Leafs Draft Pick Stats Analysis - Part 1
Ok, I know a lot of these draft picks are being analyzed from various perspectives around the Barilkosphere already. I'm also aware most of you may have already looked into some of this information. That being said, I'm going to attempt to do a bit of a rundown on comparables, and where the players the Leafs selected are at in their development.
Tyler Biggs - 22nd overall
I'll run through these in the order they were selected, so first up we have the Leafs initial choice, 22nd overall selection Tyler Biggs of the US NTDP.
First off I think it's important to point out that Burke and his scouting staff seem to have selected a number of kids with 1993 birthdates. Biggs kicked this trend off, being born on April 30th of '93. In comparison, Gabriel Landeskog who was selected 2nd overall by the Avalanche was born on November 23rd of '92. That might not seem like a big gap, but when you're dealing with a single year of development amongst teens, a 5 month gap is almost half a year and can be pretty significant developmentally.
At this point it should be clear that Tyler Biggs does not project as a significant offensive contributor. Despite Burke's statements to the contrary, Biggs has had a very limited offensive output for a first rounder. In two USHL seasons, his ppg production rate is only 0.50. By way of comparison, the likes of Thomas Vanek produced at a 1.42 ppg clip with 80 goals, and 153 points in 108 games.
Here are some other USHL players you may recognize from recent memory and their production rates:
| Player | GP | Pts | PPG |
| Tyler Biggs | 44 | 22 | 0.50 |
| Tyler Arnason | 52 | 82 | 1.58 |
| Landon Wilson | 43 | 65 | 1.51 |
| Jason Blake | 102 | 151 | 1.48 |
| Ruslan Fedotenko | 55 | 77 | 1.40 |
| Erik Cole | 48 | 64 | 1.33 |
| Teddy Purcell | 113 | 138 | 1.22 |
| Ryan Potulny | 114 | 135 | 1.18 |
| Joe Pavelski | 114 | 121 | 1.06 |
| David Backes | 87 | 90 | 1.03 |
| Andy Miele | 139 | 125 | 0.89 |
Suffice it to say, being a 0.50 ppg player in the USHL makes me think Biggs is at best going to be a 3rd or 4th line grinder. His production with the USNTDP was slightly (ever so slightly) higher with the U18 squad, where he ranked 5th in team scoring with 31 points in 55 games (0.56 ppg).
So what's the closest comparison we can make at this stage? Well I'd suggest that Burke and crew are hoping to have landed another Ryan Kesler. Biggs doesn't play centre, so that aspect isn't as probable, but from a point production perspective, they are reasonably comparable at the same stage of their development, though Biggs still suffers a tad.
Kesler produced 10 points in 13 USHL games (0.77 ppg), he produced 72 points in 102 USNTDP U18 games (0.71 ppg), with 44 points in 46 games in his draft year. The main distinction is, Kesler only registered 23 penalty minutes that year, while Biggs recorded 161. Biggs was also the most penalized player at the World U18 Championships with 49 minutes in penalties in only 13 games.
He's a solid skater, who forechecks well and goes to the net, but he doesn't have much discipline in his game right now, and he needs to focus on developing other aspects of his game. His own coach from the USNTDP, Ron Rolston (Brian's brother) had to say:
"He's a guy who is intimidating even when he plays the college team," U.S. coach Ron Rolston said. "We played Maine a couple of weeks [ago], and he physically took four or five guys right off their feet with physical checks. He just plays the game hard."
Rolston said coaches asked him to curtail his fighting "because he's one of our better players and we don't want him the box all night for seven to 10 minutes."
Here is what Corey Pronman from Puck Prospectus had to say about the selection of Biggs:
Now Biggs on the other hand is a pick I did not like at all. Nevermind the fact the Leafs traded up and dealt a high second to get him, in terms of the player himself there isn’t much there to dream on. Yes he has the plus physical game, decent mobility and has a solid shot but his holes are major possession-skill holes that are hard to correct. In a perfect world he ends up a good 3rdline player who can spot in front of the net on a 2nd unit powerplay, but likely ends up a decent to below-average bottom-six player who is a fan favorite for grinding it out and bringing a physical element but doesn’t bring high-end quantifiable value to the table.
Can't say that I disagree with any of that, so I'm let down more than a bit with this selection. Taking the "safe pick" with your highest selection leaves a lot to be desired.
