Mount Puckmore
by Chemmy on Aug 6, 2010 10:32 AM EDT
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I'm sure most of you are aware of Puck Daddy's "Mount Puckmore" series where people decide on the four faces of a franchise that should be engraved on a mountain. PPP and I have been asked to do this for the Leafs and we'd like to open the discussion to you folks: our beloved users.
Talking to PPP we think there are two main debates to have. Do we as Leafs fans only put recent players on based on our experiences or should recent players be left off in favor of men who hoisted the Cup in Toronto? With a team with as much history as the Leafs can we afford to put two players on Mount Puckmore who both played in the same decade and never brought a cup home to Toronto?
Can we put both Mats Sundin and Wendel Clark on Mount Puckmore? We could but that would mean only two more spots and a long list of deserving faces: Bill Barilko, Syl Apps, George Armstrong, Dave Keon, Darryl Sittler, Borje Salming. All of those guys deserve to be on the mountain and I haven't even listed everyone. What about Teeder Kennedy? What about Ace Bailey?
What do you think PPPers? Who are your four? Choose wisely.
If you feel particularly passionate and want to expand on your thoughts a FanPost would be a good way to make your case. Anyone taking the challenge goes into the draw for one of two surprise prizes.
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I have listed everyone.
sorta takes the fun out of it, huh?
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 6, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions
So we’re all clear on the rules: there will be righteous fury for any badmouthing of Sundin or Clark.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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So so much of it.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Beset on all sides
..And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 6, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Do they speak english in What?
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 6, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Borje Salming is a lock. He was important to the Leafs and also was instrumental in bringing Swedes to North America to play in the NHL.
On a team with 13 Cups it’s interesting that three of your four players never played for one.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I think it depends on the player. Ray Bourque would still be considered one of the top 5 defensemen of all time if he hadn’t won a cup in Colorado.
but no pop
Bourque <3
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 6, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
sneak preview?
who’s your fab-4 for beantown?
orr, bourque, esposito, bucyk?
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 6, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What about
Neely?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
fan fav
but i dont think he comes close to supplanting any of those 3
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 6, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston already went: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Mount-Puckmore-The-four-faces-of-the-Boston-Bru?urn=nhl-259942
Orr, Borque, Neely, & Milt Schmidt
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Aug 6, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sundin and Sittler because they are the two best offensive players in Leaf history. Armstrong because of his tenure as the longest serving captain and led the Leafs to four cups. Salming because he’s the greatest defenseman to ever play for the Buds.
I can’t realistically put Clark or Gilmour on there. They just don’t compare.
but no pop
This is a list I can get behind.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 6, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Colby? He hasn’t even played a game for us yet!
/lamejoke
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Aug 6, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
cheeeEEEEeeeese
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I was waiting on someone to make that joke.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I aim to please.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Aug 6, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Clark
Sittler
Keon
Big M
A Nation of Masochists
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
good pick on Bower.. was just about to bring up his name!
Dull Skates and Broken Twigs "Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men win." -Brian Burke
Teeder
Chief
Horton
Wendel
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Aug 6, 2010 10:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Conn Smythe
Teeder Kennedy
Mats Sundin
Bjore Salming
The best owner, captain, forward, and defenseman in team history. If I could expand it to 5, I’d add in Turk Broda for being the best goalie.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Second.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
thumbs up
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 6, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
crap this is hard
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 6, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Wendel
Mats
Bower
Teeder
Alternate:
Horton
Dull Skates and Broken Twigs "Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men win." -Brian Burke
One of the benefits of being a fan of this franchise is that there are fans out there who could make a list and not have to include anyone who played for the team past 1985 or so. They would obviously be ignoring some greats, but guys like Keon and Sittler are going to get overlooked because they played before most of us can remember.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Without sounding callous, Sundin played in the dead puck era and scored a whole lot more than Keon did in about the same number of games. Neither lifted the Cup in Toronto.
I don’t think Keon makes the cut.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Oh totally agree, Sundin is a lock. But I know there is a generation of Leafs fans who identify Keon as their hero is all.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Right. Sundin and Sittler are very similar in terms of scoring and overall impact to the franchise in my mind: elite players who never won a Cup here.
Keon’s a step back from them.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Keon is the third highest scoring Leaf ever…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
All 3 played at least 800 games as a Leaf. Sundin and Sittler averaged over 1 ppg. Keon only averaged .81
but no pop
Babe Dye had 1.21 PPG for his career with the Leafs. Should he get docked because he played in fewer games?
I don’t think PPG is any heavier a weight than Cup wins. I’d say it’s less. The Cup is thing to me…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
working on it
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So much more to a hockey player than ppg.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re not arguing 0.9 vs 1.0. Sundin scored 33% more than Keon.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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IF you’re comparing strictly offensive numbers, Rick Vaive should make it.
He won the Conn Smythe, because he shut down THE Jean Beliveau in 1967.
He also hated Ballard with the same vigour as the fans.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
VAIVE
♥ VAIVE ♥
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
You can’t.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Dave Keon? Pretty sure Keon won a bunch of Cups in Toronto.
Kennedy
Keon
Clark
Sittler
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Keon won 4, my eyes must have glazed over while checking Hockey-reference.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/keonda01.html
Pension Plan Puppets*
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PS. Only Leaf to win the Conn Smythe trophy, squeeze him in there.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re making a good argument.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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He is, we’re going to need a bigger mountain.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we could be jerks and do pre and post expansion…
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It only seems fair, Ottawa and Anaheim had to pick 4 people from 17 years.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
and the Sens couldn’t even come up with a fourth!
Dull Skates and Broken Twigs "Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men win." -Brian Burke
so awesome, their mount puckmore is a disgrace
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was actually quite clever.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
well, i see the cleverness as well, its a different take on a rather ordinary idea, but the fact that the story of the ottawa senators is centered around nothing but failure is rather uplifting.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 6, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
not necessarily uplifting, but the sad reality
do the same with the raptors, and you’d have stoudamire leaving, mcgrady leaving, carter leaving, and bosh leaving.
hmmm.. seems like it’d be more of a crater than a mountain.
hmmm.. seems like it’d be more of a crater than a mountain.(p.s. if i was DHS, i would have taken the opportunity to toss in a carrie underwood reference. carrie underwood is always a good thing.)
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 6, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but the Raptors are a joke…
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah.
hence the bombed-out crater jab
i think its the perfect time to scorched-earth that mo-fo and change the name to “Huskies”, change the colours to blue & white (and grey), and re-birth the franchise.
a short history of failure is nothing to hold onto.. plus its a dumb name, voted becasue of jurassic park.
alternatively, someone smarter than me said this a long time ago:
Comparing hockey and basketball is like comparing apples and some fruit no one gives a shit about.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 6, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
They really should do that.
