Ron Wilson Has Him Swim Trunks
by SkinnyFish on Dec 5, 2011 7:02 AM EST
in From The Branches
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PrintThe Flip-Flops of Maple Leafs' Coach Ron Wilson - James Mirtle at the Globe and Mail
We all know the history behind Wilson saying he told Gustavsson would be starting, but then started Reimer, so I'm not going to quote that bit of James' piece. The part I want to highlight is this:
Beyond the why, however, presenting misinformation on purpose enters all sorts of other grey areas.
Are there ethical implications involved? Or even ones of poor sportsmanship?
In the NFL, for example, teams are fined for inaccurately reporting injuries, part of a policy instituted in 1947 that, in many ways, is related to gambling on games.
One prominent recent example of its use was the $125,000 (U.S.) the New York Jets paid for hiding the fact quarterback Brett Favre had a torn biceps tendon in 2008.
While the NHL doesn’t have a specific set of guidelines when it comes to truth telling, deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Sunday that being outright dishonest is frowned upon.
"I’m not sure there is a policy, per se," Daly said. "But certainly we tell clubs that they are not entitled to ‘lie’ to the media."
Particularly with the sports betting part, James has a great point. I'd bet the over with Gustavsson in net, but not Reimer (especially with either Rask or Thomas in the other net) as would most others. I particularly don't care whether or not journalist like Damien Cox get butthurt over Wilson being dishonest with them, but I do care about possible accusations of bet fixing. For that reason, I can see the NHL instituting the policy Bill Daly says they currently lack. Your thoughts?
More links after the jump.
Leafs Links
2 Months Deep: How NHL Teams are Using Their AHL Affiliates
Despite all the injuries, Leafs are only 7th for call-ups.
Hey Mikhail Grabovski, it's OK to Have an Off Year
For the Leafs in a contract year it is.
The Bruins Have the Leafs' Number
They left a message to call back and when we did, we got put on hold.
The Maple Leafs and the Missing Link
Surprisingly, Mike from VLM isn't talking about Nathan Horton.
Early Season Maple Leafs Awards
Lady Byng to Komisarek? What?
Vintage Leafs with old school photo goodness.
What to do With Nikolai Kulemin?
Play him with Grabbo on the thirst line. Duh.
The man who went the other way for HHOF Babe Pratt.
Other Links
Jo Innes breaks down snapping your jaw in hockey. Been there, done that. It blows.
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Wilson didn’t lie. He never said Gus is starting. In fact it was fairly obvious by his comment about telling Gus, that he was essentially saying I don’t want to tell you, but Reimer is starting.And while Mirtle is great, is he suggesting that the team lied about Reimers injury. Because I recall an article or presser that said he passed baseline tests for concussions. That doesn’t mean he didn’t have symptoms of concussion or whip lash but if doctors don’t confirm it should the leafs lie and say it was definitely a concussion to please the media and give them a black and white answer to a very complex issue (diagnosing head/whip lash traumas)?
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 9:25 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Reimer had a concussion. I guarantee you the team’s neurologist (or whatever specialist they sent him to) diagnosed him with a concussion. His symptoms were not whiplash and calling it “concussion-like symptoms” is laughable.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
he writes the words on his keyboard and then they show up on the internet.
by Wan Ihite on Dec 5, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I am taking my medical expertise (which is admittedly limited thus far in neurological) and saying that the symptoms that were described by him and the team fall under concussion. The team stopped using whiplash and started using “concussion-like” symptoms, which was a silly way of not saying concussion.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Training to be. I will know more about concussions and neurological problems by the end of April.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Cool. But I really was just trying to Andy Sutton you. Always nice to have people in Science around.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Calculon – And-And you say you can guarantee me the Oscar?
Bender – I can guarantee anything you want.
by c_gee on Dec 5, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bender reminds me of Jared – especially with this line.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Something tells me I could easily beat those trained professionals.
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Not trying to be rude, but based on your knowledge you are fairly certain he had a concussion. I agree. However as you know if he passed tests originally yet later experienced symptoms similar to.those of post concussion, the doctors would treat it as a concussion, but couldn’t confirm. Clearly all semantics but important, regardless these are still separate instances.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 10:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Having had whiplash from a car accident myself, I actually believe Reimer may have had concussion-like symptoms resulting from whiplash. I was thoroughly checked out, but was found not to have a concussion, but I still received the headaches and nausea of a concussion.
So the whiplash explanation makes sense to me
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
You’re wrecking the narrative.
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Dec 5, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s not use isolated personal experiences to try and make a medical diagnosis. Further to that, let’s not use isolated personal experiences to try and set norms for other happenings.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
one time I stepped on a thumb tack, maybe that’s what happened to Reimer
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
One time this thing totally happened one way to me which means that if others have something similar happen to them, it should go the same way.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
you stepped on a thumb tack too?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
but me likes some story time…
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 11:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I always feel better after a big poop.
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Dec 5, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmm… if only I could figure out what the “*” was placeholding for I could decipher this sentence. I think it might be a vowel…
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
You spelt “shyte” wrong then.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Sky, why, try…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I’ve never understand why people buy vowels in wheel of fortune that they already know exist. It’s like throwing away money needlessly.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The idea is, you know that a vowel is there and hope that more than just hte one you know is there. While getting those extra vowels you don’t risk a bankrupt or lose a turn spin.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Yeah, it’s all about accidentally discovering more letters without losing your turn if you guess something that doesn’t happen to be in it at all.
Okay that definitely makes sense, but I should have been more specific: I’ve seen it happen, although not too often, when the person already seems to know the word and they buy an obvious vowel right before they solve the puzzle. I’m just like, geez, I could had a really nice dinner or half a leaf ticket with that extra $250.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah maybe. Or maybe they had a hint of doubt that they might have the wrong word and it was worth the little cost of $250 to be extra sure about bringing home the whole much bigger pot.
Landmarks
TOW_R OF LONDON
“Garsh, this is a toughie, I’m gonna buy an “E”, Pat!"
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
People who annoy you
N_GGERS
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I didn’t wanna go down that road.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Getting out my ten foot pole here…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Dec 5, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
I… I know it but I don’t think I should say it…
by 9 Dollar Beer on Dec 5, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
for anyone who hasn't seen
this is a reference to a particularly off-colour South Park episode (the guy reluctantly guesses “i” and the audience is horrified because the reveal is “a”)
so. that was not an example of pretty appalling racism…
*crickets
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
He doesn’t just guess “I”, he actually says the word! (It was the bonus round.) Then he becomes the episode’s whipping boy (rightfully so!).
1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1
Oh yeah I remember that episode now. heh
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I’d like to know the odds of losing a turn or going bankrupt – if you know the puzzle, shouldnt you keep spinning to try and win extra prizes? I guess its all risk tolerance
The real issue is sample size: in a 15 minute game you need to minimize risk fairly aggressively.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
The world needs more Perry Cox and less Damien Cox.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Case in point...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuwoJFVepGk
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
The mental bar to get over to be in Wheel of Fortune is not high.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
I’d argue that Wheel of Fortune is also the game with the best balance of decent winnings and mindless fun. Jeopardy is easily the hardest game with the least amount of payoffs overall. Think of how much work you have to put in to win $25,000 on Jeopardy vs. the equivalent amount on Wheel of Fortune? I’d probably feel better about myself winning at Jeopardy but I’d have more fun playing Wheel of Fortune.
Wow I put way too much thought into that.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I guess the rebuttal would be that the ceiling for jeopardy is higher than WoF.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Oh definitely. I think if I wanted to prove to myself how smart I was I’d go for Jeopardy, but if I just wanted to have a fun time and spin a giant wheel I’d go for WoF or Price is Right or something.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
jeopardy isn’t that challenging
/Kenjennings’d
/smugface
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Jeopardy is easy enough when youre watching from home, but you don’t know how challenging is until you’re actually on the show. According to Ken Jennings, pretty much everyone onstage knows the answer to every question. The real challenge (besides overcoming stagefright) is mastering the buzzer timing, i.e., being the first one to buzz in without getting locked out for jumping the gun.
Jennings did so well because, after barely squeaking out a win in his first game, he was able to establish a decisive home field advantage; that is, he’d already mastered the buzzer timing, but each of his challengers in each of his games were learning it for the first time.
Did he ever have to play against the Jeopardy computer? Because that would pretty much eliminate those variables
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, no. It just put the buzzing advantage in Watson’s court because who can out time a computer?
Tournament of Champions is a better even field and I think in the big one, Jennings came second.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Correct, and Rutter came first.
You’ve hit on the problem with the man-versus-machine challenge: It wasn’t a test of knowledge, but of reflexes, and the computer is always going to win that, since it moves at the speed of electricity itself. What they would have needed to do to make it fair is to build some sort of randomized delay into Watson’s reactions. Or, they could have used College Bowl Rules and allowed the competitors to buzz in early.
Even ignoring reflexes, what does Watson prove? It’s like playing against somebody who was allowed to look up Wikipedia for every answer, except at the speed of light.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
It proves that Watson is an impressive achievement in natural language recognition and interpretation, and that’s about it.
Exactly. The beauty of Watson was developing a program that could take a phrase in the English language and identify the structure in it so it could go and retrieve pertinent knowledge. In terms of language developers, it was pretty big and unlike with Deep Blue (the chess computer) IBM is continuing to work on Watson and find applications.
The Jeopardy was just a publicity stunt. However, did offer up a few good laughs. “What is leg?”
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Not to mention:
A. This U.S. city’s largest airport is named for a famous World War II hero, its second largest for a famous World War II battle.