Stuart Percy - 25th overall
This is another "safe" pick, but I haven't got much of a problem with it. Percy at least produced at a higher level in his 17 year old season, and he's another late birthday, at May 18th '93. This past year Percy produced 33 points in 64 games for the top OHL team, the Mississauga St. Mike's Majors. He had the highest point output amongst all D men in the Memorial Cup, had the 2nd highest point production amongst draft eligible D men in the OHL playoffs (behind Dougie Hamilton), and he was ranked 26th in the OHL in points amongst D men during the regular season (5th amongst those under 18 - tied with Ryan Sproul).
Scouts raved about his play in the Memorial Cup, and his play turned more and more heads as the season progressed. Here is a description of his play from scout Christopher Boucher (check the link for ratings explanation):
He [Percy] has an excellent stick, strong positioning, and makes an incredibly consistent first-pass. He makes things look easy, and finished with the best one-game grade (85) among his draft-eligible teammates. His grade this game equalled his grade from an earlier game I scouted; two grades of 85 in successive games is beyond impressive. And finally, Percy's grade in this game was better than highly-ranked prospects Nathan Beaulieu (72), Jonathan Huberdeau (68) and Zack Phillips (65).
Percy had the best risk/reward rating among his draft-eligible teammates. In fact, he had the best risk/reward rating of any draft-eligible player playing in this year's Memorial Cup final.
Percy had the best o-zone risk/reward rating of any draft-eligible player in the game. Yes, better than Huberdeau and Phillips. Percy was successful with 100% of his 15 offensive-zone puck-battles, while completing 15 of 19 o-zone pass-attempts. Powerplay time had alot to do with his incredible o-zone numbers, but a defenseman with top o-zone numbers in any game is still impressive.
Percy also had the best defensive-zone risk/reward rating of his draft-eligible teammates, but was second in the game to St. John Sea Dog defenseman, and 5th ranked North American skater Nathan Beaulieu (1.43).
Percy also had the top neutral-zone risk/reward rating among his draft eligible teammates, but was third behind Huberdeau and Beaulieu among draft-eligible players in the game.
Percy's all around game has been compared to the likes of Ryan Suter, and frankly if he turns into that caliber of D man, I think the Leafs have found another extremely solid prospect for the back end to go along with the likes of Jesse Blacker, Jake Gardiner, Keith Aulie, and incumbent youngsters Luke Schenn, and Carl Gunnarsson. Brian Burke likes to play from a strong hand on his blue line, and he's building a very impressive crop of D behind the leadership of Dion Phaneuf.
Josh Leivo - 86th overall
In my opinion this selection is the Leafs STEAL of the draft. Leivo is yet another late birthday at May 26th '93. His play early on in the year with the Sudbury Wolves was less than impressive, but he was being asked to do more than he had in the past in a tougher league.
He went from producing only 13 goals and 30 points in 64 regular season games, to posting 4 goals and 10 points in a first round sweep of the Ottawa 67's (who finished second in the OHL's Eastern Conference, and had the fourth highest point total in the OHL - the Wolves finished seventh in the East, and fifteenth of the sixteen playoff teams with a 29-35-2-2 record). He opened the playoffs with a bang, producing a hat trick and 5 points in his first OHL playoff game. He then followed his impressive opening series up with another 2 goals and an assist as the top team in the OHL - the Mississauga St. Mike's Majors trounced the Wolves 4-0 in their second round series.
Standing 6'2" and 180 lbs, Leivo still needs to fill out, but his production in the early season shouldn't scare Leafs fans. Examining his monthly splits we see the following production month by month (including his playoff run):
| Month | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | PIM |
| Sep | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -4 | 2 |
| Oct | 12 | 2 | 1 | 3 | -12 | 0 |
| Nov | 10 | 0 | 3 | 3 | -6 | 9 |
| Dec | 9 | 2 | 0 | 2 | -1 | 9 |
| Jan | 11 | 2 | 6 | 8 | +4 | 4 |
| Feb | 10 | 2 | 3 | 5 | +4 | 11 |
| Mar | 13 | 9 | 10 | 19 | +11 | 6 |
| Apr | 4 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 |
| SEASON | 72 | 19 | 24 | 43 | -4 | 41 |
Obviously his run in March swayed the Leafs scouting staff pretty heavily. Hopefully it isn't just a fluke, but the expectation that his development will continue in his 2nd year in the OHL is a relatively solid one. From Dec. 6th through the end of Leivo's season with the Wolves, he produced 17 G, 20 A, and 37 points over the course of 42 games (regular season and playoffs). That production rate of 0.88 ppg would have ranked him 17th amongst U18 OHL forwards, ahead of the likes of 2nd round picks Brett Ritchie (44th overall by Dallas), and Lucas Lessio (56th overall by Phoenix).