I think it was Chemmy who said that, wasn’t it? Whoever said that it’s pure genius.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
disgracefully HILARIOUS!
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 6, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
nah
i like the idea of making this a difficult decision. I just think too much emphasis is being placed on our personal experiences with players.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya, but it’s not fair for us to judge a player we haven’t seen play. Yes, we’d have his stats, but stats don’t count for all of a player’s greatness. We’d only be judging “the intangibles” on what others say, which would be kind of like thinking “this so-and-so kid from Ontario” is going to be the next Bobby Orr just because Don Cherry likes him.
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
We didn’t see the Duke of Wellington or Nelson fight but we know that they were among the best ever.
The idea of this is to represent the history of the franchise. Focusing just on the past 27 years does a disservice to all who came before.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I’m not saying ignore them, I’m just saying we can’t judge someone we haven’t seen play with complete fairness
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
that’s where stats and accomplishments come into play.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya, but we’re relying completely on stats and accomplishments. We can’t do that, because no one knows better than us that some of the best players in a franchise don’t have Cups (Sundin)
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
cups = accomplishments
stats = stats…you know, goals, points etc…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
hey, when your history is this long…
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Uhh pre- and post- expansion also means pre- and post- 1967.
Which means we won’t have to worry as much about how much a Cup weighs
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
Had the Conn Smythe been awarded back then, Teeder would probably have three.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
“Had” and “Probably” = speculation.
I do speculation, not you.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The Hockey News actually convened a panel in 2001 that “awarded” these.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Any link?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Other Leafs “winners”: Pulford, Bower, Broda, Apps, Drillon, Conacher. Only Teeder had multiples.
The wikipedia page for him is a must-read, it is well-researched and thoroughly footnoted.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this list, but depending on how heavily we’re weighting a Cup I might replace Barilko with Salming.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Its a tough choice. Another guy that needs to be mentioned is Mahovlich. Sure he had a rough ending with the Leafs, but he’s considered the best forward of the 60s Dynasty.
Ah ha! But this is our mountain: the things we’re proud of.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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You’re not proud of Mahovlich? The only forwards commonly said to be better than him are pretty uncomparable because they played in different eras (ie Mats).
Big M
Is easily the franchise’s top LW of all-time.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
now there’s a player that Burke should be trying to Clone…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 6, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If he really needed a LWer
He’d get on this now.
And if he needed four of them, he could always line up clones of Mahovlich, Pulford, Clark, and Sid Smith down the west side.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Moutain of shame:
Ballard
JFJ
Toskala
Kerry Fraser
Had to list in a reply so these four asshats dont come in contact with those greats.
Different post
Hold your horses.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
"Mountain of Shame"?
Wouldn’t it be called “Mount Suckmore”
by Shield on Aug 6, 2010 11:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Scenario
Let’s say its Game 7 Stanley Cup Final. Toronto is the home team. MLSE gets access to a time machine and wants to bring anyone, dead or alive, back for the game. They can choose 4 people that will make the ACC go insane. The icons of the franchise?
Who are the 4 you bring in for Game 7? That should be your answer.
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Aug 6, 2010 11:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Is it a time-traveling crowd, too?
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 6, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Air Canada Centre Time Machine.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
fist order of time business:
have the game played in maple leaf gardens. fuck the acc. i want the feeling that the building might actually explode because of all the excitement.
and thats not a metaphor, i mean the feeling that the cold steel bars and old bricks might not be able to withstand the shaking and shouting.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 6, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
More Importantly, what are each one’s entrance music?
Work this into a WWE storyline somehow.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Signed up sepcifically to say:
Clark
Kennedy
Sittler
Bower
Our two best players are cavemen. What is this? Geico?
haha welcome to PP. I think we need more unanswerable arguments to bring lurkers out from the dark.
Dull Skates and Broken Twigs "Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men win." -Brian Burke
*PPP
Dull Skates and Broken Twigs "Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men win." -Brian Burke
Welcome
Thanks for joining.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
No love for George Armstrong?
Longest serving Leaf (1187 g)
Longest tenured Leaf captain (11 seasons)
Fifth all-time in Leafs scoring
Seven time NHL All-Star
Led Leafs to 4 Cups (62, 63, 64, 67)
but no pop
DOOD
some of us are still working here… :P
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m really surprised nobody has mentioned Martin Skoula; we never lost a single game he played in as a Leaf.
by Shield on Aug 6, 2010 11:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
When you put it that way
Martin Skoula FTW!
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
He's definitely a Leaf legend
but top 4? Maybe on the top 10 :P
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 6, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
This seems reasonable.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Armstrong Kennedy Salming Sittler Sundin Keon Clark
I think those are the 7 frontrunners
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Aug 6, 2010 11:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yup.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah…those look good. Dougie would get a nod, but he didn’t last long enough. Awesome hired killer for a few seasons, but not enought longevity.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Tough not to include Conn Smythe as at least a top runnerup
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 6, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
and I feel like we should include Johnny Bower and Gump Worsely.
Johnny Bower has got to be one of the Leafs’ alumni I’m most proud of, he’s gotta be on the list.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 6, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
If you’re going the goalie route Broda’s as good or better a candidate than Bower.
This is really, really hard.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it should be Broda, but I think popular opinion will put Bower on the list.
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Part of the reason I’d put Bower ahead of Broda, to be honest, is his off ice attitude and behavior to this day. I got the chance to see him during the intermission of some AHL game (Flames’ babies against the Marlies, I think), and he was still nothing but class. I just think Bower fits better as “the face of [this] franchise” than Broda would.
i keep seeing “face of the franchise” but nowhere does it say in the instructions that it should be a deciding factor.
to me, Broda was a Leaf lifer. If he managed to live as long as Bower, maybe we’d be saying the same thing. I’d rather pay attention to what they did on the ice…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Face of the franchise you say?
So Carlton the Bear and Leafspace Monika are included yes?
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Sens_suck
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Aug 6, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s three, plus Conn Cmythe and there you have it.
There’s Washington – Conn Smythe
There’s Jefferson – Monika?
There’s Lincoln – Carlton
And Teddy Roosevelt – Sens_Suck
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He represents something on the metaphorical body of Leafs fans, but it’s not the face!
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Steve Dangle!
