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Measuring Puck Possession - Leafs vs Coyotes

Corsi_and_miller_medium

Among the advanced hockey stats that have gained traction in recent years, particularly among hockey bloggers, Corsi (or shot +/-) is probably the most frequently used. The idea behind using Corsi is that it's a good proxy for possession time, which is something that the NHL doesn't currently track. In order to try and test this out, I decided that for the Toronto Maple Leafs game last night against the Phoenix Coyotes, I'd track puck possession and see what the results looked like. If you want to know how I did it and what the results were, then follow me past the jump.

Star-divide

The first question that you probably have is what exactly I did, so here's an explanation: I decided that I would track how long each time had possession of the puck in the offensive zone. Because it would be virtually impossible to track each minor puck movement, I decided to use a bit of a simplified measure - I counted the beginning of an offensive zone possession as the time at which the attacking team first gained clear possession of the puck once it was in the offensive zone, and I counted the end of the possession as the time at which either the puck left the zone, or the defence was in clear control of the puck and not under significant pressure from a forechecker. Obviously there's some subjectivity involved in that, but given how quickly the game moves I think that was a good compromise between good data collection and mental sanity. As I discovered while recording time on attack, even that somewhat loose definition of a possession can be difficult to track in real-time, but I think the results I've gathered are on the whole pretty reliable.

First I'm going to take a look at overall time on attack in each given period, before breaking things down into a bit more detail.


Toronto Phoenix
1st Period 03:48 02:53
2nd Period 06:07 03:13
3rd Period 03:31 03:03
Total 13:26 09:09

On the basis of time on attack, Toronto was clearly the better team. The worst period for the Leafs, the 3rd, was better than even the best period for the Coyotes. Toronto had a decent advantage in the first period and a huge advantage in the second period, before a roughly even third period. On the whole, the Leafs had a territorial advantage of over four minutes during regulation. I'm leaving out OT data for now so that these numbers can serve as a comparison for non-OT games in the future, but I'll include some OT numbers before concluding.

One thing that I realised while tracking this data was that there are a pretty large number of shifts where the team has the puck in the offensive zone, but nothing really happens. Generally these shifts last only a few seconds, such as when a player skates into the zone with the puck, throws it behind the net when pressured by a defender, and then loses possession as a defender safely passes the puck out of the zone. In order to see how that affected things, I counted up the number of attacking shifts that each team had that ran for at least 10 seconds, which seemed like roughly the amount of time where a team has clearly got control of the puck (though not always).


Toronto Phoenix
1st Period 11 7
2nd Period 12 6
3rd Period 9 9
Total 32 22

While I thought these numbers might tell us something that the standard time on attack data doesn't, it turns out that I was wrong. This data more or less matches up with the data presented above, and the ratio is only 1% different, so they're pretty much identical.

The big question that's left to answer is how closely these numbers line up with the Corsi numbers, so here's a comparison of the time on attack (TOA) ratio to the Corsi ratio. I'm going to throw the Fenwick ratio in there too, as another point of comparison (Fenwick is like Corsi, but unlike Corsi it doesn't include blocked shots). These numbers include over-time, where as it happens the Coyotes had just a 3 second territorial advantage.

TOA 0.584
Corsi 0.548
Fenwick 0.516

The end result is more or less what Corsi proponents would argue - the numbers are very similar. The difference between Corsi and the time on attack is pretty small. The difference between TOA and Fenwick is a bit bigger. On the basis of this particular game, it seems like the claim that Corsi is a good proxy for puck possession has some weight to it.

Clearly since this is only one game's worth of data, the data set is very small, but I think what I've collected here is pretty interesting, and I'll keep doing it for the next few games to see if any of the information presented here is confirmed or contradicted, and if any other interesting details emerge.

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Leafs Vs. Coyotes

Nov 2011 by JP Nikota - 170 comments

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This didn’t really fit in with what I was examining in the main piece up above, but I tracked time in the attacking zone on the powerplay as well, so here are the results for anyone who’s interested:

On the Leafs’ first PP they had control of the puck in the Coyotes’ zone for 51 seconds. On the second PP they had the puck in the Coyotes’ zone for 0:38 out of a possible 1:27. The Leafs spent 43% of all possible PP time in the Coyotes’ zone.

On the Coyotes’ first PP they had control of the puck in the Leafs’ zone for 52 seconds. On the second PP they had the puck in the Leafs’ zone for 1:16. The Coyotes spent 53% of all possible PP time in the Leafs’ zone.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Nov 16, 2011 6:54 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Really nice article. I’m guessing that over a large sample size that the correlation is even stronger. Great read.

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by Andrew Berkshire on Nov 16, 2011 6:58 PM EST reply actions  

Erm, 0.9 is the correlation with zone time; this is the smaller slice zone-time-with-possession, but I’d guess the correlation would be even stronger there (since it’s tough to get shots during zone-time-without-possession).

by Eric T. on Nov 16, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh, I didn’t realise the NHL used to track that info. Curious that they don’t anymore (or at least don’t share it publically).

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Nov 16, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I would guess that the PA considered it just far too subjective to be allowed to be tracked since those are the stats that are used in arbitration. It would sure put a dent in a case for a defensive player, for example, that was getting buried in time of possession.

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by PPP on Nov 16, 2011 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I could be wrong, but it looks like the data was only available on a team based level, so I don’t think that’s it.