Leivo needs to make strides in his on ice awareness of shooting lanes, timing, and offensive anticipation. His skating and his play along the boards is already quite well developed though, and that leaves lots of room for growth in other areas. He may have reminded some of Jonas Hoglund or Jason Blake with his early-season tendencies to hit goalies in their chest protectors. Hopefully he can pick some more corners, or work on his dangling a bit, but we'll see if he can add more creativity to his bag of tricks. He seemed capable of it in the playoffs, so there's something to look forward to next season.
Tom Nilsson - 100th overall
The first of Brian Burke's annual Swedish selections was bruising defender Tom Nilsson. Yet another late birthday, born on August 19th '93, Nilsson managed to play more playoff games in the Swedish 2nd division (Allsvenskan) than any other U18 defender managing to get 10 under his belt. This is noteworthy because the Allsvenskan is a Men's league, and is not largely populated by junior age kids.
He also had a role on Sweden's World U18 entry this year, and won a Silver Medal with the team alongside the likes of Oscar Klefbom, Mika Zibanejad, Viktor Rask and Jonas Brodin. He was also named Sweden's best player of the game in their match-up against Canada.
He's a longer term project, who at this point plays a physically rugged game, but is relatively small from a stature standpoint at only 6' and 176 lbs. He needs to fill out in order to play his role effectively. There has been talk of concerns with his skating, but his defensive game is reasonably well rounded. Personally my concerns largely center upon his need to put on weight, and whether or not there's any offensive spark to his game.
On April 16th of this year, Nilsson signed an extension with his club MORA, so we should expect him to play at least another season in Europe. It is unclear if the Leafs are going to be happy with him developing in the 2nd tier Swedish league though, so I'm not sure if they won't be looking for him to either move to a higher division club, or come across to play in the AHL or CHL.
Leafs director of Amateur Scouting Dave Morrison related the following on Nilsson:
Very young still, born right before the cutoff date there and he really had a coming out party at the end of the year. Thommie Bergman really likes him, likes his potential, likes his upside, and he’s got a propensity to make a big hit in the neutral zone. Even though he’s not a big guy, he can make some pretty big hits. There’s a lot of potential with that guy. It’s a little bit higher risk, but a little more higher reward at the end of the day.
I'm a little wary of the idea of a "big open ice hitter" with a smaller body. While it may translate reasonably well in Junior ranks, I'm not sure that's a selling point in the NHL against fully grown men. If he does compare favourably to the likes of Niklas Kronwall it's from a physical standpoint, as Kronwall is also only 6' and weighs in at 190 lbs.
Here is a comparison of Kronwall's early development to Nilsson's:
| Player | Age | League | GP | G | A | Pts |
| Kronwall | 16 | SuperElit | 27 | 4 | 3 | 7 |
| Nilsson | 16 | J18 (Elit/Allsvenskan) | 35 | 11 | 9 | 20 |
| Kronwall | 17 | Div. 1 | 25 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| Kronwall | 17 | WJC-U18 | 7 | 0 | 4 | 4 |
| Nilsson | 17 | SuperElit | 37 | 2 | 6 | 8 |
| Nilsson | 17 | WJC-U18 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 1 |
It should be noted that Kronwall's birthday is January 12th, almost 7 and a half months earlier than Nilsson's, so the fact that he also got into 3 SuperElit games two years ago, and another 13 Allsvenskan games this past season is important to note (Allsvenskan has replaced the old Swedish Div. 1).
Neither player had a lot of offensive numbers at the age of 16 or 17, which may speak to the fact that playing on Men's teams often means a limited role for young Swedish blue liners. Going forward if he can produce a bit more he may eventually crack the NHL.
Ok on that note, I'll leave room for discussion by others. I'll take a shot at some info regarding the Leafs later picks tomorrow.
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Thanks for the analysis Steve, always interesting.
PS how do you get the info on on specifics of a players game like:
Leivo needs to make strides in his on ice awareness of shooting lanes, timing, and offensive anticipation. His skating and his play along the boards is already quite well developed though, and that leaves lots of room for growth in other areas.
