SBN Mock Draft: Leafs Select Zack Phillips
by Chemmy on Jun 21, 2011 10:00 AM EDT
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PrintWith the 25th overall pick in the 2011 SBN NHL Mock Entry draft I'm excited to announce our selection: the Saint John Sea Dogs' Zack Phillips.
| Season | Tm | Age | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- |
| 09-10 | SJ | 17 | 65 | 16 | 28 | 44 | 22 |
| 10-11 | SJ | 18 | 67 | 38 | 57 | 95 | 48 |
Phillips was instrumental in the Sea Dogs' Memorial Cup championship scoring nine goals and adding 15 assists in 24 games between the QMJHL playoffs and the Mem Cup. He's a center that will likely play wing at the NHL level, but his production in the playoffs is a strong indicator of NHL success. Last season the advanced stats community identified a player likely to score based on his postseason production: Jeff Skinner.
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Getzlaf…
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
by TheBurnward on Jun 21, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Not bad not bad
Wouldn’t complain. Not my 1st choice, but hell we’re picking 25th so likely we won’t be getting the best choice.
Seems like a safe pick, if not an overly exciting one.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Works for me, and under this scenario given that both Klefbom and Mayfield are still available, there’s at least a decent shot one of them will still be available at 30, should we so desire.
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that it is exactly that, the safe, boring pick. The kid is slower than desired, but scores well and played prominently on a championship team. Goal scoring isn’t a terrible choice.
AULIE AULIE OXEN FREE!!!1
Follow me I'm Boring!
Devour my Revolution!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 21, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d have taken one of the Dmen (Mayfield or Klefborn). I worry that the Sea Dogs all look better than they are because they play together. But I’m no scout, so I guess I’ll trust the GM Overlord on this one.
Having gone to 20+ games this year I’d say that is true to an extent, I’d be very very surprised if Jurco and Galiev pan out. I have said this before but, Huberdeau only had the season he did because of Phillips. Obviously the Q doesn’t have the advanced statistics to back that up, just my opinion. A lot of the goals I seen Hubadoo score were taps ins from a Zack Phillips effort. He has unreal vision and a lazer wrist shot. I think its a great pick.
"You can't always get what you want, the Rolling Stones song was right"
"The fun comes from getting the 2 points"
Brian Burke
You sure you've got those numbers right for Phillips' post-season?
On the QMJHL site, they show 24 points in 17 games.
On the Mem. Cup site, they show 5 points in 5 games.
Elite Prospects shows both, meaning that Phillips actually had 29 points in 21 games for a 1.38ppg rate in the post-season which is under Skinner’s 1.65ppg from last year.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=122666
sooooo 24 in 17 + 5 in 5 = 29 in 22 but at the end of the first round instead of drafting what, 9th?
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Fun fact
The player who finished just below Phillips in QMJHL playoff scoring? Joel Champagne.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Yeah so who knows. For a 25th pick I’ll take a kid who scored a lot in the postseason and who some scouts are starting to say made Huburdeau look good.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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My only worry is that we’ve had very little success drafting out of the Q…
Stefanovich, Champagne… or our trade for Paradis…
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
THIS IS A BOLD NEW ERA OF LEAFS HOCKEY.
UP NEXT I’M DRAFTING SOMEONE FROM BELLEVILLE.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Jun 21, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
BAN-croft'd!
Let the Wookie win.
Twitter is a thing!
by Kenjamin on Jun 21, 2011 11:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To be fair
The first two are skilled, but didn’t pan out for “other” reasons.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I was hoping for Bettman to announce a trade but..Zack Philips is good.
Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about Canada.
by Future_considerations on Jun 21, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The guys at Copper & Blue tried to trade #1 last year but SBN put the kibosh on it.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Fun-haters
Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about Canada.
by Future_considerations on Jun 21, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
The Mock Drafts are all over the place
I’ve seen Phillips has high as 13th (The Hockey News), 28th (TSN), and not in the Top 30 at the Redline Report.
I think this is going to be a wild draft.
Guys I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the 25th are Nicklas Jensen, Ty Rattie or Matt Puempel
They also said Mika is comparable to both Fisher and Backstrom. Not really sure how.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
Why ouch?