Q. What is Toronto???
even if it did Pearson wasn’t a WW2 hero and Billy Bishop wasn’t a battle. Is the answer to this question Chicago? I don’t know who O’Hare was but Midway was a ww2 battle
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
It was Chicago, which I only know because of watching that episode.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
The actual question didn’t ask “What US City”, “US Cities” was simply the category, and according to an article I read after the competition Watson was programmed so that the category was only slightly suggestive of the answer, not a big factor.
It makes sense if you think about certain categories with double meanings; last week they had one called “Middle Ages” and it was all questions where about something someone did while they were “Middle Aged”.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Siri would have gotten that one right, anyway.
by Peter Lynn on Dec 5, 2011 5:47 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
So what you’re saying is, playing COD for all those years will help me win Jeopardy?
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
It won’t hurt to have great hand/eye coordination, though you’d be up against a human’s timing rather than a computer’s timing. What happens on Jeopardy is that Trebek reads the question, then a staffer “unlocks” the buzzers for the contestants. The guy who had this duty when Jennings started his run had very consistent timing/reflexes, and Jennings was able to get own timing/reflexes very much in sync with that staffer’s. Then, the producers figured this out and started swapping in other staffers for this duty, which eliminated this advantage for Jennings and evened the playing field.
Well I was speaking of multiplayer… not the single player
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Jeopardy is easily the hardest game with the least amount of payoffs overall.
In North America, perhaps. British game shows such as Mastermind tend to be more difficult.
Yeah I watched that show while studying in Scotland… that show is really hard
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Just saying I buy the Leafs explanation
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
They would change their diagnosis to concussion, with the original one being incorrect.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I don’t get what the big deal is about whether or not it was an actual “concussion” or just long-lasting “concussion-like smyptoms”… either way, he was treated for whatever he had and he came back when he was ready… Who cares what label they slap on the injury?
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Why does anyone care though? As long as you and your doctor know what’s wrong and you get treated properly for your injury.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
You are correct, it doesn’t matter what others know as long as the patient and health care team know. In general it is up to the patient to choose what to divulge. Obviously inthe sports world it is a little different.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Should have said professional sports world. Or in other words in the public world people seem to accept that they have less of a private life.
I dunno, from my end (the medical end), it is quite simple. We don’t disclose anything, unless given specific or implied (a specialist will send reports back to a family doctor in most cases unless requested not to) permission.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Because how else will their mothers know? (am I doing this this right?)
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 11:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I get that it’s a “little different”, but still don’t see any reason why anyone in the media or the public needs to know so badly if it’s a concussion or not, the team never lied about the severity of the injury; obviously at first they thought it was nothing, but once they realized it was more serious they were honest in not knowing a timetable for a return or anything.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
I more or less agree. I was just responding to the initial comment in this thread where someone said the team was techinically right because it wasn’t originally tested as a concussion.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
My understanding is that they would treat him as if he had a concussion but since it cannot be confirmed due to tests stating the opposite, it would just be treated as concussion like symptoms hence the whole confusion.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 12:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You can make retroactive diagnoses (particularly if imaging showed damage (which is rare)). I am not 110% sure on this, but I am pretty confident that they would still change the working diagnosis to concussion. The original tests to not have 100% sensitivity.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Don’t you mean “an undisclosed injury located somewhere upon my persons”
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Hey Cox here is RW's next statement for you
The undisclosed personnel will miss an undisclosed amount of minutes/periods/games/seasons for undisclosed reasons at an undisclosed place.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I think the NHL has specific protocols for concussions which can be circumvented by the semantic use of the term whiplash.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Not really, they have protocols for taking a player off and examining him when he experiences a head trauma that results in the initial warning signs of a concussion, but once the player is deemed “injured” by the team I don’t think the league cares if they call it a “concussion” in public, as long as the player is getting the proper treatment.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
So “guarantee” is rhetorical and not substantial.
That’s like Ron Wilson “guaranteeing” Gustavsson starts tonight (I give it 50-50).
Alright, I will change the wording as it was too strong. I will make an education guess…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Oh, so now you’re an “educated guesser”? I need to see your credentials before I start considering your guesses to be anything more than worthless.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
My license
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
So now the secret is out, “BCapp” is just another handle used by Chemmy!
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
maybe even
an educated one? #notseriousdontbemad
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 11:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
To be overly pedantic, Wilson said he told Gus he was starting, not that he was starting Gus. So if we want to say he lied, he really lied to Gus. Technically then, he was telling the truth to the media in that he did tell Gus he was starting, but he was lying to Gus about actually starting. You know, the whole “cross your fingers behind your back” defence
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 9:28 AM EST reply actions
Unacceptable. He also told the media that, but knew he was starting Reimer. It’s flat out lying. I was starting to like Wilson this season too.
Can’t wait to have the NHL adapt some sort of NFL like policy where you have to be transparent with starting lineups and injuries.
I agree that there should be a penalty for lying, though I understand his justification. Its strategy. Boston will continue to review tape on Gustavsson and then he throws in Reimer. Of course it has implications, but that’s the outcome.
If there’s such a policy put in, he could still lie, but then just pay the fine.
Either way, Boston should be prepared to play whomever in goal regardless of who is announced as starter. In that case, RW could pull Gus after first stoppage and put Reimer in and all the sudden he’s not a liar.
This had something Boston or a tactic against them. This was strictly about the media IMO. This was to protect Reimer from the media. Good for Wilson and Burke.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Exactly
He didn’t want Reimer to have to go through a gong show leading up to his first game. Worked well too.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Reimer even talks about this in an interview, how Wilson shielded him from the media, and how it was helpful. If I’m Wilson, and I face a choice between “lying” to the media or exposing my young starting goaltender to a media circus on his return, I know what way I’m going.
Come get your duds in order...
Review the tape? Do we believe hockey teams are this obsessive? The ways to beat one goaltender are pretty much the same as others. Yes, certain players have tendencies but I can’t say Boston would have changed their game plan whether it was Reimer, Gustavsson or Scrivens in net. I haven’t heard one blip out of the Bruins that they cared or paid attention either way.
This is a disgruntled media who are coming up flat empty when they want little wounds in the team they report on to prod at. What the Leafs did was rob certain people out of a full day of “Is Reimer truly ready?” articles and preparation on the “Should they have played him against the Bruins?/Feeling the rust” day later articles. I mean, they had to think on the fly and adjust!! Don’t you know how hard it is to do that??
No sympathy for the media and don’t care what Wilson and Co do with their press releases. Your job is not meant to be easy; figure it out and quit whining that you aren’t been spoon fed properly.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
But when a reporter does think outside the box I hear people complaining that it contravenes “team policy.” Look the actual value coming out of that interview with Reimer’s mother was dubious, but the idea to do so was creative thinking. It was a reporter who decided to “quit whining that you aren’t being spoonfed properly” by the team.
There is so much ad hominem antagonism directed towards the media on this blog sometimes.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I have no problems if they want to call up family and wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the time the family says “get lost”. The Leafs can’t stop that and it is the choice of the reporter to decide if that is an appropriate method of getting information and the family member in whether or not they want to talk to the media. It happens in all other forms of news, whether crime, human interest or other.
In the end, we got a worried mother who didn’t quite understand what is going on with her sons injury. That really isn’t news because head injuries are often really hard to understand and unless Reimer’s mother was a doctor/nurse/health professional, you have to take those comments in context. I think what rankled people is that some took the “Reimer’s mother doesn’t fully understand concussions” to mean “LOOK! The Leafs organization don’t even inform the parents of the players – what a dirty, dangerous group they are” which again is the overreaction and stupidity of the media taking an things way to far.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
I pretty much agree with what you’re saying, except that I don’t really remember seeing the “The Leafs don’t inform the parents of the players” angle being a contentious issue around here. It was more just general anger of the “how dare they call Reimer’s mother” and “It’s not fair to call her it’s about her son, she can’t help talking even if she knew she shouldn’t” with a little bit of “well the team said it wasn’t a concussion so the reporters should just drop it.”
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I heard Cox going on about he felt her worries were indicative of a mother who wants to know what is going on with her son. (Yeah, it was McCowan on Sportsnet… had just flipped on the tv without paying attention. Always pay attention, kids.) He’s had it out for the lack of information for a while.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
“There is so much ad hominem antagonism directed towards the media on this blog sometimes.”
As you wrote so eloquently in the other thread… it’s because they’ve been dicks. It’s unfair that good writers get lumped in with the bad, but the MSM wrt Leafs coverage in this city long ago poisoned the discourse. They have only themselves to blame if their readership has become inherently distrustful of their motives and/or general competence.
They have only themselves to blame if their readership has become inherently distrustful of their motives and/or general competence.
And their shitty predecessors and peers (I know you mentioned this at the beginning with the unfair part, but I thought it was worth repeating.)
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Sure, but I think we need to delineate a difference between columnists and reporters. Of course, it doesn’t help that the oldguard Leafs beat reporters have let their own opinions seep into their writing as well, but I’d argue that the newer generation (Siegel, Mirtle) do good work. It’s the older generation, of the McGran or Berger ilk that are more guilty of being jaded. And they’re on their way out.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
The ways to beat one goaltender are pretty much the same as others.
Not always. E.g. game plan for Toskala:
1) Shoot puck at net.
2) ???
3) GOAL!
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
I’m having a hard time getting worked up about this, likely because I don’t have any money at stake. If I had Reimer in my pool and didn’t start him…well it would’ve worked out anyways since he lost but obviously you don’t know that going in.
