Could this be Mikhail Grabovski's final season in Toronto?
by birky on Jul 12, 2011 11:01 AM EDT
in Reading the Tea Leafs
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Over the past three seasons, Leaf fans have witnessed the slow yet steady ascension of Belorussian centerman Mikhail Grabovski to the top of the depth chart. Brought in only months before the hiring of current Leafs GM Brian Burke, the 27 year-old pivot was acquired from the Montreal Canadiens for a second round pick in the 2010 NHL Draft and the rights to defenseman Greg Pateryn. His play in his first full season was up and down, but he finished with 20 goals and 48 points, good for fourth on the team. The recently completed 2010-11 season saw further progress in Grabovski's game, as he flirted with a 30/30 season at a reasonable cap hit of $2.9 million. Unfortunately, one of the downsides to Grabovski's signing of a short-term extension in the summer of 2010 was that he will become eligible for Unrestricted Free Agency on July 1st, 2012. He has quickly become a fan favorite, especially within the Barilkosphere, but there is certainly a chance this could be Grabbo's last hoorah with the Maple Leafs.
Much like the free agent class of 2011, the 2012 iteration is lacking in true star power. However, the first tier of players in the 2012 group will likely be four or five players deep. Names like Alexander Semin, Ales Hemsky, Patrick Sharp, and Mikhail Grabovski will comprise that first tier of free agents. There will be significant competition for the signatures of those players, and the amount of money on the table could be staggering. Ville Leino is coming off a 53-point season and was rewarded with a six-year, $27 million dollar contract. Scottie Upshall notched only 34 points last season and signed a four-year, $14 million dollar deal with the Florida Panthers. Suffice to say, 60+ point players such as Sharp and Grabovski will likely be looking in the 5-7 year range at $5.5 million per season or higher.
It's far too early to start wildly speculating on where these players might go, but I think it's reasonable to assume that Toronto is looking at a high price to retain Grabovski's services. This will be his first big contract; the deal that could set him up nicely for years to come. It would be tough for any player, barring a generous extension offer, not to test the free agent waters.
The NHL is also a game of numbers. While Grabovski isn't being pushed out the door, there are indications that the Leafs may be preparing for life without him. Signed through the 2012-2013 season are centermen Tim Connolly, Matthew Lombardi (will he ever play for Toronto?), and Tyler Bozak. Also consider that the Leafs have young Joe Colborne in the AHL, who should hopefully be ready for a full-time NHL gig by the fall of 2012. That's over $10 million in cap space eaten by four centers under contract through spring 2013. While no one is suggesting Grabovski has a foot out the door (or should for that matter), there seems to be a reasonable chance he could be heading that way.
Personally, Grabovski has grown on me as he has matured as a player. It would be a shame to see him traded in March or allowed to walk next summer. At the same time, I get the feeling that the Leafs front office doesn't necessarily view him as a long-term piece moving forward. And we know Burke won't offer Grabovski an extension during the season. As many have pointed out, the signing of Tim Connolly was a stopgap to buy time for the front office to re-evaluate the center position. I think it bought them less than a year, because they are going to have to make a very important decision regarding Grabovski's future in Toronto in a matter of months.
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didnt you already post this?
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions
I’m on to you
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
NO!
God I hope not. Going to wear my Grabbo jersey at least 82 times this year just in case.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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I thought you lost your visitation rights?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jul 12, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
And we know Burke won’t offer Grabovski an extension during the season
How do we know this? It seems to me that Grabbo is the first pending UFA during Burke’s tenure that has the potential to be a contributing player going forward. Guys like Antropov, Poni, and Kaberle were not. Has Burke stated he won’t negotiate with any potentail UFA players during the season?
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:09 AM EDT reply actions
well, I think Burke has a history of not-negotiating extensions/new deals until the summer. I don’t recall any talk of Schenn talks during the year. Getzlaf and Perry were re-signed during the summer when he was in Anaheim.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Yes but
Those were RFAs. He knows he can wait until summer.
UFAs are a completely different story. I’d think he had some type of conversation with Kaberle before they shipped him off to see what type of salary demands, etc. he was looking at. Although specifically in that case, he may not have wanted Kaberle back at any price.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, we haven’t had a situation like Grabbo yet really.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Those are RFAs though he uses the period for leverage and for the market to be set.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Kulemin was in the summer, MacArthur was in the summer, Gustavsson was in the summer, Reimer was in the summer.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Part of the problem is that Burke hasn’t really held on to UFAs since he became GM, so we don’t have much history to work with. He definitely extended Mike Brown mid-season.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at what I replied to.
