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Fun With Numbers

Ok so as I was perusing various statistical pages last night, I stumbled across some interesting team statistics that have received nary a mention in the mainstream press. Why? you might be asking yourself, would we want to know anything that isn't quoted in the mainstream press?

Well folks, the main reason you might want to know is because the press is fond of spinning things a certain way to convince you a team is or isn't playing well at a certain time of year. This helps fit with narratives that the writers construct as they carry you through the season. They may not even be doing it consciously. I know I do it, I'm aware of the spin I put on things, but I usually own up to it when it's pointed out.

For instance, I'll gladly harp on players I've touted as possible successes whenever they play well during the regular season. Similarly, members of the MSM will often point at poor aspects of the Leafs game, and highlight them as if they mean horrible things for the state of hockey in Toronto. Read on for some examples.

Star-divide

Let's start with the most obvious area of regular concern in the press when it comes to the coaching of Ron Wilson: special teams. Ignoring the fact that Greg Cronin and Scott Gordon are largely responsible for the PK and PP respectively, and that both parts of the Leafs game have improved drastically since the change in Wilson's assistants, there are some curious points to be made.

1. The Leafs PP has shot up the ranks to 2nd in the NHL at 22.1%. They've had 104 opportunities and produced 23 goals. The only team superior to the Leafs is Vancover at 25.9%. More impressive though, is that the Leafs are tied for the 3rd most PP goals with Florida at 23, behind Philadelphia (24) and Vancouver (30), but they've produced those goals in only 159:42 of PP time. If we look at their PPG/60 mins of power play time, they're still 2nd behind Vancouver, producing 8.64 G/60 (Van is at 10.09 G/60).

Now, I'm pretty sure last year the Leafs failures on the PP were widely quoted as a reason why Wilson should be fired... I assume that means this year his success is an excuse to give him a contract extension? Probably not - because that doesn't mesh with the narrative. I'm looking forward to stories about how Philadelphia, Vancouver, and Colorado can't sustain such great PP numbers, and how their coaches don't deserve ANY credit whatsoever for their solid play.

2. The Leafs PK is still pretty bad at 76.6% success. That being said, they're still superior to San Jose (74.3%) and Chicago (75.3%) so they can't be all bad can they? If PK success is a sign of a superior coach, then Todd McClellan and Joel Quenville are obviously incompetent bums... or perhaps it isn't a sign of a hugely superior coach. Either way, I hope you see how THIS part doesn't fit into the narrative. I hope to be reading lots of stories soon about how horrible the coaching of the Sharks and Blackhawks is, and how they are destined to crash and burn because of bad PK units.

3. Toronto has scored first in 15 games this season. Historically the press and telecasters have harped about how the Leafs are a sad sack of slow starting misfits that don't deserve to share the ice with their more lively counterparts around the NHL. That total ranks the Leafs 8th in the NHL (Detroit is tops with 19) and 3rd in the East behind Philadelphia (17) and Pittsburgh (16).

More interestingly, those juggernauts from the West, San Jose, Minnesota, and Chicago? They're the three bottom teams in the NHL, having scored the first goal in only 9 (SJS) and 10 (MIN and CHI) games thus far respectively. Boston similarly has only jumped out to score the first goal on 10 occasions through 26 games, so obviously either they're not as amazing as we're led to believe, or scoring the first goal isn't all its cracked up to be.

Not sure when we'll start to hear about how Boston, Chicago, San Jose, and Minnesota all suck because they don't often score the first goal - maybe in the second half when their numbers either shift, or they start to lose a lot of games as a result of crap play. Minnesota and Boston have already come from behind to win 12 and 9 games respectively, and I sincerely doubt they can keep doing that with regularity all season long.

4. Toronto has the 3rd best winning percentage of NHL clubs leading after 1 period of play at .909 (10-1-0), and they're tied for the best winning percentage of NHL clubs leading after 2 periods at 1.000 (10-0-0). They're holding leads when they close out a period with one... they don't seem to come out flat after a period and surrender points to the opposition when Wilson has the time to get them to regroup and protect what they've earned.

The only teams to close out the first period with a lead more frequently than Toronto so far this year are Detroit (14) and Pittsburgh (13), and neither club has a comparable winning percentage (Det = .786, Pit = .692).

5. Toronto seems to have balanced out their goal production period to period. They have 26 first period goals (tied for 5th best in the NHL), they have 27 second period goals (tied for 7th best in the NHL), and they have 32 third period goals (4th best in the NHL). They don't take a period off, they produce pretty solidly throughout the game offensively. This is yet another sign of solid effort from the team on behalf of their coach.

6. Unfortunately their defensive efforts are also consistently weak. It's hard to get a good read on the Leafs D what with the injury to Reimer, but allowing 24, 30, and 33 goals in the first, second, and third periods respectively is pretty bad across the board. The one solid thing about this though, is the Leafs don't seem to take periods off completely.

Compare those numbers to the likes of Chicago who go from allowing 25 first period goals, to 40 second period goals, and back down to 19 third period goals; or perhaps Detroit, who go from 12 first period goals (stellar), to 24 second period goals (wtf?) and 22 third period goals. Having a stellar period of defense would help the Leafs overall, but realistically they just need to cut down on goals against in every segment of the game.

7. The Leafs goalies are actually good in the shoot out. They have the second best team SV% in the shoot out in the NHL at .800. That may not seem good, but in a league where the median shoot out SV% is .667, then yeah, it's pretty solid.

Ok so, there's some food for thought, feel free to discuss what you think of these types of numbers - some obviously just vary wildly as the year goes on, but others are definitely ignored whenever it suits the people providing the information.

Oh and lastly as a shameless plug - if anyone wants to follow me on twitter they can find me @SteveBurtch

Comment 116 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Solid work here Steve. What these numbers seem to suggest is that the Leafs are a legitimately improved team and that with a healthy roster, and some league average goaltending should be able to make the playoffs. They built themselves a nice cushion and the longer they bounce around between 3rd and 6th in the Conference the better. Realistically we should hope for a 4th 5th or 6th finish. Winning the division isn’t really possible and I’d love to match-up against the winner of the Southeast Division in the Playoffs.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 8, 2011 10:10 AM EST reply actions  

I think 4th-6th is a great ceiling for this team and would exceed all my expectations heading in to the season. And yes, I’ve come to believe that it is doable.

by Papa Squid on Dec 8, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Where have you gone

Nikolai Kulemin, Leafs nation turns its lonely eyes to you, woo woo woo

:(

...............................
Frattin ain't easy.

by OffTheChest on Dec 8, 2011 10:41 AM EST reply actions  

oopsie

i was reading Mirtle’s advanced stats after 28 games article and somehow managed to meld it with this post.

...............................
Frattin ain't easy.

by OffTheChest on Dec 8, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

You are forgetting that the media in SJ and Chicago are not nearly as smrt as those dogged Toronto reporters, so they probably don’t even realise their coaches are bums.

by Leaf in Habland on Dec 8, 2011 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

needs more graphs

Resident Internet Tough Guy

by JaredFromLondon on Dec 8, 2011 11:39 AM EST reply actions  

This guy gets it

No more moral victories, no more excuses. Put up or shut up.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Dec 8, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Good laugh.

Just visited a site for that hockey event in Ottawa coming up. Selected numerous times and eventually saw to my delight that Kessel, Phaneuf and Reimer are leading handily especially #81. That project seems to be cruising along swimmingly although King James needs more support.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

So does this post not fit with the local narrative of laughing at MSM reporters with relative aimlessness?

I’m not convinced Wilson should lose his job today, but I don’t think reporters, outside those with hurt feelings (but that’s not what we’re talking about), are even calling for Wilson’s head. If they are, it would help to cite it.

by A Lindros Jaw on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST reply actions  

yeah, exactly. see my more detailed response below.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I think this is a bit of false indignation about the MSM on your part here Burtch.

1. You admit yourself that the new assistants were brought on to help improve the PP. In fact, that was a move forced on Wilson by Burke. So, while the media criticized his special teams performance last season, it’s not necessarily true that he gets credit for the success, since it’s widely acknowledged that the people responsible for their success weren’t brought on by him, and presumably are doing things in a way that is significantly different from how Wilson used to do it.

2. Toronto beat writers aren’t going to talk about how bad the Chicago or San Jose coaches are simply because the PK is worse than the Leafs, because it’s not their job to cover those teams. Maybe check with media outlets in those markets to see what they are saying about those coaches. Maybe they’re saying the exact same thing (that those bad PKs are evidence that the coaches aren’t doing a good job).

3. The Leafs USED to be criticized for being slow starters because they WERE. Last season they were scored on first 50 times (60%). I haven’t heard those criticisms this year because that doesn’t seem to be the case any more.

4. They’re holding wins. Great. Wasn’t this also part of your narrative about Gustavsson though? That he couldn’t hold a lead. Doesn’t t his mean that YOUR narrative also needs updating?

5. I don’t see how balanced production is on the coach, although I agree that the better production int he first period is favorable to Wilson.

6. I don’t think the absence of Reimer really affects our ability to judge the D at this point, since Reimer and Gustavsson have the same SV% at this point.

7. Again, better shootout == better Gustavsson?

The numbers are great. I just don’t see how this turns into a MSM bashing post….

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

This is pretty much what I was getting at. I was going to Burtch the shit out of it though, this is like 20 comments worth of material.

by A Lindros Jaw on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

In the end I think it’s important to remember that not all of the MSM’s work is bullshit, hell even Cox can spin a gem once in a while. (The obvious disclaimer here is that yes, generally we expect more from them, and are often let down.)

by A Lindros Jaw on Dec 8, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Alternatively, just because something isn’t MSM doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be held to the same standards. On average, I’d say like 80% of the FTB is unreadable because it’s hackier than Dimanno.

Not that I mind terribly, because I routinely choose to ignore it, I method I also apply to MSM writers on a daily basis.

by A Lindros Jaw on Dec 8, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I also don’t mind that much, because people tend to get better if they keep at something, provided they have the right attitude.

They may not even be doing it consciously. I know I do it, I’m aware of the spin I put on things, but I usually own up to it when it’s pointed out.

You know, trying to do better next time.

by A Lindros Jaw on Dec 8, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

this is like 20 comments worth of material

in one.

by GettinGiggy on Dec 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The numbers are good way to check reality – I am guilty of the “leafs are slow starters” narrative. So it is not fair to conclude the Leafs are “slow starters” but they still can be wildly inconsistent. They play anywhere from fast skating team with clean passes and an effective chip and chase to being boxed in their zone for minutes on end. That is the mean of starting performance has improved in general but the variance is still quite large.

by jeffgm on Dec 8, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Your own comments in point one contradict each other. You say that Wilson cannot take the credit for the success of this year because new specialists were brought in but you are willing to pile the failures of last year on him. When those failures from last year were also from the assistants that are now fired?

by Ducky_22 on Dec 8, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

well, yes and no. the assistants last year people that were brought on as part of Wilson’s hire (or kept on when he got here). and ultimately, it would seem that the coach, being in charge, would have some say over how the PK and PP are run.

while that’s still somewhat true, the addition of the new assistants was done at the behest of Burke. So Wilson was probably unlikely to say to them “forget your new plan X, we’re going to keep doing things the way I want to do them.”

Put it this way. i think Wilson deserved probably 70% of the blame for the special teams last season. This season he doesn’t deserve 70% of the praise. Probably more like 30%.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

so you

Want to have your cake and eat it too. Ty for being a good example of my problem with this logic.

Wilson wasn’t fired. Hunter and Acton were. Yet you still blame Wilson. Provide an axe and someone grinds it I guess.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 8, 2011 3:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No. You’ve put opinions into a false dichotomy where things either are 100% Wilson fault, or they aren’t.

My opinion is much more nuanced than this. I’m sorry if you can comprehend a nuanced argument. But there’s no need to belittle it simply because you can’t understand it.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Things may not be 100% Wilson’s fault, but it’s not clear why his level of responsibility changes year-to-year. Last year, even though he wasn’t running the PP and PK, he gets most of the blame. This year, because he isn’t running the PP and PK, he gets only a little of the praise?

In the court of public opinion, Steve Simmons is Lionel Hutz.

by The Bag on Dec 8, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

How do you know this?

the addition of the new assistants was done at the behest of Burke.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Dec 8, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Burke said he told Wilson to make the change, and that Wilson did the interviewing and hiring.

- Star

by ShahofToronto on Dec 8, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

on pt. 3

Kevin McGran referred to the ‘regular trend’ for the leafs to start slow after the loss to NJ. This is recent and NOT accurate – unless he means long term.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 8, 2011 3:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I seem to remember the Leafs having trouble in the first 10 minutes or so of most of hte first 10 games.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Dec 8, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

they scored the 1st goal in 6 of the first 10 games, so I guess you can remember it that way, but I don’t see how that relates to the “slow start” model presented when they surrender the first goal to the opposition.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 8, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I mostly just remember it taking a lot of shifts (like a good 10 minutes) to get their legs moving.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Dec 8, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

you should have mentioned examples in your initial post, then. I haven’t encountered those arguments.

also, simply because one person said it doesn’t mean the MSM believes it. You can find an example of a person who will say just about any old stupid thing. Does that really make it worth your time proving they’re wrong?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know

you seem to be working extra hard at it. (since you seem to think I’m a case of a person saying any old stupid thing).

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 8, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Burtch – Great post.

VRN – Your irrational protection of Gustavsson and animosity towards Steve is preventing you from thinking clearly dude.

Toronto beat writers could at least provide context when talking about how bad the leafs PK is. “While an area of concern, other teams have proven they can be successful with a poor PK. Chicago and San Jose are ahead of Toronto in the standings while sporting an even more futile PK”

If they used to be criticized for slow starts – and they were, relentlessly – why not point out relentlessly how much they’ve turned things around? And why not talk about how great they are at holding the lead?

Balanced production can at least in part be due to the coach having the team mentally prepared to compete every period.

Reimer’s sv% in his few games this year is below what he put up last year in a much larger sample size. I’d like to see how things look after (if?) Reimer puts together 20 games of .915 tending.

Shootout is basically a coin toss. Over 500 shootout attempts i bet there’s hardly any difference from team to team or player to player. We’re just seeing a small portion of that 500.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see how I’m not thinking clearly? Can’t reasonable people have a difference of opinion?

I don’t think the MSM are in the business of writing articles touting how great a team is at keeping leads or the improvements they’ve made in some small aspect of the game. Overall the coverage HAS become much more positive of late, although it took much longer than it should have. But I don’t see how the presence of these good numbers makes the MSM idiots for not writing thousands of words praising the amazing and remarkable turnaround. It’s far less interesting than say the incredible start to PK’s season, which several people HAVE written about.

I agree that having them start the games well is a sign of good coaching, since I decried last seasons that their slow starts were a sign of bad coaching. But I think their ability to score goals across all 3 periods is just evidence of their skill. I don’t see look at a guy like Scotty Bowman and say “wow. that guys a great coach because his teams scored IN ALL 3 PERIODS!”

Reimer’s numbers are a 3SA to be sure. But I don’t buy Steve’s argument that Gus being in net means we can’t judge the D so far. Especially since, as I pointed out yesterday, Gus has had the bulk of the tough starts (facing mostly teams in the top 10 in GF).

Shootout is generally a coin toss. Why should the MSM even care about these numbers?

Leafs shootout SV% is .800; News at 11

Worst. Lede. Ever.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Steve Burtch contempt.

Such a profoundly strange thing I have seen way way way too often on PPP. HUGE Leaf fan. Tremendous posts and points filled with stats, numbers and examples that prove his points. Good man. Respectful and polite high school teacher that loves his Leafs and hockey. That is all I have ever gotten out of the guy. What is there not to like?

And yet too often I see people trashing him or at least being disrespectful at best. Are they jealous that he knows more about Toronto and the NHL than they do? Are they jealous that he presents his points with more logic and rationale with backup numbers and examples that they are not able to do? I know not. Just something I have noticed.

Anyway, carry on Leaf scholars, carry on.

I think so.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

interesting that you seem to think I’m disrespecting Steve, yet you feel it’s perfectly fine to suggest that I’m both contemptuous, and disrespectful.

Perhaps, if you think so highly of Burtch, you should see some of his responses to my posts, in which, some would say, I present my points with logic and rationale, and back up my points with numbers.

But ignoring that, you know that it’s perfectly OK around here for people to disagree with each other, don’t you?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I am not talking about just you Doctor.

Merely pointing out something I have noticed in general. Strange.

I have seen a lot of anti-Burtch sentiment in general during my occasional forays on here at PPP during the past, uhhmmmmm, year or so. Never used to see that.

People are allowed to disagree with each other on PPP? Really? No, I never knew that. Lol

And no I am not related to Steve. Lol

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Things to know about Burtch

Writes some solid posts and knows his stuff.
One of the most condescending bastards I’ve ever come across.
Replies to his own posts with alarming frequency.
Will argue for the sake of arguing.
DON’T FEED THE BURTCH
Most polarizing figure in the PPP universe, besides maybe Komisarek and Lady Gaga.

Some days I like what he’s saying, other days I snap on him and want to punch him in the nuts. you just never know.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Although I should add that he’s been a lot less antagonistic lately. Or maybe he just hasn’t been around as much?

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

In any event, this is a gratuitous post so I can Burtch myself.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Seemed appropriate.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe it’s not though, I don’t know.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

OK QUICK: FAVOURITE AND LEAST FAVOURITE CHRISTMAS SONGS.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll start.

Favourite: Blue Christmas (Elvis)

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Least favourite: Wonderful Christmas Time (McCartney)

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously Paul what happened there.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

his entire Wings project was just horrible.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

But what about 'Band on the Run'?

Classic.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I tend to like classics sung by tenors (like O Holy Night).

Or, sadly, I really like ‘All I want for Christmas’ by Mariah. I don’t know why. I hate myself for it.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I also hate ‘Do They Know it’s Christmas Time’

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

that song is preposterous. “There won’t be snow in africa this christmas”. No shit. Just like every christmas Geldof.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

plus, most of the world could give a fuck about Christmas, since they’re Muslims/Hindus/Jews/etc…

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Or atheists like my Chinese amigos and amigas here.

That is the way to go.

Christmas Shistmas!

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I find tinsel distracting

"These balloons aren't going to stay filled till New Year's!"
"Those aren't for New Year's... those are my everyday balloons."

by Isosceles Kramer on Dec 8, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Boney M’s Christmas album is top shelf

"These balloons aren't going to stay filled till New Year's!"
"Those aren't for New Year's... those are my everyday balloons."

by Isosceles Kramer on Dec 8, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

WAT

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

like WAT they have a Christmas album or WAT’s Boney M?

"These balloons aren't going to stay filled till New Year's!"
"Those aren't for New Year's... those are my everyday balloons."

by Isosceles Kramer on Dec 8, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

like WAT every boney m xmas song is my second least favourite xmas song.

they’ll always have rasputin at least.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha! Fair enough, I can see that. My mum’s German and we’ve been listening to that album every Christmas since forever, so you come to love those things you know?

"These balloons aren't going to stay filled till New Year's!"
"Those aren't for New Year's... those are my everyday balloons."

by Isosceles Kramer on Dec 8, 2011 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

YES.

Shift the Burtch is a pretentious guy to Bobby Geldof. There is a pretentious guy!

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions  

dude.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

i know.

at least I can no longer be accused of being a hipster.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I accuse you of first degree hipsterism.

Feed the world. A beautiful sentiment. Great Christmas tune.

What about The Bing and A White Christmas.

That great crooner and family beater and abuser moves me to tears to this day.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the Drifters White Christmas.

Beach Boys ‘little saint nick’ is pretty catchy too.

In general though I just want to listen to the first Elvis xmas album and the Charlie Brown xmas.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Bing’s White Christmas is great. One of my faves.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

not that beatiful. kind of patronizing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgux6aGzb3k

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's a beautiful one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p54CMth4Jpg

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

barenaked ladies and sarah mclachlan due a medley of we three kings / god bless ye merry gentlemen. it’s surprisingly really good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGVNzgUxE-g

related: the drummer from BNL lives on my street.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I like BNL, but I don’t like this song.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

They are SO overrated.

Good lyrics though. Musicianship leaves a lot to be desired though. Great vocals sometimes, but all too infrequently.

‘I am in love with a McDonald’s Girl’ makes me puke to this day. BUT a great title and sentiment.

So rip torned about that band.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

He's old and smokes too much dope.

I think that’s what happened there.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Not

enough one word titles

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

BAH

you’re right.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

burtch fail

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

You

have failed.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Now

Go to your room

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

And

think about

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

What

You’ve done.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I thoroughly enjoyed this Burtching.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Dec 8, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Favourite: Deck the Halls
Least favourite: I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus (Connor)

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm

emptying my spleen on twitter more and on here less… it seems suited to my repetitive short messaging style.

That being said, I do still pop in from time to time, but I’ve been busy with work so it’s a mix of all of the above I guess.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 9, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

PPP.

One big happy love the Leafs forever and beyond that family.

So nice to see.

I thought Jared was the most polarizing figure in the PPP universe?

Lady Gaga? lol Thank God Lebda is gone! Thank you Burkie and Poile.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Most polarizing figure in the PPP universe, besides maybe Komisarek and Lady Gaga.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Derp

Forgot titles.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Derp?

What the hey?

Derp. That is freakin’ hilarious.

OK, you cats have amused me enough. I have to get back to the serious business of Steelers-Browns.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I

am moderately confused right now. O_o

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I

reside in a state of perpetual confusion whenever I come onto this site and post ONE thing.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

they don't have the same SV%

in the same situations though. Reimer’s got a .929 ES SV%, while Gustavsson has one around .914… those aren’t the same.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 8, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

as I pointed out yesterday, Gus has faced the much tougher competition in terms of teams in the top 10 of GF.

i’m not saying Gus has been better. I’m just saying that I don’t buy that we can’t judge our D at this point because Reimer hasn’t been playing.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Honest question: if we’re talking save percentage as opposed to GAA or W/L record, what difference does the quality of competition make? Don’t these high scoring teams score more more because they take more shots as opposed to higher quality shots?

by Papa Squid on Dec 8, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

good question. I had assumed it was because of better skill (higher quality shots. This season, S/G and G/G are correlated .46. So there’s obviously a relationship. But the number of shots taken only accounts for about 20% of the variance in goals scored. So there’s more to it than just shots.

In other words, one might expect that SV% should be lower against teams that score more goals/g.

But I’m sure Burtch has some numbers and will present them with more logic and rational than I can, because apparently I’m just jealous.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Rationale.

He spells better too Dr. Van Ryn. You’re just a jealous guy. Lol

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

not putting an e on a word == jealous?

where’s that rationalE and logic you so highly value?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly you did not see my Lol

I am jesting Doctor.

You seem to veering off to the personal here when I take almost none of this seriously. I came on here today to point out in my first post above that I found it amusing that Project M. is paying wonderful dividends.

Very funny and also very excellent!

Off to watch the Steelers win a football game and hope for the Canucks to come back against the Canadiens. Bloody Canucks blew it at the Misery Centre last year, and looks like Carrie wants to beat his home province squad again tonight. Unbeleafable.

Cheers to you and much respect Doctor Van Ryn. Have a wonderful soiree.

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t mean to hurt you. I’m sorry that I made you cry.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

A Roxy Music fan.

Do the strand and keep on rollin’ Daoust!

Or was that a Bryan Ferry solo tune?

Maybe I smoke too much dope?

Loathing the Habs with every fibre of my being since 1963.

by Pyramid Power on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Roxy’s hit or miss for me. Mostly miss. Love is the Drug is a pretty classic tune though.

That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.

by daoust on Dec 8, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

that was a Ferry solo tune but I’m almost afraid to ask if you really think Ferry wrote that.

I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.

by Chuck Diesel on Dec 9, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

HAHAHAHAAAaaa.

so rec’d.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate it when I miss the genesis of a meme.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 8, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

yesterday’s FTB —> ctrl f “Steve Burtch”

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Dec 8, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I

Was checking something in my sig – was just a test post.

Interesting you guys find it that amusing.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 8, 2011 4:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

it was funny because of all the things you could have typed, you chose a slightly scornful sounding ‘hm..’ as your only post for the day, then disappeared.

why not just say ‘testing’?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure last year the Leafs failures on the PP were widely quoted as a reason why Wilson should be fired… I assume that means this year his success is an excuse to give him a contract extension?

Hmmmm… they brought in a new assistant who runs the PP… but yes, the narrative is Wilson deserves an extension for one aspect of special teams play. ???

All hockey all the time at The Globe and Mail

by James Mirtle on Dec 8, 2011 6:46 PM EST reply actions  

I think this is Mirtle agreeing with me. But he’s clearly stupid since he’s a member of the MSM, right?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 8, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

2 things.

1. I guess I should have used the sarcasm font. I don’t think Wilson deserves an extension for the good special teams any more than I thought he should have been fired last year for the crap special teams. As I stated IN the posting, he isn’t coaching them, so he isn’t the cause of their failure OR their success.

2. I don’t think James is stupid, and I’m sure he’s aware of that. I also don’t remember calling the MSM stupid anywhere in this posting. I discussed narratives in the writing that gets peddled by the press, and I also mentioned MYSELF as an example.

3. I’m thinking you may be lacking for places to argue with me so it seems like you’re trying to get it all in on this one posting… e-mail me if you’re hard up or something.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 9, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I just find it so incredibly ironic that an otherwise good post that seems to be railing against partially imaginary narratives is filled with it’s own partially untrue narrative (that the MSM aren’t covering the Leafs well, or that they have an agenda to push).

the condescension towards the MSM is implied, and is a frequent theme around PPP. I understand the contrarian attitude, but I just don’t see the issues that you seemed to have had here.

apparently my critque was overkill? but I’m not sure when that suddenly became a bad thing. Maybe about the same time you joined twitter?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Dec 9, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Right – and that’s why he doesn’t deserve to be fired for one aspect of special teams play.

(am I agreeing with Burtch? Why, it appears I am)

by DrExcitement on Dec 8, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice article Burtch. If you ever plan on giving a lecture on advanced statistics, let me know. I am willing to pay $8 dollars. No more no less. And I might attend drunk.

When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.

by SPERO on Dec 8, 2011 6:59 PM EST reply actions  

VRN vs. Burtch?

NERD FIGHT!!

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Dec 8, 2011 9:15 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

You probably missed the Burtch vs Johnson (hockey analysis), which Skinny linked in the FTB as nerd fight!!!!!!!!!!

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Dec 8, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

true story

before I wrote here, I wrote at Johnson’s hockey analysis site.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Dec 9, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I know

I actually followed you over. I had been to PPP a few times, but never became a regular until you came over. Before that, your site was my main Leafs site.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Dec 9, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

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