Using Win Threshold to Anticipate Next Season Part I
Editor's Note: Ben Schnell with an interesting post on what the Leafs neeed to do in order to hit the magic mark of .550 that would see them into the playoffs. Probably.
A few weeks ago someone posted a link in the FTB to a blog called Brodeur is a Fraud which mulls over a series of goalie stats. Among these stats is one metric the blogger created, called Win Threshold. This post will be taking a look at the Leafs' projected win threshold, the win thresholds of the rest of the teams in the league, how we can expect their goalies to perform, and how the leafs should fare.
[In 2008/2009] the Detroit Red Wings had the league's best offence, scoring 3.52 goals per game. They also allowed the second fewest shots against per game with 27.7. On the other end of the scale, the New York Islanders finished second last in both goals for (2.42) and shots against (33.5) per game. Quite obviously an Islander goalie would need to be much better than a Red Wing goalie for their teams to have the same chance at winning, because he would have to make up for his team scoring one less goal per game and he would have to do it while facing an extra half-dozen shots against.
We can calculate what I'll call the "win threshold" for the goalies on each team by taking (shots against - goals for) / shots against. This gives us the save percentage that would result in the team ending up with an equal number of goals for and goals against over the course of the season. If the goalie's save percentage is above that number, the team is likely to win more than the lose, while anything below the threshold means that the team should end up sub-.500 (or sub-.550 in the shootout era).
Follow the jump for further information on Win Threshold, and my analysis on how it should pertain to the Leafs next year.
Just to re-iterate the quoted portion, win threshold calculates the save percentage required--from a team, not their main goalie--to most likely attain a win percentage of > .550 (with shootout losses). Just for comparison sake, a 0.550% x a possible 164 points (82PG x 2) gives us 90 points.
To put these 90 points in perspective, it took 93 for the NY Rangers to gain the 8th spot in the East last year, though they could have gotten in with 92 points. This was substantially higher than 2009/2010, however, as both the Habs and the Flyers got in with 88 points. Thus, we will maintain the 0.550 win % as accurate, though the playoffs may actually require 0.561 (92 points).
With that said, let's have a look at the Shots Against, Goals For, and thus Win Threshold of each team from last year.
| Team | GP | Pts | GF | GA | SA/G | Total SA | Win Threshold |
| Vancouver | 82 | 117 | 262 | 185 | 30.1 | 2468 | 0.894 |
| Washington | 82 | 107 | 224 | 197 | 29 | 2378 | 0.906 |
| Philadelphia | 82 | 106 | 259 | 223 | 30.1 | 2468 | 0.895 |
| Pittsburgh | 82 | 106 | 238 | 199 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.899 |
| San Jose | 82 | 105 | 248 | 213 | 28.9 | 2370 | 0.895 |
| Detroit | 82 | 104 | 261 | 241 | 30.7 | 2517 | 0.896 |
| Boston | 82 | 103 | 246 | 195 | 32.7 | 2681 | 0.908 |
| Tampa Bay | 82 | 103 | 247 | 240 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.895 |
| Anaheim | 82 | 99 | 239 | 235 | 32.3 | 2649 | 0.910 |
| Nashville | 82 | 99 | 219 | 194 | 30.6 | 2509 | 0.913 |
| Phoenix | 82 | 99 | 231 | 226 | 32.6 | 2673 | 0.914 |
| Los Angeles | 82 | 98 | 219 | 198 | 27.9 | 2288 | 0.904 |
| Chicago | 82 | 97 | 258 | 225 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.890 |
| Montreal | 82 | 96 | 216 | 209 | 31 | 2542 | 0.915 |
| Buffalo | 82 | 96 | 245 | 229 | 30.7 | 2517 | 0.903 |
| Dallas | 82 | 95 | 227 | 233 | 30.5 | 2501 | 0.909 |
| Calgary | 82 | 94 | 250 | 237 | 28.5 | 2337 | 0.893 |
| NY Rangers | 82 | 93 | 233 | 198 | 29.4 | 2411 | 0.903 |
| Carolina | 82 | 91 | 236 | 239 | 33.2 | 2722 | 0.913 |
| St Louis | 82 | 87 | 240 | 234 | 27.7 | 2271 | 0.894 |
| Minnesota | 82 | 86 | 206 | 233 | 32 | 2624 | 0.921 |
| Toronto | 82 | 85 | 218 | 251 | 31 | 2542 | 0.914 |
| New Jersey | 82 | 81 | 174 | 209 | 26.2 | 2148 | 0.919 |
| Columbus | 82 | 81 | 215 | 258 | 29.8 | 2444 | 0.912 |
| Atlanta | 82 | 80 | 223 | 269 | 32.2 | 2640 | 0.916 |
| Ottawa | 82 | 74 | 192 | 250 | 31.2 | 2558 | 0.925 |
| NY Islanders | 82 | 73 | 229 | 264 | 32 | 2624 | 0.913 |
| Florida | 82 | 72 | 195 | 229 | 31.8 | 2608 | 0.925 |
| Colorado | 82 | 68 | 227 | 288 | 31.8 | 2608 | 0.913 |
| Edmonton | 82 | 62 | 193 | 269 | 31.7 | 2599 | 0.926 |
We'll just briefly look at a few things in that table.