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
Good point. There’s nothing funny about our drought.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Aug 6, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Steve Dangle is like the annoying little brother Leafs fans wish they didn’t have.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I met Bower as a kid—somehow got to watch a game with him in his perch way up in the rafters. Can’t remember how I won that. What an amazing guy.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree totally.. eight players, that way we can have a quick writeup about the honorable mentions that would be on nearly any other team’s rushmore
Dull Skates and Broken Twigs "Hockey is a man's game. The team with the most real men win." -Brian Burke
(except other original six teams)
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 6, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, the sabres mount rushmore pretty much set in stone.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
yeah, the whole “we have enough players to be on your list of most important players list” argument doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense.
I mean, by that logic shouldn’t Bobby Orr be on the Leafs one? I didn’t think so.
Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Aug 6, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not Toronto's
But Oshawa’s for sure
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
dont forget
Tom Barrasso
Calle Johansson
Phil Housley
Olaf Kolzig
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 6, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Off-Topic.
All this talk about Mount Puckmore makes me want to watch Rushmore again.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
Anyone else too young for this?
I feel so lost here. The top 4 players in my lifetime would be
Sundin
Mogilny
McCabe pre-2006
Kabbie
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
And that’s why you can’t ignore history.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
He’s bound to make the same mistakes… :P
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
how can you put either McCabe or Kaberle above Gary Roberts is beyond me…
/rampant Gary Roberts fanboyism
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgot about him..
Roberts over Kabbie
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
Man those were the glory years…
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Smythe
Conacher
Broda
Barilko
...rely a bit to heavily on alcohol and irony...
by My Poor Friend Me on Aug 6, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
“A FanPost would be a good way to make your case. Anyone taking the challenge goes into the draw for one of two surprise prizes.”
Since Sergei Puckizin already Fan-Shotted this, it’s only fair to put his name in the draw for one of three prizes (if my math is correct).
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:15 AM EDT reply actions
Sorry, fanshot’s not a fanpost and it’s not like Mount Puckmore was a secret.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
So one of four then? That’s only half of one-of-2
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
You drive a hard bargain
Okay, I’m sure he’d settle for one of ten prizes then?
Are you happy now? I’ve lowered my client’s demands to only 10% of the prize pool.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, but the reduction is coming out of your cut.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 8, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I like STP’s idea. But if you’re gonna SHAFT me, I’ll maybe elaborate and repost.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 8, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Salming is a lock. Plus, his skate-scarred face is perfect.
Armstrong and Kennedy aptly represent the glory years, and are impossible to overlook.
That leaves just one spot to choose between Sitler, Sundin, Clark or Bower. And I’m a little surprised no-one’s mentioned Killer. I’d be tempted to take Sundin just to remind people that the Leafs actually had decent teams more recently than 1979.
I've been looking at the sky
I don’t think anyone can justify leaving some of the great names in this discussion out in favour of Gilmour.
He’s not even in my top 10.
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Aug 6, 2010 11:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t have Gilmour in my top four either, but I’d rate him as highly as Barilko, Clark or the big M. He did play six big seasons here, including the best of his career.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 6, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
love Gilmour, but had a tough time putting him over so many other Leafs…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, it’s true. If this were about who I see as the face of the franchise, Dougie is on it, but he does not belong on this one.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone here loves Clark and Gilmour, because most of us grew up watching them. But they aren’t the same level as some of the other guys mentioned.
but no pop
You can’t ignore the whole “face of the franchise” instructions. When I think of the Leafs, I think of Wendel.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
No, but you also can’t isolate it to your own experiences either.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
When you think of them now people think Burke or MLSE.
I look at face of the franchise as the people you’d tell a new fan they NEEDED to know about in order to be good fans.
Think Bill Shankly or Bob Paisley for Liverpool or Alex Ferguson or Matt Busby for Manchester United.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Who?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Too many faces
Which is why Wendel didn’t even make my 6-man mountain. Was merely nudging the convo along by reminding us all of Wysh’s wishes.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s tough. You have to try and separate your own experiences from the equation. Look at the Wings. It will probably be Yzerman, Lidstrom, Howe, and Delvecchio. Some folks are going to be really upset that Federov or Lindsay were left off.
but no pop
Sid Abel’s omission would be blasphemy, as well
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
2 pre 2 post
How about we have two pre expansion and 2 post expansion and then have honorable mentions?!?
Sundin sittler bower armstrong
by hockeyphreak on Aug 6, 2010 11:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Basically
Your list should include only 3 people because Conn Smythe is going to be on it.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Punch Imlach gets screwed in the builders category for this reason
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Imlach gets screwed in the builders category for the demo job he did post-1967.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
If Burke won four cups this decade
Nobody would care if he then dropped Kessel, Bozak, Schenn, and their 12 rings.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Good Point
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re saying Smythe is there.
Chemmy is saying Salming is there.
I think the other two spots need to be one of Sundin and Sittler and one of Armstrong and Kennedy.
Kills me to leave Clark off…
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Aug 6, 2010 11:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just might go with Armstrong because of how they called him in to coach in the 80s. It was only for a few games if I recall. It adds one more notch to his belt.
by Leaf in Habland on Aug 6, 2010 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
- Turk Broda – Played his entire career with the Leafs. Backstopped them to 5 cup wins. Most wins for a Leafs goalie, all time.
- George Armstrong – Captained the Leafs to 4 Stanley Cups, most games played in the blue and white. Longest serving captain in Leafs history.
- Mats Sundin – highest scoring Leaf of all time. an 8 time All-Star. 7th all time for game winning goals. Spent 11 seasons as captain and face of the franchise. First European to ever be drafted #1 overall in the NHL.
- A TIE! (Either Borje Salming or Darryl Sittler) Salming is widely considered one of the catalysts for the NHL drafting European born players. He’s also the highest scoring d-man in Leafs’ franchise history, and he took a skate to the face once. Sittler holds the record for most points scored in a game and was the first Leaf in history to hit the 100 point season.
Honorable mentions too long to list…
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions
Great list, and maybe instead of the “TIE” that spot goes to Conn Symthe?
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
sounds like it should, now that I see P3s comment
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Not that he deserves a spot
Still, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned Henderson.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions
Henderson can be on my Team Canada Mount Puckmore
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Seconded
Alongside 99, 66, and Ryan Smyth (?)
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with everyone saying we have way too much history for this kind of thing so i’m narrowing it down a bit here…so far i tihnk the most common one’s i’m seeing are:
Chief
Sittler
Salming
Sundin
Clark
there’ve been some Teeder’s and some Mahovolich’s, a few Conn Smythe’s and a couple Bower’s.
I’m surprised guys like Barillko have bin mentioned but not Killer….i haven’t seen one mention of Dougie yet, and he was agruably one of our biggest stars and biggest fan favorites.
