Caps sign Alexander Semin to a one-year contract extension. Team source says it is for $6.7 million.
over 1 year ago
Chemmy
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Alex Semin must have the worst agent in pro sports. One year?
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Is he nuts?
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It could be a potential sign of concern over the new CBA (on the team’s part or the player’s part) or concern over a possible lock-out/strike. If he thinks he can get more money under the new CBA (or different contract terms), he may be interested in waiting.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
I guess....
What if he gets injured?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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My guess
Is he wants to go back to the KHL once he wins it here. This is total speculation and I present it as nothing more. Its just hte feeling i get with these repeated one year contracts and his (reported) non-assimilation to NA culture. Maybe he wants a cup than back to Europe?
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
NHL players that head to the KHL seem to be coming back the next year at a discount… slightly different for Russian players as it’s their home, but still.
Zherdev came back, Hudler, Nabokov tried, who’s next… Afinogenov?
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not. If Semin really likes Washington and wants to stay, but the Caps are concerned about signing a long-term commitment with the CBA expiring and some young players needing new contracts this summer and next….I can see how it makes sense. Sure, Semin is giving up term, but perhaps making more money in the short run
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
elephant shell
That’s been a big issue. A finger injury (or something similar) late in the NYR series pretty much made his entire dangling game ineffective against Pittsburgh.
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by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I heard that he was ineffective because it’s the playoffs and he magically disappears in the playoffs because in the playoffs his intangibles aren’t there and he’s enigmatic.
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Fucking enigmas, how do they work?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Clearly Semin slapped the sense out of his agent
by Ben Schnell on Jan 27, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe he’ll keep trying the Hossa route – hop to the “it” team each year for a shot at the cup.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe he was banking on posting a “career year” in his contract year in order to cash in big on a 12 year deal. That hasn’t happened so far this season for him so maybe he wanted another one year deal to try it again.
Truculligerestosterugnacity.
by lucc on Jan 27, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2011/12 Toronto Maple Leafs!
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Phil Kessel ($5.400m) / Nazem Kadri ($1.720m) / Marcel Mueller ($1.112m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.350m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($2.900m) / Clarke MacArthur ($3.000m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.200m) / Colby Armstrong ($3.000m)
Luca Caputi ($0.750m) / Christian Hanson ($0.650m) / Mike Brown ($0.650m)
/ Colton Orr ($1.000m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Francois Beauchemin ($3.800m)
Carl Gunnarsson ($0.880m) / Luke Schenn ($3.500m)
Mike Komisarek ($4.500m) / Keith Aulie ($0.733m)
Brett Lebda ($1.450m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.350m) /James Reimer ($0.750m)
BUYOUTS: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,279,166; BONUSES: $1,212,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $8,120,834
If Burke signs any UFAs for more than 1-2 yrs, $1.5MM… I just don’t know what to say.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
You forgot Ed Jovanovski for 6 years, $7M.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Jan 27, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
/nods sadly
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Richards 4 or 5-years, assuming he hits UFA.
If not… well then that’s a lot of cap space. Especially if the cap goes up by $2M+.
More than enough to re-sign Kaberle… just sayin’.
Did anyone think Semin wouldn’t re-sign in WSH though? I was pretty damn sure he was going to stay.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Based on his rapid progression thus far, yes, I’m hoping he can outplay Joey Crabb by next year.
But the specific assignments aren’t as important as the roster.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
He could be exactly what Kessel needs opposite him and he’s been gangbusters since a terrible start. What the hell, we’re not going anywhere next year. See how he does.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
The only number I care about next year is .910
As in, the team’s save percentage.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
This conversation reminds me a hell of a lot like last year.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
This years sv % is .906 including Reimer’s numbers
.893% without
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
If Reimer himself
can bring that number up to .910 by years end I will be impressed.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I have us at 900 with Reimer and 893 without.
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hmmm….I’m looking at NHL.com and averaging the 3.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Essentially, I’m weighing all 3 goalies sv % equally and ignoring # of games played
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
So yours is wrong
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jan 27, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks sunshine.
Don’t really care about right or wrong, here. I’d like to learn from it. What formula should I be using?
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
For team average you should weight it by shots.
If Goalie A sees 1000 shots and stopped 900 of them for an .900 SV% and Goalie B saw 5 shots and stopped 5 of them for a 1.000 SV% the average wouldn’t be .950.
Add up all the saves made by all the goalies and divide by all the shots faced by all the goalies.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Awesome, thanks for the info. Makes a lot more sense that way, and should’ve been obvious.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Just to clarify
You are wrong.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Thanks, because it certainly wasn’t clear the first time around.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
But you get it right?
You were not wright but wrong
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This actually confuses me more
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to rag on Kadri, but checking his marlie stats:
GP: 22 G: 8 A:15 PTS: 23
thats a 46 point pace if he’d played all 44 or so marlie games
not bad i suppose
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by Future_considerations on Jan 27, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
A season in the minors at a point-per-game. That’s cool.
by Leaf in Habland on Jan 27, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
over a point per game = hooray
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I know, I think BP is right about some massive contract to a UFA D man.
For God’s sake Burke, this roster is a long way from contending, nothing on the UFA market will change that, we actually have our first round pick, save your cap space for 2013 when it looks like there actually might be some young talent available.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
nothing on the UFA market
Where’s next year’s MacArthur…
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’ve got nothing against value plays like that, hence my 1-2 yr, $1.5MM limit.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
MacArthur is next years MacArthur
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Jan 27, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Burke puts Mueller on a line with Kessel next year. Down the road maybe, but not next year.
Burke will look to make a trade. “Shake up the roster for Wilson,” remember. It’ll be for a LW who’s been performing well, but is the “grit” on a line with a hot scorer, leaving us to question whether he’s the gear that makes the line work, or if he’s along for the ride. The deal will leave us without Beauchemin, who, I’m fairly certain, is the asset most in demand on this team, especially if we consider him as a plug, rather than a long-term piece in Burke’s eyes. Komisarek would also fill this position, but he’s un-fucking-movable.
So now we’ve got a huge hole at D for our minutes. Kaberle is walking, because Burke can’t give him an NTC after that whole debacle, and Kabby is terrified of a sign-and-trade. So we’ve got two holes at D. Fortunately, the UFA market has some D men on. Hamrlik is 36, so he’d be perfect for a 1 year. But he’ll get two. And he’ll look a step slower as he hits the 37 market. Pitkanen is 27, perfect for a 5-year 5m deal. Burke will talk about his work in Carolina, his assists, and his high minutes, glossing over the -11. We’ll bring Reimer up, because he played hot for a couple weeks, and when Gustavsson underperforms as a #1, Reimer will be forced to try a 45-start pace, which will stunt his development severely.
And there’s my allotted pessimism for the day.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Jan 27, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
This all seems highly probable.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
None of it is too crazy to believe though
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
we always say that there will be talent available through free agency. never happens. i didn’t think the Caps of all teams would find a way to keep Semin, and he’d hit the market for sure. but here we are.
Yeah, we got lucky with MacArthur, but then again we picked up Komisarek at thieves prices, and the only thing he knows how to hit is a woman.
face it, Burke’s accelerated rebuild idea is a bust. The only way he was going to make it work was by signing Semin and Richards through free agency. And with the Leafs luck, Richards will re-sign with the Stars before the UFA period opens.
Where is he going to get quality scoring forwards now? Who’s he going to trade? There are no assets left to deal, unless you wanna rob Peter to pay Paul.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
This made me think of a post. You’re not entirely right or wrong.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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The free agent market is vastly different in the last few years than in the years preceding it. I don’t think anyone would have predicted that almost every top free agent would get signed to long-term deals before hitting the market.
It’s true that the rebuild as it is hasn’t worked, but I’m not sure you can entirely blame the management for not foreseeing the lack of available free agents. They should have by now, however, adjusted their strategies….
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think we’re seeing that with Burke trading for Versteeg, and this year coming out as saying he doesn’t want draft picks but immediate help.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Again, robbing Peter to pay Paul. If you trade Versteeg (potential 20g) away for what? Another 20 goal scorer? Or do you package Versteeg with a prospect or two? Who do we have left? D’Amigo? God forbid, Kadri? How else are you going to trade for immediate help?
Burke’s on record as saying the Leafs will be buying at the deadline. I really hope this losing streak and the signing of Semin has sparked some neurons in that brain of his and made him reevaluate his strategy. I’ve seen no indications that that is the case.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I have no problem with Burke being a buyer, it all comes down to what he buys and what he spends
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
What he buys:
Can we agree that Burke needs to get goal scoring talent for the Leafs, and that’s what he’ll be looking to buy?
If you were Burke, what would you be willing to spend to get 1st line goal scorer at the trade deadline? What assets do you have? And what would the other guy be willing to take?
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
who knows, so far, all I can tell is that on the trade front, Burke is predictably unpredictable, who knows what he trades and for who
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, I’m asking you. The Leafs need a goal scorer – who should they trade to get that scoring talent?
