What to do with Gardiner?
by SkinnyFish on Oct 10, 2011 7:01 AM EDT
in From The Branches
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"Jake’s been excellent up to this point," coach Ron Wilson said. "I’d have to say he’s been the biggest surprise of training camp. Everybody’s been enticed with his speed, for sure. Sometimes his speed actually gets him in trouble, but he has a knack of finding holes and getting out of those situations."
That was October 3rd, today it's a different story. After being "the best defenseman of the pre-season", Jake Gardiner has regressed to what we all thought he was prior to training camp; a rookie defenseman who needs time to learn how to play at the highest level. So that begs the question, is playing 12:49 a game on the bottom pairing (and most likely watching from the press box next Saturday for what I believe will be Cody Franson's first game as a Leaf) the best course of action regarding Gardiner's development? I say no. At just 21 years old and in the first year of a three year entry level deal, there is plenty of time for Gardiner to find his game in the AHL before he's ready in the big league.
The way I see it playing out is Franson will start on Saturday night, and if he gives a good showing, Gardiner gets sent down the next day with Burke recalling Matt Lashoff. Why Lashoff? Because Burke made the right move in starting Keith Aulie on the Marlies and should leave him there getting 20+ a night, not sitting in the ACC pressbox. Now granted there's the chance Lashoff gets claimed on re-entry waivers (possibly by an injury stricken Montreal team?), and that risk might seem too high for Burke, but I feel getting Gardiner's development on the right path to be worth that risk. Your thoughts?
Links after the jump.
Leafs Links
Gap in schedule awards Wilson with team building opportunity.
Maple Leafs Veterans Must Continue to Step Up After One Week Hiatus.
Well duh.
Danny Gray breaks Saturday's game down.
Other Links
Mike at VLM wants to hear your thoughts.
Ron MacLean Spills the Puck in Don Cherry Saga
Ron didn't help himself enough on Saturday apparently.
Winter Classic Design Competition Starts Now
For the artistically gifted among you, PuckDrawn is holding a contest for the Winter Classic.
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I don’t understand why we need 7 defensemen on the active roster. We could call up anyone in case of an injury no?
Doesn’t always work that way – if Marlies / Leafs are on a road trip, it’s a matter of logistics sometimes to be able to get a player there in time for a game. It’s safer to carry at least 1 extra player at each position.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You need 8-10 defensemen for a season.
That’s me paraphrasing Brian Burke. It’s the same reason you carry a spare in the trunk, in case one of your tires goes flat you have a replacement. Guys get randomly injured all the time, hell sometimes in warmups, and you need a player there ready to step in. This is especially critical on road trips where your farm team might not be only a few miles down the road.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Case in point: Montreal, Campoli out, Spacek potentially out. They may have to sign McCabe.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Oct 10, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
McCabe playing for the Canadiens would be hilarious.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard last night some one feeling “bad” for the Habs because of all their “bad luck” with injuries to their defensemen.
“Bad luck”? They keep signing/re-signing OLD players and players with INJURY HISTORIES. Why would fuck would I feel bad that they don’t factor health risks into their signings? Fuck you Habs.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Campoli
isn’t particularly old. Nor is Gorges, or Subban, or Diaz. Gill isn’t particularly injury prone.
Really we’re talking about Spacek (who is old) and Markov (who is injury prone).
They have Emelin, Nash, Weber, etc.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Campoli has a decent injury history
Last 5 years he’s missed 5, 15, 6, 36, and 31 games, and now is injured again.
So yes, the 3 players currently injured are either old OR injury-prone.
Not saying ALL their players are injured/injury prone, but I don’t feel bad for them for the players that are injured.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
fair enough
what will we say when Connolly, Lombardi, Lupul, Armstrong, Orr, and Brown are all out with injuries
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh we definitely have them too. I don’t feel bad for us either. I just can’t believe I was hearing a “I feel bad for the Habs due to injuries”.
Armstrong had 1 bad season last year, but im not ready to call him injury prone.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
I don’t think he is either… I’m just looking for names with recent injury issues.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Most of us will be happy when Orr is out with an injury (his goal already on the year not withstanding). At least until he proves he belongs in the lineup because he can play hardnosed without playing stupid.
Lombardi has had one year lost to injury. Not sure that makes him “injury prone” yet. It might, but I think that’s still up for debate.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Oct 10, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait
Edmonton needs helpon D too.
Better.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They got the talent and the pieces .. I just think that they are going to be a force in a couple of years.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
they don't really
have much in D… and Goal isn’t wonderful either.
They need to trade some forwards for some D prospects of note.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Mike Komisarek is quite notable
Get well soon Sid, Naz, Connolly, Bozie and Marc
Certified Grabbo lover & self-appointed Prime Minister of the Colby Armstrong Fanclub. Now a twit.
There’s a difference between notable and not able.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Oct 10, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 21 recs
notable for being not able?
Get well soon Sid, Naz, Connolly, Bozie and Marc
Certified Grabbo lover & self-appointed Prime Minister of the Colby Armstrong Fanclub. Now a twit.
Yeah they are hurting in Defense.. I think Dubnyk may or may not be good. Court is still out on him.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Dubnyk put up a .916 last year and looked good last night.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Dubnyk could be their Reimer.
Now they just need some players in front of him.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
A little different as he wasn’t really tossed into the fire quite like Reimer, but yeah, he’s a good looking prospect. They could use a second, but I wouldn’t list it as a glaring organizational hole at this point.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Oct 10, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to be happy
if Reimer this year turns out to be Reimer from last year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You and everyone here.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s almost a mathematical impossibility after 2 more #1 overall picks
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
which is why
they need to make trades… would you trust Tambellini behind those? I wouldn’t.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
hence all the rumours
about Katz leaning on Lowe to come back… which makes sense given all those upcoming contracts and necessary deals… within 2-3 years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Reports are that McCabe wants to stay close to where he is though and isn’t interested in moving very far. Apparently he’s already turned down offers from teams that would require him to move his family a long distance.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
His Daughter
has to be around 10 or so? Rough age to move a kid around a lot.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus he’s killing it on Battle of the Blades. You think he wants to give that gig up?
/notserious
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Oct 10, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So does Ottawa
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Ottawa
has a lot of injury prone old guys on D (more than Montreal even)… I’m shocked at how badly built it is.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
If you’re not a good boy the Gonchar will get you. GONCHAR!
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Gonchar is especially brutal from an age, contract, and terribleness standpoint. The perfect trifecta of horribleness.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
but
to their credit (unlike Edmonton) I’d say they have some top prospects back there – or already solid guys.
Rundblad, Karlsson, Cowen, Wiercioch… they’ll be ok without a trade – eventually.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Ottawa's
rebuild is Toronto’s rebuild from like 4 years ago.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
they need
Alfredsson, Spezza, Phillips, et al to be dealt or retire.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess
they could keep Spezza, he’s young enough.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
28 years old
wow, I did not realize Spezza was aging that quickly. (i.e. at the same speed I am).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Nono, he’s a Senator. That makes him age more quickly. Has to.
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Spezza has been fooling everyone by keeping his laugh at age 11
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Those 1st three look good, but are all offensive defensemen. None have really shown a terrible amount of defensive prowess.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Cowen
should develop some… they also have Brian Lee? but yeah… they’re missing Volchenkov and Chara types.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Cowen is already pretty solid. Rundblad could be really good, but probably won’t be.
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Rudblad?
why are you so sure he’ll crap out?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
rundblad even.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
He's 21
and he had a 50 point season in 55 games in the Eliteserien last year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Just a hunch I guess. Watched him in Sweden, good player, I just don’t think he’ll make it in Ottawa which will deflate his NHL value. I don’t think the management there develops blueliners the right way. Thay aren’t doing much for the development of say – Karlsson, who I think they value more. I think it’s bad, because much like you say, the kid has potential. Takes too many risks right now, but that will be coached out of him.
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Karlsson?
kid had 45 points in 75 games last year as an offensive D man… wtf do you expect out of a 20 year old normally?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said he wasn’t a good player. And the points total is due to his skill level not so much the right approach to his development – because if “oh I’ll just put him on the ice and we’ll take a gamble” was a good approach…
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Ottawa Seniors ? sponsered by AARP ?
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
AARP?
No, the OTPP.
Charter member - Grabbo Lover's Union, Local 84
by Sergei Puckizin on Oct 10, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
No .. the LCBO
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
the LCBO sponsors the Montreal winos in partnership with DuMaurier and just for men. Ottawa is actually sponsored by CAMH
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
7 on the team and 3 in the farm ready to call up in case a D man goes down. I say put Gardiner back down to the Baby Leafs and bring up either Aulie or maybe even Finger for a bit
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Finger would have to clear waivers, and would put us over the salary cap, no?
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont know if it would put you over the cap.. Maybe but yes he would have to clear waivers.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
The Leafs currently have $1.1 million in cap space. Finger’s cap hit is $3.5 million, so I was correct, that would put the Leafs way over the cap hit. Aside from the fact that it’s impossible because of cap space, what Skinny mentioned below is also true.