I think you gotta at least get one goalie in there cus our franchise has relied on goaltending more often than it should have in its history with our last cup coming off a Sawchuck/Bower tandem and recently we’ve relied on guys like The Cat, Cujo and Eddie….i’d stick Bower on there.
So, you need a goalie, i think you gotta give one spot to either Punch Imlach or Conn Smythe (likely Smythe)
I also like the Salming suggestions, he deserves alot of credit but honestly i’d put Chief in there before Salming…and that leaves one spot for either sundin or sittler i tihnk…gotta give some love to the offensive leaders
….. at Belinda Stronachs house?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 6, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
or however you spell her name….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Aug 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Heyo!
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
posted my choices in the other fanshot, but ill toss’em out one more time
Conne Smythe
Ted Kennedy
George Armstrong
Mats Sundin
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
see i like that list but im hesitant to endorse Teeder as a top 4 face of the franchise.
On that list you’ve got the longest serving captain, the greatest offensive forward of the post-expansion era, one of the founding owners and great builders of the NHL and then Teeder…who is no slouch by any means and would make a longer list…but like i said in my post, we’re a team that leans on goaltenders alot and you gotta put arguably our most recognizable goaltender up there and that would be Bower.
Yea, seems fair.
I am thinking along the lines of
Symthe
Armstrong
Sundin
Broda
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, I was going to put that.
Basically you need either a D or Goalie on the list, so choose one of either Salming or Broda.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
see, it kills me to think that Broda is a bigger face of the franchise than Bower though…numbers-wise they’re pretty much the same becasue i’m pretty sure they both won the Vezina twice and Broda had 5 cups to Bower’s 4
But when i think back, the face of Leafs goaltending would be Bower just becasue he was there for our last one….just me though…that’s a tough decision.
True, as case can be made for Bower as well.
The last spot is between Bower, Broda or Salming.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Signing off on Smythe, Sundin, Armstrong and either Bower or Salming
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Aug 6, 2010 12:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That list is looking pretty good. Tough call on the last spot.
Keep Bower, replace Sundin with Salming – the original Swede, leading Defensive scorer. If he didn’t play in the thick of the Ballard years, his Leafs teams would’ve accomplished much more.
I do like Sundin a lot though. Don’t want to be confused with that Wendel For Life guy
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Aug 6, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we agree. I might fanpost this.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
MATS
any other 3 you guys decide is fine by me.
Yesterday is dead, but not my memory.
by daoust on Aug 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yea, I think Mats is a lock at this point.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
My list
Re-posting this image from the original fanshot. I believe these four most accurately represent the type of men the Mount Puckmore Contest is looking for. That is to say, the four men us Leafs fans most strongly associate with our franchise. Not the four best players, but rather the four we most often think of. This is why I’ve included Wendel Clark. As was discussed in the fanshot, he was certainly less talented than a lot of other Leafs greats, but there’s no denying that he is one of the most recognizable and most talked-about Leafs.
Also we discussed how lame Puck Daddy’s Photoshop jobs are. Whichever four Leafs greats make the final list, I’ll do a decent Photoshop job similar to this and fanshot it.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 11:53 AM EDT reply actions
Aw, why is Sundin wearing his helmet?
We need him in all his bald greatness
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
This can be arranged. As I explained in the fanshot, this was just a 10 minute experiment to see how I could make it look. I basically just took the first image of each guy on google that was at approximately the right angle. If people want to send me links to better images once we decide on the final 4 I’d appreciate it.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Starting my search..
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
My images aren’t coming up when I preview it.. I don’t get the new google images.
Anyways, I found a couple under “Mats sundin bald”
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
The other issue is size. There’s one from great angle of him without a helmet on in his Team Sweden jersey, but it’s only 380×323 pixels. I need something of decent size (ie. at least 500 pixels per size, bare minimum) to work with. The Mount Rushmore background I work with is about 2,000 pixels per side and I scale it down ridiculously to be the size you see posted here.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
PPP and Chemmy
You guys need to give Gallof a day off and commission Mape-sy here as your illustrator.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
If it was our choice we’d choose one of multiple photoshop kings here.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The Masked Avenger must have hacked Greg’s iPhone and obtained compromising pics of Wysh. I see no other explanation for the love he gets.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
if we're photoshopping faces
somehow the case needs to be made for Ian White….
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
That uniform is surprisingly similar to Admiral Ackbar’s
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
moustache is consuming face
Today's tears will become tommorows Rain.
by Future_considerations on Aug 6, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Faster than Wellwood comsumes Pixy Stix
It’s a Jap(adog)!
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Picking 4 is excruciating
George Armstrong
Borje Salming
Wendel Clark
Mats Sundin
If I don’t end up being too lazy (big if) I’ll write a lengthier explanation this weekend. I think those pretty much have to be the four.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
there should be a mount Stachemore for the leafs too
Lanny, Macoun, Burns and Wendel
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
something I wrote a couple years ago
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
“It is rumored that the left side of his mustache weighed a whopping 26lbs, a full 2lbs heavier than the right side. This helped Lanny by giving him the ability to change direction at the drop of a hat simply by turning his head.”
Too funny.
Nevertheless, I must insist you revisit the subject and comply with your readers’ demands for a larger sample size. The man on the right man deserves it. (And the man on the left also deserves to be captured somewhere on this post of glorious Leafs heroes, as well).
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Another way to look at this would be to make it anaolgous to the faces on Rushmore
There’s Washington – The greatest true leader.
There’s Jefferson – The brains of the operation.
There’s Lincoln – The soft spoken but hard hitting leader who had an unfortunate end.
And Teddy Roosevelt – The brash, in your face lemme show you why America kicks ass president.
So which Leafs match up to those personalities?
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Washington – Armstrong
Jefferson – Smythe
Lincoln – MacDonald (?)
Roosevelt – Clark
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I like this method best, with Mats as Lincoln (“assassinated” by the press and some stupid fans).
Based just on hockey terms, I’d replace Clark with Salming because of his overall impact on the game, and the fact that he is the top-scoring d-man.
What is unfortunate about this discussion (but certainly not surprising) is that none of the players from the last few years are mentioned. Could Kessel be there if we were to have this conversation in 20 years? Dion? Schenn? Kadri? In 20 years, we’ll know…
by Leaf in Habland on Aug 6, 2010 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Salming would be an acceptable Roosevelt as he helped add Europeans to the “melting pot” of the NHL.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If we’re using their personal lives Glenn Anderson would be a good Jefferson.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
It's tough to ignore different eras in Leafs history
Mats Sundin
Johnny Bower
Teeder Kennedy
Borje Salming
Sad thing is we could easily swap in so many others. Frank Mahovich, Dave Keon, the Chief, Syl Apps, Charlie Conacher, Doug Gilmour, Wendel Clark, Rick Vaive, Turk Broda, Tim Horton. It’s a long list of team icons.