Do you just watch so much junior that you can pull these facts from memory? Do you go clip hunting to watch these players games? Or are you basing it on scouts/coaches reviews.
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
a combo of all of the above.
He played far better when he was on the top line, and from everything I saw/read early on in the season his shooting was just… bad? He didn’t pick his spots well, and he didn’t shoot well particularly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
a lot of that stuff
improves with experience though, and if March was any indication, he obviously can make strides in his offensive play.
I’m going to have to see how he goes in the early going next year… I expect him to move up beyond the 0.90 ppg level next year frankly. If he doesn’t, I’ll be disappointed in his development… as strange as that may sound.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
22nd overal going back to 1994
Team Name Pos GP G A Pts
Quebec Nordiques Jeffrey Kealty D 0 0 0 0
Philadelphia Brian Boucher G 280 0 3 3
NY Rangers Jeff Brown D 0 0 0 0
Carolina Nikos Tselios D 2 0 0 0
Philadelphia Simon Gagne L 727 276 288 564
Philadelphia Maxime Ouellet G 12 0 1 1
New Jersey David Hale D 327 4 25 29
Buffalo Jiri Novotny C 189 20 31 51
NY Islanders Sean Bergenheim L 326 54 55 109
Edmonton Marc Pouliot C 179 21 32 53
San Jose Lukas Kaspar L 16 2 2 4
Boston Matt Lashoff D 74 1 15 16
Philadelphia Claude Giroux R 208 50 100 150
Montreal Max Pacioretty L 123 20 29 49
Edmonton Jordan Eberle C 69 18 25 43
Vancouver Canucks Jordan Schroeder 0 0 0 0
Montreal Canadiens Jarred Tinordi 0 0 0 0
chances are the 22nd overall pick isn’t going to amount to jack squat. taking a ‘safe’ pick doesn’t seem like a bad idea. it’s seems like a good idea actually.
Congratulations Tomas!
I'd say the last 5
names on that list are pretty stellar.
Giroux, Pacioretty, Eberle, Schroeder, and Tinordi are all either already or are touted to be future top liners.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
if you add in
Simon Gagne, and Sean Bergenheim (superstar in the playoffs FTW), then I’d say that’s 7 out of 17… almost half of them turn out to be good players. And I wouldn’t have called them particularly safe picks.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
8 out of 17
jack squat… 7 out of 17 pretty damn good… and 2 of them have hardly had a chance to reach the NHL yet. I’d say that’s 50-50… not “chances are”.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
schroeder scored 28 points in 61 gp in the AHL this year, that doesn’t scream “touted to be future top liner”
Tinordi is actually a pretty apt comparable to a blue line version of Biggs, scary tough guy who can skate, hit and rack up penalty minuites with little offensive upside
Pacioretty looks ok, but calling him a potential top liner is a reach, he is a 3rd liner with good 2nd liner upside
Bergenheim had a very good playoffs, but other than that has never even flirted with a year you could call “high offensive out put” except his 22 year old 2nd AHL season where he had 47 points in 55 games or his 33 points in 36 games in the SEL at 25. that doesnt exactly scream “legit top 6 player” to me
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Pacioretty is a good 3rd liner with 2nd line upside?
Based on what? I’d say scoring 14 goals in 37 games while averaging only 15 minutes in ice time is a bit higher than 3rd liner with 2nd line upside.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a Corsi REL
of +22.4, he produced 1.72 pts per 60, he also only had a PDO of 968… he isn’t a 2nd liner long term if he can manage to produce that way in the future.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
based on his numbers up until last year, huh, some reason I had the stats filtered to only show his AHL numbers.
Ok he’s a 2nd liner
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
with potential to be a 1st liner
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
and frankly I think if he comes back from that concussion in decent shape he could put up pretty huge numbers.
he also posted 4.75 p/60 on the PP… he’s a pretty solid contributor considering he’s only 23 next year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Either way
my point is, you shouldn’t be aiming for “average” in the 1st round… if he ends up average, that’s fine… I can live with that… but aiming for it? That’s weird to me.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
and who says they were aiming for average? maybe the scouts see something in this kid that screams “buried treasure”
maybe he is expected to explode next season? there is reasons mackenzie had him ranked 7 places higher than he went.
Is he a safe pick? probably, is that why he was taken? who knows
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a lot of people
look at his skating and his physicality and see him as doing more in front of the net if he played more minutes in a game.
