SBN Mock Expansion Draft - Protected List
Monday, we looked at the SBN Expansion Draft and what players to protect on the Leafs' squad. The full details can be found here. The Leafs benefit a lot from the rules exempting guys with little NHL experience. However, the Leafs do still have to leave players unprotected even though we could likely protect the entire team via exemptions and our allotment of protected spots. So without further ado, here's who is remaining a Leaf:
Goaltender
Jonas Gustavsson is being protected and Jean-Sebastien Giguere is free to be picked up by either Gabe or James
Defencemen
Dion Phaneuf, Luke Schenn, Mike Komisarek, Tomas Kaberle, and Francois Beauchemin will be protected during the draft. Jeff Finger and Brett Lebda will be exposed in the draft. (Carl Gunnarsson is exempt.)
Forwards
This is where the exercise becomes tricky. Because of our dearth of players that fit the 40 games played/70 over past two seasons threshold we have to unprotect a player that we would normally be allowed to leave exposed. That means that Phil Kessel, Nikolai Kulemin, Mikhail Grabovski, John Mitchell, Colby Armstrong, Clarke MacArthur, Colton Orr, Fredrik Sjostrom, Mike Zigomanis, and Kris Versteeg are all protected. That leaves Clarke MacArthur Colby Armstrong and Mike Brown as the exposed players in the draft. (The remaining forwards not listed are exempt.)
You can follow the outcome of the draft, which is being held tonight via conference call between Philadelphia, Winnipeg, and Quebec, via the NHL hub over at SBNation.com.
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Giguere will go to the Nords in the Top 10 rounds, while MacArthur will land in Winnipeg by round 25.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:05 AM EDT reply actions
Giguere will go to the Nords in the Top 10 rounds, whileMacArthurArmstrong will land in Winnipeg by round 25.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Not if they take Thomas.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Thomas wouldn't be a horrible choice
but as we were discussing the other day, I imagine Harding gets taken.
And now that I think about it, unless WSH protects both their goalies, they have to expose Varlamov.
20 miles to Legoland!
The only team with the option to protect two goalies is Edmonton. Obviously they won’t be going that route either.
Basically, every team will be exposing their backup/high-priced starter.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much, yeah.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Why only Edmonton?
Basically, every team will be exposing their backup/high-priced starter.
WSH has Varlamov and Neuvirth, I don’t even know if Neuvirth qualifies to be exposed.
20 miles to Legoland!
Only Edmonton because
In order to protect two goalies, you must be able to make available one golaie who has played 10 games last year, or 25 in the past two years.
Now whether or not all 30 teams must expose a goalie, I cannot say, but Edmonton is the only team with three guys who have played 10/25.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh Snap. Nity/Niemi is gonna be available.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Good eye
I wonder when thew deadline (or in this case, earliest point) to submit your protected list is / was?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting—I take it from Zigomanis being on the list that you interpreted the rules that you HAD to protect 9-5-1. IIRC they said “may”.
If you had interpreted it as “may”, would you have exposed Zigomanis? I assume you protected Zigomanis over MacArthur because of a requirement to expose players with certain experience thresholds.
I assume you protected Zigomanis over MacArthur because of a requirement to expose players with certain experience thresholds.
Bingo. Zigomanis doesn’t meet the # of games played criteria for the required 2 exposed fwds.
20 miles to Legoland!
Colton Orr, however, does meet the GP criteria. By exposing MacArthur over Orr, the odds of Lebda getting taken go down, but I’d still have gone that route.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t see Gabe or Mirtle taking Orr, so I’d rather expose him and tempt those guys to take Lebda.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Pretty straightforward
for the Leafs.
I (and I imagine almost everyone else) had the exact same list (although I didn’t protect Zigomanis, I guess just to get to 9 protected fwds).
Funny though, many of us (including myself) bitched about overpaying Armstrong as a UFA, and that he won’t live up to his contract.
Yet MacArthur, at only 1.1M, has a much better chance of being an “efficient” contract.
Yet, we leave MacArthur exposed and Armstrong protected…. interesting. The skill difference is there, but is it worth the price tag?
20 miles to Legoland!
You know what? I totally blew that call. Going to edit it now.
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by PPP on Sep 2, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I see that’s it already been done, but I don’t believe this is the right move.
Regardless of whether MacArthur might outperform his contract, Armstrong’s the better player. If you ranked our forwards in order in terms of their usefulness, Armstrong is probably #6 and MacArthur #9.
Considering neither of these guys have even played a game yet for Toronto, it seems short-sighted to me to get rid of Armstrong over MacArthur.
I guess my point is that an expansion team is definitely going to pick up Armstrong, but they might pass on MacArthur depending what’s available elsewhere.