It does set some worrying precedents though. The NHL is not going to do anything for now, but I bet if we start to see this type of thing happen more often they will do something about it. If teams start out-and-out lying to media on a regular basis, the whole NHL-media relationship goes down the tubes. And as much as teams sometimes wish no reporters ever showed up for anything at all I think even the players realize that getting coverage is better for the league than getting no coverage.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
A 4 word disclaimer borrowed from combat sports and this becomes a complete non-issue
Card Subject To Change
I’m sorry but it’s a professional sport league and the team reserves the right to make any (legal) modifications to its roster up until the point it hands in its lineup card for the game.
The idea that teams have to be beholden to the gambling community for any and all roster decisions is ludicrous because a) virtually nobody bets on hockey anyways; b) unlike other professional leagues the NHL hasn’t sold out to the gambling community; and c) it’s called gambling! The mere act of placing a bet on a team implies the bettor is taking a risk on the potential outcome of the game.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Dec 5, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Moreover, anyone who gambles their own hard-earned money on the goaltending of the Toronto Maple Leafs is a complete and utter moron.
by lucc on Dec 5, 2011 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Is this really what its about? Gambling?
Is that where the outrage is coming from? Because if so, this whole situation is even more ridiculous than I first thought.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
by BCapp on Dec 5, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No the outrage comes from Damien Cox reacting like an insecure girlfriend about being lied to.
But James’ article above touches on a bit of a compare-and-contrast between the NHL and NFL’s policies on this sort of thing. And the NFL’s policy is virtually 100% influenced by the implications on Vegas.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Of course, as you pointed out, the gambling network surrounding the NFL is way, way, way bigger than that of the NHL. Big enough for the league to take notice.
For what it’s worth, I don’t care about the gambling aspect of it at all.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, This whole controversy is ridiculous. When are line-ups for the Jays or any baseball team announced? Like an hour before the game (that’s why the pitchers are listed as ‘probable’ starters).
Also, the football analogy isn’t a great one, because while the NFL has a policy, numerous teams will list players with injuries who aren’t actually (or at least not seriously) injured
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Owen Nolan summed it all up best
BOO HOO
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
by elseldo on Dec 5, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m having a hard time getting worked up about this, likely because I don’t have any money at stake. If I had Reimer in my pool and didn’t start him…well it would’ve worked out anyways since he lost but obviously you don’t know that going in.
They announced it was him at about 1 pm. Still plenty of time.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
If I had Reimer in my pool and didn’t start him…
Also, we knew about it like 7 hours in advance, you’d have a chance to change your starter.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Not if you had Reimer on IR. Takes a full day for IR changes to take effect.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
you get a rec
Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
by Chris Stoikoff on Dec 5, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
yep. who cares?
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Dec 5, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It isn’t flat out lying. Did you read the quote? Is he deliberately leaving it open to discussion? Yup. No one called him on it though, even though it was fairly obvious based on his past moves and the phrasing that he was starting Reimer. People need to stop treating this and Reimers injury as the same thing.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 9:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s only obvious in hindsight, lots of folks (you can look at the thread from that game day and the days leading up to it) thought Gus would start (although some had doubts).
I just don’t like deception, or anything of the like from public figures. You can call it strategy… I’d rather have no disclosure than this. Especially when the team is priding itself on character. It’s not in line with their public face, it does a disservice.
I don’t care particularly about the disclosure about injuries.
Many of us had doubts.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Go check out the threads. Yesterday 3 people dropped their quotes where they said exactly that.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Here’s where I said exactly that:
He’s "backing up" the same way Scrivens was the nominal backup right up until he made his first start. If Reimer’s fit to play, he’s playing. Wilson’s going to make the game-time switcheroo to keep the media out of Reimer’s face.
by Peter Lynn on Dec 2, 2011 10:42 AM PST
Boom. Jon K here is the proof
Peter even figures out the reason he did it.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
people posted it in yesterdays thread, there were some.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 10:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought (and hoped) it would be Reimer but didn’t think it was a big deal. I guess I’m used to Ron W.’s shenanigans by now and would have thought Damien was too…
Especially after Reimer himself said “I’m ready” and pretty much let the cat out of the bag without saying “Ron told me I’m starting”
You and your thinking and using logic and history to solve lifes hardest questions. Don’t you know Damien is impartial so he doesn’t have to use things like logic or past trends.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 10:30 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Damien’s not impartial. He’s neutral.
I now fully understand why Zapp Brannigan wanted to blow them up.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I still don’t see why a coach managing information is getting such coverage. The MSM has great list of story ideas they have recycled for years to sell papers. They just need to queue the idea check list on their computer:
- the leaf’s PP sucks
- kessel in a multiweek scoring slump
- leafs don’t win in november
- fire wilson
- everyone’s favourite – 1967
Damien’s not neutral. He’s neutered.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
.
He also doesn’t really say whether he’s starting tomorrow or not, kind of tries to elude it.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
by Shield on Dec 2, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
They’re all dodging the question. Wilson wouldn’t commit, Jonas has "been told" he’s starting, etc. I wouldn’t be shocked to see either of them get the start tomorrow.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Dec 2, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Are you looking for someone to have made a bold prediction of “Wilson is a liar and the Leafs are starting Reimer tomorrow!!” because I don’t think anyone really had the motivation to make a claim like that. And that a pair of guys on the internet had “doubts,” well, I just don’t think Wilson put a lot of effort into this “lie.”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
I can honestly say that I saw the switch coming a looooooooong way off. I don’t bet but if I did, I would have put all I own on Reimer starting that game.
Interestingly Wilson’s done it once this year already, when he started Scrivens after saying he was going to start Gustavsson.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
It protected Reimer from getting mauled for four days by the media. Worth it.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
True about hindsight, I figured he was probably starting Reimer but I didn’t post. I didn’t say strategic but I understand where you are coming from. I don’t fault Ron for saying that, I fault the reporters for just reporting instead of asking a follow up to clarify. Cox was being ridiculous though and it is precisely those actions that cause the Leafs to behave this way with the media. The bottom line is it wasn’t a lie, but it was purposefully open ended and no one did the journalistic thing by getting clarification.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 10:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If anyone dared to ask for clarification, Ronnie would have stormed out of the presser in righteous indignation.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
well, it was cutting into his photoshop time
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
by elseldo on Dec 5, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
maybe, and that would.have been a real thing to take issue with. Also that follow up is part of their job.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 11:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Again, it’s easy to say in hindsight.
To say it’s purposefully obscure, ok, even in that case, Reimer isn’t a rookie. He does really well with the media (in fact, spoke to several of them over the days before his surprise start), so how does this shelter him?
You and I arguing semantics, something I normally love to do, but I don’t think the statement was open ended at all. It was leading. Sure, journalists could have questioned further, but Wilson had already stated that Reimer was going to backup Saturday and maybe start against the Rangers.
From Dec 2 – apparently after Wilson made the decision on Nov 30 (3 days prior to the Boston game) that Reimer was starting:
“We’ve talked about it, but more than likely it’s going to be Gustavsson,” said coach Ron Wilson. “Sometimes with goaltenders (coming off injuries), you want him to get back into the game-day routine and backing up is not a bad idea.”
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/12/02/brophy_on_leafs/
So, if anyone reads that, they’re going to think that Gus starts, and Reimer will back up. Something he said for days prior. If he knew days prior, he should’ve said, it’s a game time decision.
So, if anyone reads that, they’re going to think that Gus starts, and Reimer will back up
Not really, as pointed out earlier, I noted a few days before that it seemed like Wilson was avoiding the truth. If he had said “Gustavsson is starting”, that’s one thing, but the fact that he used dodgy language to avoid it gives an indication that Reimer might be starting.
Also, who cares, this is the stupidest thing either.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Public figures – I don’t think that means what you think it means.
The Toronto Maple Leafs, the NHL really, are not publicly accountable. They are privately owned, privately operated businesses. They have no obligation other than what they’ve internally decided to disclose to provide that information ahead of time.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Dec 5, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I believe a public figure is anyone who is relatively famous (ie in the public eye) and/or someone involved in public affairs. So under the first part of the definition RW would apply.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
If he doesn’t like deception from public figures I can’t imagine how he feels about every single politician in the history of time.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I have sympathy for them. We deride them for being dishonest, right up until one of them starts telling the truth, and then we vote that bugger out of office in a landslide. Then resume complaining about how dishonest they all are.
by Wan Ihite on Dec 5, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Politics is such a ridiculous world that it destroys even the best intentioned people.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Who cares?
Why is it unnaceptable? Why must he be honest with his reported lineups? I like the gamesmanship.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
It has nothing to do with “gamesmanship” and if you can’t see that, you’re either being purposefully obtuse, or something else. I don’t care which.
Well now you're just being rude.
I don’t think I am being obtuse here, or whatever else you think I am. I think he was trying to protect his back-from-concussion goalie from being bombarded by the media for the 3 days leading up to his first game back. Seemed to work to me too.
If you don’t think that was the reason, what exactly do you think the reason Wilson did this? Just to fuck with people?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
by BCapp on Dec 5, 2011 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
well clearly if you don’t agree with someone you’re being obtuse, duh…
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 10:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
it is the only logical explanation.
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 10:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
atleast he's relaxed
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
Reimer was talking to the media, a lot. How is that sheltered again? Shall I go through three days of media links on TSN, Sportsnet, Star, Sun, Globe, National Post and see how much Reimer was quoted?
C’mon.
No he was clearly doing something. I don’t know what, but if he was sheltering Reimer he didn’t do a very good job.