Our prospect pool is up on hockeysfuture.com, our current roster is well known. Who goes? I’d like an educated guess please.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think Jared’s point is that this is HFBoards territory. We don’t know jack and it would be foolish to pretend otherwise.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
ding ding ding
I love to fantasize trades as much as the next, but anything, especially with someone as unpredictable as burke at the helm is wild speculation
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
You know how badly I can beat you, right?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
whatever snackpack…
shampoo is bettah!
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Jan 27, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Throw in a pack of dunk-a-roo’s and you got a deal.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
depends on the “goal scorer” you want
if we are looking at someone like James Neal or Jamie Benn, the starting point is Kadri and goes up from there, both would probably be too expensive to attain
If we are talking someone like Pavelski or Setoguchi it probably is beauchemin maybe with a mid round pick thrown in
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe a 2nd and Beauch for Pavelski who’s having not exactly a career year. I really hope not, it’s going to be a high 2nd this year.
And the Leafs would need another guy just like Pavelski in order to get more goals. (we’re short by about 40 per year) Burke would have to change his philosophy and sort of go to a ‘scoring by committee’ model. Maybe he’ll realize he won’t get elite talent to fill his top line and he finally will switch to a Phoenix model. Who knows?
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I would NOT trade Beauchemin AND our 2nd for Pavelski, for the record
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
whats with pavelski this year? the guy was awesome in the playoffs last year
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Only Clowe and Couture and Niemi are having good seasons in SJ.
Pavelski by all accounts is the future captain, I doubt he gets shipped off.
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by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
You’re not getting a 1st line scorer at the deadline. It ain’t happening. Especially since the Leafs are 27th.
The move comes in the offseason, when everyone has flexibility under the cap, and the opportunity exists to really revamp your team.
And with that said, I have no idea what the price would be, but I’m at least asking about Jordan Staal.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I’d bet on the Pens trading Malkin – who could bring in a huge return – before they trade Staal.
by Draglikepull on Jan 27, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
And with that said, I have no idea what the price would be, but I’m at least asking about Jordan Staal.
It’s certainly not a bad idea to float, but I can tell you right now that Staal is more or less untouchable. Draglikepull is absolutely right – if we’re trading a center, it’s going to be Malkin (though that’s also very, very unlikely).
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
ARE YOU F#$%ING KIDDING ME!!!! ADAMS!!! JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST YOU HAD 24 SQUARE FEET AND YOU MISSED IT ALL!! - OlenWhitaker
Went away to Leafland for a day. It was nice, even though they lost. And I became a Certified Grabbo Lover.
i’d go even further. i’d say the leafs aren’t getting any first liners through free agency or trade at any time. they’re simply too valuable to a team to give up. Staal and Malkin are a pipe dream.
remember last summer when Kaberle was tradeable? At a paltry 4 million? The Leafs got garbage offers. Trades for that quality of player require draft picks, and I don’t think the Leafs are selling those anymore.
i think there are two options for making the playoffs at this point for the Leafs, and both involve Burke jetissoning his stated strategies:
1. Scoring by committee, i.e. the Phoenix model. Burke picks up at least a pair of 20 goal, 60 point guys to give the Leafs three scoring lines, but dumps his Top 6-Bottom 6 idea.
Advantage: make the playoffs as early as next year
Disadvantage: you won’t win a Cup without elite talent
2. Tank Nation 2011-2013. Burke drops the accelerated rebuild idea, sells veterans for picks if possible to send the Leafs hurtling towards the 1st overall pick in the 2012 and 2013 draft. Leafs pick up the next Stamkos and Crosby
Advantage: might actually give the Leafs a cup within our lifetimes
Disadvantage: but within the 5-7 years, and after two more losing seasons.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Burke drops the accelerated rebuild idea
I’d like to see more proof that he ever put in an accelerated rebuild than pointing towards the Kessel deal.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I hear he hates first round draft picks, even has a phobia of them
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
did you hear that
from the Sedins or Pronger?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
or was it
Kesler?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby Ryan shot me an email.
L'eggo my Eggo.
All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity. ~Gordie Howe
by happiergilmore on Jan 27, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Burke has repeatedly said things like “I’m not interested in a 5 year rebuild” and “I’m impatient, I want to win now” and “I’m not interested in trading for draft picks”. He might not use the term “accelerated rebuild” himself, but it’s a reasonable conclusion to draw from his statements and moves. A team that’s going for a slow rebuild through the draft doesn’t trade three prospects for Versteeg, or two firsts for Kessel, or refuse to trade guys like Kaberle because the offers are primarily for draft picks and prospects (and Burke has said those are the kinds of offers he was getting for Kaberle this summer).
by Draglikepull on Jan 27, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Versteeg’s young and productive. He’s exactly what the other three prospects traded for him weren’t.
Kessel is still a young player. A sure thing was traded in return for lottery tickets. It’s still not a pure win-now move.
Kaberle staying is definitely a win-now move but it also provides time for prospects to develop properly the way people have always agitated for the Leafs to develop them: in junior and in the AHL.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
we get it
You don’t like the kessel deal. Many of us would take it back if we could too.
Nobody expected Komisarek to suck this bad.
Nobody expected Macarthur to be t his good. You could argue it’s a wash.
Most of the discussion here at PPP revolves around how we can work with the present situation: What decisions would be best given the fact we have no draft pick next year, how to improve our cap situation where possible, how to stay out of the lottery so the Bruins don’t get another top pick.
We don’t “always say that there will be talent available through free agency”. I don’t know where you got that idea. However, you seem to be saying “there will always be talent available through the draft”. There have been a number of people who have made comments and fanshots about how this is not necessarily true. Even the first round of a draft is a bit of a crapshoot. But when your team does suck, it’s nice to have a draft pick
now YOU need to face this: WE DONT HAVE A 1ST ROUND PICK NEXT YEAR.
Therefore, all we have to look forward to is free agency and/or trades. Semin was one of the biggest (if not the biggest) UFAs. Whether or not you think Burke would’ve made a play for him is irrelevant; it’s out of the question now.
We are not all fans of Burke’s accelerated rebuild. The Kessel deal did more to slow down the rebuild than we originally expected, but we did get the 5th overall pick in 2006, a pick who is far more developed than seguin, knight, or whoever the bruins pick next year.
I seriously doubt Burke was banking on Richards and Semin as the only way to improve the team.
And with the Leafs luck, Richards will re-sign with the Stars before the UFA period opens.
And with the Leafs luck, our 2012 first round pick chokes on a pencil and becomes the next episode of “1000 ways to die” on Spike
/end rant
elephant shell
now YOU need to face this: WE DONT HAVE A 1ST ROUND PICK NEXT YEAR.
At the risk of you throttling me, a slight correction: we DO have a 1st round pick next year. We DON’T have one this year.
Truculligerestosterugnacity.
rant = deflated haha
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 28, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Oh man
we were almost rantfree today! so close.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Why not? Let it happen, let all those young guys just play it out, Long Island/Oilers style. Draft high in 2012, and look forward to the 12-13
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Long Island has been drafting high for the better part of a decade – where’s the success?
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 29, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Can I get this lineup with Kaberle in place of Komisarek, and literally anybody in place of Lebda? Kthxbai
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I’d also like a naked Megan Fox on my desk which I think is just about as likely.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Kaberle re-signing is more likely than a naked Megan Fox on your desk. That being said, I don’t really know you, you could be a real stud with the Hollywood ladies.
TOMAS KABERLE: LEAF FOR LIFE
It’s the getting rid of Komi and Lebda contracts I consider impossible.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Lebda is an easy solution. Give him the Finger.
Cost the Leafs $1.45M if they need the space, and they already sent Finger down which cost them $7M.
Komi’s contract is a different beast entirely…
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I’m just terrified how Burke’s going to blow all this cap space burning a proverbial hole in his wallet. I just hope he sticks to 1 or 2 yr deals.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Richards or bust.
And by bust, I mean every UFA contract that we sign this summer.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I’d want some heavy research on aging curves of similar players (size/production wise) before investing in a massive deal for an over 30 guy like Richards. I’m expecting a 5-6 year deal that will be a boat anchor in the latter half of it.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
Some GMs have to know full-well what they’re getting into when they sign long-term high cap hit deals. They take the last few years knowing it’ll be a bad contract to get the first years where it is “good” (or at least market value at the time being).
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm..I think long deals are a bit too recent to get a decent sample size from that. Good idea, though.
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by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think you need deal info though. I think what he’s saying is just looking at how similar players production progresses from age 30-38 (or how ever old Richards is now). Knowing when and what the expected drop-off is can help guide your decision making around a contract (amount but also term).
TOMAS KABERLE: LEAF FOR LIFE
Yeah, exactly. I’m not interested in contract terms, just how moderately sized, pass-first, defensively-mediocre, slightly less than PPG career players perform in their 30s.