I meant that those are many more RFAs that prove the point that Burke waits until the summer for RFAs.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yes, but the market for Mike Brown is pretty stagnate. I think there’s a world of difference between his situation and that of Grabbo’s.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
*stagnant
I presume.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
no
he spelled stagnate correctly… it’s just the verb when he meant the adjective.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't trying to be fun
but ok.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
to correct the mistake
….
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do we fall?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Because we’re Italian
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jul 12, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I hate you so fuckin much
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jul 12, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh I laughed, but you’re still an asshole
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
TRUE ON BOTH COUNTS
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
All RFAs though.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
any UFA's though
When did he sign Giguere? When did he sign Selanne? When did he sign Neidermayer?
Those would be more relevant to this discussion.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Birky mentioned RFAs, njd.aitken tried to pretend he was drawing conclusions from a small number of signings, I correctly pointed out that in terms of RFAs he was bang on about when they sign.
Now, when we’re talking about Grabovski that whole thing was a tangent but my comment was relevant.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Burke will probably start kicking the tires January 1st so that he is ready at the deadline to move guys. Same as he did with Antro, Poni, and Kaberle.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Exactly, but I think he’d be comfortable signing him long term should he continue his excellent play.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
The way he talked about Antropov was that he has a box where he slotted him in with regard to the future and what role/salary he should have and Antropov’s view differed so he got shipped out.
I think the same thing will happen with Grabbo.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yeah, reading that article from Loiselle it seems as though they want to be on the same page as the player w/r/t their role with the team and what is fair compensation. He’ll play hardball.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
And I think where Antro was tripped up was that they want to ensure that the player’s comp matches the role they will play in the future too which is tricky.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Look at the money offered to mid-level players this summer. Is Burke going to come anywhere near what Grabovski could earn on the market? Not just in money, but term as well.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
2011-12 is the last season for the current CBA, so if we’re going to be playing by “new rules” than perhaps we can’t make comparables to previous contracts handed out under a different CBA with potentially different methods for calculating salary cap, or even an altogether different cap level.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Definitely not, but many players choose to re-sign with their clubs rather than elect for free agency. It’s not always the best monetary decision, but cleary some players would rather re-sign with their own club.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I said below, he has settled down here, his wife and family are here, he is close with Kulemin, plenty of reasons to stay.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
this is assuming
that Grabovski’s concept of what he deserves is as unreasonable as what crazy GM’s on other teams are willing to give him.
Setting yourself up with a huge pay day that you’ll never earn (because the numbers are just ridiculous) is a quick way to make yourself a goat in many towns.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Grabovski won’t be the one trying to figure out what his worth is. That will be up to his agent. I don’t think many NHL free agents turn down bigger deals because they’re afraid they can’t back it up.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
hm
I think a lot of guys re-sign with their current team because they think the money is decent, and they think they have a chance to be something big in the town they’re in.
I think in Toronto that’s a big deal frankly. If he’s successful here he can reap more in endorsement deals and long term living than he could in say… Florida or Columbus.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
think about 10-15 years from now
when he’s long retired… he could be a Leaf Legend who we keep around for random honarariums and the like… or he could go play a crappy role in Columbus or Florida and never make it anywhere long term.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there are plenty of reasons why a player would take slightly less money to stay where he is right now. I just don’t think being afraid of becoming a goat is one of them.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
perhaps not
and I’ll agree to that… I just think there’s a lot of reasons to stick around Toronto… particularly if he can be a key piece of a competitive team in the future.
In 4-5 years when we’re actually really competitive, a 32 year old Grabovski could be a team leader.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely, although now I’m wondering how old Antro was when we shipped him out. Probably not that much older than Grabbo is.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I think a big part of the reason Antro was shipped out is because he wasn’t a Burke player, not because he didn’t fit the plan. Big forwards who can put up a good number of points are exactly what people have said this team needs for the past couple of years.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
The rumour was that Antro wanted a 4/5 year deal (which he got) and Burke wanted to give him a 2 year deal because he presumably saw him as a stopgap similar to Tim Connolly.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Yeah it was the term more than anything.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
so you don't think
his view and Grabovski’s will align? That’s a shame… a lot of this depends on Grabo this year… if he proves he’s a potential 70+ point player… then I think Burke’s view may shift.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
And we know Burke won’t offer Grabovski an extension during the season.
