Leave Toronto & Watch Your Production Drop
by somny on Apr 5, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
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PrintEditor's Note: Somny takes a look at a new phenomenon: Leafs players leaving and not becoming amazing. What a world! It's a good update, without a comment on coaching, on this MLHS piece.
Remember how it always seemed like the players Toronto traded away went on to become better than they ever were as Maple Leafs. Well, that appears to have changed during Brian Burke's reign as GM of the blue & white. I have put together a fairly basic list of the bigger names Burke has sent packing in the last couple years and there is an alarming trend. They all produce fewer points per game after leaving Toronto. The only exception to this rule is Lee Stempniak (Fuck Lee Stemniak) whose PPG rates are skewed by his prolific 18 game stretch at the end of last season immediately after being traded. Follow the jump to view the list and stats
Numbers for Kabby, Steeg and Beauch are from this season only (PPG with their new team compared to PPG with Toronto). For the others, I took cumulative GP and PT totals with their new teams this season and following their trade last season and compared those numbers to their most recent 2 seasons as Leafs.
Tomas Kaberle BOS
GP 21
G 1
A 7
PTS 8
PPG with TOR: 0.66
PPG with BOS: 0.38
Kris Versteeg PHI
GP 24
G 6
A 2
PTS 8
PPG with TOR: 0.66
PPG with PHI: 0.33
Francois Beauchemin ANA
GP 24
G 2
A 2
PT 4
PPG with TOR: 0.22
PPG with ANA: 0.17
Matt Stajan CGY
GP 101
G 9
A 38
PTS 47
PPG: 0.46
Most recent 2 seasons with Leafs: 131GP, 96 PTS = 0.73 PPG
Niklas Hagman CGY
GP 98
G 16
A 22
PTS 38
PPG: 0.39
With Leafs: 120GP, 86PTS = 0.71 PPG
Jason Blake ANA
GP 99
G 21
A 23
PTS 44
PPG 0.44
Most recent 2 seasons with Leafs: 134GP, 89PTS = 0.66 PPG
Ian White CGY, CAR, SJ
GP 102
G 6
A 30
PTS 36
PPG 0.35
Most recent 2 seasons with Leafs: 127GP, 52PTS = 0.41 PPG
Lee Stempniak PHO
GP 97
G 32
A 22
PTS 54
PPG 0.56
With Leafs: 123GP, 61PTS = 0.5 PPG
0.45 PPG with PHO this season (subtracting his outlier 18 game stretch last season)
Pavel Kubina ATL/TB
GP 152
G 9
A 51
PTS 60
PPG 0.39
Most recent 2 seasons with Leafs: 154GP, 80PTS = 0.52 PPG
Alexei Ponikarovsky PIT/LA
GP 74
G 7
A 17
PTS 24
PPG 0.32
Most recent 2 seasons with Leafs: 143GP, 102PTS = 0.71 PPG
Nik Antropov NYR/ATL
GP 166
G 46
A 72
PTS 118
PPG 0.71
Most recent 2 seasons with Leafs: 135GP, 102PTS = 0.76 PPG
I feel like I am missing a player or two traded away during Burke's tenure. Feel free to add anyone I may have overlooked. I intentionally skipped over names like Toskala and Mayers because they just don't really matter anymore, do they?
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
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You definitely should have included Toskala, he went from 0.875 or whatever it was to “unemployed”.
And the former Leaf in that picture was so sweet (his name escapes me), when he shook Dion’s hand you could hear him say “hell of a jersey you’ve got there young man”.
Twitter me!
Howie Meeker
Who I was absolutely convinced was dead. Good to see him so hearty and hale.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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0ooooo
she is soooo sexy.
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
I’m going to assume you’re actually from Philidelphia, so I will forgive that comment. We take Hazel very seriously up here in Ontario. She is the Canadian equivalent of Chuck Norris — pure, unadulterated awesome.
Antropov has had injury problems this year (shocking!) but last year when he was healthy he put up good numbers.
by Draglikepull on Apr 5, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Ian White’s down turn can be explained by him losing 3 min/g of ice time upon arriving in Calgary. Guys like Blake, Hagman and Stajan had pretty much the same amount of ice time upon being traded, as does Kaberle. Versteeg and Beauch have lost some ice time, but Versteeg hasn’t lost enough to justify his PPG dropping by 50%, while I would attribute Beauch’s to less PP time in Anaheim.
Lee Stempniak is just an ass hole. Somehow managed to go on a ridiculous streak, despite having his minutes dropped upon arriving in Phoenix.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
You’re missing Jamal Mayers, Pavel Kubina, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Nik Hagman, Dominic Moore, Anton Stralman, and Viktor Stalberg. I think that’s the rest of ’em.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Antropov, Ponikarovsky, Moore, and some lesserlings such as Stalberg, Tlusty, Lundmark
You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless. You have to hope even harder, cover your ears, and go 'blah blah blah blah blah!'