I see a great skater that drops the gloves who has some pretty weak puck handling skills and a tendency to take way too many penalties. He reminds me in some ways of Wade Belak… and that bothers me.
If he explodes in college hockey in a year or two, great… but I’m not impressed by his “leadership” that amounts to fighting half the opposition or decking them with big hits… we can find grinders to do that lots of places.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess
I also find it worrisome that two drafts in a row we’ve taken guys that are described to the press and fans as similar to the likes of Darcy Tucker or Dustin Brown or something but when you actually look at the numbers, they aren’t even in the same stratosphere in the slightest.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean seriously
even Tie Domi could post 0.72 ppg in the OHL in his draft year… Biggs is at 0.50 ppg in the USHL???
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Good post Steve but one thing you have overlooked, as I recently posted in the other thread is that the Leafs still lack depth, not just in elite talent, though I think we are better but depth up and down the line. If a “safe” pick like Biggs and by safe I mean someone that will most likely make it to the show and reach his potential even though its not elite or a very high ceiling, doesn’t matter since we need depth everywhere still. All great organizations are great in part due to their depth at all positions. These players or picks is exactly what we needed. The only issue I can question is that if the extra pick was worth it but looking at it another way, what if there was a player you never thought would get to you is within reach but the next team and/or others are hoping to snag him asap, do you go for it and take him considering that you were going into the draft knowing you had no chance getting him?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
im I off base in saying that burke took biggs because he likes the way he plays big tough in your face, and while taking 169 pims or what ever (more than average? i guess) he still managed a .5ppg pace. since he is already big and physical burke wants him to now work on his offense moving forward – the same way we wanted kadri to work on getting bigger and more defensively responsible. or is offense a thing that cant be worked on and you either have or dont?
you can't "teach" size particularly
although that’s more the height thing… you can get a kid to work out and fill out his frame fairly effectively.
You can improve skating and some skills relatively speaking, but high end skill? offensive vision and creativity with the puck? to some extent that is developed really early on and maintained by playing in situations where it comes in handy at a high level.
Biggs has been a crasher for years… expecting him to suddenly blossom into a “scorer” later on is unlikely. If he does produce it’ll be by going to the net hard and causing havoc down low. He also has a heavy shot, but he’ll need to go to the right spots to make use of it…. I would never expect him to be a big puck possession guy though, so if he doesn’t do a damn good job of going to the net and cutting down on his penalties, he may max out as a checking line player.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
another example of this
would be Viktor Stalberg… excellent skater with decent size, but he actually had good puck skills from a possession standpoint because when he was younger he was an undersized offensive player in Sweden. He had a huge growth spurt, and had to deal with figuring out how his gangly limbs worked together, which is why going to the NCAA was a good move for him… but now he has an excellent skating stride, and size to boot, and he can do well with the puck possession game even if his shot isn’t stellar. He can develop some comfort going forward with being more physical (and looks like he is doing so in Chicago), but I don’t see how Biggs is going to get a huge opportunity to contribute a lot offensively unless he’s made a top end player quite quickly in the NCAA with his new team.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
So our 3rd round selection has a better ppg rate than our 1st round selection, and did so in a tougher league. Fan fucking tastic.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Jun 26, 2011 5:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
hey
we could have said the EXACT same thing last year about Ross and McKegg… it’s a TREND!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ross
had 68 points in 71 games in his draft year (0.96 ppg), while McKegg had 85 points in 67 games (1.27 ppg).
Maybe this is Burke’s MO?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody can draft a kid who puts up better-than-Burmistrov numbers with a Top-7 draft pick, but it takes pugnasticles of steel to wait until the 3rd round to do so.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Jun 26, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Just seems stupid. I think Burke is trying to assemble the Syracuse Bulldogs championship game team of goons.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Jun 26, 2011 5:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You wouldn't be far off
Devane, Knodel, Hanson, Smith, Ross, Biggs, Greenop, MacWilliam, Ryan, Brodin, Nilsson… all seem like relatively physical customers without necessarily much offensive upside.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
but then you have Kadri, Blacker, Mckegg, Nicholls, Bozak, Kessel, Percy, Olden, D’amigo who were all offensively competent pick ups
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
this is true… did I read somewhere earlier this off-season that Olden may be coming to NA?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup I did!