Resident Capologist
Would you prefer that Lebda got picked over Armstrong? I would. But I only see that happening if Orr is exposed over MacArthur and Armstrong.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
The 3million price tag may make a team balk
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Then it doesn't really matter
and we keep him. His contract is like having another protection spot, kind of like Finger.
20 miles to Legoland!
I think we’d all agree that Armstrong is the better player, but most of us also think that Armstrong’s contract is simply too much. Therefore, if we can get his $3M for 3 years off the books it’s best to take that shot.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens.
My thoughts are that it opens up a spot for a kid to play.
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by PPP on Sep 2, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Old man Armstrong, taking up roster space…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh
$3M old man Armstrong taking up an ELC slot ;)
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at the end of next season, when you’re madly in love with Coby’s ugly face, you’re gonna feel pretty bad for what you did…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not a fan of Colby’s because of the way he plays the game. Leaves his feet when he hits, semi dirty player, big yapper.
However, as a leaf, I may learn to love him.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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I am learning to love him already!
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Sep 2, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Using this logic
we might as well have exposed Kessel… he’s got a $5.4 mill cap hit, while Armstrong is a $3 mill cap hit.
If Kessel gets us 60 points again, and Armstrong gets us 40 points… which one is more “efficient”? Kessel = $90,000 per point, Armstrong = $75,000 per point. Armstrong is the more “efficient” player via this argument.
For Kessel to be MORE efficient than Armstrong at 40 points he has to put up 72 points… possible? Yes… but how much MORE likely is it than Armstrong getting 40?
MacArthur is likely to be more efficient but he’s a worse player than Armstrong, and I’d rather have Armstrong on the team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Where do you stand on the Orr v. MacArthur choice?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
we might as well have exposed Kessel… he’s got a $5.4 mill cap hit, while Armstrong is a $3 mill cap hit.
K now we’re just being silly.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Debating who’s the better player among MacArthur and Armstrong is sort of pointless. It’s slim. Their pay difference? Not slim.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I dunno
MacArthur is terrible defensively, while Armstrong’s very strong defensively. Maybe on offense it’s slim, but I’d take Armstrong over MacArthur 10 times out of 10
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Sep 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
But would you take a 3 mil, 3 year contract over the 1-off?
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
Honestly, I’m starting to see Armstrong as a pretty important piece of the team going forward – there is a definite lack of forwards who play good defense on the Leafs. So yes.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Sep 2, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s a fair enough answer. I really haven’t seen him play, so I’m worried about how well the “defensive forward” piece will line up.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
Armstrong
is a better player than MacArthur, the difference is quite far from slim if you look at their QoC, QoT, Point Production, TOI, +/-, and Experience.
In no way would I rate MacArthur as superior to Armstrong… it’s not even close.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
MacArthur's
career high in points in 35 in 81 games (and he had a -16 rating). He has a career high of 18 goals. His career ATOI is 13:51.
Armstrong’s career high in points is 40 points which he has attained twice. Once in 47 games and once in 82. He has never been a minus player. He has a career high of 22 goals. His career ATOI is 16:08.
Armstrong is a better defensive player, and a better offensive player… while playing in a checking role. I’m not sure how the difference is “slim”.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
But is the difference
worth $1.9M in cap hit? (ignoring for a second the contract length)
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He has a career high of 22 goals
Which he got riding shotgun with Crosby
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
After I finished studying yesterday, I perused other sites to see who they were protecting.
Then I got to Pittsburgh’s site, where they decided they were going to fake sign Shane Hnidy so that they could protect Goligoski.
Way to stay within the spirit of the exercise, Pensburgh.
Resident Capologist
Pensburgh was also mad when Stempniak re-signed with the Coyotes because they wanted him..
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
Hes a valuable commodity. Also the majority of people who cheer for Pittsburgh and Chicago now are 13.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Hey!
I’m not 13!
The Pens actually do have die-hard fans.. granted, a lot of them are young, but that’s not the youngsters’ fault
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
Yeah wasn’t meaning to be a super dick, just now that the bandwagons rolling for both of them the majority of their fans I come across are….Immature?
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
no problem
Both teams do have young fanbases, but you can’t blame someone for being young. Yes, a lot of those people became fans (like me) when Sid/Geno or Toews/Kane came along but I wouldn’t call them bandwagoners because most of them have turned into real fans and would cheer for their teams when they’re losing.
How many Leafs fans became Leafs fans in the Wendel/Dougie/Sundin eras?
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
But the kids who are now Blackhawk fans used to be Pens fans, and next year they’ll be fans of which ever team wins the Cup.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 2, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Real Leafs fans suffered through the 80s.