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/allisja02.html
The guy was a career .89 PPG, great hands and vision. Downside was his skating. Concussions fucked up his career
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
JASON ALLISON ALWAYS SUCKED IN TORONTO REMEMBER WHEN HE MISSED THAT PENALTY SHOT
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by Chemmy on Jun 21, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
People are stupid.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Well done.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not having skating is definitely an ‘ouch’ these days. You have to be exceptionally skilled to make up for a lack of speed and skating ability now.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
I dont know how poor of a skater Coutourier is. From last years WJC, he didn’t see that bad
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Jason Allison
was pretty exceptionally skilled.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
They love him at ILWT
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
This is me mock-caring.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 21, 2011 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for letting me know. Clearly this is something we feel is very important which you can tell from the exhaustive effort I put in to the post.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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yeah, it’s nothing against you. but these kinds of things are about as hypothetical as it gets. like when people tell me about trades they pulled off in NHL11.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 21, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, the post is about four sentences long. It’s pretty clear that I’m forced to do this by SBN.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I traded in NHL09 for an Amazon gift card that I used to buy Call of Duty: Black Ops.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Fleecing
"You can't always get what you want, the Rolling Stones song was right"
"The fun comes from getting the 2 points"
Brian Burke
I’d prefer an actual fleece, because CoD leaves me feeling cold.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jun 21, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s good practice for caring about the real draft.
by Leaf in Habland on Jun 21, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Just what we need.
Another forward that can shoot but can’t skate…he can play with Brayden Irwin. Burke drafts the best player available, not for need. Was John Gibson already selected? Whats wrong with choosing the best goalie in the draft?
Whats wrong with choosing the best goalie in the draft?
1) There has been several studies shown that all else equal, you’re better off not picking a goalie in the first round. Especially in this case, where there is no goalie in the top 30 prospects… so that would contradict the “best player available” strategy.
2) I have no idea who John Gibson is.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
You will when burke drafts him.
Futureconsiderations.ca has Gibson going 24th overall. What are you on?
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Bobby Mac has Gibson’s upside as an NHL backup in his list posted last night, and his word is gospel
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I will give up beer if Burke drafts a goalie in the first round
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Well I wouldn’t wanna leave myself without any options at all
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Beer and hope are kinda synonymous for me
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you on?
Yikes, what crawled up your butt.
I’ve also not been to Futureconsiderations.ca
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
But its a site of pure excellence on par with such industry mainstays as HockeyBuzz and HFBoards
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
OK eklund.
Whatever you say. Those people at FC help with the combine…go back to your Zach talk.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Meant to say...
What are you on about. Sorry. Although, whoever came up with Zach as our 25th pick needs to lay off the crack.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah that guy is an idiot.
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No.
Just a crack head. Can’t wait to see where Zach really goes.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
No you’re right it’s as if he has literally no idea about anything.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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If it’s 25th you owe Chemmy a dollar.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s not very responsible. You’re feeding Chemmy’s crack habit!
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jun 21, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well you are an idiot Chem… but this wasn’t a bad pick
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the things I’ve gotten out of blogging is being able to take criticism better. When you’re a teenager your reaction to people telling you you’re stupid is to prove them wrong and now I just don’t give a shit.
Not to sound like Damien Cox but if people don’t like my work it’s not like I care. This isn’t my main job and clearly my writing and site ideas have taken me much farther than I expected when I registered on blogspot to post pictures of Jason Blake fellating the words “I CAN’T HIT THE NET”.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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That gif ruled
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I’m still newer here I don’t think I’ve seen that.
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
who would have thought that a few short years later you would have taken over Pensionplanpuppets.com after killing and burying PPP
I mean he isn’t around anymore so this is my automatic assumption
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Dave Nonis is a busy man.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
His absense is quite noticable.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Touche.
The way I see it, the monster will either be traded or bought out. He is a good goalie but his heart condition will always be a distraction the Leafs won’t need. I can see Rynnas or Scrivens being promoted to back up Reimer because that gives the goalies in the system something to work towards. Typically, the leafs have 5 goalies under contract, 2 with the Leafs, 2 with the Marlies and 1 in the ECHL. Drafting Gibson seems to make sense at 25 because he is the best player in the world who is eligible to be drafted at his position. Statistically, no other player the Leafs could choose at 25 can make that claim.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Historically a goalie is rarely the best player available at 25 in any draft.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what that means.
Sounds good though, so I will say…“C”, fire Ron Wilson. That’s my final answer.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It means drafting a goalie with the 25 pick means we’ll almost assuredly miss out on a better player. It would be stupid. There is no way Gibson becomes the best possible option at that spot.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Statistically, I am the best IT person named Leafer1984 in Toronto. A company should hire me and pay me $100k a year. No other IT person can make that claim
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I dunno...
I know a lot of IT people with the handle Leafer1984. I’ll need to run a comparable analysis of you against them.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I can drag out his stats for you.
Give you enough GVT, corsi ratings, quality of comp., on Gibson to make your eyes glaze over. Being rated #1 at your position by central scouting might carry a bit more weight than your screen name does.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d love that information. Better than “take my word for it”.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam Larsson and RNH are both rated #1 at their position, will they go 1 and 2?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
My point is, just because they are #1 rated at their position it doesn’t mean much if there are 40 players better than them
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
yessssssssss, it’s happening!
