Is Evgeni Nabokov an Option for Toronto?
by Chemmy on Nov 9, 2011 11:30 AM EST
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Chris Botta, the former New York Islanders blogger who now writes for the NY Times' Slapshot blog, tweeted this earlier:
@ChrisBottaNHL: Ron Wilson could be reunited with Nabokov. But will #Isles trade a quality G within East again for a draft pick or iffy prospect?
Rumor is that the asking price for Evgeni Nabokov is a 2nd round draft pick, though if that were the case I'm guessing Nabokov would be a Blue Jacket or a Maple Leaf already.
Nabokov is quietly having a decent season as part of a three headed goalie monster on the Island. Al Montoya continues to keep his SV% above .920 and Rick DiPietro is literally unmoveable so it makes sense that Nabokov would be on the market, especially given that his contract was tolled and he doesn't seem to like New York.
Nabokov would give the Leafs some stability in net and when James Reimer returns Toronto could have a goalie battle that wasn't a race to the bottom for once. Jonas Gustavsson would obviously be the odd man out, and pointing out how bad he is so obvious that "pointing out Gustavsson's struggles" should likely replace "beating a dead horse" in our collective lexicons.
Gustavsson played a decent week for us and has backed it up with an horrific one, but last night it hit me: the worst part about Gustavsson is that he isn't cost controlled. If he stinks the Leafs lose games. If Gustavsson suddenly sets the world on fire he's a UFA and will command top dollar or leave.
It's up to Brian Burke to shore up this team's goaltending options. I wouldn't send Ben Scrivens to live on a farm yet but he's clearly not ready for prime time. Mark Owuya and Jussi Rynnas don't look ready to save the day although I think Rynnas may be deserving of a call up only given the options ahead of him.
Meanwhile the Leafs are still 9-5-1 and they've lost two games in a row for the first time all season. Kessel leads the NHL in goals 15 games in and Toronto's still a young team trying to add pieces. Chin up Leafs fans.
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I assumed that the words “Rick DiPietro is literally unmoveable” meant that he was in a body cast, as per usual.
by Peter Lynn on Nov 9, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
His asking price may be a 2nd round pick and he’s just been rejecting the teams that NYI tried to trade him to thus far. He has an NMC
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I wouldn’t want to be traded to the blue jackets.
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"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
That’s where Goalies go to die
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If that’s true, then Toronto is goaltender Hell.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 9, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
So you’re saying they come here after they die?
by Bobby Paradise on Nov 9, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
some of them, yes.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 9, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Steeeeeeeeve Mason!
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Nov 9, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the NMC was only with DET. Did that carryover once he got picked up on waivers?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 9, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
When you get traded, picked up on waivers, etc. your entire contract shifts to the new team.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Ah yes. Logic. I should try it sometime.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 9, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I’d still like to think that if we’re giving up picks or prospects Burke will look at Biron first…
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
I don’t think he’s available. Sather signed him on purpose to take some pressure off Lundy. With his cheap salary unless we are filling holes they have now (I think that means Gunnar :( ) then they probably aren’t at all interested.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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Yeah..
I still can’t believe his contract…
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
I don’t get it all. I think Boucher signed after him for more. I just didn’t get it
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
There must be something between Sather and Biron that we never heard about…
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
Biron for Franson.
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Their AHL goalie, Chad Johnson, is supposed to have some backup potential, but I think it’d be a pretty hefty price to get the Rangers to give up on a more proven netminder like Biron, especially if they try to go light on Lundqvist again, like you mentioned.
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Wonder Nabakov’s conditioning after spending a year in KHL?
He was pulled in shootout in favor of DP.
http://www.unsportsmanlike.ca/archives/6650
Nabokov was playing the third period with a lower body injury (foot or hip if I remember). It wasn’t fatigue or play related.
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I'd rather take the risk on signing Turco.
He’ll likely be cheap. This also comes from my dislike of trading for rentals.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
by furcifer on Nov 9, 2011 11:38 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Turco was under .900 last year on a very good Chicago team. He’s been under .900 three times since the lockout. He might not even been an improvement over Gus at this point in his career.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Nov 9, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Turco was awful last year and probably isn’t even in playing shape right now. Nabokov is in decent shape and if Toronto gives up a second for him they can likely get something for him at the trade deadline.
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If that’s the plan (to turn him into assets at the deadline) then I’m in full support.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
This may be a weird question...
But what is a second round pick worth? 2wins? 5Wins? Because if we have Nabby over Gus/Scriv that may equate to an additional 3-5wins…
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
Time for Math
Let’s say whoever the backup is plays another 30 games this season due to Reimer’s condition, etc.. Then let’s say the Leaf continue their pace of 30.4 shots against a game. That’s 912 shots against for that goalie.
For Gustavsson at his current pace of .878, that’s 112 goals against.
For Nabokov at his current pace of .911 that’s 81 goals against.
That’s a 32 goal differential, over 30 games mind you. (1.07+ goals per game).
A +6 goal differential is considered to be an extra win. So basically a switch from Gus to Nabby is worth 5 wins, or 10 points in the standings. That puts last year’s Leafs team into the Playoffs at as the 7th or 8th seed.
(For comparison’s sake, Nashville just signed Rinne to $7M a year for .920 goaltending, which is .010 above league average. Over 60 games at 30 shots against, that is $7M for only an 18 goal differential. That’s $7M for 3 extra wins, or 6 points in the standings.)
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Nov 9, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Thanks!
This is EXACTLY the type of answer I was looking for. So, the real question becomes…how many games will Reimer be out for, and what type of workload will he have to take on.
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
Phil Kessel hasn’t scored since last night, you guys. I’m worried he might be slumping.
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by puckurgently on Nov 9, 2011 11:57 AM EST reply actions 9 recs
Better get our boy some Afternoon Delight.
Riding the Leafs bandwagon since 1991.
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by CanadianMaple09 on Nov 9, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe we can stick it in his brownie…
by Bobby Paradise on Nov 9, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
SHOULD I BE PANICKING ABOUT THAT? I SHOULD BE, RIGHT? DAMMIT, I NEVER PANIC FAST ENOUGH…
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by jrwendelman on Nov 9, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
After I tweeted that the people bagging on Kessel’s “slump” were idiots somebody tweeted at me “KESSEL HASN’T SCORED IN OVER AN HOUR. SLUMP?” and I burst out laughing.
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https://twitter.com/#!/rfancey3/status/134109523060342784
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Couldn’t believe Millen talking about Kessel’s slump last night. Unbelievable.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
HE’S SLUMPING
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its so ridiculous….
Millen sticking up for Gus and Scrivens was sad as well…
ITS NEVER THE GOALIES FAULT, EVERY GOAL IS TIPPED
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by Matt_Roberts on Nov 9, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
A note on Jonas Gustavsson:
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
by JP Nikota on Nov 9, 2011 12:22 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
Sweet baby Jesus I can totally hear that going through Gus’ head
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Hey its the worst thing ever.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
He thought he’d let it go for icing.
/DonovanMcNabb’d
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Nov 9, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I completely forgot that part
Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
by Chris Stoikoff on Nov 9, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Rob Davison, worse than Richard Park
Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
by Chris Stoikoff on Nov 9, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting note
My sister is dating Rob Davison’s brother, i have asked about that goal and he still laughs about it now…..If i remember correctly that was the only goal he ever scored at the NHL level
He’s scored three NHL goals, but that was his only ever goal with the Islanders.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
true true
Simple search would have corrected me, I forgot he played for the Sharks as well as the Islanders
Proposal
Would you guys be interested in Anders Lindback of Nashville for Franson and a 4th?
What’s Lindback’s salary like?
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
Who gives a shit? If it’s a goalie coming out of Nashville, grab it.
(Also, no way in hell that trade would happen)
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Sure the pick might end up being better. . .
but Poile is in love with each and every D-man he drafts. After trading the crappy Ryan Parent in the Forsberg deal back in 07, he got him back from Philly for Hamhuis’s rights last summer. He hated getting rid of Franson
Jeremy Smith isn’t ready to be an NHL backup, in a year where the Predators HAVE to be pushing for a playoff run (Weber). Lindback is going to gain in value as he gets better under Korn, and could very well end up being a big name on the market if Bernier and Schneider end up getting moved before Smith is ready (1-2 years), assuming Smith gets to that point.
Franson has second pairing upside at best, and his defensive prowess has ended him up in the press box here, so he’s got a long way to go – longer than Nashville is going to want to wait (Weber). This means that if Lindback does get moved, it’s probably at the deadline (read: too late to help the Leafs) for a “help-us-now” piece. Franson isn’t that piece, even if Poile has a crush on him.
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DAN ELLIS
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by FiftyMissionCap on Nov 9, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
you has goalie?
Glenn Healy..go fuck yourself.
MGK Lover
by Future_considerations on Nov 9, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Done.
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Very cheap. Still entry-level. Not too many games, but he had back-to-back shutouts last year in relief for Pekka
Reply fail
Our bottom pair is Laakso and Hillen, which are somehow way worse than Franson.
I think the guy who would be a better fit for you guys could be Chris Mason. Dude strikes me as mentally tough and that seems to be half the battle in T.O.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
If he was available.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
Total class act
Another product of Nashville’s Mitch Korn: Tomas Vokoun, Chris Mason, Dan Ellis (They can’t all be good, right?), Anders Lindback, Jeremy Smith (who’s doing well in Milwaukee), and Pekka.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the whole “needing to be mentally tough” thing is more media narrative than real phenomenon. Also, and I could be wrong, Chris Mason just looks mentally tough cause he has a shaved head.
Come get your duds in order...
Of course to some degree, but mental toughness is required for all high-level athletes. Maybe playing in Nashville is less emotionally strenuous than in Toronto, but what happens to those players when they get to the playoffs? I’m just not convinced that Toronto is such a special case that requires players with extra skill. I think the media flatters themselves thinking they make Toronto special.
Come get your duds in order...
I dunno, I haven’t paid much attention to Nashville playoff games but I’d venture to guess that some of our regular season games get more hype (correct me if I’m wrong)
You may be right. My point was that I find it difficult to imagine that media hype during the regular season here is more demanding or difficult to deal with than the pressure of playing in a game 7 anywhere. I would imagine that if a player can focus on just playing the game in a tense do-or-die scenario, stupid reporters asking irritating questions pales in comparison.
Come get your duds in order...
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by GreatKingRat on Nov 9, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Mid 30s, hasn’t been above .893 in two years.