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, are you aware that your caricature is up? It was posted before the Leafs-Sens game.
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh Cool where ?
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
It’s in the Fanshot section.
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome ! You really are very VERY talented dude. You were able to capture my Eddie Munster peak hairline and my chubby cheeks that appear when I smile ! .. Great Job .. really looks like me !
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Glad you like it!
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll leave talking about the Flyers to you, if you leave talking about the Leafs to us.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
hey… Play nice.. Besides .. I am doing what Chemmy said… Talk Maple Leaf Hockey and nothing else.. and he is the CBO.
But I am sure CanadianMaple09 that Finger would have to clear Waivers.. but .. does anyone want him for his age, health and salary ?
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
I’d rather not be on the hook for $1.75M if he were claimed on re-entries, which I think he would be at that price.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
sounds about right… M’kay .. Guess Gardiner is going to need more practice. Make Phaneuf stay late on the ice with him and help him.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Why not? We’re on the hook for the whole 3.5 million now and not using him.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Oct 10, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No we’re not
If he gets claimed on re-entry we are stuck with $1.75M in cap space.
If we leave him in the minors, he has 0 cap hit.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, thanks. I didn’t know that money counted against the cap.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Oct 10, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah .. Then Leave him in the minors or release him ..
Can you release or buy out ?
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
No.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Finger’s contract, combine with his age and the fact that he’d have to clear re-entry waivers (which I doubt he would) mean that he is a Marlie until his contract runs out, or unless Burke tosses him into some kind of deal.
I say that it’s unlikely he clears re-entry waivers as I’m sure there is a team out there with awful defense, who could use Finger at a 1.75M cap hit.
I agree Gardiner needs to go down to play a lot. Aulie should stay down for now as well, because he also is young and needs big minutes to develop. I agree that Lashoff should be the guy to come up, as it’s no real loss if he sits in the press or plays 6th D minutes (12-14)
by Muellercleez on Oct 10, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He won’t sit in the press box because at half his salary ($300k) someone will claim him.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Cherry Still Relevant?
Nope. Cherry has had some good ideas in the past but between his inability or unwillingness to use logic in his arguments to clarify his position he sounds like an idiot most of the time. He isn’t getting any younger and change is hard for people, but that doesn’t give him the excuse to take uncalled for personal attacks. I used to mildly enjoy Cherry, but that was disgusting. I won’t be watching him anymore.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
How about Don Cherry losing his mind and going off on Current Enforcers & former pugilists like Stu Grimson..
I can just see the Grim Reaper sometime just passing him at the HNIC studios and saying
"Look here old man ! I am going to take this freaky Multi Colored God Awful suit your wearing and make you eat it as I pound the Snot Bubbles out of you !"
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
actually them saying stuff like " i thought he was my friend" is hurting Cherry pretty bad and it’s the right approach. Shannahan almost made him cry.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Re. Gardiner's development
In an interview, Burke did the usual “the lineup is up to Ron Wilson” bit, but he did say that he made it perfectly clear to Wilson that if Gardiner stays with the Leafs, he needs to get significant ice-time. So if Franson is decent, I would be hugely surprised if Gardiner weren’t sent down.
Come get your duds in order...
unless they want to put Komi in the press box (which they never have ever ever) or risk someone else to waivers they dont have much choice
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 10, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
They had never put Orr in the pressbox either until this season (if you believe the story that he was healthy enough to play at the end of last year but they were just being cautious)
So there is still a small hope that they might sit him in favour of Franson if Gardiner does in fact stick.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
a gardiner – Franson pairing would be an utter disaster on the Leafs side of the red line
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Oct 10, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
a Komi-Gardiner
pairing already is, but I don’t really want Franson or Gardiner on the PK.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Those two looked like keystone cops on the first Sens goal.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
They have
in virtually every game they’ve played at one point or another in their own end… it just didn’t result in goals in game 1.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Burke also said that if Jake made the team he expected him to be paired with Komi. That says to me that Burke expected him to get third pairing minutes, which is just what he’s done. If Burke and Wilson didn’t think getting about 12 minutes was enough to promote his development, why did he make the team? I doubt they expect him to crack the top four anytime soon.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Oct 10, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I also think he loses a lot of his powerplay time when Connolly comes back, so he’ll be down to even fewer minutes.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Hm. Not sure Connolly comes right back and goes on the point on the PP.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
If Wilson values faceoff ability, which he seems to, I think it’s pretty likely we see Lupul-Bozak-Kessel-Connolly-Phaneuf as our 1st PP unit when Connolly is healthy. The gap between Bozak and Connolly’s faceoff ability is not small.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Except Buffalo didn’t have a great passing power play QB D-man to play on the point (Liles).
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Connolly should only see 1PP point play if something doesn’t allow Liles to not do it (hurt, penalty, end of long shift). Put him at center or let Kessel take the draw and have Connolly line up on the wing if we’re that concerned about his face-off ability.
by Nigel Cadbury on Oct 10, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Connolly should only see 1PP point play if something doesn’t allow Liles to not do it
And then if Gardiner, Gunnarsson, and Franson are all hurt.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
there is also that, but not sure if they’d use Connolly back there if Kessel isn’t on the ice but never know what Wilson’s blender is going to come up with.
by Nigel Cadbury on Oct 10, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
partially
because of all the extra practice time with the NHL team in the early part of the season.
I think he’s learning a lot… but there are giant gaping holes in his defensive game.
At this stage of things the only way they clear space for Gardiner is trading Gunnarsson or Liles… I think another year in the AHL is a better idea. Let Liles walk as a UFA and then Gardiner can play up next season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
A must see goal
by Evgeny Kuznetsov in the KHL http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UHJdk_qHMz8#!
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 8:48 AM EDT reply actions
it was OK. that one guy should have leveled him when he cut across the ice. euros are soft! ;)
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but the speed he generated on the turn was amazing!
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, Orlov is there too. They don’t have a problem picking Russian guys because of Ovechkin, Semin etc… What Russian player wouldn’t want to play there. And they have Colorado’s pick… Yakupov…
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
He didn't generate
any extra speed on his turn… he was skating on one foot…
It helped that the two defenders collided with each other.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he did turn exactly so he didn’t lose much speed. Takes skill to do that.
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter
by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Oct 10, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
My two cents on Gardiner
I think Gardiner should be on the Marlies, which is the same thing I said during camp when his defensive shortcomings were already quite apparent. But I think we actually have a bit of a problem on defence, which is this – Franson isn’t very good on his off-side (he’s said so himself), and there isn’t any room for him on the right side at the moment. Komi has played well enough to earn continued ice time, and I think we need him on the roster for penalty killing, as Burtch has said. Schenn and Phaneuf have obviously got the other RD spots locked up. So what do we do with Franson? Do we play him on his off-side, hoping eventually he can make it work, and being willing to accept that we’re probably going to allow some extra goals while that happens? Or do we call up Aulie, let him take Gardiner’s minutes, and keep Franson in the press box? I still think we need to find a trade involving a defender. Ideally we could just move an RD for a stay-at-home LD.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
I don't know about Aulie either
I really think Lashoff, or someone like Holzer, would be a better idea.
We don’t really need to make a trade.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Lashoff would get claimed on re-entry. At $300k, why wouldn’t a team like Montreal with some injured guys pick him up? Or a cap-conscious team like Florida or Dallas? His high AHL salary might scare off teams, but not if they actually plan to keep him in the NHL.
I don’t know enough about Holzer’s ability to say much about him. Maybe he would be a decent option.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I forget if he's an LD or RD
also we have Gysbers… again can’t remember his side… but both are solid Defensive D men.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
we could promote
either of those, and play them with Franson… give Komi nights off… it wouldn’t bother me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
From what I’ve seen Gysbers is pretty terrible defensively. Good offensively but just bad on defense.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We don't need to make a trade at all
But if one presents itself that can help out in another area we’re deficient in? At least it’s an area of surplus.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt
anyone is banging down our door to provide us a solution to our problems.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather call up Lashoff for Gardiner than Aulie. But I think, for the time being, Franson is going to have to play his weak side. He’s only 24 and has pretty solid offensive skills. I’d hate to move him unless it was in a package for an elite player.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Lashoff isn’t happenning. Someone will claim him. As a couple of examples:
If Phoenix claimed Lashoff and sent their #7 defender to the minors, they’d have a cap savings of $250,000 and a real dollar savings of $145,000.
If Winnipeg claimed Lashoff and sent their #8 defender to the minors, they’d have a cap savings of $400,000 and a real dollar savings of $295,000.