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
everything is happening?
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
exactly
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Technically
They do have corsi and qcomp ratings… There’s no reason they can’t.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 5:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Maybe, but neither tells you anything about a goalie’s skill. Goalies have no ability to affect possession (except possibly through rebound control) and all goalies should face a roughly equivalent quality of competition over the course of a whole season.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jun 21, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
GVT is pretty lousy for goalies.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Zone finishes – pretty flat. Except occasionally they’ll start one in the D zone and finish in the neutral zone.
Interestingly, that always seems to happen late in close games – they’re money!
This space for rent...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Jun 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
the monster will be […] bought out
wut? None of our current AHL goalies (Rynnas, Scrivens, Owuya) are ready for NHL time, and Gustavsson only has one year left on his contract. He’ll play to start the season, and if he sucks, then we hope Burke would waive him, loan him to Europe, and he’ll walk UFA. There’s no way he can be bought out after the season starts.
But while Gibson may be the best option, it’s a mistake to draft based on position. Drafting by the best overall player available, historically speaking, produces much better results. Goalies don’t typically come into that conversation before the third round.
Finally, Gibson is 18. He’ll be in junior. Our current depth chart will look quite different when he’s ready to play in the NHL, because we’ll know what Reimer, Rynnas, Scrivens, and Owuya all look like in about 3 years.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
by Bower Power on Jun 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Drafting Gibson seems to make sense at 25 because he is the best player in the world who is eligible to be drafted at his position. Statistically, no other player the Leafs could choose at 25 can make that claim.
I’m not doubting you, but can you back up this claim? I’m actually interested now.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
He can’t. It’s impossible.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Even a ballpark analysis would be interesting. We’re slaggin on him pretty hard (for good reason), but i’d honestly like to see some supporting arguments. We’ve come this far.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Him being the best goalie available still isn’t enough. You’d need to demonstrate why drafting a goalie in the first round makes sense. Which as many have shown, it doesn’t. Draft a forward with high upside. We can sign UFA goalies or draft them in the third round.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the biggest part he is missing is the total value of a player versus everyone else and not just the players value in reference to other players at his position especially in a notably weak class for his position.
For instance if person A) gets 95% in their college level gr12 math class, and person B) gets only 80% in their AP calculus class, does it mean that person A is the better math student?
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=548955
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, be honest
You’re really John Gibson aren’t you?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Jun 21, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Nailed it.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Go to NHL.com
Type in “central scouting final rating” and see for yourself.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
In 2007, the best goalie in the draft was Joel Gistedt and he was selected 36th overall.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Bless you.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want to see First Round Goalies Gone Wrong, check out 2001’s draft.
Pascal Leclaire
Dan Blackburn
Jason Bacshihua
Adam Munro
/sad trombone
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
IIRC, didn’t Dan Blackburn play pretty well.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He was also 18-19
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
and prematurely put into the starter role due to Richter going down.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8475789
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Just for future reference, if you want to post a link post it in the comment section not the title or it doesn’t link properly.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t put a link in the header, people can’t click it
also campbell hasn’t proven jack shit about being a worthy 1st rounder
you know who was taken right after campbell? cam fowler
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t put links in Columbus
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jun 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Well played.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought you could, but only in November?
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jun 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
And yes, that's Jack Campbell.
So?
2010-11 Windsor Spitfires OHL 45 1 2 2447 155 4 0 3.80 24 14 4 1185 0.884
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120975
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
That 0.884 in bold was his save percentage last year.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? Didn’t know that the OHL had become a firewagon hockey league. I thought an average GAA would have been like 2.70.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
Okay 3.80 is still a little high I thought the average was a little higher. That being said those top goalies also so happened to be on the top teams soo
i would much rather have him than cam Fowler
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
40 points in 70 games as a rookie D man\?
ewwwww, give me the goalie!
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been wondering that the whole time.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok well that just says he's the best goalie available
Overall, he’s ranked 37th by TSN, 27th by the Hockey News (lol). Wouldn’t be a terrible pick as a late 1st / early 2nd rounder.
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44972
But Chemmy is on crack for picking the player that TSN had going 28, The Hockey News (lol) HAD GOING 9TH. I don’t get it.
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=44971
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Puck Prospectus at #24.
I just saw an NHL.com mock draft that had Phillips at 16. Boy I’m dumb.
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I guess the point is
That he isn’t a bad player or a bad late 1st/early 2nd round pick, but nowhere has him being claimed before Zack Phillips.