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I don’t hate the idea of Nabokov, but for the sake of discussion: Why not Clemmensen? His last three years have all been above .910, he has an expiring contract, and with Markstrom likely representing an improvement in net (if not in the short term, certainly in the long term), Clemmensen is pretty expendable. The price would likely be cheaper than Nabokov, and I’m not sure the SVP difference would represent a significant change in the standings.
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I see your point. However: If Clemmensen posted the average of his last three years’ SVP (or even his last two), the Leafs would have the backup goaltending needed to make the playoffs. So, if Nabby’s price were too high, would you prefer the playoffs, or just not having Clemmensen back?
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I would also suggest Nittymaki, but he’s still recovering from hip surgery.
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I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Well, the idea was to look for someone who hasn’t recently been sub-900.
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Me on Twitter
I think Markstrom was sent down..
Glenn Healy..go fuck yourself.
MGK Lover
by Future_considerations on Nov 9, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
why would FLA trade Clemmenson right now then
Glenn Healy..go fuck yourself.
MGK Lover
by Future_considerations on Nov 9, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Because he stopped 152 of 161 while he was up here. He wasn’t sent down for performance, he was sent down because he’s waiver exempt and Clemmensen isn’t injured any more.
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Me on Twitter
aha, i thought it was for further ahl seasoning, i stand correctable. :)
Glenn Healy..go fuck yourself.
MGK Lover
by Future_considerations on Nov 9, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I’m fine with trading for pretty much any goalie who can reasonably be expected to put up better than a .905 SV% and won’t cost more than a 2nd round draft pick or middling prospect.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Just for the sake of discussion, if we assume the Leafs aren’t cup contenders this season, why trade a prospect whose value we don’t totally know (or a pick for that matter) to get a goalie who will help us get the 7th seed? I’m not sure I want the Leafs trading prospects for pieces like that until we’re closer to contending. In other words, why make that trade now?
Come get your duds in order...
Because their jobs just might depend on making the playoffs.
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
No way Burke gets fired before the last year of his contract. He makes too much money.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
I’m talking about trading something of relatively little value. I don’t think we should be looking to trade a 1st or Jesse Blacker or whatever, but while this team obviously isn’t a contender, there’s too much talent elsewhere in the lineup to let great seasons by players like Kessel and Phaneuf be wasted on account of management’s failure to address our goaltending situation.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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I’m just not sure how getting booted after the first round of the playoffs isn’t wasting a year of great play by Kessel and Phaneuf while not making the playoffs is.
Come get your duds in order...
Baby steps…Do you expect the Leafs to go from non-playoff team to Cup contender in one season? Really?
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
No, nor do I expect “playoffs” to be a goal around which we make decisions regarding moving prospects. The goal should always be Cup contender. We will inevitably make the playoffs along the way, but making moves in order to make the playoffs seems like poor asset management.
Come get your duds in order...
Agree to disagree in this case. I would trade a 2nd round pick for a decent NHL goaltender and an increased shot at the playoffs this season. This team/organization/fanbase is starved for playoffs – yes that’s the reason why.
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Also about buying time for guys like Scrivens to develop. The same reason we brought Liles in.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
That too. Perfectly good reason. Shelter a prospect, instead of rushing them into a situation where we need wins.
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
But if you create a playoff team that the fans and everyone is content with then you (the managers) will never need to build that team stronger and into, say, a cup contending team. I think we should look towards a team that can get us a cup maybe not now but that will in the future be a cup contender
Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
I hate when people assume that the Leafs would be knocked out first round or that it is poor management to try and make the playoffs. Anything can happen in the playoffs and it is important that this young Leafs team gets playoff experience if we hope that they one day can be contenders. Not to mention the fact that the Leafs have not played a playoff game in 6 years. How attractive do you think that makes Toronto on the FA market? What player wants to come to a market that doesn’t make the playoffs, isn’t competitive and are constantly forced to deal with the media. I’m not for selling the farm, but if it is a fair trade in which we do not have to give away our future, then I am for it.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Anything can happen
But it usually doesn’t.
I just want to watch meaningful hockey in April.
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Someone (I can’t remember who) recently looked at how many Cup-winning teams weren’t either division leaders or Conference leaders. Turns out there aren’t many. 8th seeds don’t win Cups, as a rule. As a strategy, gunning for a low seed because “anything can happen” typically won’t get you much more than that low seed.
I also think that Toronto looks more attractive on the FA market if they’re clearly building for long-term success rather than a flash-in-the-pan gamble.
Look, I get that we’re all desperate for playoff hockey. But it will come eventually, and I don’t want to ever get the sense that the team started selling young prospects simply for shots at the playoffs. Short-term success isn’t what I want the Leafs to be after.
Come get your duds in order...
Perfect, thanks. Knew I’d seen it somewhere. Average seed of 2.19 and lowest (only twice) at 5 pretty much tells the story there.
Come get your duds in order...
Check out the lowest rank tahts made it to the finals.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
And Philly made it in 7th off the top of my head.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
No team ever won the Stanley Cup Finals when opening with a 7 game series. Last year both finalists opened with 7 game series. Things happen but I never said the Leafs were going to win. Bad choice of words more then anything. That and desperately in need of the playoffs.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
No team ever won the Stanley Cup Finals when opening with a 7 game series.
Calgary did it in ’89.
Edmonton did it in ’90.
PIttsburgh did it in ’91.
I stopped checking after that.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Nov 9, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Going back 10 years
2011 – 1 and 3
2010 – 2 and 7 (Philly)
2009 – 4 and 2
2008 – 1 and 2
2007 – 2 and 4
2006 – 2 and 8 (Edmonton)
2004 – 1 and 6 (Calgary)
2003 – 2 and 7 (Anaheim)
2002 – 1 and 3
2001 – 1 and 1
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
I think Toronto is attractive to free agents if they have playing time to offer and are willing to pay lots of money. Just like every other team that’s willing to spend to the cap.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Your assuming though that the Leafs will be in 8th and not 5th or 4th or whatever. I agree with you that you don’t sell the farm. I disagree though with the notion that the Leafs can have another lackadaisical season. The difference between a 10th pick and a 18th pick is not all that significant. Really after the 5th or 6th guy it becomes a toss up for who is drafted next. I’m not saying the Leafs should go into win now mode. They are far from cup contenders. But the Leafs are nowhere near being bad enough for a top 5 pick, even with Gus. So it should be their goal to make the playoffs. As long as they don’t do anything stupid like trade their 1st pick or guys like Kadri and Colbourne we will be fine.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
I agree with everything you say right up until “So it should be their goal to make the playoffs.” The goal should never change. It should always be to build a cup contending team. Any move that is made solely to nudge us into the playoffs, because once in ‘anything can happen’, is a bad move to me. Making the playoffs is a sign that you’re on the right track, not ‘mission accomplished’.
Also, I think ‘anything can happen’ is getting to be meme-worthy.
Come get your duds in order...
LOL, well maybe “anything can happen” wasn’t the right words. Just meant that if the Leafs got into the playoffs they may surprise. They are nowhere near contenders yet but they might make it entertaining. I agree though the Leafs should not make a rash trade that puts them in the playoffs by trading away good assets. but that being said I would hate to see them come 9th or 10th as really it doesn’t help our picks or provide us with meaningful hockey. 6years is along time. Legally dead long.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
You need both short and long term goals.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Sure, but I imagine short term goals should be about player development and system building rather than playoff seed.
Come get your duds in order...
I think its a balance. It is also their job to provide an entertaining product.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
It is, but I think that if they are always trying to build a Cup contender, along the way the team will be entertaining.
Come get your duds in order...
I think building a team that can do the best that it can today is also a goal and it needs to be balanced against the more important goal of winning the cup in the long run.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
I think I agree but I’m not sure what that first part means. “A team that can do the best that it can today” isn’t totally clear as a goal for management.
Look, the only thing I care about is that management limits itself to two kinds of moves: moves that bring in pieces we want long term (i.e. pieces we see as being [at least potentially] on the cup-winning team) or moves that bring in pieces that we will then flip for more than we paid. Neither of those moves take us off the track of building towards being Cup contenders, and both can make the team better short-term (and should).
What I’m opposed to are moves that bring in band-aids or players who only have short-term benefits. Bringing in an aging veteran goalie who can help us win more games than Gustavsson this season seems like that kind of move.
I imagine that we’re probably agreeing, at least on most of this.
Come get your duds in order...
We are absolutely, though I really don’t think it would cost to much to bring in a vet to backup Reimer, not to mention the fact that we might get 3-4 years out of them. But I agree with you on most things.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
We actually aren't agreeing
I am okay with moving assets that make us better today as long as its not too much. I don’t mind moving a 4th for Steckel if it makes us better today but that doesn’t help us in the long term. Same deal with moving a 2nd for Liles (or in this case a goalie). I wouldn’t be happy to see a first, or a top prospect (Blacker/Gardiner/Kadri/etc), or a young/prime aged player (Kulemin/MacArthur/etc) moved for a bandaid.
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There are two options: Tank or address the goaltending. 9th place is the worst place in the league. I don’t want to be in 9th place again.
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This team isn’t bad enough to tank and Burke’s got too much pride to blow up the team at the deadline. I think option B in this case might be what the Blue Jays are doing: if the current group wins, great, but if not AA is not going to disrupt the development of the team’s young players to bring in rentals.
Mind you, drafting is way different in baseball and it’s a lot harder to get in the playoffs, but it’s possible Burke tells the team to figure it out internally.
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by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
What about the third option of not making any deals that aren’t in the team’s long-term interests? If we’re not making contending for the Cup this year, the only project for this year should be to put the team closer to contending. I’m not sure adding Chris Mason does this. If we’re bringing in a piece we think we need to compete for the Cup, I’m fine burning some prospects or picks. But only for those kinds of players.
Come get your duds in order...
On the other hand, how do you know how close you are to contending in the playoffs until you actually make the playoffs? I just wanna make it in so that we can gauge what we have in the organization.
Why can’t that happen over the regular season? We play the same teams.
Come get your duds in order...
Playoffs are a different animal mentally, you see it every single year that there are players that come out of nowhere and step their game up when it matters most. We need to see if we have that in the organization.
