PHIL KESSEL IS THE TOP GOAL SCORER OF HIS DRAFT CLASS SO GO F*CK YOURSELF: Draft Analysis 1994-2010 take 3
Editor's Note: daoust is back with his draft database and a handful of observations on the top ten players taken in each draft class. With some obvious caveats.
I’ll be frank: I don’t know anything about pre-draft player analysis. Nothing. I don’t watch any sub-NHL level hockey other than the occasional Marlies or World Junior Championship, and even then, I’m not really paying that much attention. I could tell you who the Leafs should or will draft this year, but I'd just be making it up.
What I can offer to the pre-draft chatter though is the slicing and dicing of draft results (with the benefit of hindsight and actual NHL results) via this Draft Database I created. It's an excel spreadsheet that includes draft results going back to 1994, with player career statistics updated as of the end of this season as well as a bunch of supplemental analysis. If you have any interest in draft history or results, consider saving the file and keeping it handy. You never know when you’re going to get into a debate about 8th overall picks being a ‘sure thing’ (they’re not) or whether or not drafting a goalie early on is a good idea (not usually).
The first two years I posted this (here and here) I took some potshots at the reigning Stanley Cup Champions. This year I thought I’d be less confrontational and instead look at the top 10 players from every draft year and see where they were drafted . Sordid details after the jump….
The charts below show the top 10 players from each draft class from 1994 to 2007, ranked based on games played, goals, assists, and points. (I didn’t include 2008-2010 – with so few players with actual NHL results there isn’t much to see.) There are obvious shortcomings to these top 10 rankings – stay at home defencemen won’t really rank well other than in games played, which Aki Berg proved can be a flawed stat. And goalies of course won’t crack any of these lists, so keep in mind high-profile goalie draft picks like Luongo, Dipietro, Fleury, Price, etc etc when looking at these charts. Still, I think the info here is fairly interesting...
(click on charts for a larger version)
A few random observations (with a bias towards Leaf content).... feel free to make your own in the comments:
I spilled the beans in the title of this post, but I’ll say it again: Phil Kessel has more goals than anyone in his draft class. He’s also 3rd in total points. First of all, fuck yeah Phil Kessel. Second, do you know who else is 3rd in points in his draft class? Paul Stastny (2005). I’m not saying it’s like Burke has a pattern of trading for guys like this or anything. I’m just saying.
Look at Tomas fucking Kaberle. Leader of his draft class in assists with 445, a full 115 more than the next closest player in his class. It’d be nice if the narrative just for a minute switched from "Kaberle doesn’t shoot" (which has been proven to be untrue) to "Kaberle is a world-class set-up man", but that kind of perspective would be too much to ask. Also worth noting, Kaberle is now 2nd overall in points in his draft class, and is 10th in assists for all players drafted since 1994 - the only defenceman in the top 20. We were lucky to have him.
Nikolai Kulemin - 8th in goals in the 2006 draft class. Nice.
I’ve made this point in previous posts, but look at the 2002 draft class. DISASTER. Remember kids, that first round pick your team traded that ends up being 5th overall could very well end up being the 5th best player of their draft class - which could very well end up being someone like Matt Stajan. Drafted 57th overall by the Maple Leafs, he’s the 5th highest scoring player of his class at just under a 0.5 point per game pace. Draft shmaft indeed.
Henrik Sedin ended this regular season with 666 regular season career points. Then his team went on to win the President’s Cup, lose game 7 of the Stanley Cup, and Vancouver nearly burned to the ground as a result. Coincidence?
Patrick Kane was a GIFT to the Blackhawks, an absolute fucking gift. Replace him with any one of the other mopes from the top 10 of the 2007 draft class and the Hawks don’t win the cup. They may not have even made the playoffs. The "Chicago model" my ass.
If you look at the full list from 94-07, on average 62-67% of the top 10 players in their draft classes will have been drafted in the first round, versus 33-38% in rounds 2+. But if you look at just the earlier years of the database (94-02) , you’ll see that the numbers change a bit, and instead of a 65/35 split it moves to a 55/45 ish split between first rounders and late rounders. This could mean that those draft years had weaker first rounds than the last 5 or 6, or it could mean that over time, players from the later rounds emerge as stronger, more durable players, while earlier flashier picks lose steam as their careers progress. Time will tell...
Ok.... that's all I've got for now. Enjoy the spreadsheet, and the draft on Friday.
PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.
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Do people really hate on Kessel a lot?
The man is easily a top 20 goalscorer in the NHL, arguably a top 10 guy. And is a top 30 offensive talent in the nhl. How do you really hate on that?
Do people really hate on Kessel a lot?
Yes.
“He’s soft” “Doesn’t backcheck” “Not a complete player” “No heart” “Selfish” “Locker room cancer (no pun intended)” “Floats around the opposing blue line” etc etc etc.
Hear it every godamn day.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t crosscheck.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 22, 2011 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Which is legal.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Stalk rises
NSFW
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
by Curt S on Jun 22, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Hooray
Kessel has the most goals from the 2005 draft class, and that is so much better than saying Toronto has been the best team since 2005, or has made the playoffs lots (at all), or that the additional of Kessel turned Toronto into a contender, or…
Yes, he has scored a few goals. Not at an elite level, but 30 goals a year is fine unless that’s all you bring to the table. After all, Daniel Marois did that too. And Kessel having played the most games, and not backchecking, has nothing to do with his totals. Still, he scores goals and you win games by scoring, and he’s still young enough to improve and be a big asset, not just one piece.
Yeah, and it being 1989/90 had nothing to do with Daniel Marois scoring 39 goals either.
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and wait, Gary Leeman scored over 50 that year! Guess we shouldn’t have traded him after all!
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Still, he scores goals and you win games by scoring
You think this is some sort of goal-scoring competition or something?
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Mike Gartner scored only 30 goals a year too. Did it for 15 yrs straight so he must have sucked too.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Jun 22, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, shit if Daniel Marois could do it twice in the late eighties, obviously anyone can do it.
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
what’s it like being functionally damaged?
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
WTF is your problem?
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 22, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you’re insane? When you’re just sitting around, reading Guns and Ammo, masturbating in your own feces, do you just stop and go, “Wow! It is amazing how fucking crazy I really am!”?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
/slow clap
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
You’re always good for a laugh.
30 goals a year is good enough for top 10-20 depending on the season. How many NHLers do you think play in one season? Let’s say just 18 skaters per team (hint: it’s more) so that gives us 540 skaters. That means that the top 10-20 guys are in the 96-98th percentile of goal scorers. But yeah, that’s not elite.
After all, Daniel Marois did that too.
You are literally too dumb to insult.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Jun 22, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I love this guy
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
my only issue
has always been what we paid to get him, but in hockey terms, he’s absolutely elite at what he does well — scoring goals.
He doesn’t have the frame to be a banger, so he’ll always be accused of being “soft”. He’s not Wendel Clark, he’s more….Luc Robitaille? Brett Hull?
And he doesn’t play on both ends of the ice yet, no, but I’m confident that will come. It always does as snipers mature and figure out what it takes to win. (Yzerman, etc.)
I think if I could redo that draft, I MIGHT take Toews over him. Maybe. But his drop off from presumptive No. 1 before the year to No. 5 when his name was called certainly seems foolish right now.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
has always been what we paid to get him
That’s probably my biggest beef, especially considering the state of the team at the time of the trade. Though, Kessel is a very good player to have on your team, and he’s proven he doesn’t need Marc Savard to be good.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Might?
C’mon guys, you take Toews and Backstrom over Kessel in a heartbeat and Staal’s an interesting argument (two-way value, plays C, etc.). This takes nothing away from Kessel—those are arguably two of the best 10 or 15 Fs in the game.
"[Phil Kessel]'s as streaky as a flipped coin" - Shift
by The '67 Sound on Jun 22, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I could perhaps accept not taking Backstrom, but i’d personally kidnap Phil, stash him in my trunk and drive Phil to Chicago if it meant Toews was comin back
I would love to find one Leaf fan say they would take Kessel over Toews with a straight face.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
That’s my point
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
You’re allllllright
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Cyrano? Why are you hiding down there in the bushes?
This space for rent...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Jun 22, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
…to compare Kessel to Toews only solidifies the fact that Kessel must be in that same bracket of Toews and I’m happy to have a player like that, being named Kessel or not.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
but nobody
is comparing Kessel to Toews… everyone is saying they’d take Toews in a heartbeat… so Kessel isn’t in the same bracket…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Backstrom no
I don’t think he’s driving that bus. Ovechkin riding shotgun is a lot of it. I haven’t seen any advanced stats that suggest he’s stirring the drink, and my own eyes tell me his stats are about 25% inflated.
