one. That thing got dented to shit.

When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.

by SkinnyFish on Aug 31, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, that’s right. People complained about them at the time, too. They’d reflect the light and goalies said it was a distraction.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Preach on.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

There’s one line in the entire piece I wrote that is just for you. Try to find it.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to guess this one
In our weakest moments we did too and for that we’re sorry.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good eye.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

All is forgiven.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah that one’s great.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh man, memories..

Bobby Ryan...can he be acquired?
blurr1974: No.

by Chris Stoikoff on Aug 31, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It will be a sad day when Bob Cole leaves us.

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 31, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can’t complain with any of the choices here.
Good work boys

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

That 4th spot is a doozy

Mats, Teeder and Smythe seem no brainers. After that… Horton, Apps, Armstrong, Salming, Sittler, Keon, Day, Bower, Broda… just a wealth of worthy candidates. Well done.

by The '67 Sound on Aug 31, 2010 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

The initial disclaimer over how impossible the choice for only 4 seemed to cover it.

There was no way to pick 4 such that everyone would be happy.

20 miles to Legoland!

by nhlcheapshot on Aug 31, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

totally agree with that.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice job, fellas

I can’t say I think any of these selections are wrong. Which makes them right.

And thank you for making these decisions with your brains, and not including Clark. Not a knock against Wendel, but he doesn’t deserve to be up there, and I’m glad his reputation didn’t get him up there.

Well done.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Agree. Great job all around.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Chemmy’s idea for Wendel helps soothe any hurt feelings over his exclusion.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently no one else looked at the actual picture :)

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.

by Ubiquitous on Aug 31, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

whoa whoa whoa.

i love you buddy, but i gotta ask, why doesn’t clark belong up there?

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn’t as good a player as any of the three chosen.

I love Wendel but this is a franchise with a long and glorious history.

by The '67 Sound on Aug 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn’t as good a player as any of the three chosen.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Clark embodies one era of the Leafs. Not their all-time history, as Mount Puckmore tries to capture. There have been many better and more accomplished Leafs than Wendel Clark.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

if that’s the case, Sittler embodies the face of the leafs from Salming’s time.

Mt. Puckmore is the face of the leafs, not the best players if that’s the case Mahovlich should’ve been there, he’s arguably the most talented maple leaf ever.

I would consider Sittler or Clark more the face of the franchise than Salming.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d listen to your argument to include Sittler over Salming, but not Wendel. But that’s just me.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just feel that Mt. Puckmore was supposed to be the face of the franchise.

Wendel Clark was more the face of the Maple Leafs than Salming ever was, even if he was a lesser player.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you underestimate Salming. We both never watched him play. I think we’d both have different opinions if we did.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Salming was my dad’s favourite player, he even has a Salming jersey.

I’ve seen plenty of game highlights and plays, the same way i’ve seen highlights of sittler.

and I still think that both wendel and sittler are more the face of the maple leafs than salming was.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know, part of it came down to talking to family members that saw the Leafs play and Borje was usually the first Leaf they mentioned from that period.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Borje just believes in the big fellow” is my favorite Leafs anecdote.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s fair, I just think that we tend to over compensate against Wendel because we love him so much, he was the one and only face of the franchise for close to a decade.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

My early years watching the Leafs were with the Salming, Sittler, MacDonald, Palmateer teams.

Salming was an incredible player and I don’t think enough has been made of his contribution to the expansion of hockey and paving the way for Euros.

I also think Salming embodies one of the most puzzling aspects of this team: the majority of Leaf fans prefer meat heads to skill.

Given the tendency to prefer the pugnacious, maybe Tiger Williams, Tie Domi or Brad Smith would be better faces for the franchise. But I’m really glad Chemmy and PPP went with Salming.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s strange that you mention that, because I’ve often wondered the same thing. Maybe it’s because seeing elite skill in a Leafs jersey is fairly rare.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it has to do with the perception of effort.

I’m talking out of my ass here, but it seems that Leaf fans prefer a guy who looks like he’s working hard (and maybe not getting results) to a guy who gets results without appearing to work hard.

There’s a long history of fan favourites along these lines – from Eddie Shack to Tie Domi.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll agree with that, people always ragged on Lemieux for looking effortless.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

WTF?

Are these the people that frequent crack dens…?

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

seriously.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

or

George Armstrong

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

he came up as a scorer, though. It was later that he became the face of that defensive effort.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting point. I think we can see it even now.

Kessel is lazy and he doesn’t backcheck.

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by Bower Power on Aug 31, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey that’s ripping off Ovechkin! (hoo hoo)

Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground

Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 31, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

(go flyers)

Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground

Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 31, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m talking out of my ass here, but it seems that Leaf fans prefer a guy who looks like he’s working hard (and maybe not getting results) to a guy who gets results without appearing to work hard.

I’d say this is fairly well documented.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

In all sports even (see Eckstein, David).

Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground

Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 31, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Hab fans prefer their players with a bit of elan.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno

Larry Robinson wasn’t just about the Elan… they had their share of hard working players also.