Why would we believe this? Burke has signed players to extensions during the season before (Mike Brown, for example).
I also find it hard to believe that the Leafs would let Grabovski go unless:
a) Burke finds a legitimate #1 centre at some point this year; or
b) Grabovski’s salary demands are off-the-charts
He’s still our best centre, and unless we think Connolly is a long-term solution (I don’t), letting Grabovski walk without another plan in place seems extremely foolish.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Grabovski’s salary demands are off-the-charts
More than anything this is likely the going to be the case. I can see Loiselle approaching Grabbo mid-season and saying, this is what we’re thinking in terms of dollars and term. If they’re not optimistic a deal can be reached I can see him being moved.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
If MGK clicks again this year, Grabbo may want to stay.
But ya… if we can’t work out a long term (in Burke terms: 4-5 years) deal before he hits UFA… well i’m going to have a sad.
ASSUMING he has a similar year to last year he will be up for a pretty big raise.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
just to be clear...
lines like MGK don’t normally suddenly stop clicking… I expect them to basically pick up exactly where they left off barring injury.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
and I also remember them hardly playing together this past season.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
which wasn't because
they wouldn’t click… but because MGK was too good to break up.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
In 2009-10
the KBK line was the most frequently used line on the Leafs at 5.53%.
Last year it was used 0.8% of the time in comparison to 16.98% of the time for MGK.
So yeah… saying it didn’t click is hard to call because frankly they hardly played together.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see Grabbo commanding a hefty raise.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Jul 12, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
OH there is not doubt about that. But if he proves to be worth it we’ve got to hang onto him.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
absolutely. Although on the other hand, I wonder how willing he’d be to take a hometown discount.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Jul 12, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Doubt it. The “hometown discount” is not an ready thing to sell to a guy who’s only been around for a couple of years.
Let the Wookie win.
Twitter is a thing!
by Kenjamin on Jul 12, 2011 4:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He’ll have played here four years, basically this is the only pro team he’s ever known. He only played three games for Montreal. He also played AHL in Hamilton. I think if he likes it and he might take a little off.
I don’t think we can expect a hometown discount.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
put yourself in a player’s shoes… barring injury, you’ve got at max, a dozen or so seasons to play (ignoring outliers like mark recchi & lidstrom)… in that time your priorities are probably a) you want to earn as much money as possible… b) you want to live in a city that suits your/your family’s lifestyle… c) you want to play for a winning team. i think overwhelmingly (a) rules above the rest… so ‘home-town discount?’ i highhhhly doubt it.
At a certain point we need to be willing to pay for UFAs. I don’t want to see anything absurd like Ehrhoff for $10 million, but if Grabovski wants $5 million a year for 4-5 years, then I think we should give it to him. 60 point players aren’t all that common, and he’s shown a willingness to work on his fitness and his defensive game that makes me think he isn’t going to suddenly become worthless when he hits 30.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
teams don't
tend to get better if they consistently trade players the moment they become valuable.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Should we offer to ban pineapple images and GIF’s until he resigns as a gesture of good will?
Self Proclaimed Mayor of the CC
"He should be wearing a Sens sweater" - describing someone acting less than sane or competent. Use it.
Absolutely not.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
That it just out of the Question.
We should also, carry over our Pineapple GIF’s in the CC so they’re readily accessible.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Jul 12, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t think I haven’t saved a .doc file with the code for gif avatars and big fonts.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
i need this file.
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Jul 12, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Google doc that bad boy!
Let the Wookie win.
Twitter is a thing!
by Kenjamin on Jul 12, 2011 4:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No can do.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
Because they fuck up the comments.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
geez, sorry.
i meant to direct that question to someone in charge.
Self Proclaimed Mayor of the CC
"He should be wearing a Sens sweater" - describing someone acting less than sane or competent. Use it.
Fixed your signature for you.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Heed your new signature.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
by PPP on Jul 12, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
OH GOD HE’S GOT HIS POWERS BACK! EVERYONE BACK TO THE CC
Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10
by thenumber14 on Jul 12, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’re not safe anywhere.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
You’re like the White Ranger now.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I for one welcome our old/new PPP overlord
by Nigel Cadbury on Jul 12, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You will keep your head
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I’ve been clamoring for a PPP Heel turn for a while now….
