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PHIL KESSEL IS THE TOP GOAL SCORER OF HIS DRAFT CLASS SO GO F*CK YOURSELF: Draft Analysis 1994-2010 take 3

Editor's Note: daoust is back with his draft database and a handful of observations on the top ten players taken in each draft class. With some obvious caveats.

Kessel_scores_medium

I’ll be frank: I don’t know anything about pre-draft player analysis. Nothing. I don’t watch any sub-NHL level hockey other than the occasional Marlies or World Junior Championship, and even then, I’m not really paying that much attention. I could tell you who the Leafs should or will draft this year, but I'd just be making it up.

What I can offer to the pre-draft chatter though is the slicing and dicing of draft results (with the benefit of hindsight and actual NHL results) via this Draft Database I created. It's an excel spreadsheet that includes draft results going back to 1994, with player career statistics updated as of the end of this season as well as a bunch of supplemental analysis. If you have any interest in draft history or results, consider saving the file and keeping it handy. You never know when you’re going to get into a debate about 8th overall picks being a ‘sure thing’ (they’re not) or whether or not drafting a goalie early on is a good idea (not usually).

The first two years I posted this (here and here) I took some potshots at the reigning Stanley Cup Champions. This year I thought I’d be less confrontational and instead look at the top 10 players from every draft year and see where they were drafted . Sordid details after the jump….

Star-divide

The charts below show the top 10 players from each draft class from 1994 to 2007, ranked based on games played, goals, assists, and points. (I didn’t include 2008-2010 – with so few players with actual NHL results there isn’t much to see.) There are obvious shortcomings to these top 10 rankings – stay at home defencemen won’t really rank well other than in games played, which Aki Berg proved can be a flawed stat. And goalies of course won’t crack any of these lists, so keep in mind high-profile goalie draft picks like Luongo, Dipietro, Fleury, Price, etc etc when looking at these charts. Still, I think the info here is fairly interesting...

(click on charts for a larger version)

Top101_medium

Top102g_medium

Top103_medium

Top104_medium

A few random observations (with a bias towards Leaf content).... feel free to make your own in the comments:

I spilled the beans in the title of this post, but I’ll say it again: Phil Kessel has more goals than anyone in his draft class. He’s also 3rd in total points. First of all, fuck yeah Phil Kessel. Second, do you know who else is 3rd in points in his draft class? Paul Stastny (2005). I’m not saying it’s like Burke has a pattern of trading for guys like this or anything. I’m just saying.

Look at Tomas fucking Kaberle. Leader of his draft class in assists with 445, a full 115 more than the next closest player in his class. It’d be nice if the narrative just for a minute switched from "Kaberle doesn’t shoot" (which has been proven to be untrue) to "Kaberle is a world-class set-up man", but that kind of perspective would be too much to ask. Also worth noting, Kaberle is now 2nd overall in points in his draft class, and is 10th in assists for all players drafted since 1994 - the only defenceman in the top 20. We were lucky to have him.

Nikolai Kulemin - 8th in goals in the 2006 draft class. Nice.

I’ve made this point in previous posts, but look at the 2002 draft class. DISASTER. Remember kids, that first round pick your team traded that ends up being 5th overall could very well end up being the 5th best player of their draft class - which could very well end up being someone like Matt Stajan. Drafted 57th overall by the Maple Leafs, he’s the 5th highest scoring player of his class at just under a 0.5 point per game pace. Draft shmaft indeed.

Henrik Sedin ended this regular season with 666 regular season career points. Then his team went on to win the President’s Cup, lose game 7 of the Stanley Cup, and Vancouver nearly burned to the ground as a result. Coincidence?

Patrick Kane was a GIFT to the Blackhawks, an absolute fucking gift. Replace him with any one of the other mopes from the top 10 of the 2007 draft class and the Hawks don’t win the cup. They may not have even made the playoffs. The "Chicago model" my ass.

If you look at the full list from 94-07, on average 62-67% of the top 10 players in their draft classes will have been drafted in the first round, versus 33-38% in rounds 2+. But if you look at just the earlier years of the database (94-02) , you’ll see that the numbers change a bit, and instead of a 65/35 split it moves to a 55/45 ish split between first rounders and late rounders. This could mean that those draft years had weaker first rounds than the last 5 or 6, or it could mean that over time, players from the later rounds emerge as stronger, more durable players, while earlier flashier picks lose steam as their careers progress. Time will tell...

