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MacArthur The Elite Scorer?

Reflect back to the start of last season.  Think back to when Clarke MacArthur first showed up in Leaf land, fresh from signing a one year, $1.1 million dollar contract that was a $300 K reduction from his previous contract.  

MacArthur had gone to arbitration as an RFA with the Atlanta Thrashers, having just finished a 2009-10 NHL campaign that saw him post 16 goals and 35 points in 81 games. He went in with the mindset that if he and his agent expected the arbitrator to come up with a reasonable number, he'd have to high ball the team, who would then low ball them back, and end up somewhere in the middle.  Unfortunately the gamble didn't work - at least not exactly.  The Thrashers (and current Leafs Director of Player Personnel Rick Dudley - then Thrashers GM) walked away from MacArthur's arbitration without tabling an offer, making the young winger an unrestricted free agent.

Star-divide

MacArthur's time in Atlanta was far from spectacular.  He only posted 3 goals and 9 points in 21 games, despite seeing an increase in ice time to an average of 15:37 per night.  His shots per game dipped after the trade as he struggled to find his footing, and as he has said many times to the press, if he's not shooting he's not playing his game.  You can hardly blame Atlanta for not bothering to pick up the tab.

Fast forward to last season, mid year. MacArthur has somehow become a key component of a line that features to ex-Soviet players in centre Mikhail Grabovski of Belarus and winger Nikolai Kulemin.  The two Europeans are noted for their work ethic, attention to detail, and they often seem to play as if they share a brain.  In reality they welcomed Clarke into the fold, and made every effort to mesh with him.  The trio speak only English on the ice together, and all three play their way to career years in 2010-11.  Frankly they turned out to be the Leafs top line last season.

MacArthur was considered by many to be the lucky benefactor of providence in landing with the break out duo.  He rode their coat-tails it was said, to producing a 21 goal 62 point season.  Never mind the fact that of the three players he had the highest point total. Let's ignore the fact that he had the most NHL games played of the three, or the fact that his career 14.47% shooting percentage was the best of the group to boot or his 44 career goals (Grabovski had 33, Kulemin 31, entering last season).

Let's ignore all of that for a second because reality is Grabovski and Kulemin had 59 of the line's 80 goals... of course, we might want to remember that MacArthur had 30 first assists last year.

Of MacArthur's 62 points in 2010-11, 51 of them were either goals or first assists (82.2%).  For Grabovski the total was 48 of his 58 points (82.7%), and for Kulemin it was 39 of his 57 points (68%).  From the looks of those numbers, I'd say it makes more sense to argue that Kulemin was the passenger offensively rather than MacArthur, although I wouldn't argue that because of how industrious and effective Kulemin is defensively and along the boards.

So at this stage, I think it's fair to say MacArthur was relatively important to the production of the MGK line last year.  I personally think he deserved the two year $3.25 mill contract he signed in the off-season, and so far this year his numbers are again backing that up.  After his most recent goal, MacArthur now has 9 goals on 27 shots for 33.3% shooting.  Obviously that won't continue all season, but it's pretty amazing production frankly.  Should we expect that kind of production with regularity out of him these days? Most would say no, and I'd agree if MacArthur continues to only see 14:34 in average ice time, but this is where I would preach caution.

MacArthur is one of five Leaf regulars who is currently over 2.10 points per 60 minutes at 5v5 play.  A couple of seasons ago, Tom Awad wrote a lengthy series of pieces that used 2.10 pts/60 as a benchmark for a top line forward.  Right now MacArthur is sitting at 2.43 pts/60, and he's producing WITHOUT Mikhail Grabovski or Nikolai Kulemin riding shot gun.  He's got Tim Connolly (another player he's familiar with via his time in Buffalo) to help him, and that seems to be working just fine.  A pass first center could do wonders for his goal totals, but there's more to it than that.