No way does Lashoff get passed over. For a team that struggles financially, that kind of real cash savings would be huge.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously the cap savings don’t matter to those teams, but the real dollar savings do.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
plus
if he’s claimed on recall waivers, we’re paying half his salary while they get the cap hit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Re-entry waivers is half the cap hit and half the salary. We’d take half of each and so would the other team.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
ok
but still… half the salary? that’s a steal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
For the other team, definitely. I just don’t see why we’d agree to take on $300k in cap hit for no benefit.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m really not sure anyone would claim Lashoff.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
wasn't that
later in the season when the cap situations were more settled?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I think
it’d be a bit different given how early it is, and how decimated some D units are already. That being said, he’s obviously a replacement level guy, so people aren’t desperate to add him obviously.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I obviously
overused the word obviously in that previous posting.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
If anyone were “desperate” to have him they’d have claimed him off waivers a couple weeks ago. But if you can have him at half price and save $300k over the guy you’re currently sitting in the press box, why wouldn’t you, if you’re a team where every dollar matters?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
would anybody be terrible upset if Lashoff was claimed? You don’t know unless you take a chance
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
not in the slightest
frankly I think it’s a good thing if he is (I just don’t want us paying half his salary).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
it's one of those things
where if someone plans on picking him up, I’d hope we could work out a low level trade for him… like a 5th or 6th rounder… kind of like the Steckel deal only cheaper.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, I don’t care if we lose Lashoff, but I think it’s pointless to risk cap space like that for no reason.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
N E Body see RNH's Goal ? Sweet .. I, however feel sorry for the Broadcasters nowadays.
With all these Hyphenated Names that are popping up in the NHL.
Seems weird. Well.. IMHO .. I think it is.
its going to make the Announcers job that much harder..
Jim Hughson ..
"Nugent-Hopkins wins the face off. .. Back to Ekman-Larsson… over to Grand-Pierre… picked off by Pierro-Zabotel… he is stripped and its back to Paajarvi-Svensson … Regained by Letourneau-Leblond… flipped to Zuccarello-Aasen who fires and SSSCCCCOOOOOORRRRRREEEESSSSSSS !!! Over the Glove side of Mark-Andre Fleury ! Power play goal ! .. And we will be back in a minute with this message brought to you buy Smithkline-Beecham and Anheuser-Bush !"
Pppsssttt hey Kelly !… What the fuq ever happened to names like Billy Smith, Bobby Orr or Bobby Clark !!! My fuq’n head hurts from this hyphenated Crap ! Someone get me a Scotch and a Ibuprofen ! .. What ? the Mic is still On ?!!?!??!! Why didn’t you tell me Hrudey !!! What the HELL !!!
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Women
don’t all want to change their last names, so the kids get hyphenated… it’s not particularly abnormal these days.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
oh and Fleury
only has 1 last name… his first name is Hyphenated (Marc-Andre)
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I know.. it was the Only Goalie I could come up with to complete the play by play idea…
you sir… are very observant.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
No, but it is a little irritating. What happens when those kids have kids? Triple names? Quadruple names even?
Come get your duds in order...
yeah .. Kinda slipperyslope deal huh.
Besides it does get crazy after a while
here is a little did you know…
Jarome Arthur-Leigh Adekunle Tig Junior Elvis Iginla
AKA Jarome Iginla
Google it .. I am not kidding.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
I know a couple who created a hybrid name that they both took on. The name they came up with: Fabrown.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
My wife and I decided to hyphenate and were pretty sure somewhere down the line our names will become hybridized to: Winning
-"I'm not drinking and driving, I'm driving while I'm drinking....Right boys!?"
Lest we forget: Brett Lebda
I grew up as a hyphenate with two nouns: Bird-Diamond. I hated it and changed it myself when I got to high school (I kept the latter).
"To be a Leafs fan is to know your heart will be broken in the end."
–Seamus Borschevsky
by Berezin's Spleen on Oct 10, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
~
you know I figured that and I get what your saying but what makes that still odd.. is that as parents.. you still decide the full legal name of your child at birth and you dont have to have (there is no law saying you have to) the hyphenated last name on the child.. heck you dont even have to have the same last name if you dont want to. If you have a child and you want to legally name your child … say… Darryl Sittler and you and your wifes name is Steve Burtch and (insert female name here) Burtch… There is nothing saying you couldnt do that.
Just saying.
anyhoo… When is Monster going to get a start in goal ?
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
My wife
and I both have the same name… so I do understand your point of concern (peripherally).
We plan on giving our kid our last name.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
your wife’s name is Steve? just kidding.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s like John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt in real life.
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was Jinkleheimer-Schmidt … maybe thats the Philly accent I have I dunno…
oh and wasnt he that guy who shot that guy for looking at his wife because he was in the Mob ? .. Just Kidding.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
I am the III (3rd) generation. We want one child and I hope its a healthy child. I will love either a boy or a girl but if its a boy,, it will the IV (4th) !!
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
And what’s the deal with airline food?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Oct 10, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
airline food ??
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
The container is round, the mug is round…
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
by TheBurnward on Oct 10, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I know! Could this stuff taste any worse? It’s, like, “Thanks, but no thanks. I’m still stuffed from that huge bag of smoked almonds!”
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Beef Stroganoff? And the guy next to me, he likes it! He can’t get enough of it! I’m looking for a dog to slip it to, this guy’s asking for thirds!
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
I think the Leafs will defer a decision on Gardiner for two weeks.
There’s no real benefit to sending him down this week, since the Marlies don’t play until Friday and the Leafs are off until Saturday. The benefit of Gardiner getting a full week of NHL-calibre practices outweighs the very small cap savings the Leafs would get by saving 5 days of his cap hit.
But even next week is a very manageable schedule, with home games against CGY, COL and WPG. If Gardiner’s still not getting much ice time and having problems keeping the puck out of his own end then that seems a more reasonable time frame to send him back down.
And by then this whole Montreal running out of defence thing might have subsided and you’d theoretically have a better chance of getting someone like Lashoff back through re-entry waivers
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I guess the note on practices depends on where Gardiner is going to spend the majority of this season. If Burke and Wilson intend on keeping him with the Marlies for a while, right now might actually be the perfect time for him to get a few practices in before he plays a game in the A.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
I’m taking the long-view wherein Gardiner plays more than 2 career games for the Leafs. Becoming accustomed to an NHL practice schedule probably does more good than getting to know his teammates for his 25 game stint with the Marlies
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Yeah .. 2 games into the season is a bit early .. wait about 10 to 15 games in to get a more accurate assessment.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
See my original post. The Leafs will have a better idea after the next 3.
JP’s saying sending him to the Marlies right away might be better to get him used to the Marlies teammates. I think keeping him up for a week of meaningful NHL practices is better.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I agree with you.
He needs to get some NHL practice and get to know his Maple Leaf Teammates tendencies. YOu can only get an assessment of a player in 10 to 15 games. Thats why the NHL has the 10 game rule with 18 yr old rookies like Luke Schenn when he came into the NHL.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Does anyone know if a claimed player on a waiver callup count as a roster spot to the leafs?
Also I thought lashoff was an RFA compared to say finger so isn’t their some protection for the leafs?
1) No
2) No. It’s not about RFA vs UFA status, it’s about waiver exemption which neither Lashoff or Finger have.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Has anyone compiled a quick list of 2011-12 waiver exempt Leafs and Marlies?
Bitter Leaf Fan Blog | You can Follow Me on Twitter
by mf37 on Oct 10, 2011 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Get to work grandpa.
lol Giants
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
…and the Cards. Not the best Sunday I’ve had in front of the TV.
Bitter Leaf Fan Blog | You can Follow Me on Twitter
by mf37 on Oct 10, 2011 2:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cardinals lost to a team in the playoffs.
Giants lost to THE SEATTLE SEAHAWKS.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Per Jonas Siegel: MacArthur not at practice.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
…..
SPECULATION!
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he hurt himself in practice, or yeah, maybe Burke is comfortable with Frattin there and a move is coming.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Not sure how I feel about giving up on MacArthur so quickly…unless something seriously good is coming back.
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
SPECULATE FASTER
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
GARDINER IN TRADE WITH CALGARY FOR GIORDANO (Toronto Native)
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
MACARTHUR For Lebda .. NO wait .. Just kidding.. FOR COGLIANO in a trade with Anaheim.. .. No wait.. Again .. Just Kidding.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
I honestly have no loyalty when it comes to MacArthur. If we get back something that looks like an upgrade to our #1 line, I’d pack his bags and buy his plane ticket.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
MacArthur
on line 2 is so far superior to Frattin.
He also has far more value than many of our players though, so who knows.
If he’s just ill this is going nowhere… I like our depth, happy to have him on the team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I like our depth, happy to have him on the team.
This is just it. He’s good. He’s cheap. But if some other GM over values him and is willing to give us something better back, say goodbye.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s something better? From what I see he is a good 2nd line winger who is 25, adequate defensively and on a cheap contract.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i dunno. but if a team wants to give up an elite player for a package that includes Mac, i’m willing to part with him.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
If Mac is the centrepiece in a deal that lands us Parise or Stastny? Sure, trade him. But unless we’re getting a guy who is relatively young and can score more than 60 points per season, I don’t see the point.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Listen we traded nobody to Calgary for Dion Phaneuf and nothing to Montreal for Grabovski. I’m pretty sure we’re swapping MacArthur for Steven Stamkos.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
wtf is happening. i can’t comment.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
odd. if you just try typing “this.” it doesn’t let you comment. WTF?