I think they prefer their players full of win… the elan part is irrelevant probably.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those 70s teams were really tough. Nobody remembers that.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ken Dryden would disagree with you. In The Game he talks about why it was important for the Habs to re-claim the title from the Flyers. It was about restoring skill to a game that was going the way of the bullies…

Other than Doug Riseborough, I can’t think of a Hab in the 70s that would have topped 100 PiMs.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn’t mention Robinson hitting Gary Dornhoefer so hard that he broke the boards, or scaring the bejeebers out of Schultz.

Those teams were tough. They just weren’t goons. That’s the difference.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you think Hab fans prefer “tough” hockey or “skilled” hockey?

I’d say it’s the latter hands-down.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure. But they loved Knuckles Nilan. Loved him to little tiny bits.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup. One all the all-time beloved Habs. Held up by Hab fans the same way Leaf fans love Domi.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Domi made this list when?

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you read back through the comments, you’ll note that the discussion relates to the types of players that fans of different clubs are drawn to, not about the final four faces on a hypothetical mountain.

I also think Salming embodies one of the most puzzling aspects of this team: the majority of Leaf fans prefer meat heads to skill.
it seems that Leaf fans prefer a guy who looks like he’s working hard (and maybe not getting results) to a guy who gets results without appearing to work hard.

My point is, and was, Habs fans tend to support a different style of player than Leaf fans. Leaf fans will go to the wall for a Shack, Williams, Berg, Smith, Domi whereas Habs fans like a bit more panache.

Look at how each fan base treats Mahovalich. In Toronto he was lazy and never reached his potential (was often booed in MLG). No such reaction at the Forum.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except that Leaf fans will also go to the wall for a Sittler, a McDonald, a Duff, a Kennedy, a Gilmour.

Support for guys who are visibly working hard is not the same as undying support for goons.

Habs fans were jumping out of their seats and screaming like banshees when Nilan fought.. John Ferguson was wildly popular when he played. They like their tough guys too.

Your brush is too wide.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

If my brush is too wide, your reading comprehension is too low.

Support for guys who are visibly working hard is not the same as undying support for goons.

Show me where I said this was so.

The point remains: the majority of Leaf fans prefer meat heads to skill. Look no further than the fact that Domi is more beloved than Sundin.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

If my brush is too wide, your reading comprehension is too low.

Quality commentary as always.

The point remains: the majority of Leaf fans prefer meat heads to skill. Look no further than the fact that Domi is more beloved than Sundin.

Evidence?

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Quality commentary as always.

Your broad brush was a thing of epic beauty, sorry to spoil things.

Evidence?

What do Eddie Shack, Tiger Williams, Brad Smith, Lou Francheschetti, Bill Berg, and Tie Domi have in common?

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me guess. They’re all wildly more popular than Sundin?

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fan support for these, and many other Leafs like them, is completely out of line with their results.

And your evidence to the contrary? That Leaf fans support skill over effort?

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Enormous standing ovation for Borje Salming, representing the opposition in the Canada Cup is certainly a start.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gave you seven examples, by all means keep ’em coming.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really. You gave me seven examples of guys who got cheered when they hit things or scored goals. They were also cheered for the same things in other markets.

Bill Berg was in no way, shape or form the most popular guy on the teams he played for. Neither was Franceschetti or Brad Smith.

Were there people who loved Domi, Shack or Tiger? Yes. Did more people love them than loved Gilmour, Keon or Sittler/Salming? I don’t see a shred of evidence to support this.

You suggest that their support outweighs their contribution, but how are you measuring that?

Every one of them was also wildly popular in every other market in which they played. If it’s a problem in Toronto, it’s a problem across hockey.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said they were the most popular, I said:

Fan support for these, and many other Leafs like them, is completely out of line with their results.

Franceschetti loved in Buffalo? Berg loved on the Island? Motor City loved in Atlanta or Vancouver.

Canuck please. Not a chance.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Franceschetti in Washington, Berg on the Island (yes), Motor City in Detroit and Calgary.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Motor City was loved in Detroit sure, but I don’t recall him being a fan fave in Calgary, but he was only there for 45 games.

Berg had a hard time cracking the Isles line-up and had to play both F and D to do so. I remember those teams well, but can’t recall any fuss (or support) for him.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was in Calgary that year. They liked him.

They liked Berg in New York when he hit things, just like they liked Steve Webb.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

They may have liked him, but Berg was beloved in Toronto. My high school was full of guys with Berg sweaters.

Berg. Sweaters.

Hard to believe.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Conversely, I never met a soul who owned one.

We have family in Beamsville (where he’s from) and even they didn’t own one.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

This may be more CC territory, but my goodness I love the bench. Best wines in Niagara coming out of that area.

This is most likely a generational thing. I wonder what Leaf jersey is most likely to be spotted in a high school right now?

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kessel, Schenn of Phaneuf would be my guess.
Or prolly still Sundin

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

One would hope it’s Kessel.

That’s the most reasonable comparable. Would you expect more Orrs than Kessels?

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would expect more Phaneuf’s than anyone

He’s Canadian, he’s the captain, and he has the potential to be the type of player leaf fans love – goals and grit.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

also in your face leadership with yelling, lots of yelling

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK – but that’s not an unreasonable choice, either.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Based on volunteering with a community hockey association, I’d wager there are far more Crosby and Ovechkin shirts being worn by teens than any Leaf jerseys.