I forgot Lundmark played for this team. Warm body.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Apr 5, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Stalberg's
production hasn’t really declined from a ppg perspective.
He’s gone from 0.35 ppg to 0.31 ppg but his ice time has dropped from 14:37 a night to 10:44… that’s huge.
His pts/60 has gone from 1.44 last year to 1.74 this year… so I’d say he’s actually improved.
Pts/60 is probably a more accurate reflection of the player than ppg.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Sundin
…and his half season with the Canucks.. although he didn’t get traded….
This phenomenon is awesome.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Apr 5, 2011 10:57 AM EDT reply actions
I wonder how much of this is due to Wilson’s coaching.
I know we harp on the guy a lot, but we can give him some credit I think?
-"I'm not drinking and driving, I'm driving while I'm drinking....Right boys!?"
-"... a guy wins a game and we're ready to build a statue for him." -Ron Wilson on James Reimer, Jan 3, 2011
-"Let the Wookie win"
I’d be curious to know if these players TOI has decreased significantly since leaving.
Obviously I’m too lazy to find this stuff out for myself.
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
I think what we need is the counter-stat of PPG production of players who came to the Leafs under Burke. If it is an inverse relationship, we’re on to something.
I'd just like to take a minute to say...
Fuck Lee Stempniak.
Okay, everybody please carry on with productive analysis.
by thejohnkeating on Apr 5, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Off the top of my head you missed
(though most are not particularly noticeable)
Strahlman
Stalberg
Mayer
Moore
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
No love for AHL superstar Garnett Exelby?
You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless. You have to hope even harder, cover your ears, and go 'blah blah blah blah blah!'
Excepting Stempniak
Are the examples of the opposite effect?
Be a Positive Pete not a Negative Nancy!
What do you mean of the opposite effect – players with better performance traded to Toronto?
Better
Lupul
Macarthur
Grabbo
Same/Worse
Kessel
Komisarek
Lebda
Phaneuf
Sjorstrom
Lupul – Thats because he had a Nearly Career Ending Injury so his numbers were down in Anaheim but if you look at his numbers with his first tenure with Anaheim and with Philadelphia they were high.
Grabbo – totally agree – Montreal must feel like FOOLS like they did with the John LeClair and the way Detroit feels about Leino when both came to Philadelphia.
Macarthur – I agree – numbers are better in Toronto from what I hear and see.
AS FAR AS VERSTEEG – I am awaiting next season if he is with Philadelphia to see how that plays out (pretty much giving him a Mulligan this year)
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
Honestly, whats up with Versteeg?
Wasnt he getting playing time with Richards?
I mean, I dont really like seeing former Leafs become superstars on other teams (which, as this post proves, hasnt happened in a while), but I kinda feel bad for him…
& I never wouldve thought his production would drop to half of what it was here.
Captain Dion Phaneuf - official puck-getter of the Leafs since /11...
Home Run Kings are back!! - 6 & counting..
Richards has not been playing well (Spotty on the scoresheet) so .. he is slumping on a line with Richards who is also slumping…
FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! www.naawayland.com Robert Wilson - I JUST GOT MARRIED !!!!
That shouldn’t necessarily vindicate him…. I’d give him a mulligan if he was say, injured, but because his superstar linemate happens to be not scoring?
You can't give up hope just because it's hopeless. You have to hope even harder, cover your ears, and go 'blah blah blah blah blah!'
I think we all need to realize something about time frames.
Historically you saw guys leave and improve because they went from being lesser lights and role players on GOOD Leaf teams to being top contributors on crappier teams.
Steve Sullivan is a solid example of this. He went from playing around 14 minutes a night for Toronto to playing 18-20 minutes a night for Chicago. He didn’t become a super amazing player over night, he just got more opportunity.
Now we’re witnessing this in reverse… players leave good teams (i.e. Versteeg in Chicago) and then come to Toronto and get MORE opportunity to play at a higher level… or they develop here and play big minutes (i.e. Poni, Antropov, and Stajan) then they go to other teams and they drop off in production.
The only players who have legitimately maintained or improved their production after switching in recent years are the likes of Alex Steen, Carlo Colaiacovo, Stalberg, Harrison, and maybe Stralman? They went from playing minor roles here to big roles elsewhere. Antropov basically went from top line to top line, so his numbers didn’t shift a lot.
That’s what’s largely driving this phenomenon.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Apr 6, 2011 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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