Clarke MacArthur is an excellent shooter.  Not good, not just above average, excellent.  How can I say that? Well, read this list of names and think to yourself on whether or not you'd call them all "excellent" shooters:

Player G SA Act SH% Exp SH% Delta
I. Kovalchuk 150 1509 9.9 5.7 4.2
S. Stamkos 111 1036 10.7 7.2 3.5
A. Semin 124 1268 9.8 7.1 2.7
D. Alfredsson 86 883 9.7 7.1 2.7
S. Crosby 135 1135 11.9 9.4 2.5
A. Burrows 92 870 10.6 8.2 2.4
C. Stewart 61 598 10.2 8.0 2.2
M. Hejduk 94 897 10.5 8.3 2.2
B. Ryan 100 989 10.1 8.0 2.1
J. Iginla 147 1561 9.4 7.3 2.1
M. Gaborik 110 1047 10.5 8.4 2.1
A. Tanguay 59 559 10.6 8.5 2.0
N. Horton 89 944 9.4 7.5 2.0
P. Sharp 114 1202 9.5 7.5 2.0
P. Datsyuk 109 1131 9.6 7.6 2.0
D. Briere 94 816 11.5 9.7 1.8

So now that we've read through that list, and generally I think we can agree that all of those players are very skilled scorers, what the heck does it mean?  Those were 16 of the top 18 shooters in the NHL from 2007 through 2011 (last season), who directed 500 or more shot attempts at the goal (on net or missed). The Expected Shooting Percentage is weighted based on distance from the net when the shot is taken, closer in shots have a higher expected shooting percentage. The Delta value is the difference between their actual shooting percentage and their expected.

The other two players from the 18 that I didn't include were recently waived (and now Calgary Flame) Blake Comeau, and Clarke MacArthur.  I left them off for a few reasons though.  Comeau's expected shooting percentage from 2007 to 2011 was 6.9% (the only forward on the list under 7.0% aside from Kovalchuk - who is frankly insane), which to me indicates his shot selection isn't particularly solid.  MacArthur on the other hand sits firmly in 7th place on the list, with an ACT SH% of  10.3% and an EXP SH% of 8.1%, giving him a Delta value of +2.2.  

Secondarily, the issue with Comeau, MacArthur, and to an extent Chris Stewart is that all three players are fairly young and we're looking at a sample on the smaller end if we're assessing shooting talent (under 600 shots).  That being said, so far this year Comeau's numbers have nosedived.  He has 34 shot attempts (on net or missed) and has yet to score a goal. That has done nothing to help his numbers, giving him an ACT SH% of 8.5% and a Delta value of +1.6, dropping him off the list.

Similarly, Stewart has 3 goals on 63 attempts so far this year, giving him an actual SH% of 4.8% on the season approximately, and dropping his ACT SH% to 9.7%, and (assuming his EXP SH% is unchanged) his Delta would become +1.7, in essence dropping him from the list also.

MacArthur on the other hand hasn't regressed so far this year.  In only 18 games, MacArthur has already scored 9 goals on the year on 32 attempts in the direction of the net.  That gives him a seasonal value of 28.1% and actually boosts his ACT SH% to 11.2% and raising his Delta (assuming his EXP SH% hasn't shifted drastically) to +3.1.  Even more impressive? His ACT SH% rises from 20th in the NHL at 10.3% to 6th - in the same realm as Andrew Brunette, Sidney Crosby, Jonathan Toews, Daniel Briere, Tomas Holmstrom, and Thomas Vanek

So let that sink in for a second everyone.  We currently have arguably the 3rd best shooter in the NHL playing for our team in terms of ability to outperform expected shooting percentage, or alternatively the 6th best shooter in terms of actual shooting percentage.  Clarke MacArthur is more than adequately indicating that his offensive game deserves far more respect than it has received so far, both in Leaf land, and around the NHL.

Maybe signing him to that $1.1 million dollar contract two years ago works out to the canniest move Brian Burke has made as GM of the Leafs.  Time will tell, but until then, we'll let you be the judge.

Comment 95 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Comments

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Wait

Does that mean, if you brought a lot of really good shooters onto your team, a half or one percent uptick on your team shooting% wouldn’t be out of the question?
(not that thats an explanation for the Leafs current >11%)

by samspade on Nov 29, 2011 10:21 AM EST reply actions  

Interesting stuff. Thanks for this.