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
YOU’RE NOT OUR REAL DAD.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, we’re telling chemmy on you
Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about humans
by Future_considerations on Jul 12, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
hey I think ex- weekday dad is violating his restraining order
Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about humans
by Future_considerations on Jul 12, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Since the lockout most of the best players never make UFA. If (IF) Burke et al see Mickey Pineapples as a key piece moving forward, I am confident they will lock him up before next July 1.
My degree is worthless
and if they don’t, he is probably gone at the deadline
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s the key, if he proves he is worth signing an extension then it will get done, UNLESS he has some insane contract demands.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO OCCUR
Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.
Stoik_Leafs Twitter
by Chris Stoikoff on Jul 12, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
zz
MY LIFE WITHOUT GRABBO =
Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about humans
by Future_considerations on Jul 12, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
There is absolutely no reason if the Leafs are in the mode to collect and keep skilled players that play certain roles that they would even consider having Grabovski walk or not be on the team unless he fails to perform the role the management envisions for him. He is entering his prime and its not like once a player enters his prime its all down hill from there… good players maintain their peak. I can’t see him gone unless its for an upgrade and not because they “need to make room” for unproven younger/cheaper (some – aka fans, think better) player(s).
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
he isn't "entering" his prime
he’s actually leaving it… players generally peak offensively at 25… and trail off after 30… he’s 28.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
ok... he's turning 28
THIS season in January… mid year… whatever.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
What players were used in this peak sample? The whole league? Top 50? Does it account for players who hit their peak at a later date? Does it account for the league wide reduction in goals per game?
does it come with fries and a large coke?
by Tickle Me Aulie on Jul 12, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It
was actually a study done by Gabe Desjardins using players both in the NHL and in other lower leagues like the AHL and ECHL going back for a number of years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
also
how can it NOT account for players who hit their peak at a later date?
It doesn’t mean guys hit their peak right at 25… some guys will be later some earlier… Grabovski obviously peaked AFTER 25… he did so at 27… but the large spot on the curve is around 25… so you want to be competitive in and around that age range for the majority of your guys.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry to reply so late.. working a lot now and on west coast…
I disagree, or better yet maybe I disagree with your terminology or definition of “prime”. I think you’re right players peak or enter their prime at around 25 (not all do but most). That should be in no way reflect that post 25 the player is not an effective or nearly as good. I think just because someone hits their peak or prime, whether its at 25 or a bit later, doesn’t equate to the following years he is on a decline as in he is no longer effective.
For an example if a players peak in a given year he scores 100 points but every year subsequently to that year he scores 80 points the next 3-4 years, I see that as a player that plateaued at 80 but had a “career year” scoring 100 once. But say that is a poor example, lets use the player in question. He scored 58 points. Lets say next year he does the same or a point or two less then the following year he does the same. Has his past his peak or prime? I dont think so. I look at past prime or peak where a player can not or does not have the ability to play or score at the pace he once has. Also can can be seen in a drastic decline of points not just a few… but perhaps I am not as much as a stickler for exactness as some are.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
Which of Connolly, Lombardi, Bozak or Colborne is pushing Grabbo out of a job, exactly? He’s better than three of them and Connolly’s a push at best, but Grabbo’s younger.
You’re right that the Connolly signing bought the Leafs a window of one year. If Grabbo repeats what he accomplished last season, then he’s the guy. Colborne gets a year in the minors to get used to top-line responsibilities, Lombardi gets a year to try and get his career back on track, Bozak gets a year to figure what kind of NHL player he’s going to be.
Basically if Grabbo earns his keep then everyone else is on a one-year deal at reasonable salaries, and moving the odd man out shouldn’t be difficult at all.
Grabovski will be 28 next summer; while I’m not going to say I expect him to suddenly jump up to being a ppg guy, I think him maintaining as a 60 point guy (and maybe cresting 70) isn’t out of the question. A 5 year deal would take him to 33, or roughly to the point where he starts to see his production decline (from here on known as the Brad Richards Zone). You’re probably looking at around 5 ish for a player of that ilk, and I’m totally prepared to make that investment in a guy who works his ass off, drives production, moves the puck up the ice, and completely pisses off Habs fans.