Plus the argument about 1st round picks and goalies, add in that we have 5 in the pipeline currently… i’d rather save a goalie pick for later in the draft.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I knid of have a suspicion that the Leafs aren’t going to bother with drafting goalies for a little while; they’ll just keep plucking NCAA/Euro free agents and getting them into the development system where their own staff are 100% responsible for the coaching.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Exactly
I don’t think Allaire cares where they come from.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
If both the Marks that are projected to go in the 10-15 range are gone I’m pretty sure he’s who the Sabres would take.
Unless its like the hockeywilderness mock draft and Nathan Beaulieu is still available for some strange reason.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Chemmy is on crack for the sole reason that last night he put some crack into a pipe and smoked it. What he wrote afterwards did not influence whether he was on crack or not, as the act of getting on crack would have happened before he wrote this feature.
also his pants are too low and his crack is showing
and he is sitting on said crack
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
For Christmas, we should buy him a belt.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true at #1. Are you saying Edmonton should draft him there?
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
They do need a goalie.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He is not M.A. Fleury.
Lets not get carried away.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
M.A. Fleury was a stupid #1 pick
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So stupid.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
reimer
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Went in the 2006 NHL draft. Those are goalies from later rounds in the 2003 draft only.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
hater
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That ’06 draft had a lot of 1st round pick goalies, Bernier, Helenius, Varlamov, & Irving
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
5 years later we have one high end prospect and one who showed flashes of a number one
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Lesson of the story: Don’t draft goalies in the 1st round.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
unless he is clearly a better player than the others available.
which is a rare occurrence
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Has that ever happened?
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Cam Ward is the sole compelling case. See above.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
you can make arguments for Rask and Price in 05, even though Kopitar was taken 6 spots after price
I dont see anyone “clearly” better than rask taken after him in the 1st, Oshie maybe
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, Rask is probably the one I was most on the fence about (which makes me happy, since it was a Leafs pick, but unhappy for obvious reasons). It’s also why I specified “compelling argument” above. Given the two, I’d probably take Kopitar over Price, but I could see an argument going either way.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
hindsight is also a hell of a thing so I think you have to pick within one or 2 when its that high up as at the time Kopitar obviously wasn’t a top 5 pick…
yeah, there is a reason Kopitar dropped to 11
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The only times is when someone is inexplicably reached for, or inexplicably drops (see Fowler, Cam) that you can question it
I disagree. Price, Rask, and Ward sit as the only goalies who we’ve even been able to have a discussion about when it comes to “was this goalie better than the players taken after him?” Out of the almost 20 goalies taken in the first over 7 years.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
I meant in general. For instance I can’t call out teams for not drafting Datsyuk in the top 5 of his draft year despite him (I’m assuming) being the best player from that draft. You can’t drop 10+ spots and pick someone like Lucic who went 50th overall to replace a guy who went in the 1st round and say they messed up by not taking ____.
Sure, that’s why I capped it at “better players in the first round.” Those guys all got talked about, just like kids are this year. There’s a better player within about 7 picks for everyone.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Okay, but at the same time I’m skeptical about going back still. For instance if say Sean Coutourier goes #6 to Ottawa and does nothing for his career, and Mark McNeil goes 13th to Calgary and becomes an allstar, some people 10 years from now will look back and think “McNeill was within 7 picks so it should’ve been close and they should’ve gone with McNeill” even though right now no one would even think about doing that (from what we’ve heard).
I get what you’re saying, but we’re talking about draft philosophy. You’re probably better off taking a skater and gambling than you are grabbing a goaltender that high, given how frequently they fail. It’s a really, really think line between Carey Price and Al Montoya or Brent Kahn.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
The fairest comparison for “what if we drafted an X instead of (bust)?” is next player drafted that meets the criteria.
Like for example “First defenseman drafted 12-18” compared to “first forward drafted 12-18” is a fun comparison.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
I agree with the draft philosophy that a skater is worth more than a goalie, but if you factor that into the equation and the goalie STILL has more projectable value you have to take the goalie…
The issue lies within that projecting the value of a goalie has a very high margin of error compared to skaters.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
Sabres took the scenic route, but they still MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS!!!1
Man I wish we had a shot at McNeil, i’ve heard nothing but good things about him.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, there was a lot of weight put into Kopitar’s WJC performance. Though at 18 he put up 49 in 30 on his U20 SEL team. The only other player between Kopitar and Price would’ve been Setoguchi (and Marc Staal was right after Kopitar), so if he can sustain anything close to last year’s SVP, Price may qualify as best player available at the time, given that MTL didn’t have psychic powers.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Just read your write up after I posted that
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
What the fuck would we even do with a goalie?
He’d have to go back to the OHL (or wherever) next season and then what? Assuming Gustavsson is gone for being bad where does this kid play?
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
ECHL!
Both Bill Gates and Will Smith Reimer and Scrivens played there, and they’re millionaires!