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
this.
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck. wtf.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s weird. I can type “this.” just fine, but just typing “gullible” gets rejected.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
asdf
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s weird. It should say “you must provide either a subject or a verb.”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Oct 10, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
stop using a loser browser
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Chrome FTW.
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Weird man, my internet browser lets me comment.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I had to switch to Firefox for SBNation sites because my Chrome stopped working in different ways.
Wouldn’t let me comment or reply
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
probably for the better. with Chrome’s speed Burtch would probably kill the server with 14 replies in 0.8 seconds.
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Oct 10, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s doing it RIGHT NOW i swear to god.
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
this.
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck me.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll pass
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
…the lube?
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
This.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Oct 10, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Let’s not forget nothing for Lombardi and Franson.
Funny how the “Franson trade” has turned into the “Lombardi trade” two games into the season.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd do it
if it was an actual elite player… not some guy that’s 33+ who has never played in an all star game and has scored 30 goals once or twice. (i.e. Morrow).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that the MGK line has some good Chemistry and I think he is a good player. I dunno why people would want him gone ?
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
He won’t be better by next Saturday will he?
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
via
Lombardi centres 3rd line with frattin and colby on the wings. Dupuis is between steckel and brown. Rosehill-connolly-orr are extras.
Now those are 3rd and 4th lines I can get behind.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Seriously.
Unfortunately that still leaves Bozak as a Top 6 forward.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
if it ain’t broke…that line combined for 3 goals and 8 points on Saturday. I’m happy leaving Bozak as the #1 C for now.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m happy leaving Bozak as the #1 C for now.
You shouldn’t be.
We need Connolly back. I hope he’s fine for Saturday.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You shouldn’t be.
Why not? Part of the reason the MGK line is so successful is because of their chemistry. If Bozie and Kessel can develop that as well, I’m happy to leave him there.
We need someone on that line that gets Kessel going night in and night out. I don’t care if it’s a worse line on paper so long as the line as a whole is a threat.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
In 35 minutes on the ice with the top line Bozak has 1 assist and 2 shots on goal.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I’m well aware. But Kessel has 4 goals and 2 assists. That’s what matters.
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Phil Kessel produces even when he’s got no one on his line.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I tend to agree with this. Kessel just needs someone capable of putting the puck in his general direction and he can take it from there.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying, if Connolly plays C on that line and Kessel dries up, there’s no reason not to put Bozak there.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Bozak was in on at least another 2 goals – whether he formally gets an assist on not.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Oct 10, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Were any of those goals a result of an awesome play by Bozak? Also doesn’t Kessel have 3 goals?
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
no they were all a result of dirty Kessel sniping dirty snipes. Dirty. I think Lupus passed the puck directly to him on at least 2 of those.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
yep. it wasn’t a pass that connoly couldn’t have made, but he does kind of seem to always know where kessel is.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I think they should keep Bozak with Kessel for Saturday and see how it goes. Connolly shouldnt be shoved right back onto the “1st” line anyways.
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
Connolly shouldnt be shoved right back onto the "1st" line anyways.
Why the hell not? He’s an objectively better player than Bozak.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
He’s always just coming off an injury, that strategy won’t work.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I understand easing back in Lombardi after he missed an entire year. But easing back in Connolly after he missed a week just seems stupid.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
“Objectively?” I’m sure it’s nice to be able to use that word in a sentence, even if it’s a load of bollocks. Connolly’s had 11 years, Bozak almost 2. Connolly has almost certainly peaked, Bozak almost certainly not so. Connolly had 42 points last year, Bozak 32.
And Connolly is an injury magnet, Bozak not so. Coes that matter? Well… only if you would consider it a difficulty if Connolly got injured (again) just before a big game or going into the playoffs, after playing all year with Phil.
Not saying Connolly might not be better with Phil than Bozak is. Just saying there’s no way the distance between these two is so great as to say that “objectively” he’s better.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Oct 10, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’d be hard to argue that, while on the ice, Connolly is a better player.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
the second goal was also largely the result of a great forecheck by Kessel.
yeah, you read that right.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m sure you did. i just love re-living the sweetness.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In reference
to the top line… see below.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
the breakaway oops I scored goal was a bozak pass? I thought that was Lupul. either way Phil made that happen with a forecheck.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What I loved about that goal is that it was started by Kessel rubbing out Gonchar on the wall and stealing the puck. Grittiness, baby.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
oh yes. you’re right. my bad. 3 and 2
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by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, they aren’t going to pay Connolly over $4m to not try him with Kessel.
Case closed.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
I dunno man Connolly can bring some tough play and big body presence to a line with Joey Crabb and Darryl Boyce on the Marlies maybe.
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Connolly is faster, better hands, as good or better a passer and a better shot than Bozak. I like Bozak but he’s really more a 3rd center.
Also, I don’t get why Steckel would be on the wing, unless he’s taking the draws for his line and then switching off to the wing
by Muellercleez on Oct 10, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyler Bozak has actually played a game though. Discuss.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Tyler Bozak – On pace for 40 assists and 82 games played.
Tim Connolly – On pace for 0 assists and 0 games played.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Connolly’s Corsi is better though.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't see
how this is a problem at this point. Lombardi is probably a better player when he’s 100%, but he isn’t 100%.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
OK
so I know it’s early in the year (SSS) but based on the first 2 games, here are some Corsi numbers:
Kessel: -23.13
Bozak: -44.35
Lupul: -30.35
Kulemin: +2.78
Grabovski: +2.45
Frattin: +2.61
Looks like not a lot is changing with our top line at this point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
So the Kessel line seems pretty bad defensively but their shots count more?
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
Yes
when Kessel is scoring, and Lupul is productive, we can look the other way. When that slows down (which it inevitably will), we’re going to have serious issues.
Oh and just to add to my Gunnarsson admiration…
Phaneuf: +43.27
Gunnarsson: +31.92
Those are Corsi ON numbers, not Corsi REL… just in case anyone is wondering.
But as far as Corsi REL QoC goes, Liles and Schenn are facing tougher comp so far (but of course after 2 games, the games vs. the Leafs are half of that).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Two games into the year I’d guess that Liles and Schenn have a higher Corsi REL QoC because they’re not as good and they’re driving up their opposition Corsi numbers, not because they’re actually facing tougher competition.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Lupul has as many SOG as Grabovski and Kulemin combined.
Either Kessel’s line is giving up a metric ton of shots, or Grabo and Kulie have a really hard time hitting the net.
Or it’s early and it doesn’t mean a whole lot at this point.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
point 2 is the hot button.
They get a lot, but they give up a shitload… they suck defensively.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think ‘suck defensively’ is fair at this point. Kessel has had sever good backchecks already this season. He also seems to be more aggressive on the forecheck. He’s already a +4 in the 2 games, despite the debacle that was the 3rd period on Saturday.
Maybe it’s just a coincidence that those numbers fit into the schema of “Kessel sucks at D”. It’s too early to tell.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
a few anecdotal moments (1 or 2 good back-checks – the goals?) are outweighed by how often the other team has the puck and dominates his line in it’s own end.
The Kessel line is good off the rush, and they’ve made some decent defensive plays, but they suck from a possession perspective… that’s what Corsi is used for – the other team is firing way more shots in the direction of the Leafs goal than his line is…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel has 41 minutes played this season and he was out on the ice for two late game shifts with the opposing goalie pulled. I’m guessing that’s going to make your possession stats look bad.
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I also tend to think that wingers have a far lower effect on shots against than centres or defenders do. Over the course of a whole season it probably washes out somewhat, but based on only two games it could just be that Kessel has been on the ice with poor defenders.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at
Lupul, Kessel, and Bozak:
SAON/60 – Lupul (48.4), Kessel (53.7), Bozak (54.8)
MAON/60 – Lupul (14.0), Kessel (14.7), Bozak (18.3)
BFON/60 – Lupul (16.3), Kessel (16.8), Bozak (20.9)
That’s a hell of a lot of shots against.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
in a
45 minute session of ES hockey (comparable to a full game) a line of Kessel, Lupul, and Bozak would surrender around 64 shot attempts, with 38 or so hitting the net… JUST on ES… that’s not including the PK.
They don’t control play… or they haven’t so far.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
oh
and that’s how many shot attempts ABOVE their own they’d surrender.
Think about that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
let's say
they fired 20 shots of their own… that means the other team would get around 58 shots on goal… in 45 ES minutes.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
nm… I was using the shot totals, not the Corsi numbers… nix that last bit.
it’d be 38 shots against.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to “think about that” because I don’t engage in discussions about statistics when the number of samples = 2.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
right
so don’t base it just on this year, include last year, when the numbers were pretty damn bad also.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
right. which is what you’re doing. you’re taking a schema from last year and applying it to 2 games worth of data.
it doesn’t mean that the numbers aren’t going to play out that way this season. it just means you shouldn’t rush to interpret those numbers and say “SEE!! SEE!!! Kessel sucks at D!”