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/author/mislav-jantoljak/
@Xterratu on twitter

by Mislav Xterratu Jantoljak on Nov 29, 2011 10:27 AM EST reply actions  

I’ve come around on MacArthur a bit; I don’t think he’s riding Kulie and Grabbo’s coat-tails anymore. But I do think you’re overselling him a bit here. For one thing, while it’s great that he’s scoring so far this year, he also scored in big bunches last year, and that threw off his projections. He had something like 7 goals in 8 games to start last season, but then he tailed off considerably for most of the year. We could be seeing something like that again. I still think that he’s closer to a 20 goal scorer than a 30 goal scorer.

Another thing that I’d point out is that he doesn’t shoot very often. I’ve argued many times before that the real skill in being a top goal scorer isn’t having a high SH%, but generating a lot of shots. I think the ability to generate shots is severely under-rated as far as hockey skills go. Getting a lot of shots isn’t just about throwing the puck at the net as often as possible, it’s about evading defenders and getting into position to have a chance to score. That’s an area where MacArthur doesn’t seem to excel.

Of all the players listed here, the one who MacArthur seems most comparable to is Alex Tanguay. I don’t have time to look up the comparisons myself, but I’d be interested to see how their development lines up.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 29, 2011 10:31 AM EST reply actions  

that the real skill in being a top goal scorer isn’t having a high SH%, but generating a lot of shots

gonna have to agree on that one, nobody would say clarkie mark is a better shooter than phil. Check and mate

by AkiSchennberg on Nov 29, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Wait because MacArthur isn’t better than Kessel he isn’t a good goal scorer?

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Nov 29, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

actually

he is a better shooter for a number of reasons.

Kessel shoots more… and scores more goals. On the basis of SH% both expected and actual, he’s lower than MacArthur.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

According to the article, MacArthur’s expected shooting percentage is better than Datsyuk’s, indicating that he shoots from better locations than Datsyuk.

I think MacArthur’s problem isn’t “evading defenders and getting into position”, it’s rather your point about shooting often enough. Then again, if he took shots from slightly worse positions, maybe he would be shooting more (like Datsyuk).

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

his ice time

from 2007-11 would be far lower than Datsyuk… this explains a lot of what you guys are noticing.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Main distinction

that you’re missing here is how much ice time all of the above players get in comparison to MacArthur over the 2007-11 time frame.

His lower number of shot attempts isn’t necessarily a reflection of ability, but is quite likely lower due to his lower GP and ice time.

To wit: From 2007-11 MacArthur generated 564 shots in only 4284 minutes of ice time, while Ilya Kovalchuk generated his 1509 shots in 8690 minutes. So MacArthur is generating 7.89 shot attempts per 60, while Kovalchuk is generating 10.42.

You compare him to Tanguay, but Tanguay’s 559 shots came in 6253 minutes of ice time. He’s generating 5.36 shots per 60. So yeah… MacArthur is somewhere in the middle… he’s not like Tanguay.

He’s probably more like Hejduk or Burrows than Tanguay frankly.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Since I brought him up in an earlier comment as an example of someone with a lower EXP SH%, how does Datsyuk compare to MacArthur?

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Datsyuk's 1131

shot attempts came in 7596 minutes of ice time. 8.93 shots per 60. So slightly ahead of MacArthur… but not by a huge amount.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting. So we’re probably seeing the effect of shooting from slightly worse positions

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

the positions

can be drawn from the exp sh%. Higher % means shooting from closer in.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

MacArthur

is at 8.1% for his career (entering this year)… so yeah he’s marginally better.

To be fair though, as Gabe pointed out earlier today – only 11% of Sh% variation is accountable for via Shot Quality (shot location)… so realistically that’s not causing most of the difference.

Luck and Skill have a fair bit to do with it.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m referring only to EXP SH% (using it as representative of shot location).

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly. I’m saying that typically what we see is that shot totals go up as shot distance goes up (i.e. Ovechkin takes a ton of shots from fairly far out).

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s probably more like Hejduk or Burrows than Tanguay frankly.

I’m happy with that, as long as he doesn’t bite anyone’s fingers.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Here are the Leafs top 5 forwards from last season, sorted by S/60. The numbers here are SHOTS – MINUTES – S/60:

Kessel – 325 – 1611 – 12.1
Lupul – 129 – 843 – 9.1
Grabbo – 239 – 1568 – 9.1
Kulie – 173 – 1420 – 7.3
MacA – 154 – 1403 – 6.5

Kessel shoots nearly twice as frequently as MacArthur. Lupul and Grabbo both shoot quite a bit more frequently as well.