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It’d look like this:
2011-12: Reimer/Gustavsson, Scrivens/Rynnas, Owuya (ECHL), Kid (OHL)
2012-13: Reimer/Scrivens, Rynnas/Owuya, Kid (ECHL or overage OHL)
2013-14: Reimer/Rynnas, Owuya/Kid
Assuming that Scrivens and Gustavsson fail, and Reimer does not. We’d have to tear through goalies just to get that kid out of the ECHL. If we do take a goalie, it needs to be low investment (4th round or later), but I’d be happier just using all our picks on forwards and D men, and then going a bit goalie-happy next year (though this may be a deep goalie draft)
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
No he wasn’t. He was the top ranked player in the world at his position. It was a great pick.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Taking one of the top ranked players 1st and having it work out doesn’t really make it a great pick. You’re supposed to do well with that pick. Getting Halak in the 7th (?) round is a great pick because you got a pretty good goalie in a round where most skaters don’t ever see an NHL training camp.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
Whoa PPP emerges from the shadows!
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jun 21, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
to defend the guild of goalies!
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 21, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
PPP is a forward though
our enigmatic 1C who vanishes for long stretches of time
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
PPP is colombian, not russian
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Al Montoya…
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The goalie? He is of cuban descent
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
You’re back!
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 21, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Of the top 20 goalies this year based on GAA, 7 were drafted in the 1st round, 9 were drafted in the 7th round or later (or not drafted at all).
Conversly, 4 of the top 20 scorers were not drafted in the 1st round, and St Louis went undrafted because of his size. And if Crosby didn’t get hurt, there would have been only 3 of the top 20.
You can get good goaltending from any spot in the draft and you are less likely to get a scoring forward later in the draft.
Clearly it’s a better idea to draft a forward early on than a goalie unless you believe you’re getting a franchise goalie like Luongo, Price or Brodeur.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
Better than taking John Gibson…
If Phillips had better skating he’d be in the top 10 (Or so I’ve been told)
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say it’s right in line with most mock draft expectations of where he’ll fall… sounds like you have something personal against the guy. Is it just the footspeed or is it something else?
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Leafs game is built around speed.
Where does Zach fit into our line-up?
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Leafs game is built around speed.
Where does Zach fit into our line-up?
Hold on, what?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Where does a projected back up goalie fit into our lineup?
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Below Reimer, Gustavsson, Rynnas, Scrivens, Owuya, Francois Allaire, me, and Carlton the Bear.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Jun 21, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty ballsy putting yourself ahead of Carlton on the depth chart.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Get the pads out I’ll fucking dazzle you.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
.
I don’t mean my skills will stun you I mean I’ll literally bedazzle your jean jacket while making saves, like so:
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Gibson is no back-up.
We will see in a few short days. If I’m wrong, I will be back and you guys can take your shots at me then.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Doesn’t matter where he’s drafted. We won’t know for a few years whether he’s a starter or no.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
If Burke drafts Gibson 25th then...
I think we can put the “back-up” thing to rest.
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really. How many 1st round goalies never become starters? I’m sure there are a few.
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
"TORONTO SELECTS G ERIC FICHAUD"
My degree is worthless
by Godd Till on Jun 21, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
http://gospelofhockey.blogspot.com/2009/06/for-those-that-havent-read-kents-old.html
Here’s a list of 1st round goalies….. Fichaud included.
"You can't always get what you want, the Rolling Stones song was right"
"The fun comes from getting the 2 points"
Brian Burke
Thanks… and I’m sure there are even more in the 2000’s as well
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Patrick Desrochers, another beauty
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Brian Finley, Maxime Ouellete, Jason Bacashihua, see above, etc, etc, etc, etc…
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Outstanding. I’ve seen them twice in the last few yrs, they are one of my favourites.
My degree is worthless
Just saw em on Friday. My hands down fav.
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s one of my favs qualifying for that list, for some reason
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually am a car racing fan, so that makes sense
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a “Qualifying” joke.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Its weird cause he’s a huge bust as a 1st round pick but he’s not a complete NHL bust yet, as he’s only 25 and actually played decent last year. If he was a undrafted UFA or a low round pick, you’d think he was coming along nicely (if a bit late).
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m willing to be general here.
$500 that Toronto selects a forward at 25 instead of a goaltender. If it’s a defenseman we’ll call it a push.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Jun 21, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Take the bet if I’m wrong about Gibson. Do it. What do you have to lose?
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Oh snap, and it’s on.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
If I’m a crackhead then my position is unreasonable enough that 1:1 seems appropriate and he’s not going to pay anyways.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Free money on the table because I’m an idiot. Go. Get it.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Hey weird I left my desk for a while and was sure I’d come back to you instantly accepting my generous offer of free money. Seems like you left.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Replying in case you missed this.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Man it got quiet in here I feel like somebody left.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Maybe his dad got him traded to a different blog.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jun 21, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 21 recs
/slow clap.