Now get offa my lawn.
by The '67 Sound on Sep 2, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
What I wouldn’t give for rivals like the ’86 Red Wings or the ’88 North Stars.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I was born in 1984. I kinda wish I was old enough to remember those years
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Oh, that explains your username. I thought there were 1,983 other people named “leafer” here for a while.
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by Chemmy on Sep 2, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fuck.
You.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
no
but there are 1973 other blurrs running around here.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
blurr314 is a total jerk.
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i hate that guy. him and blurr899
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
That blurr1337 was a real character though, definitely the best of the bunch. I still remember the prank he played on blurr182, CLASSIC.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
The generation of men born after the Civil War often felt that they had missed out on an experience with which to define themselves, they didn’t appreciate how bad it really was.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 2, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
so..
does that support me or the seniors?
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
I don’t think the people who fought during the Civil War/watched the 1980s Leafs would want to relive either one, but there’s something to be said for paying your dues and sticking with your team/the Union during it’s darkest hour. I’m guessing General Sherman’s second favourite nation wasn’t the Confederacy.
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 2, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously living/being a true fan during those times is something to be proud of, but that shouldn’t be taking anything away from us youngsters.
I’d like to have been around in the depression years so I can see what all the fuss is about, but I don’t have a choice.. so I’ll have to settle for these depression years instead
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
It’s something I’d never wanted to have suffered through but it did make ‘92-’93 sweeter than anyone who didn’t suffer through the 80s could imagine. Just imagine how great a semifinal run would feel after 7 more years of stinking.
I was born in 1975 so I don’t remember the decent teams of the mid 70s. ’92 was literally the first year in my life I remember the Leafs being over .500. I was freaking 17 years old. It was like being a Pirates fan now.
by The '67 Sound on Sep 2, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, most of them became fans in 92-93, then revived that fanship in 2006
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
ugh
Caps fans.. the bad ones are really bad
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
I actually find Pitts fans to be far worse, sorry man.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
girl..
but it’s all good, people hate Leafs fans too.
I have bad experiences with Caps fans
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
but it’s all good, people hate Leafs fans too.
No shit.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Im a blues fan. Leafs are sort of my team to watch in the East.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Its was one of the reasons yeah. Most of my hockey viewing comes via pirate feeds and the leafs almost always have 3-5.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
I like you.
If I believed in liking two teams, my second team would be the Blues
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
There's always
temperary playoff cheering if they play a hated team.
Like PHX last year.
20 miles to Legoland!
Theres not a lot of Blues coverage and I spend a lot of time watching hockey so its easier to just follow a second team thats in the east. Minn, Nash, and LA I don’t hate and will go out of my way to watch as well but I can’t get too emotionally invested because I will have to hate them 10 times a year.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Minnesota! You’re alright in my book.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Nathan Horton is a Goomba (or check me out on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been defending the Koivu deal vehemently as well if it makes you feel gooder.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
You gotta admit though
at least the structure with the every other year signing bonuses is very odd.
20 miles to Legoland!
Its because of the CBA, I can’t remember the exact reasoning but signing bonuses were CBA protected or something so if things go wonky he will still get paid.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
No NHL season: no salary paid but bonuses get paid.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Interesting
didn’t know that part. Starts to make more sense… I guess. Still looks silly.
I don’t watch him enough to defend or attack whether he’s worth the cap hit or not.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
People were ragging on him because he was getting payed and they had never heard of koivu because no one pays attention to Western teams not named Detroit, Chicago or LA. Top 5 faceoff men in the game, plays PK/PP, zero wingers but puts up 20g/40a. Would take him in a heartbeat over maybe 3 or 4 centers in the game.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
<3
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Nathan Horton is a Goomba (or check me out on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
not our fault we weren’t alive in 92-93
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
aw
Now I’m going to be blamed for global warming aren’t I?
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
She may be too young to know Hanson
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
pssh
I know Christian Hanson!
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
I’m trying to figure out if this is a joke or not…
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
shhhh, go with it
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Nathan Horton is a Goomba (or check me out on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
not really
I haven’t seen Slapshot, and I’m ashamed
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
It’s pretty good, check it out.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHA
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Look at his lip. Somebody threw a fucking tire chain, hit him right in the mouth.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I worked in a record store when these guys first came out. I’ve seen hell…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Scratches, made by human fingernails.
This kid has taken a savage beating.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I know many people who were fans in 92-93 then stopped for some odd reason and are now claiming they are lifelong die hard fans.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
could be, but that’s not all of the fans.
When the Pens weren’t selling tickets, that doesn’t mean literally no one went to their games (plus some people live far away)
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
Or would rather be able to change the channel when the team is losing.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Nathan Horton is a Goomba (or check me out on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s neat. The Leafs have been shit since 2004 and we all still watch.