Toews sure, Backstrom no.
Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs
I had this debate with someone last summer. Backstrom is sick for sure, but how much has he benefitted from playing with Ovechckin, a generational talent and the best pure goal scorer in a long long time? impossible to know I guess.
Congratulations Tomas!
by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is it a bus or a drink?
Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production
by puckurgently on Jun 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
he really shouldn’t drink and drive
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jonathan Toews was named team captain at 20 years of age. He has won the Conn Smythe while leading his team to the Stanley Cup, and was named the best forward at the 2010 Olympics while leading his country to the gold medal. He might be better than Kessel. Maybe. By the way, Kessel is one inch taller and two pounds heavier than Wendel, so I don’t see what you mean by not having the frame to be a banger.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Jun 22, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm
Good points. Guys who play D sometimes do tend to score less than Kessel, and do tend to help their team win more. Go back, break up the play, go up and score. Two good things Toews and Staal are known to do.
kessel plays D, he just isn’t elite at it, that;s why he makes 5ish mil and not 7ish mil
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes I know, but even in today’s NHL a player who is six feet tall and over two hundred pounds is big enough to play a physical style. The fact that Kessel doesn’t cannot be attributed to lack of size. The other poster said that Kessel didn’t have the frame to be a banger. I say it’s not his frame, it’s his frame of mind. I don’t honestly expect Kessel to be a banger anyway, but he has to play with more sandpaper. He’s not some shrinking violet, he’s a big strong guy.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Jun 23, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
“He’s fun to boo”
Your 2011 Stanley Cup Champion Boston Bruins
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: 2011 Stanley Cup Champion Boston Bruins: YES!!! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)
by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 22, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
.
"He’s soft" "Doesn’t backcheck" "Not a complete player" "No heart" "Selfish" "Locker room cancer (no pun intended)" "Floats around the opposing blue line" etc etc etc.He’s a Toronto Maple Leaf

Twitter me!
by lucc on Jun 22, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well
Hollweg was a Leaf too, no offence. So is Lebda, so was Berg,…..
So was Daniel Marois.
Oh wait, you already knew that.
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The only way some people would hate on Kessel more would be if he was a Mexican tax inspector whose favourite meal was freshly cudgeled panda.
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
by article1 on Jun 22, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
With a side of baby seal.
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Jun 22, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
topped with a caviar and puppy reduction?
This space for rent...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Jun 22, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
overheard at the ACC / at work / at your local sports bar
“the kessel trade set the leafs rebuild back 5-10 years”
Congratulations Tomas!
Damn. That sucks. Kessel is truly underrated and may never get the respect he deserves all because of Seguin.
all because ofSeguinBurke.
Seguin did nothing wrong except get drafted. All the hate on him is ridiculous, and is just counterattacks when BOS fans laugh at how much better and happier they are to have Seguin / Knight / 9th pick than measly 30 goal scorer Kessel.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Boston fans are happy too
with a Stanley Cup and two long Cup runs to our zero since the trade.
by dsciswe on Jun 22, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Flaming out hilariously in the second round isn’t a “long” Cup run.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jun 22, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Kessel were still there in 09-10, the Bruins may be on back-to-back Cups now…or at least, back-to-back finals appearances. Seguin really showed up for one game.
The true impact of the Kessel deal won’t be known for a long time yet…once Seguin etc. really develop. The Leafs seem to have offset some of their payment with the Kaberle deal…
1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1
And Kessel's playoff numbers on Boston show he is a clutch/playoffs performer.
Kessel would have definitely helped them a lot in the playoffs.
More than Seguin did, anyway! :)
1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1
by LeafBoy on Jun 23, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They may have won two cups if not for that trade, which had zero impact on their cup “runs” other than losing an elite goal scorer.
Seguin wasn’t the only asset gained through the Kessel trade that worked in Boston’s favour during these cup runs. As Burke reminds us, cap room is also an asset. Getting rid of Kessel’s salary allowed them to add essential pieces.
They got room to sign Lucic and Savard, both of whom contributed roughly the same amount as Kessel to Boston’s Cup run.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jun 22, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sure, but then Savard went on the long-term injured list, which gave them back that cap space, which allowed them to sign Kaberle … who contributed roughly the same amount as Kessel to Boston’s Cup run. Hmm.