Yo Grabbo Grabbo.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
The biggest thing for me is that Grabbo seems like the kind of guy that stays ridiculously fit and can maybe push that drop off a bit further down the line.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Even if it doesn`t.
I can`t see any scenario where Grbaovski`s next contract takes him past the age of 33. Whoever locks up Grabovski (and I`d wager it`s us) is basically getting the entire apex of his career arc.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
players
tend to peak around 25… he’s turning 28… the fact that he’s already posted a 58 point season means it’s unlikely to keep going up…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
even if he patterns himself
after say Datsyuk… he peaked from 27 to 30… and then dipped the past 2 years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose you could call it dipping
but Datsyuk was still PPG+ this year.. I’d say if you’re over PPG you’re pretty consistant
Its like saying Gretzky dipped in production after his 210 point season.. true.. but he was still consistently dominant as fuck
there's a pretty big distinction
between 1.18, 1.20 and 0.88 and 1.05 ppg seasons.
1.20 over an 82 game season is 98 points, 1.05 is only 86… both are still quite good, but one is obviously lower than the other.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
also
older players tend to break down more physically… Datsyuk missing more time due to injury could be part of that.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
his totals have gone
35-51-68-87-87-97-97-70-59…
That’s a peak and then drop off… he might pop up above 80 again next year, but the odds decrease as he gets older.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I’ve seen his totals
I suppose youre right if the injuries are due to his age
but I bet that that is unlikely.. frankly he’s been lucky to play so many games so far
If you pro-rate his 59 points to 80 games its 85 I think? so pretty decent..
you’re right, a drop off, but still consistent enough to not be worried
you may not think
injuries are a result of age, but joints are far easier to screw up the older you get… and recovery times tend to be longer… which means players miss more time due to injury.
It also depends on what the injuries are… repetitive stress injuries, or things like back problems, are generally more common when a player is older.
Datsyuk missed time this past year for the following “reasons”.
7 games due to a “lower body” injury in April
3 games with a hand injury in February
16 games with a broken right hand in January
That’s 2 distinct injuries… which combined to have him miss 26 games… some of it into the playoffs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know the cause of the broken hand, but a broken hand does not scream age to me.
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
no
but random “lower body” injury could be?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
listen
I’m not particularly old, but I’m turning 32 in a month, and my knee and back cause me issues pretty regularly… one is a recurring problem from when I completely tore my MCL and partially tore my ACL, the other one is just randomness from a fall I had when I was like 23.
I exercise regularly, and eat decently (though obviously not like an elite athlete) but I definitely feel far older now than I did when I was 25 physically speaking.
Either way… I just think it’s something that helps explain the decrease in production.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I didnt say injuries arent a result of age
I said I doubt his injuries are a result of age
STRAW MAN STRAW MAN
by Ben Schnell on Jul 12, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying I expect his production to keep going up.
But if he plateaus as a guy who hits 55-60 points, and he’s still going to be able to maintain that sort of production for at least 4 years, well, what’s the rush in moving him along? Especially since we don’t have anybody ready to replace him.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
well
we do… but they aren’t to that level yet.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Steve must be physical human beings that can replace him and not actual players of his calibre.
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yeah
I just mean we have a number of guys that could be #2 C’s in a couple of years… i.e. Colborne, McKegg, Bozak, Kadri, etc. They might not be now, but there’s people who could fill the role if he leaves.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We don’t need a 2C to replace him we need a 1C to replace him.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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he's not really a 1C
though… on a good team.
He’s a very good 2C… but he isn’t a 1C.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
he didn't
play top minutes on the PP… he didn’t play top minutes on the PK… he was great at Evens but he wasn’t that productive with a man advantage…
his Corsi is great, but his QoC really wasn’t as high as many C’s around the NHL.
If you’re considering him a 1C I think you’re overestimating his value league wide.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying the player that should be replacing him needs to be a 1C and not another 2C on a good team.
He didn’t play top minutes on the PP because he’s being asked to play tough minutes at EV. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him and Kulemin rack up more PK time this year though.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
he led all NHL C's
in Corsi REL… which was great.