Plus there is a different element to the playoffs in that players have to have a high hockey IQ. You play the same opponents a minimum of 4 games in a row. they’re the only team you’re thinking about. you learn how your opponents play and make adjustments. If you can’t adjust, you lose
only the players with the highest skill combined with a high hockey IQ survive in the playoffs (see toews, zetterberg, malkin, ovechkin) as opposed to players like the sedins, who are limitted to their regular season methods
The Sedins got shut down by Weber/Suter/Rinne and Chara/Thomas. It has nothing to do with “high hockey IQ”, it’s about running into incredibly difficult opponents. Also, they got Vancouver within 1 game of winning the Cup.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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I think it has everything to do with hockey IQ. Of course you can attribute it to different opponents but if they’re really elite forwards in today’s NHL they should be able to stay effective. Good players find ways to score, even against Chara and Weber
“Hockey IQ” sounds a lot like “intangibles” to me. You’re drawing large conclusions based on small samples. Henrik Sedin scored at more than a point-per-game clip in the playoffs last year, then ran into some of the best goaltending the NHL has ever seen.
Boston’s GAA in the playoffs last year was 2.12. Tim Thomas’ SV% was .940. It happens.
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I’m not just talking about the series against boston. This has nothing to do with Vancouver losing, its been his whole career (except for the last two years)
So you’re talking about the other series, where the Sedins put up lots of points and helped their team get to the Finals?
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He’s talking about their whole career playoffs.
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GPG PPG in regular season and playoffs
Daniel Sedin
RS: 0.32 0.83
playoffs: 0.26 0.69
Henrik:
RS: 0.20 0.83
playoffs:0.22 0.73
They have been worse in the playoffs through their careers. Goal scoring has been pretty consistent bur points are a fair bit depressed.
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whoa it’s almost like there’s harder competition in the playoffs
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I should have said scored less, not worse. Please accept my correction.
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Interestingly though
If you look up Ovi is a tad (don’t know if its a significant difference) better in the playoffs.
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This probably adds to that thought
It shows that league wide s% tends to be higher in the playoffs
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I think you mean save percentage (SV%).
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
Over the past 3 playoffs, Daniel Sedin has scored at a .93 PPG pace. Henrik has scored at .97. That doesn’t look like 2 guys who aren’t very good come playoff time.
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Its substantially below their regular season performance in those years.
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3SA. Those three playoff years amount to roughly half a season of hockey. And they include 7 games where Tim Thomas played at an insane level. And the games are against tougher competition.
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and much tougher competition than the NW division it should be noted. Against a tighter division, I’d expect their regular season numbers to be a bit lower as well
Mats Sundin career regular season PPG – 1.00
Mats Sundin career playoff PPG – 0.90
Exact same 0.1 PPG dropoff as Henrik Sedin. Guess Mats lacked hockey IQ. Man, if only the Leafs could have traded Mats for a real playoff performer.
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by Draglikepull on Nov 9, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
you can’t make the SSSA argument when you’re the ones saying their playoff scoring is as good as their regular season scoring. fact is it isnt
it doesn’t matter if you look at the last 3 years or their whole careers, they’ve been worse in the playoffs
Do you believe Sundin had a low hockey IQ?
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I think “Hockey IQ” definitely exists but to me is more of a descriptive term.
Its like if you take 4 30 goal scorers. One could have the hardest and most accurate shot, one could have the quickest and most deceptive release, one could have the highest hockey IQ (knows where to be and when), and one could be the best deker…
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Ovechkin has been very succesful in the playoffs. Just not his team.
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His GPG and PPG
Regular Season
0.63 1.28
Playoffs
0.68 1.35
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enigmatic Russians, what are you going to do lol
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No one has ever said that about Ovie
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If he were more clutch he’d have scored twice as much in the playoffs when it mattered.
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"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
I loved when they lost to Halak, people were complaining about him but he had 5 goals and 10 points in 7 GP. What the hell do they want from him?
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Not have one of his linemates register only 2 assists in 7 games?
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Thats his fault?
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That was kinda the point of my comment. It wasn’t his fault.
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Semin was garbage in that series
Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
by Chris Stoikoff on Nov 9, 2011 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
He was apparently injured.
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Ovechkin has been very succesful in the playoffs. Just not his team.
Ovechkin has failed to score at least one goal on every shot in the playoffs. As such, he has been slumping like a Kessel, that streaky, good-for-nothing, chosen-last-in-the-All-Star game bum of a league-leading scorer.
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by jrwendelman on Nov 9, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m aware of Ovi’s stats (he was an easy dig due to the team’s exit) just don’t get the knock on the Sedins. They faced much tougher opponents and are in the same PPG ballpark as Malkin and higher than Toews, to cite those listed
Fair enough, I just can’t stand the knock of Ovi in the playoffs.
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No prob dude
I assume good faith with most and you’ve been around plenty.
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I’m not necessarily knocking them, they were just the first players I could think of. Stamkos was pretty invisible in the playoffs too. I just think teams have figured out that they score one-dimensionally and have figured out how to defend against them—at least the good teams have. If they’re truely elite they’d work around that
Also I wanted to see if those were true. Strangely, the Sedins have been a lot better than I thought.. in the last 3 years they were around PPG. They’re older than Malkin and Toews though so have more experience to get it together. When they were the same age as Malkin and Toews they were ineffective. Here are their career stats:
Malkin – 62GP 73P: 1.18ppg
Toews – 46GP 46P: 1.00ppg
Zetterberg – 104GP 99P: 0.95ppg
H. Sedin – 90GP 66P: 0.73ppg
D. Sedin – 90GP 62P: 0.69ppg
Then you’ve got players like OV and Crosby who are just always good
Crosby – 62GP 82P: 1.32ppg
Ovechkin – 37GP 50P: 1.35ppg
This is playoffs, correct?
Also, the Sedins have benefited from having had the same linemate for 12 years now. There’s something to be said for the chemistry you can build with somebody you’re extremely familiar with. You can actually go back further to their youth as they have been playing together their whole lives.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 9, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
no worries man
last year they did a lot to increase their ppg,
the last two years actually.
for their first 10 years they were basically putting up 0s
Same w/ Donk’s regular season numbers. So goes Daniel, so go their stats
Also, did they sell their souls to the devil during the lockout or something? Both took massive leaps in development after playing for Modo
I just think they were slower developing. Not everyone develops at the exact same pace (peak at 25 than start to decline). To me they were just slower getting there…
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This is exactly it
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
What you should do is compare it to their regular season PPG…
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I think it is as many may assume their regular season PPG for their career is around point per game when in fact its about 0.8
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Because their first few years
Weren’t very productive and drag down the totals
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
How much of that is just randomness over a short sample. Lonny Bohonos had 9 pts in 9 games for us and was never heard of again.
Not sure, I’m sure you could dig something out of hockey-reference regarding how many players follow a big playoff performance and then had less than 2 more seasons in the nhl or something like that.
But look last year at guys like Purcell for TB. Normally an afterthought when looking at the TB roster but he had breakout playoff performances. Now he’s confirmed his own belief that he can be an impact player. He’s got that confidence and he’s keeping it rolling into this season. All of a sudden he’s an impact player. I want the Leafs’ young guys to gain that experience.
BORSCHEVSKY CLUTCH
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by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Saddest random injury for me is a toss-up between Karel Pilar’s weird heart defect and Yushkevich’s blood disease
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by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I thought it was Luca Cereda with the heart problem
If you look up "Loyalty" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of a Leafs fan wearing a Todd Gill jeresy looking like he just got punched in the stomach
Pilar got a heart virus or something and couldn’t do any strenuous physical activity
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I might be misremembering but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a congenital thing
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by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
I just googled it, turns out we are both right. Both had a heart problem that prevented play.
If you look up "Loyalty" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of a Leafs fan wearing a Todd Gill jeresy looking like he just got punched in the stomach
Sigh.
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by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t find to much information but it looks like he had viral endocarditis (viral infection of the heart). However there could have been a congenital problem increasing his risk.
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Whatever it was it was weird.
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by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
whoa, whoa, who was talking about Chris Mason? He blows.
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Hard to assess talent when you have shitty goalies behind them. Are they bad players? Or is every decent shot going in?
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by PPP on Nov 9, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Is it really that hard to assess talent? I mean, it is if you’re just looking at the stats, but if coaches and player development personnel are watching what individual players are doing, I like to think they can have a decent sense of how good those players are. Otherwise, what are we paying them for?
Come get your duds in order...
I think it can colour an assessor’s viewpoint if what they are doing is resuting in goals.
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by PPP on Nov 9, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Possibly. But if it’s introducing such a substantial bias that we need to spend picks or prospects to acquire a goalie just so that management can properly assess players, we’re in a world of trouble. Especially when we’re talking about a backup or at most 1B guy, given that Reimer probably isn’t out for the season.
Come get your duds in order...
7th seed would be great. I’d do it.
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by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think if we stick with the carousel of laughs we have in our system right now for goal (Rynnas is up next, if there’s no deal, I bet) we’ll end up tanking. But since Burke has a mental block and can’t stand taking a top 5 pick, Burke will pick up a spare goalie off waivers at the deadline… we miss the lottery…. you know the drill.
the only upside would be Wilson’s head as a Christmas present.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
the only upside would be Wilson’s head as a Christmas present.
YOu have said this numerous times.
Please present your argument on A) who would be better right now B) Why Wilson should be fired
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oh come on we have one game where we kill both penalties and suddenly our special teams problems are solved? The powerplay sucks. The PK sucks. We can’t win against trap playing teams. Those are all coaching problems, and Wilson is ultimately responsible for these failures.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
oh come on we have one game where we kill both penalties and suddenly our special teams problems are solved?
DIdn’t say it did.
The powerplay sucks.
Agreed
The PK sucks
Any PK is gonna suck when you have a goalie playing like Gus has been
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I am of a pretty mixed opinion of Wilson
He has done a good job of developing our young players and I like that. But I don’t know how succesfull he has been at creating winning systems. For example our PK and PP have been consistently pretty poor under him
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you don’t know that he’s done a good job of developing our young players though.
They’ve developed sure, but Schenn is in a similiar spot to where he used to be.
The rest of the players have developed—Kessel is great, Kulemin is good, etc etc
but how do you know that another coach wouldn’t be getting even more out of them?
According to the lede photo, Wilson appears to have developed Ben into a promising young enforcer.
“I need you to go out there and take care of that thing we talked about.”
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Nov 9, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
the PP is average
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Not anymore. It dropped to below 20th I believe and Bourne pointed out yesterday we are averaging less than a shot/pp. Only team in the league…
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Yeah, less than one shot per power play is embarassing.
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ah, it was something like 17th before yesterdays game, havent checked since
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by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I was saying the same thing (its average) until I saw that Bourne article… Plus with it having fallen with the last 2 games, I stopped defending it.