The Hawks have made a big resurgence too.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, 12 year old boys are the worst bandwagon fans. I know a kid who has gone from buying Penguin hats to Blackhawk ones, makes me sick.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve been dying to buy my Phaneuf jersey ever since they unveiled the new ones, but I’m broke.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m considering getting a Lebda specifically for the reactions.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep it for a while and the most common reaction will be “who?” :)

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can hang it next to my Czerkawski.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

During the season in which he played 19 games for us, I wore it to the HSBC once. Someone spotted the 21 on my arm and disapprovingly said “Reichel?”

A past goat was seen as more likely to have inspired a jersey sale than the player then-currently wearing the same number for us.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

the best random jersey ive seen was a Lumme jersey in Chicago, I asked the dude why he got it and he just sighed and said “I dont know”

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is awful.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I appreciate a fan with an obscure player’s jersey, but Lumme was awful for us.

The trick is to find someone obscure who’s job is safe enough that he’ll be around for a while. That’s especially tough post-cap. Maybe I should get a Gunnarsson.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m getting Kulemin, not exactly obscure though. Hope he sticks around.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, it’s hard to predict anyone on the leafs who will be around for a while short of Kessel, schenn and Phaneuf, then throw in the obscure…Gunnar is probably the safest bet
this is the reason I stick to classic players mostly
I hate having the same jersey as 1000 other people in the building at a game

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes and no

I have an old Sundin, cuz I love SUndin.
I have a Schenn, cuz its Schenn.
I will be getting Phaneuf, because he has been my favourite defenceman since he came in the league

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you’re heading to Colorado, pick up a vintage with a big 9 and “Duff” on the back.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Calgary had no shortage of players who could play that way. Willi Plett was a huge fan favourite (who obviously scored a lot more that Smitty). Carl Mokosak got into something like three fights in a period and was the talk of the town for a week. They later had Baxter, Tim Hunter (more than a little popular) Randy Holt was there for a while, Bridgman could play good and dirty.

A lot of fans like smashmouth hockey. True everywhere.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also Williams in Vancouver, Shack in Boston and Pittsburgh, Domi in New York and Winnipeg.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

McSorley loved in Edmonton and LA.

Probert in Detroit. Simon in NYI. Boogart in MIN.

Every team has thugs they love. Not sure why this has to be a Toronto-centric thing…

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colton Orr is dreamy

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep that up...

..and The Sheriff might just charge you with one count of Being Right.

by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 31, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

The other thing with Mahovlich is that he was a completely different player in Montreal.

In Toronto, he was perceived as an underachiever because in large measure, he was an underachiever. For a player with his talent, he never put points on the board the way he should have.

Most of that lies with the system the Leafs played and the demands of the coach. In Detroit and later Montreal, he was let loose to a far greater extent and his stats reflect that.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

The fans should have been booing Imlach, not Mahovolich. My guess is they were too busy cheering Eddie Shack.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frank Mahovlich’s playoff stats in Toronto:

84-24-36-60-135

In Montreal:

49-27-31-58-26

It’s no surprise to me that they’d have a different opinion.

Should they have booed Imlach? Possibly. How many Leafs are failing because they can’t work under Wilson? It won’t be apparent until they’re somewhere else.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, fans only booed in the playoffs or playoff stats determine when players are booed?

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was primarily in the playoffs, yes.

Most of it came from having just two assists in 1963.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big question remains: why do Leaf fans turn on skill guys? Especially when they’re being used inappropriately by coaches?

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

some people i know expect all our skill guys to be wayne gretzky and the second they go pointless for a few games they just turn on them…. not sure why exactly. If they were busting skulls while not scoring goals, everything would be fine…..

when you combine the two, like Clark did, you become a god

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Aug 31, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe you should get off each others lawns and be done with it?
=P

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK.

And I apologize for the broad brush comment if it was taken as offensive.

I don’t think it’s particularly fair to generalize “Leaf fans” as, for example, loving meatheads. Every fan I knew was furious that the Leafs traded for Domi and onloy grudgingly came to later admit that there were times he could be useful.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The broad brush didn’t offend me in the slightest. I was puzzled as to why you’d throw that out there and then get snarky when I responded in kind.

Every Leaf fan I know pretty much loves Domi. I think an argument can be made that he was the most popular leaf for a stretch of time. Amazing when you think of some of the skill players that surrounded him…

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Saying I lack reading skills is pretty damned insulting.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Snark begets snark.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

You teach your kids that?

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rubber and glue is the big lesson.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you’re saying you can’t read? ;)

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

just gotta keep sounding it out.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

My comment was about your argument. Yours was personal. Hence the reaction.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was directed at your argument (certainly wasn’t intended to be taken literally or I would have spelled it out phonetically)

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK.

Bridge. Water. Gone.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Conversely, I never really knew or hung out with a single player who was a Tie fan.

The only Baumgartner fans I knew were his blood relatives. And even they dismissed him as a goon. Just their favourite goon.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

single “fan”, that is.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I once saw a Leafs-Sens match in Kanata and the Leaf fans on the OC transpo bus back into the city started a Baumgartner chant.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

So obviously you needed to hang out with a better class of Leaf fan. Good thing you found PPP. ;)

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha. I wasn’t hanging out with those fans so much as I was sharing public transport.

I once spent the day with Donald Trump and the only time he talked hockey he spoke about Tie Domi and how much Toronto loved him. Trump was a big Domi fan too…

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would guess that it’s not always apparent that they’re being misused.