Oddly, the all mustache Mount Puckmore:
Lanny Macdonald
Eddie Shack
Wendel Clark
Bill Derlago
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 6, 2010 12:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Pat Burns stach gazes at you with steely dissapointmen
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I stuck to players only. But Burns had a good one.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
by blindfolded tank driver on Aug 6, 2010 12:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Before we pick the best four
How do we weight our selections?
Longevity
Production
Cups
‘Face of the Franchise’
Playoff Performance
]
Or is this all completely subjective?
Pick 8-10, profile them and then have a vote.
Better yet, list 8 players that have been named multiple times and then someone on PPP can ‘champion’ them by trying to write a persuasive fan post for them to be on the mountain.
Then have a vote
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
I would go for generational icons. You could argue over who should represent each era, but I think it’s best to show four distinct periods in Leaf history.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Aug 6, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Voting? Do you remember the last time someone tried to install a democracy here? It didn’t end well.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
Yah, but that was a sham vote – similar to the 2000 presidential elections in the States.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The tanks are already warming up.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I wrote in PPP/Chemmy, even though it wasn’t a voting option.
Remember that!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a suggestion for how to resolve this:
Pick a list of the top 10 that everyone agrees should be mentioned. Post a fanshot with that list of 10. Have everyone list in the comments, in order, how they would rank them from 1-10. When everyone has provided their ranking (or at the end of a pre-determined amount of time) add up the numbers of each Leafs’ great’s rankings. The four with the lowest totals are the four we go with.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:31 PM EDT reply actions
Or
just appoint somebody we trust to make the decision.
Frankly, there’s not going to be a set of 4 that will appease everyone.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Aug 6, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I vote for me
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
better him than Higgins
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
no room for Bobby after rick nash
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
waiting for that…
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. There aren’t 4, but it will be a lot easier to pick 10 that could reasonably satisfy everyone, so then at least everyone’s top 4 has a shot at making it, and the results will at least partially reflect their top 4 selection.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey that’s how the real mount rushmore was decided. Also Mount Rushmore is bullshit, according to Penn & Teller.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's start with a list of finalists - In no particular order
Smythe
Armstrong
Sundin
Bower
Broda
Kennedy (really, not too many mentions of this guy – he seems ‘pretty good’)
Salming
Apps (not just a great hockey player – guy took 2 years of his hockey prime to go to WW2)
Mahovlich
Sittler
Kills me to leave Dougie and Wendel and a few others off this list – but they don’t quite make it there.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:39 PM EDT reply actions
I disagree about leaving Wendel off. Not a day goes by that Wendel’s name isn’t used (invoked in reverance) here at least a dozen times. The man has god-like status. The exact instructions from Puck Daddy are:
These four people are who you remember most when you think of these teams — whether they are players, coaches or executives.
So I would say that Wendel is remembered more often than any other Leaf.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The issue I have with that is the Leafs have a 90+ year history, fairly certain that if we were old enough Wendel would not make the list in our minds.
If it was ‘Pick one player from every 25 years who was the face of the franchise’ then Wendel would be in consideration.
Difficult to choose if we don’t have a criteria for picking these players. Right now the criteria is pretty ambiguous.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
so then we should define the criteria….guys picking the Senators 4 didn’t have to touch this issue but i think we do….i think we need to figure out what we’re lookin for…
memories?
wins?
leadership?
history?
all would have different faces…and ya, some would overlap, but we need to define what we’re lookin for
also
just for the record, Gilmour is my favourite Leaf and he didn’t make my list.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too.
He’s probably not in the Top 20 if I’m looking at this historically.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
…fairly certain that if we were old enough Wendel would not make the list in our minds.
But we aren’t old enough. I’m absolutely certain none of us here are. I don’t think the instructions are implying “If, hypothetically, you lived through the entire Leafs’ franchise history, who would be your top 4?” It’s asking now, in the present, who are the 4 most memorable men you associate with the franchise. If we were going to consider the entire scope of the Leafs history as equally important, wouldn’t the guy who scored the first ever goal in a Leafs’ uniform make the list, since that was clearly a huge moment in franchise history?
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
But I think the idea of using Mount Rushmore, more than being an opportunity for photo shop is about considering the entire scope of the team.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
There is a strong element of history here – if we just put people on who were popular to our generation then you are ignoring the rest of the long history of the team.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I wrote that in the wrong way. For example, I argue for Tim Horton and Conn Smythe as two of the top 4. Neither was alive in my lifetime. Yet, I know all about them and they immdiately come to mind when I think of the Leafs. So in the spirit of what the competition is asking for I include them. I’m not suggesting that we should forget about 70+ years of Leafs history, just that we should keep what the fans now think at the front and centre of the discussion.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe everyone just needs to go and read about a few of the guys on my list above to understand why they should be considered.
Not knowing history does not make for a good argument for leaving these guys out of the conversation, IMO
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Bah, I’m doing terribly at this! haha I think that as a true Leafs fan you should have at least some grasp on the history. I agree with you completely, ignorance is not acceptable. If someone says the name “Bill Barilko” and you have no idea who that is yet call yourself a Leafs fan, I think your claim is a sham. I’m not trying to advocate 10 year old boys voting on this and selecting Kessel, Phaneuf, Gustavsson, and Schenn as the top 4 Leafs of all time. I’m just trying to say that we should be considering the top 4 knowledgeable Leafs fans identify most often with.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t necessarily disagree with picking guys who stand out in the collective consciousness of Leaf fans, I’m just not sure we can agree on who those players are.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
Barilko’s career was only 4.5 seasons long. He scored a big goal, died in an accident, and 30 years later had a popular song written about him. Without the latter, I’m not sure many of us “knowledgeable” fans would remember much about him.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 6, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
well… his number is retired. He’d still be an important historical footnote in leafs history even without the song. The reason they even wrote the song is because his story was so famous
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
The story was famous but he’s not for his playing beyond the “What If?” factor. He’s definitely not going on.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d been a Hockey News subscriber for four years before the song came out, but I’d never heard his story until then. I may have been aware of his retired number, I knew that was because he died while a Leaf, not because of anything on the ice.