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I’ve been saying it sucks by seeing how pathetic they enter the zone and how they setup
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it’s all JM Liles fault
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by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
atta kid
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0-for-last-10
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 9, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
was like 16th i believe before the last 2 games. Down to 20th before last nights game.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
It may be “average” according to the %, but the PP sucks.
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Im more concerned about the PK anyways
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by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
It must have been agony for Burke, drafting the Sedins.
Come get your duds in order...
by The Bag on Nov 9, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He moved hell and high water to get those picks…
Anywho he has drafted 13 players in the first round. 4/13 have been top 5, which is more than 1/6th so historically he has drafted in the top 5 more often than would be predicted…
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Playing in front of a terrible goaltender can be bad for the development of the rest of the young players. You want them to learn that if they prevent good chances from the opposition, they tend to keep goals out. If the lesson they learn is that goals go in the net pretty much whatever you do, then they don’t grow into better defenders.
Who are actual reasonable targets?
Clemmenson
Nabakov
LaBarbera?
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
Reimer isn’t even practicing and this shit could get sour fast. Toronto are a bad week and a half from being out of a playoff spot. This is not a comfortable spot in the standings by any measurement.
Burke needs to make a deal or sign a veteran goalie immediately. Gustavsson has not shown once in the last two years that he’s an NHL quality goalie. I want to claw my face off every time he lets in 4 goals and says to reporters he felt good. If that’s feeling good this guy is not fit to play.
And have much larger contracts
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
I’m not sure who the answer is, just that we need an answer. Teams are getting great goaltending from guys who the league gave up on in the past. Smith, Anderson, Elliot… even Lehtonen was in the dumps and now leads the NHL in wins.
My point is that there are goaltenders available who have had success in the NHL. That’s at least a start. Gustavsson has never has any success.
Time to make a move. Even if Reimer is back in two weeks, we’ll need a decent back-up for the rest of the season.
Gerber
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
He can guarantee we will at least be out of the draft lottery!
by Saint Pats Sundin on Nov 9, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
That’s actually a reasonable plan. He’s still in Edmonton isn’t he? Because Bulin totally won’t regress they can afford to trade him for peanuts.
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"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
He’s in Sweden this year. Not sure if he has an out-clause
by Saint Pats Sundin on Nov 9, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
He’s signed with the SEL. He only signed a 1-year deal with Edmonton last year.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Lindback.
Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?
by ohshrit on Nov 9, 2011 1:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Clearly the best solution is to have Felix Potvin’s soul take over Gustavsson’s body via astral projection, and transplant Belfour’s brain (he’s in town anyway) into Owuya’s head for a viable back-up option.
Scrivens and Rynnas get valuable experience in the minors until possessed-Owuya goes on a 3-day cocaine and hookers bender and Felix Potvin inevitably has to return to his physical body so his wife doesn’t get worked up over his trance-like state. Reimer should also be healed by then to take over the starters job, well-rested and inspired to lead the Leafs to their 14th Stanley Cup championship this Spring.
by Jo4nny on Nov 9, 2011 1:29 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Well obviously we re-sign Gustavsson for cheap, because when he wakes up we tell him he had a terrible year and he believes us, then Johnny Bower agrees to leave his aging, physical body – ostensibly dying but in fact simply transferring his soul into Gustavsson’s body. Bower will have some sway with the big guy upstairs, obvously, who will allow Gustavsson’s soul to be released for reincarnation back in Sweden.
We roll with a tandem of Reimer and Bower-soul-possessed-Gusty for a repeat Stanley Cup championship next season (and possibly in perpetuity until we hit 30 Stanley Cups, at which point we mock the Habs mercilessly for being terrible).
by Jo4nny on Nov 9, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m in
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
GOALIES I’D TAKE OVER GUS:
-Trevor Kidd
-J.S. Aubin
-A Drunk Ed Belfour
-Zombie Georges Vezina
-Jim Carey
-Jim Carrey
-That guy who played Goldberg in the Mighty Ducks movies.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Nov 9, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
The biggest problem I have on that list...
-Trevor Kidd
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
He was a 3.10 and .893 SV% as a Leaf. Even THAT is better than Gus…and that was what we thought to be downright terrible at the time. If only we knew….
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Nov 9, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
I think if we’re going to upgrade, we’d be better off with
-A Drunk Ed Belfour
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
Wait...
… there are other kinds of Ed Belfour?
Trevor Kidd might have cost us a Stanley Cup in 2004. Imagine if we had finished first instead of fourth? We’d have waltzed to the Finals like Tampa Bay!
Omg the teams Tampa played in the first two rounds were SO TERRIBLE
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Islanders and the Montreal Jose Theodores? I’d say that was harder than the Sens and Flyers.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Nov 9, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
And by harder, i mean easier.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Nov 9, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
also add to the list:
-the 4 bullseyes used in the All-Star game for the target competition.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 9, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if we’ll see the return of the waffles if this nonsense keeps up
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
If someone throws waffles at a 9-5-1 team they should be smacked
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I hereby set the “Panic line” as Sunday. Because if you can’t score on the Ottawa Senators*, you clearly can’t score against anyone. And if you can’t play defense or score goals, you’re the Columbus Blue Jackets. And you don’t want that.
* -Only applies to players not named “Phil Kessel”
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
I wouldn’t panic, but i wouldn’t put it past our moronic fanbase
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
so does Wendel Bark if I remember the picture correctly.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Just for context, the Blackhawks have also lost their last two by a 9-2 margin. I doubt the sky is falling for them right now.
Not that the Leafs aren’t without their problems, but….
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
they also have the worst PP in the league.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
The Hawks also have their starter right?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Crawford played both games, yes.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Nov 9, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
So saying at this time,
The Blackhawks are also a better team than the Leafs.
isn’t really fair, right? We don’t have our #1 goalie, #1C, and best checker/shit disturber (Armstrong), what else am I missing?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
a good Luke Schenn playing 20 minutes a night
@phoking_awesome
by pho king awesome on Nov 9, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think for me it comes down to what’s the best estimate of how long Reimer’s gone for.
Based on the current evidence, I wouldn’t expect Reimer to be back before the end of the month.
So if you think he’ll be back sometime between Thanksgiving & Christmas, you go the veteran route and try and get a Nabokov, a CLemmensen, a Biron, a Brent JOhnson. Somebody who is a veteran UFA that can carry the mail for a 10 game stretch and be a capable backup when Reimer’s back.
If we’re talking the New Year or later before Reimer’s back, I think you’ve got to go after a goalie in another organization that probably needs to go outside that organization to move up in their careers. This would be guys like Cory Schneider, Sergei Bobrovsky, Jonathan Bernier, and they are going to cost more.
There is no Option C because the Leafs can’t afford to let a 4th straight season slip away because management neglected the goaltending. Gustavsson’s past the point where we can project him to be an NHL goaltender, and Scrivens clearly isn’t ready for this yet.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Scrivens is old too though, the problem with undrafted UFAs is if you wait three years to evaluate you’ll be past their prime.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Scrivens is 25. Gustavsson is 27.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
So I have a question (it may come off as stupid)
What is the prime age for a goalie?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
That's a little late:
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
by JP Nikota on Nov 9, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Er, marginal reply fail.
That was supposed to be a reply to Chemmy. A near miss.
At least my reply Corsi still looks go.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
Good.
Dammit.
Oh well, there’s your graph. That’s for 10 years worth of data, too.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
The graph pretty clearly labels it as 44 years of data.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
26-31 then.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Yeah that 29 year seems like a bit anomalous
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
Burke’s also said he owes it to Wilson to give him the best team possible so he can earn a new contract. That plus his pride tells me he is not going to let this situation slide.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck talking about “his pride”.
Us saying his pride causes him to do things is as much of building a narrative as all the bullshit we call the MSM guys out for.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Burke is not a robot. Taking personality into account may just be building a narrative to you but I think it makes a difference when it comes to off-ice decisions. On the ice, sure it’s stupid to say the Sedins suck because “they don’t have heart” or something but off the ice it’s another story.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Saying that he’s going to make a personnel move “Because of his pride” with a) no other evidence to back it up; and b) no other factors affecting the situation, is building a narrative. I don’t know what else to tell you.
I guarantee you he doesn’t sit in his office and say “Gee I’d really like to make this move to help my hockey team, but MY PRIDE. She won’t let me!”
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Fine. I’m not his psychiatrist. I’m just a fan. But if you think GMs only make decisions based purely on quantitative analysis then I guess you’ve never heard of Mike Milbury.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
That’s building a narrative.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just being a dick at this point but saying Milbury did things because he was stupid and saying Burke does things because of his pride are both “building narratives” unless A: we see Milbury’s IQ score and B: Burke wears a pride-o-meter
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
It’s an established narrative. But remember around here we never build narratives. So why is it valid? Wait, does this mean that we accept that sometimes, maybe, GMs make decisions because of something other than quantitative analysis? Oh, okay.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure a glance at Milbury’s track record would convert anyone to the view that he is a terrible, terrible GM. One of the worst in recent memory.
I’m not arguing that Milbury wasn’t a terrible GM. I’m just saying that, if the idea is that “narratives” are never valid then what makes it valid to say that Milbury made mistakes because he was stupid? That is building a narrative. Anyway my whole point, I think, was that Burke may let his feelings cloud his decision making. Which I do not think is that outlandish a position in the grand scheme of things.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
It’s actually not building a narrative so much as defining terms… someone says Milbury is stupid, and then goes on to explain that what they mean by “stupid” is making many stupid decisions over a long period of time. This is not an unreasonable definition.
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
the phrase “Mike Milbury is an idiot” is shorter and more to the point than “Mike Milbury was not good at his job.” In one case, we have the advantage of hindsight, and, given the state of the Isles, can actually say that “Mike Milbury was not good at his job.” There’s no speculation – Milbury came into a team and made it worse. Phenomenally and fantastically worse. That, combined with his commentary that has shown him to be a fucking moron, is enough to call him an idiot in my book.
The problem with building thoughts around Burke’s personality is that, I assume, no one here actually knows Burke personally. For a man especially known for bluster and misdirection, you can’t really assert that Gustavsson is here because Burke feels ownership / pride in his play – he might still be here because Allaire demands more time, or because there’s no market to replace him, or for any number of reasons. So to say that Gus is here because Brian Burke is proud of bringing an .890 goaltender into the organization…well, it’s speculative and it’s building a narrative that may or may not exist (more likely not).