AULIE AULIE OXEN FREE!!!1
Follow me I'm Boring!
Devour my Revolution!
by blindfolded tank driver on Jun 21, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow…
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Spectacular.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
We tried beating some logic into his head and he got a concussion.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Jun 21, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
COmment of the year. I’m reccing it
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
We can?
Goalies drafted in the first round that never earned starter’s status:
(not including Mark Vinestin, and Thomas McCollum for being drafted within the past 3 years).
Leland Irving, 26th overall by Calgary (0 NHL games)
Marek Schwarz, 17th overall by St. Louis (6 NHL games)
Al Montoya, 6th overall by NY Rangers (26 NHL games)
Hannu Toivonen, 29th overall by Boston (61 NHL games)
Adam Munro, 17th overall by Chicago (17 NHL games)
Jason Bacashihua, 26th overall by Dallas (38 NHL games)
Those are all 2001 or more recent.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
how many in those years did? I’m willing to bet it’s greater than 6. in fact, i’ll just name some off the top of my head:
price
ward
lunqvist
fleury…..
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Lundqvist was the last pick of the draft. Couldn’t have been further from being drafted in the first round.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
by Bower Power on Jun 21, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
oh really? i could have sworn he was a first rounder…..
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
learn something every day.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 21, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
A lottttttttttt of great goalies were drafted late though.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why drafting them in the first round is nonsense. Even the one’s that do pan out don’t end up being “the best player available” in hindsight.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 21, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
205. Goalies drafted in the first round:
2000: Rick DiPietro (1), Brent Kahn (9)
2001: Pascal Leclaire (8), Dan Blackburn (10), Jason Bacashihua (26), Adam Munro (29)
2002: Kari Lehtonen (2), Cam Ward (25), Hannu Toivonen (29)
2003: Marc-Andre Fleury (1)
2004: Al Montoya (6), Devan Dubnyk (14), Marek Schwarz (17), Cory Schneider (26)
2005: Carey Price (5), Tuukka Rask (21),
2006: Jonathon Bernier (11), Riku Helenius (15), Semyon Varlamov (23)
2007: None.
2008: Chet Pickard (18), Thomas McCollum (30)
2009: None.
2010: Jack Campbell (11), Mark Vistentin (27)
Excluding the last three years, of the 19 goalies drafted in the first round, 11 are still in the NHL today (I didn’t count Montoya), 6 are starters (didn’t count Varlamov), and 7 were absolutely never heard from again.
If you go down the list and ask “Was there a better player than this goalie still available?” Across the board, the answer is yes, with just a handful of exceptions.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
2000: Hainsey (13)
2001: Tuomo Ruutu (9)
2002: Jay Bouwmeester (3), Ward was BPA
2003: Eric Staal (2)
2004: Drew Stafford (13), Mike Green (29)
2005: Anze Kopitar (11), TJ Oshie (24)
2006: Chris Stewart (18), Patrik Berglund (25)*
2008: Eberle (22)
*2006: I missed Leland Irving, but Nick Foligno was still on the board – a lousy player to be sure, but still higher impact Irving.
**2008: McCollum was last pick of the first round, so there wasn’t a better player in the first round by default. However, Jake Allen and Jacob Markstrom both went early second, and they look to have better upside than McCollum, so enjoy this moment to laugh at the Red Wings.
The only goalie to be taken in the first round since 2000 that didn’t have a better player available somewhere in the first round after him was Cam Ward. Taken 25th overall.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Rated a 6.0 C on HF
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKU-LAAAAAA
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Then again they had Reimer rated as a 6.0 C a couple years ago…
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Goalies are hard to project (moreso than skaters), that’s why so many 1st rounders don’t live up to the billing, and so many drafted later end up being really good.
Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90
What type of pick is appropriate to waste on them then?
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
You don’t. You let other teams draft them, get impatient with their development, and trade for them later.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
As teams become more and more patient with goaltending, this seems like a worse and worse plan. Seems like you’re way less likely to get a Luongo or a Rask trade now. I’d burn a third or later on a goalie.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Though Allen, Markstrom, and Neuvirth were all high seconds, which makes me think I could be persuaded, but not for this Leafs team and in this draft.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
But that third might be a McKegg.
Seriously though, please no goalies early in the draft!
by stevesmith19 on Jun 21, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be against a 2nd rounder on a high prospect goalie… i wouldnt’ prefer it but I’m not going to complain.