Off the top of my head I’d guess “A lot worse than they did from ages 25-30”.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, whoops. There’s an article at BtN looking at that (or at least for superstar players). Look through the archives.
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by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
So you mean like
Ron Francis? or Bryan Trottier? they seem to tail off after 32.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
there aren't a lot of players
in that mold.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Megan Fox
It could happen…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Where is this image from again?
I’ve seen it before, but tineye.com returns nothing.
Be a Positive Pete not a Negative Nancy!
by theninjagreg on Jan 27, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
Be a Positive Pete not a Negative Nancy!
by theninjagreg on Jan 27, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
10 days?
@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Confirmed one year, $6.7 million for Semin. Gets a $600000 raise over this season’s salary. Both sides started negotiating 10 days ago
That’s not a huge negotiating window, and he’s been injured the whole time. Interesting.
20 miles to Legoland!
Excellent. Now I won’t have to read anymore misguided comments on why the Leafs should try to sign this floater.
"I'd walk into the Leafs dressing room to get ready for the day and Harold would be there in his boxer shorts shaving. King Clancy would drop by a little later, play the fool, and then head off to the racetrack." John Brophy
by Mike Pelyk's Hairdo on Jan 27, 2011 11:05 AM EST reply actions
I hate when the Leafs sign good players too.
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Been pretty good since Bruce Willis got canned hasn’t he?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
4-4-8 in 8 (NJD 6-1-1 over that stretch).
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t you get the memo? He had a few bad months on a team whose wheels fell off: he’s “enigmatic” and a “floater”.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Damnit, I thought Lou signed Kovalchuk, not Kovalev…
In Lou We Trust/Twitter
If you were really good, you'd get the mouse to stay off both paths
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jan 27, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
6-5-11 in 16 games, 8-10-15 in 32 games before that.
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1+ good month so far. We'll see how 14 more years go.
(full disclosure: I was all aboard this Kovalchuk train last summer)
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
the player is good
the coach is better… and the coach isn’t there for 14 more years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
And those two bad months pale in comparison to his career.
There’s a lot of time before the book is written on that contract for sure.
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What if he had two bad playoff series?
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A lot longer than it will take to figure out how bad (good?) the Kessel deal ends up being.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
I’m sure when he’s producing 30 goals for $6.667 million in 4 or 5 years people will think he’s a steal… then 4 or 5 years after that when he’s producing 20ish goals for over $6 million and “veteran leadership” he’ll still be worth it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
How bout the 4 or 5 years after that though?
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 28, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Caps fans are acting as if this guy is some nobody. He’s 10th in goals scored since 06-07 and because of the Montreal series last year he “disappears in the playoffs”.
They’re good guys over there but really come off as feeling entitled to the Cup.
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8 in 7, 14 in 14, and 2 in 7. Yeah, he totally disappears in the playoffs. It’s a shame he got stuck with that bizzare misnomer.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Jan 27, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
People over there are seriously commenting that $6.5M should buy you a player guaranteed to win the Conn Smythe.
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So Ovechkin is overpaid? Cool.
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Boatanchor of a contract. That Backstrom kid too.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t need four hundred people yelling at me. Was going to ask if Semin is so bad why does Ovechkin only have one more goal despite playing 12 more games.
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I think you should post it and run.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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If only someone had looked at how streaky Semin is.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Jan 27, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Wait, they’re complaining about this contract? Sheesh.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
He’s unfortunately become the scapegoat for the playoff losses for Caps fans (and pretty much anyone else), along with Green and the Caps’ porous D, inability to play playoff hockey, too much east-west, etc. It’s crap, mostly, but I’m honestly a little scared of posting pro-Semin all the time. Each time you have to defend yourself, and it’s tiring, especially against a community that’s like 90% lawyers.
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by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Times is hard.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Wow. And people say Leafs fans don’t appreciate skill guys.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Hey, you’re not completely vindicated. At least, not until I convince you that Green is f’real.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
t’hanks
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by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
It’s all relative. Great player? Yes. Want him? Absolutely. Norris candidate? Unconvinced.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that last part troubles me. I’ll convince you guys eventually.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
He’s absolutely f’real. He’s probably the second or third best forward on your team.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Jan 27, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He got robbed by Pavelec last night, by the way. Last minute of the 3rd. In case you missed it. :P
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Best part
Was one guy saying “bottom line, 1 playoff series win in 4 tries Semin ineffective in 2 of them”. Right, because this isn’t a team sport or anything
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven
While I’m in the minority of Caps fan who actually likes Semin and wanted to keep him. I’ve been saying this alot this year. We have seen the future of the Washington Capitals without Alex Semin and it is very ugly. Low scoring losses. Methinks they need him more than people want to admit. And now people are beginning to admit they miss him.
His productivity had admittedly gone down since a series of injuries in late November.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Semin was ranked in the top 25 by NHL Central Scouting. Just saying.
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Jan 28, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
It’s ok, there’s plenty of young elite talent hitting the UFA market.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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They’re all enigmas and streaky though, do not want.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Tried Hemsky?
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by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I love how “enigma” has wormed its way into hockey lingo. Funny word.
Like sacrificial virgins, we all burn in different ways. You are a fast explosion and I am the embers.
by TheBurnward on Jan 27, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
July 1 is our draft...
and the draft class just got a whole lot weaker.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
If this is the new reality – ie more and more players not making it to UFA – then Burke needs to get the green light from MLSE to either abort the idea of rebuilding through free agency (ie switch gears to sitting back and waiting for draft picks to potentially work out) or to use MLSE’s considerable financial heft to bury contracts in the minors, both for our existing problems (komi, lebda, phaneuf even) and to facilitate trades that get us elite talent but force us to take bad contracts in return.
TOMAS KABERLE: LEAF FOR LIFE
Phaneuf? Come on. The rest I agree, especially your sig.
by Leaf in Habland on Jan 27, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
the former is more likely than the latter.
the Leafs can get away with burying Finger this year. They can get away with burying Lebda for a year.
They definetely won’t get away with burying Komisarek for three years, especially at 5 mil. The NHL will fine them draft picks retroactively for Wilson’s $600 reward this year, or find some other excuse to punish the Leafs.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be interested in how you think they could do that though. Burying contracts in the minors is written into the CBA.
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by PPP on Jan 27, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Rangers buried Redden, the Leafs could bury Komi.
But they won’t.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
But wouldn’t the NHLPA complain if we bury multiple players we signed to multi-million dollar deals. We got away with Finger because it could be argued there are better players in the current line-up, but Lebda, Finger & Komisarek, that’s not going to go down to well with them (the NHLPA & NHL).
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
We won’t know unless we try, though one could probably make the argument that since Komisarek went unclaimed on the way down we’re not burying him unfairly.
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Sending him down right now, would be a waste. I meant more along the lines of starting off next season with him in the AHL.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
remember when the Leafs got fined draft picks? Ostensibly, it was for the Frogren deal, but everyone who’s not stupid knows is was because the Leafs absorbed salary in exchange for picks in an entirely different deal. The Frogren thing was just an excuse that the league dredged up because they couldn’t punish the Leafs for the salary dumps they were taking, which were CBA-kosher.
And so it would be if the Leafs tried to abuse their ability to bury contracts in the minors a bit too much.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Is your tinfoil hat warm?
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the thing is, the Leafs DID break a rule and the league turned a blind eye (either on purpose or by incompetence) and then the league chose to burn them later on something else
this is an entirely different animal with a set precedent
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Weren’t the Leafs fighting a legal battle with the NHL about the Frogren deal, and only once that wrapped up (and the lost I presume) did the fine of a 4th round pick come up.
Also, wasn’t it discussed that the Ollie trade was pretty much to make up for the pick they would be losing for Frogren?
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, the Leafs did break a rule. They gave Frogren a signing bonus that he used to buy himself out of his contract. The shitty thing was that they used him knowing that the move was being looked at and we didn’t get the real story via the media.
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Redden is pretty clearly one of NYR’s best 7 D-men. This argument is a red herring.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Though his numbers have going downwards since he signed that contract (only 2 years, but the value of the contract was not being met)
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not one of their Top 4 probably, and he’s clearly their most overpaid, but there’s no way he wouldn’t crack their NHL roster if salaries were ignored.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
If we’re ignoring salaries, I would be more inclined to slot him in @ the #7 spot, since the Rangers are seem to want young top 6 D>
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Like many, I raised an eyebrow when I read that the deal was for one year
But, there are enough possible reasons for Semin to only want one year that it doesn’t floor me. Maybe Semin’s thinking about playing the KHL, maybe he’s thinking (and gambling) about the next CBA, maybe he’s just hoping to win a Cup this year and bail, plus, then there are literally hundreds of personal reasons that we can’t even begin to speculate on.