he’s apparently going to be in the CHL import draft at the behest of the Leafs?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see the Otters get him, have him play with Mckegg and Broll
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
that'd be ideal
gotta try to find the draft order for the import draft… I’m guessing he’d go fairly high.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually
would rather see him go to a team that needs serious offensive help up front where he can play huge minutes in every situation… I don’t really want him sheltered much.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I also wouldnt mind him going to the Blades to play with Nicholls, the W could be good for developing his all around game
hell i just want him over here
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the Blades would be that high in the draft order.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
I know, I just want him there, I have no idea what the order is
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Here we go
1 Barrie Colts OHL
2 Rouyn-Noranda Huskies QMJHL
3 Calgary Hitmen WHL
4 Peterborough Petes OHL
5 Baie-Comeau Drakkar QMJHL
6 Swift Current Broncos WHL
7 Belleville Bulls OHL
8 Cape Breton Screaming Eagles QMJHL
9 Regina Pats WHL
10 SSM Greyhounds OHL
11 Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL
12 Lethbridge Hurricanes WHL
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
they cycle through
each league OHL, Q, WHL… in reverse order based on standings from the season I think… although it may include playoffs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd think
he could go in the top 12 though so he’ll likely end up on one of those clubs. Although I’m sure they can trade picks too if they want.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
anywhere but the bulls
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
didn't screw up
Skinner much.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Leaf prospect+Bulls = scary to me
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Skinner?
I thought he played for the Rangers?
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
oh
he probably did… who am I thinking of that scored a tonne for the Colts?
Maybe Ryan Strome, Alex Pieterangelo, Stefan Della Rovere, Alex Burmistrov… whoever.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
the fact that they sucked
this past year had a lot more to do with rebuilding than anything.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I just realized
I was confusing the Bulls with the Colts… which is odd.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Barrie or Peterborough would be nice.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
yes
then we could at least see him semi close to home.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Broll plays for the Soo. He was traded during the 2010-11 season.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
ah yes, forgot about that
apparently he and McKegg are best buddies though
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
How could you not be friends with this guy?
Just look at his face:

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
yup, he’s in the import draft since no team in the CHL owns his rights, he could end up in any league
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 26, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
interesting that in the off season he trains with Mats Zuccarello and Ole-Kristian Tollefsen… guess Norway sticks close together.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
You’re a downer dude.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Loved the Leafs late round picks, and you’re warming me up to Percy with that report from Boucher. The only blemish IMO seems to be Biggs with his limited offensive potential.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
I think we all need to just
go with the idea that Biggs should eventually make the NHL and be glad with that. If he bottoms out as a 4th line grinder, then so be it. But if he can somehow magically develop into a 2nd line PF that’d be nice. If NHL checking forward is the low end, it’s still better than a complete bust. He’s a few years away no matter what anyway.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess so
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
I’d agree that 4th-line grinder is an accurate reading of his floor, but I’d argue his ceiling could be as high as putting out fires in Cornwall with his Dad.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Jun 26, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Chad Kilger was a much better scorer!
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What was up with Kilger anyways? I read about the fireman stuff but did he just get burned out on hockey or what?
We traded him to Florida. As a lifelong Leaf, he said “screw Florida” and decided not to report. When he failed to report, it was, in effect, retiring. And then he went to go be a fireman, because he needed to fulfill a certain “be awesome” quota.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
by Bower Power on Jun 27, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Firemen get more chicks than hockey players.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Jun 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
he wasn't a life long leaf
he played in Anaheim for years before Toronto.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He also doesn’t need to fulfill a certain “be awesome” quota. Oh wait, yes he does, he’s The Chad Kilger.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Actually, only 1 year. He also played for Winnipeg, and made the move to Phoenix, then Chicago, Edmonton and Montreal. Not many players managed to play for 4 Canadian teams!
Ah
He was drafted by Anaheim though… I didn’t remember all the other teams.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Kronwall
is actually 2 cm shorter than Nilsson. Kronwall is 182 cm which is 6’ on the nose, while Nilsson is 184 cm, which is like 6.03 feet.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 26, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
FRESH FISH!
Anybody there lookin’ for some fish? Tryin’ to unload some fish.
FRESH FISH! FRRRRRRRESH FISH!
Whazzat? Hockey? Jesus.
Sorry. Wrong site.
Follow someone else on Twitter.
by not norm ullman on Jun 26, 2011 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I don’t understand all this analysis and, in particular, the negativity. Who in the draft could Burke have drafted could you have said “THAT is a sure thing.” No one? Because there are no sure things in drafts? So why all the fuss? I don’t get it….