But his Corsi REL QoC wasn’t even in the top 30 for C’s who played over 40 games. It was actually 67th.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
his minutes
weren’t that tough at ES… despite belief to the contrary… 67th amongst C’s in the NHL with over 40 gp in Corsi REL QoC.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Was he 67th on the Leafs?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
actually
in quality of competition? yes… boyce had the highest.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
compare his
0.465 to the likes of:
Kopitar: 0.515
Backstrom: 0.548
Krejci: 0.556
Tavares: 0.557
Stamkos: 0.599
E Staal: 0.650
Thornton: 0.664
Zajac: 0.708
Getzlaf: 0.709
M. Richards: 0.752
Ribeiro: 0.800
Stastny: 0.802
Plekanec: 0.895
Carter: 0.896
Backes: 0.907
Marleau: 0.998
Weiss: 1.004
Bergeron: 1.026
Datsyuk: 1.175
Zetterberg: 1.383
Anisimov: 1.412
Dubinsky: 1.436
Those guys all faced tougher competition, and most of them outproduced Grabovski… that’s why I’d say he’s a #2… and not a #1.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait
Is this one normalized across the league as opposed to the other that is just meant more as an in-team ranking?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Corsi REL
is normalized within a team… not across the NHL.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
in comparison
to what other guys on their teams faced… those guys all carried a heavier load of their team’s defensive responsibility than Grabovski.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
in fact
that’s why his Corsi REL rating leading the NHL is sort of misleading… it’s because the other C’s on our team all sucked from a Corsi perspective… it isn’t because he’s astronomically better than the rest of the NHL.
It’s just that the MGK line was SO much better than every other line on the team that they looked amazing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
in terms of
Corsi QoC he actually ranked 27th league wide… so yes… he did face reasonably tough competition, but it wasn’t far harder than what the rest of his teammates faced.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
but it was still
the 2nd hardest on the Leafs… Darryl Boyce had the 3rd highest Corsi QoC in the NHL last year.
I am unclear why we haven’t re-signed Boyce btw… he did amazingly well considering the competition he was facing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
only the Koivu
brothers faced a higher average quality of competition than Boyce did.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
also
Niclas Bergfors played against the 9th hardest competition of any C to play over 40 games last year… and he was still fairly productive.
He’s going to be good eventually… not sure why he’s getting moved around so much.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
BURTCH-TASTIC!!
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Why did you ask that? You knew what it would cause
Nifty Mittens
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 12, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
No we have prospects, young players who MAY be able to replace him. Until they prove they can I’d rather hold on to Grabs.
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
let's remember
2 years ago a lot of people didn’t think Grabovski would amount to much… so let’s not assume we have NOBODY to replace him when we don’t even need to at this point.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
For sure and if Colborne or someone else is knocking at the door in 8 months we’ll be in a different situation. But frankly I don’t see any C prospects in our organization that looks like he can be a legitimate top 2 C in the next 1-2 years besides Colborne (or maybe Kadri if he plays C which looks less likely). I wouldn’t be trading him away right now…
I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!
Especially since we don’t have anybody ready to replace him.
Bingo. Right now we have 0 centres ready to start facing the opposition’s best and outplay them.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Love Grabbo.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
right now
and at the end of this season are 2 different things… we also don’t know where we’ll be by the start of next season… we may make trades… etc. Who knows.
If we’re far out of a playoff spot again, he’s getting dealt methinks.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think that he’s laid down some roots here with his family, is close with Kulemin. These are reasons why guys like to stay where they are.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the biggest thing hurting Grabovski is that he doesn’t play with Phil Kessel. And as long as that it the case, he’ll Burke will always be seen as the #2 guy. Is Burke going to commit 5 years and $25+ million to him?
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Oh no, 2 lines where we have players scoring 30 goals and 60 points. Whatever will we do
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
There are a ton of teams out there who have players in the same position making mad bank
Detroit at C with Datsyuk and Zetterberg
LA at C with Kopitar and M. Richards
Soon to be TBL at C with Vinny and Stamkos
Soon to be NJD at LW with Kovalchuk and Parise
PIT at C with Malkin and Crosby
CHI at RW with Kane and Hossa
etc…..
You gotta keep and pay good talent if you want to win.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
I find people around here sometimes get really stuck on the idea of “first” lines and “second” lines and so forth. I want our team to have the greatest collection of talent it can afford. We can figure out which “line” they play on after that. Grabovski is a highly talented player. Unless he starts demanding something crazy like $6.5 mil for 7 years, Burke should do what he can to make sure Grabbo’s on the Leafs next year.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed!