Also, in an odd turn of the tables, the dollar figure seems about right as well. Usually, players opt for term at a reduced rate, knowing that they have a secure paycheque. This time, it seems that – while this isn’t a huge bargain – the reduced term would have worked against Semin.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
Re: our hopes of acquiring him
I can’t say I ever expected Burke to sign this guy, but it does pick away at the already slim chances that this team is going to improve by any significant margin from this season to next. I mean, strange things happen; leaving a young team together can do wonders, changing the coach might help, and maybe Reimer comes in next year and just plays lights-out.
But all that said, even though this is a young team, I think that several key members of the club have simply hit their ceilings early, and aren’t likely to change/improve their game so substantially that we’ll see a big rise in the standings. Gustavsson, Phaneuf, Kessel, and Versteeg in particular, but I even wonder how much extra production we can reasonably hope to get the MGK line.
Moreover, there are a number of key components that are just aging, and it’s looking ugly; Komisarek stands out, but Kaberle has probably seen his best years (even if we do re-sign him, which I’d quite like to see), Armstrong, and even Orr (who ages faster than most, since he’s a fighter).
So whose individual improvements are going to push this team forward? Schenn, Reimer, Bozak, Gunnarsson, and maybe, maybe Kadri?
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
I should add that I’m perfectly happy with the production of the MGK line – obviously – but I doubt that next year their individual point totals will make a big jump.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
I don’t think there is anyway you can say that Phaneuf Kessel and Versteeg have all hit their ceilings, way too early to tell.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Alternately
The only thing Phaneuf has hit lately is the end boards.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
also Dana Tyrell and Tuomo Ruutu
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Phaneuf’s numbers have been in steady decline for three years now.
Kessel’s appear to be headed for the same thing.
Versteeg looks to have more or less stagnated, though his numbers may rise a little this year with the extra PP time he’s been seeing.
It’s not to say that they’ll never have another season where they put up more points – heck, maybe we pick up some great C, and, say, Kessel’s numbers look vastly improved – but that won’t necessarily be because he’s an improved player, either. He’ll jut have someone to play with. We know Kessel will never be a Sundin. I really don’t think it’s early to say that he’ll he’s not going to put a team on his back.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
Versteeg is only in his 3rd NHL season, and he’s had pretty consistent production up to this point. He’s never scored less than 20 goals in a season. I think odds are pretty good that his best years are still ahead of him.
Kessel has worse numbers than he did with Boston because he’s playing with considerably worse linemates. Savard/Lucic vs Bozak/Crabb? It’s not even comparable.
Phaneuf is the one who scares me.
by Draglikepull on Jan 27, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Versteeg is turning 25 this season, which, on average, is the peak year for production.
As for Kessel, it’s as I say; his numbers would easily go up with better linemates, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be a radically different player than he is right now.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
This is basically worst case scenario for Kessel, and he’s on pace to match his career high of 36. That’s encouraging.
If we can find/develop someone who’s even 80% of the offensive threat he is, he’s going to blow past 40.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
He's on pace for 31 right now. 1 More than last year, and fewer points overall.
You think he’s that much better than his second year in Boston? What’s can point out to me as a tangible improvement between this year and that one?
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
from the way Boston fans talked about him,he is much better defensivly
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Well, as substantiating arguments go, you’ll understand why I’d find that somewhat unreliable.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
wait, you mean current Leaf fans think he is lazy and never back checks ?
madness
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
You know, I never quite got that. I’ve always seen the guy backchecking.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
He backchecks OK, I think the issue is more he doesn’t consistently push the puck in a positive direction. That’s a big part of why he has such a horrific +/- (that and his weak linemates, to be sure). When MGK are on the ice, they are consistently getting it out of our end and pinning the other team deep. Kessel doesn’t excel at gaining possession and getting it out, and he doesn’t excel at sustained pressure. He excels at taking a pass from someone else and burying it.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Kessel is pretty good at breaking the zone himself, nothing spectacular, but yes, his forcheck leaves something to be desired
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
If he gets the puck. But he’s not going to gain possession/force turnovers that often.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
nope, he isnt big/strong enough to take the puck from NHL sized men with force all that often
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather he work on his playmaking and core strength to prevent being knocked of the puck, I’d rather not have our elite scorer trying to become a power forward and get hurt
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
He’s got to be able to protect the puck better both when he’s carrying, but also when he’s trying to recover pucks. I don’t need to see him bashing people into the glass behind the opposition’s net, but I expect some kind of – you’ll forgive the use of an intangible here – tenacity.
In a perfect world, he’s Martin St. Louis.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
It’s not a knock on him, he’s great at what he does, but he is what he is, if you know what I mean.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think we're on the same page.
He’s a gun on wheels, but I don’t really expect many other aspects of his game to develop in the next couple years.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
Exactly. He can get better at what he is (particularly with better linemates) but he’ll never becoming something other than a better version of what he is right now.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Never say never. Yzerman went from a pure goalscorer to one of the best defensive forwards in the league, because Stan Bowman asked him to.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Kessel isn’t remotely in the same league as Yzerman in terms of overall hockey talent.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sigh. I didn’t realize it was necessary but as Jared said, I’m also not endorsing the idea that Kessel is as good as Yzerman. Only saying that there was a precedent.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
And I’m rejecting the precedent because I think truly elite (i.e. top 5 in the game) hockey players can more readily develop other aspects of their game.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Like Crosby, or maybe even Ovie,
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
You can quantify the precedent but that doesn’t change the fact that it happened. If you want to think that no one is ever going to be anything but what they are now except for the top 5 truly elite, then go ahead.
Sure, Kessel is not as talented as Yzerman. I still like to think players can improve and change with time, patience and effort.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Anything’s possible. I’m betting against it, that’s all.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
im sure they said the same thing about steve yzerman (this no way endorses that I think Kessel is as good as Yzerman)
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
It’s funny that you both came up with Stevie Y. I still think it’s too flawed a comparison.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
At a high level, I think the point is that guys can improve aspects of their game that will make them an overall better player.
Like Luke Schenn improving his shot I think Kessel can improve his one-timer for example.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
See, I kind of doubt that. Is his shot going to get harder? Will he become much faster on his feet? Meh.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
he will hopefully, become smarter, fitter, stronger and more experienced, Yzerman is a bit of a flawed comparison, but it does show that it isnt out of this world to think that a pure offensive player can develope a nack for the defensive side of the game, another example is datskyuk. he was pure offense until he came to the NHL and was learned in the ways of 2 way play
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think brett Hull is a good comparison for Kessel, I dont ever expect him to become a selke nominee but If his offensive game as a whole improves, getting better at finding holes in coverage, improved one timer, harder to knock off the puck, I think he’ll end up being a very valuable asset to any team.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Kessel
actually has one of the harder slap shots on the team already… he just doesn’t use it often.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Mostly because he’s being covered so he’s got to release a shot as soon as he can. Plus I believe his wrist shot is more accurate.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Regarding Kessel:
He’s a gun on wheels, but I don’t really expect many other aspects of his game to develop in the next couple years.
My take on this quote by JP and I see a viewpoint often shared by many Leafs fans is that what they are really saying is as good as he is, he’ll never be like Gretzky, Crosby, Lemieux or any other superstar they wish we had.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Well, yeah comparing Kessel to generational talents like the ones you mentioned are off-base. Kessel is what he is, we knew what we’re getting when we acquired him.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
but pretending he has no chance to develop other aspects of his game out of hand is also silly
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
This is very true. However, I don’t think we’ll see as big of a transformation as Stevie Y exhibited, it’s all about tapering expectations.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that many fans knew what kind of player Kessel is but I’m not sure others do hence their disdain towards him. In any case I’m ok with having him. Kessel is like us having a top 5 pick in a great draft year in 2006… I would trade that for Seguin and Knight so basically were short this years 1st so far and looking at the players…meh, not impressed.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
I think it’s mainly the price paid to get him, is what irks many people (present company excluded).
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
the more I think about it, the more I think about how eager Chiarelli must have been to get off the phone after Burke offered two firsts and a second
“uhh… we’ll have to think about it…”
hangs up phone and laughs
elephant shell
Don’t forget Nashville was in play as well.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
if Nashville hadn't been in play
we could have just offer sheeted him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
and given up less
to get him
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, Boston would’ve matched and sat him on LTIR. Then with a pro-rated contract would’ve been able to play him for that season.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
they can't
just pop players on to LTIR without an injury.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
He was injured at the time.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I suppose he was… forgot about his shoulder.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
I still don't see them
giving him the money we gave him.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
No, I agree with you, just being a stickler.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
They couldn’t because they were constrained by the cap. They needed someone to either offer-sheet him or trade for him.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Shoulder surgery. Remember we didn’t play him till November.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
LTIR
doesn’t get you out from under a contract btw. It only frees up the space ON that deal … they can’t sign players to contracts that exceed the cap if they already exceed it.