- First, while the Vancouver goalies put up really good numbers, whoever was voting for Luongo to win the Hart was out of his mind. The defense is a lot better than I ever realized, and the forwards are damned good at scoring--the team only needed 89.4% percentage for ~90 points.
- Boston is a team that was clearly carried by their goalies. The teams are sorted by their total points, for a team so high on the list, their win threshold was 90.8%, which would rank them right in the middle at 15th.
- Anaheim, Nashville, Phoenix, and Montreal were all also carried by their Vezina-callibre goalies, as they all finished in the bottom half for win threshold, at 17th, 19th, 23rd, and 25th respectively. Montreal was substantially the worst of the playoff teams for win threshold, and was carried by Carey.
- Despite Chicago having the lowest win threshold (#1) in the league, they barely made the playoffs, mostly due to the terrible play of Mary Turco, and a mediocre-play of Corey Crawford (though Crawford was super good for a rookie).
- St Louis is actually a pretty good team. They score lots of goals, and their defense is pretty good at eliminating shots. They just have terrible goalies. Jaroslav Halak put up an average .910 for a not too shabby 27-21-7 record, but Ty Conklin put up an atrocious .881 through 25 games, and Ben Bishop also hurt the team with a .899
- Edmonton, Florida, and Ottawa had no hope winning games with the non-existent offense, and undefensive defense.
- Just to see how Toronto was expected to place based on the numbers, for 90 points Toronto required a Win Threshold of .914. Toronto's three goalies combined for 1134 SA (Reimer), 777 SA (Giguere) and 620 SA (Gustavson) with 0.921%, 0.900%, & 0.890% respectively.
Doing the math gives us:
= 1134(0.921)+777(0.9)+620(0.89)/(1134+777+620)
= 1044.4+699.3+551.8/(2531)
= 2295.5/2531
= 0.907
This save percentage is much smaller than what we needed, and is demonstrated by our 85 points (0.518 Win%)
If we take goalies out of the picture, and base our standings on Win Threshold (How good are the defense at preventing shots and how good are the forwards at scoring goals) this is the order we are left with:
| Team | GP | Pts | GF | GA | SA/G | Total SA | Win Threshold |
| Chicago | 82 | 97 | 258 | 225 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.890 |
| Calgary | 82 | 94 | 250 | 237 | 28.5 | 2337 | 0.893 |
| Vancouver | 82 | 117 | 262 | 185 | 30.1 | 2468 | 0.894 |
| St Louis | 82 | 87 | 240 | 234 | 27.7 | 2271 | 0.894 |
| Tampa Bay | 82 | 103 | 247 | 240 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.895 |
| Philadelphia | 82 | 106 | 259 | 223 | 30.1 | 2468 | 0.895 |
| San Jose | 82 | 105 | 248 | 213 | 28.9 | 2370 | 0.895 |
| Detroit | 82 | 104 | 261 | 241 | 30.7 | 2517 | 0.896 |
| Pittsburgh | 82 | 106 | 238 | 199 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.899 |
| Buffalo | 82 | 96 | 245 | 229 | 30.7 | 2517 | 0.903 |
| NY Rangers | 82 | 93 | 233 | 198 | 29.4 | 2411 | 0.903 |
| Los Angeles | 82 | 98 | 219 | 198 | 27.9 | 2288 | 0.904 |