Newpicturem_medium

Ok.... that's all I've got for now. Enjoy the spreadsheet, and the draft on Friday.

PensionPlanPuppets.com is a fan community that allows members to post their own thoughts and opinions on the Toronto Maple Leafs and hockey in general. These views and thoughts may not be shared by the editor of PensionPlanPuppets.com.

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Comments

Display:

Rec’d for the title.

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 21, 2011 11:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Most beautiful title ever!

Come for the truculence, stay for the waffles.

by intp on Jun 22, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

how many gm’s would do that 2003 draft over again?

by esto jr on Jun 21, 2011 11:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Do people really hate on Kessel a lot?

The man is easily a top 20 goalscorer in the NHL, arguably a top 10 guy. And is a top 30 offensive talent in the nhl. How do you really hate on that?

by OzzyFan on Jun 21, 2011 11:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Do people really hate on Kessel a lot?

Yes.

“He’s soft” “Doesn’t backcheck” “Not a complete player” “No heart” “Selfish” “Locker room cancer (no pun intended)” “Floats around the opposing blue line” etc etc etc.

Hear it every godamn day.

Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doesn’t crosscheck.

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 22, 2011 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Which is legal.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except in Columbus in November, when everything is happening, so his stalk rises.

by Shield on Jun 22, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hooray

Kessel has the most goals from the 2005 draft class, and that is so much better than saying Toronto has been the best team since 2005, or has made the playoffs lots (at all), or that the additional of Kessel turned Toronto into a contender, or…

Yes, he has scored a few goals. Not at an elite level, but 30 goals a year is fine unless that’s all you bring to the table. After all, Daniel Marois did that too. And Kessel having played the most games, and not backchecking, has nothing to do with his totals. Still, he scores goals and you win games by scoring, and he’s still young enough to improve and be a big asset, not just one piece.

by dsciswe on Jun 22, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

You make my day with these posts.

by Shield on Jun 22, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and it being 1989/90 had nothing to do with Daniel Marois scoring 39 goals either.

by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh and wait, Gary Leeman scored over 50 that year! Guess we shouldn’t have traded him after all!

by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still, he scores goals and you win games by scoring

You think this is some sort of goal-scoring competition or something?

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Jun 22, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way, that can’t be right

by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mike Gartner scored only 30 goals a year too. Did it for 15 yrs straight so he must have sucked too.

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Jun 22, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, shit if Daniel Marois could do it twice in the late eighties, obviously anyone can do it.

by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

what’s it like being functionally damaged?

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

WTF is your problem?

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 22, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’ve been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you’re insane? When you’re just sitting around, reading Guns and Ammo, masturbating in your own feces, do you just stop and go, “Wow! It is amazing how fucking crazy I really am!”?

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Jun 22, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

/slow clap

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jun 22, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love this guy

Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

my only issue

has always been what we paid to get him, but in hockey terms, he’s absolutely elite at what he does well — scoring goals.

He doesn’t have the frame to be a banger, so he’ll always be accused of being “soft”. He’s not Wendel Clark, he’s more….Luc Robitaille? Brett Hull?

And he doesn’t play on both ends of the ice yet, no, but I’m confident that will come. It always does as snipers mature and figure out what it takes to win. (Yzerman, etc.)

I think if I could redo that draft, I MIGHT take Toews over him. Maybe. But his drop off from presumptive No. 1 before the year to No. 5 when his name was called certainly seems foolish right now.

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jun 22, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

has always been what we paid to get him

That’s probably my biggest beef, especially considering the state of the team at the time of the trade. Though, Kessel is a very good player to have on your team, and he’s proven he doesn’t need Marc Savard to be good.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Jun 22, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Might?

C’mon guys, you take Toews and Backstrom over Kessel in a heartbeat and Staal’s an interesting argument (two-way value, plays C, etc.). This takes nothing away from Kessel—those are arguably two of the best 10 or 15 Fs in the game.