Sure he did. Reimer had the odd interview here and there, but if people knew he was starting he would have been drilled minute in-minute out.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
But which is the right angle?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Purposefully obtuse? Surely you can tell it’s just a reflex.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
by Learn2Leaf on Dec 5, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This kind of begs the question: what would happen if before every game RW or BB would just simply outright refuse to report any information on the starting lineup or elements about that evenings game? Does the team have any such obligation? Would they then be blasted, not for being liars, but for not being transparent?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
When we’re dealing with mittenstringers and crybabies, Leafs brass will be blasted for being anything other than an open book, or for trying to be more creative than “gonna play hard every shift, take it one game at a time, give 110%.”
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Dec 5, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Julien didn’t announce his starting goalie until warmups, and even then he didn’t say Rask was the starter. People just deduced it by who was in goal first.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Dec 5, 2011 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As I noted above, baseball line-ups aren’t announced until about an hour before the game. We’re talking about a statement made by a coach three DAYS before the game
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Actually the quote in question was from Friday’s press conference. Then at Saturday’s post-game press conference, he said he made the decision to start Reimer three days ago.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
but which one was the lie?
DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNN
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
That in other sports (I’m pretty sure soccer as well now that I come to think of it) starting rosters aren’t announced until shortly before the game
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
The call-up article is interesting. I knew that we were among the top, though not all the way there. As bad as our injuries have been, Buffalo’s had it worse. It just makes me so angry and Boston’s 12-0-1 or whatever. They had easy teams (including us) and no injuries whatsoever.
Fuck boston, uneven divisions, and Jordan Tootoo.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Yeah that was nuts. My sabres-fan roommate was going nuts when that happened. Props to the team for sticking up for him. Tootoo deserves a huge suspension
Why does he deserve a suspension?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Because Lucic wasn’t suspended. Also, he’s Jordan Tootoo.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Because a ran a goalie, and its not open season on goalies. If you’re going to say it was incidental contact then I don’t want to hear it
So he should have circled the net?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
The rules still say it isn’t. In practice it has been, but if the rules say it isn’t then they should be followed, which is why he should get a suspension, especially in light of the previous failure.
You can’t punish a second player because the league screwed up discipling a first player.
You can only punish the second player based on that players’ action and their history.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
What silly logic are you spewing?
You should know its always the second guy that gets the penalty/suspension.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Lucic should have had 5 games. Tootoo deserves 5. Therefore, the NHL will suspend Tootoo for 10 games.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Incorrect. I'll FTFY
Youcan’tshouldn’t punish a second player because the league screwed up discipling a first player.
Youcanshould only punish the second player based on that players’ action and their history.
This is the NHL we’re talking about. Don’t try to use proper logic.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
As long as you were in there fixing stuff, couldn’t you have fixed discipling?
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
are you sure it’s not? the season so far says otherwise
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
cue the star player vs. third liner suspension arguments…
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 9:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Detroit has called up 2 players 4 times from the AHL in the first 22 games. Imagine the media here going nuts if the Leafs did that with a player.
Anaheim for example, sits in 3rd with 11 call-ups so far this season while struggling from the get go, including calling up Jean-Francois Jacques FOUR times (tied with Detroit’s Brendan Smith and Fabian Brunnstrom
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Dec 5, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
They also called up Smith 4 times to work off his suspension slowly (i.e they’d call him up if the Griffins didn’t have a game for a few days and the Wings did)
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting. Surprised there isn’t a clause in the CBA stating a player suspended in the AHL is ineligible to play in the NHL
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Dec 5, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
The suspension was an NHL one. If I understand Chi-town leafs correctly what they did was call up Smith to be on the Red Wings “roster” whenever the Red Wings played a game and the AHL team did not. That way he finished his suspension.
It was from a hit in the preseason on CHicago’s Smith IIRC.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Got it now. Same thing I thought but with the leagues reversed. Still surprised they allow that. I would think if you’re suspended in one you shouldn’t be able to play in the other since they are so closely tied together.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Dec 5, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I was at that game, it was an absolutely brutal hit… and it was in Chicago, so my wife and I ended up apologizing profusely to the very angry Hawks fans around us
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
and yes, that was what I was trying to say
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
And remember, folks, Anaheim’s AHL affiliate is in Syracuse, NY.
Imagine that commute FOUR times over.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
JFJ four times? That right there is evidence of how Goddamned bad the Ducks are.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Robertson's Rants - Exceedingly occasional, lengthy ramblings on hockey topics, hosted at Puck Podcast. And no, my name's not Doug.
NYTimes Punchout
If you haven’t watched the videos about Derek Boogaard over at NYTimes.com, check them out. Very well done in my view.
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Dec 5, 2011 9:54 AM EST reply actions
I am honestly having a hard time feeling sorry for the whining and moaning by one Damien Cox over this, after his irresponsible reporting of Pat Burns’ death.
Apparently when the coach doesn’t give them enough info they “have to find other sources,” but when it is the death of someone, a comment by Cliff Fletcher is all you need.
No apology either – was just “an honest mistake.”
Glad I don’t follow his pompous ass.
I'm just going to drop these here
Zach Parise
25GP 7G 9A 16pts -10
Paul Stastny
27GP 8G 7A 15pts -5
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
They both just need a “change of scenery”
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 5, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
You don’t put Kessel and Parise on the same line. They’ll end up hurting each other.
Also Parise is a LW and Kessel a RW.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
sorry, you’re right:
Ryan – Statsny – Kessel
Parise – Connolly – Lupul
Armstrong – Bozak – MacArthur
Crabb – Steckel – Brown
Phaneuf – Weber
Franson – Suter
Schenn – Gardiner
Reimer
unfortunately we lost Kulemin, Grabbo, Komisarek & Lombardi to trade. Sad :(
That’s more like it!
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 5, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
How could we forget our backup? For shame
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 5, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Along with realignment the NHL will also announce the abolition of the salary cap, right?
by 9 Dollar Beer on Dec 5, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I see no reason not to
"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski
by MapleLeafMole on Dec 5, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
My first comment
So i’m new here.. but i’ve read tons of these posts. Correct me if i’m wrong but i think i have the jist of things: Everyone tears apart terrible grammar and spelling, kessel rides a unicorn and shoots out rainbows, we love crabb people, and ron wilson is a twitter genius. Am i in?
by Dexter'd on Dec 5, 2011 10:35 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Welcome, thanks for commenting
You’re pretty much caught up, except that you need to capitalize the letter l when it stands alone, or else you’ll be publicly flogged.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Never engage Steve Burtch. Just politely nod and move on.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
by TheBurnward on Dec 5, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d welcome you in… but i’m too new myself. so far that sounds about right. welcome
Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
I actually signed up previously with the name BleedinBlue&White, but refused to be bullied for being too cliche hah.
no one gets bullied for their user name.
some people just confused when there’s two of you
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
she started college, isn’t around as much as in the summer
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
Needs moar grammar.
/ gist sayin’
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Kessel needs to be capitalized. ;-)
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Dec 5, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
and never threaten Chemmy with legal action
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
by elseldo on Dec 5, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Replace the word ‘kinda’ with ‘repeatedly’ and ‘dog’ with ‘son’.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
My god, this chaim stuff is hilarious. I went all the way to this photoalbum on his hi5 profile, worth it.
it was a very very good day.
- from last summer would be the FTB Ananas meltdown.
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
Btw I’ve been holding this for a while but I actually know this guy. I missed the whole PPP fiasco but I went back a week ago to check it out.
Its hilarious
Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
YOU KNOW CHAIM?
does he know you’re a member here?
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
When I read the whole thing I was like, no way this can’t be him. And then I remembered he won that prize. Finally someone posted a pic/gif of him and I just couldn’t stop laughing. That was an epic moment in my PPP membership.
Knowing him (even the bit that I do) this whole thing makes perfect sense.
Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Above all, dont take things personally.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
When are you in TO again? No real reason, just curious
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Dec 17 – Jan 1; though only in the city until the 26th. Want to rent a barn?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
/taps nose
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
You can’t organize it yourself!!!! Where’s Sather to be your middle man!
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT ABOUT ME?!?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
fuck you leafer.
/saidwithlove
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Dec 5, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Also, I believe it is spelled ‘gist’
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
two different issues
The NFL publicizes injuries so that inside information doesn’t leak out to gamblers. Look at the millions wagered on the NFL each week. The NFL works with the FBI to make keep things above board plus the casinos report any odd betting patterns.
Wilson being obtuse about his starting goaltender is not the same thing. Seems he could just say that it will be a game day decision every day and leave it at that.
Plus the NFL has various categories…probabable, questionable and doubtful. NFL teams can list guys as doubtful and then dress them on Sunday. Didn’t the Patriots list their entire roster on the injury report a couple years ago or something like that?
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Dec 5, 2011 10:38 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes, Belicheck did that, but you’re missing the point. Mirtle brings up a good point that this “issue” goes beyond Cox getting butthurt, and gamesmanship because things like sports betting do exists. I can’t watch a game on Canadian broadcasting without seeing a “trust your sports gut” commercial. Do I feel the NHL should cater to directly to the gambling community? No. But I do feel they should take not of the possible implications that can be made against a team or individuals with regards to this kind of stuff.
Wilson said he decided Reimer would start “3 days ago” after the game. This was stupid to say. He should have just said it was a gametime decision and then no problem. I’m sure Burke and MLSE have made that apparent to him by now, even though they have his back publicly.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
It’s probably also silly as far as long term thinking goes. The frenzy of breathless analysis that srurounds the teams (shoddy as it often is) is a large part of what drives a steady drum beat of attention towards them, which helps drive ticket sales and TV viewership and merchandising and prolonged engagement. If you make the media coverage into TOO transparent a farce of misinformation about really basic facts, then at some point you risk hurting your golden goose.