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
That’s not what I said though. I said that Burke may feel that he owes Wilson to give him a good team to work with. He’s also shown pride in wanting his team to win in the past, even when it was not advantageous: see when he claimed Gerber and basically pushed the Leafs out of the lottery.
Well, that and frigging Boyd Devereaux.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
And Burke publicly said at the beginning of the season he has not given Wilson a good enough team to succeed in the past.
I don’t think you can ever truly quantify pride or stupidity, but are they factors? I think so.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right, I misread your earlier comment and missed the mark regarding the mythical Gustavsson plot lines. But the point about which is problematic “narrative building” stands. Most importantly: Mike Milbury is a fucking idiot.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
there is also Mike Milbury on tv every week saying stupid things
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t argue with that.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like we can officially add ‘building a narrative’ to the list of PPP ways to dismiss a point / opinion.
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
by daoust on Nov 9, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Theres a lot of these around here.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Stop building a narrative.
Also, well written and logically flowing narratives are fun. No need to hang on to them for dear life.
I do find the world a little boring without them.
Everyone has a story to tell, right?
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
For a year and half, Burke’s defended Wilson by saying he (Wilson) required capable players and capable goaltending in order to effectively assess his performance.
If he passes on another opportunity to address the root cause of the Leafs problems since the lockout, I would make a pretty strong case Burke needs to be relieved of his duties as GM.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
So we can weather another five year rebuild cut short because the team didn’t make the playoffs?
This is insanity.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Unless if a new GM comes in and continues what Burke has done…
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
No, I’d hand the car keys over to Nonis.
Burke’s put the team on the right path but if he can’t cut bait on guys he’s brought in then that’s a problem.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Francois Beauchemin and Kris Versteeg say, “sup?”
Also, Wilson was pre-Burke.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Beauchemin got us great assets for a player who was great at his position, but who wasn’t going to help us longer-term. Versteeg just never fit in (I have no stats to back it up, I’m pretty sure that’s what Burke said and it’s how I felt about him too)
My point still stands, that Burke has cut bait on guys he’s brought in.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Then the failure to address the Gustavsson issue would be doubly damning.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
no one would be unaffected, number ones are number ones for a reason
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
that has more to do with Brodeur not being very good
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Teams with a good prospect as their backup off the top of my head are Boston, Buffalo, Nashville (at least he did well last year), Florida, Vancouver, LA, Minni* (do you call him a prospect? /shrug), Philly (we’ll see how Bob does this year).
Teams with a reliable back up but a much better starter:
Pittsburgh, NYR.
I am not saying these teams would be in good shape (they wouldn’t), but they wouldn’t be as destroyed as the rest of the league would be.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Also
If Burke can’t get rid of guys he acquired, Brett Lebda is wondering why he was traded for two guys with a combined +/- of -12 in 19 games.
Hey, Lebda himself was only -14, and that took 41 games. What the hell?
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Nov 9, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I would hope a new GM could build from what Burke has started.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
That is the risk though. One that I wouldn’t be comfortable with atm.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
You don’t need to go get a new GM. You need to put somebody else in charge to continue building from Burke’s blueprint.
That guy is already in the org and it’s Nonis.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I was speaking generally. I agree.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Too Funny
“We need a GM who can fleece like Burke, can grow a team like Burke, can do all things Burke
but is Not Burke"
Be happy with what you have – a Burke.
Burke has said several times that he would NEVER allow one of his teams to fall into the same mess he had in Vancouver with Dan Cloutier.
OOPS.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
With Rynnas, Scrivens, and Owuya all there but not quite ready, this is a slightly different mess.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
If Reimer wasn’t selling that collision so hard, the strategy of getting as many prospects as possible to see if one pans out would be looking a bit better. It’s too bad he’s putting so much effort into acting hurt.
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
YOU BUYIN’ THIS YET, GLENN HEALEY?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
I can’t find it in the audio, maybe it’s been cut out.
But during an interview with fan 590 in September (I think it was the one from the 28th), Burke said he believes in Reimer and Gus, but that if things don’t work out, there are other options in goal, and I’m paraphrasing here, ‘they just involve moving assets’
Burke’s been open to a trade for a while; I wonder what he’s waiting for. A “third strike” for Gus or Scrivens? Because either one is going to s*** the bed in St. Louis.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Trading from weakness does not often work out very well.
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
yep and the deeper hole we get into with Joker, and his sidekick, Joker, in net, the weaker our position will be for a trade.
Burke should have found a deal and pulled the trigger today. There are options out there.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
like what? scott fucking clemenson?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Clemmenson is clearly propped up by Mike Weaver.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Mike weaver is the only reason Florida hasn’t receded into the ocean
Mike Weaver shuts down the waves
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Mike Weaver is probably why we lost last night.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
I did recall hm blocking at least 1 shot.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
He had an assist as well. Cruel goddamn world.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
whether it’s after another blowout against St. Louis, or maybe after a blowout against Ottawa, I betcha you’ll be begging for Clemmenson.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
remember that time he put up an 839 for the Leafs?
no thanks
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
.917, .912, and .911 with New Jersey and then Florida.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
he only puts up average goaltending behind weaver, god he sucks
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not ashamed to admit that ever since typing trap, trap, Weaver I have Vanilla Ice stuck in my head.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Yes you are.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Frontin: it’s bad for a hockey player
Mike Weaver run this town like the mayor
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Gotta be the best d-man nightly
Trap trap Weaver
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Nov 9, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
we should play the trap fyi
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
agreed, the leafs speed could be lethal on the counter attack, although it would murder Kessels numbers
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
I’d settle for any semblance of a defensive system I recognize.
Our current strategy looks like something Scott Gordon came up with playing too much NHL 11 whlist unemployed
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
you serious?
someone wrote a fan post about that last year. hey, if it transformed an .840 Clemmensen into a .910 Clemmensen, then maybe Gus will transform into Optimus Reim
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
As Clark pointed out our current strategy is terrible.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
can’t disagree there.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Nov 9, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Trap will never happen. Burke has gone on record saying he wants to play an entertaining style of hockey. Can’t say I disagree with him.
Pat Quinn basically got away with the same shit because he had Sundin and solid goalies who would occasionally stand on their head.
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
Diehard fans are, casual fans are not, and it doesn’t do anything to create a long-term appreciation for the game once the winning stops. Ask New Jersey.
Highest to lowest entertainment value:
6-4 win
2-0 win
5-4 OT loss
5-4 regulation loss
2-0 loss
7-0 loss
lebda
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
Yyyyeah, I’m not really worried about scaring off casual Toronto Maple Leafs fans. Hey, maybe if we did trap, ticket prices would come down!
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
I think some people are forgetting the kind of hokey that won Leafs Cups, and a huge fan base. Defensive as hell, smothering big D-men, forwards who backchecked and forechecked.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Sure but why would FLA trade him?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Nov 9, 2011 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
there aren’t options if the price isn’t right. People know we need goaltending, so the price is going to be higher.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
What if Reimer is back within two weeks? We have a logjam behind him already, and Scrivens may still be a prospect. If there’s a decent option, for a decent price, then fine, but I have yet to see that option and that price.
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
I don’t consider Scrivens, Gustavsson, Rynnas, Owuya a logjam.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
This is like our mythical “logjam” on defence.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
there is a log jam, of offensive guys who cant shut anyone down
and of defensive guys who cant shut anyone down
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Its a logjam of prospects more than NHLers (for both).
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
The logjam of prospects in the AHL for leafs defenceman who may amount to anything more than a 5-6 defenceman is prolly at 2.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Accept we have a lot of those “may be 5 or 6 defenseman” plus Finger and Lashoff and they all need playing time. To me thats the log jam. Its the same thing with the goalies. With 3 prospects not in the NHL (when Reimer is healthy) we only have playing time for two of them in the AHL.
I am not saying we have this huge surplus of quality (we don’t). I am saying we have a lot of quantity which makes it difficult to give them all enough game time to properly develop.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
I am saying we have a lot of quantity which makes it difficult to give them all enough game time to properly develop.
I disagree.
If the leafs brass know a player isn’t going to be a key player going forward then fuck his playing time and give it to someone who will.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Everyone has lots of quantity. Teams almost all have the same number of roster players. Quality is all that matters, and the Leafs defence doesn’t have it.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Aulie and Blacker. Thats it for the Marlies. I have no hope for any of the others to become anything more than 5-6 defenceman
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
You can add Percy to that list next year, surely, no?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 9, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’m talking about right now.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I still think Mikus could surprise
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
reminds me more of that game, kerplunk, where all the little sticks hold the marbles up
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
dude check this shit out it’s Kerplunk but with monkeys
TUMBLIN MONKEYS
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
mother of god…I need that like my next beer
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeap. Scrivens needs at least the rest of the year in the AHL, Rynnas as well. Fire Gustavsson into the Sun and there’s a nice availability for someone who could actually make saves.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
If Burke makes a trade Gustavsson either goes the other way (unlikely) or gets released. That solves the logjam part.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
How do you release someone mid season? Just pay out their contract, but they’re not allowed to play in the majors or minors?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
you waive them but tell them they don’t have to report to the AHL, they’re off the books (salary cap) etc. I believe this is what the Hab’s did to Laraque.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Or subtly encourage him to go back to Sweden.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
They bought him out at the end of the season. They just told him don’t bother showing up.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Wait you can release them and they no longer count against the cap
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
When you waive someone they go off the cap. But after that I believe it is up to the team whether or not the player needs to report to the AHL. If not, they can go play in the K or somewhere else in Europe or whatever.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
It’d be nice to get something back for Gustavsson but I’m not expecting to.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
“Here’s the worst goalie in the league. He has medical problems too. What will you give us so that you can lose games?”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Steve Mason
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
as opposed to the normal course, when teams trade for players the don’t need.
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Nov 9, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
No way Burke gets fired while he’s still got term left on his contract.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Damien Cox today
The Oilers moved to a sizzling 9-3-2 on the season Tuesday night in Montreal with a workmanlike 3-1 triumph over the struggling Canadiens and look greater value for their spiffy early-season record than, it’s fair to say, Brian Burke’s Maple Leafs.
This is what goaltending does to media narratives.
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
Darren Pang said this morning
That he wouldn’t be surprised if Khabi kept up this pace and was a Vezina nominee.
I did a bit of a double take
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
Are we as hockey fans getting smarter or are these guys getting dumber?
Can Khabi win a Vezina? Stranger things have happened.