He is an interesting historical footnote, and was a very good player, but I don’t know that he’s a key part of being a Leafs fan.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 6, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
see i actually think on that list Wendel makes it…heart and soul of the post-ballard leafs…won the fans…iddn’t win much else, but deserves a mention as the face of our franchise…who would you take off? i’d take off Broda, cus IMO Bower takes the goaltending spot on that list. You take a look at leafs goaltending history and who do you think of? Johnny Bower. and you know we’re not havin more than one ’tender on the list
Mats doesn’t deserve to be on the mountain. Great career, great Leaf and holds some records, but so does Kaberle at his position and I don’t see anybody including him?
I think as Leaf fans—can’t believe I’m going to say this—we have to take a cue from Habs fans.
Players on that hill should have brought glory to this team. A championship should be the price of entry. Why are we celebrating individual names instead of the front of the jersey here? As a franchise we need to expect more. Doesn’t mean we can’t love Dougie and Clark and Sittler, but hockey players need to know; if you want to be immortalized here you need to fucking win.
That’s my two pennies.
what records does Kaberle hold…?
I have nothing interesting to say.
by blurr1974 on Aug 6, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Most instances of “!!!1” inspired.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Aug 6, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
rosiest cheeks
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Most fans saying
SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
I think he might hold the NHL all-time record there.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
I agree
So, do we just throw out the last 43 years of Leaf history because we haven’t won a Cup?
This struggle and long drought defines us just as much as Leaf fans as the 13 cup wins.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
This contest is for individual players. The Stanley Cup is won as a team. Did Keon, Armstrong, or Kennedy win the cup solely on their own? No.
but no pop
Rings should be used as a tiebreak. If someones accomplishments are so great that leaving them off is an insult, then they are in. But if you cannot choose between two equally deserving options, THEN check the rings.
Resident Capologist
by clrkaitken on Aug 6, 2010 1:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Difference between us and the Habs, is that they’ve won the cup more often, and in recent memory (1993), while our cup drought is 43 fucking years. So using a cup win as a sole deciding factor alienates a lot of fans who weren’t even born during those times.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Since it’s based on mount rushmore, it’s based on the defining people of a nation.
Was Mats Sundin a defining part of our franchise?
Borje Salming might make the grade based on his trailblazing, but maybe that puts him on Sweden’s mount puckmore, not ours.
Also, that was just bad grammar on the Kaberle thing: I meant Kaberle has had a long career and a great one here… the records no.
The championship argument’s been used already, but I just can’t agree with it. As has been pointed out on occasions innumerable, the Stanley Cup is won as a team – it’s not fair to penalise Sundin or Wendel because the team around them wasn’t good enough, and you cannot deny they didn’t give it their all.
Before we can start picking people we really need to resolve what the criteria are for going on the mountain.
people decide on the four faces of a franchise that should be engraved on a mountain
Ok, so what exactly does that mean? Define that, and then we can argue lists all day long.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:50 PM EDT reply actions
This is why I like the “positional” arugment.
You need a builder or executive.
You need a leader/captain
You need the best talent to ever play for the team
You need the best defenseman or goalie.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is a concept I can get behind.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
see this doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me…it gets it down to debates on specific things rather than overall deservance.
Lets get real…as fans, we love our leafs to death, and as a franchise we could put at least 10 deserving guys up on that mountain…but you gotta narrow it down to a more controlled debate.
that’s all I am saying.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
and you know what? this comes in line with what we’ve already narrowed it down to more or less…
builder – Smythe
leader – Armstrong
talent- up for debate
D-man/Goalie – Salming/Bower (or Broda, he keeps coming up)
D-man/goalie
I’d go with either Barilko or Horton.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather look at the four things specifically "Leaf’ and pick their most appropriate representatives. Every team has a builder, a leader, a great talent, etc.
I’d go:
Dynasty years – Armstrong or Kennedy
Surviving Ballard – Salming or Sittler
Rock bottom – Tough to see this not being Clark
Recovery – Sundin
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
I like this idea too. But I think that executives need to have a spot.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not opposed to executives per se, I just don’t think we have one who’s more important than those. I understand the arguments for Smythe but I’m not persuaded.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
BUILT MAPLE LEAF GARDENS DURING THE GREAT DEPRESSION.
Even the epic nature of this ignores everything he did after that. How are you not persuaded?
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, that was going to be my exact comment.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
His major contribution was having cash. Good on him for being the one to use that cash to do something really great, but what he brought to the table was replaceable.
I also hold spawning Stafford against him.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
I’m speechless. I actually don’t know what to say.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
His name appears on the Stanley Cup 11 times… but you think all he was good for was having deep pockets? WOW.
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see why we would celebrate
“rock bottom”…. that’s like the US putting Richard Nixon on Mt. Rushmore… no offense to Wendel intended, but riding out the storm isn’t necessarily something I’d want to see celebrated.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Perhaps poorly labeled. The 80s are rock bottom. Wendel comes along half way through and reminds fans there’s a chance of getting out of that.
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
I suppose
but I think Sundin or Gilmour had more to do with getting out of it than Wendel did as a result of his back injuries.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
That’s the beauty. You people can each select what it means to you and then Chemmy and I are going to choose Conn Smythe, Allan Bester, Felix Potvin, and probably Mats Sundin.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You forgot
Borschevsky
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 6, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not really going to read everyone's posting, but based on what I quickly looked over
I think there’s a bit of bias towards more recent Leafs.
Sundin is a lock due to his holding every major offensive record for the Leafs.
beyond that I think it makes sense to select the Leafs leaders from each of the major (and successful eras).
I’d say Ted Kennedy makes sense from the mid 40’s clubs that won the majority of the Leafs Stanley Cups… he played 14 years as a Leaf and won the Cup 5 times… He was an all-star 6 times, and a Hart trophy winner in 1954-55.
George Armstrong makes sense to me from the clubs that won 4 cups in the 60’s because he was the Captain, and the leader on a team without a lot of high powered offense. He was the key cog driving them forwards.
You could actually make a case for Johnny Bower for the same stretch of 4 cups in the 60’s, but I’d rather go with Armstrong personally.
After that I think the most iconic era for the Leafs was the 70’s years with Sittler, MacDonald, and Salming. I think Salming would be the best choice because of his career defensive numbers, his barrier breaking as a European transplant, and the fact that he ONLY ever played for the Leafs. Unlike Sittler and MacDonald who went on to play with other teams.
I would also consider Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour, Charlie Conacher, Syl Apps, Busher Jackson etc. But yeah… I’d go with Sundin, Salming, Armstrong, and Kennedy personally.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
yup, was traded
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Still a shoe-in, in my books.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He is definitely in the conversation – problem is we still aren’t sure what the conversation is.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, it all depends on how you look at it.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
We need a constrained set of criteria for sure, we are too old and too storied of a franchise to just arbitrary pick names.