Add to that the problem that big players who skate well don’t appear to be working hard (there’s a great article out there about the different mechanics of tall skaters – I’ll try to find it) and a lack of production quickly becomes perceived as a lack of interest.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

like I said

I think they prefer winning hockey.

If the Leafs were winning, I don’t think anyone would care if they were doing it with toughness or elan… in fact… if they did it with Elan, Leaf fans would love them just fine… nobody would bitch and moan if they won the Cup with skill.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they prefer winning hockey.

Unlike those franchises that prefer losing hockey.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Watching that hit

scares the bejeezus out of me… and I have never set foot on NHL ice.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Chris Nilan was a Leaf, he’d be beloved by the masses. As a Hab, he likely doesn’t crack their top 20.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was beloved by Habs fans, too. Much like Tiger.

But Tiger isn’t on our Top 20, either.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

We must know different Habs fans…and never mind Tiger – Domi is strangely still beloved in Toronto.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

the majority of Leaf fans prefer meat heads to skill.

You’re not the only team with fans with that problem.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Basically, yeah.

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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm serious question here, if you asked most Bruins fans who they liked better Orr or Neely, would Orr win by a HUGE margin?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Orr would kick your ass if you made him.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was still known for being a more finesse player

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the Bruins won in 88 or 90 that would be a lot tougher of a decision.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

But yes, absolutely I agree he was.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

You still haven’t answered my question tho

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t, really. Orr’s got 2 cups and is the best defenseman ever to lace up skates anywhere, much less in Boston.

Neely, on the other hand, kicked ass and scored goals and so on. I know I pick Orr 10 times out of 10 and so would my dad but the popularity of Milan Lucic knows no bounds in beantown.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He would be popular with whatever team he played for.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Orr’s got 2 cups and is the best defenseman ever to lace up skates

Most would argue best player but thats for another day.

The point I was trying to make was, you have Neely who scored goals but was a rough and tumble player compared to a finesse player, Orr was prolly the wrong choice, I apologize. I just wanted to see in terms of fan base if they had the same thoughts as most leaf fans

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me put it this way: The slogan for this past year was “Big and Bad are Back” with Chara and Lucic doing their best imposing visages below it. The team knows that the fans value toughness and the glory days of the big bad bruins. The fanbase is in a weird place with a lot of people coming back to fandom because the team is actually pretty alright now. The whole arena was chanting for Byron Bitz to get his third goal and booing the shit out of Wheeler when he didn’t get his.

And if you don’t get a clear picture out of that rambling mess…that’s kinda too bad I guess.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I get it.
You guys prefer the tough guys as well

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

In short, this is another instance where Leaf fans get dumped on for perceived behaviour that is also found to the same extent in other fan bases.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that was basically what I was wanting to find out

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

For example, a Leaf fan is bad for supporting a team that hasn’t won a championship in 42 seasons. A Vancouver fan who supports a team that has only won 13 playoff rounds in 39 seasons is not.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

but…but….94!

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

even in the land of the pansy known as ottawa they love them some Chris Neil and Matt Carkner, hell they loved McGratten who was just terrible at hockey on every scale

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

True story: I believe a larger-than-should-be percentage of Bruins fans are drooling, knuckle-dragging idiots.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you’ve been to Boston, too?

If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.

by Bower Power on Aug 31, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Orr = Chocolate Christmas Jesus

pretty sure he wins everyhting ever always.

by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 31, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

One thing that I do think is true is that hockey fans tend to like tough guys who display a bit of personality.

Shack was a character. Domi could be counted on to say something a little different and show a lot of bravado. Tucker was nuts.

A guy like Brian Curran, who fought a lot but never said much, was never all that warmly received anywhere, from what I see.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

My completely untested, unexamined theory is that everyone remembers the jackass kid they played hockey with, who was better than the other kids in bantam, and acted like a star about it. No one likes anyone who reminds them of that kid.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

i gave him a concussion in practice and then got benched for two games by his dad, who was the coach

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

his dad, who was the coach

Of course he was.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

seems to be a running theme eh?

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s always the damn coach’s son. Always.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always wonder about that. Is the coach’s son good because he’s the son of the coach, or is the dad coaching because his son is good?

I dunno, my dad always coached and I always sucked. (in soccer)

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 31, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think in more cases it’s the latter.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

The first year I coached baseball we had the league commissioner’s son on our team. He decided that he was a pitcher, and thus he was.

If not for the mercy rule, we’d still be in the first inning of that first game.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

ouch,
never had that, but I had a dad who was apparently on the city council and he tried to pull rank on me every game to get his kid to pitch, or lead off or whatever
I told him that if he wanted his kid to play the position he should start teaching him how to play better in his spare time because he clearly didn’t have the chops

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of the first 16 batters he faced, 15 walked and the other singled.

Mercy rules are wonderful things.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I played baseball, we had a kid who could throw 70mph as a 12-year-old.