Is he going to keep up a 0.98 GAA for an entire season? If he’s playing in a beer league maybe.
Good Lord.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
24th in the league with 2.29 goals per game. Yeah, simply sizzling. Boy this team is amazing!!!!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Young team, still learning how to play together, lots of promise…..
Meanwhile the Leafs are the youngest team in the NHL.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Are they youngest? I know they were second last year.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Says they are 3rd behind the Jets and Preds but the margin is tiny so basically they are with Injuries and call ups etc.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
without Connolly in the lineup I believe we are.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
That makes sense.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
think he’s the only player we have over 30 so he bumps our avg age up when he’s in the lineup.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Isn’t Liles 31?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
then there’s 2. Komi’s close to 30 also i believe.. nope 29 just looked him up.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I read in the hockey news the other day that the leafs are the youngest. sorry, no link, it was the actual magazine.
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Nov 9, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Weird that Gardiner is the only player under 23 and we are youngest. Seems like Oil has a bunch of forwards under 23.
by scott tubbesing on Nov 9, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Balanced out by a bunch of old fogies like Andy Sutton and Ryan Smyth.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
and Khabby’s ancient mummy corpse
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Skinny haven’t you learned numbers aren’t important. Only feelings.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
FTFY
If it can’t be graphed, it doesn’t matter.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Oilers next six games
@Boston
@Detriot
@Chicago
vOttawa
vChicago
@Dallas
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Even if they go 2-4 they’ll still be 11-7-2. Crazy to think the Oilers would be that good by US Thanksgiving, when 90% of the teams in a playoff spot stay there.
by scott tubbesing on Nov 9, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
If they only get 14 shots from a ‘workmanlike’ effort then I sure hope they never take a game off.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Nov 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Alex Auld hasn’t played for the Leafs yet.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
HEY! You could have Hall of Famer Martin Brodeur!
Harding’s still promising but I doubt he’ll be dealt or let go
He’s a UFA this year and I think he’ll want to leave either by trade or UFA signing.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
I really want Montoya
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
I know, but man he would be perfect fit. Young goalie, some NHL success with huge upside
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Actually he is a UFA, don’t know how he feels about the island
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
They are the team that finally gave him his chance so maybe he feels some loyalty. No idea.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Nash’d & Tavares’d
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
They’re a little different because they stayed with the team that drafted them. Montoya was a top prospect who’s stalk fell because of poor AHL play and he got tossed aorund the league, until NYI’s goalie injury problems last year.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
No idea what this means.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
DAMNIT
Stock*
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Good thing no one around here keeps stalk of these things.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
The Leafs held a team meeting…..I hope they talked about how they have been playing like garbage.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
They probably talked about which of them was playing goalie next game.
I vote Mike Brown.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Frank D’Angelo is my current pick.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
That save is why Ziggy and Caputi are in the AHL. They can’t even score on that guy
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
His save percentage in those commercials has been pretty impressive over the years.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
How ’bout the Racicot dad from the Racicot Chrysler commercials? He seems to have some potential.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 9, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not familiar with his work.
Is it Andre Racicot?
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Pure cheesy goodness
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, they were discussing what theme to use for this years Christmas party.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 9, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Your Goalie UFA market currently looks like "Nabokov or Turco"
Both are underachievers. You will probably overpay for them.
Look we all knew, said, admitted, and repeated, that this team hinged on Reimer’s ability to keep pucks out of the net, because Giguere is gone and there’s no safety net in G. Well, it happened. Fingernail biting time.
Also, lol at the “fire Burke” comments. Not a week ago, Burke was being praised for his vision and dealmaking. The team gets plowed twice, so fire the GM? It’s a good thing we can sit on the sidelines and bitch – Leafnation is way too neurotic to run a franchise by committee.
by BubbaLou on Nov 9, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Except Nabokov isn’t a UFA.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
So all there is is Turco?
Is that true?
Then, why the hell is this a talking point? There’s literally nothing out there until the end of the season.
Trades…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Yeah the whole thread is based on rumours out of New York that Nabokov might be available for a second, is it not?
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Well, from a fan perspective, it’s easy to see why Nabokov would hate the Islanders. He basically got waiver sniped and even refused to play at one point.
Nabokov was only average with the Sharks too.
But what if you can’t orchestrate a clean deal? What if getting nabokov requires player-assets? I still think it’s a waste of time TBH
?
Nabokov was only average with the Sharks too.
This is true in the playoffs, but definitely not true in the regular season…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
It’s like when people in my office said Connolly was a poor playoff performer. Let’s get there first before worrying about that.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Nov 9, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
He also single handed beat the Flyers one year and would have beat the Senators had they not broke him. (He also had a 45% shooting percentage. Booyah.)
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Average is like five wins better than our goaltending.
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I don’t think its any more a waste of time than anything else we discuss here. Besides, our goaltending at the moment is god awful. I don’t see why when a rumour starts floating around about addressing that (from a reasonably credible source) that it shouldn’t generate discussion.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
It just seems like so much effort to chase an average goalie, in a crappy goalie market, from a position of weakness.
When the real solution is kiss Reimer’s boo-boo until it’s better.
Fair enough. I’m really of the opinion that it should have been addressed over the offseason. But what are ya gonna do.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Trying to use my brain cell to recall…
Wasn’t the goalie market pretty small, and contested, last offseason? Management made it clear they wanted Reimer as “the guy”, and we all just sort of made a note – No vet in net – and moved on.
Reactionary moves are pretty awful. And who’s to say the Islanders even let nabokov go, given that DiPietro is broken more than a mid-80’s italian sportscar?
What if he is out a month? And we are running Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum in 5-0 blowouts.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Yakupov is a pretty good replacement for Lupul
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Knowing our luck we would lose the lottery, and he will end up on the Sens or something
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
then we still get grigorenko or forsberg or something
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the Leafs are bad enough to be in the bottom 5. You almost have to try to suck
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
And now Edmonton’s suddenly doing great this year. Future powerhouse?
But that’s how the Pens developed into a powerhouse.
- Pick in 2003 to get Fleury
- Pick in 2004 to get Malkin (They really were the worse but “lost” out in the lottery and ended up with Pick #2)
- Pick in 2005 to get Crosby (as they had the worse record during the previous 3 years — lockout year)
- Pick on 2006 to get Staal
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Format fail here:
Penguin pick history
1st pick in 2003
2nd pick in 2004
1st pick in 2005
1st pick in 2006
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Maybe, maybe not. Edmonton’s doing great currently on the back of 960 goaltending. My only point is that it’s HARD to be that bad. Wasn’t making a commentary on drafting being the only way to build a winner, which is what all these arguments end up devolving into.
Counter-example:
Atlanta pick history:
1999 #1
2000 #2
2001 #1
2002 #2
2008 #3
2009 #4
Playoff games won? Zero. And now they’re in Winnipeg. And they still stink.
Variable(s) to consider: Incompetent management, poor scouting.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Fleury is probably not in the top 5 of players picked in that round.
Malkin I completely agree with you.
Crosby- They won a lottery. There was literally a ball pulled out that had their team name on it…
4. All three of the players picked after him are better than him. It was a bad pick (Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel).
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Even Fleury and Staal helped the Pens. But, then again, Staal’s been limited to 3rd line duty since they already had Crosby and Malkin.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
They were bad picks. The Pens won the cup because of (a) Malkin and (b) winning a lottery.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Then again, the Pens needed a goalie badly. Granted, there were plenty of better picks available and it’s dicey to use a 1st rounder for a goalie. But it would be scary to think about the Pens with Getzlaf or Richards
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
If you are curious who I think is better than Fleury from that round
E Staal, Vanek, Carter, Parise, Richards, Getzlaf, Perry
And potentially:
Suter, Phaneuf, Burns, Seabrooke.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
God that was a good year
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
NSFW
I hate the fucking Penguins and their "team-building. It’s bullshit.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
More than that, didn’t they fall off in the early part of the decade because they were going bankrupt and had to shed talent? I really don’t think it was part of some master plan to get good on the cheap. They lucked out, and good for them.
pretty much, if they had been off by one pick in the crosby year where would they be? Bobby ryan would be good on Malkin’s wing and all, but no croz
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
It seems the Pens have the amazing luck to suck at the right time. They were horrible and made trades to make themselves worse so they could draft Mario. (And that’s why they changed the draft to a lottery.)
And then sucked so they ended up with Crosby and Malkin.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Crosby’s the biggest factor and they won a lottery. They had 3 balls: the same chance as Buffalo, Columbus, or the Rangers. A 1 in 16 chance to win. Nowhere near the same as winning the draft lottery when you’re dead last in a normal season.
Anyways, I’m off to my beer league game. I wonder if my goalie will get mad if I refer to him as Monster tonight… (we have the worst GA in the division… by a lot).
coffovechkincoff
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
No they sucked and got Malkin. They got lucky to get Crosby. It was a lottery that EVERYONE IN THE LEAGUE could have won.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
And the Leafs won the test run. :(
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Join the club here. Earlier this year, there was actually a proposal in “The Hockey News” to not let any team with the #1 pick during a given year to get to pick any better than #6 the following year so as to now reward teams for longtime suckitude and they cited the Pens as an example.
Rocking the Red for teams on the banks of the Potomac and at the Gateway Arch and Singing the Blues about Hockey.
Edmonton should definitely be on that list.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 10, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Then we've got to eat that month
Try to scrape out any points we can, and restart-Season.
It’s really precarious right now, but thank goodness we still have some more time.
The difference between average and great goalie is smaller than the difference between our Gus and average.
Great= 0.925
Average=0.910
Gus=0.878
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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Great – Average: 0.15
Average – Gustavsson: 0.32
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(whistling while tying noose)
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
by SPERO on Nov 9, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Vesa Toskala final season – .880
Gustavsson – .878
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Yep, That’s it for me…….let me just get this here chair ready…….
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
by SPERO on Nov 9, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
quiet you goaltender hoarders
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Let me just pin this here note to my chest and we are on our way.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
by SPERO on Nov 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
2006 Olympian Robert Esche last 24 games – .873
HOORAY I’VE FOUND SOMETHING WORSE
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Whatever happened to him..
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
I've found 11 Leafs goalies who were worse! yayyyyyyyyyy
Though one is Glenn Healy so really its 10 actual people
NOTE WHO IS #1 (#18 cuz its reverse sorted)
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Leafs were real good in the 80’s I see.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
I remember thinking Peter Ing’s mask alone was going to propel the Leafs to the Cup. Sadly, it succeeded only in making him look super cool as he sucked his way out of an NHL career.