Boston didn’t really have a 1st/2nd line, just an assortment of guys who can put up 20 goals and 50 points and play a hard game… and Tim Thomas.
Question is: who/what would you trade Grabbo for? Package him with a young d-man and a pick for an elite player? Just picks/prospects? We don’t really need any more top 9 forwards or top four D. Our goalie depth is good so i cant imagine Burke going out and getting a big name goalie.
No trading Grabbo. Grabbo stay.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Silliness
OH NOES TRADE ANYONE OVER 25 BECAUSE BEING YOUNG IS THE BESSSSSSSST
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I never realized there was a poll. My vote is in for “a Maple Leaf”
History. Leafs. Drawing. In no particular order!
My Portfolio
by CanadianMaple09 on Jul 12, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Teams
have multiple $25 million dollar men… look at the Sharks… Thornton makes $7, Marleau makes $6.9, Boyle makes $6.66, Havlat makes $5, and Pavelski makes $4, while Clowe makes $3.625, Burns makes $3.55…
If Kessel ever breaks 40 goals he might get $5.5 or $6 but nobody on the Leafs as it stands is going to be making $6.9 or $7… so having 3 guys at $5-6 mill isn’t really breaking the bank.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Two and a half things that I think are forcing Grabbo out of TO.
First, his age. Right, 28 is not “old man zone,” but it’s not young. And we’re not about to compete next year, or probably even the year after. Is Grabovski a 60 point center all the way to 29? 30? He plays in the tough areas of the ice and gets hit a lot. I’m not sure he can keep this style of play productive through his early thirties. I’m not sure Burke is willing to take that chance. I mean, this is the Leafs roster – sort it by age. None of the 28 year olds are in our long term plans for sure (Orr, Armstrong), and some of the 27 year olds are out already (Sjostrom, Crabb, though it’s probably because they’re not very good at ice hockey, not because of their age). 26 year olds are all gone, and Lupul and Grabbo stand alone as the “old men” in our forward corps. As a team, we got a lot younger at D and G. I don’t know why we would expect to stay old at F. Tie the top 6 to Kessel’s age.
Second, we still don’t have a long term replacement for the #1C slot. It’s pretty clear at this point, that the future Connolly replacement will need to be acquired through trade, as Colborne doesn’t look to have “elite” status, and we didn’t just draft Couturier. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Grabovski moved at the deadline for a long term option at center (maybe a blue chip prospect, like Ryan Johansen, maybe a more developed prospect, like Colin Wilson, maybe in a package for an established center like Stastny (!!1)), with Colborne being brought up to play between Kulemin and MacArthur to finish the year.
And the half: contract demands. I only count it as a half, because anyone who could put a dollar value on what Grabovski will be expecting is lying. If he has a productive year – and I hope he does – both his trade value and his contract demands will be high (the best case for the Leafs and the best case for moving him). If he has a down year, his trade value will be harmed and his cap hit on a new contract will be low (the best case for keeping him, but on a 2-3 year deal, not 5).
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When you look at our depth at C, Grabbo is far and away the best currently. Bozak and Colborne will still develop but they aren’t ready to be top 6 centers and might not ever reach that level of play. Unless one of those two guys shows us that they can play at that level this year, I think trading Grabbo for picks/prospects is a huge step back. Right now he’s our most valuable center, whatever line he’s on, so unless you’re getting a better center back in return, keep him. Even still, I’d be more inclined to trade a package of other players (Colborne, MacA, Kadri, Blacker, Aulie, Gardiner) for a 1C if possible. We have pretty good blue line and top 6-9 forward depth so move those guys instead.
I would be surprised if one of Bozak or Colborne is unable to become a quality second line center at this point. We need to give up assets to get assets. I don’t think there are a lot of teams willing to give up good future players for a package of future bottom six players. Burke has a bit of a history of trading off older, proven assets and moving younger players in to the role even if they aren’t quite ready for it (Stajan, Bozak – Beauchemin, Aulie – Toskala,* Gustavsson – Grabovski, Colborne?)