| Washington | 82 | 107 | 224 | 197 | 29 | 2378 | 0.906 |
| Boston | 82 | 103 | 246 | 195 | 32.7 | 2681 | 0.908 |
| Dallas | 82 | 95 | 227 | 233 | 30.5 | 2501 | 0.909 |
| Anaheim | 82 | 99 | 239 | 235 | 32.3 | 2649 | 0.910 |
| Columbus | 82 | 81 | 215 | 258 | 29.8 | 2444 | 0.912 |
| Nashville | 82 | 99 | 219 | 194 | 30.6 | 2509 | 0.913 |
| NY Islanders | 82 | 73 | 229 | 264 | 32 | 2624 | 0.913 |
| Colorado | 82 | 68 | 227 | 288 | 31.8 | 2608 | 0.913 |
| Carolina | 82 | 91 | 236 | 239 | 33.2 | 2722 | 0.913 |
| Phoenix | 82 | 99 | 231 | 226 | 32.6 | 2673 | 0.914 |
| Toronto | 82 | 85 | 218 | 251 | 31 | 2542 | 0.914 |
| Montreal | 82 | 96 | 216 | 209 | 31 | 2542 | 0.915 |
| Atlanta | 82 | 80 | 223 | 269 | 32.2 | 2640 | 0.916 |
| New Jersey | 82 | 81 | 174 | 209 | 26.2 | 2148 | 0.919 |
| Minnesota | 82 | 86 | 206 | 233 | 32 | 2624 | 0.921 |
| Ottawa | 82 | 74 | 192 | 250 | 31.2 | 2558 | 0.925 |
| Florida | 82 | 72 | 195 | 229 | 31.8 | 2608 | 0.925 |
| Edmonton | 82 | 62 | 193 | 269 | 31.7 | 2599 | 0.926 |
Or if we only look at the Eastern Conference (as this is who we are in competition with), this is the order:
| Rank | Team | GP | Pts | GF | GA | SA/G | Total SA | Win Threshold |
| 1 | Tampa Bay | 82 | 103 | 247 | 240 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.895 |
| 2 | Philadelphia | 82 | 106 | 259 | 223 | 30.1 | 2468 | 0.895 |
| 3 | Pittsburgh | 82 | 106 | 238 | 199 | 28.7 | 2353 | 0.899 |
| 4 | Buffalo | 82 | 96 | 245 | 229 | 30.7 | 2517 | 0.903 |
| 5 | NY Rangers | 82 | 93 | 233 | 198 | 29.4 | 2411 | 0.903 |
| 6 | Washington | 82 | 107 | 224 | 197 | 29 | 2378 | 0.906 |
| 7 | Boston | 82 | 103 | 246 | 195 | 32.7 | 2681 | 0.908 |
| 8 | NY Islanders | 82 | 73 | 229 | 264 | 32 | 2624 | 0.913 |
| 9 | Carolina | 82 | 91 | 236 | 239 | 33.2 | 2722 | 0.913 |
| 10 | Toronto | 82 | 85 | 218 | 251 | 31 | 2542 | 0.914 |
| 11 | Montreal | 82 | 96 | 216 | 209 | 31 | 2542 | 0.915 |
| 12 | Atlanta | 82 | 80 | 223 | 269 | 32.2 | 2640 | 0.916 |
| 13 | New Jersey | 82 | 81 | 174 | 209 | 26.2 | 2148 | 0.919 |
| 14 | Ottawa | 82 | 74 | 192 | 250 | 31.2 | 2558 | 0.925 |
| 15 | Florida | 82 | 72 | 195 | 229 | 31.8 | 2608 | 0.925 |
Of course goalies do count for something. Looking at the list, this is the reason Tampa Bay fell from 1st, and Boston, Montreal, and Washington all climbed higher that their respective positions. Buffalo and NY Rangers both eclipsed their Win Threshold, but not at as extreme a rate than the aforementioned teams.
In order to keep this post a reasonable length, continue on to Part II, which examines the Leaf's Skaters shooting percentages, and how this will affect our Goals For.
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what i take from this is that even though our goalies sucked last season (for the most part) it doesn’t really matter because we were still a bad team?
0.o
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 28, 2011 7:23 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, that’s essentially it
It also shows you how some other teams (habs) were worse, but pulled themselves up through goaltending.
