The Other Guys: SHOOOOOOOOOOOT v2.0
A week off between Maple Leafs games to start the season - while probably good for the recovery of the injured players - is hell for the fans. Hopefully some charts can ease the pain.
John-Michael Liles, a 5th round pick by the Avalanche in the 2000 NHL entry draft, has often been described as "Tomas Kaberle lite" - he replaced Kaberle's spot as Schenn's most probable defense partner, plays a similar offensive style of hockey, and is equally as "untruculent" in terms of throwing his body around. The fact that the Leafs traded for Liles with the conditional 2nd round pick acquired from Boston in the Kaberle trade only serves to draw further parallels:
Kaberle and Liles nearly matched each other in points and in overall cap value this past season. Liles will enter the final year of his four-year, $16.8 million contract this fall before he’s slated to become an unrestricted free agent next summer. He contributed $4.2 million to Colorado’s cap, while Kaberle’s championship year came at a cost of $4.25 million.
Age is the primary difference between the two, with the 30-year-old Liles three years younger than Kaberle. But Liles’ comparative youth isn’t exactly filled with exuberance and strong, healthy bones. While nowhere near the level of the league’s upper echelon of glass men, Liles has still missed 37 games over his last three seasons due to a delightful cornucopia of injuries (broken foot, bruised left shoulder, concussion, wrist injury).
The Kaberle comparisons have been done to death, so let's compare Liles to an offensive D-man from Liles' old division - Marek Zidlicky. Originally a 7th round pick in the 2001 NHL draft by the New York Rangers, Zidlicky spent a number of years in the Finnish league SM-liiga when he couldn't come to contract terms with the Rangers. After a trade to Nashville, Zidlicky quickly found success with a 53 point season playing all 82 games. Since the lockout, Zidlicky has been one of the most consistent 40+ point offensive dmen in the league until a series of injuries (groin, lower-body, undisclosed, shoulder, hamstring) made him miss 36 games last season.
Both players have been core to their respective teams' powerplay and offensive production from the blueline - but who will have the better 2011/2012 season?
How they compare over their last 500 games played:
| Player | Age | Cap Hit | ATOI | S/60 | G/60 | Pts/60 | Sh% |
| J.M. Liles | 31 | $4.2M | 19.45 | 5.77 | 0.41 | 1.67 | 5.7% |
| Marek Zidlicky | 34 | $4.0M | 21.24 | 4.51 | 0.35 | 1.59 | 6.1% |
Liles is on an expiring contract while Zidlicky is signed through 2012/2013, and Liles clearly has the age advantage, being 3 years younger (despite being drafted a year earlier!). Let's dig a little deeper into each of the stats over the last 500 games.
Average Time-on-Ice per game:
Zidlicky gets the TOI advantage, and for a good chunk of games was seeing Phaneuf-type ice-time. Liles on the other hand has consistently been increasing his TOI as he progressed, with a strange startling drop followed by a rapid increase to his current level. If how he's started this season with the Leafs is any indication on his expected ice-time going forward, we can expect 22 mins+ per night.
Shots on Goal per 60 minutes:
J.M. Liles is a model of consistency when it comes to shooting the puck on net - over the last 500 played games, he has hardly deviated from the average. Zidlicky however has seen a sharp drop in his shots over the last 75 or so games played, which possibly at least partially due to his multiple injuries.
Goals per 60 minutes:
While Liles gets the edge in goal production, it looks like a good portion of that advantage came several seasons ago. In more recent seasons, the goal-scoring has been fairly similar. The sharp dropoff in goals for Liles represents a slump with Colorado, which may have ultimately been a reason Liles was available for trade.
Points per 60 minutes:
Much like G/60, Liles gets the slight advantage over the last 500 games played in point-production. Zidlicky seems to have settled into a long-term point-production plateau around the 1.5 P/60 mark, while much like his goal-scoring, Liles has been in a relative slump.
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Is it too late to change the poll options? Nobody has voted yet.
I wanted to write-in that I’d like to see the Hot Pocket replace the Eggo Waffle as the tasty treat of choice in Blue&White land.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Oct 13, 2011 11:33 PM EDT reply actions
Alright I kind of realized there's no way anyone is going to vote for Zidlicky, but he's a closer comparable than Kaberle
Aw screw it, I did the Liles vs Kaberle charts too for shit and giggles
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
ATOI