How? Is the MSM going to stop employing beat writers? I doubt it. Are people going to stop going to games if the Leafs aren’t covered in the Star? I doubt it. I know we tend not to give the average fan a lot of credit on PPP, but I would be shocked if people stopped going to Leafs games because Cox stopped writing about them (not to mention how shocked I would be if Cox stopped writing about them).
Come get your duds in order...
This is certainly true for teams like the Leafs. But for teams where the coverage can vacillate depending on the shifting fortunes of the team from year to year, not getting as much coverage can be devastating for local awareness.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Do they force people to bet with bodog or pro line? Having wagered more than once I can say this isn’t the case. I don’t trust my gut. I trust math and stats and never bet on the leafs for that very reason.
if the league wants to establish protocols I am all for it but right now none exist.
Wilson should have just given some bullshit excuse and this would somehow be okay. He’s guilty of being overly glib much like last year with the shitstorm over having money on the board when they played the sharks.
Its like casablanca. I’m shocked…shocked that there’s gambling going on.
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Dec 5, 2011 11:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
ha!
I never saw this tweet from Sunday
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
Bob McKenzie tweets:
There is a reasonable chance, if all goes well, that NHL realignment will be concluded by day’s end.
Does this affect us at all?
The new guy.
by ButWhatDoesMineSay on Dec 5, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions
Only if they do something stupid like divisional playoffs in unbalanced divisions.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Which is what the latest proposal is…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Dec 5, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Think they are finally doing something reasonable like “home at homes” with every team not in your division so increased travel. Potentially larger “divisions” (if HNIC had correct gist of it) which more games against whoever is in those divisions.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Six (or less) games against teams in your division.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Yes, but if they add new teams to the divisions (say go with four) it means more games against them. Toronto could see a lot more of Detroit, Tampa and Florida based on what Friedman was going on about. In my mind though, the uneven numbers has to cause some scheduling problems that I don’t know how they would decide where the extra 5-6 games end up when the division has 7 teams.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Worst part.
End of the “SouthEast team on a Tuesday = doom” meme ’round these parts.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Dec 5, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I like this idea.*
*Offer shall not remain valid if it results in repeated first round matchups against Boston.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
4 Divisions in 2 Conferences.
8 and 7 teams in a Division.
6 games in division, then home-and-homes, then whatever to fill out 82 games.
First two rounds of Playoffs are divisional.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Wasn’t one of the proposals just four conferences? And once you get out of your division, they get seeded 1-4?
I’m for any realignment proposal that fosters animosity within the division. Lumping the Florida teams with the Eastern Canada teams make tons of sense in that it will be a big catalyst for attendance increases in those markets.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Yeah, there is/was that proposal but I don’t see it happening. I think they keep it East/West without calling it East/West.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Yeah I didn’t think of the snow birds attendance angle until someone (BP?) mentioned it yesterday. Makes a lot of sense through that perspective.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
until this summer…#anotheronebitesthedust
"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"
by DoubleDion on Dec 5, 2011 11:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Obligatory “uneven divisions with divisional playoffs are a stupid idea” post from me.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Obligatory “divisonal playoffs are the best thing about hockey since the invention of the zamboni” post from me.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Obligatory “not too sure what we’re talking about but PLAYOFFS!!!!1” POST FROM ME
August 18th is National Chaim Weisswasser day. Celebrate it by buying a new phone.
Obligatory comment about “obligatory comments not truly being obligatory”.
So, apparently I can now be followed.. but no stalking. @alsonamedphil
Mary J. Blige?
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Any owner who lets his team be in an 8 team division is just throwing money away. Teams in the 7 team division would have a 12.5% edge to make the playoffs.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Unsurprisingly, the east gets both seven team divisions.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Because they know that’s the only way any of the eastern teams will agree to it.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Or because they’re under the belief Phoenix will move to an eastern city (like, oh I don’t know, Quebec City), so they’re preparing for that.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
With Buffalo inexplicably in the West playing with Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, LA, Anaheim, San Jose, and Phoenix.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Not if you use the AHL model, which means:
The top 4 teams from each division go to the playoffs, UNLESS the 5th place team in the 8-team division has more points than the 4th place team in the 7-team division, then its 5 & 3.
How do playoffs work?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
AHL playoffs system was effectively the exact system that would be used in the new NHL realignment, but yeah, if the 5th place team in the 8 team division was better than the 4th place team in the 7 team division the 5th place team got the 4 seed in the 7 team division.
Playoffs were divisional; 1 v 4, 2 v 3
It’s extra hilarious because the AHL just switched its playoffs to mimic the NHL’s current system, and now the NHL could be switching to something akin to the AHL’s old system.
Oh, hockey
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
The 5th place team crosses over into the 7-team division. For example:
Conference A:
Team 1 – 106pts
Team 2 – 102pts
Team 3 – 100pts
Team 4 – 90pts
Team 5 – 80pts
Team 6 – 78pts
Team 7 – 70pts
Conference B:
Team 1 – 100pts
Team 2 – 99pts
Team 3 – 96pts
Team 4 – 94pts
Team 5 – 92pts
Team 6 – 80pts
Team 7 – 75pts
Team 8 – 30pts
From Conference A, Teams 1-3 always get through, and from Conference B, teams 1-4 always get through. But since Conference B’s 5th place team has 92pts to Conference A’s 4th, which has 90pts, Conference B Team 5 crosses over to Conference A for the playoffs, making:
A-1 vs. B-5
A-2 vs. A-3
B-1 vs. B-4
B-2 vs. B-3
Yeah my question was just who B5 would play. So its A-1 which was my guess. Sounds like it more or less evens things out to me.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Yeah but apparently they shot that down already, presumably because its actually fair so they can’t have that.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
And in this system, if you have a choice
would your rather be in the 7 team conference or the 8? Or are you indifferent?
Someone run the numbers. I am not sure.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
it’d prob be faster to run a sim than actually run the numbers
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Okay someone do that.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I already did this back in July:
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2011/7/27/2299340/uneven-divisions-produce-uneven-results
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
That would require writing a program to create a schedule and run through game-by-game, which is a way bigger time commitment than I can get involved in right now.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
i ran a sim
I assigned random point totals to 2 divisions (one of seven and one of eight) and compared the 5th ranked team in the eight team division and the 4th ranked team in the seven team division.
And got that a team will cross over approximately 45% of the time.
Ideally, you want a team to cross over 26% of the time if it were perfectly fair, so it moves the bias towards the larger division and decreases it from 12.5% to 10%.
However, the 4 seed in a seven-team division gets half their divisional games against teams that are worse than they are while the 5 seed only gets 43% of their divisional games against teams that are worse than they are, so some of this bias will be made up by having a “harder” schedule.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
I spent like… 10 minutes of my life running the sim and no one cared :(
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
must not have been controversial enough. Let's add some media buzzwords
I ran the sim 1967 times… because i was running 100 at a time x 20 times, but made an error so i had to throw out 33 from the first batch.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
cute, that was the answer we were looking for, but I’m not sure what you mean about the small team getting easier games. If talent is distributed randomly then they should have 50% of their games against better teams. How do you get a different answer than that?
I would rather be in the 8 team conference, and here's why.
You play 6 games against teams in your own conference/division yes? Compared to the 7 team conference, that’s an additional 6 games I have to effectively take points away from a team I’m directly competing for a playoff spot against, meaning each game is worth 4 points in the playoff standings. If I’m in the 7 team conference, I lose 6 of those 4 point games.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
If you’re in the 7 team conference, your odds of making the playoffs are 12.5% higher. An owner who fails to recognise that and agrees to be in an 8 team conference is being foolish.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
So I’m just confused how this is fair? Can they league really do that?
Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Well, before the expansion teams came in around the turn of the century, weren’t there uneven divisions/
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
yes
three five team and one six team division in the late 80s
Yeah, I don’t see it being as clear cut as that at all. In fact, with more teams in a conference, I would expect the teams at the bottom to be worse than those in the 7 team conference and the ability to gain points off of them easier.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
You wouldn’t notice it in just 1 or 2 seasons, but in the long run teams in the 8 team conferences will have less playoff appearances. There are more teams fighting for an equivalent number of berths. There’s no way around it, it’s just the way it works out.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
No, you’re ignoring the crossover rule. I’m sure there’s a difference, but I’d expect it would be something more like ~2-3%
Right, and with the cross-over rule, I want to play more games against in conference foes so I can deny them points by winning.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Yeah, I agree with this.
And I’m not sure if this would count as the same thing, but in the 7-team conference you’re effectively competing with all 15 teams.. because any one of the team’s in the 8-team division can knock you out of the playoffs if you’re in 4th, based on their points.
Whereas in the 8-team conference you’re guaranteed a spot if you’re in 4th
But then if you lose those games they make up double the ground on you. That cuts both ways.
In fact, I’d imagine the net effect is just to increase dispersion (good teams do better, bad teams do worse), but not to change the mean in either direction.
Because the cut point for making the playoffs is in the middle of the pack (it’s spot 4 out of 8), that increased dispersion might not even matter that much – it’ll mostly affect the teams at the top (who were getting in anyway) and bottom (who weren’t anyway).
The most convincing evidence on this is Ubiquitous, above, who gamed the whole thing out and found that those in the division of 8 got the decisive advantage.