Thing is… they dealt with Kessel before Wheeler… so if they sign Phil, they can’t sign Wheeler.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why I said they were constrained by the cap.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
right
but I just said the Leafs could have offer sheeted him and you said they’d match… how can they do that if they’re constrained by the cap as you also just said?
you’re contradicting yourself.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
He contains multitudes.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
I believe it was discussed during the transaction that if he did get offer-sheeted they would match. Hence, Burke was forced to trade for him. I believe even Burke acknowledged this.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see how they could
have matched… considering they signed Wheeler to a $2.825 million deal, and they had a cap hit total of $55,494,851, and only $1,305,149 in cap space.
The math doesn’t work.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
This will be something I’ll have to dig through the CBA to find out, but I think (this is just a hypothesis) that if a team offer-sheets an injured player, you can match, then place him on IR. Again, no evidence to support this hypothesis, I’ll have to research it once I’m out of class.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
LTIR
doesn’t get you out from under the cap hit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
more kessel trade convo makes we want to use this.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
It does if he’s out for a long enough time. I believe the argument was they would place him on IR, then make a move to make cap space.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
But if you’re over the cap, placing a player on LTIR will let you bring on a replacement even if the LTIR would put the team over the Cap limit. In other words, the LTIR cap rules is only in play if a team goes over the limit in calling a replacement for a guy on LTIR.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
They’d match by dumping salary elsewhere. If Boston really wanted to keep hm they would’ve found a way. Teams can do more than one thing at a time you know. Don’t be so obtuse.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 28, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
the goal for Brian Burke is to find players who excel at gaining and maintaining possession of the puck, specifically in the offensive zone.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
do you think Dustin penner is available before next season? Its hard to see Burke calling up the Oilers and asking about him in a trade though after refusing to match the RFA offer in the first place… but I think he could be a good fit in Toronto.
feel free to rip me to shreads if im way off on this one
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
penner would be nice, but the oilers would want picks and prospects because of their rebuild and probably not be interested at all in taking back salary
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that would likely be a “mortgaging the future” move. Penner will be 29 next year, ie. on the downside of his career. Pass.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
yah, the leafs and oilers don’t make good trading partners since both want the same things and are trying to clense themselves of the same things
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I think the only difference here is that we’re long on defensive prospects (Aulie, Gunnarsson, Blacker, Mikus, Holzer) to their offensive ones.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
and goaltending.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
other than Hall, MPS and Eberle, what oiler prospects are there really to pine over? Maybe the kid they get this year, but we dont know who that is
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly, their rebuild only really started last year.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
not too shabby of numbers, good size, im interested
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
They also have
Anton Lander… one of Sweden’s leading scorers from the WJC this past x-mas.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
and
Linus Omark could be pretty good.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but the only offensive prospect i can see them moving is Omark, of which im interested in, but not THAT interested in
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
again
I’ll mention Lander here.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
ok, so it seems to me like we’ve kind of established that we dont want to move any more future assets to obtain anyone over the age of say, 27, depending on who we’re talking about of course…. and we also dont think anything we have is worth enough to obtain high end young players/prospects or a 1st round pick.
We are in no mans land…it really seems like this team has no choice except to pray you get a steal in free agency and wait for all our prospects to develop
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
pretty much, bring in cheap young players with possible upside, try to unload some of your boat anchors, develope your youth, sign elite talent if you can
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
the goaltending situation is going to have me nervous all summer…. I really hope that someone makes the decision easy for Burke
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
We are in no mans land…it really seems like this team has no choice except to pray you get a steal in free agency and wait for all our prospects to develop
Yep, I agree. Except we can’t get anyone worthwhile through free agency, it seems, and our prospects aren’t that good.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Except we can’t get anyone worthwhile through free agency, it seems,
MacArthur has a sad.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Mind you we also have had a few busts in FA.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Of course
just providing some positivity with a recent counter-example.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
our prospects aren’t that good
We don’t know that.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
But they’re not doing flashy things on TSN’s top ten!
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Kadri shootout goal says WUTTTTTTTTT
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jan 27, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
do you think they are going to be targeting the basement again next year? I think Tambellini is going to want to see some improvment next year and I think they need help on the blueline…. Beauch could be a starting point… who knows how Burkie would feel about that though
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
then again i guess thats even more of a reason for them to keep penner
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think it would be advantageous for them to be in the basement next year. They only really have 3 forwards with good upside, they still need plenty of D and goaltending.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
the oilers next year trajectory will depend on where they finish this year (and who they get) what contracts they can unload between now and then and how well the kids perform next season out of the game
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
would Penner be one of those contracts they want to unload? how about Hemsky?
just curious still, i dont really think the oilers are ideal as a trading parter either
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Penner is still young enough to be effective as a vet when the kids are older, Hemsky is a walking bag of broken glass, but he is damned good at hockey
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
such a shame about Hemsky… dude is awesome.
I probably missed this convo somewhere along the way today but with Semin signed does Washington have to make room for enxt season? are there potential players on their roster to pick? Eric Fehr?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jan 27, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Fehr, Alzner and Varlamov are the only notable RFAs
Knuble and Laich the only notable UFAs. They have 17 guys under contract and will probably have around 15M to play with, so they can afford to re-sign them if they want.
Hannan’s 4.5 comes off and they get about 5M in cash back from Nylander.
They still have a bunch of prospects to plug in if they need to.
Caps are set up for a while.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Next year is tough. Carlson is going to get a big raise and Green a smaller one.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
Behindthenet quick link to QoC/QoT/Corsi/PDO/Zonestarts
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Although since Nylander was on loan to a minor league team and now injured, his salary does not count against the Caps salary cap. So his $4M in salary is not in play for next year’s cap planning.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Or gaining possession. To me, that’s the other half of the problem.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
He does neither above average
Put get him the puck on his stick in a good scoring area, and he’s dangerous
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
My mistake, I thought he was still on pace for 35-36.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
he was, until this recent 4 game slump
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Kessel’s fine. We’ve forgotten that he’s still drawing top defensive assignments playing with Crabb and Bozak which has also allowed the Grabovski line to flourish.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
pretty much, and when he gets hot again (and he will, as is his nature) he will probably be on track for 35+ again, I’m not worried about Kessel, just about getting someone to play with him
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. His pace of 36 goals included a slump which was offset by a hot streak. This slump will likely be offset by another hot streak which will hopefully bring him back to 35+.
Leaf fan in Edmonton.
Having him finish the year with 35+ goals would be a win in my book.
But long term, he needs to be better than that.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think a lot of people here don’t realize just how rare a consistent 35 goals is in this league. Too many Mogilny/Selanne childhoods.
The Flying V was offside every time.
At the beginning of this year we were talking about Kessel being a consistent 50 goal scorer. Clearly expectations have had to be scaled back since. I like him but I’m not going to be an apologist either. If he never manages to hit 40 at all in the rest of his time here, would you still be satisfied?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 28, 2011 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
I sort of agree, although I noticed that once sequence in the Tampa game when they put their shut-down line out against Grabovski.
Having two dangerous scoring lines will ultimately benefit both. Kessel is doing OK but clearly needs more help.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hrm.
Well, Kessel is 13th in QoC on the team. So he’s not getting super-tough or super-easy minutes.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
So the numbers don’t seem to be behind your ‘top defensive assignments’ theory.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
Actually, yes that is. It means he’s not matched up against a team’s top scoring line, it means he gets the defensive people who shut down other top scoring lines but don’t put up a ton of points: Bergeron, Staal, Callahan, etc…
Certified Grabbo Lover
As a side note,
It had been a while since I looked at those QoC numbers, and was surprised to see Komisarek’s name so high on our list.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
He’d have a high QoC playing against goal scorers. He has a low QoC because the people he plays against are defensive specialists who can’t score.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
So QoC would work good for measuring what type of competiton “defensive players” are facing, i.e. high scorers, or not?
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Jan 27, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
It works better that way.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
1967ers noted this before but one of the drawbacks of QoC is that guys that play the shut down roles don’t score much and so when they do get scored on they can’t make up for it.
If you go through the H2H Time On Ice links in the recaps you’ll see that the opposition’s best defencemen and forwards will play against Kessel the most.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Like Mike f’in Green. (Carlzner took MacArthur the other day)
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
Behindthenet quick link to QoC/QoT/Corsi/PDO/Zonestarts
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Jan 27, 2011 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
This is why
Corsi QoC is a better stat in my mind… a “shutdown” D man isn’t punished for not scoring as long as the puck is heading in the right direction and he has more possession.
Kessel’s Corsi numbers are freaking horrible this year for the record.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Another thing lost in the discussion
“How is this team going to be better next year?” was basically the question I was pondering. Three years from now is so far into the future that a flux capacitor would be at the top of your ‘to do’ list before we even started the conversation.
Now, to a certain degree, it’s a loaded question, because with a bit of puck luck, any number of players could have career years, but who do we expect (from the current squad) to have bigger years than this one?
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
I’d expect more from Bozak, Kessel, Schenn, Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Kadri. I’d expect less from MGK, Kaberle. So basically a wash.