1st round should belong to the Fwds and D
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t there a chart made by someone on this site a summer or 2 back that pretty much showed us that drafting a goalie earlier than the 3rd round was a bad idea.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Our 2nd rounder is pretty high this year, i’m hoping (if its not packaged to move up / acquire a roster player) that we’d take more fwds/dmen as our depth isn’t great there… but again the whole “drafting for talent not need”, etc etc
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, how are we supposed to know in a few days if John Gibson is a career backup?
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
We'll know in 20 years.
Then we’ll return to this conversation
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Like, in 20 years we come back to this exact thread and shit-talk him?
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
What, its not like you will have anything better to do
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
<3 you
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yes. Make sure we keep it open for commenting.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt anyone cares if you’re right or wrong, but calling someone a crackhead for expressing a completely hypothetical opinion doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that’d fly around here
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Boy there will be egg on my face if the guy I chose isn’t the Leafs pick.
I literally took a second mortgage out and got 3:1 odds from Vegas that Toronto would select Zack Phillips with the 25th pick overall and posted this story as an absolute courtesy to you so that you could get in on the action.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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You’re kinda funny.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
im sad i missed this
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey if you can choose the top 20 in the right order you can win $100,000.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Pfft if you had any real confidence in the pick you would’ve taken out a loan with the mob.
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought we were selecting best available player, not drafting to fill a need.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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I don't understand
Burke drafts the best player available, not for need. Was John Gibson already selected? Whats wrong with choosing the best goalie in the draft?
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:05 AM EDT reply actions
Leafs game is built around speed. Where does Zach fit into our line-up?
by JasonLindros on Jun 21, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
In 2014 when he joins the AHL/NHL? Who knows?
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Leafs game is built around speed?
Then why did Burke sign Brayden Irwin or Joe Colborne? Neither of them are particularly fast.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
*trade
for Colborne that is.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Colborne has deceptive speed and I think with some work on his footwork he can get his acceleration up. He’s got that awkward tall person stride going on still and needs to tighten it up.
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just saying
he’s not a guy you add to a team built around “speed”… Burke has been going for Size, Speed, Toughness, etc. Basically a whole variety of skill sets.
We don’t have enough highly skilled offensive players, and I don’t think speed is the only thing you base your picks on.
The question isn’t how fast a player is, it’s whether or not they have NHL caliber skating, and if there’s room for consistent improvement to get to that level then it’s not an issue.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
obviously
if you’re choosing between two identical players and one skates better you pick the guy with superior wheels… but that isn’t the ONLY thing I’d be worried about.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear gibson is a fantastic skater, st louis levels
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
he said character too.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Crazy is character, just not sure its the type Burke wants. I can see him taking a look at just how much crazy is too crazy because some crazy is good?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Or Brad Ross /mmmmmmm
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 21, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Who are you again?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jun 21, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
SOmeone I dont care about. Gotcha
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I believe he is a Lindros-he is arguing like he has been concussed a half dozen times, at least.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 21, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
24th to the Red Wings? The Red Wings who will be going forwards with Howard for the forseeable future?
We’re quite deep at goaltending, and taking a goalie in the first round is never a good idea. Every goaltender taken in the first round since the lockout has left at least one higher impact player after him.
If Burke drafts him – especially when some people are calling this a deep goalie draft – I’ll be exceptionally pissed off.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
by Bower Power on Jun 21, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
24th to the Wings makes sense because their goalie prospects don’t look to be NHL quality, and Gibson is going to the University of Michigan so the Wings could keep a very close eye on his development with him being right in their backyard.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Interesting thought. Maybe they’ll take him in the second round.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
by Bower Power on Jun 21, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
We can choose the best goalie in the draft. Somewhere around round four.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
by Bower Power on Jun 21, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
My draft strategy here was essentially shoot for upside. I’m looking for elite players and don’t care if I miss out on sure fire good 2nd liners because I can get them via UFA.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
This late in the first round you might as well swing for the fences.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
You should always swing for the fences. Your only goal in the draft is to swing for the fences. One guy who’s truly elite talent is worth every pick you throw away to get him.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
what do they do with these selections?
are they stockpiled? is this some sort of long term comparison vehicle?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Like
do we keep score somehow? I’m just wondering if there’s any value beyond the fun of it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
The list is given to all GM’s because they know that the ideas of who we should select should fall to fans anyways so it saves them work.
by WizardofNaz on Jun 21, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think just the “fun” of it. I ran NHLe and selected guys who project to score lots of goals in the NHL.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Yeah
skating ability + goal scoring are the primary things I’d look at from a forward perspective.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm modifying the Gibson bet
Clearly the terms have frightened off our pal and so I offer this new bet:
If the Leafs select Gibson at #25 in the draft I will paypal Jason Lindros one hundred US dollars.