"[Phil Kessel]'s as streaky as a flipped coin" - Shift

by The '67 Sound on Jun 22, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could perhaps accept not taking Backstrom, but i’d personally kidnap Phil, stash him in my trunk and drive Phil to Chicago if it meant Toews was comin back

by samspade on Jun 22, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would love to find one Leaf fan say they would take Kessel over Toews with a straight face.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jun 22, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’d be silly. Toews for sure, easy choice.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s my point

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jun 22, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, I was reinforcing it.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re allllllright

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jun 22, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

right back at ya buddy.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

TELL HIM YOU LOVE HIM!

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Jun 22, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cyrano? Why are you hiding down there in the bushes?

This space for rent...

by fair_n_hite_451 on Jun 22, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

…to compare Kessel to Toews only solidifies the fact that Kessel must be in that same bracket of Toews and I’m happy to have a player like that, being named Kessel or not.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Jun 22, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

but nobody

is comparing Kessel to Toews… everyone is saying they’d take Toews in a heartbeat… so Kessel isn’t in the same bracket…

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Backstrom no

I don’t think he’s driving that bus. Ovechkin riding shotgun is a lot of it. I haven’t seen any advanced stats that suggest he’s stirring the drink, and my own eyes tell me his stats are about 25% inflated.

Toews sure, Backstrom no.

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Jun 22, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had this debate with someone last summer. Backstrom is sick for sure, but how much has he benefitted from playing with Ovechckin, a generational talent and the best pure goal scorer in a long long time? impossible to know I guess.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Is it a bus or a drink?

Purveyor of Pension Plan Puppets Podcast Post-Production

by puckurgently on Jun 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

he really shouldn’t drink and drive

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Jonathan Toews was named team captain at 20 years of age. He has won the Conn Smythe while leading his team to the Stanley Cup, and was named the best forward at the 2010 Olympics while leading his country to the gold medal. He might be better than Kessel. Maybe. By the way, Kessel is one inch taller and two pounds heavier than Wendel, so I don’t see what you mean by not having the frame to be a banger.

Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari

by GreatKingRat on Jun 22, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm

Good points. Guys who play D sometimes do tend to score less than Kessel, and do tend to help their team win more. Go back, break up the play, go up and score. Two good things Toews and Staal are known to do.

by dsciswe on Jun 22, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

kessel plays D, he just isn’t elite at it, that;s why he makes 5ish mil and not 7ish mil

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the Wendel comment,

you do know players were noticably smaller 20yrs ago? It makes a difference.

by OzzyFan on Jun 23, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes I know, but even in today’s NHL a player who is six feet tall and over two hundred pounds is big enough to play a physical style. The fact that Kessel doesn’t cannot be attributed to lack of size. The other poster said that Kessel didn’t have the frame to be a banger. I say it’s not his frame, it’s his frame of mind. I don’t honestly expect Kessel to be a banger anyway, but he has to play with more sandpaper. He’s not some shrinking violet, he’s a big strong guy.

Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari

by GreatKingRat on Jun 23, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

“He’s fun to boo”

Your 2011 Stanley Cup Champion Boston Bruins
Hockey Blog Adventure: New Post: 2011 Stanley Cup Champion Boston Bruins: YES!!! (I'm also on Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Jun 22, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

Hollweg was a Leaf too, no offence. So is Lebda, so was Berg,…..

by dsciswe on Jun 22, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

So was Daniel Marois.

Oh wait, you already knew that.

by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

is that kyle wellwood?

by Ben Schnell on Jun 22, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only way some people would hate on Kessel more would be if he was a Mexican tax inspector whose favourite meal was freshly cudgeled panda.

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Jun 22, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

With a side of baby seal.

Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari

by GreatKingRat on Jun 22, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

topped with a caviar and puppy reduction?

This space for rent...

by fair_n_hite_451 on Jun 22, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

overheard at the ACC / at work / at your local sports bar

“the kessel trade set the leafs rebuild back 5-10 years”

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 12:04 AM EDT reply actions  

gah, reply fail.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

all because of Seguin Burke.

Seguin did nothing wrong except get drafted. All the hate on him is ridiculous, and is just counterattacks when BOS fans laugh at how much better and happier they are to have Seguin / Knight / 9th pick than measly 30 goal scorer Kessel.

Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 6:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Boston fans are happy too

with a Stanley Cup and two long Cup runs to our zero since the trade.

by dsciswe on Jun 22, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Flaming out hilariously in the second round isn’t a “long” Cup run.