The biggest potential improvement is from goaltending. When have I heard that before? Oh yeah, every year.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
So true.
Reim time I feel like it’s only a matter of time before you let me down.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, who was saying ealier that they expect Gus to collapse, leaving Reimer to play 42 games and burn out? It gave me chills.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
plugs ears
lalalala i can’t hear you lalalalala
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Collapse mentally? Or physically? He should be over his heart problems after that surgery last year.
Also there’s no way that the team would just leave Reimer out there for 42 games. They’d bring Kolzig out of retirement sooner than that.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Basically every year since Raycroft.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure
why we expect less from a line made up of 24-25-26 year old forwards.
Particularly when the 25 year old that’s leading the line in scoring could shoot the puck more. The 24 year old that’s 2nd on the line in goals could also shoot the puck more…
Really the only one that I think has hit his full potential so far is Grabovski… and I think his numbers improve if they other two do also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Worst case for MGK is they are a decent 2nd line. Kadri should improve enough to be an upgrade on Boyce/Brent. Bozak will get slightly better, at least. It’s really getting that Kulemin-esque winger for Kessel that’s going to put the team over the top—no offence to Joey Crabb. I’m fine with Armstrong and Versteeg as they are. Gunnarson, Aulie and Schenn should all get better. Fourth-line could be better if Caputi gets some time, and Hanson, but that could just be six of one…
by Leaf in Habland on Jan 27, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
What do you mean by “over the top”? If you mean “just barely sneaking into the playoffs” then sure, but the Leafs are not even remotely close to being a championship-calibre team. They’re a good 5-6 players away from that, not 1 or 2.
by Draglikepull on Jan 27, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Some of those players can come internally though.
Kadri won’t be an 80pt player in the next two or three years but who knows what his ceiling is? We need a goaltender but Reimer looks decent as do Scrivens and Rynnas. Not penciling anyone in for the job for life but there’s hope.
Add one “top 30” player and one “top 10” and this is a good team.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Assuming Kaberle leaves (or stays and his play declines), the Leafs need 1 top-pair defenceman, 1 second-pair defenceman, 2 first-line forwards, and at least average goaltending.
I’m hopeful that some combination of Reimer/Scrivens/Rynnas can provide us the goaltending. I have no clue where the other 4 players are going to come from, unless Kadri becomes a point-a-game kind of player.
by Draglikepull on Jan 27, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Also, by the time the Leafs are competitive, Beauchemin will probably be gone or in decline, so that’s another defenceman to replace.
by Draglikepull on Jan 27, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think Kaberle can play his game for a while longer. He’s producing points and the Kaberle – Schenn pairing is playing awesome.
What if Komisarek finds his game and Phaneuf starts producing? Longshots sure, but…
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If they’re letting Kaberle walk and keeping Beauchemin, the goal should be to find a 2-way defender who can play big minutes with Phaneuf. So then you’ve got Beauchemin and Schenn as your shutdown pair, similar to Nashville with Klein & Bouillion. That leaves new defender + Phaneuf to go against easier competition.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
Kadri
is 21 next year… we want him to be an 80 point player in 3 years for sure.
If he isn’t hitting 80 points in 3 years, I don’t really think he ever will.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Should we even expect Kadri to be an 80 point player? We should hope he’s an established top 6 player in 3 years. Anything on top of that is bonus.
Negative. I am a meat popsicle.
I’d be happy if he ever hit 70 to be honest. I think if all goes right, he might be a consistent 55-60 point forward, which is not bad in the least.
L'eggo my Eggo.
All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity. ~Gordie Howe
by happiergilmore on Jan 28, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Parise is ranked 30th by NHL Central Scouting. Would that work?
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Jan 28, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, maybe I meant the line, not the team. That is to say, get that line going, and you have two good scoring lines. That bumps the depth down a bit. 5-6 players, yeah, but adding 1-2 strategically might help enhance some we already have.
by Leaf in Habland on Jan 27, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a difference between a young team with high pedigree and a team that’s young by default.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
So which one is the Leafs? I see this team being young mostly by default. For Dog’s sakes, we’re dreaming of burying multiple veterans in the minors.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
Agree, but it’s better than being old by default. At least you can ship guys out if you don’t think they are working out, shake things up. Harder to do with old crappy guys. At least with youth you still have a chance of getting better. E.g. the Sens: what do they have to look forward to?
by Leaf in Habland on Jan 27, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
2 more years of Gonchar.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Nah they’ll move Gonchar the trade deadlin- hahahahahaha
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’ve been saying this for months. I’ve stated over and over again that being young doesn’t mean you have unlimited upside.
Usually this degrades into a debate with Burtch where he cites examples of guys drafted in the 18th round who have gone on to Wayne Gretzkyian heights.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm can we just buy one of those?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
The retort is usually “who says they don’t have unlimited upside?”
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Tim Brent DOES have unlimited upside. I have foreseen it.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Search your feelings you know it to be true
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Guy’s been a scorer at EVERY level!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
how can you question a guy who pulls a Mats AND a Sittler goal in the same game?
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I missed this earlier
but I don’t usually take that tack.
I’m far more likely to state who I think has upside in particular and discuss WHY.
Also, if you could explain how that’s any different from your “goalies that post sub .900 save percentages after 40+ games CAN turn into viable NHLers” logic… please do so.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Is there a trade freeze during the all-star break? If so does that mean that Burke has had a trade freeze since New Year’s?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:21 PM EST reply actions
Burke traded for Brunnstrom like 2 weeks ago.
AHL trade only, but still…
I dont think anyone knows exactly what Burke’s trade freezes are except for Burke.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
You know I was just joking right?
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of freezes during the weekend in the past though. Could you imagine someone getting traded right before the game? They’d have to change hte patch on their uniform and everything
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
You know I was just joking right?
I take everyone’s comment literally and very seriously.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Damn the internets
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Joke?
A who what where now?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
It's kind of unrelated to Semin
but on the issue of contracts, how bad does Savard’s 7 year contract look right now. I mean, I for one feel terrible for the guy, and I wouldn’t wish long-term concussion symptoms on my worst enemy, but Boston is still on the hook for over $18 Million to the guy over the next 3 years, and cap-hits of $4 million for 6 more…
no wonder the Caps jumped at a chance for a 1-year deal. It does make Semin’s decision seem very short-sighted.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 2:43 PM EST reply actions
It’s going to be a major issue for them absent major changes to the CBA. As we all now know, LTIR does not simply take salary off the cap.
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Good thing Matt Cooke was punished.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
exactly. And I can’t see him saying “i’m not injured, I’m just retiring” and leaving 18 big ones on the table.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
DiPietro as well will likely be in a constant state of injury & recovery for the remaining 12 (13?) years left on his contract. You don’t just walk away from that type of money.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
and just because you can’t play at the level your contract dictates doesn’t mean you can’t play…
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
First thing I thought of is that it’s a ploy to try and win a Cup with the Caps right now, then if they can’t, he’s going to leave for the KHL.
Certified Grabbo Lover
what ever his motivations, it could come back to haunt him if he suffers a career ending/performance limiting injury.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
Right, imagine if DiPietro had only signed a 3 year deal? He’d be well out of the game by now. Instead he’s going to play in 20 games a season, keep destroying his hips, and rake in the millions. Genius.
Certified Grabbo Lover
Frankly I’m astonished he didn’t injure himself when he fell off his chair after reading his contract.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
But why would he retire? Does he hate money?
"That’s why stats are so important – anecdotal evidence just doesn’t cut it when you’re talking about history." - Bower Power
by The '67 Sound on Jan 27, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I sure do. That’s why I’m doing a PhD instead of getting a real job with the prospect of making any real money.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
No, but it might be nice to tilt his head to the side without brain soup coming out like it was on tap.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
He could sit around on LTIR for four years or whatever.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Since he’ll want his money I think what’ll happen is he gets waived to the AHL. He gets paid, no cap hit, etc.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
A la Alexander Mogilny.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I figure as much as well. It doesn’t make the contract any worse.
Just say “No” to long-term contracts!
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Just say no to your players getting horrible injuries.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If I were a GM I would base it largely on the age of the player.
If he’s in his early 20’s then a 5-10 year deal doesn’t seem to hard to swallow, as the player is likely to be in his prime while still being under a relatively good contract.
But once you start signing players in their late-20’s and above you’re taking on more risk, with regards to injuries, and deterioration of skill.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Could you imagine the savings the team would’ve had, paying a typical1980’s salary in today’s NHL.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
On Gretzky’s 18th birthday, January 26, 1979, Pocklington signed him to a 10-year personal services contract (the longest in hockey history at the time) worth C$3 million, with options for 10 more years.
imagine gretzky at 3 mill?!
elephant shell
OK, it's a quarter to 3 in the a.m. where I am, so I'm going to sleep
But I’d just like to throw it out there that this was one of the better discussions I’ve had on PPP lately. No biting sarcasm, personal attacks, and no angry ranting. Good times, everyone.