Peter Ing did have a sweet mask. When I was real little, I was obsessed with that guy for some reason.
Too bad he was, like you said, not also a sweet goalie.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Conclusively proven with science: James Reimer best goalie since 1983, probably more but they didn’t track stats in the stone ages before 1983.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
and I believe Turco’s been working as an analyst somewhere, doubt he’s in game shape.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
he was also god fucking awful for a good hawks team
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
a decent Hawks team anyway. But he definitely was a rebound machine in Chicago, I’d be nervous about that w/ the way TO’s d has been at clearing traffic in front lately
Leclaire’s problem is he’s constantly injuried. His numbers’ aren’t that bad relatively.
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently been working out with an OHL team.
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Just to keep things straight: there has been exactly one comment in this thread that suggested Burke should be fired, which was not met with general agreement.
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
The comment that suggested Burke be fired was predicated on Burke failing to address a known problem, which seems like it could well be a firable problem.
It was an “if/then” statement, as in IF X happens, THEN Y should happen.
It was not “HARF HARF FIRE BURKE!”
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
isnt accusing him of building a narrative in turn building your own narrative?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
stop trying to distract from the point at hand with this narrative Jared. narrative-builder!
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
I miss straw man.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 9, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
he was just a narrative
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
3SA, but...
this thread is a clear case of pro-leaf confirmation bias regressing to the mean, leading someone to build a straw-man narrative. there is a clear lack of understanding of advanced stats, and no evidence that games are actually being watched. it could also just be bad luck or an outlier thread. or maybe i’m just freaking out.
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
by daoust on Nov 9, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
the drugs don’t work
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think we can all agree that we are screwed for goaltending yet again. Read this whole thread and the conclusion is no matter what we do were screwed. So I propose that we sacrifice a lamb to appease the Gods and pray. The God’s have to have something against us, and if I’m up to date, the Hockey Gods still desire a good old fashioned sacrifice
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Bottom Line
Reimer must return. Fast.
We can run backups and rest him, but he must be playing. Or we’re the same goaltending as last year.
GERBER
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
imagine what life would be like if we hadn't traded rask for raycroft
fuck
looks like this fellow forgot his pants.
imagine what life would be like if it snowed blue raspberry jello!
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
it’d be sticky as balls, we’d be overrun by fucking bees and shit
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’ve always liked that word – viscosity.
I dunno why.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Because it’s a cool ass word. Like a Greek god, but an adjective.
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
mmmm delicious terror
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather donuts.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Honey cruller is my weakness…
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
if I could reach you, I would hit you
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I will murder you all
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
that’s it, I’m getting the axe
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
speaking of contracts with Dallas: Sheldon Souray is currently the number one ranked D in my Fantasy pool.
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
snagged him with my 2nd to last pick in PPPP2
by Nigel Cadbury on Nov 9, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
WAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
@phoking_awesome
by pho king awesome on Nov 9, 2011 4:39 PM EST reply actions
?
Reply fail?
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
I feel so depressed after reading this thread
I’m going to return to my cap floor team with no owner now.
Support Your Local Coyotes Blog - Five For Howling
Mike Smith is our goalie and he’s lights out. It has a lot to do with the system.
Support Your Local Coyotes Blog - Five For Howling
what you guys have in place. Don’t go all sky is falling cuz you lost two games.
Support Your Local Coyotes Blog - Five For Howling
It’s more a continued issue with our goaltenders not named James Reimer
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Nov 9, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
I meant more so in terms of “on ice.” I have my doubts about some of those systems.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
its also an issue where if gus has a great game against st louis its deemed a fluke. He loses it validation
Support Your Local Coyotes Blog - Five For Howling
Exactly. I think Leaf fans have shown very sane patience up until this point with the goaltending situation. Nobody is saying that Reimer ain’t the guy, just that Gustavsson ain’t the guy behind the guy.
Jose Theodore makes $1.5M a year. The guy hasn’t had a losing win/loss since 06/07. I think it was a miss for Burke not to get somebody in this category this summer.
“clusterfuck” isn’t a system
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
what if you do it systematically?
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
unrelated to goaltending, but
Eric Staal has 5 points and is -16 through 15 games. what do you think the odds are Rutherford is dumb enough to let us pry him away, and how many grabovskis and 1st’s would it take for get him?
mere speculation here, nobody shoot me.
looks like this fellow forgot his pants.
He is both not dumb enough to trade his best all-around player and captain and yet also dumb enough to realize that E Staal may have already peaked.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I'm just gonna say it
I don’t think Staal is the best player in that first round. I think Getzlaf is better.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Hard to argue that over the past few years, since Getzlaf has been over a point per game in 4 straight seasons and Staal hasn’t scored above a PPG since the year they won the Cup.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Last year someone said I was crazy for saying that and showed how many more points and goals Staal scored. I said Staal just developed younger.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Staal does score more goals though, which can be valuable. And I do wonder how many points Staal might have put up the past few years if he could have had guys like Perry, Ryan, and Selanne as linemates.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Skinner is not as good as any of those players. He’s good and will be great but he was only 18, and scored the most points as an 18 year old since Crosby largely because of Staal
Except that.......
Skinner only played with Staal for 18% of his ES time. (Most common linemates were Ruutue, LaRose, Cole, and Jokinen)
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Further
Staal was only on the ice for 23 of Skinner’s 63 points. Since hockeyreference isn’t working great at the moment, I can’t see how many of Skinner’s points had Staal factor into them.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Where can you see that on hockey reference?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
us? no, not likely, but if someone offered him the moon
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
I kind of feel it’s closer to .00015396486306
elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly
He does have a taste for Leafs.
/wishful thinking.
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
No.
“Hey, you feel like selling low on your team’s best asset?”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were traded this summer.
Rutherford, assuming he is still the GM after Christmas, may decide that it’s just time to blow shit up.
Unlikely, yes. But impossible, I don’t think so.
I dont think it is impossible he gets traded, I just don’t see the Leafs offering up the winning package
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Agree. But you have to think Rutherford is feeling the heat. The Canes could very well be 14th or 15th in the east if Ward doesn’t pull another god-like season ahead.
If they are headed in that direction of failure, maybe trading Staal for a couple of 20-22 year old players and picks, plus adding a top 5 pick this summer could become attractive.
Would the Leafs be in on it? Probably not. Which I guess was the original question.
Hey, is that my tail I’m chasing?
I imagine if Staal gets moved look at a package like Pronger returned (but larger because he is younger).
Pronger returned:
A legit top 6 (and arguable top 3) winger=Lupul
Anaheim’s last 1st round pick=Sbisa
2 more 1sts.
Also look at the Carter and Richards trades:
Carter:
- overall pick
young top 6 winger who is still improving (previous top 8 pick)
Richards
A top prospect (Schenn)
A 2nd/3rd line tweener winger, who is still developing and some claim could become a top 6 powerforward (I don’t know enough about him to know if this is true)= Simmonds
2nd
So I imagine it would cost something like:
2-3 top prospects/firsts
1-2 roster players who are top 6 and at the oldest in their prime or still improving.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Rutherford is not feeling heat. Why? Because he is one of the 12 investors who just bought 40% of the Hurricanes.
They will not fire him. He will not trade Eric Staal. This speculation is pointless.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
This very idea is incredibly dumb, not to mention he has a terrible contract and a full NTC.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
I am painfully aware of Eric Staal’s stats. I’m currently 5th in a 20-team fantasy league, if Eric Staal was playing like career-average Eric Staal I’m probably in 1st or 2nd.
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
ditto with me and ovechkin.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 9, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
ovechkin please wake up. At this moment Lupal is more valuable on my team then you are
Support Your Local Coyotes Blog - Five For Howling
Best late round pick of my life. Love you Fruit Loops
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
I got Vanek in the 7th or 8th round. Unreal.
I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.
I got vanek in 3 out of 4 drafts. 66th 67th and 69th.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 10, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Reimer, Please come back soon. I’m a grown ass man, forced to nearly cry every game because…….Well we suck without you. We suck so bad. Oh so bad. So if you creep these kinds of sites, just know, we really need you. Like desperately.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
I’m sure your plea will heal him.
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
A goalie is clearly a necessity
Especially when you consider we’re banking on reimer being able to return to form after this injury. This type of injury leaves me nervous that it will take him time to not only return to the ice, but to return to the quality level he was performing at before.
What is life without hope?
by danishmarshmallow on Nov 9, 2011 7:37 PM EST reply actions
Anyone know of any Shinny in the GTA area on wednesdays?
@phoking_awesome
by pho king awesome on Nov 9, 2011 7:47 PM EST reply actions
nice! do a lot of people show up?
@phoking_awesome
by pho king awesome on Nov 9, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
hmm i was looking for something for a couple people. Thanks though!
@phoking_awesome
by pho king awesome on Nov 9, 2011 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
I really wanted this guy to do well but....
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 7:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
For those in Canada and who are interested
This is a legitimate (read legal) stream of the Ott/NYR on TSN
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Its on TSN’s website…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Really?
Sweet. I get TSN at home, but otherwise that would make me really happy.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Also if anyone is a Rogers customer they can watch all Sportsnet games online as well legally. Rogers customer applies to any service you have with them. When you combine that with the TSN legal streams and CBC you don’t need to break the law.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Even a cell phone plan?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
yes sir, any of their customers. Found that out recently. Just need to sign into the rogersondemand.com
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Wait what? That’s amazing. So if I have a Rogers cell phone plan I can legally watch all of their games online? Just log in on their website? That’s brilliant.
Come get your duds in order...
All the games on Sportsnet, there is like 28 of them
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
No worries, my buddy brought it to my attention in the Summer(i’m a big Jays fan as well). Found out they were doing it with the Leafs as well. It has a great video quality as well.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Jesus I used “as well” 3 times there. Gotta grab some more coffee
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
you will be drinking some coffee as well?
Raycroft! I like the move. Falls inline with the push for youth and is a solution for the future. Trading Rask was unfortunate, but with Pogge and Raycroft only being 26, I think the TO goaltending future is a bright one. - Some guy from 2006
by Chuck Diesel on Nov 10, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I actually gouged mine out last night.
by Self Destructive Zones on Nov 9, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Darn canooks and their exculsive coverage!
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Nov 10, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I dont know if anyone's watching the Philly vs Tampa game
but tampa gets into the 1-3-1 neutral zone trap and refuses to forecheck. Philly refuses to carry it in. So both teams stand and stare at eachother for a good 10 seconds.