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Jun 22, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If Kessel were still there in 09-10, the Bruins may be on back-to-back Cups now…or at least, back-to-back finals appearances. Seguin really showed up for one game.

The true impact of the Kessel deal won’t be known for a long time yet…once Seguin etc. really develop. The Leafs seem to have offset some of their payment with the Kaberle deal…

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Jun 22, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

More than Seguin did, anyway! :)

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Jun 23, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

They may have won two cups if not for that trade, which had zero impact on their cup “runs” other than losing an elite goal scorer.

by Shield on Jun 22, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seguin wasn’t the only asset gained through the Kessel trade that worked in Boston’s favour during these cup runs. As Burke reminds us, cap room is also an asset. Getting rid of Kessel’s salary allowed them to add essential pieces.

by Peter Lynn on Jun 22, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what your’re saying is that TBL should trade us Stamkos for nothing because they will get cap room to add essential pieces?

by Shield on Jun 22, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, but then Savard went on the long-term injured list, which gave them back that cap space, which allowed them to sign Kaberle … who contributed roughly the same amount as Kessel to Boston’s Cup run. Hmm.

by Peter Lynn on Jun 22, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trade for Kaberle, not sign Kaberle.

by Peter Lynn on Jun 22, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, they had to trade Stuart and Wheeler to make room for Kaberle.

I know this because, you know, THEY COULDN"T PROCESS THE KABERLE TRADE UNTIL THE WHEELER AND STUART TRADE HAPPENED.

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Jun 22, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

and don’t say horton either, they cleared the space for him with the out going pieces

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too many moves, too complex to point directly at Kessel. You can’t just swap Phil in and Seguin out, and you can’t honestly tell me that the Bruins would not have loved to have a 30+ goal scorer and top of his draft class winger in their line-up? The cap-space they gained is helpful, but who knows if what they filled it with was better than Phil? Kinda doubt it anyway.

by Leaf in Habland on Jun 22, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Long term injured reserve doesn’t really work that way.

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

Albert Einstein

by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jun 22, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shush. He’s got a narrative going!

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Jun 22, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m just trying to construct a possible argument about why Boston won the cup because of the Kessel trade that doesn’t refer to Seguin. I certainly don’t mind being refuted.

by Peter Lynn on Jun 22, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

They won the cup because Thomas went fuckin insane

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jun 22, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only impact the Kessel trade had on their cup win was to make it more difficult.

by Shield on Jun 22, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

GAME 2 IN THE TAMPA SERIES CHANGED EVERYTHING!

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

It did allow them to sign Nathan Horton…

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jun 22, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Traded Wideman and his $3.6M cap hit.

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Jun 22, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

ahh, touche.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Jun 22, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought the cap room let them re-sign Krejci, not Lucic. Krejci was kind of a little bit important this spring.

I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Jun 22, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

All three were RFA the same offseason, but I believe Looch was signed early, so you are correct

by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty confident Lucic was signed DURING the season and that Krecji and Kessel both entered the offseason as UFAs

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty much what i said, no, or did i fuck it up and not notice?
All were RFAs, hence the whole pick compensation gripes that Burke paid more than he had to

by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was trying to agree with you lol

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry if that came of as “did i stutter bitch.” Honestly thought I screwed up somewhere

by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

(fack! hit post before finishing)… and you were correcting. My bad

by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hahaha no worries dude. I have chatted with you enough around here to assume good faith.

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 23, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

what pieces exactly would Kessel have prevented them from adding?

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Derek Morris, heh.

I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Jun 22, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet they are but anyone with even a passing understanding of hockey knows it sure as fuck wasn’t because of what they got in the Kessel trade even factoring in the cap space.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jun 22, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s surprising though what seems to constitute a passing understanding of hockey these days

by Self Destructive Zones on Jun 22, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

What did the kessel trade do to help them get there cup or go on a run? Seguin had 1 good game, 1 great game, a bunch of bad games and was a healthy scratch for the future.

If they had kessel they would have had an easier time getting the cup this year anday have gotten it the year before

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 5:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Freaking precious you are

Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can we still hate on him

for his stupid arm tattoo? because that’s pretty damn moronic.