Let’s normalise this for 1500 minutes of TOI per player so we can see the difference on a full-season level:

Kessel – 303
Lupul – 228
Grabbo – 228
Kulie – 183
MacA – 163

At each player’s career avg SH%, here’s how many additional goals each player should expect to score over MacArthur entirely on account of their shot frequency, assuming 1500 minutes TOI:

Kessel – 15
Lupul – 7
Grabbo – 8
Kulie – 3

I think it’s pretty clear that Kessel, Lupul, and Grabovski should all be expected to score a pretty sizeable number of goals more than MacArthur because they shoot the puck more frequently. And this is why shot volume is more important than shot quality, generally speaking.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 29, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Should I turn this into its own fan post? I could expand it for the rest of the roster and show how shot rates affect goal production.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 29, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I would read and appreciate if you did

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Nov 29, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok

I think you’re missing the point – I freely acknowledge that shot rates relate to goal production… nowhere in the posting did I refute that belief.

What you’re missing is the point that MacArthur takes GOOD shots and shoots with an obviously high skill level when doing so, and he gets little to no credit for that.

What I see here is you spinning your wheels in an effort to discredit him on the basis of his shot frequency, and I don’t understand what the point in that is.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

secondly

If anyone is seeing pure luck affect their scoring rates, it’s the guys who shoot with a higher frequency but lower quality and skill… i.e. Kessel. That’s why as a career 10% shooter he’s suddenly seeing 19% shooting – which WON’T last.

Also, he’s shooting LESS this year, not more.

Same goes for Lupul… you’ve got a career 11.1% shooter suddenly shooting a career high 15.9%. Don’t expect that to continue.

At least Bozak and MacArthur are close to their career ranges in SH%, I expect their production to sustain itself.

The only way Lupul and Kessel get close to 40/50 goals is by shooting a LOT, not by continuing to maintain their sh%.

Thus expecting them to CONTINUE to produce at a high level is dependent on random chance, luck, and a continuing high shot output.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

check that

obviously MacArthur has exceeded his… by the same level of increase as Kessel and Lupul… all 3 will tail off at some point.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not trying to discredit anyone. MacArthur takes a relatively small number of shots and converts on them at a very good frequency. But I think number of shots is more important to being a good goal scorer than SH%. This isn’t a conclusion I’ve suddenly come to just to attack MacArthur, I’ve been saying it for a while now.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 29, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

And it’s easily proven, who has more goals? Kessel. Therefore Kessel is a better goal scorer.

by theninjagreg on Nov 29, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

nobody said MacArthur is a better goal scorer. WTF is with this weird argument?

I said he has the best shot skill on the team… that’s all.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

NOWHERE

in this posting do I state MacArthur is better at scoring goals than Kessel.

I said he’s got elite level shooting talent… that doesn’t mean he maximizes it… or that he gets credit for it… or that Phil Kessel sucks or anything.

If it makes anyone feel better, Alex Ovechkin is far below Phil Kessel… of course he also isn’t scoring right now, so that might bother you guys if you extrapolate properly into the future.

That’s about all I’ve said.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

here's another way of thinking about it

goal scorers who rely on “skill” tend to keep producing later into their careers… guys that have repeatable abilities, i.e. getting to good locations, and having discernibly high quality shots (i.e. high delta).

Guys like Kessel who barely shoot above expectations and thrive on getting a lot of shots off? that doesn’t last long term… there aren’t a lot of mid 30’s players firing 300+ shots.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

To further this

only 8 players since 1980-81 have had more than 1 season with over 300 shots. Ray Bourque tops the list with 5, and Jason Blake has 4.

After that you’ve got Marcel Dionne and Al MacInnis had 3 each. Then the following players with 2: Bondra, Hull, Jagr, and Lemieux.

Nobody else has more than 1.