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really think
he sucks at D… he sucks at maintaining possession for extended periods of time, particularly on ES.
His line tends to make one off rushes, they lose possession and end up having to go back to their end of the ice and deal with extended periods of defensive zone coverage.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Corsi Rel Qoc:
Bozak: 10.196
Lupul: 5.6
Kessel: 4.752
Kulemin: 0.117
Frattin: -2.21
Grabovski: -3.57
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m dumb at stats, but does this mean that although the LMK line has a low Corsi, they’re seeing much harder comp than the KGF line?
if by LMK you mean LBK, then yes.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
As I said above, the Leafs have only played two games. Odds are the Corsi Rel QoC is being driven primarily by the Leafs play, ie. LBK seems like they’re facing “tough” competition because they’re giving up a lot of shots against.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
or maybe they are just playing against tough competition? I don’t actually remember what the match-ups were in the games. Although the Kessel line being out in the last minutes of the game on Saturday suggests that Ron wasn’t holding back from putting them against the top lines.
Again, it’s a little early for anything quantitative at this point. This is the point for squinty-eyed quantitative analysis. that and unbridled un-objectivity.
2-0!!!!!!!!!!!
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Against Ottawa, MGK spent more time playing against the Spezza line than anyone else did:
http://www.timeonice.com/default.html?GameNumber=20011&submit=Go
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
in the last 10 minutes of the 3rd kessel was out almost exclusively against Spezza.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like a roughly 50/50 split to me between the Kessel line and the Grabbo line, but he definitely was out there a lot late in the game.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
“he” being Kessel
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
you know that they haven’t even been on the ice for 45 minutes of ES hockey, right?
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
right
I’m extrapolating based on their play so far…. using numbers…. based entirely on what they’ve done so far.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
these aren't
invented numbers… the shots, misses, and blocks actually happened.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
you can’t extrapolate with 2 data points. it’s completely absurd.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't say
that so far they’ve been shelled? because in the two games they’ve been shelled? how the hell is that absurd?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
they're
per 60 normalized stats from 2 games… why can’t I say based on their play in those 2 games here is their rough average?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You can think
the numbers will improve (they probably will) but I don’t see them suddenly going positive… they were horribly negative last season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
if you have 2 points they form a line. but you have no idea what the variance is. you have 1 degree of freedom. you can’t do an kind of legitimate, reasonable analysis of numbers when your n = 2. it’s just absurd.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
They've played
around 60 shifts….. not 2.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
the shots they are surrendering
came across two games where they played around 30 minutes of ES hockey.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll grant
that they could swing a lot in the future… but I’m going to repeat, I don’t see them going into the heavy positives anytime soon.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Just Curious
But do we really need Corsi numbers to tell us which lines provide offensive pressure and puck possession vs which lines are hemmed in their own zone a lot?
Until recently, I was suffering out west in Vancouver, having to listen to dumbass Canuck fans asking me “how ’bout them Nucks?” every morning – subject of potential future rant… Point is, I didn’t get to see too many Leaf games (the odd HNIC Leaf national game and the odd TSN national game) but it was painfully clear to me that the MGK line was clearly in the opponent’s zone maintaining puck possession and creating scoring chances and shots; meanwhile, the Kessel-Bozak-(Versteeg/Lupul/whomever) line from last year would make a rush, shoot and either score or sometimes get a rebound chance, but then would end up in their own end for the remaining 80% of their shift.
Not trying to be a jerk (especially since I’m a new poster) but surely we don’t need stats to quantify what we can clearly see in front of us nightly, do we?
by Muellercleez on Oct 10, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
“it was painfully clear to me that the MGK line was clearly consistently in the opponent’s zone….”
by Muellercleez on Oct 10, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
If we are going to use Corsi, as said many times already, this is too small a sample size of games. We need to see more varied competition as well, not just a projected 7th-9th place team and a projected lottery-pick team.
by Muellercleez on Oct 10, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Not trying to be a jerk (especially since I’m a new poster) but surely we don’t need stats to quantify what we can clearly see in front of us nightly, do we?
We absolutely do. Stats back up what we see with our peepers, and sometimes tell us that our eyes have been lying to us.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
It works both ways though, case in point Mike Weaver.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Oct 10, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
isn’t that a case of confirmation bias though? it’s like, sometimes we take stats and say “but that doesn’t mean anything because I’m watching the game.” other times we say “player X may LOOK like he’s awesome but the stats say otherwise.” we often choose one over the other, but almost always to confirm some pre-existing bias.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but. It’s also an acknowledgment that advanced statistics in an NHL environment are relatively new, and aren’t capable of giving us a full and complete picture.
The result is that sometimes we need stats to overturn our eyes and sometimes eyes to overturn our stats. The judgment of when to use which is certainly susceptible to bias, but that doesn’t dismiss the need for (or resulting discussion surrounding) the check.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
zherdev has one of the better corsi rating for philly last year but was not highly regarded. opinion always seems to enter with any stats.
The judgment of when to use which is certainly susceptible to bias, but that doesn’t dismiss the need for (or resulting discussion surrounding) the check.
I agree, but it’s the bias we have to watch out for. It’s also important not to dismiss the check in others, as if to say “my bias is the right one. I know when to use which.”
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
Yesterday I had no money but today SkinnyFish paypaled me one dollar. Using those two data points I’ll be a millionaire in 4637ish.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 10, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
ah
but if you asked him 60 times and he repeatedly shot you down before paying you 1 dollar, that’d be 1 out of 60 chances.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
shit. you’re right. i retract everything.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
chemmy ? with compound interest you could be rich in a year !
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
I’d Gladly pay you tuesday a dollar for a hambuger today.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
But they have played around three minutes in “defensive shell” mode.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
A large chunk
at the end of the Ottawa game was played in Ottawa’s end, that wouldn’t have made their numbers this bad.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
because they were doing a good job forechecking. which is called being defensively responsible and controlling the play.
don’t you even watch the games?
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
It was
one shift… obviously they gave up a lot in the other shifts… do you not understand how the numbers work? and yes I watched the whole game.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ignoring
the whole game (or 2 games) worth of numbers because of one shift seems a tad ironic coming from someone that says they won’t do a stat analysis on the basis of too small a sample… wouldn’t you say?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
no i wouldn’t say. i’m making a quantitative analysis that kessel “looks” like a better, more defensively responsible player this year. I don’t have any numbers to back it up, but i’ve admitted to what it is.
you’re trying to claim that you’re making an objective rational argument based on fact, when in fact you’re dealing with numbers that are far too small.
come back in 4 weeks and make the same argument and i’ll agree with you 100%. just don’t throw those numbers around and pretend like you’re making some kind of incredible, objective fact-based observation.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck. my “quantitative” was supposed to be “qualitative”.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
damn fingers.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
if there's no numbers
how the hell is that quantitative?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I never
said it was incredible…. ever. I don’t think it is. But I don’t think i’ts entirely meaningless, which is your assertion.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
the shot numbers
I posted aren’t a good sign… sure they’re “meaningless” to some of you… but not to me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
you know what else isn’t a good sign? Reimer’s SV% on Saturday. Lets send him to the A for a bit to learn how to fucking play hockey.
also the n in that case is like 30 or something. so it must be true.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys are being terribly corsi toward each other.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
.895
was his ES SV%, and you’re right… not stellar, but considering he was perfect in game one, his 2 game average is .931… which is decent.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you’re being obtuse.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course you do
you always think that… why change?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
why even bother
arguing the point with me for that matter?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t know buddy. I really don’t.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't
actually disagree with your point about the fact that it’s a very small sample and I can’t “extrapolate” beyond it… but I think you’re taking me to imply that I assume they’ll continue this way all season.
I don’t think that… I’m saying they’ve given up far too much so far, and need to improve. My extrapolation was just on a minutes played basis to illustrate how shit they’d been so far.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i would have actually taken your argument as valid if you HADN’T used the numbers to back it up. like i said, if the numbers hold up in a few weeks, i won’t disagree with your point either.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
My argument
was despite their productivity, the BKL line has been kinda shit from a possession stand point so far… I didn’t clearly articulate it obviously, but that’s all I am saying.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
again, i don’t think you can make that argument yet. i think we have to rely on points and on qualitative analyses at this point.
or why do it at all? why not just sit back and enjoy the ride for a few weeks. especially since we’re 2-0?
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
although I hadn’t looked at OZ% yet, and to some extent that explains the numbers.
30% OZ% for the BLK line seems strange. Wilson seems to be relying on them more defensively apparently.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
my issue
with your response is it involves both the whole sample size argument which you then confuse by saying he’s “looked” better in 2 games on the basis of an even SMALLER sample of individual efforts you’ve observed anecdotally.
Saying my stats analysis is bad for small samples and then arguing you think he’s better because you qualitatively assessed it on the basis of some goals and a few defensive stops strikes me as “obtuse” too… but I’m not of the opinion that you’re obtuse – you just have an axe to grind with anything I share… you’re far too consistent with it for me to think it’s much else.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t think i’ve confused anything. there are 2 types of things we can do to look at how a player is performing. (a) stats and (b) play. I’m saying because (a) is insufficient at this point, we need to focus on (b). Sure, (b) is just as small, but it may be a better predictor of long-term statistical performance than stats will be at this point because the numbers are going to be inherently unreliable.