I imagine a team like Florida is willing to concede a lower % chance of making the playoffs if the % increae in their revenue as a result of the switch is greater (which going to a division with TOR, OTT and MON would accomplish)
The idea that the scheduling format has to be completely devoid of bias and imbalance is a myth perpetrated by fans. I would hyptohesize that owners don’t care about the format of the schedule so long as its’ primary function is to maximize profits.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Just scrap the conferences for the playoffs and seed everyone according to where they finished. For the playoffs go…
1 vs 16
2 vs 15
3 vs 14 and so on
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Dec 5, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
No I want the playoffs to be intra-division.
Hockey at its core is a regional game. The best way to foster that feeling of vitriol between a fanbase and is immediate rivals is the familiarity of frequent playoff battles.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Bingo!
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Not to go all conspiracy nut on you but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Jets, Whalers and Nordiques franchises all failed once the NHL scrapped their divisional alignment.
When you have a long-standing rivalry with the teams you play the most frequently, the fans will naturally come to watch those games because they mean something much more substantial than just another tedious game in a tediously long season.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
No, they failed because of the exchange rate.
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
Also, playoffs would (should) be more predictable with a “1 vs 16” setup. You would bet that the 1 seed wins most of the matchups against the 16 seed.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Also, 1vs16 would be hell for travel for the team
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I meant, that scenario for the playoffs, not specific 1vs16.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Anybody able to dig up quick stats for NCAA march madness on how many times a 16 seed upset a 1 seed?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
wasn’t finished with that comment,
It’s never happend, but that’s because it’s a one-off game between Duke/Kansas/Kentucky vs. Southern Alcorn St. or some such little school
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
It’s never happened because there are almost 350 DI programs, and the teams given Number 1 seeds are generally viewed as the 4 best programs in the country and the 16 seeds are objectively probably somewhere in the bottom half.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
It would be like the London Knights playing a midget house league team in the first round of the OHL playoffs.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
That’d be pretty funny… I might watch that, just to cheer for the underdog
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
This is true. An exaggeration, but the idea is the same for the NHL.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
but that’s because it’s a one-off game between Duke/Kansas/Kentucky vs. Southern Alcorn St. or some such little school
Wouldn’t you expect a 7 game series to be more telling of the better team than the 1 game elimination?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Dec 5, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely, 99 times out of 100 Duke wins the series in 4 games, but it’d be more entertaining.
The problem being that the tournament already takes a month to complete… going to a series style would take FOREVER
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
1 vs 16 would reward the teams that go balls out for 82 games. It would also help get a Federer VS Nadal type final where the Leafs could conceivably meet the Habs or Bruins in the finals.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Dec 5, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, as a sample
by points percentage, right now we would have:
1. New York Rangers vs. 16. Buffalo (no travel)
2. Boston vs. 15. Los Angeles (lots of travel)
3. Minnesota vs. 14. Toronto (fair amount of travel)
4. Pittsburgh vs. 13. Phoenix (lost of travel)
5. Detroit vs. 12. St. Louis (no travel)
6. Philadelphia vs. 11. Vancouver (lots of travel)
7. Chicago vs. 10. Dallas (fair amount/lots of travel)
8. San Jose vs. 9. Florida (lots of travel)
Easy way to help travel is top seed gets home games 1-2-6-7 and games 3-4-5 are played in the lower seed’s building.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Dec 5, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
My point was trying to back up your point
/fist bump
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Teams in non-traditional hockey markets draw fans by making the playoffs (and winning in them), not by playing lots of games against the Leafs. A system that give the Panthers a better chance of making the playoffs is going to do much more for their bottom line than a system where they can draw in Leafs fans a couple more times a year.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
It’s only 2 additional games in your own division if you play home and home with all other teams. 38 divisional games for an 8 team division vs. 36 for a 7 team division.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
42 games in your own division leaves 40 games to play home and home with the 22 non divisional teams. Get it now?
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
No, you don’t get it. The league wants every team to play home and home with all non divisional teams. For a 7 team division, that’s 46 games out of division and 36 games within. For an 8 team division, that’s 44 games out of division and 38 within, which is 2 extra intra-divisional games.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Dec 5, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I get the “want” part, but it simply doesn’t work out now does it? So in such a case, they’ll have to rotate the home and homes.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Honestly, it’d even depend on the division. An 8 team division with 5 weak teams would still be way easier to handle than a 7 team division with 5 strong teams.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Except what teams are good and bad likely won’t hold true for the life of the division.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
The only way I get behind a new Divisional format (including Divisional playoffs) is if they take this opportunity to put 2 teams out of their misery.
Since this will obviously not happen, I’m going to go ahead and declare my hatred for the new system, whatever it is.
That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.
Another thought on realignment
If they addressed the potential unfairness of 7-team vs 8-team divisions through crossovers, the unbalanced schedule could render the crossover itself unfair (i.e., the worst three teams in the league are B-6, B-7 and B-8, which B-5 feasts on in order to surpass A-4’s point totals).
How about a modified crossover — B-5 can replace A-4 in the A playoffs IF B-5 has more points than A-4 AND B-5 defeats A-4 head-to-head during the regular season (i.e., more points in the two head-to-head games). My understanding is that non-divisional teams will meet home and away every season. Might add some spice to play the Kings or Blues knowing that crossover eligibility is at stake.
Overtime loss: The new black.
I agree with this, or to add two. I know that won’t happen right now, but move Miami and Phoenix, add Quebec, Seattle, Houston, Minneapolis, Kansas City and Hamilton/Toronto. If Houston doesn’t work after 6 years you go to Vegas.
See I think what Florida really needs to do is move into Miami (they’re currently situated about as close to Miami as Ottawa is to Ottawa).
Florida might be a sound team if it was closer to the population center
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda think they need to move into the Atlantic Ocean, but that’s just me.
Or is it the Gulf there?
by Self Destructive Zones on Dec 5, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
via Henny, who I now have tons more respect for
Franson in tonight, Aulie out
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 11:18 AM EST reply actions
Thank goodness. Franson has been playing fairly well.
I will stand beside him with an axe! @theninjagreg
Paul MacLean confirms that Nikita Filatov will be a healthy scratch again tonight vs TB. Bobby Butler will play 1st line wing.
El oh El
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Weren’t there people here really disappointed we didn’t take a flyer on him in the draft a few years back?
I didnt think we should draft him, but not going to lie, I was really upset we didn’t trade that 3rd for him at this past draft.
and now you realize you were wrong to be upset?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I thought it was a fair gamble at the time, and I stand by that. Odds of a 3rd round draft pick turning out better than Filatov has so far are still very low.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Dec 5, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
So Wilson pulled the overly-salivating media's leg a little bit...
Who cares?
What I really want to know is whether or not anyone’s got pics of the new mask Reimer was wearing on Saturday?
by c_gee on Dec 5, 2011 11:46 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Frat Party
Is anybody else just waiting in total excitement for Frattin’s breakout game? I mean I really do see a lot of potential.
by Dexter'd on Dec 5, 2011 1:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That’d be great if Frattin ended up on a line with McKegg… all sorts of Frat/Keg jokes
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Drew Miller, you have Frat/Keg/Miller = the Bro Line.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Kulemin shooting % regression to the mean is ridiculously low. And I was thinking earlier this season that Clarke would be in doghouse because of his big assist numbers on the MKG line last year. But to his credit even with the MKG line not clicking, he has found a way to put goals to bolster his point score.
MacA has really impressed me thus far this year. Even away from Grabbo and Kulemin he’s putting up good numbers and has been one of the more solid players on the team
Not that he’s a guy you want to base a scoring line around, but he’s certainly a guy I’d like to keep around as a player that can make a line better
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Assuming you guys have seen the latest what we learned. Clicked the link on the ridiculous story about Ovechkin juicing and saw this comment that I can only hope was posted by a Leafs fan:
: 12/5/2011
Some nice speculation here. I too would like to know
Damien
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
by CoolJ90 on Dec 5, 2011 1:47 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
More (kinda) on Stastny
A Cullen article looking at random stats has this tidbit on Stastny and Colorado centres:
While production and ice time has been hit-or-miss for Avalanche centres Paul Stastny and Matt Duchene this year, third-year pivot Ryan O’Reilly is making his mark.
Clearly this means that Colorado has O’Reilly so they would be willing to part with Stastny!
/dreaming.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Do you know the status of Statsny at the moment?
I know he left the game last night with a “torso” injury.
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
If they are out of the playoff race the avs will have to consider offers especially to save some salary.
And practically their entire team are expiring RFA/UFAs except a couple forwards, dman and the goalie tandem. I think him on trading block is rumor worthy.
They still can’t go below the cap floor. They would need to take back roughly 5 mil to stay above it.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Roughly 5 million you say? (checks capgeek) Mike Komisarek makes 4.5 million…
by Chi-town leafs on Dec 5, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
They are going to want quality:p.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Only if they send back a 7th
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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In all seriousness
I think they would want young players. Guys who are ready/on the verge of being ready. So either the Schenn’s/Gardiner’s of the world, the Kulemin/MacA’s (late RFA years), or the Kadri/Colbornes. May mix in an older guy to make the dollars work.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I just realized by experience Schenn is more like Kule/MacA, but I compared him to Gardiner because of age…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I am not a fan of Statsny’s contract – it’s big and the last 1.5 seasons he has not player anywhere near that level. I acknowledge his skills but I wouldn’t be paying to steep a price for him.