So in other words, if you’re banking on Kessel long term… don’t. He’s going to drop off in scoring in the next 4-5 years… unfortunately.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

to clarify

those were seasons past the age of 30.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

so where am I going with this?

if the Leafs are to keep players beyond the age of 30 offensively? I’d rather see them hold on to MacArthur and Bozak, who both produce extremely good shot location numbers, and tend to fall around where expected (higher than 8.0 on quality – i.e. location, and around 10% in actual sh%).

Guys like Kessel and Lupul won’t be worth as much once they hit 30… and certainly will have a hard time earning the contracts you see tossed the way of 50 goal scorers… Alex Ovechkin is an example of where this sort of thing can go.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Fortunately, Phil doesn’t turn 30 for another 6(!) years. It’ll be Kessel Time for a while yet!

by Papa Squid on Nov 29, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Your article and Draglikepuill’s points are both true. I’m not arguing against either.

by theninjagreg on Nov 29, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you!

let’s see you try to argue with that!

But seriously, I see your point here. You’re merely stating observations based on quantitative data, I don’t understand what everyone is getting all excited about.

by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 29, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Here are

this year’s shot rates… not sure why you’d bother with last year’s.

Kessel – 117 SA / 484 min = 14.51 SA/60
Lupul – 96 SA / 457 min = 12.60 SA/60
Grabovski – 45 SA / 339 min = 7.96 SA/60
Kulemin – 66 SA / 377 min = 10.50 SA/60
MacArthur – 32 SA / 262 min = 7.32 SA/60

MacArthur’s shot attempts are actually low in comparison to his career numbers right now, so I’d expect his shot generation to improve.

Last year Kessel had 434 SA in 1611 mins = 16.16 SA/60. So his attempts are actually down by almost a shot and a half per 60 minutes, but he’s scoring MORE, and I fail to see how the obvious connection between the two in any way explains his huge jump in production.

Obviously SH% explains the increase far more than his shot rate… i.e. LUCK + Skill… and on the basis of skill in terms of Shot Quality and shooting skill? MacArthur’s numbers are far better historically. So really Kessel is benefitting from a lot of “luck” right now.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I used last year’s numbers because a full season worth of shot data provides us more data points and provides a more reliable sample. I haven’t commented anywhere on Kessel’s numbers this year. I agree that Kessel is benefitting from luck right now, that’s why I used his career avg. in my calculations above and not his current SH%.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 29, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough

I agree with you that Kessel is going to score more goals, same for Lupul.

But MacArthur is more reliable offensively than many think, and I don’t see that changing drastically after this season. If he adds another 150-200 shot attempts this year, and he gets another 20-30 goals, then I think it’s safe to say that after 5-6 years in the NHL he’s a reliable offensive contributor, who is good for 20-30 goals and 55+ points…

I’m fine with saying that… I just think he’s under-rated, and if he was better defensively he’d get more ice time and take more shots.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Kessel Exp sh% right now?

What is it currently? And how does the delta compare. I feel like kessel’s taking a lot more shots in the slot and up close than from further out this year.

by edliuen on Nov 29, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

WIthout looking at the stats, from my experience of watching Tanguay I’d say he’s definitely a pass-first player. So many times when watching Flames game I find myself saying, “Why did you pass!!?” So maybe he only shoots when he feels he has a really good chance at it going in, and so the stats reflect that.

by theninjagreg on Nov 29, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

that's likely true

Tanguay’s shot selection definitely has impacted him career wise. His SH% for his entire career is FAR above what one would expect though. He’s similar to Kovalchuk in that regard.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t shot selection represented by exp sh%? Kovalchuk takes a lot of shots from around the perimeter (bad shot selection) leading to the lowest of the 16 in exp sh%, yet he has a ridiculously high sh %. So either a) he’s got a ridiculous shot or b) he’s getting really lucky

by edliuen on Nov 29, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

he's

been like that his entire career… he’s got a ridiculously good shot.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 1, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

oh and lastly

“big bunches” is horribly unfair – and it’s a typical criticism of scorers. Streakiness. He had two months with 6 goals, one with 4, and two with 2, and one with 1 (and April with 0 but that’s only 4 games). He obviously wasn’t the main shooter on the line last year, and considering his line mates combined for 59 goals I don’t see this as a serious problem.

I’m not sure I buy the idea that he’s too streaky to be considered good.