No, they had to trade Stuart and Wheeler to make room for Kaberle.
I know this because, you know, THEY COULDN"T PROCESS THE KABERLE TRADE UNTIL THE WHEELER AND STUART TRADE HAPPENED.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
and don’t say horton either, they cleared the space for him with the out going pieces
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Too many moves, too complex to point directly at Kessel. You can’t just swap Phil in and Seguin out, and you can’t honestly tell me that the Bruins would not have loved to have a 30+ goal scorer and top of his draft class winger in their line-up? The cap-space they gained is helpful, but who knows if what they filled it with was better than Phil? Kinda doubt it anyway.
by Leaf in Habland on Jun 22, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Long term injured reserve doesn’t really work that way.
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
Albert Einstein
by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 22, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just trying to construct a possible argument about why Boston won the cup because of the Kessel trade that doesn’t refer to Seguin. I certainly don’t mind being refuted.
They won the cup because Thomas went fuckin insane
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
GAME 2 IN THE TAMPA SERIES CHANGED EVERYTHING!
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It did allow them to sign Nathan Horton…
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 22, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
ahh, touche.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Jun 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought the cap room let them re-sign Krejci, not Lucic. Krejci was kind of a little bit important this spring.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jun 22, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty confident Lucic was signed DURING the season and that Krecji and Kessel both entered the offseason as UFAs
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
pretty much what i said, no, or did i fuck it up and not notice?
All were RFAs, hence the whole pick compensation gripes that Burke paid more than he had to
what pieces exactly would Kessel have prevented them from adding?
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Derek Morris, heh.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jun 22, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet they are but anyone with even a passing understanding of hockey knows it sure as fuck wasn’t because of what they got in the Kessel trade even factoring in the cap space.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
It’s surprising though what seems to constitute a passing understanding of hockey these days
by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What did the kessel trade do to help them get there cup or go on a run? Seguin had 1 good game, 1 great game, a bunch of bad games and was a healthy scratch for the future.
If they had kessel they would have had an easier time getting the cup this year anday have gotten it the year before
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 5:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Freaking precious you are
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we still hate on him
for his stupid arm tattoo? because that’s pretty damn moronic.

I’m just sayin’….
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh feel free to hate him as a person for sure.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Or for dumb tattoos. Or perhaps poor choices in music.
Like Bozak being a bieber fanatic? Yikes.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He had it before the draft, his father has a matching one, I believe there was a story on Yahoo about it.
by ShahofToronto on Jun 23, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh, tell him that his mother drinking during her pregnancy set back his mental development 15-20 years.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
WHY I WANT STASTNY
Top players ranked by point-per-game since 1994
Pts/Game total drafted
Sidney Crosby 1.39 2005 – 1
Alex Ovechkin 1.29 2004 – 1
Evgeni Malkin 1.19 2004 – 2
Dany Heatley 1.03 2000 – 2
Jason Spezza 1.01 2001 – 2
Joe Thornton 1.01 1997 – 1
Pavel Datsyuk 0.98 1998 – 171
Daniel Alfredsson 0.97 1994 – 133
Ryan Getzlaf 0.97 2003 – 19
Patrick Kane 0.96 2007 – 1
Steven Stamkos 0.95 2008 – 1
Henrik Zetterberg 0.95 1999 – 210
Brad Richards 0.93 1998 – 64
Paul Stastny 0.92 2005 – 44
Congratulations Tomas!
I Eould have thought staal had the best ppg in 2003
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 5:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
staal’s at 0.9 ppg for his career. it’s actually remarkable when you think about it…. only 6 players drafted in the last 15+ years have managed a point per game over their career.
Congratulations Tomas!
Makes you think
all that clutching and grabbing… all that goaltending… wtf were they thinking? It’s like we need distinct eras or something.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
of course
considering only 53 have done it in the history of NHL hockey… 6 every 15 years isn’t really that low a number. Also when you consider that players like Oates, Kerr, Mullen weren’t drafted it’s an even smaller total.
In the previous 15 years of drafting (1980-1995) you’ve got the likes of Paul Kariya, Sundin, Fleury, Larmer, Francis, Palffy, Mogilny, Turgeon, Selanne, Nicholls, Coffey, Hull, Bure, Lindros, Yzerman, Lafontaine, Jagr, Hawerchuk, Sakic, and Lemieux… I think that list of 20 sorta skews things a tad.