Cheers.
Oh, you better believe that's a paddling.
by JP Nikota on Jan 27, 2011 2:45 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Your mom is one of the better discussions I’ve had lately.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. I’ve stayed away lately on account of the vitriol (mine as well as others). So far so good today…
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
need to save the ruckus for when it really matters.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
I guess we haven’t been trying hard enough then.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 27, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
rec’d as well.
It’s been pretty f-in snippy around here lately (guilty). It’s like we all just had our first kid and aren’t getting any sleep. These are much better chats.
TOMAS KABERLE: LEAF FOR LIFE
I think sometimes we forget that we all cheer for the same team. I think it’s also born out of frustration. It reminds me of this Simpson’s quote:
Lisa: [reads sign: “Nuke the Whales!”] Why would you want to nuke the whales?
Nelson: I’unno. Gotta nuke something.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
badger my ass, its probably millhouse
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
that’s one of my favourite quotes of all time.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Lisa: How did the badger do that without ripping your shirt?
Homer: What am I, a tailor?
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Right
Another shitty season makes Leafs fans go something something something.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Isles have signed Moulson to a 3 year deal, 3.13 per.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
Bizarre cap number, but a good deal for both sides
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Neat. First time I’ve seen NYI spend money on a player in a while!
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Jan 27, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
He's
Tavares’ closest buddy on the team I think… so it makes sense from the perspective of keeping the future happy.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Going to be tough for Bailey when Johnny T signs here.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if this has been addressed yet but
1. How much cap space do we have this summer?
2. Are there any tasty free agents we might sign on July 1?
Offcourse there is, now if we were the Ottawa Senators, we’d be boned.
Kulemin, so hot right now, Kulemin.
Boom Posted!
by PassivelyTruculent on Jan 27, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Sens will be good again
Pierre McGuire will be their next GM…
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Oh please Pierre, hire your buddy Milbury as assistant.
So is there any hope?
Don’t let the debbiedowners get you down…
The future is always in motion.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
The Maple Leafs are on the move. For this hip, young hockey club, tomorrow is today and today is yesterday. You heard me. It was a year of soaring profits and significant one-time losses.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Remember that time we signed Macarthur?
L'eggo my Eggo.
All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity. ~Gordie Howe
by happiergilmore on Jan 27, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
1. Only waffles.
2. Only waffles.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
delicious waffles!
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
Devour my Revolution!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jan 27, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
So back to hockey
Leafs are not likely to make major changes… that’s my prediction.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
the standings say otherwise.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
young young young young
give them time to grow.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
young but not elite
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
tell you what, if Bozak turns into a point per game guy, I’ll buy you dinner at Moxies, at prime time when all the hottie waitresses are out.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
knew
that’s where this was going.
Guess what, Bozak, and about 830 other NHLers won’t score at a PPG pace this year.
That’s not a reasonable level to expect ANYONE to play at.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
yes, but that’s what an elite player is
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
that’s like saying a championship is defined as winning a 7 game series 4-0
as long as you win, you win, 4-3, 4-2, or 4-1
an elite player helps his team in an elite way. there doesn’t need to be a number that quantifies it
elephant shell
those guys were trash.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
So take the long, long, long odds that any player will become ‘elite’ and then there’s only a 1 in 3 chance that player will be a Maple Leaf? Let’s just give up now.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
yes, Bozak is the one player I would choose to become “elite” out of all the young leaf players
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
no one can afford to feed Jared on this bet. He’ll break you.
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
Devour my Revolution!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jan 27, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
define
elite?
THere are 11 point per game players in the NHL and 30 teams. 16 teams make the playoffs. Obviously a ppg player is not a requirement to make the playoffs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
ok fix that
there’s 13… I just missed Roy and Datsyuk because of their injuries
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
now that can’t be true, every team has elite talent except the leafs!
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
there are 26 goalies with a SV% > .91. Only 16 teams make the playoffs. Obviously an outstanding goalie isn’t a sufficient requirement for making the playoffs.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
Outstanding, no.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think Chris Osgoode has proven that point repeatedly.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Oh my yes.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
26
actually makes the cut off .916… not .91
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
There are only 18 goalies
with 20 GP and a SV% over .915… that’s a better cutoff for a playoff starter apparently.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
how many back ups / same team goalies is included there?
thomas/rask for one
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
doesn’t matter. Volkun has a .923, and they’re not a playoff team.
my point is that it’s not a sufficient condition for making the playoffs. it won’t solve all your problems.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
also, Cam Ward has a .920
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
and?
Carolina should be in the playoffs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
Backstrom has a .922
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
Minnesota
is 7th by point percentage… they should be in the playoffs also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
and back to Carolina and Ward
they’re 8th by point percentage… so same deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
so then Montreal should be out, but then Price still has a .920
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
yepo
and Montreal can’t score goals…. they’re like Florida.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't say
that goaltending alone got you in… you need some scoring also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
excessive scoring
and ridiculous goaltending… can get you in.
i.e. Tampa and Boston.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
A stud power forward
probably… when we all know the correct answer is a starting goalie.
“Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
- Sir Winston Churchill
I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 6:09 PM PST
the answer isn’t a starting goalie, then.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Quick has a .920
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Dubnyk has a .916
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Through how many starts?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
17…
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Khabibulin is their starter
he has an .891 SV%
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
in 31 gp.
so he’s the starter.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Is Dubnyk injured or something?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
they're doing
what we wanted to do with Giguere… protecting him or something?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
not
the starter… by any stretch.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
you aren't
changing my point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
your point or your opinion? pretty sure no one could change your opinion about anything…
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
also, i haven’t said anything you’ve disagreed with.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
my point.
you haven’t presented a case that significantly alters the argument. So far the closest you’ve come is Quick, and the goalies ahead of him would be Luongo, Lehtonen, Rinne/Lindback, Bryzgalov, Hiller, Backstrom… the exceptions would be Niitymaki/Niemi or Howard/Osgood.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
a single case never changes the facts about anything (anecdotes are for idiots like Malcolm Gladwell).
but, if the point is that good goaltending is enough to get you in the playoffs, then one of these goalies disproves that.
clearly goaltending can’t be everything.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
I never said that.
I said the cutoff for a playoff starter should be around .915 in 20 gp.
Thanks for setting up a straw man to play with though.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
and if you think
any team in the NHL playoffs right now wants to go into the post season with sub .915 goaltending you’re nuts.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Here's what I said.
There are only 18 goalies
with 20 GP and a SV% over .915… that’s a better cutoff for a playoff starter apparently.
Don’t know where you got what you said.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
also
you brought up goalies… not me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
again:
A stud power forward
probably… when we all know the correct answer is a starting goalie.
“Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
- Sir Winston Churchill
I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 6:09 PM PST
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
so you take THAT comment… and bring it into a completely separate thread? cherry pick much?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
A starting goalie
would have a larger impact on this team than any other position. That conversation did not relate to cut offs required for the playoffs in any way shape or form.
But hey… mix and match however it suits you.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
same thread. different branch.
what good is your word if it’s not consistent?
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
It is
you take things out of context. I didn’t contradict myself at all… you’re just playing with the organization of comments to create a narrative that suits your views.
Like I said… feel free to continue, it just makes me think you’re being a bit obtuse.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
i don’t know the meaning of obtuse.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if
you’re playing to an audience I hope you save the thread.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
That made me lol.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
lol. so I AM playing to an audience?!
remember this afternoon when this whole thread was civil and restrained. what happened?
I blame alcohol.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't realize
this was unrestrained…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
You have to click ‘up’ but I was lolling at your comment about not knowing the meaning of obtuse which is in itself obtuse.
Anyway, skinny tabs usually means that a convo has run its course.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
no no. i knew that.
and yes. this convo has run it’s course. i’m a few comments away from another self-imposed week-long ban.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking that you and Steve were actually having a conversation where you weren’t at each other throats, but oh well
i think we were earlier. then things got rowdy.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
I blame the Coke v. Pepsi talk.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
ironically
I have not had any coke in hours.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
are you suffering from withdrawal symptoms. that would explain the snarkiness.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not being snarky.
particularly.
I suppose I could just let you make points in random arguments and discussions that are unrelated and just accept YOUR viewpoints as accurate whether or not I think they are… but that feels intellectually dishonest to me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't know
until various points were pulled out of context that we were in a Kirk/Spock – Final Countdown-esque confrontation.
But I guess it’s entirely logical that people get worked up over what constitutes playoff level goaltending…. if you can’t lose it over sub-standard NHL puck stoppers what CAN you go nutzo over?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
strangely, my name is Stephen. So it’s a little like “Steven vs. Stephen”
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
REALLY!?!?!
Can I interest you guys in doing some Even Stephven posts?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
we could totally do
a thing where we argue either side, that would be fine with me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
YES!
OK OTHER STEPHEN:
What say you?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
yeah. I’m fine with it. if your’e still talking to me.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
totally!