As we all know, if Reimer can play out of his mind next year, we can make the playoffs.. but as it stands, our team (without goaltending) is about where we finished.
I’m working on part II now which will predict (roughly) where we’ll end up next year if all goes steadily
be cautious about predictions…
also, i think most of us believe the habs are a much worse team than their record predicts. what’s amazing is that they’ve done this 2 years in a row with 2 different goalies. I suspect this year Price comes back down to earth a little and they fail horribly.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jun 28, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the heads up
I’m actually using shot percentage to determine who will pot less goals (you, kulemin)
But then comparing the output of lupul to versteeg, etc
Then looking at the shots against and how beauch effects that
We all know how its heading but its nice to see the stats of it
Ill put part 2 up tomorrow,
Thanks for reading :)
by Ben Schnell on Jun 28, 2011 8:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
given that we’re not likely to sign the unicorn named Richards, these stats would make me look forward to a season of solid development by our youth movement, with a lottery pick as a reward at the end.
but then Burke will trade for a has-been starting goalie at the deadline and muck it up anyway. or prematurely deal Kadri and Kulemin for a 26 year old who overperformed two years ago.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Jun 29, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Y U NO LET dcwise comment that first?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jun 29, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Fascinating
A simple and illuminating statistic. Here’s hoping for a rebound year from Gustavsson, partly so the Leafs do better, and partly so I don’t get embarrassed walking around in the jersey I bought about a year ago…
so if goalies were equal, st. louis and NY islanders would make the playoffs
I'm building a beautiful statue, to make sure that no one forgets you
halak had a .910… if conklin didn’t have a .881 they’d be in
I'm building a beautiful statue, to make sure that no one forgets you
yep, and the problem is how many games Conklin played. If he had only played 5-10 games with those numbers it wouldn’t have been a big deal but he played 25 games these season, averaging that percentage.. frankly, that’s terrible
They’ll be even better next year with Stewart and Shattenkirk though, increasing their GF
Calgary
2nd best in the league for win threshold? That’s surprising. Kiprusoff was pretty crappy last year.
Don't follow me on twitter: @theninjagreg
I honestly think Calgary could contend in the west, the stats speak for themselves,
but as soon as Iginla starts to decline they’re done and they’re out of prospects.
We shit on them for sucking.. they don’t suck that bad,
but they have 0 prospects.
We shit on them for not planning for the future at all. They are literally a worse version of the 05/06 Leafs. They have more (and older) players with NTCs, are one of the oldest teams in the league and have VERY little youth and no prospects.
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
by BCapp on Jun 29, 2011 2:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Anyone remember when hockey was a break from math class?
by Orriginal on Jun 29, 2011 11:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
hehe, that would have been a long time ago. the league was already up to 70 games per season in 1960 from 50.
non-playoff hockey is played out over long 82 game seasons against a smattering of opponents, where individual heroic efforts, hot streaks, slumps, even animosity and personal vengeance stories average each other out
the only exceptions to this are the playoffs, and it’s no wonder they are the most compelling hockey. it’s not just the skill involved in games played among the top half of the league.
a four game win-streak in the regular season is made meaningless by a return to the mean in short order (as the Leafs experienced all too tragically to start the last year). whereas in the playoffs, individual efforts matter, a hot goalie matters, a cheap shot that galvanizes your team matters.
this is why american football and soccer are so compelling. the small sample sizes mean the stats are a lie.
Scoring by committee FTMFW!
by Peter de Chatham on Jun 29, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
but stats don’t lie, interpretations do.
Good stats
And they do tell an interesting story. We all know great goaltending or high scoring puck controling offences can cover up a lot of ills, here’s proof.
One reason why adding Liles may not mean much, why Richards may not help much. Strength right down the pipe like Boston and Chicago had, heck Pittsburgh too.
Richard’s woudn’t help the leafs down the middle? what?
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jun 29, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya shit we should just draft a Toews or Crosby.
Ya Richards would be terrible addition at Centre. What a piece of shit.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
by nhlcheapshot on Jun 29, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
great post
and great new (to me) metric. gonna read part two now.
i’d be curious to see our pre- and post-beauch/kabby trade win threshold. we got a lot better goaltending, but we were giving up a lot more shots too.
Congratulations Tomas!

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