Obviously point per game players were far more common in the 80`s and 90`s than they ever were previously, and likely ever will be again. Goaltending is just too good for it to be the norm.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if not only goaltending but maybe the talent level is watered down now too? With the new online era, everything is hyped and overhyped.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
I suppose you think the ease of information, both good and bad, isn’t easily facilitated with the current techs available to just about anyone now-a-days? What do you mean or how do you get the correlation of what I said and what you said? All I’m implying that there is more hype and info regarding players now and not all of it is correct or worthy. Its not a shot at anyone or anything.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Henrik Sedin ended this regular season with 666 regular season career points. Then his team went on to win the President’s Cup, lose game 7 of the Stanley Cup, and Vancouver nearly burned to the ground as a result. Coincidence?
Holy shit, I think you’re on to something
"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"
The best complaint I’ve overheard it that “The Monster is the biggest bust ever,” the logic of which I can’t even begin to twist my head around since the only asset we gave up for him was cap space and we still have plenty of that (and it’s not like his name is either Mike or Jeff…)
Of course, while I was listening to this, Kessel was having a 4 point night against the Habs, so they couldn’t rip on him.
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
Yeah, Gustavsson as a bust? Ok. A bust from what? Free Player Land. Boo-hoo.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
The next time I have to deal with another critique of Kessel from a basher or an ignorant fan, I’ll try this out: “Kessel is top 3 in points from his draft year, behind Backstrom and Toews, and ahead of Jordan Staal and Lucic.” I hope that works. I figure sometimes you have to reason without numbers, and just resort to name-dropping.
Also, look at Wolski from the 2004 draft. In points, he’s right there with Zajac and Franzen (and presumably Krejci, had he played more games). As far as I can tell though, he’s really trending downward: a young scorer traded twice in a year by two “rebuilding” teams, and I believe he was a regular scratch for the Rangers during their playoff push this past season. Rangers fans bash him for not putting in the effort away from the puck.
I hate to pick on him (I’m biased: he’s a GTA kid with a tough past), but it seems like he’s a far better example of that “talent minus heart” label than Kessel could ever be.
by PlatinumSeatElite on Jun 22, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
Reply from a hater (not me!) would be: “Well he plays a lot more than Staal and Lucic, on a crappy team like the laughs he would see more ice time and what has Phil won lately, he was invisible at the Olympics blah blah blah i’m a senators/habs fan blah blah blah two first round picks LOL blah blah blah”
you forget 1967, golf laffs golf, and my dad is 6’4…
LTWW
by Tickle Me Aulie on Jun 22, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
This is dedicated to you Kevin McGran
There are 30 NHL teams with 23 man rosters, so that makes for 690 active NHL players.
From my study, 87.4% were drafted, so that’s 603 active drafted players.
They range from rookies to veterans and encompass about 20 draft classes.
Currently there are 210 picks in the draft (7 rounds at 30 teams), but there have been as many as 286in 1993. So let’s pick the middle ground and say on average that there are 250 picks to a draft reflecting the current NHL crop. Over 20 years, that’s 5000 players.
603 active NHL players from 5000 draftees; that’s a 12.06% success rate on average.
You said Burke got 105 out of 119 wrong, well that’s an 11.76% rate, which bumps up to 12.6% for an additional NHL player from Burke’s stock which is totally subjective.
In short, Burke is an average drafter.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Well summed up.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the most frustrating thing about this is that it’s McGran’s job to write about the team. If you’re going to call into question Burke’s drafting record you should have an understanding of the average GMs drafting record. How can you say Burke is bad at drafting if you have such a skewed idea of the average GM’s ability to draft? I’m not saying HOORAY BURKE’S AVERAGE AT DRAFTING, but come on, make the effort.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, he just writes about it as if the number he provides is bad without giving any stats or numbers to compare it to to show that it actually IS bad.
Hey, I’m a hockey writer:
Vancouver has only had two sports-related riots in the last 20 years, meaning they only have a riot in 10% of the years. Vancouver is one of the best cities in North America in terms of preventing sports riots.
The best part was the he compared him to Detroit. Right because that’s a fair and reasonable comparison. He even included guys like Helm and Abdelkader, who cares about them?