I’m just sayin’….

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh feel free to hate him as a person for sure.

Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or for dumb tattoos. Or perhaps poor choices in music.

Like Bozak being a bieber fanatic? Yikes.

Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.

by nhlcheapshot on Jun 22, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow, I had no idea about that. I blame Ference

by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

He had it before the draft, his father has a matching one, I believe there was a story on Yahoo about it.

by ShahofToronto on Jun 23, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heh, tell him that his mother drinking during her pregnancy set back his mental development 15-20 years.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jun 22, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Best part
Look at Tomas fucking Kaberle

Nifty Mittens

by MapleLeafMole on Jun 22, 2011 12:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Set-up man of the stars.

by Caleafornia on Jun 22, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is awesome. Fantastic work!

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Jun 22, 2011 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

The Blackhawks kind of got 2 gifts.

Toews at 3rd overall over EJohnson and JStaal.

by samspade on Jun 22, 2011 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

WHY I WANT STASTNY

Top players ranked by point-per-game since 1994

Pts/Game total drafted
Sidney Crosby 1.39 2005 – 1
Alex Ovechkin 1.29 2004 – 1
Evgeni Malkin 1.19 2004 – 2
Dany Heatley 1.03 2000 – 2
Jason Spezza 1.01 2001 – 2
Joe Thornton 1.01 1997 – 1
Pavel Datsyuk 0.98 1998 – 171
Daniel Alfredsson 0.97 1994 – 133
Ryan Getzlaf 0.97 2003 – 19
Patrick Kane 0.96 2007 – 1
Steven Stamkos 0.95 2008 – 1
Henrik Zetterberg 0.95 1999 – 210
Brad Richards 0.93 1998 – 64
Paul Stastny 0.92 2005 – 44

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 12:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I Eould have thought staal had the best ppg in 2003

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 5:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

staal’s at 0.9 ppg for his career. it’s actually remarkable when you think about it…. only 6 players drafted in the last 15+ years have managed a point per game over their career.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Makes you think

all that clutching and grabbing… all that goaltending… wtf were they thinking? It’s like we need distinct eras or something.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course

considering only 53 have done it in the history of NHL hockey… 6 every 15 years isn’t really that low a number. Also when you consider that players like Oates, Kerr, Mullen weren’t drafted it’s an even smaller total.

In the previous 15 years of drafting (1980-1995) you’ve got the likes of Paul Kariya, Sundin, Fleury, Larmer, Francis, Palffy, Mogilny, Turgeon, Selanne, Nicholls, Coffey, Hull, Bure, Lindros, Yzerman, Lafontaine, Jagr, Hawerchuk, Sakic, and Lemieux… I think that list of 20 sorta skews things a tad.

Obviously point per game players were far more common in the 80`s and 90`s than they ever were previously, and likely ever will be again. Goaltending is just too good for it to be the norm.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if not only goaltending but maybe the talent level is watered down now too? With the new online era, everything is hyped and overhyped.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Jun 22, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

What? What the hell does the internet have to do with the talent of players?

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suppose you think the ease of information, both good and bad, isn’t easily facilitated with the current techs available to just about anyone now-a-days? What do you mean or how do you get the correlation of what I said and what you said? All I’m implying that there is more hype and info regarding players now and not all of it is correct or worthy. Its not a shot at anyone or anything.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Jun 22, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats such a ridiculous first round.

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 2003 first round.

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 22, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Henrik Sedin ended this regular season with 666 regular season career points. Then his team went on to win the President’s Cup, lose game 7 of the Stanley Cup, and Vancouver nearly burned to the ground as a result. Coincidence?

Holy shit, I think you’re on to something

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Jun 22, 2011 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

The best complaint I’ve overheard it that “The Monster is the biggest bust ever,” the logic of which I can’t even begin to twist my head around since the only asset we gave up for him was cap space and we still have plenty of that (and it’s not like his name is either Mike or Jeff…)

Of course, while I was listening to this, Kessel was having a 4 point night against the Habs, so they couldn’t rip on him.