If the Leafs do no select Gibson at #25 in the draft Jason Lindros will write two thousand words on why I, Chemmy, am in fact the smartest person alive, a role model to Jason Lindros, and the father figure he’s never had. This will be hand written on lined notebook paper and scanned.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Font size 11.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Jun 21, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
he'll take the bet
and then welch when he loses.
I am now going to spend 1 sentence complaining that the term “welch” is far too similar to the “Welsh”.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
“welsh” is actually the term. apparently it has roots in england, where the welsh were looked at as lower-class / substandard.
Congratulations Tomas!
Well this site doesn’t discriminate against our brothers from Cymru so you take your nationalism outside and shut the front door.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jun 21, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Keep Dr. Strange out of this.
Oh wait, that’s Dormammu.
Never mind then … back to your non-hater ways.
This space for rent...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Jun 21, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
As opposed to staying in here and moping with the Welsh?
I’m outta here.
Follow someone else on Twitter.
by not norm ullman on Jun 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
On behalf of JasonLindros, I’ll accept your terms.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
set to the dark side of the moon!
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jurco
I rather take Tomas Jurco, big, skilled, fast….takes games off tho
we can’t go wrong drafting a Czech/Slovak named Tomas tho! flawless plan
probably part of the “character” Burke looks for.
by Nigel Cadbury on Jun 21, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Regardless
He was already taken IIRC. By OTT at 21 in this mock draft.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
if he is still hanging around in the 2nd, sure, not with one of the firsts
and even then if it came down to drafting a boom or bust pick in the 2nd i want Rask
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 21, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
TSN’s Bob McKenzie and Craig Button have the Leafs picking Rocco Grimaldi at 25 and Stuart Percy at 30.
Bob took Larsson 1st overall. Wonder if that was inspired by Copper N Blue.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=369612
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
SHIT
McGuire, not MacKenzie.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
AND
Relevent addition: McGuire has Zack Phillips going 13th to CGY.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That oughta be an unpopular pick with Jason Lindros
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 21, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
anyone done any research
to see how similar TSN’s mock drafts have been to reality over the past few years?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 21, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah
Plus trades on the floor kind of complicate that a bit.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 21, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus once you get past the first 4-5 picks, it usually starts to depend far more on the individual scouting staff and GM than the consensus picks. Teams don’t all scout the same players or to the same degree, and I’d have to guess that most GMs trust their own staff more than things like Central Scouting.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jun 21, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention, TSN’s mock draft tends to draft for need, as opposed to skill.
For example, picking Larsson over Nugent-Hopkins for the Oilers.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya they sort of have 2 lists
Bob Mckenzie did the “TSN draft ranking” while McGuire/Button did the “Mock draft”
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember last year’s was all over the place.
Kulemin so hot right now, Kulemin.
by PassivelyTruculent on Jun 21, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Two or three years ago, MacKenzie was hitting it out of the park. He sat there and predicted the middle of the first round in order, team by team, and wasn’t wrong once.
This space for rent...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Jun 22, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Please let this happen.
I’m late to the party, I know.
Can it before I drive this truculence through your faceulence and put you in an ambulance.
by Brunswick Bruiser on Jun 21, 2011 7:43 PM EDT reply actions
Seen this guy play about 10 times.
He has impressed me in a new way everytime. This guy reminds me of a Kris Versteeg the way he plays small Gritty, with some flear. I think he would be a great fit, unlike Kris.
My dog has flears
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 21, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No flears.
And the biggest of them all, King Flear.
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 22, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
http://leafsloft.blogspot.com/2011/06/nhl-draft-2011-who-to-pick-part-1.html
Thought this was a really interesting article. It’s not mine but should be included in the FTB tomorrow maybe, it’s a pretty indepth look at what players would fulfill what needs. He goes over 1 player for the first two, middle three and last 2 rounds. Brings up lots of names we never would talk about (the later round guys) definitely worth a look.
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 22, 2011 12:40 AM EDT reply actions
A couple other forwards I would keep my eyes on leading up to the draft are
Shane Prince from the 67’s, Mike Cazzola and overager on the Erie Otters (don’t know if he’s draft eligible), Stefan Noesen good sized winger playing for the Plymouth Whalers, Daniel Catenacci, very speedy center playing in the Soo, Josh Shalla, the overage winger playing for Saginaw, Andrew Fritsch, a winger playing for Owen Sound, Nick Cousins, another center playing in the Soo, Steven Beyers of the Barrie Colts and lastly Seth Griffith of the London Knights.
There are obviously a lot more players, but these guys were pretty high up in OHL ppg and are eligible for this years draft, while none of them are touted to be first rounders (I had seen Catenacci slip into the bottom 2 picks around March, but nothing more recent).
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 22, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
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