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 26, 2011 9:41 PM EDT reply actions
I comment
on this in tomorrow morning’s posting, but suffice it to say, I dont’ dislike biggs.
I just don’t think he’s a good pick at 22, and I don’t think we needed to trade 30 and 39 to get a player of that caliber.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
also
I’m not exactly negative throughout this whole posting… it’s like all you read was my comment on the Bigg’s selection.
If you read the Leivo section you’d probably not assume it’s all negative.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
no, my comment about negativity wasn’t directly aimed at you. it was moreso a response to the constant stream of postings and comments since Friday.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 27, 2011 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Size Matters
Not the size of the player but the size of the stable. I am with you on this … I am not on board with giving up 39. Scouting and drafting has appears to have improved over the years but it is still a gamble. Having more high picks should increase your odds of success and there appears to have been several notable prospects still available at 39. Burke seems a little too easy to part with higher picks for my liking. I like Morrison’s work, but I am worried that Burke is meddling too much, imposing his"truculent" stamp on early rounds where they should really be looking for high end skill. I guess almost everyone is saying that … so, either there is something counterintuitive going on or the scouts saw something that we are not seeing in the numbers. Regardless, we won’t know for several years.
by Raja Pakkomielle on Jun 27, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
The safe pick idea is growing on me. Memories of Tlusty and Pogge help me to appreciate the first half of the equation: High risk/High reward.
Let the Wookie win.
Twitter is a thing!
I’m still unsure if I like the safe approach. The thing I’m not happy with is that Burke traded up to get Biggs, who projects to be a 3rd/4th liner. That pick he traded could have went to better use. The safe approach will only net you so much depth, but definitely not elite level talent. In the future it will be interesting to see if Puempel, Grimaldi, or Mayfield end up better than Biggs and Percy, but right now getting guys who are sure to make the show, albeit with little high end upside, is better than a career AHLer.
Hey guys, I think everyone needs to chill out about Biggs and not scoring yet. For comparison, here’s Milan Lucic’s numbers…didn’t start to score until after his draft year. It’s way too early to be putting a limit to his ceiling.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
Nice write up, but I really don’t understand the Kesler comparison.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
I think that’s about as optimistic as it gets.
I’m leaning more towards a Colby Armstrong.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 27, 2011 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions
It was a comparison
of their style of play when they were drafted… I know Biggs isn’t a C. They were both big PF projects coming out of the USNTDP.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and
Burke drafted both players.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno man, I really don’t think you’d find any scout compare Biggs’ game to Kesler’s..at any point of their development. My opinion, anyways.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
Ryan Kesler
is listed as a 6’2" 205 lb forward who at the age of 16 posted 28 points in 56 games with the USNTDP U18 team. He’s always focused on D before O, and he plays a physical game (though more disciplined than Biggs). Kesler is also an excellent skater who came within milliseconds of beating out Marty St. Louis in the NHL’s fastest skater competition. He has leadership qualities and has played at a very high level internationally.
He drives the net well, he has a good shot, and he’s a power forward based on many descriptions.
Tyler Biggs is 6’2" and 209 lbs. He’s an excellent skater that put up 31 points in 55 games with the USNTDP U18 team as a 17 year old. He drives the net well and uses his size. He plays with a physical edge (which he may cross too often). He’s defensively responsible and checks hard, and he’s the Captain of his team.
What about this says they aren’t remotely comparable?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
the main distinction
would be that Kesler is a C, and Biggs is a RW.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 27, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, not going to convince me that is a good comparable. David Backes, Ryan Clowe, Milan Lucic, sure. But anyways, I don’t want to get into a Burtch-fest over this. Ha!
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
by TheBurnward on Jun 27, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
David Backes
Lucic and Ryan Clowe? but not Ryan Kesler? I’m finding this a bit confusing… he’s a better skater than Backes or Lucic at least…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 28, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
so you’re saying he’ll be a 40 goal scorer…..
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 28, 2011 7:06 AM EDT up reply actions
No
I’m saying in the offense department he comes up short, so I think best case he’s like Kesler minus the offensive skill.
And it’s ok, I don’t think it’s MY best comparable… I think that’s what Burke et al are hoping for.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jun 28, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Josh Leivo
He went from producing only 13 goals and 30 points in 64 regular season games, to posting 4 goals and 10 points in a first round sweep of the Ottawa 67’s
Any kid that picks up his production against Ottawa teams (especially in the playoffs) will do just fine on the Leafs.

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