Obviously streaks level off.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus

You shouldn’t expect every shooter to constantly score goals at will, unless they were Ilya Kovalchuk.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

even then

you shouldn’t expect it. Kovalchuk’s shooting is good, but it’s pretty far from ‘at will’. Particularly given how crappy his Exp Sh% is.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I know

Just joking, that’s all.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t say he’s streaky. What I said is that last year people got over-excited about his full-season potential because of a big cluster of goals scored early on. I spent all season arguing that MacArthur wasn’t really a 25-30 goal guy like lots of people thought he was, because his hot start was leading to unrealistic expectations. I don’t know if that’s what’s happenning this year, but I think it could be.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 29, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

MACARTROSS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svKoK4zbSnU

I'm building a beautiful statue, to make sure that no one forgets you

by jimmyp22 on Nov 29, 2011 10:41 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Mac has a deadly slapper, coming down the left wing with speed. Hard and accurate.

Kulemin is a second/shadow assist kind of player. Does the forecheck/board work/puck retrieval thing well.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST reply actions  

what? no Kulemin is not a second assist type player at all, not with his shot and first pass ability

Resident Internet Tough Guy

by JaredFromLondon on Nov 29, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah he’s got all the tools. His forecheck and puck retrieval stands out the most to me.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 29, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I think even on plays where he doesn’t pick up a first assist, Kulemin often has a hand in the goal because of his net presence or excellent forechecking.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Nov 29, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Okay but MacArthur definitely had a hand in the goals the line scored because he got points on the play.

Also, if you’re a fan of corsi: last season, MacArthur had the second best corsi stats on the line but the least o-zone starts.

As valuable as Kulemin was, I think MacArthur takes the cake. It’s important to note that I’m not trying to attack Kulemin. I like him.

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I won’t speak for DLP, but I’m not commenting on Kulemin’s game as some sort of indictement of MacArthur.

I was responding to this:

Of MacArthur’s 62 points in 2010-11, 51 of them were either goals or first assists (82.2%). For Grabovski the total was 48 of his 58 points (82.7%), and for Kulemin it was 39 of his 57 points (68%). From the looks of those numbers, I’d say it makes more sense to argue that Kulemin was the passenger offensively rather than MacArthur, although I wouldn’t argue that because of how industrious and effective Kulemin is defensively and along the boards.

In particular:

I’d say it makes more sense to argue that Kulemin was the passenger offensively rather than MacArthur, although I wouldn’t argue that because of how industrious and effective Kulemin is defensively and along the boards

I was explanding on the idea.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 29, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Explanding? I like that term.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

me too. I’m adding it to the repetoire. It means “expanding in a messy fashion”. True story

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 29, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I definitely agree with you. Like I said, I like Kulemin.

My comment was more directed at the post I replied to as well as Draglikepull’s first comment. It reminded me of discussions from last season about how MacArthur was being carried by Kulemin and Grabovski in spite of almost every single statistic available.

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I see. A long standing fued, simmering just below the surface, waiting for a post just like this one to boil the waters again, and cause an uproar. Maybe I’m exagerrating

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 29, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Ha! Rec’d.

It was like a flashback.

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

/shaking violently

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 29, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

aka “the shadow assist”

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

While I will also admit my opinion on MacArthur has risen greatly (I put my thumb on him to not repeat his point totals and be a disappointment to which I can clearly say I was wrong), I take his game and style of play as a player who gets into the right spots to capitalize. I’m not convinced he is an elite scorer or “great” shooter, but a player who knows how to make the most of his chances that when he is put together with two hard working players like Grabovski and Kulemin, they work very well together because he can compliment their work, rather than ride their coattails. (Who’d he play with in Atlanta anyway?)

Kinda get a bit of a Gary Roberts feel.

And yeah, I have no stats, I just watch the games and that’s what my memory tells me. No more proof than that, so don’t ask.

So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil

by Learn2Leaf on Nov 29, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions  

right well

the stats would completely disagree with your assessment that he is not a “great” shooter. but to each their own.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

But his gut tells him hes right so there!

Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.

by BlindSight on Nov 30, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you suggesting that your description of him is a bad shooter? “He knows how to get to the right spots to capitalize”? Thats a good thing.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Nov 29, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you go from “not convinced he is an elite scorer or "great" shooter” to me saying he’s bad? I get the whole analysis made, but am not convinced. There is more to shot quality that distance from net as there is more to goals than how good the shot was. Tip ins, redirections/deflections, blocked shots all could confound this analysis easily.

But Steve is correct in pointing out that he has the stats and I don’t. So whatever.

So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil

by Learn2Leaf on Nov 29, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe it was my first preamble, so I’ll restate: I was wrong in my expectations of MacArthur this season. He’s much better than I expected him to be already.

So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil

by Learn2Leaf on Nov 29, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

There are analyses

that include deflections, tip-ins, and rebound shots. Blocked shots are not considered entirely relevant for this type of analysis.

Generally speaking the impact of rebounds is higher than any of the others you mentioned, and shot angle also has some impact… but beyond that the biggest factor is distance. Which is why this is a “simplified” analysis of the distance calculations that doesn’t involve angle, because generally speaking the angle doesn’t have a huge impact.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Though couldn’t shots blocked explain why his overall shot total is low and affect %s?

So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil

by Learn2Leaf on Nov 29, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

it could

but it doesn’t.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

blocked shots

aren’t included in the shot attempts, so there’s zero impact on the SH%.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Where do you get you “expected” shooting percentage stats?

by theninjagreg on Nov 29, 2011 11:16 AM EST reply actions  

I believe it’s the expected shooting percentage from a given shot location.

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

The expected shooting percentage at a certain shot location.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

actually

Gabe’s chart just uses distance, not location on the ice.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

although

you’d need the location to determine the distance… but yeah whatever.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn’t it include shot angle?

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I also thought he presented a contour plot, using xy locations to determine EXP SH.

by stevesmith19 on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

he's done both in the past

but for this table I believe he simplified it just to distance.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

it can

but I think he simplified it as mentioned below.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, but do you have a link to this chart?

by theninjagreg on Nov 29, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

it's up

on arctic ice hockey… just go there and type in shot quality into the search bar.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Nov 29, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Clarke MacArthur is an excellent shooter. Not good, not just above average, excellent

But would you label him “elite”?!?

by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 29, 2011 11:29 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

No.

And here’s the 2700 word explanation why not.

Oh, skip it.

Yes. He’s elite.

I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.

by not norm ullman on Nov 29, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

MacArthur to me is the best “all-around” guy on the leafs. Backhand forehand shooting passing slapshot wristshot snapshot dekes simple plays board plays defensive awareness offensive awareness. My team of 5 MacArthurs would probably crush your team of 5 Kessels.

I'm building a beautiful statue, to make sure that no one forgets you

by jimmyp22 on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 AM EST reply actions  

Elite, you say?

I think I see MacArthur in the back.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

Btw

Pictured: Clarke MacArthur over 3 Habs

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Clarke’s great in the dressing room, too. I don’t think he’d be a bad choice for an ‘A’ at all. He’s one of the better players for us to deal with and is obviously intelligent and popular with his teammates.

They made the right call keeping him around.

All hockey all the time at The Globe and Mail

by James Mirtle on Nov 29, 2011 5:06 PM EST reply actions  

I kind of feel bad now for trading him in NHL12.

by Papa Squid on Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m hearing a lot of trade suggestions posted with say Kuli and/or Bozak. Say if you traded Bozak (Kessel’s good friend) would that have a detrimental effect on kessel’s play? likewise with Kuli and Grabo.

So what I’m wondering is which members of the leafs you wouldn’t consider trading due to team chemistry?

by edliuen on Nov 29, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya I think we should be careful about that. Part of the success (and almost any success) is the team chemistry

Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.

by LeafsLover on Nov 30, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s one of the better players for us to deal with

Do you see Kadri in the background when you interview MacArthur?

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Nov 29, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

MacArthur is close enough to McCarthy that I think we should feel justified in calling that line the “Red Scare”. Any takers?

Let the Wookie win.
Twitter is a thing!

by Kenjamin on Nov 29, 2011 5:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Well done!!!

I really enjoyed this piece Steve! It was well written and presented soem interesting information.

by schennsational on Nov 29, 2011 11:22 PM EST reply actions  

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