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That’s neat.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Nathan Horton is a Goomba (or check me out on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Like a fairweather fan?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Exactly!
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying everyone is die-hard.. I’m saying die-hards do exist and the ones who came for Sid/Geno aren’t necessarily fairweather (because they could be young and that’s not their fault)
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
My best buddy got into the Penguins in 92. I gave him a ton of shit when the Penguins were awful but he never wavered in his fandom. I’m happy for him.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Your honour, I’d like to call on my first witness, Chemmy
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
One exception to a generalisation disproves the generalisation
.. or that’s what my math teacher said.
For me, I’d keep watching the Pens if they lose and I’d have a soft spot for them if Sid (my first reason for watching them) leaves.. I don’t know if I’d be called a fan, but I won’t go bandwagon on them
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
uhhh
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
One exception to a generalisation disproves the generalisation
.. or that’s what my math teacher said.
I think you’re trying to get to “the exception that proves the rule”… and that point doesn’t really defend your position in this situation.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
that's not what I'm saying
I’m saying that if someone tells me all Pens fans are bandwagoners and I (or Chemmy) give an exception to that rule, the generalisation is disproved.
My point is that die-hard Pens fans do exist.
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
give an exception to that rule, the generalisation is disproved.
Ya, your math teacher didn’t teach you that right. It’s still a generalization, it’s just not a proof.
Of course die-hard fans exist for all teams, even Sens fans.
Doesn’t mean that there isn’t an emerging majority of fans that tend to fit a certain pattern or type (in this case, age).
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I’m not talking about age because age isn’t the fans’ fault.
I’m talking about die-hardness vs. fairweatherness
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
fairweatherness = cheering for more than one team.
die-hardness = cheering for one team
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
but you can be a fairweather fan of one team
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
The legion of fans the Blackhawks got 4 months ago totally agree.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Blackhawks fans get a free pass. They have a legitimate gripe with their previous owner. Chicago’s a pretty happening sports city, I tend to err on the side of the fan when it comes to them…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
They had that same owner for something like 40 years.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Our owner gave us a salary cap!
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
the same owner who blacked out every home game
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
seriously, Dollar Bill is widely considered, and not just in Chicago, but throughout professional sports, as quite possibly the worst owner of a pro team ever.
he was really, really, really bad. we bitch about the Ballard era, but he wasn’t nearly as bad as Bill Wirtz.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Wirtz never molested children.
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i didn’t say bad human being, just a bad owner…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I know he was bad. Why did everyone suddenly forgive him and love the team again just as soon as they got good instead of when he died and the team was still terrible?
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
After 40 years of bottom of the barrel ownership – no home games on TV, ever – how long of a lag is expected/permissible?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Dunno, if the hawks still sucked and made their run 5 years from now would this conversation be the same? Could they still use the ’Well we hated the previous owner so we decided not to care until they were about to win the cup" excuse still?
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
they were selling out before they won the cup. it was almost immediately after Wirtz’s death that fans started filling the United Center again, and that was two seasons ago.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
That still leaves the question, if they hated him so much why were they fans the previous 40 years?
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
maybe they liked their team….?
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
But not enough to show up?
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Fairweatherers exist in every fanbase. Because the Pens and Hawks (and Caps.. even if you guys don’t agree) have some really talented players and have surged from the basement to the top, they have more fairweatherers… but that shouldn’t take anything away from the real fans.
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
I guess what pisses me off about the fairweather/die-hard fan thing is that the implication is that somehow Chicago does not deserve to celebrate winning the Stanley Cup.
This is pretty dumb, in my opinion.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Im not saying they don’t deserve it but as a blues fan I also get to interact with obvious bandwagoners who just use the simple “wirtz was a jerk so I didn’t watch the team till just now” excuse as well. Lots of them.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Every successful franchise is going to have a bandwagon effect.
If the Leafs ever go on a deep post-season run the number of “long-time die-hard fans” will increase exponentially.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Unfortunately
we will not get to maintain some sort of elite ownership of the success of the team.
Chicago went through that exact process this past season, and I bet most of their die hard fans are fine with it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh how I dread this day.
I love the old time Hawks fans who’ve suffered through everything. And I feel such pity that they’ve been inundated with these bandwagoners who know nothing about their team.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Sep 2, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t agree with it either, but I still don’t like the whole idea of bandwagoners (even if I have a different definition of bandwagoners than everyone else)
"Hockey captures the essence of Canadian experience... hockey is the chance of life, and an affirmation that despite the deathly chill of winter we are alive." - Stephen Leacock.
he died in 2007, and the team started to get good. They happened at almost the exact same time.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone remember the last expansion draft back in 2000?