And I do have an axe to grind with you, but not always. you made a point. I made a counterpoint.
i only have an axe to grind with you when I think you’re being unreasonable, which, especially when it comes to things I say, I think happens a lot. so it would appear to be a double-edged axe that we’re both grinding?
but this doesn’t have to be personal. so why should we make it so?
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Moonlighting!
You guys are like Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd on the tv.
Not saying who is who, here, just going to wait till the series finale.
"To be a Leafs fan is to know your heart will be broken in the end."
–Seamus Borschevsky
by Berezin's Spleen on Oct 10, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
read my second post. i meant qualitative.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What are the Corsi’s of other top offensive lines in the league.
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
give me a line
to compare with, because I’m not posting all of them.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant more of a rough average. Is the mean Corsi slightly positive or is it negative.
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
the mean
should be around zero… and for good players it’s generally positive.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
what’s the sedins, what’s ovechkin’s line and what’s datsyuk’s line just out of curiosity
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
or at least show me where to look it up. behindthenet? I don’t want to make you do all the work.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Sedins
you’ve got
D Sedin: +44.96
H Sedin: +38.41
Samuelsson: +40.81
Then on Detroit – I have no idea who is actually on Datsyuk’s line.
Datsyuk: +35.72
Zetterberg: +8.56
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
damn the sedins have big numbers.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
They also
start their shifts largely in the offensive zone, and play softer competition.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Offensive zone starts have a HUGE effect on Corsi stats. The difference between an OZ start and a DZ start is something like 50 shots per 60 minutes.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
which worries me
because I don’t think BLK is starting in the defensive zone a lot.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah
I take that back… and find this odd…
The OZ% for BLK is around 30% at ES… Grabo and Kulemin are around 41%, and Armstrong and Dupuis are both well above 50%…
Wilson is using his lines strangely so far.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
at
ES… roughly.. yeah.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
wait no
sorry… largely in the NZ, but not as often in the OZ as I would expect.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Aren’t Bozak and Steckel pretty much exclusively taking defensive zone faceoffs?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Pretty much
Defensive Zone Faceoffs:
Steckel 23/31 = 74.2%
Bozak 6/13 = 46.2%
Grabovski 5/8 = 62.5%
Offensive Zone Faceoffs:
Grabovski 7/11 = 63.6%
Bozak 1/10 = 10%
Steckel 3/7 = 42.9%
Wow we’ve taken a lot more defensive zone draws (56) than offensive zone ones (37).
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
That is false. They play pretty “tough” competition, if you want to look at QUALCOMP.
Top three guys on the Canucks last year:
Burrows
H Sedin
D Sedin
And they are all on the same line
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
I think zone starts have a bigger effect on Corsi stats than Qualcomp does, but I could be wrong.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I was replying to the “they play softer competition” part. They don’t
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
They don't?
Burrows was 4th last year, but the Sedin twins ranked 10th and 11th amongst the Canucks forwards that played over 60 games last year in terms of Corsi REL QoC.
I’d say that puts them on the bottom line from a competition perspecitive.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
oh and 12th
was Samuelsson… who plays with them more than Burrows does typically.
He was injured in the playoffs which is why he wasn’t on that line.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't honestly think
QualComp is a valid measure… because it’s just average plus/minus, and I don’t really think plus/minus is all that meaningful.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
And we can adjust Corsi for zone starts.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
that we can
I still don’t think it should end up being -50 as a result of 30% OZ starts.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Starting 70% of your shifts in the defensive zone is somewhere between “defensive hero” and “greatest two way forward of all time”.
If Kessel’s OZONE start is 30 you’ve solved his horrific Corsi.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
they don't
start 70% in the DZone.
They start 30% in the OZone…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You're missing
the Neutral Zone.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand how zone starts and subtraction work.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Subtraction at work
I understand ho w zone start s and subtraction work.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Oct 10, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dude Kessel has a 27.3% Ozone start and a 57.3% Ozone finish.
He’s an absolute fucking hero. Fuck Datsyuk and Bergeron.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Datsyuk last year:
47% Ostart, 53% Ofinish
Bergeron:
42.7 start 46.7 finish
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
...
6 OZ faceoffs, 14 DZ faceoffs, and 4 NZ faceoffs.
So yes more DZ starts… I do find this confusing frankly from Wilson’s perspective.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I Meanwhile in his head he’s singing “IF you want to be my lover” or something stupid like that. It’s written on his face.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I suspect it has more to do with Bozak. Bozak is better on the draw than anyone the Leafs have except Steckel. Wilson probably wants him taking DZ faceoffs so that he can win them and get the puck started in the right direction.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
the best defense is offense.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The best defense is being fucking incredible at ice hockey.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
so far
Grabovski’s face off numbers are far better than Bozak’s… so far.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t everybody sing this in their head?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Oct 10, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
D. Steckel: Ozone start (36.8).
HERO.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Add
in his FO% and yes… he’s a lot more important so far defensively.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
especially considering his OZ Finish is 68.8%
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If he can keep that up for an entire season (unlikely) he should win the Selke.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re renaming it the Steckel after this season.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You can't spell
Steckel, without the letters S e l K and E
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So I think I figured it out.
Phil Kessel REALLY likes that now goal song. it’s become a pavlovian response.
PHIL KESSELLL PUTS PUCK IN NET, HEARS HAPPY SONG YAAAAAAAAAAYYY
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
it’ll just go off in his head
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Oct 10, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
… we hope!
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He’ll be fine on the road, in fact random schedules of reinforcement (i.e. playing road and home games in no discernible pattern) are the most powerful reinforcing schedules in classical conditioning.
-"I'm not drinking and driving, I'm driving while I'm drinking....Right boys!?"
Lest we forget: Brett Lebda
by kudzupo on Oct 10, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jeez Flyers, way to try and pawn off damaged goods
@DNFlyers
Frank Seravalli
Betts said he was not surprised doctors found something in physical. “It’s been something that’s been giving me grief on a daily basis.”
He said he will spend the next few days trying to figure out if surgery is an option, wants to continue his career.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
Jeez Flyers, way to try and pawn off damaged goods
It’s not like they asked other teams to pick Betts off waivers.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
When you have an injured player you don’t send them to the minors, you put them on the IR.
Waivers was either an attempt to A) pawn him off or B) send him to the Phantoms.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Right they wanted him on the Phantoms…..which is why they waived him.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Why not just put him on the IR if he was hurt? That’s what every other team in the league does.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer says Betts passed #Flyers’ physical before being put on waivers.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Note to self, don’t use a Flyers physician.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Eric Lindros passed that same physical
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 10, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Eric also Lied about his health more than once to the training staff … heck .. if it wasnt for Keith Jones.. Lindros would be dead in a bathtub in Nashville with a punctured bleeding lung.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
LOL ~ I really think that they put Betts on Waivers knowing that he wouldn’t pass a team physical if picked up and would get sent back … Kinda a way to cheat the salarycap and player by roster deadline issue I think .. Of course I could be wrong. Betts is loved in Philly and in the organization … they want him to be healthy and be the 3rd line Defensive Centerman shutdown player.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
yeah I am expecting that as well. .. it could still happen
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
I don't think Betts is planned to be in their top 9
Top 9 will likely include: Briere, JVR, Giroux, Voracek, Hartnell, Jagr, Schenn, Talbot, and Simmonds. (not to mention Cotourier).
That includes 4 C’s in Briere, Giroux, Schenn, and Talbot.
Maybe they’d like him as their 4th C but I think they may be hoping that Talbot can do that.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was thinking that they probably would see if they could get Talbot to stretch himself and be that center as well. Talbot is more of an Agitator than a shut down defensive forward. If he can do it.. then Betts is on the outs. .. if not .. they need bets to shut down Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, Grabovski, Parise, Cammalleri, & Krejci.
a Healthy Betts is better at shutting them down and winning faceoffs with Talbot on the wing.
Or else you got Talbot on wing and Nodl at center or Talbot at center.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
OK so
we’ll revisit it after 10 games… then 20 games… and see which way the Corsi ON is trending… if it improves, great… if it’s the same as last year? who knows what that means… apparently we have to let the sample continue infinitely to conclude anything.
Kessel 2009-10 Corsi ON = 9.39 (playing predominantly with Bozak and Kulemin after Stajan and Ponikarovsky/Blake)
Kessel 2010-11 Corsi ON = -6.55 (playing predominantly with Bozak and Crabb… then adding in Lupul Corsi ON = -21.73)
Kessel 2011-12 Corsi ON = bad numbers so far.
I’m prepared to accept that Lupul might be the problem, as I think he’s kind of sucked defensively everywhere he’s played.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
repost
Corsi Rel Qoc:
Bozak: 10.196
Lupul: 5.6
Kessel: 4.752
Kulemin: 0.117
Frattin: -2.21
Grabovski: -3.57
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
problem
with Corsi REL in 2 games is half the games are against the Leafs so far… might as well just use Corsi QoC
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
oh nm
sorry… confusing myself with this… it’s more that the result you’re observing is driven by the Leafs themselves.