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
AWESOME!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
now for a topic
which we haven’t beaten to death already.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
oh and
I can’t do it until next week at the earliest.
Unless you do something over the weekend and send it to me, since I’m out of town all weekend at a bachelor party.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
E-mailing you two right now.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Mine
is Stephen… Steve is just short.
So really it’s Stephen v. Stephen
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
SPY v. SPY!
Which one wants to be the black one?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I have
a jesus avatar… but I tend to wear black… I’ll go with whichever is left if he prefers the other.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
i’m clearly the evil one.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think we’ll make blue v. white.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
seems logical
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
sounds fine
to me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
The post is going to generate 1,200 comments.
And then the rest of us will chime in.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
by mf37 on Jan 27, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
lol
but if we air our grievances in the post, then do we really need to comment?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt it
and it’s never stopped me before… so I guess not.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
HAHAHA
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
ironically, if you had hit “up” you would have realized this…
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha
You’re right.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
just the encouragement
he needs to continue!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
A little late but
Don’t you DARE talk shit about Gladwell!
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Over-rated!
Clap! Clap! ClapClapClap!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yeah
I’m not a fan after I read blink… I didn’t mind outliers… but it’s pseudo-science writing for non-scientists.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Blink is drab as heck
Brain: The irony of it all, Pinky. Years of trying to take over the world, and all I had to do was say "truculence".
Follow me I'm Boring!
Devour my Revolution!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jan 27, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
I liked reading it but much more mathematically inclined people have debunked a lot of his theories.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Oh well
I’ve been talking to some people about this topic recently… the de-intellectualization of society.
People have more access to information than ever before, but their skills at filtering and analyzing what they access is going to shit.
It doesn’t help that higher education is largely meaningless in a lot of ways these days.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
People
don’t do a lot of thinking for themselves is what I see more of.
They also don’t seem willing to formulate their own arguments very well… they relax and go with whatever the people in positions of authority expect or want them to.
It’s very depressing really.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
I blame it on the education system…
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jan 29, 2011 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I’d say that’s an apt description, I think his books are interesting but like you said you need to look at it critically.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 28, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
LA
is one point out of 8th… and NONE of the teams in the West ahead of them have worse goaltending particularly.
The majority of the 18 goalies mentioned are in the West.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
that was merely a point of personal curiosity
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
i’m too lazy to find it.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
No
but there’s a lot of things that make a playoff team. Florida’s top scorer is Stephen Weiss with 33 points.
Boston has the top goalie in the NHL, and nobody with over 40 points in 50 games (Bergeron .80 ppg).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
There is not one single thing that guarantees anything other than that a blue Maple Leaf on a player’s chest will result in depressed results.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
this is axiomatically true.
it’s like living in an episode of Lost.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/statistics/?show=goalie&sortcol=7&sortdir=desc&prefilter=0-0&prefilter=2-1
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
Of course
this issue is exacerbated by the Sedins, Zetterberg and Datsyuk, St. Louis and Stamkos, Richards and Eriksson… so really those 13 players play on 9 teams.
9 teams in a 30 team league have “elite” players? and 4 of them have more than one? HOW FUCKED UP!
This is idiotic.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Ya, you kinda need close to a PPG player, if you want a shot at the Cup.
Stanley Cup Finalists since Lockout:
2006 Playoffs
Carolina – Eric Cole, 59 pts, 60 GP
Eric Staal, 100 pts, 82 GP
Oilers – Hemsky, 77 pts, 82 GP
2007 Playoffs
Ducks
Teemu Selanne – 94 pts, 82 GP
Andy McDonald – 78 pts, 82 GP
Senators
Dany Heatley – 105 pts, 82 GP
Spezza, 87 pts, 67 GP
Alfredsson, 87 pts, 77 GP
2008 Playoffs
Red Wings
Datsyuk, 97 pts, 82 GP
and so on , and so on…..
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
right, and in 5 years when the Leafs are hopefully competing or the cup we can worry about needing that PPG player
for now, lets just develop our young players
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
and
then we ignore 2009? and 2010? Did you miss the part about Philly last year? leading scorer Mike Richards, 62 points in 82 games.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
also Selanne, Heatly, Datsyuk, Alfredsson and others were not 1st round draft picks of the team they were on when they played on during those runs
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
In fact
Selanne was on his 3rd (5th actually but he went back) team? Heatley was on his 2nd… Datsyuk and Alfie were luck picks that nobody expected.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Oh
and why not mention the likes of Penner, Kunitz, and MacDonald on that ducks team while we’re at it? NCAA pickups anyone?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
man, without first round elite draft picks it is literally impossible for us to get a PPG player
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
McDonald
had 78 points in 82 games, as a 29 year old… 1 year after putting up 85 points in 82 games as a 28 year old… which came after he produced 30 points in 79 games the year before the lockout at the age of 26.
Those guys NEVER develop into elite players either way.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Impossible
First round picks are the only way you can win a Stanley Cup.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
and now we’ve reached the inevitable conclusion to this discussion.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
Good thing I came in or this would never have ended!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Look
How in the heck are we going to fit the league into the TSN Top 10 if you keep insisting that there are more than ten players in the league with any talent? I already got shot down on just giving Crosby spots one, two, four and nine.
The Flying V was offside every time.
it is if you follow Burke’s top 6 bottom 6 philosophy, where you better as hell have some elite scoring talent, because your two checking lines won’t provide it for you.
the Leafs major problem this year is that they aren’t scoring enough goals.
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
lots of checking lines around the NHL provide some decent scoring for their teams, the Leafs are actually well behind that since no one in their “bottom” 6 other than Versteeg can seem to put up points on a regular basis
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
TIM BRENT?
he has 8 goals now doesn’t he?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
nm
6 goals… 10 points.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Burke's last team
only has 1 ppg player… Selanne.
Are you saying Perry, Ryan, and Getzlaf aren’t elite?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
yes
because the checking lines haven’t scored enough.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
How can you tell
That they’re not going to be elite until they mature?
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
NM's Smug and Preening Chief Lady Pleaser. Just ask eightyseven. And Nashville fans
Remember that anecdote about the front office getting together and decided that what this team needed was “a stud d-man”? (I know we all do, it haunts us to this day, simply a rhetorical device) What do you think they feel is our most pressing need right now?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
A stud power forward
probably… when we all know the correct answer is a starting goalie.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah,
It’ tough because you look at the goalies we have in the organization, (excluding Giggy) and the odds suggest that one of them will be able to give us league average goaltending. Seems to me like brining in a power forward/playmaker is a much more pressing need (from an organizational depth point of view)
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jan 27, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
unfortunately
that would mean we should DRAFT a player of that type… or sign a UFA kid … which we’ve been doing… that’s why Burke keeps bringing in the likes of Caputi, Slaney, Mueller, Hanson, Irwin, etc.
He hasn’t caught what he wants yet apparently… but if we just sit patiently things will improve.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
one of those guys pans out and everyone forgets the ones that didnt
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Pan out = NHLer too. Some people tend to forget that you also need to develop strong 3rd and 4th liners.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yep
and our 3rd and 4th lines are pretty damn thin… particularly on the youth front. We’ve got the makings of a solid 3rd in Versteeg + Armstrong + someone….
our 4th needs work. Right now it’s Brent and Brown… and we need someone to replace Orr or Sjostrom.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Versteeg-Bozak-Armstrong or Versteeg-Hanson-Armstrong is probably our (vastly over paid) third line of the future
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'm fine
with the 2nd one… I still think Bozak is top 2 line material.
I also think Versteeg is paid appropriately given his point production. Armstrong’s will come with time and less injuries methinks.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
his production this year
is virtually identical to what he did last year at this point… I’d like to see it go up a bit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 27, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, the only way it would be Bozak is if a top flight center comes in via trade or the leafs develop one
if they bring in a winger (or kadri becomes one at an NHL level) than he probably remains the first line pivot
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 27, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
a stud d-man, natch
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
or better yet, a forward for the Marlies
Tank Nation 2011-2013. Embrace it, for it is the only way.
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 27, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
A good coach.
OH! Hi-yoooooooo!
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 27, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
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- Devils eliminate Rangers in Game 6, ending fear of the past, setting course for the future
- Adam Henrique sends New Jersey Devils to Stanley Cup Final with OT goal vs. Rangers (VIDEO)
- Watch Ilya Kovalchuk’s Game 6 goal for Devils, a.k.a. power-play porn (VIDEO)
- Devils look to eliminate Rangers in Game 6; Hal Gill’s broken tibia (Playoff Puck Previews)
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Blues CEO Mike McCarthy stepping down
- Blues CEO Mike McCarthy stepping down, not long after ownership change
- Rangers eliminated by Devils with crushing OT loss after another rally in Game 6 falls short
- Rangers season ends as another rally falls short
- Hard-skating Cataractes upset set defending champ Saint John 7-4 at Memorial Cup
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