The Leafs lost Kevyn Adams when they decided to protect Khristich – one of those rare moves that all Leaf fans and the media agreed was folly.
There was a lot of hullabaloo over whether the team should protect Bryan Berard, who suffered that awful eye injury. Don’t remember whether or not they did…I also recall, and I could be really wrong here, that the Leafs left Wendel Clark unprotected but he was injured and/or UFA and/or retiring.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Man can’t believe Adams got away. He went on to have a 29 pt season!
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Adams went on to play 627 games to Khristich’s 201.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Rob Ramage to Minnesota in ’91 was a real bummer.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes. You are correct. Each and every game Adams played was brutal.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Did you change your name after your unremarkable NHL career Kevyn?
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How brutal is the name Kevyn?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I’d take 201 Adams games over 201 Kristich games.
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Seems a lot like “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”.
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I bought a game used Kristich stick at the ACC way back when for $30. It had a crack in the heel of the blade. Seemed fitting.
by Evening News Team on Sep 2, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Why did Gustavsson need to be protected?
He has played less than 50 games. Is there a special rule for goalies?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
Yes
10 games I think? Some one correct me if I’m wrong.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Heres a better question. Why NOT protect Jonus and try to unload 6m worth of giggy?
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
I don’t know if he’d be taken though, all depending on what other teams do. There could be some better (and younger) goalies available for a smaller cap hit.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
The real question is, do all 30 teams have to expose a goalie, and if not, then why not protect Giguere and have Gustavsson be auto-protected like BOZAK.
Of course, if you are correct, Gustavsson doesn’t qualify for auto-protection, but the only rule I read concerning 10 games for goalies was that one must be exposed <if you are protecting two others
If Giguere is garbage, then why not buy him out in June?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s a UFA in July for one.
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That’s a pretty damn good reason.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, so if he was worth keeping in June, he’s worth protecting now. Provided Gustavsson could be auto-protected, of course.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, so if he was worth keeping in June, he’s worth protecting now.
Wrong. He probably won’t be re-signed next June, and definitely not for $6M.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not talking about next June.
I’m saying that if two months ago he was not buyout-able, then why not protect him now.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Then you gotta replace him with another goalie of equal or greater value for less than 2 mil. 2 mil being the 2 mil you saved by buying him out.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
You’d save $4M per season and lots of goalies could be had for less than that.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Negative
2mil would be payed out this year, 2 mil next year.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
For a cap savings of $4M this year, to be spent on Niemi, had Burke chosen to go that route.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Niemi isn’t great. Pass.
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So we agree then. Giguere for one year at $6M is better than Giguere at a $2M buyout, plus Niemi at $2M.
Therefore, we both must be glad that Burke didn’t buy him out.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Buying him out would have given us a $4M cap hit for 2 years? instead of a $6M cap hit for 1 year while we aren’t contending?
Sorry man your argument has almost 0 merit.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say it has some merit, but you don’t need to agree.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
OK zero merit may be a bit harsh, but I’d have to say i disagree 110% if that’s even possible.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
So negative 10% merit?
You guys hate Giguere’s 1-year hit that badly?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't
I think we might be talking passed each other here.
Giggy has a high cap hit, but it’s only 1 year and it’s gone next year, and it lets Gustavsson develop one more year. So I’m okay with it.
I would much rather have $6M available next year though, rather than 4M because we bought him out.
I would not be heartbroken if some one plucked him for free, but he’s definitely not a junk goalie.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Cool. I wouldn’t be heart broken either, but if it was possible to protect both goalies and 9 forwards and 5 defencemen, I’d have liked that option.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Looked at in a vacuum, it’s a boat anchor of a contract.
In the context of ridding the team of Toskala and Blake it’s a-ok.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
also, he’s $2M cheaper, cap hit wise, than those two.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
him being unprotected in an expansion draft doesn’t automatically mean he’s gone.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I know, but it seems as if everyone here is arguing that leaving him exposed is done with the goal of seeing him walk for nothing.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
He was a salary dump originally. The leafs unloaded “the previous goalie” and blake for him. It was a salary dump by both sides. Hes not a bad goalie but sure as hell not a 6million dollar good goalie. Worth it to just wait out the contract for another year.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Exactly. Wait out the year, use him for 50 games and be happy.
No need to let him walk to Quebec for nothing.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
They want him to walk to quebec for nothing he currently has negative value based on his cap hit.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
If the Leafs were hamstrung by the cap, then I might agree, but Giguere provides positive value to this year’s team, contract and all.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs are ham-strung by the cap. They can’t take on any more salary, have little to no flex for player moves and bonuses may eat into next season’s cap space.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
I’d say Burke got exactly the guys he wanted, and wasn’t exactly penny-pinching to do so.