He didn’t get to start as many games as the coach’s son.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

my dad was the contrary to this rule, I was never good enough and had to work twice as hard to get ice time or to catch ( my position of choice)

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

You were a catcher? You’re fucked.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup, i was a pretty decent catcher too, only played on one team in 10 years of ball where there was someone better. I also played first and third, but when my dad coached…fucking outfield

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had to catch the kid who could throw gas. Fucking terrifying.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I loved having a pitcher who could throw heat, made my job easier because the placement was easier to predict and at a young age, heat means strikeouts, so it was easier on my knees and i spent less time scrambling for curve or slider in the dirt

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like your hustle. Thats why it was so hard to cut you.

by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 31, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

We had two or three kids who had skills and they knew it. Rarely showed for practice and slacked off when they did. Drove us nuts.

We also had 3-4 who busted their tails and really improved over the course of the season. This fits within the general parameters of preferring pluggers to skill guys, but I’ll claim extenuating circumstances.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was (and still am) a strong proponent of the “you dont practice you dont play” no exceptions

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

and you know who’d make the killer error that would cost us games?

The skill guys. Never seemed to get through their heads, though. They were just putting in time till they got to the bigs, i guess.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

allen iverson disagrees

by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 31, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

They always wear an A too

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

never the C though, because that would be Bias
the kids best friend would get the C

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

YUP

I never played a day of organized hockey, most of my friends did tho.
One of my best friends was in that position, his dad was coach, he wore an A, but the guy had skill.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is the best story on this topic

My brother got selected for a PeeWee A team where one of the dad’s was coach and he picked all of his kid’s friends for the team. My brother got little ice time because he wasn’t one of the bros.

So the next year when they moved up to AA, my dad started his own A team and selected all the kids that the AA coach had shunned for not being his kid’s friends. Half way through the season, the two teams played and my dad’s A team absolutely demolished the AA team by something ridiculous like 8 – 1.

That group of kids and parents hate all of us to this day.

When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.

by SkinnyFish on Aug 31, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This story warms my heart.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was also a rivalry between the moms of the two teams. The AA team moms were “The Girlfriends” and they all wore short denim shorts, khaki boots with the socks rolled over the top, and low cut tops. They were also for the most part, alcoholics.

The A team moms, including mine, were just normal mom moms and constantly made fun of The Girlfriends.

When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.

by SkinnyFish on Aug 31, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Walt Disney needs to make a movie out of this.

jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog

"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)

by jrwendelman on Aug 31, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

that is kinda awesome

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

You watched the video of Salming getting a louder ovation playing for Sweden than BOBBY ORR got playing for CANADA right?

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

yup, still not convinced, great player, great talent, great leaf, just not the face of the franchise.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well not with those scars!

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lot of people had opposing ideas of what the puckmore should be.

Face of franchise? Highest point scorers? Most cup winners? Owners or only players? Tough to say….

I’d say it was pretty well balanced given a tough situation.

20 miles to Legoland!

by nhlcheapshot on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because literal face then Domi was more of the face than Sundin to be honest.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

i don’t agree with that.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mount Puckmore: The four faces of the Toronto Maple Leafs

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doug Gilmour was a bigger face of the Leafs for me than Wendel Clark ever was. And even I knew Gilmour shouldn’t be on the mount.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously there are people you would rather have seen up there, but I don’t think you can say that Salming was a poor choice.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I kinda do, I mean I love him, he was a great player, he just doesn’t scream face of the Maple Leafs to me.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think, as stated above, that is largely a product of not having watched the team during his tenure.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

the four defining faces of their franchise

The guy paved the way for Europeans, like PPP said

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wrote Sundin and Salming.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh shit. I’m sorry brother. My bad

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

But I felt that way too.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

No worries. I think Salming’s contributions in Toronto, his obvious popularity as evidenced in the Canada Cup and the fact that he changed the entire league warrant his inclusion.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also love that the only reason he was signed was because Ballard was in jail.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Too bad he got out.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

does that make him the face of the franchise? or the father of european hockey in the NHL?

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes. Yes.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Both.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ask any European who the face of the Toronto Maple Leafs is, and I bet they say Borje Salming

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

ask any leaf fan who the face of the Toronto Maple Leafs is and I bet you they mention Wendel Clark before Borje Salming.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t it.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on the ages.
I’d say Sundin. My grandfather would’ve said Johnny Bower. My uncle would say Darryl Sittler. And on it goes…

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Wendel Clark’s contribution to this franchise has been far overvalued due to one 46 goal season and the 1993 playoff run.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s also the only 1st overall pick ever drafted by the Leafs.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I watched all those years, so

no.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Not saying he was a bad player. But some folks seem to hold Clark to this mythical/legendary level. I don’t get it.

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

by birky on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was 15 when he was drafted. I watched his entire career. He is one of the great “what ifs” of hockey, IMO.

He always had that certain extra quality, it’s really hard to describe without watching it.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

INTANGIBLES

now cower under your beds all who mock the word!!!!

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn’t alive during the timeframe but he also seems pretty instrumental in bringing the excitment back following the Ballard years.

Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul

by Clawson on Aug 31, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Clark’s ascension is nicely in sync with the Leafs exit of the Ballard years. I also think, that as Captain of a team no better than an expansion team, he showed that you can beat guys up and still score goals.

I’m not lionizing the guy, I just think you’re going overly negative to make a point. I say we just revel in the fact that it’s going to be impossible to have a unanimous agreement on who the greatest 4 Leafs of all time were.

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Personally, I like that they basically cheated and snuck him in there as number five.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

We absolutely did. Screw that. We weren’t not including Wendel in some fashion.