Refs call a face-off in Philly’s zone.
This has happened twice now. Philly coach is apoplectic
I’ve seen 1-3-1’s before but not like this. Wish the refs would call penalties on both teams and make them go 4v4.
by lucc on Nov 9, 2011 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They are going bananas because it is ridiculous. I’ve never seen this before.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
Well they're kinda playing now
The 1-3-1 forces you to the sides, but if you hit a seam with speed and Philadelphia truculence, it collapses and becomes a regular defence.
I think it’s philly’s fault for not going on offence. They have possession, its up to them to do something with it
Can’t wait till Tampa meets the awesome neutral zone play of the Toronto Maple Leafs.Threading those passes
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
He looks like a Bond Villain of some kind.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
HURR IM MIKE MILBURY
TAMPA BAY IS HAXORS. THEY ARE PUSSY
DERRRF I R KEEF JONES
I KNO, EH. LOOK AT TAMPA NOT MOVE
(Shows clip of both teams not moving)
HURR FANS PAID BUX TO WATCH PHILLY PLAY GOOD OFFENSE
Le Chiffre
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
I'm watching the Russians vs QMJHL
They just did a zoom in on the Russian goalie and he looks about 12.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Be prepared
There will be a Gary Bettman Decree coming tomorrow. If it takes that long.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
I doubt it
this is half Tampa bay playing a trap within the rules. And philadelphia refusing to play until Bettman changes the rules
Exactly why Gary Bettman is going to change the rules tomorrow so it’s not legal anymore.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
What he’ll make illegal is anyone’s guess.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Back in jail for bad behavior.
"Had miller played the rest of the game facing that many shots, he’d have ended up with 120 shots against"
Exactly
You’re seriously going to change the rules, tomorrow no less (cause that’s just how fast the NHL acts), to nerf one defensive strategy from one team that, frankly, is nowhere near the top of the league in Defence.
This is not Lemaire NHL. It’s one team with statistically average D. Grow a pair of balls and play Philly. They have the puck, they have to score.
Pronger was confused.
“Holy shit, am I seeing triple? Which one of those Tampa guys at center ice is really there? Is my eye really that bad? Fuck, I wish they’d get close enough for me to elbow someone in the face. At least I’d feel better.”
i think they need some new kind of punishment. something cruel and unusual.
maybe they could let ron maclean on the ice and he chases the players around, and any he catches, he gets to shove celery stalks up their ass while the fans shower them all with beer.
i’ll bet 9 out of 10 nhl players would find that difficult to accept, and thus, the 1-3-1 would come to an end.
thank you. i have other suggestions if you’d like.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
what should frighten you most is i now live in the danforth, and should be skating this winter down in withrow park. i’ll be the guy skating like the wind, and waving a celery stalk around. ;-)
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
hey man, i’m 52… celery-powered… and clearly, clinically insane.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
This isn’t the NBA, a team should be aloud to play a defensive style as long as it falls into the rules.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
I think it's important for everyone to realize
This is “not” the trap again. It’s a novelty with varying degrees of success
Exactly.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
the onus is on the team with the puck, they have to try and move it forward
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
That is why I fault Philly in this. I swear though Ubiq. may be right about Bettman doing something
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
i doubt it, it’s one game.
if it becomes rampant in the NHL then maybe, at most he might phone the Tampa and Philly brass and tell em to cut it the fuck out
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Hope your right. But Tampa is in the right here for sure. it was real funny to watch though.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
tampa used the 1-3-1 to go deep in the playoffs last year, the only difference was that the teams they played didn`t just sit on their asses and not attack
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Rule 72.1 covers this juuuust vaguely enough:
“Refusing or Abstaining from Playing the Puck – The purpose of this section is to enforce continuous action and both Referees and Linesmen should interpret and apply the rule to produce this result.”
Nothing stopping two guys from playing pitch-and-catch behind their net, I suppose.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Nov 9, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think I have a solution to the goalie problems
Its Turco time guys
by jd90 on Nov 9, 2011 8:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Ah yes
Let’s swap our .878 goaltender for a .897 goaltender, then all of our troubles will be over.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
You gotta remember
If he’s statistically .878, he’s expected to let in multiple laffers per game. So it’s probably not that low.
Then again, we just watched two exceptions in a row
I dunno but
I’m just about done with Gus. Is Hasek still kickin around somewhere (not serious at all)
by jd90 on Nov 9, 2011 8:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
could we just have tacos instead?
taco time?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Well watching Gus is leading me towards developing a drinking problem so…
by jd90 on Nov 9, 2011 8:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
well let`s find a real goalie then, not a pile of garbage
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Got a better solution then? I can’t think of anything that sounds as cool as Turco time
by jd90 on Nov 9, 2011 9:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s actually from WWII, you utter pillock!
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Nov 9, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Screw that
I don’t like these goalies and demand an immediate overreaction
by jd90 on Nov 9, 2011 9:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
At this point I would take an out of shape Cujo or the worlds fattest man to play net. Basically anyone with any ability or someone so fat they don’t need any ability
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
maybe we could tie rita back-to-back with wellwood, stuff ‘em into the net, and tell ’em there’s a 24/7 buffet with their name on it if they don’t move for 60 minutes.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
come to think of it, that’s overkill.
we could probably alternate games. i think rita’s the starter though.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Our problems are solved. I know a great all you can eat Sushi place.
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
wasn’t this very idea fleshed out somewhere? i seem to remember seeing something about this on a tv show.
I think this ran on the PPP Home Shushi Shopping Network
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Wellwoods face is supposed to be on the whale, ugh
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Where on the whale?
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Proper placement of the Wellwood in the net is critical
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
whoa! i made this and totally forgot about it
PuckingHilarious.com - funny hockey apparel for hard core puck heads.
by Likely on Nov 9, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome
Conclusion?
Still, the Caps shooters had a hell of a time scoring. The ‘fat goalie’ idea could certainly work under the right conditions."
Science. Right there, in the goddamn jar. We need a fat man.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Sport Science covered this idea too, last year I think it was. They had a sumo wrestler come in and strap on the pads. To really test the theory though, as opposed to having a noted sniper come in and pick corners, they had the ’stache himself, George Parros. Despite his lack of scoring ability, he was potting goals left right and centre.
If you look up "Loyalty" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of a Leafs fan wearing a Todd Gill jeresy looking like he just got punched in the stomach
The whole thing can be seen here
If you look up "Loyalty" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of a Leafs fan wearing a Todd Gill jeresy looking like he just got punched in the stomach
A sumo wrestler weighs what? three to five hundred pounds
I am suggesting get a 1000+ pound person. They would literally fill the net.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
not even close
For the love of god do not click on this. It is NSFW and very disturbing.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
Parros sucks and only has 9 goals but here’s one against the Leafs
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Just get a guy so obese that he covers the whole net with gear on. Is there a rule about that?
Being a Leafs fan makes me bipolar.
he`d need custom gear, which would need an exception under the rules of sizing like chara`s stick
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 9, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Just say no to Marty Turco
C’mon it even rhymes
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Nov 9, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Where’ve you been all day? I made a chart-filled post all for you!
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
BUSY
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Nov 10, 2011 6:52 AM EST up reply actions
Forgive me if this is posted in the correct spot....
Once again, Will Arnett is representing the leafs in this weeks episode Up All Night
by newfiecutie on Nov 9, 2011 9:59 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Fuck the trap
Living and dying with the Blue and White, season to season, game to game, shift to shift.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Nov 9, 2011 10:09 PM EST reply actions
He won on a rush!
and a rebound in front.
“Oh. The Trap Won” Yea it totally helped that Philadelphia didn’t move.
At least Washington tried to break it in the playoffs, and not sit on the puck like fucking children.
the world must have ended
because all of a sudden Phanuf sounds really smart:
“We’re not perfect as defencemen, our forwards aren’t perfect and our goalies aren’t perfect,” said captain Dion Phaneuf. "Mistakes are made in games and (the goalies) are no different than us. But when the pucks aren’t bouncing for them we’ve got to tighten up in front of them.
“It’s like if a D-man makes a mistake, you hope a forward’s there to help you out or your partner.”
-TSN
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 9, 2011 10:59 PM EST reply actions
Alternately he could have said “Unless it’s me and 5 Nik Lidstrom clones on the blueline, ain’t no way we’re going to win games with goaltending as shitty as we’ve gotten lately.”
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
players, unlike coaches and fans, may be less likely to throw teammates under the bus, and may understand that it’s a team game, not doubles tennis.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 10, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Feschuk on Reimer's Concussions. Plural.
Oh shit. Shit shit shit shit shit.
R.I.P. The playoff hopes of Montreal Canadiens fans for 2011-12.
by not norm ullman on Nov 9, 2011 11:37 PM EST reply actions
Overly concerned mother talks candidly about her concerns for her son’s well being.
This is new worthy why? I don’t see a Dr. in front of her name so frankly I don’t care what her thoughts or feelings on the subject is. Then couple that with her obvious bias with it being her son.
Shame on Feschuk for even “writing” such a worthless article.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
really?
the fact that he’s had several concussions IS news and IS a big deal. every concussion increases the risk of subsequent concussions, and can make them more and more severe.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Nov 10, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
what? are you being serious? He’s had multiple concussions. That is a big story.
Raycroft! I like the move. Falls inline with the push for youth and is a solution for the future. Trading Rask was unfortunate, but with Pogge and Raycroft only being 26, I think the TO goaltending future is a bright one. - Some guy from 2006
by Chuck Diesel on Nov 10, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
Pick 10 random NHLers. 9 of them have had multiple concussions through their lives.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
out of all my friends who have ever played competitive contact hockey for any length of time only 2 have had no concussions, that they know of
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Nov 10, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
Unless they just don’t remember them-due to concussions.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Nov 10, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think what you're saying is
No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Nov 10, 2011 6:59 AM EST up reply actions
Is anyone watching the Nashville-Anaheim game and wondering why Leafs broadcasts haven’t incorporated super-slow-mo cameras?
elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly
because our defense already does that on their own?
Raycroft! I like the move. Falls inline with the push for youth and is a solution for the future. Trading Rask was unfortunate, but with Pogge and Raycroft only being 26, I think the TO goaltending future is a bright one. - Some guy from 2006
by Chuck Diesel on Nov 10, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Hey, they feel bad. There’s no need to pylon.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Nov 10, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
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