Hamstrung seems a bit harsh, when you look at other teams’ situations.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The Leafs’ cap situation has nothing to do with how other teams manager their payrolls.
Do the leafs have cap room? No.
Will the Leafs likely lose cap room next season due to bonuses? Yes.
Can the Leafs add pieces without waiving a player that might bring about an NHLPA challenge? Maybe.
I’d say that’s a good definition of hamstrung.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Well I’m just saying that Burke wasn’t forced to spend money on Armstrong – he chose to. And he certainly won’t be forced to dump players like Chicago did, so compared to other teams, Toronto is fine, cap-wise.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
We obviously have very different definitions of “fine”
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
My view is purely relative. Hence my mention of other teams.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea how an absolute like cap space can be considered in relative terms.
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
Losing cap room due to bonuses
we lost $1.4 mill this year, how much will we lose next year? Even if we push as high as Chicago did this past season it’d be $4 mill.
That’s significant, but that’s only if all our young guys top out their performances.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Topping out all their bonuses would mean one heckuva season for the team. Not a bad problem to have.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Bozak maxes out at $2,850,000
Schenn maxes out at $2,100,000
and Kadri maxes out at $850,000
beyond that nobody is getting over $300 K in bonus money… if those 3 contribute significantly our overage could be a problem. If all the other guys do also, then it’s a bigger problem… but I don’t foresee EVERY player hitting all their targets at once.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Topping out all their bonuses would mean one heckuva season for the team.
I’m not sure that’s the case. Schenn earned $2.1 million in bonuses last year, and he did what exactly?
Bitter Leaf Fan: because sometimes there's no option but to be bitter...
They're probably
games played, and point total bonuses.
He played 79 games had 5 goals and 17 points… that’s really not that bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don't know
I think the CBA outlines the things you can assign bonuses for, and I’m not sure how much else they can use.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Here we go
The aggregate of all signing bonuses attributable to any league year to be paid a group 1 player may not exceed 10% of the Player’s compensation for such league year. Games played bonuses attributable to a League Year shall be included in compensation for that league year at their full potential (i.e. assuming all such bonuses are earned) and shall be treated as Paragraph 1 Salary. A player may not contract for or receive any bonuses whatsoever other than a Signing Bonus, a games played bonus, and Exhibit 5 bonuses.
Exhibit 5 bonuses include
Forwards:
Ice Time – player must be in top 6 forwards on the club (min 42 games played). May contain aggregate of both total ice time and ice time per game for ELC deals.
Goals – 20 goal minimum
Assists – 35 assist minimum
Points – 60 point minimum
Points Per Game – 0.73 ppg minimum (min 42 gp)
plus/minus – among the top 3 forwards on the club (min 42 gp)
End of season NHL all-rookie team
NHL All-Star game appearance
NHL All-Star game MVP
Defensemen:
Ice Time – Must be among top 4 D on the club in either aggregate or total. (min 42 gp)
Goals – 10 goal min
Assists – 25 assist min
Points – 40 points min
PPG – 0.49 ppg (min 42 gp)
plus/minus – must be amongst top 3 on the club (min 42 gp)
Blocked Shots – must be among top 2 on the club (min 42 gp)
End of season NHL All-Rookie Team
NHL All-Star game
NHL All-Star game MVP
Goalies:
Mins – min 1800 mins played
GAA – GAA <= Median GAA for all NHL goalies who played 25 or more games (25 game min, 30 min minumum*)
SV% – SV% <= Median SV% for all NHL goalies who played 25 or more games (25 game min, 30 min minimum*)
Wins – 20 win minimum (Must be goalie of record, 30 min minimum*)
Shutouts – SO >= Median SO for all goalies who played 25 or more games.
End of season NHL All-Rookie team
NHL All-Star Game
NHL All-Star Game MVP.
Looking at those possibilities, if the Leafs have to pay out ALL their bonuses (which is amazingly unlikely), then the ELC guys are doing ALL of the heavy lifting and there’s something seriously wrong with the team.. they won’t have to pay out the max.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The only guys I'm worried about
handing major bonus money to are Bozak, Kadri, Gunnarsson, and Schenn… and I don’t see Kadri hitting most of his.
Bozak, Gunnarsson, and Schenn are the ones most likely to make theirs… and that total does come out to over $4 million, but that’s only if all 3 have great years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Sep 2, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Really hoping Burke has the balls to waive Finger, at least mid-season.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m holding out hope Burke will waive Finger to make bonus overage much less likely. I had been skeptical but Mirtle’s tweeted about it about 3 times now.
by The '67 Sound on Sep 2, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I could see this scenario
Finger starts with the year, and as the year progresses, depending on the injury cap relief and bonus progression of the ELCs, they send Finger down mid-season to try to hit the cap right on by the end of the year, or damn close to it.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn’t surprise me to see Finger drop to the Marlies when Kadri’s ready for the Leafs. Given that the number that I’ve seen floated around is 20ish games, you’d still get a reasonable amount of cap relief and it may mean Kadri doesn’t hit the bonuses he might if he played a full season.