Too bad no other team was as smart as Chemmy.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

<3 you guys forever for that.

is that why it was such a delay from when this was proposed to when it was posted….did you have to “convince” (i.e. beer bribe) gallof to make the picture the way you wanted??

“Bending the rules!”
“Bending the rules!”
“Bending the rules!”

by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 31, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm
ask any leaf fan UNDER 35 who the face of the Toronto Maple Leafs is and I bet you they mention Wendel Clark before Borje Salming.

There ya go.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

and if they’re over 35 i’d bet they say Darryl Sittler.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Who

is on the Mount Puckmore… so… being the best D man in both Sittler and Clark’s era on the team doesn’t really mean he doesn’t deserve to be up there.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

no he’s not.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh right

Woops… Salming… not Sittler… early in my day still.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

What I'm trying to say is

Salming’s career spanned both Clark’s and Sittler’s… and he was the best D man on the team for ages… still the highest scoring D man all time for the club… and I don’t think you can go without ANY D on the Puckmore thing… but yeah.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you can, if they’re not the face of the franchise.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone here for sure because we mythologize the guy.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

rec’d for truth.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

see i feel like you guys took this TOO much into account for this.

we mythologize him for good reason.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn't have

the numbers to back things up… his back injuries alone increase the mythology because we all think he played through ridiculous amounts of pain… but he had only three years over 70 games in 15 seasons.

In 11 seasons with the Leafs he only played in 60 games 5 times.

He wasn’t there enough to rack up the numbers for this sort of honour.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s in the next round of candidates with Dave Keon, Tim Horton, Syl Apps, and Bill Barilko. He got recognised.

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Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never mythologized Wendel. I think he’s put on a pedestal.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

for good reason.

I think Salming was more skilled than Wendel yes, agreed,

I don’t think he was the face of the franchise

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

For good reason. LOL. We’ll have to agree to disagree, mate.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

he was. Particularly in the early 80s as the team looked to figure out who they were post Sittler, Borje was your lock.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because you think our love of him taints our love for Mats.

Our hearts are big Eyebleaf. Open yours to Wendel.

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Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

rec’d for truth

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s definitely a part of it.

All I know is that if I’m picking a team and Wendel and Sundin are standing against the wall, I’m going Sundin every day of the week. And it blows my mind that many in this town would pick Wendel.

Sports And The City

A Toronto sports blog, where unabashed homerism is alive and well...

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

by eyebleaf on Aug 31, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

This.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I refuse to choose

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d agree with you there, I would pick Sundin too.

Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t love Wendel.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

What about Wendel

vs. Salming? lol

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

lose the game, or lose your teeth…

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m a Leafs fan and I mentioned Salming before Clark.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it depends on the age of the fan.

I’d say Sittler / Salming.

My dad would say Keon (or Red Horner. The old boy loves Red Horner, which is strange when you consider the he retired when my dad was 6 years old).

My kids would say Mats Sundin.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

My point is, that for Salming’s era there’s a choice, him or Sittler.

For Clark’s era there isn’t, it’s clear cut Wendel was the face of the Leafs.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

For Clark’s “era” there are three choices: Clark. Gilmour, Sundin.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think

I’d include Sundin in Clark’s “era”… Clark retired after the 99-00 season.

Sundin didn’t get to the Leafs until 94-95 in the Clark deal. They only played together in parts of 3 years.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure that Clark’s era deserves a spot.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Another thing

Darkest days of the franchise and even then Ballard was the face of that era.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

that is a point i might concede.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

For me

Dougie was face that brought them out of the evil Ballard era.

by fatassjackson on Aug 31, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d give Fletcher the credit for that.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

sundin…

Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.

Remember kids it's down the road not across the street

by sleza on Aug 31, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was not only the face of the Leafs, but the face of the NHL for a whole continent of young hockey players. I think it’s important to recognize that and the impact he had on the league that we see now.

Kool as KuKumbers Kulemin.... and hopefully Kadri.

by pesianator on Aug 31, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

the face of the NHL for a whole continent of young hockey players. I think it’s important to recognize that and the impact he had on the league that we see now.

This doesn’t mean he was the face of the Leafs.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

From 1982 through the real emergence of Wendel Clark, Borje Salming was the face of the franchise.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

His paving the way for the Europeans might be reason to include him into an NHL Mount Puckmore but it is what he did for Toronto that matters here….that being said I stil would have him on my rock

by Eterrible on Aug 31, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

His paving the way for the Europeans might be reason to include him into an NHL Mount Puckmore

exactly. whereas I would have Sittler.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

or Wendel.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fair Enough

When we posted the question I think there were probably about 100 different combos.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

coughIgotitfirsttrycough

When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.

by SkinnyFish on Aug 31, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Only two defensemen in leafs history have even half his point total. That’s pretty amazing.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.

by Ubiquitous on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

HALF OF HIS TOTAL!

Kaberle’s been pretty sweet for a long time right? He’ll NEVER catch Salming.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Filed under: "Not happening"

Well, if kaberle plays another 6 full seasons with the leafs at his current PPG, he’ll tie salming.

On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.

by Ubiquitous on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

He did plenty here. At the time Canadians loved him more than Bobby Orr. Decades later Nik Lidstrom calls Salming his childhood hero.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Decades later Nik Lidstrom calls Salming his childhood hero.