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
if you do the same stats comparison
does Detroit even match up to Burke?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s gotta suck when research and facts get in the way of a perfectly good “Leafs Suck” story. If you could please remove your context and reasonable expectations, there’s a deadline to meet.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Further to that, what about Dustin Penner, and Bozak? Not drafted but still “NHLers” outside the Top 10.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Marty St Louis, Andy MacDonald
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Niklas Backstrom, Dino Cicarelli, Brian Rafalski, Curtis Joseph, Borje Salming, Ed Belfour, Adam Oates, Peter statsny
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
all undrafted
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yaaaa I didn’t wanna go with retired players too (Backstrom excluded)
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
his name is funny
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Dan Boyle
I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.
by leafsfan4life94 on Jun 29, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Well Burke didn’t sign them or anything.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying that the only successes from the 5000 players drafted in the last 20 years are the 603 guys who are currently active? What about all the draftees over that span who made the NHL but are no longer playing due to retirement or moving to a different league?
Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari
by GreatKingRat on Jun 22, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
this is a serious flaw in your argument SF… he’s got a point. You need to figure out how many of the 5000 played in the NHL, not how many are CURRENTLY playing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
just looking
but since 1993 the Anaheim ducks have had 29 draft picks play 100+ games in the NHL on their own. That’s in the past 17 years… assuming that’s “average” you’d have over 900 players if you went to 20 seasons of NHL drafting.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
In their 19 years of existence
the San Jose Sharks have had 44 players play over 100 games… so yeah… even if you ball park it around 40… that’s 40*30 teams = 1200 players… which is a lot higher than the 603 players you’re discussing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Buffalo
widely regarded as one of the best drafting teams in the NHL has also had 44 players play over 100 games from their past 20 drafting years (back to 1991).
So yeah… I think the 603 estimate is hugely under-predicting… so yeah… I think your 12.6% estimate might need to be revised closer to 20%, in which case then yeah… Brian Burke is pretty crappy at drafting.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Even the Leafs
have had 33 players play over 100 games from their drafts in the past 20 years.
Let’s go with 35 just to be “fair” about it… 35*30 teams = 1050 players… out of the 5000 drafted… that’s 21%… if Burke is only good for 11%… you do the rest of the math.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
only problem with this is
there’s more than 690 players that play in the NHL in a given season due to injuries, call ups, and the like. The number is closer to 800.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Kevin McGran published this hack bash-the-Leafs piece anyways. Feel free to use the “report an error” button at the bottom.
This is where a witty signature might go.
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by Bower Power on Jun 22, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I have season 4 of the Wire on stand-by. When I finish my current project, I’m unwrapping that DVD and disappearing for a day or two.
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Season 4 is the greatest season hands down- is this your first time?
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03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 22, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I’ve watched (and re-watched) seasons 1-3 but have been holding off on season 4 until I have some free time. It’s such an amazing series. Hands down the best TV I’ve ever seen.
Bitter Leaf Fan Blog | You can Follow Me on Twitter
Easily one of the greatest shows. The character development and plot intertwining is genius. I could re-watch that show forever. Season 4 is unbelievable, my favourite season.
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.
03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank
Twitter me this.
by happiergilmore on Jun 22, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, I sure don’t mind Lucic showing up so high for a 2nd rounder.
by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
oh true, i was only looking at Kessel’s year
by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks
I took the info from hockey-reference.com. Initially about two years ago I copied and pasted the data from their individual draft pages. I did the same last year, but that caused a couple of problems. First, they were slow to update those pages with stats up to the end of the current season – so last year at this time the stats i showed didn’t include the 09/10 season, I had to update the database later on in the summer when they’d updated their draft pages. Also, they’ve changed their format of info on their draft pages so it doesn’t include position anymore. So I kept the old format I had and just added on the more recent draft classes, which now means that the position analysis tabs can only be used up to the 08 season, because after that I dont’ have position.
To update their career stats to the end of this season, I took the year-end stats I had from last year, copied this year’s results from hockey-reference, and then added this year’s to last year’s (based on matching a player’s name). It was a bit of a pain in the ass. I need to find a way to update the info more easily next year.
The rest of the analysis tabs were all done last year or the year before. Lots of ‘sumproduct’ formulas (my favourite). Doing the rank by draft year in the master database was a bit tricky, but I found a way to make it work.
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I am drinking the Kule-aid!
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so go fuck yourself
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by leafsfan4life94 on Jun 29, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions

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