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if you're doing it
like the US did mt. rushmore (for presidents obviously)… they pick men who changed the course of the nation for all intents and purposes.
I’d say every player that led a major era deserves mention then. Kennedy led them to 6 cups… that’s pretty major. Armstrong was the captain that got them four cups. Salming opened the door to europeans in the NHL, and changed the way D play the game in many ways… while also removing stereotypes to a large extent.
Sundin brought the Leafs into the modern era and took over every scoring title possible.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I could also see arguments
for Conn Smythe… he built maple leaf gardens and basically created the Leafs… he’s sort of like the Leafs equiv to george washington
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
your list is identical tyo mine, with Conne SMythe and Salming battling for that last spot.
Smythe
Kennedy
Armstrong
Sundin
Salming….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
read below – The 67 Sound and I are nearing a consensus with you guys
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm with this.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 6, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
ok then
I suppose salming or sittler would be up for debate with me… I’d still lean towards salming based on his offensive record from the blue line and the whole breaking barriers thing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Did the
Afinogenov signing make it into the FTB this morning? I haven’t looked.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Does that mean we’ve covered the angsting over him not signing with us already?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Aug 6, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh
There’s a very unreliable rumour Leafs offered him same offer Zherdev got – 1 year, $2m. Instead he took the payday and went to the KHL.
Whatevs. I’ve hit the “numb” part of the offseason where it would take a lot to get me riled up.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Wendel
Has to be on Mount Puckmore.
Wendel
Armstrong
Conn Smythe
Mats
I also feel like Dave Keon should be on there if there were a 5th spot.
by billbarilkodisappeared on Aug 6, 2010 1:27 PM EDT reply actions
Those four
are actually in my top 6 – problem is I also have Sittler and Salming in there and I can’t decide whether one of them deserve that last spot over Sundin or not.
The battle of the ’S’s
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I gave you the h/t for coming up with these 4 first.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as ‘S’ goes: Sylvanus Apps
Guy was a pretty damn significant leader of the Leafs. May not have had the number of years that Kennedy and Armstrong did, but in many ways he defines the captaincy. They were his sucessors.
Apps was on my original list before I realized he couldn’t displace Kennedy and there just wasn’t room.
I know there were other captains in there but the Leafs’ succession, for me, goes:
Day
Apps
Kennedy
Armstrong
Keon
Sittler
Clark
Gilmour
Sundin
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok so
I’ve got Salming in place of Smythe… but I can go either way on that one… In a way you could argue Salming has more going for him than Sundin because Sundin wouldn’t be IN the NHL if it wasn’t for the likes of Salming.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Screw it
Whatever 1967er’s fan posts, I’ll agree with him.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions
Good point.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are we arguing about this?
We are talking the Toronto Maple Leafs – More than enough money to have 2 or 3 Mt. Puckmores!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions
Hey, if we can’t come to agreement on our 4… blame it on the fans!
by CanadianMaple09 on Aug 6, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
/Cox
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
If any recent player should be on Mount Puckmore for the Leafs, it should be someone who recently set a Leafs single season record. You all know who I’m talking about: Andrew Raycroft.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90 or add me to XBox Live - CoolJ90
by CoolJ90 on Aug 6, 2010 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
For making me laugh
Waiting on the Dave Nonis era.
by PassivelyTruculent on Aug 6, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
my entry is complete!
But wait, you say, you’re not actually a leafs fan. That’s why i used specific criteria to determine who belonged.
I’d have done this for my sabres Mount Puckmore too, but there’s a problem: Gilbert Perrault is always the answer.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.
Drew Stafford!!!!
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Aug 6, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
brett hull’s left skate!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Kennedy
Bower
Sittler
Gilmour
for their impact on the team, each of these players did something monumental for the team during their tenure, Dougie holds the leafs single season points record, and is responsible for one of the greatest year-to-year turnarounds in club history, Sittler is maybe the greatest homegrown talent Toronto’s ever had, Bower won the Vezina twice, and Kennedy has been described as the prototypical Toronto Maple Leaf and is the last Leaf to win the Hart trophy, and against the likes of Richard and Howe to boot. We could use the likes of these men again.
Don't think, it hurts the team!
"Kneel before Todd!!"
Yes I find myself VERY amusing
this debate could go on forever….
who is the decider for the PD entry?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
Overlords
PPP and I have been asked to do this for the Leafs and we’d like to open the discussion to you folks: our beloved users.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Apps: Classy as all get out, was in the service, believe he was an Olympic level pole vaulter, great on and off the ice. On top of that, his last name leads to endless quip potential these days, which is why I’m getting his jersey. Can’t wait to go to games here in Ottawa: “Class, winning, Cups, skill? I’ve got an Apps for that.” ;)
Sittler: Face of the franchise, 10-point game will never be matched and endured craziness under “Pal Hal” but remains a flagship player for the Leafs.
Salming: Put to rest the “Chicken Swede” myth, a beacon of light through some very, very bad years.
Really struggled with the fourth guy…Sundin had some electric games for us, Clark is the heart and soul, Gilmour heart & soul with more skill, Barilko, Armstrong so many great players had to go with…
Allan Bester: Is there a more underrated guy out there? Sure, that Momesso shot resounds but…haha, just kidding!
- is Gilmour: Powerhouse forward, tireless offensively and defensively, just a fantastic player for us.
"According to the statistics, Bester outperformed his teammates in every league that he ever played in, and was easily the best goalie the Leafs had in the 1980s. Despite this, the Momesso goal was essentially the end of Bester's NHL career."
http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2009/10/underrated-allan-bester.html
by BesterThanYesterday on Aug 6, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
Apps actually came into my head at first too but I think it’s because I thought he was Hap Day.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Aug 6, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i think someone will score 10 in a game again….. someone will probably score 11….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
gretzkey never did it, neither did mario
let that sink in
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
doesnt mean that someone wont come along and do it one day. could be this season, could be 30 years from now, it happened to Darryl and I think it’ll happen to someone else.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
remember when no one would ever break sawchucks shutout record?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
that’s a different thing all together, longevity of a player won’t make them score 10 points in a game.
The fact that it didn’t happen insane goal scoring days of the 80s and 90s when having a 3.00 GAA was a good thing shows just how terribly difficult a feat it is.
sure there is always a small mathematical chance that it could happen it is terribly unlikely
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree.