What does this have to do with Leaf fans?

I’m sure there are players in the NHL now who’s favourite player was Wendel Clark.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

It speaks to the impact that a Maple Leaf had on the NHL.

Just like Sundin being the captain of Sweden despite having guys like Forsberg, Alfredsson (vomit), and Lidstrom says a lot about him.

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by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, kudos to Chemmy on mentioning Alfie without any insult or dig, you’re a stronger person than I

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess to me face of the franchise does not equal impact on the NHL, it means who is the person you think of when you think of the maple leafs.

Just because someone was a better player doesn’t mean they were more a face of the franchise

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder how many people would answer “Ballard” when asked “Who is the person you think of when you think of the Maple Leafs?”

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heh yes, this.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bingo

Asked for guesses on Twitter and half had Ballard

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Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Swedens C

True – and never, ever even been up for any discussion wse; it was just the way God intended!
And as a Swede and Leafs fan I reallyreallyreally love your TML´s Mt Puckmore.
Really.

" Support Your Local Swedes ! "

by SweKool on Aug 31, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is as significant a Leaf as there has ever been, I’d say.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually the Leafs have always been a team known for their blue-blooded beat them up in the alley and on the scoreboard approach that Conn Smythe started. I can’t think of another player that has expemlified that than Wendel.

Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul

by Clawson on Aug 31, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

That really isn’t true. That’s the Gashouse Gang approach. Day all but turfed it when they started winning.

Leafs have always had some tough players, but so did everyone else.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

....

I was robbed

Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground

Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 31, 2010 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

I WILL PUNCH YOUR FACE IN

Urm. Excuse me sometimes that just comes out.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, at least you didn’t put Ballard there like the Hawks guy did with Wirtz.

Money don't make my world go round...i'm reaching out to a higher ground

Ron and Fez 11 to 3

by YvonLabresMoustache on Aug 31, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

sure, celebrate the swedes and bring up the sucking finns….

salming could probably kill him with one look

Мы в любовь играли,
И как кровь из вены капает слеза.

Remember kids it's down the road not across the street

by sleza on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Finnish Leafs I don’t hate….umm……Jussi boobs?

Rule #20

by JaredFromLondon on Aug 31, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great effort!

Just one caveat:

The fact of the matter is that without Conn Smythe there would have been no Maple Leafs…literally. He kept the team from being sold to a consortium that was going to move the team to Philadelphia. As managing director he built a franchise that went toe-to-toe with the Montreal Canadiens. After purchasing the Toronto St. Patricks in 1927 he quickly renamed them the Toronto Maple Leafs (named after his World War I unit, a proper noun hence the plural ‘s’). In 1931, his negotiation skills were instrumental in getting Maple Leaf Gardens built in five months in the midst of the Great Depression. His character and belief in team-building “If you can’t beat ‘em in the alley, you can’t beat ’em on the ice” has come to define every successful period in the franchise’s history. In this instance at least, Brian Burke is a worthy successor to his legacy. With his name on the Stanley Cup for eleven of the Maple Leafs’ thirteen Stanley Cups there really is no argument for keeping his visage from gracing Mount Puckmore.

A lot of that is kind of suspect. Smythe didn’t buy the entire team. He bought a controlling interest. He had partners who were part of the St. Pats ownership group (Bickell, for one). This means the whole Philly angle is a bit iffy. There may have been people sniffing around, but they needed to convince people to sell who weren’t interested, particularly.

The “beat ’em in the alley” bit is really about the 30s teams. There were tough players on the Hap Day teams, but that really wasn’t their defining characteristic.

And the bit about naming the Leafs after the fighting unit – well, there may be something there or there may not. It was rumoured that the St Pats were looking to make that name change long before Smythe bought them. They wanted to leech off the popularity of the baseball team, which was flying high in the late 20s.

Conn Smythe understood the need to tell a good story and the papers of the day were happy to oblige.

If you haven’t picked up the Holzman/Nieforth book yet, you really should.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

That’s my story and I’m stick to it!

But yeah, I have to track down that book.

The name thing I stick to because it shuts up the idiots that write Leaves.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

The name had been around for close to 30 years before Smythe adopted it. It’s from an earlier era that understood grammar far better.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Conn Smythe was no plagiarist >:(

Just kidding, I just prefer that mythology considering his sterling war record which I didn’t mention but people should be familiar with because it’s incredible.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

The piece I was to write for MLA and never got to finish was about that mythology. I may still try to hand it to him for next year. It’ll take that long to do it right, anyway. Separating the fact from the fiction is a real task.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

make sure to cite references!

by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 31, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

This thing could very easily be a book.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

In all seriousness: do it.

If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.

by Bower Power on Aug 31, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’ll take me 15 years.

Of course, the MLA piece could easily take me that long, too.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, i was just making a tongue-in-cheek joke but if you are doing the research i would like others to take it seriously and held up as a great piece on leaf history (and not just WRITTEN BY A BLOGGER, EWWWWW)

i’m sure it will turn out excellently and well deserving of making into the globe or star for many to see & appreciate.

by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 31, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s no small amount of hokum in the legends of the early days, though.