Prefers pugnacity to truculence.
What’s the alternative? The more players they sign, the more likely they need a big salary in the AHL, and his is the most likely candidate.
All signs toward the end of last season pointed to Finger going down this year.
Blogging on hockey at Globe on Hockey
I hope you're right James.
Burkey’s playing fast and loose with the cap this year, a massive cap penalty would be a disaster for next year.
20 miles to Legoland!
pssst
this is all fake, he’s not really going anywhere…
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I almost forgot. Thanks for talking me back from the ledge ;-)
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I’d like to avoid a multimillion dollar cap hit for the 2011-2012 season.
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I never suggested anything about 2011. My whole point was that he could have been bought out in June and the $4M cap savings spent on Niemi or Ellis or anyone.
I just don’t see his 1-year contract as so bad that it needs to be gotten rid of.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
No one thinks his contract is so bad that we should burn down the future to get rid of it but if we lost him in an expansion draft it’s not the end of the world.
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Certainly not.
I was just curious about whether the rules allowed for Gustavsson to be auto-protected.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
you’re ignoring the fact that the Leafs would be paying Giguere millions for another year past when his deal was to expire.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Only $2M, which isn’t that bad.
But my real point is that no, he shouldn’t be bought out, and no he should have been protected, provided Gustavsson was allowed to be auto-protected.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
a $2M cap hit, when the team is already up against the cap, is really bad. Especially with some names that will be expecting larger contracts coming up.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If Giguere is garbage, then why not buy him out in June?
No one said he’s garbage, but do you want an average goalie with a $6M cap hit?
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying that if he could be protected, with Gustavsson auto-protected, then letting him go to Quebec for nothing implies that someone thinks he’s close to garbage.
Maybe you’d trade him for a 7th rounder, but I think he has much more value to this year’s team.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
letting him go to Quebec for nothing implies that someone thinks he’s close to garbage.
Here’s where we disagree.
He’s not garbage, but he’s performing nowhere close to his cap hit.
Is Tim Thomas garbage? No, but would the Bruins trade him for nothing to get rid of his cap hit? In a second.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you’d trade him
Full NMC. The question is lose him now or lose him next summer.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
Giguere might take a lower salary to stay in Toronto. He seems to like Burke and the city and Allaire. Guess we’ll see next year.
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I’d be okay with that depending on his performance and salary demands.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Can we all agree that an opening night Giguere shutout would be thoroughly palatable?
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Even I’ll cop to that.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Sep 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Only if it’s back-to-back again.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it wrong to think we deserve a run of 10 or 15 games of unsustainably awesome play?
Like that stretch where Elliott posted a .940 for a month.
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I feel like you might have just jinxed it.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, yeah, I agree. I wouldn’t be surprised (and I wouldn’t hate) if he takes a one year sweetheart deal so we can shelter Reimer and Rynnas for one more year. I’m just saying that – in response to STP’s “trade him for a 7th rounder,” we’re not trading him, unless it’s at the deadline on a new 2011+ contract.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
He has a full NMC and loves the Leafs, and one of the main reasons he waived it for Toronto was due to the Children’s hospital. I don’t see him going anywhere.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
i was thinking that, beyond the whole family issues for his NMC, Burke might have been able to convince Giguere to waive to come to TO for another chance at proving he’s a big money starter. He was behind Hiller in ANA, but in TO he’s back on top as the defacto #1 (for the time being at least)
This might give him a better shot at going into his last UFA year and cashing in.
This is my BOZAK!!!1
by blurr1974 on Sep 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Before this turned into “Burn the Sens fan for suggesting Giguere has value”, what I really wanted to know was could both goalies have been protected for the price of one.
The question was more about the details of the SBN rules, than whether or not Giguere should be dumped.
Can I rephrase my question to, “Does Anaheim have to expose Hiller, or are they allowed to expose an inexperienced goalie, or even no goalie?”
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:45 AM EDT reply actions
McElhinney should count for exposure. From my reading, you need to expose someone with at least 10 gp in the last year or 25 in the last two years.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
This was my understanding as well.
In the first thread, I put together a very rough list of the probable goalies other teams would expose. (some I wasn’t sure, like Nashville and Calgary)
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
McElhinney, of course. Forgot about him.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously though
if a team HAS to expose 1 goalie, what are Calgary and Nashville going to do? No way they expose Kipper or Rinne…
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
IRL? They would sign a veteran to a short term contract and expose him. In this? We’ll probably just let it slide.