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Aug 6, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i hear ya jared, and i do agree. Im just throwing out the small mathematical chance that it COULD happen again. All it takes is one really lucky game…. but yes, the odds are overwhealmingly against it happening.
didnt gretzky have a couple 7-8 point games? i think he did come close a couple times…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
best way to sum up my feelings on this, never is a long time….. we may see crazy scoring like we did in the 80’s and 90’s again, it just might not happen until we are all old and grey….. or worse….
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
I can't believe I haven't mentioned this before now
The greatest player to ever come out of my high school wasn’t Peter Worrell or even Vincent Lecavalier. It was almost Sidney Crosby, until the headmaster at Shattuck’s upped the ante and offered to pay for Troy’s new fishing boat, or whatever that story was ….
No, the man with the centre square in our trophy case was none other than the guy who made Sittler, and especially Borje Salming, better players.
One year after helping Sittler accomplish his historic 6 goal, 4 assist feat against the Bruins, it was now Detroit’s turn to feel like Bill Murray in Groudhog Day. In a 9-1 romp over Jim Rutherford’s Wings, the man who showed Borje how to play the North American game, had his own Sittler moment.
While nobody is arguing that he deserves more consideration than Salming on this list of franchise faces, the fact remains that Salming would have been a shell of his future self, had he not come into the league and been paired with the other greatest defenceman of the 70’s Leafs – Ian Turnbull.
Only blueliner to score 5 in a game. First player to ever score 5 on 5 shots. Since we’re reliving the glory years of 76 and 77 and heaping all this praise on Sittler and Salming, I couldn’t let the opportunity pass by without reminding us all that Salming had a partner, and that man was the shit.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 6, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said. He’s not a Puckmore candidate but he was an excellent player who has been too readily forgotten.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 6, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
thats one bad thing about being such a storied and long term franchise, there are a lot of very good, and very influential players that fall through the cracks of time or favoritism.
I wouldnt be surprised if in 20 or so years when people talk about the “good ol 90s” no one remembers Andreychuck or Gartner or Folgino
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Name some of the other bad things
Streams of revenue as wide as the Amazon that cannot be re-invested due to cap constraints?
League-wide influence that will inevitably lead to wider blue-lines, thus opening up more ice in the offensive zones for the elite powerplay units on the other 29 teams?
Ingrained familiarity that causes fans of the Bruins, Sabres, and even Senators to inexplicably migrate to Leaf blogs, thereby forcing you all to be gracious hosts when you’d really rather be talking about what an asshole Alfredsson is?
Meh, I guess things really are tough all over.
As for Andreychuk, he will forever be remembered as the quintessential powerplay scorer. Gartner will always be infamous for getting into the HoF without a ring. And Foligno will go down in history as the guy whose seats at Scotiabank Place were never as good as Carrie Underwood’s or even Hillary Duff’s ;-)
But yeah, I can see those guys being afterthoughts when people are running their series’ of All-Decade articles for the Leafs’ 100th anniversary.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 7, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
other bad things
haters be hating
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 7, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
15-year long inaugural Yotes fans disagree.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 7, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
poor Travis hair
he should have thrown the snake
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 7, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
TWSS?
No, that doesn’t sound right ….
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 7, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt the first two
will be forgotten… Foligno already would have been if he wasn’t still coaching in the AHL and his son weren’t in the NHL… oh and his crazy goal celebration.
Andreychuk had two 50 goal seasons in a Leaf uniform, that doesn’t just go away randomly.
Mike Gartner was one of the top NHLers of the 80’s and 90’s and he had some ridiculous staying power and speed … he’s not going anywhere… .but I doubt he’s remembered as a Leaf… more likely as a Cap, or Ranger. He played 10 years in Washington, he won a cup with the Rangers… he only played in Toronto for 3. He ain’t going to be remembered as a Leaf.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Don’t forget Foligno’s wacky helmet. He looked like he was trying out for the Argos’ kicker.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 7, 2010 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Andreychuk is the all-time leader in PPG with 274, more than Gretzky, Hull, Mario, etc
Gartner never won a cup. He was traded to Toronto in 94 (for Glenn Anderson), only to lose to the Canucks in the CF and watch his former team hoist it only a few weeks later.
Same deal with how people often think Ryan Malone or Ryan Whitney won a cup in Pittsburgh.
by Death_By_Leafs on Aug 8, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Sacrelige!
Misspelled “Gretzky”
:O
What would we have to do to get Crosby on the Leafs...?
Wishful thinking never ends in Leaf Nation. For now, Go Leafs! (and Pens!)
butcher of brantford!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 6, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
No-one’s come close to DiMaggio for a long time. If Gretzky couldn’t do it…
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 6, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s really, really, really irrelevant.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 6, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry, I thought the topic was long-standing sports records that may never be broken.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 6, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, the Sawchuk record. I just saw zero connection with DiMaggio, and the Gretzky comparison made no sense to me.
Me: Any idiot could see that.
Mrs. P: You're not just any idiot, you're the most special kind of idiot.
by Sergei Puckizin on Aug 8, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
OK I have thought about this for most of the day, I don’t think I can do 4. I have 5:
Smythe
Armstrong
Salming
Bower
Sundin
Smythe, Amstrong and Bower HAVE to be there, IMHO, and then Salming and Sundin… I can’t pick.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 7, 2010 1:05 AM EDT reply actions
NOT ALLOWED!
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 7, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
YOUR FACE IS NOT ALLOWED
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 7, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
My face is illegal in 32 states, due to pure amazingness
You may be taking Jared a little too seriously
by JaredFromLondon on Aug 7, 2010 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
When in doubt
I usually go with the Swede.
Wait …. what?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Aug 7, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly :P
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 7, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Mount Puckless
Just to stir the waters, since I’ve got no issues with the shortlist that seems to be forming, my take on the players whose value to the Leafs has been most inflated by the fans (my ’91-10 fandom showing, of course):
Tie Domi
Darcy Tucker
Gary Roberts
I’m stuck for a fourth, because I really don’t want to include Our Wendel Who Art in a Luxury Box. Despite the, ahem, rather intense inflation of his value and prominence among Leafs fans, he really is rather super-fantastically awesome.
Besides, I wouldn’t even get banned, I’d just… disappear one day. Then my wife, my family, friends, and then people who just smiled at me in the park or delivered my mail. Watch out for these people.
So I’m going to go with Eric Lindros, even though as soon as he got here everyone kinda realized it wasn’t going to work.
A modest proposal
Pre-Expansion:
Kennedy
Keon
Barilko
Broda
(Bower and Smythe just missing out)
Post-Expansion:
Sittler
Salming
Clark
Sundin
(Gilmour gets left off)
To do this any other way just seems unfair.
The Maple Leafs and golf- making me insane since 1985.
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