As an aside, since I wrote down all the individual possession times, if someone was feeling really enterprising I could send them my spreadsheet and they could go through the game log to find individual player TOA. That would probably take quite a while, though.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 16, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone needs to build a web page with videos of the games and time line trackers underneath that people can use in an open source way (like Wikipedia) to track who is in possession where, with which players doing what. If you could build this, then thousands of regular fans could watch through games and add info / correct each other, and the database it would build would just be truly awesome.

The only problems you’d have to solve would be needing a whole lot of web-hosting and database bandwidth, some programming skills… oh, and legal license to put the games on the internet. Which i’m guessing would be the actual killer

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by Wan Ihite on Nov 17, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Great read!

Very cool that someone is making sure it the two line up well.

I’m not positive, but pretty sure those time on ice scripts are active during the games also. You may be able to get period by period comparisons that way to speed along your sample size.

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by Keith Quinn on Nov 16, 2011 7:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Great read as always Drag, though I have no idea what to do with this info lol

When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.

by SPERO on Nov 16, 2011 7:50 PM EST reply actions  

Did you even watch the game to record these statistics?

by theninjagreg on Nov 16, 2011 8:28 PM EST reply actions  

Nice job. Its been looked at before like Eric said but testing hypotheses/assumptions is crucial part of the scientific method.

by Stephan Cooper on Nov 16, 2011 9:20 PM EST reply actions  

Good job man!

are you going to be doing this regularly? might take a lot of time if you did with some volunteers you could do shift work

@phoking_awesome

by pho king awesome on Nov 16, 2011 9:27 PM EST reply actions  

I’m hoping to do it for maybe 10 games and see from there if it looks like it’s worth continuing. I’m not sure if I’ll literally be able to do it for every game, since I need a reliable stream to be able to track it (and since not every game is on Gamecentre or CBC.ca, that’s not always possible).

As for the amount of time, it basically takes as long as the game. I just mark down possession times as the game is ongoing, then I do some tabulation at intermission.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 16, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i meant watching every single game. give a few people 2-3 games you can’t do should be able to cover them all

@phoking_awesome

by pho king awesome on Nov 16, 2011 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

stats suck you suck

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by Chemmy on Nov 17, 2011 12:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I don’t understand the picture

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Nov 17, 2011 12:13 AM EST reply actions  

I didn’t put it there, but I’m assuming it’s because Corsi was named after old Buffalo Sabres goaltending coach Jim Corsi.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 17, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Which makes me post the obligatory

FUCK BUFFALO

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

At least we can thank NJ last night for keeping them even with the Leafs in points, now it TO’s turn tonight to turn it on and retake 1st place… pretty please?!?

by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 17, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

right on

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Nov 17, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I needed a picture.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Nov 17, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Great work!

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Nov 17, 2011 12:26 AM EST reply actions  

I’m eager to see the stats on the next few games. Really good work.

An off topic comment – I really like Scribbles in interviews, once Reimer comes back it’s going to be like having the choir boys out there. When asked about his expectations coming into the NHL his response was I never expected to be here. Reminds of Reimer.
/Sigh, Reimer

by Dan Thompson on Nov 17, 2011 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

I only did a period of it, but I started to do the same thing for the NYR-CAR game. I tracked full zone time, possession or not, which yes, was a giant PITA. I came up with 61% Corsi to 57% zone time.

In a tremendously small sample, but I thought that was plenty close to confirm that Corsi/Zone Time still have a strong correlation.

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by George E. Ays on Nov 17, 2011 8:57 AM EST reply actions  

wait, since when has Eugene levy been Ryan Millers goalie coach?

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by JaredFromLondon on Nov 17, 2011 9:00 AM EST reply actions  

Damn you for beating me to posting that. It’s uncanny, isn’t it? It’s clearly just Levy with a fake mustache.

by Peter Lynn on Nov 17, 2011 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I was gonna go more with Geraldo, but hey, that works too.

by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 17, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome stuff, super interesting. I’m sure it’s time consuming as all hell, but if you have the nerve to track more, will read again.

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-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 17, 2011 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

This is interesting. I’d imagine, though, that what would be most fruitful (more so than looking at either Corsi or possession time in isolation) would be to look at how much the two differ. That is, how effective are the Leafs with the time on attack they have?

In examining the difference, a higher CORSI ratio than TOA ratio would mean that the Leafs were better at using their TOA to generate shots (and, by extension, scoring chances) than the competition, where a lower CORSI ratio would mean the opposite.

In doing this, we eliminate the need to use CORSI as a proxy, and can take it at face value. For two teams that were equally good (that night) at turning TOA into shots on goal, we’d expect their CORSI ratio and TOA ratio to be the same. A divergence from that would tell us about how effective the respective teams’ attacks were. The fact that teams aren’t equally good at turning puck possession into shots is one problem with using CORSI as a proxy for possession. But if we could compare CORSI numbers with TOA numbers, using CORSI can tell us a lot more.

(It is occurring to me now that one might want to differentiate between offense and defense, and directly compare shots for with TOA and shots against with opponent’s TOA. The point stands, I think, that tracking TOA makes shot differential much more informative, and that rather than supplant CORSI as a better measure of puck possession, TOA can be used with it to tell us more about a team’s efficiency on either offense or defense.)

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by The Bag on Nov 17, 2011 6:15 PM EST reply actions  

Well I hope you took a nap after compiling all of those stats, as there’s decent body of work represented here, Drag. It would be interesting to track puck possession stats for one of the elite teams (maybe Chicago), and see if there’s some sort of correlation with success, or if it’s just another one of those statistical anomalies. Well done!

by Flexusjeen on Nov 17, 2011 7:19 PM EST reply actions  

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