If I'm losing an argument, I ask myself "What would a real journalist do?"
Then I cower behind: "You still don't get it. Deal with it." Thanks, James Wallace.
In real life, the June date of the draft would easily allow every team to come up with an exposable goalie.
But for the sake of this exercise, if a rule exists that forces all 30 teams to expose at least one goalie, and the rules dictate that any player (whether that really means skater or not, I dunno) with less than 50 NHL games under his belt is automatically protected, then what are teams like Calgary and Nashville supposed to do?
It’s not like Travis Hughes is asking for an exposed list. Well, other than the 10/25 rule that applies to the 2-3-7 formation. Oh, and the 40/70 rule that applies to skaters. I haven’t seen any mention of a minimum number of exposed goalies under the 1-5-9 formation.
But yeah, I imagine Nashville and Calgary caught a break, in that they may be the only teams to not have to expose a goalie, according to the rules as written.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess my point was, if a goalie must be exposed, then could the Leafs have exposed Scrivens in place of Giguere?
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 2, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
If it weren’t for the Games Played rule… I still probably would have let Giguere go.
I would not be sad to see his cap hit gone. We could have signed Ilya Freakin’ Kovalchuk with his cap hit gone.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
No
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yes
In real life you’d know an expansion draft was coming and you’d do that.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
/runs in with gasoline…
Oh, we aren’t doing this anymore?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
/puts pitchfork down
aww, hamburgers…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Sep 2, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
fire….hamburgers….I think we have a backup plan
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Sep 2, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a PPPBBBQ. The extra B is for BYOBB.
When I read the nickname Testicula, the first thing that popped into my head was a vampiristic scrotum that can only be killed with a silver cross driven through the vas deferens. - Certified Grabbo Lover
What’s that extra B for?
PPP ain't nothin to cuss with
The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 2, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
My predicted combined teams of Quebec and Winnipeg
G – Ondrej Pavelec ($1.150m)
G – Tim Thomas ($5.000m)
G – Erik Ersberg ($0.750m)
G – Rick DiPietro ($4.500m)
G – Martin Biron ($0.875m)
G – Brian Boucher ($0.925m)
G – Antti Niemi ($2.000m)
G – Ty Conklin ($1.300m)
G – Mike Smith ($2.200m)
D – Steve Montador ($1.550m)
D – Steve Staios ($2.700m)
D – Anton Babchuk ($1.400m)
D – Nick Boynton ($0.500m)
D – Adam Foote ($1.250m)
D – Rostislav Klesla ($2.975m)
D – Ruslan Salei ($1.100m)
D – Jason Strudwick ($0.725m)
D – Marek Zidlicky ($4.000m)
D – Roman Hamrlik ($5.500m)
D – Ryan Parent ($0.925m)
D – Bryce Salvador ($2.900m)
D – Milan Jurcina ($1.000m)
D – Matt Carkner ($0.700m)
D – Brett Lebda ($1.450m)
D – Shane O’Brien ($1.600m)
F – Ryan Carter ($0.625m)
F – Jason Blake ($4.000m)
F – Eric Boulton ($0.650m)
F – Greg Campbell ($1.100m)
F – Matt Ellis ($0.625m)
F – Ales Kotalik ($3.000m)
F – Tom Kostopoulos ($0.916m)
F – Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)
F – Daniel Winnik ($0.950m)
F – Ethan Moreau ($2.000m)
F – Krys Barch ($0.837m)
F – Fabian Brunnstrom ($0.675m)
F – Patrick Eaves ($0.750m)
F – Shawn Horcoff ($5.500m)
F – Cory Stillman ($3.533m)
F – Byron Bitz ($0.687m)
F – Justin Williams ($3.500m)
F – Kyle Brodziak ($1.150m)
F – Scott Gomez ($7.357m)
F – Sergei Kostitsyn ($0.550m)
F – Brian Rolston ($5.062m)
F – Tim Kennedy ($0.550m)
F – Chris Kelly ($2.125m)
F – Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m
F – Taylor Pyatt ($1.000m)
F – Andrew Ebbett ($0.500m)
F – Eric Tangradi ($0.845m)
F – Craig Adams ($0.550m)
F – Scott Nichol ($0.760m)
F – Matt D’Agostini ($0.550m)
F – Sean Bergenheim ($0.700m)
F – Colby Armstrong ($3.000m)
F – Rick Rypien ($0.550m)
F – Dave Steckel ($1.100m)
F – Boyd Gordon ($0.800m)
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Sep 7, 2010 8:13 AM EDT reply actions

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