You don’t have enough other teams to factor into the average.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
the fact
that Grabovski Kulemin and Frattin are facing lower Corsi REL QoC is half because of how well they played against them…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
THAT
would be a situation where sample size is relevant to me…. because your data is skewed by the Leaf’s presence in the sample.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
ah, yes. the old double standard. nice to see you.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose
it’s a double standard… but you’re measuring two completely different things. In fact – if you could give me their corsi numbers in the games NOT against the Leafs, that’d be more useful to me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just saying
it’s a problem because the Leafs themselves are driving half your data… so comparing the Leafs using numbers they themselves caused 50% (roughly) of seems pointless.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I've actually
had this thought before, that including the team you’re looking at in the data for Corsi REL QoC is kind of unfortunate.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
if you could
measure Corsi REL QoC for games excluding the team you’re analyzing I’d think it’d be a better tool.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
15 GP to see something like 90% regression to the mean.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I'm fine with that
and I’d gladly see these first two games be anomalous…
we’ll see where it goes, but so far it concerns me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Lupul
was -21.73 last year, -3.51 the year before in Anaheim, -6.79 the year before that in Philly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
I’m angering my wife by not helping her prepare for TG dinner. bbl.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
don’t forget, Burtch: Happy wife, happy life.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
No wife, perfect life!
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Happy wife .. happy life
which leads to ..
Happy man at home .. happy wife to bo…………….
Eerrrr .. Something along those lines.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Well that was unexpected
@jonasTSN1050
Jonas Siegel
MacArthur has an elbow infection, but should be okay for tomorrow.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
Probably impetigo or something.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Or it could be Bursitis .. an inflammed Bursa Sac
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.
Sounds like Kadri is a lot closer to return than previously thought
@DavidAlter590
David Alter
MacArthur missed practice as he recovers from an infection. Kadri could be medically cleared to play as soon as the end of the week #leafs
I wonder if he’ll still go down to the Marlies for that supposed conditioning stint? It’d be fun to see him in the Marlies home opener on Sat.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
@Zeisberger
Mike Zeisberger
Wilson on Kadri, who practised: “The little bastard is coming back quicker than I’d been led to believe. We’ll figure something out.”
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hah, I wonder if Wilson wanted some more time to see how well Frattin plays before having to make a decision.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He wouldn’t need to go on a conditioning stint because he’s waiver exempt. We can just send him down for the hell of it.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Ya i meant “reassigned” to the Marlies until he’s back in gameshape or whatever.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh Tim
@jonasTSN1050
Jonas Siegel
Connolly told me he’s still not ready for contact. Plan today was light practice and bike ride.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Left practice after 45 minutes today. Bozak might be playing with Kessel for a while.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
3.0?
Coliacavo
Van Ryn
Connelly
Or does Van Ryn get a pass because of that fithly hit from behind?
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
Kadri ranked 21st in Top 50 prospects by Hockeysfuture
21. Nazem Kadri – C/W – Toronto Maple Leafs
Height: 6-0 Weight: 188
Entering his second pro season, Nazem Kadri was looking to impress the coaching staff enough to secure a spot in the Maple Leafs top-nine. The 21-year-old Kadri was in a heated battle with rookie Matt Frattin for the clubs vacant left-wing spot before an ill-timed MCL injury sidelined him for several months. Kadri’s injury may result in his season starting with the Marlies to get him up to game speed before he can push for a spot with the Maple Leafs again. He has shown his ability to lead a team offensively after finishing second on the Marlies in points having only played 44 games, but he still needs to fine tune his overall game. Kadri may never be a complete forward, but he’ll need to prove he’s able to score at the NHL level to offset his defensive weaknesses.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/13300/nazem_kadri21st_ranked_prospect_by_hockeys_future/
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
Typo?
Do they mean several weeks of injury?
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I believe the initial diagnosis was 2-4 weeks – it must have been a typo.
@muellercleez
by Muellercleez on Oct 10, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Interestingly
They have Cowen at 30. Seems like everyone but PPP regulars are pretty high on him.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 2:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cowen bashing is our God-given right as fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
by Self Destructive Zones on Oct 10, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
WHOA WE DON’T LIKE A SENS PROSPECT?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Hey guys maybe we’re not being objective in insulting our rivals.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Sensed
meatturnipsack
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Oct 10, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Rivals..
Doesn’t “Rival” mean that they would occasionally beat us when it counts?
@muellercleez
by Muellercleez on Oct 10, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know who the Senators are taking with the next pick, but he already sucks.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Oct 10, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hahaha. Fair enough.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 3:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is this the guy you want? You can have him. But we’ll laugh at him.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So now that advanced stats have settled this I think it’s pretty clear Kessel’s winning the Hart and the Selke. My work here is done.
* puts on cowboy hat, rides into sunset *
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 10, 2011 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
It’s about time. The lazy bastard.
by Self Destructive Zones on Oct 10, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
you weren’t the lone ranger on that though. we were more like the Young Guns.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You wearing a cowboy hat is a pretty funny mental image
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Give me a pic of that and I’ll draw it. It would follow nicely after Chemmy’s crazy goalie mask in last year’s PPPCS.
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait a minute
I’m happy to say he’s starting in his own zone and his zone finish is good, but he’s still surrendering a lot of shots.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
it’ll be interesting to see if the Corsi number shifts when the Zone Starts and FInishes do… because I’m guessing they will.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Oct 10, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Welp here’s my good deed for the week
https://twitter.com/#!/PippaMann/status/123483238864912384
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Based on the first two games, that projects at 50% for the whole season! I don’t have his # of shots on net stats from the past couple of season on hand, but I bet that projects to a boatload of goals!
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s conservatively like 150+ goals.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoaaaaaaa baby! Yes please!
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
UP YOURS GRETZKY
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 10, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That oughta shut the haters up.
Accused bandwagon jumper.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
“Even though Phil Kessel had a 150 goal season, he was too much of a defensive liability. He’s a really one-dimensional player.”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
“Unfortunately the Maple Leafs sweep of the Cup Finals was marred by having to win game 2 in overtime.”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Oct 10, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
“The Maple Leafs, being in first place, had an easy road to the Finals. In addition, sweeping the first 3 rounds meant they were well-rested and healthy, unlike their competition.”
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
“And as time is about to expire, it looks like the Leafs will win this year’s Stanley Cup. But after the franchise’s lengthy cup drought and nearly a decade of missing the playoffs, are the Leafs going to be able to build win next year’s Cup, and build the Cup Dynasty that they really need to?”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Oct 10, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“But seriously Craig I’m not convinced that all of these guys are first ballot hall of famers. A few of them might not get in until their second or third ballot.”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
“Brian Burke’s record is spotty. Sure, they won a Cup. But it took him 4 years! And most of the players on the team weren’t even drafted by Burke!”
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
“Sure, Kessel won the Hart and Ted Lindsay trophies, but Grabovski only came in second place for both categories.”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
“Personally I feel like an elite player would have scored the two more goals necessary to get to an even 200.”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
“Credit where credit is due. I don’t think he could’ve pulled this off without the elite passing of (looks at roster) Colton Orr for that one game they accidentally took a shift together.”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
St Louis is slaughtering the 2007 Maple leafs! Errr I mean the Flames…
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 4:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i thought it was kipper in net for calgary but it was their backup.
anyone know why phoenix traded montaya to the islanders ?
Because Phoenix (along with moat of the world) had lost faith in Montoya due to his poor AHL play. Then he got to NYI and played well in the N (weird thing is he has played well in the NHL before).
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 4:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They had Bryzgalov, duh.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 10, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
well yes but were they expecting bryz to resign with a low payday?
And we know phoenix goaltending situation now so the question.
As I said above have a look at his AHL stats. They were really bad. He used to be considered a top prospect but after a few years of poor performance was forgotten and traded to a team with goaltending injuries for scraps. He then took that opportunity and (surprising basically everyone) ran with it.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
by BCapp on Oct 10, 2011 4:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He’s played surprisingly well late last year + early this year, but I suspect the God Of Small Sample Sizes will catch up with him eventually.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Montoya’s best SVP in the AHL was .914, and that was years ago. He struggled to break .905 ever since.
So they moved him without seeing how he would do in the NHL, and brought in Mike Smith to play ahead of Jason Labarbarra. Right.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Send him down
He needs the practice and 20+ minutes a game, and the realization that you can’t take a shift off or lightly.
Tap the McKegg. TAP IT!
@erieotters
Erie Otters
Otters’ Greg McKegg Named OHL Player of the Week tinyurl.com/3mhpzoa
http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/article/otters-greg-mckegg-named-ohl-player-of-the-week
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
But he was only the secon dbest player in the game!