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Jun 22, 2011 12:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, Gustavsson as a bust? Ok. A bust from what? Free Player Land. Boo-hoo.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Jun 22, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The next time I have to deal with another critique of Kessel from a basher or an ignorant fan, I’ll try this out: “Kessel is top 3 in points from his draft year, behind Backstrom and Toews, and ahead of Jordan Staal and Lucic.” I hope that works. I figure sometimes you have to reason without numbers, and just resort to name-dropping.

Also, look at Wolski from the 2004 draft. In points, he’s right there with Zajac and Franzen (and presumably Krejci, had he played more games). As far as I can tell though, he’s really trending downward: a young scorer traded twice in a year by two “rebuilding” teams, and I believe he was a regular scratch for the Rangers during their playoff push this past season. Rangers fans bash him for not putting in the effort away from the puck.

I hate to pick on him (I’m biased: he’s a GTA kid with a tough past), but it seems like he’s a far better example of that “talent minus heart” label than Kessel could ever be.

by PlatinumSeatElite on Jun 22, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Reply from a hater (not me!) would be: “Well he plays a lot more than Staal and Lucic, on a crappy team like the laughs he would see more ice time and what has Phil won lately, he was invisible at the Olympics blah blah blah i’m a senators/habs fan blah blah blah two first round picks LOL blah blah blah”

by HACKEY17 on Jun 22, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

you forget 1967, golf laffs golf, and my dad is 6’4…

LTWW

by Tickle Me Aulie on Jun 22, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is dedicated to you Kevin McGran

There are 30 NHL teams with 23 man rosters, so that makes for 690 active NHL players.
From my study, 87.4% were drafted, so that’s 603 active drafted players.
They range from rookies to veterans and encompass about 20 draft classes.
Currently there are 210 picks in the draft (7 rounds at 30 teams), but there have been as many as 286in 1993. So let’s pick the middle ground and say on average that there are 250 picks to a draft reflecting the current NHL crop. Over 20 years, that’s 5000 players.
603 active NHL players from 5000 draftees; that’s a 12.06% success rate on average.
You said Burke got 105 out of 119 wrong, well that’s an 11.76% rate, which bumps up to 12.6% for an additional NHL player from Burke’s stock which is totally subjective.
In short, Burke is an average drafter.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Jun 22, 2011 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Well summed up.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the most frustrating thing about this is that it’s McGran’s job to write about the team. If you’re going to call into question Burke’s drafting record you should have an understanding of the average GMs drafting record. How can you say Burke is bad at drafting if you have such a skewed idea of the average GM’s ability to draft? I’m not saying HOORAY BURKE’S AVERAGE AT DRAFTING, but come on, make the effort.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, he just writes about it as if the number he provides is bad without giving any stats or numbers to compare it to to show that it actually IS bad.

Hey, I’m a hockey writer:

Vancouver has only had two sports-related riots in the last 20 years, meaning they only have a riot in 10% of the years. Vancouver is one of the best cities in North America in terms of preventing sports riots.

by Shield on Jun 22, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

The best part was the he compared him to Detroit. Right because that’s a fair and reasonable comparison. He even included guys like Helm and Abdelkader, who cares about them?

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you do the same stats comparison

does Detroit even match up to Burke?

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s gotta suck when research and facts get in the way of a perfectly good “Leafs Suck” story. If you could please remove your context and reasonable expectations, there’s a deadline to meet.

This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.

by Bower Power on Jun 22, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Research and facts??? Bah, who needs those?

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Jun 22, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Further to that, what about Dustin Penner, and Bozak? Not drafted but still “NHLers” outside the Top 10.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marty St Louis, Andy MacDonald

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jun 22, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Niklas Backstrom, Dino Cicarelli, Brian Rafalski, Curtis Joseph, Borje Salming, Ed Belfour, Adam Oates, Peter statsny

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

all undrafted

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yaaaa I didn’t wanna go with retired players too (Backstrom excluded)

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Jun 22, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris Kunitz

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Jun 22, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

his name is funny

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Jun 22, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

taking the o out of country, taking the i out of kunitz.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dan Boyle

I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.

by leafsfan4life94 on Jun 29, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well Burke didn’t sign them or anything.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 22, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you saying that the only successes from the 5000 players drafted in the last 20 years are the 603 guys who are currently active? What about all the draftees over that span who made the NHL but are no longer playing due to retirement or moving to a different league?

Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
- Sten, of the Qunari

by GreatKingRat on Jun 22, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

this is a serious flaw in your argument SF… he’s got a point. You need to figure out how many of the 5000 played in the NHL, not how many are CURRENTLY playing.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

just looking

but since 1993 the Anaheim ducks have had 29 draft picks play 100+ games in the NHL on their own. That’s in the past 17 years… assuming that’s “average” you’d have over 900 players if you went to 20 seasons of NHL drafting.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

In their 19 years of existence

the San Jose Sharks have had 44 players play over 100 games… so yeah… even if you ball park it around 40… that’s 40*30 teams = 1200 players… which is a lot higher than the 603 players you’re discussing.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Buffalo

widely regarded as one of the best drafting teams in the NHL has also had 44 players play over 100 games from their past 20 drafting years (back to 1991).

So yeah… I think the 603 estimate is hugely under-predicting… so yeah… I think your 12.6% estimate might need to be revised closer to 20%, in which case then yeah… Brian Burke is pretty crappy at drafting.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even the Leafs

have had 33 players play over 100 games from their drafts in the past 20 years.

Let’s go with 35 just to be “fair” about it… 35*30 teams = 1050 players… out of the 5000 drafted… that’s 21%… if Burke is only good for 11%… you do the rest of the math.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

only problem with this is

there’s more than 690 players that play in the NHL in a given season due to injuries, call ups, and the like. The number is closer to 800.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jun 22, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kevin McGran published this hack bash-the-Leafs piece anyways. Feel free to use the “report an error” button at the bottom.

This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.

by Bower Power on Jun 22, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1 for Mopes…McGran’s a corner boy.

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2011 5:19 PM EDT reply actions  

mopes is one of my favourite disparaging terms.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have season 4 of the Wire on stand-by. When I finish my current project, I’m unwrapping that DVD and disappearing for a day or two.

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Season 4 is the greatest season hands down- is this your first time?

Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy

03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.

03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank

Twitter me this.

by happiergilmore on Jun 22, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. I’ve watched (and re-watched) seasons 1-3 but have been holding off on season 4 until I have some free time. It’s such an amazing series. Hands down the best TV I’ve ever seen.

by mf37 on Jun 22, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Easily one of the greatest shows. The character development and plot intertwining is genius. I could re-watch that show forever. Season 4 is unbelievable, my favourite season.

Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy

03/08/2011 - I saw THE Wookie score his 1st NHL goal.

03/19/2011 - Watched Kadri's 1st NHL goal from the West Bank

Twitter me this.

by happiergilmore on Jun 22, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm, I sure don’t mind Lucic showing up so high for a 2nd rounder.

by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Krejci too

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 22, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh true, i was only looking at Kessel’s year

by TomServo42 on Jun 22, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

PPP Post Title of the YEAR!

Contains the correct levels of Truculence....

by SydDave on Jun 23, 2011 12:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Great work

How did you compile your database?

Don't follow me on twitter: @theninjagreg

by theninjagreg on Jun 23, 2011 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

thanks

I took the info from hockey-reference.com. Initially about two years ago I copied and pasted the data from their individual draft pages. I did the same last year, but that caused a couple of problems. First, they were slow to update those pages with stats up to the end of the current season – so last year at this time the stats i showed didn’t include the 09/10 season, I had to update the database later on in the summer when they’d updated their draft pages. Also, they’ve changed their format of info on their draft pages so it doesn’t include position anymore. So I kept the old format I had and just added on the more recent draft classes, which now means that the position analysis tabs can only be used up to the 08 season, because after that I dont’ have position.

To update their career stats to the end of this season, I took the year-end stats I had from last year, copied this year’s results from hockey-reference, and then added this year’s to last year’s (based on matching a player’s name). It was a bit of a pain in the ass. I need to find a way to update the info more easily next year.

The rest of the analysis tabs were all done last year or the year before. Lots of ‘sumproduct’ formulas (my favourite). Doing the rank by draft year in the master database was a bit tricky, but I found a way to make it work.

Congratulations Tomas!

by daoust on Jun 23, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

What he actually means is
I am daoust aka a god among men

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Jun 23, 2011 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

so go fuck yourself

I'm thinking that when the Leafs win the Cup, I'll lose my drinking problem.

by leafsfan4life94 on Jun 29, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

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