Meeker, who played under Smythe, felt all the team success was the product of Selke and Day. MLG was certainly an accomplishment.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good luck…

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

You got me at Sidney Crosby. Good job :)

"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.

by Leafer87 on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Who?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Now that’s a difficult task, narrowing nearly 100 years of history into just 4 names. Good job guys.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Unrelated but you don’t usually frequent the CC, I haven’t read his books, but I always read his blog, you should check out How We Decide by Jonah Lehrer.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks. I just read the Art of Choosing by Sheena Iyengar. There’s a great book in there waiting to be written, unfortunately she didn’t find it.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ouch.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s how I feel about Gladwell’s stuff…

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

You’re just a contrarian.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, I think he intentionally dumbs stuff down to make it into a best seller. His conclusions feel really obvious and oversimplified.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s fair, but I think that’s part of what I like about it, it’s extremely readable, and I listened to the audiobooks and he has an awesome voice. More than anything his books make me curious to want to learn more, and make me think about things from a different perspective.

PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 31, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

“His 500th career goal completed a hat trick against Miikka Kiprusoff… shorthanded. you forgot in overtime. That was one hell of a goal.

While I knew you would pick Wendel’s face to be etched in stone there has to be some consideration for the era and teams he was on. For a certain generation Wendel was the sole reason hockey / the maple leafs were worth watching, the only thing we Leafs fans could take pride in! (well I loved Zezel and his FO ability… strange I know).

by Eterrible on Aug 31, 2010 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Welcome

Thanks for joining.

Clark’s impact is why he gets the halo. He was a shining beacon of light during a dark, dark period.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Read the sentence before that one.

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by Chemmy on Aug 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

can't please everyone

and arguably, there are numerous candidates from the pre-67 Leafs days. Not exactly a lot of wrong choices, just difficult to whittle it down to one.

I’d have done it differently, but I’ve got no issue with the names you guys have picked.

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

I had the thought last night when I was trying to guess for PPP’s Twitter pimping of this: if something like this were done in 1967, there would have still been massive disagreement over which four Leafs were most representative.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

and, as the intro outlines, there is a wealth to this franchise…

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

If my dad used the Internet for anything other than forwarding me emails he finds funny, he’d be up in arms that ANY of those four beat Keon. None of us seem to find Keon’s exclusion exceptionally controversial. I’m really curious how fans will talk about all of these guys in 10, 20, 30, 40 years, etc.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking last night that Keon would actually be an amazing choice. His cups, his Conn Smythe Trophy, and his rage at Leafs’ ownership while embracing the fans.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I still hate Youtube for not having CBC’s coverage of that night when he came back. That standing ovation was crazy.

Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul

by Clawson on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

he’d be up in arms that ANY of those four beat Keon.

My dad too.

Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...

by mf37 on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Keon is one of the names I’d put ahead of Kennedy…

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Keon I’d put ahead of the other three, well maybe not Mats.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Aug 31, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t like the whole inclusion of owners thing, but Smythe isn’t just another owner, so I get that. Were it me, I’d have stuck with players.

I’d also have made DAMN SURE TURK BRODA WAS UP….

excuse me, Turk Broda should have a place up there.

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t put him ahead of Teeder, but I’d listen on the others.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve found that, since Kennedy’s death, he all of a sudden seems to be the popular choice for the Leafs heyday. I don’t recall all that much being made of him prior to that. It used to be Keon this and Armstrong that…

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

there were 2 real hey-days… the 60’s and the 40’s.

Kennedy was the man in the 40’s.

Armstrong was the guy in the 60’s.

I’m not sure this is something that needs debate in any way, so I’ll refrain from trying to make it sound like I’m arguing with anything here.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Broda’s just as big a part of those 40s cup wins. A 1.10 GAA in the playoffs ain’t nothing to sneeze at…

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

1.10

was his GAA in ONE year of the playoffs. He won the Vezina twice, and was an NHL All-Star (1st or 2nd team) three times.

He definitely warrants a mention.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Aug 31, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

He got one.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

and

1.33

and 1.57

and, yes, as PPP says he got “mentioned”

I’ll shut up now.

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the mention of Smythe giving him his own MVP award because he got overlooked could be a part of that.

Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul

by Clawson on Aug 31, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll plead ignorance on not championing Teeder more prior to his death. Doesn’t mean he’s overrated necessarily just that people forgot. It had been half a century since he retired.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

TURK BRODA

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

He got one too!

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

You weren’t reading me, then…. :)

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

i didn’t show up here until 08, and by the time you were doing your posts on the 40s, Kennedy had already passed I think…

This is my BOZAK!!!1

by blurr1974 on Aug 31, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

My shtick hasn’t always been here, tho’.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it’s not like we put on Nikolai Antropov (DAMN YOU CHEMMY) or did anything insane.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah the only two who NEED to be on there in my opinion were Conn Smythe and Teeder. The rest was just a crapshoot.

Not Liking Nikolai Kulemin Means You Have No Soul

by Clawson on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great job guys.
I still do wish there was a spot for Johnny Bower, but I can’t say any of the people you chose deserve to be replaced with him.

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Valley of the ten peaks

Valley of the ten Leafs, say I:

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s what the Leafs would have to do!

"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky

by Karina on Aug 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

We’d still be arguing. We need “valley of the seventeen,” or something.

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Which is the correct number.

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Aug 31, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

picked it for a reason

Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.

by 1967ers on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply act