Everybody Hates Toronto
by PPP on Feb 3, 2011 11:00 AM EST
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PrintIt's no secret that everyone in the world hates the Maple Leafs. Most of the time Leafs fans hate the team. Let's not even get into the general hate for Toronto that is mostly irrational and shrill and comes from a country that usually focuses it's Napoleonic Complex on the United States. We've talked about this on our podcast before but Toronto is the Centre of the Media Universe. The end result is that locals aren't as heavily represented in the media. While other cities like Boston and Montreal have ridiculously homerish local media, ours generally mocks us for being good fans and mostly looks for the worst angle on stories. And that's without even mentioning the media in every other NHL market that focuses on the Leafs first and their team second (looking at you Ottawa).
I probably wasn't alone in cringing when I saw that a CBC/NHLPA poll had the Leafs as the fifth least desirable place to play. Then I laughed when I saw the mighty Montreal tied with us. It gave the anti-Leafs one more chance to put the boot in. But I noticed something else among the list of questions: Toronto was listed as part of the most desirable places to play in the NHL but I couldn't find any specifics. I was curious so I did what any intrepid reporter would do: I e-mailed the NHLPA and asked. Andrew Wolfe, in the Communications department, gave me a quick reply:
The Leafs received 3.8% of the vote to finish 10th in that category.
What does that mean? Well, using a little bit of math, it means of the 318 players polled, roughly 16 players said Toronto was the least desirable place to play (5%) and 12 players said it was the most desirable place to play (3.8%) . What a massive gap. And that's with a team that's missed the playoffs every year since the lockout, has fans throwing waffles at the team, has the league's most hated coach (what a shock that two known hardasses led that question by the way), and has a media that can be pretty oppressive at the best of times. Not bad. Mention that to chuckleheads the next time they bring up this poll.
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The difference in media tone between Toronto and the Leafs and Boston and the Red Sox is absurd.
I love listening to Jerry Remy and Don Orsillo as they profess their undying love for the Boston Red Sox 162+ nights a year.
Listening to the Leafs on the Pittsburgh radio feed in October I said to myself “Why are these guys not telling me how bad the Leafs are? Oh they’re the other team’s announcers.”
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not sure the homerish media extends to hockey in Boston (NESN broadcasts aside). Shaughnessy and Dupont at the Globe seem to get their giggles trying to railroad players out of town w/ negative press.
I had the misfortune of watching a Boston feed for one game, they are definitely homers, in the sense that they like the team they are covering.
Be a Positive Pete not a Negative Nancy!
by theninjagreg on Feb 3, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
NESN most certainly tells them to. Brickley is a really good color guy who is pretty objective, especially when he gets on Versus.
Of course because he covers the Bruins he knows more about them so he might seem like a homer.
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by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Brickley is a really good color guy who is pretty objective, especially when he gets on Versus.
ppppppppppfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt- er , excuse me. No no, go on.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
hate hate hate all you want, he’s good
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
But really it’s Jack Edwards that fuckin’ owns and should broadcast every hockey game.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In fact I should move my season ticket seats so I’m closer to him and can hear him go nuts more often.
Jack 
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
i don't follow much Boston press
for obvious reasons, but what I have seen over the last 10 years has almost without fail demonized any player that chooses to leave the Sox.
Every new acquisition gets hailed as part of Theo’s master plan, and even person who leaves is either a savvy dumping by the org, or he’s some greedy guy who’s “not buying in”
That’s what it seems like to an outsider anyway
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
The problem with fawning over every player is that you need to control backlash when you’re trading away a fan favorite. Fortunately, thanks to the incredible pull the Sox and Bruins have with the Globe and NESN, it’s quite easy to do. The best predictor of a trade I’ve ever seen is that when the Boston Media has ragged on a player three or more times in the last month, they’re on their way out. (“Manny being Manny” – when is it too much?)
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
That makes more sense when your team wins a lot.
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I think this has little to do with the media’s hate-on for the leafs, but their complete lack of understanding of statistics. Nice pick up!
Doubtful
They know exactly what they’re writing when they post the stats like that.
Leafs love = lots of hits.
Leafs hate = 10x as many hits.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 3, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome
Thanks for joining.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
so I did what any intrepid reporter would do
What is this? 1928? Do you run around with a fedora and a little sign that says “press”, chewing on a cigar?
Modern journalists don’t do actual journalism. They just get fed press releases or spout controversial opinions. Get with the times.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Feb 3, 2011 11:29 AM EST reply actions
PPP:
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Feb 3, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
PPP
posting his “blog”
:
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Feb 3, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is one dapper fellow.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Do you run around with a fedora and a little sign that says "press", chewing on a cigar?
Yes, actually.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Feb 3, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just wondering- do your laptops make that typewriter “ring” sound when you go to a new line when updating something? Because that would be totally awesome.
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Feb 3, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
roughly 16 players said Toronto was the least desirable place to play (5%)
How many players has Burke shipped out again? I think we could be making a mountain out of a molehill if those players were the Jason Blakes, Vesa Toskala’s, and Lee Stempniak’s of the league.
I’m doubtful it was Toskala, no way the NHLPA would be able to find him working as a Wal-Mart greeter in Utsjoki.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
I think he got let go from that Wal-Mart gig. People kept coming into the store and he wasn’t able to stop any of them to greet them.
President of the Emotional Hedging club.
by Oafijev on Feb 3, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 19 recs
His first employee review said his left hand was really slow, he was waving after they’d gotten by him.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
by mf37 on Feb 3, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
There’s got to be at least 16 former Leafs poking around the league who have axes to grind or at least feel like dumping on their old team right?
Steen, Blake, Stajan, Mayers, Carlo, McCabe, Tlusty, Stralman, Kubina, Boyes, Rask, White, Hagman, Williams….. that’s 14 who else am I missing?
Certified Grabbo Lover
duh
Raycroft, Wellwood, Wozniewski. That’s 17 disgruntled former Leafs right there.
Certified Grabbo Lover
Rask has said he doesn’t hate the Leafs. Did he actually ever play for you guys? I thought he was traded as a prospect.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Side note: how you loving Shaq rocking the Bruins gear?
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 3, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Considering Shaq signing with the Celtics was bigger news for me than Championship 17…
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Nick nack Shaq Attack
Give a dog a bone
Rhyming is like hooping
I’m already a legend
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I’m like spielburg – get jur ass (k)ic(ked) in the park
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I know you guys have a lot of player turnover, but surely other teams have former players lurking around the league who took part in this survey?
Dismissing the results as simply the actions of former Leafs would be akin to saying that the 12 players who voted for the Leafs as most desirable should be discounted as being only the guys currently on the team with fat contracts.
If Steen, Blake et al are the guys with axes to grind, then maybe only Komisarek, Lebda, et al voted the Leafs as desirable.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 3, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
And a lot of it could have been second hand. Not much weight should be given to this poll. Same way that everyone will buy season tickets for the new expansion team until it’s time to pony up the dough.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Feb 7, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
lets face it. hockey players also aren’t the smartest people. some of them may be confusing “toronto” with “a team coached by Ron Wilson” considering players also apparently don’t like Wilson very much (at least more than 16 of them don’t).
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Feb 3, 2011 11:40 AM EST reply actions
Also a factor.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Let the hate make you stronger. Swim in it, absorb it, be patient and still, and unleash it back when the time calls (when the Leafs are a decent team again).
BS
Bah. When they are a decent team the media will shift to the reasons the Leafs blew their chance at the Stanley cup like a bunch of chokers.
Wait, why are we talking about Ottawa in a Leafs thread?
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
*off topic rant
why does ottawa even have a team, move it to winnipeg ffs.
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Certified Phil Kessel Lover
by Future_considerations on Feb 3, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Slightly more off topic.
The Sens marketing department called last nights match between Detroit and Ottawa “An original 6 matchup”
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 3, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
pitiful..
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by Future_considerations on Feb 3, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
This is even funnier, because it’s not like they’re trying to stretch it to “Original 7” – it suggests that they’re cutting one of the real Original 6 teams out.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
weird eh? I have this feeling if asked, their marketing department would say “Well, Detroit is an original 6 team.” Or some nonesense trying to justify their price structure for tickets.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 3, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
To their credit, Ottawa is “Original Four.” To get Ottawa and Detroit together, though, it’s either “Original Ten” or “Original Nine,” depending when you look.
To really capture THIS iteration of the Sens, it’s an “Original Twenty-Four” matchup.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Right, it’s a matchup against an Original 6 team.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Right, but you don’t have to listen to Ottawa fans claim their team has been around since the inception of the NHL
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 3, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Well, we have an Original 6 matchup coming up tonight against the Hurricanes. In fact, tonight’s game will break the record (previously set on Tuesday) for “Most Original 6 Matchups in a row, by a franchise” (if I’m looking it up right on Wikipedia).
President of the Emotional Hedging club.
The Sens marketing dept. isn’t quite lying, but it comes off as sounding silly.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 3, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
They’re lying.
“Original Six Matchup” implies that both teams were part of the “Original Six,” just like “an old Norris Division matchup” implies that both teams were part of the Norris.
Toronto-Calgary isn’t “an old Norris Division matchup.”
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
Well good. Because I initially thought the same thing. “That’s not an original 6 match-up at all”
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 3, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Right. Ottawa v Detroit is an original six opponent, not an original six matchup.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
focuses on the Leafs first and their team second (looking at you Ottawa)
I love you guys. You can keep a straight face when calling out Ottawa for being too focused on other markets at the same time as you litter every thread on PPP with references to the Sens.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 3, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Just by sheer volume there’s bound to be lots of references to plenty of teams. The ones that get referenced the most right now? Dallas and San Jose.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Feb 7, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
It’s kind of like looking at Lenny Wilkens’ career as an NBA coach. You can look only at his losses and say he lost the most games in NBA history, or you can look just at his wins and say he’s won more games than anybody in NBA history.
You’re right on both accounts, but it’s misleading to focus on either statistic by itself.
Right, just like how everyone got on Cujo 2 years ago for breaking the all-time loss record yet he also has the 4th most wins and 5th most games played as a goalie.
Certified Grabbo Lover
Mostly I’m annoyed because Gump Worsley is a better name.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck Eric staal, and everyone in his family. Thats all.
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Certified Phil Kessel Lover
by Future_considerations on Feb 3, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
poor kid
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Certified Phil Kessel Lover
by Future_considerations on Feb 3, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Take it up with the sensationalist Toronto Sports Media.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
See the story about the drunk guy accosting James Reimer in Real Sports on Tuesday night?
That was me.
by Bobby Paradise on Feb 3, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Did you tell him to save himself for next year? If not, consider it next time.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure I was unintelligible. Hope he didn’t get that out of it, though…
by Bobby Paradise on Feb 3, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
How is Boston going to pick the worst-tattooed player available in the draft if the Devils already have already snatched him up?
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Simple. Grab some useless junior wannabe and tattoo his name on his arm then draft him, like, 16th overall [with the Leafs pick ;) ] when he really is more of a 6th rounder on a good day.
by Bobby Paradise on Feb 3, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
That would be tampering.
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: Year in Review: Your 2010 Boston Bruins. The Good, the Bad, the Loss to Philly (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Feb 3, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Only if the name is also in a scroll.
Follow me on twitter (@GRBabyEater) to help boost my ego!
by Gary Roberts: Baby Eater on Feb 3, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Oops. Forgot that with playoff teams standings no longer matter. I obviously meant 30th.
by Bobby Paradise on Feb 3, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
don't agree that Toronto media hard on the team
In general the Toronto media are kind to the Leafs. For example, who is a bigger homer than Jim Bowen? Damian Cox has almost turned into an apologist for Brian Burke. Yes there is criticism but that happens when you lose all the time. The problem might be that Toronto goes around telling everyone in the hockey world that we are the #1 market for hockey. Now that’s annoying.
Joseph Desjardins
http://www.hockeyrants.ca
you just used Damien Cox in the “pro leafs” category
argument is judged invalid
please resubmit
Rule #20
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 3, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
why’s that annoying, someone has to be #1? Just like phil was last..
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by Future_considerations on Feb 3, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
The problem might be that Toronto goes around telling everyone in the hockey world that we are the #1 market for hockey. Now that’s annoying.
Who is the #1 market for hockey?
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
The only other city with a legitimate claim is Montreal, except Toronto’s population dwarfs them, so….
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I was thinking the same thing. I’m not sure there’s another market with the same history, solid attendance, TV ratings, earnings, value, media base, or just plain size.
Would love to hear arguments for other markets being top dog or how one might even quantify it.
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
Welcome
Thanks for joining. Joe Bowen does the team’s regional broadcasts. He’s like Jack Edwards. He’s meant to be a homer.
Damien Cox has definitely turned into a Brian Burke apologist but I assume you read him before Burke arrived and know that that is a massive u-turn.
As for the rest, the team is shit but the coverage still takes it’s fair shot of cheap shots.
Toronto is the # 1 market for hockey. They make the most money, have the most fans, draw the most viewers. They aren’t the top team in hockey but that’s not what is said anyway.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Feb 3, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Damien Cox has definitely turned into a Brian Burke apologist but I assume you read him before Burke arrived and know that that is a massive u-turn.
Agreed. massive U- turn. I think he’s actually scared of Burke.
The biggest problem is the cheap shots the media takes at Leafs fans.
BS
by MapleLeafMole on Feb 3, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
The impression I get (or the impression Cox has cultivated anyway) is that Burke chose Damien Cox as his go-to media guy, and phones him first when he wants something to get out. Being the GM’s mouthpiece is extremely valuable, and I imagine Cox is being extremely careful not to piss Burke off.
To be fair to Damien Cox, he used to cover the Pat Quinn Leafs with much more sympathy. He’s a good writer, just arrogant and getting stale.
The Flying V was offside every time.
Yes
That is exactly it. He is getting scoops from Burke and he is repaying him with his coverage.
I didn’t read him as much during the Quinn years but he hates Cliff Fletcher.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Feb 3, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure when that happened because he loved Fletcher at the outset.
Leaf, the universe and everything.
Now in year 44 of the 42-year saga.
You could cut the animosity with a knife at Fletcher’s first interview back.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Feb 3, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
By the end of the JFJ era Cox had become deeply negative and critical to the point of bitterness. I think Cox made a conscious decision with the arrival of Burke to maintain a positive tone when discussing the Leafs. He is giving Burke his 5 years and is withholding judgement.
Joseph Desjardins
http://www.hockeyrants.ca
by hockeyrants.ca on Feb 4, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
If you go by sellouts, attendance (as % of capacity), revenue, ratings, demand for tickets/merchandise (things that would define market size), Toronto is #1. By a mile.
Last year a 29th-place TOR team averaged just over 1.7mm viewers per game. A MTL team that went to the ECF averaged over 600,000 LESS (with their playoff game bump factored in). Ottawa? Worst viewership (just over 230K per game) of any Canadian professional sports franchise other than the Raptors and Toronto FC.
DamiEn Cox is a Leafs homer? Does he know this, because his writing and Twittering aren’t aware of it. Someone should send him a memo.
The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.
by torleafsfan29 on Feb 3, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the TV stats, the difference between Montreal and Toronto is both surprising and quite telling.
The Flying V was offside every time.
I wonder if it includes RDS, who are the primary carrier for the Habs?
Bitter Leaf Fan: Skepticism, not cynicism.
Agreed. I think if you only count English-speaking fanbase, Montreal’s viewership would be much lower, but if you add the Francophones who watch RDS, it would be up there with Toronto.
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Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 4, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
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