No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 5:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Shots

No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
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by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Goals

No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Points

No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Kaberle was once averaging 29 minutes per night??
Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Almost 29 mins a night, and yup.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
According to my rating system, Liles is better than both Kaberle (equal offensively, better defensively) and Zidlicky (better offensively and defensively).
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Ya, after looking at the numbers above (and in the spreadsheets used to create them) I'd have to agree (offensively at least, I don't really look at defense).
I really like how consistently he shoots as well. I think him paired with Phaneuf has a good chance of creating a potent #1 PP unit where both blueliners shoot often.
Whether they both get caught pinching leading to shorthanded rushes is an entirely different issue though.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Your analysis is clearly incomplete
Number of songs on youtube about you: Kaberle – 1 Liles – 0
Makes cross-ice passes like you: Kaberle- Won’t Believe Liles – Believe
Career Head-fakes to shake off a forechecker: Kaberle – ~10,000 Liles – ~10
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
by daoust on Oct 14, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I miss the beautiful headfakes so much
Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
by Chris Stoikoff on Oct 14, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Zidlicky gets shut out.
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
Shutout denied.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Liles has come across as a genuine nice guy since his arrival in TO. Showing up early and visiting Sick Kids gets a big plus. Good character to have around the younger players. If he has a big season I wouldn’t mind seeing him resigned for 2-3 more yrs even though fans here are ready to trade or toss him already
WORD to yo Momma
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Oct 14, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions
even though fans here are ready to trade or toss him already
That’s a little unfair, don’t you think? If he maintains this level, he’ll probably require 4.5M-$5M on a long-term deal in UFA, and that’s cap space we don’t have unless we can get ourselves out from the Komisarek contract.
His cap space will also likely be used for Kulemin/Grabovski raises. His usefulness is hoping to be a stopgap until Gardiner is ready – if Gardiner IS ready by the deadline, it’s worth shopping him for a pick or two instead of letting him walk no?
Liles is my favourite offseason acquisition, and I’m not saying it can’t happen, but Burke would have to make a few moves in order to keep him after this year.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Everything I keep seeing is the same. He is a stop gap. A temporary piece. Let the season play out before shipping him off or letting him walk. He might become an indispensable piece of the puzzle.
WORD to yo Momma
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Oct 14, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Honest I’d love him to be.
I just don’t know if the logistics of that work out. Burke can change everything with a trade though.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
dont forget
He looks like Alistair from Dragon age:

by theninjagreg on Oct 14, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
because I’ve been playing Dragon Age non-stop for the last two weeks.
Here's my attempt at a witty sig. Didn't really go so well, methinks.
Wise men wonder, while strong men die.
If you ate this Thanksgiving, thank your local turkey farmer.
Avs fan here...
Liles was a fan favorite from the start. He’s amazing to his fans, always generous with his time. He’s a heart and soul, character guy. I hated seeing him go; it wouldn’t have happened if we didn’t have Tyson Barrie and Stefan Elliott warming up in the AHL. Both are going to be dominate offensive d-men. There just wasn’t room for Liles. I hope the Leafs re-sign him; he’s worth it.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: a mean, junkyard dog looking for revenge
by Cheryl Bradley on Oct 14, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Just like COL, after this season we may not have an opening/cap space for what he’ll cost on the open market.
I hope I’m wrong, but it will take some finagling.
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Oct 14, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I still can’t believe he only cost a 2nd rounder. He really does seem to be worth more than that.
by Mirinov's Nose on Oct 14, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
3 months of Kaberle for Colborne, 1 yr of Liles and Biggs. Can we make a trade like that every deadline, please
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Oct 14, 2011 7:38 PM EDT reply actions

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