Its been more like one season. Until last February or so when the whole team collapsed he was playing well. I am aware that he is overpaid based on his current production, but he is young and still has great career numbers. He also is good in the dot and can play in all situations.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Further
At 25 (turning 26 in a few weeks) he is still a career 0.90 PPG player (even with his shitty play of the last year). I want.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Since he entered the league
He is 16th in PPG by a C (31st overall). That is very damn good.
Of the 15 guys ahead of him only 5 are younger than him (Stamkos, Backstrom, Malkin, Crosby, and Kopitar).
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
What would you be willing to give up for him? I know he’s good but I just would be hesitant to give up a Schenn/Kadri combo or Gunnar/Kulie/1st type of deal.
I have no idea what it would cost but something like Schenn +grabbo/MacA works for salary. Its probably not what they want though.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Agree with that – I can’t see them replacing stasny’s salary with a combo of mac or kulie or schenn salary because they want to keep close to cap floor. They might as well keep statsny. I think they would want to replace his salary with kadri + picks + prospects with elc time + UFA (to hit 5M or whatever the number is).
I feel like Burtch here
I ran his splits last year.
In the fall of 2010 he played 40 games and had 15 G and 36 points.
In the winter/spring he played 34 games and had 7 G and 21 points.
So he went from 0.375 GPG and 0.90 PPG to 0.21 GPG and 0.62 PPG. So yeah he’s been off in 2011.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
His P/60 have also declined drastically from his 2007-2008 season (when he had a lot of second assists).
P/60 (at ES) and pts/GP
2007/2008 3.12 1.08
2008/2009 1.59 0.80
2009/2010 2.42 0.98
2010/2011 1.83 0.77
2011/2010 1.10 0.56
Remember that the first number is ES and the second is total. Take it for what you will.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I don’t think we’re a trading partner for Colorado for Stastny.
Not with Connolly under contract, Grabbo’s status uncertain, and Colborne coming next year. The Leafs need help on the wings and on defence.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I don’t disagree. He was just a big name around here last summer.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Actually
I don’t necessarily agree that we need help on the wings. With Lupul/Kessel/MacA/Kulemin + Kadri/Frattin/Mueller + Army/Lombardi I am quite content with our wingers for the next 2 years or so. I am most concerned about our D though.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
With the exception of Kessel, are any of those really to turn into high end players? I’m not certain any of them turn into a true top 3 player like Kessel
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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I think all three of Lupul, Kulemin (he needs to refind his game) and MacA are proving they are legitimate top 3/6 wingers. I don’t know how good you want them, but I am happy if we can have 6 guys who can get 20/50 if 2 or 3 of them can approach 30 goals and/or 80 points.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
How exactly is Kulemin proving he is a high end player?
Lupul is right now. He is having the best season of his career at 29.
Leafs need help on the wings as much as anywhere
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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if by help you mean “elite” help, then sure, but as it stands now they have the two most elite wingers in the game
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Top end help. Can Lupul duplicate this success next season remains to be seen.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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I said it before this season and I’ll say it again. I don’t think he can keep this up, but he is a high 20 goal mid 50 point player. That is a first line winger. It isn’t the stud who leads the line/team, but everyone can’t be.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
How was this not clear:
Kulemin (he needs to refind his game)
I showed below that Lupul over the last 4 years has been a top 3 player. In addition while this is his best year, he has consistently been above 0.32 GPG through his prime. Thats a very good goal scorer.
And of course we need help on the wings in that everyone can improve every part of their team, I just think we need help in C’s before and G and D first.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I showed below that Lupul over the last 4 years has been a top 3 player
Unfortunately that four year stretch for Lupul covers ages 24 – 28, aka the apex of vritually every NHL forward.
Can Lupul maintain a top 6 forward level of production for the duration of his contract? Absolutely. But he’ll be 30 at that point which means the team is looking at diminishing returns for what you know will be a higher cap hit.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I don’t think Joffrey Lupul is a long-term solution on this club.
At the end of that contract the Leafs need to have had Nazem Kadri play him off the team. Or at the very least have bumped him down and subsequently bump someone lower on the depth chart off the team.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Lupul is what he always was, a stop gap top 6 winger, his exploding this year doesn’t really change that. it gives the Leafs 2 years to evaluate what they have and fill holes accordingly
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough. I can understand wanting to replace him with someone younger. Makes sense to me. Its the concept of “upgrading” the player (which I guess I may just mistakenly take to mean upgrade talent) that seems ridiculous.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Oh I saw it. You are hoping that a player can refind his game, I get it. What if those 30 goals last year were an anomaly? What if his game is 15 goals?
I like Kulemin and all, but if he can be upgraded, do it. I’m not banking on him being anymore than a 20-25g scorer
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Fair enough. I don’t think most second lines have more than 20-25 goal scorers though.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I should clarify
Even on championship teams, I don’t think most teams have their #3 and 4 winger scoring more than 20-25 goals.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Okay but the problem is right now Lupul is our #2 guy and he’s only capable of getting you that 20-25.
The only ways for Lupul to become that #3 guy is to acquire somebody to knock Lupul down into that #3 slot.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Well I think Lupul right now is a high 20 goal guy (I said it this summer than he should be predicted for about 27 or 28 goals). So based on that, this year, he is a #2 winger.
Regardless you are right, that in the long run he needs to be replaced.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Which is what we have been saying all along!
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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I agreed to that up top:
Fair enough. I can understand wanting to replace him with someone younger. Makes sense to me. Its the concept of "upgrading" the player (which I guess I may just mistakenly take to mean upgrade talent) that seems ridiculous.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is…
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
by BCapp on Dec 5, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Like Bower Power, I’ve really started to embrace the idea that the ages of your key players is of the utmost importance, and you need to build the rest of the team accordingly.
The Leafs three key players right now are Kessel (24), Phaneuf (26), and Reimer (23). Based on the history of the league, Kessel’s just entering his peak, Phaneuf’s currently in his, and Reimer is probably 2-3 years away from his. So basically the Kessel-Phaneuf Era of this team will last as long as Kessel and Phaneuf remain in their prime (for argument’s sake, let’s say 3 years, which takes Kessel to 27, Phaneuf to 29, and Reimer to 26.).
So then you build your supporting cast with guys who complement those guys’ ages; so you’ve Connolly (30), Grabovski (28) Lupul (28) and MacArthur (26) as the secondary scoring, and Gunnarsson (25) on defence. Ideally we could use one more Dman around 26-27.
After that, you need your succession plan; the guys who form the next wave of talent; the guys who will eventually replace your key guys. Because the supporting cast can be found anywhere, and the role players ultimately don’t matter. The Leafs have Kadri (21), Colborne (22), Gardiner (21) and depending on how you feel about him, Schenn (22).
So three years from now, the team will hopefully be transitioning from the Kessel-Phaneuf era to the Kadri-Colborne era. That team would be built around Kadri (24), Colborne (25), Gardiner (24), Schenn (25) and Reimer (27). Then Kessel (27), Phaneuf (29) , Gunnarsson (28) and Kulemin (28) are the supporting cast.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I think its easy to get TOO obsessed with age
Look at a guys like Patrick Sharpe and Nicklas Kronwall and the contracts they just got at ~29 years old. Most players don’t hit a wall and automatically suck at 30. They are just a little less productive. Its not the end of the world to have a bunch of them on the team.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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Also
I don’t know when the peak is for Dmen or goalies. I would guess its probably a tad later than forwards.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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Yeah D-men and goalies would peak later. That’s why Phaneuf’s 26 and I said he’s currently peaking, and why at 23 Reimer should be able to maintain his role through both of those eras.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
That makes sense.
An attempt to quickly analyze defenseman’s peak came up with the following: defenseman playing greater than 1968 minutes in a single season (works out to 24 minutes/GP if they played the whole season) since the lockout organized by age.
Obviously this is hugely limited because it is total TOI and not average, so injured players are unlikely to make it. What I see is a bunch of different names from 23-31. But after that it becomes a pretty exclusive list of truly great players( plus Corvo).
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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There will always be those that peak early.
There will always be those who are late bloomers.
There will always be those that defy the entire process and remain remarkably productive well past when everyone expects them to.
But three things;
1) I don’t think you can accurately plan for any of those things to happen.
2) I think that you ignore this sort of thinking at your own peril; I mean we’re already seeing that perhaps 26 year old Ovechkin isn’t the same player that 23 year-old Ovechkin was, or more in line with the development curve, 30 year old Kovalchuk isn’t the same player that 25 year old Kovalchuk was.
3) The teams that are successful for sustained periods of time are the ones that THINK ABOUT THIS SORT OF THING.
This, above all else, is what’s kept the Wings on top for 15 + years. They went from Yzerman & Fedorov, to Yzerman’s extended prime, to Datsyuk & Zetterberg. They got remarkably lucky with Yzerman and Lidstrom falling into that third category of outliers; guys who just seem to be good forever. Now they need to come up with a succession plan for those two guys.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Thats fair. But I just think we need to be a little hesitant to automatically drop any guy at 29. They can still be important players on your team. You just need to be aware how much of the cap you are willing to devote to them.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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So does Kessel get a raise above his 5.4M in 2014 if his production does not drop off at the contract date?
Absolutely.
If he maintains being a 30 goal scorer for the remainder of his current contract, that gives him 6 30-goal seasons.
This is a list of the players with the most multiple 30-goal seasons since the 95 lockout. 22 players had 6 or more.
Kessel will have had 6 30-goal season between the ages of 21 and 27. From just the guys who have 6 30-goal seasons, here are the guys who did it over a similar age;
Marian Gaborik (21 – 27)
Rick Nash (19 – 26)
Alexander Ovechkin (20 – 25)
Ziggy Palffy (23 – 30)
Marian Gaborik (19 – 27)
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Anyway I am out
Been a good discussion.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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I think players like Ovechkin and Kovalchuk whose game depends on raw overpowering explosive physicality are going to be the ones most prone to decline. They lose a slight edge in strength and speed and power, and that wipes out a huge chunk of what made them special.
In contrast, I suspect Crosby is going to be a player that ages more like Federov because hand-eye coordination and hockey smarts don’t fade the same way. Kessel’s all about the wrist shot and the skating speed so I’d expect him to probably have a pretty bad drop off when he loses that top top gear.
Most players don’t hit a wall and automatically suck at 30.
The problem I see, though, is that the NHL isn’t really set up for “okay, guys, now we’re trying, so let’s win a cup.” If the Leafs’ (realistic) cup-contention window opens in two years – an optimistic pick already – and takes another two or three years of final-four appearances before making the finals (see: San Jose, for example), then we start having to replace pieces. So the question isn’t really “will this player be productive in two years?” as much as it’s “Will this player be productive in two to five? And, if not, will he still contribute in a different role?” The answer for Lupul, Connolly, and probably even Grabovski, in my mind, is more likely to be “no” than “yes.” It’s not a knock on them, it’s just a matter of foresight while we’re sitting around rosterbaiting and playing armchair-GM.
In my opinion, it’s really important that a team be positioned to go year-to-year as a contender, rather than leveraging everything on a flame-out run.
And players like Patrick Sharpe posted 60+ points 3 of the last 4 years. I’ll be surprised if Lupul ends up in that kind of territory.
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Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Dec 5, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with most of what you said here
The only thing I want to point out, is that you aren’t completely locked into a player you sign (unless of course you give them a full NTC/NMC). So you don’t have to move the 28 year old today. You can move him at 30. Yes his value will have decreased, but you will also have had that good player for 2 years. It is important to keep quality in the lineup as you need to build experience contending as a club. What team has ever won the cup without making the playoffs the year before?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I think it’s pretty rare that you’re going to have a 30 year old player on a 27/8 year old’s UFA contract that will give you a useful asset when you’re in mid-cup run. I think unless you’re really pulling for a cup, you’re much better off ditching that player when he’s 27 or 28, missing out on two to three years of productivity, and acquiring a player like him as a “final piece.”
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Me on Twitter
See, that’s probably a pretty balanced idea, only prone to being wrong depending on the specific situation.
But how many GM’s feel they need to do something to push them over the top and how many of them feel more pressure to do well now then think about just being good for the long term? I am going to say a whole lot of them.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
with his 2 way game, and higher scoring line mates, I am perfectly satisfied with Kulemin being a 20-30 2nd line guy
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Right. He is what he is. Don’t tell me he is a bonafide top line player, because he isn’t
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well that depends which is the real Kulemin, last years or this years or something in between, thing is we don’t know and that now he isnt playing like one, so cest la vie
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
The Leafs need help on the wings.
Kessel, Lupul, MacArthur, Kulemin, Kadri, Frattin, Armstrong in the top 9, with Grabovski even spending some time on a wing with Connolly and Lupul. In the long term, Lupul needs to be upgraded, but I’m not so sure the Leafs should be in the market for a winger right now.
In contrast, Connolly, Grabovski, Bozak, Colborne down the middle, as Lombardi has spent relatively little time in the C slot (though he could). Grabbo either needs to be re-signed or traded, and Connolly needs to be replaced in a year. I’m not saying Stastny is a realistic target, but I do think we should be looking for a talented young center.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Why do we need to upgrade Lupul? Do you just mean replace him with someone younger? Frankly I am content with someone of his skill (if he can stay healthy) as our 3rd best forward.
Over the last 4 years he is 78th in points per game and 40th in GPG.
He is a first line forward. By those measures he is a top 3 point scorer and top 2 goal scorer over the last 4 years. If he can stay healthy he could be a key piece in a contending team.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
How is this "lying" being demonized the way it is??
If we were led to believe Gustavsson was starting and then at 7 pm Reimer came out of the tunnel first and actually played I would consider this lying. But everyone knew at 12 pm on gameday that it was Reimer starting; 7 hours before game time!! This is not unlike the MLB or NFL where you could find out who the starting pitcher or starting quarterback is only an hour before gametime (if the starting pitcher doesn’t feel right in warmup he could be pulled). Ron Wilson has every right to change his mind and inform the media 7 hours before game time as he did.
On a side note – the lying to Gustavsson thing – obviously he’s going to tell Gustavsson on Friday to be ready to start. Reimer could show up at the pre-game skate at noon complaining of headaches and Gustavsson would be scrambling. Also, remember that Scrivens was in Boston and took the pre-game skate and was only sent down at the 5 pm deadline, in case Reimer wasn’t ready.
Can anyone imagine what would have happened if Wilson had said Friday that Reimer was starting and then he doesn’t feel right on Saturday and Wilson has to explain to everyone that Reimer actually isn’t ready?
A Coach's Right to Alter their Lines is Sacrosanct
Otherwise, Damien Cox would be running the leafs. Do you want Cox deciding lines? I don’t think so.
So long as this ploy doesn’t become a regular occurrence, I see no harm in a bit of “misdirection” especially in this crazy town, where players who sneeze could get their tissues examined for “cold or flu symptoms?”
Hey, remember when Ron Wilson’d the media when Scrivens played his first game? I can’t be the only guy who saw that and went “Wow… that’s… fucking brilliant! Points to RW there” Great way to take pressure and attention off the rookie, so he didn’t have to deal with cameras shoved in his face when he should be warming up.
Because this town’s media runs on the day-to-day occurences of the Leafs, and routinely the media and fanbase blow shit out of proportion,
you guys realize this whole lying thing is just backlash from RW and Burke condemning reporters that asked reimer’s mother about his medical condition.
shit’s going to get flung both ways now that Burke and Wilson aren’t exactly what you would call media darlings.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
I think we’re all aware of this
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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that makes damien even more of a whiny entitled asshole
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Dec 5, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Is that even possible? Would not have gambled on that prior to this weekend…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Dec 5, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
One reporter did that. That should affect all 60+ that cover the team negatively?
All hockey all the time at The Globe and Mail
by James Mirtle on Dec 5, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure if you saw this article from Justin Bourne
In hockey, lying to the media is seen as "professionalism," and that’s annoying
It’s worth a read. I agree with him, but the reason players and coaches can’t be honest with media is the same reason they are getting mad at being “lied” to now: everyone, MSM and bloggers included, blow even the smallest shit way out of proportion. Remember Champagne?
I will stand beside him with an axe! @theninjagreg
Players like Crosby and Toews have been playing hockey for so long, and almost to the exclusion of anything else, that I don’t think there really is anything underneath the media veneer
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Dec 5, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
sorry about this but,
JOHN MITCHELL IS PROBABLY GONNA SCORE TONIGHT.
FUCKFUCKFUCK
/compelled to say something stupid
...............................
Frattin ain't easy.
Me score goal?
That’s unpossible
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- There's a Loblaws on Carelton?!
That soft goal gave me a hard Colboner...
JFM will pull a 2008 JFM and score two goals. Both on the Rangers.
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
What I'm really terrified of
Is Boyd Deveaux getting signed by some team and having HIS return to the damn ACC. He already burned us with one ill-timed hattrick, you just know he has one more in him… and that it would come in the game that would knock us firmly and finally out of the playoffs for the year.
That jaggof.
Anyone think Wilson and Burke would have joined twitter sooner if they realized they could use it to troll people ALL THE TIME?
Mike Weber Pressbox Incarceration Status: Transferred to IR Jail.
speaking of twitter...
@DamoSpin Damien Cox @
@RealBillWatters Wilbur, you’re the best addition to Twitter in a while! Let ’er rip! MLSE already quaking….
ROFL at everything about this. whats that line about birds and feathers?
...............................
Frattin ain't easy.
See most recent tweet of mine:
So does anyone actually care what @DamoSpin thinks? Anyone at all? #gottaaskthequestion
11 seconds ago Favorite Reply Delete
TWEET AT ME BRO
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Dec 5, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
See that tweet fucking pisses me off. Proves that Cox dislikes MLSE and is adversarial just because he is a pompous dick. He wants Watters on there to spew more useless rhetoric and opine on the problems with every aspect of the leads organization. I have never followed Damien on twitter and won’t follow Watters.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Leafs-fuck you non-jailbroken iPhone.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
it’s ok we are the lead organization.
#Centreoftheuniverse
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
I’m ranty today.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
..
Hello, Richard? Burke here. Bad news, Watters is on twitter :( we need to schedule a board meeting ASAP so we can avoid any complications and/or disasters that this will surely bring us.
...............................
Frattin ain't easy.
If it is not illegal, and not blatantly against any rule then Wilson or Burke can do or say whatever the hell they want. Does it make them assholes? Maybe, but if it squeezes any advantage for the Leafs at all, let them.
Besides, I have determined that a lot of people i respect can be assholes from time to time.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 6:17 PM EST reply actions
I never said I respected you, asshole
I’m a Jerk
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
But I do respect you, so don’t worry about it.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Dec 5, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Wilson pissing off Cox should get him consideration as 3rd star of the week.
Way to go Ronnie.
The Leafs owe the media nothing beyond what is mandated by the NHL bylaws. ANY manipulation of the media to gain an advantage – perceived or genuine – is A OK with me.
As Traxler says in Terminator:
Let’s see if we can’t get these assholes working for us for a change."
OK to go!
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