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Greg McKegg will be the best name in the NHL eventually. Is there a better one?
by jd90 on Oct 10, 2011 10:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Question for anyone with NHL Gamecentre Live:
I just signed up for it. I’ve got my PS3 and my PC both hooked up to the same screen. Will I get better quality sound/video out of one or the other, or will it be the same since the screen will be the same regardless?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
It’ll vary slightly if one has a better connection to your internet versus the other. That being said, I’ve found that my PS3 streams better than my PC.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
I would think the audio maybe slightly better on the PS3 as well, depending on how the audio is hooked up to your TV/stereo.
by Nigel Cadbury on Oct 10, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Both are hooked up to the same sound system and screen, the only possible difference would be if the streaming technology was better on PS3 or PC.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I know I’m gonna piss some people off but anyone else think people read into the advanced stats a little too much? I’m not trying to go all do you even watch the games here but I can’t help but notice obviously MGK is the best line and the Kessel line is a damn good offensive line. I dunno but they seem to just point out the obvious things that you notice while watching a game. Also Komisarek sucks
by jd90 on Oct 10, 2011 10:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
People who know a lot more about math than I do seem to find them useful. I personally do not find them useful at all. They don’t seem to increase my enjoyment of the game, or my understanding of it. In practice they seem to just cause a lot of arguments for which there is no clear winner. One person presents an advanced stat that says one thing, the other person presents and advanced stat that says the opposite, the first person finds a reason why the second person’s advanced stat is wrong or does not apply, the second person retorts with a similar accusation… this goes on and on, eventually sample size or outliers or regression to the mean gets brought up, accusations of not watching the game come up… I just tune out when these kinds of arguments arise here. I’m content with watching the games, cheering for the Leafs, and talking with other people who have interesting opinions about the Leafs. I find voicing an opinion and then getting shouted down with a mountain of advanced statistics to be rather discouraging. Perhaps this is just my background in history, where interpretation is highly valued and “objective” is a dirty word, but I have no interest in breaking the game down to the point that it is all numbers and no lived sensation.
Riding the Leafs bandwagon since 1991.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I have no interest in breaking the game down to the point that it is all numbers and no lived sensation.
Ah yes, because that’s what we’re attempting to do here.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Thats just Burtch. Don’t judge all users of advanced stats by Burtch. He was going nuts trying ot make stuff up from 2 games.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
i know who burtch is i know just about every regular on here, and these advanced stat arguments are getting quite tiresome
To this I say the same thing I do every time someone has a problem with a topic or a disucssion on this site: Skip it. Just don’t read that thread, read another one. Its a big site, no one is making you read everything (or anything for that matter). I for one skip plenty of stuff. For example I skip all of the baseball talk, a fair bit of the music stuff, the wrestling stuff, etc.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Yeah it’s fair to those that want to use advanced stats and they actually do seem fairly interesting, however I’m not the kind of guy who wants to hear about them all the time.
Whenever I see Corsi, I just hit Z
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
Twitter me this.
Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Oct 11, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
to be fair, i was trying NOT to use numbers.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Oct 10, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know who the “we” you are referring to is… you and Burtch?
I’m not suggesting that this blog is trying to break the game down to that level. I’m simply commenting on my feelings about advanced statistics and the arguments that arrive from them. I wouldn’t be a member and regular visitor to this site if its purpose was solely to have advanced stats-based arguments.
Riding the Leafs bandwagon since 1991.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
*arise, not arrive
Riding the Leafs bandwagon since 1991.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
some people seem like they couldn’t give two shits of excitement about whether we win or lose but how badly we got outcorsi’d outfenwick’d and outzonestarted. Just my observation.
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 11, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Heheh
Perhaps this is just my background in history, where interpretation is highly valued and "objective" is a dirty word
Its the opposite in science, we strive for objectivity.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
We’re taught that anyone claiming to be objective, or claiming to have achieved something close to objectivity, is not to be trusted. Obviously historians and scientists/doctors use very different types of information in their fields, and the definitions of what constitutes “fact” are quite different. I find it fascinating.
Riding the Leafs bandwagon since 1991.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I would also argue that advanced stats don’t get you much closer to objectivity. Look at all the arguments over them… the formula to come up with advanced stats is a created thing, and the interpretation once the formula is applied to data is somewhat subjective.
Riding the Leafs bandwagon since 1991.
Check out my art!
by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Many of the advanced stats are compared against traditional stats in validation studies. But mostly they are not meant to be used in isolation. Part of a greater whole.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Well it appears that they are in fact, being used in isolation. So are you saying they are being improperly used?
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
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Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Oct 11, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I have two history degrees and I’m as into the advanced stats as anyone here.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Oct 10, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I took Stats in second year university and got an A in it, and swore that was the last time I’d ever use a formula. I’m working on my master’s in history right now. Just out of curiosity, what is your area of interest in history?
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by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 11, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Foreign relations is what I wrote my MA on.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Oct 11, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Foreign relations eh….
/blank stare
I haven’t locked down a thesis yet, but I know that it will be something to do with Canadian history, Great War or World War Two. I’m particularly interested in soldier experience (combat and at home) as well as propaganda.
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by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 11, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
if you need first hand accounts of non-canadian stuff about ww2 let me know. I donno how it could help but i’m just throwing it out there
October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin
by Chuck Diesel on Oct 11, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind!
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by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 11, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Though the history I did was often pretty numerically inclined.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Oct 11, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
As far as I am concerned...
Advanced stats should be used as a way to quantify things you see players doing in a game that you can’t easily prove other than just by saying “just watch the game”.
Obviously using advanced stats as a crutch is stupid, but there is nothing wrong with using an advanced stat to back up things that you otherwise may not be able to quantify.
Advanced Stats are okay
But charts, charts are always hotness
Why? Because they’re easy to understand. MOAR CHARTS COMING TO BREAKING THE LULL
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by nhlcheapshot on Oct 11, 2011 5:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno but they seem to just point out the obvious things that you notice while watching a game.
Now try and take that “seen ’em good” and make it into a quantifiable statement. That’s all advanced stats, and really stats in general, are trying to do; quantify what the eye is telling us. Using advanced stats let’s us have conversations and debates on things beyond just “Well I believe this” versus “Well I believe that”.
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I know where you're coming from, but
Some of the advanced stats are nice when you know how to use them and sometimes they are just using fancy words for simple concepts.
For example the best of the “advanced stats” is actually a great concept: corsi. Corsi is what I would call +/- for shots. Instead of looking at goals it looks at shots…
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I think I understand for the most part what they mean and I understand why alotta people really like using them to compare players etc. I just think sometimes the arguments over them are really pointless. Also one thing I don’t like is how all players shots on net are considered equal unless I’m wrong on that. Like a Mike Brown shot on net shouldn’t really be valued the same as a Kessel shot on net. I don’t really know a ton about the advanced stats so I could be wrong
by jd90 on Oct 11, 2011 3:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I like advanced stats as a means to confirm what I am seeing with my eyes. You should never discredit one or the other.
You should never discredit one or the other.
False. Sometimes the stats tell you the opposite of what you see and you have to discredit one or the other.
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by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
They definitely have their use. The human eye (and brain) is subject to many biases. For example the “Kaberle never shoots”. This can be disproven with a simple stat (shots) of which he has been top 5 or 10 (I don’t rmember) for a D-man in every year recently.
The thing is these biases happen all the time for example some people believe that a defenseman plays against really soft competition. Well its hard to know that. You can look at his total time on ice and thats useful, but a good coach can give a defenseman a lot of easy minutes. The only way to judge the quality of a players components is using an “advanced stat”.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
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Or of course
To track every single forward a player plays against and then compare it to a bunch of other defensemans to see if it is easy or hard.
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Another great use of simple statistics
Is turnovers. You talk to fans of any team and they’ll point to 2 or 3 of their defenseman as turnover machines. More often then not the defenseman is in fact, NOT a turn over machine. They probably just made a handful of bad ones early in their career on that team and got a reputation. Once they had that reputation, the fans expected them to make turnovers, so when they made the couple turnovers per game that EVERY defender makes the fan notices it… (Its a simple cognitive bias the same reason that people with bad joints think they can predict bad weather…)
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
The “Kaberle never shoots” and “turnover machine” misperceptions are very easily exposed using counting stats. You put together a list with the top 10 shooters in the league, showing Kaberle as one of them, or you look up the number of turnovers a player has, and it is apparent that the perception was incorrect. The only room for argument is the collection of the data, which is another matter entirely. In my opinion the quality of opponent problem is much different. To use statistics to evaluate that you must come up with a formula, for which you determine the parameters, set the variables, decide which information is relevant and which will be ignored, etc. It will probably take “tweaking” to get your advanced stat to produce the result you think it should. Even if you think you’ve got it correct, other people might disagree. They might have other formulas, or other versions of yours. I don’t think that this kind of statistic gives the same kind of closure to an argument as one that relies on the more basic counting stats.
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by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess that is my problem with them. They are masqueraded by many people under the banner of objectivity or something close to it, but when you break them down they are still subjective measures of things that are not easily quantified.
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by CanadianMaple09 on Oct 10, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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