*Technically not a proven asset, but a known quantity. A quantity known to be a sack of shit.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Trading Grabbo would be a huge step back in the immediate term, but it’s about deciding if he can/will still be a contributing player by the time the team is ready to “sprint”. Already at age 27, do we expect the Leafs to get there within 3 more years? I’d like to think so, but personally I don’t believe it will happen that quickly. Moving him while he’s pretty much at his peak, especially if the return is for young players with significant upside, is an option that more accurately aligns with the trajectory of this team in my opinion.
Before I get flagged and/or banned I’m not advocating trading him. His window may well extend past 30. But that would be my devil’s advocate pitch.
It all depends on what happens during this season. If we’re a playoff team most of the year and our performance is sustainable it makes sense to keep Grabbo for the right price. If we’re clinging to 8th and Grabbo wants too much money we may not have another choice.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
no one is going to ban you for giving your opinion.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Ya I mean, if you got banned for giving a dumb opinion, you wouldn’t have lasted more than 2 minutes.
<3 you
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jul 12, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly. And the minute PPP found out you liked ManU, you’d have been toast.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Find me someone who doesn’t like nutella. It’s awesome
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
You’re a dick
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
The people like me at Fererro who make the stuff and smell it all day long. And who get given cases of it when they get mis labeled or something. You can always tell when Fererro has mistakes because the next day, employees are walking out with cases of Nutella, Rocher’s and Tic Tacs
If you look up "Loyalty" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of a Leafs fan wearing a Todd Gill jeresy looking like he just got punched in the stomach
I had melted Nutella on a Funnel Cake This weekend.
Your move.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
But we are going to hunt you down and kill you like in that crappy Jean-Claude van Damme film John Woo made.
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
Yeah
It’s much cleaner that way.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
who gets to be lance henrickson?
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with part 2, but as far as Burke not wanting older players around why go out and offer Richards a contract then?
I think he did it simply because it was expected. He never put a deal down that was going to be acceptable to Richards.
He might bring in a guy that age when the Leafs are really close but otherwise no deal he’s made has really fit in that same category.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
why go out and offer Richards a contract then?
Like PPP said: for show. 6 years, 42 mil, no frontloading, no lockout insurance was never going to get Brad Richards to Toronto, and Burke didn’t even try to match Sather’s offer from what we know.
This is where a witty signature might go.
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Ok..
Well Bower Power, you have challenged me in the past for throwing out opinions about players, gut feelings, or hunches. I can only assume you hold yourself to these standards?
Where is the proof that Burke did this? As I understand it you are supposed to provide links?
No proof
Now, you explain why he offered such a shitty deal compared to the rest of the GMs?
Feel free to provide links.*
*Of course, anyone can see that there is a difference between asking for proof when you say something that can actually be proven with stats.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Like my opinion about Nazem Kadri’s maturity? That was what I was asked to provide proof on. Can anybody possibly have stats on that?
Nope
And I’m accepting that in the case of Richards’ contract you can be just as skeptical as anyone that would question why you think Kadri hasn’t matured.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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That’s not what he said. He’s saying that you have every right to be as skeptical of my “we offered X and didn’t frontload” as I can be of your “kadri has X character problems”. PPP was actually agreeing with you.
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No
I’m saying you’re free to be as skeptical as they were without trying to be a martyr.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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I do try and hold myself to those standards
"We lost out on the Brad Richards sweepstakes for two reasons," said Burke, who is believed to have offered the player a six-year, $42-million deal. "One, we didn’t offer as much money as other teams and more importantly we didn’t structure the contract like other teams did.
“These deals that are front-end loaded and have small amounts on the back end in my opinion are designed to circumvent the salary cap. I won’t do them, I never have, I’m not going to.” The Leafs are believed to have offered Richards a six-year contract in the neighbourhood of US$42 million.
The Hockey News. Also, TSN covered the issue.
Burke said he would not front load, he said he would not offer one of “those” types of deals. Did he really expect that Sather wouldn’t? (Hint: Sather has done them before.) Did he expect that an offer without lockout protection would really entice a guy who had so many bidders, he pretty much could’ve structured his own deal?
The Leafs “are believed” to have offered 6 years, 42 mil, according to credible, reputable sources I have linked above. Burke says that not only does he not regret offering a front-loaded contract, but that he went into the negotiations without a front-loaded contract to offer, despite being against several bidders who have done that in the past (I could pull up some front loaded contracts from Sather on capgeek, if you’d like proof for that as well).
Since you’d like to tie this to our previous discussion, yes. When you talk about Kadri having behavioral, attitude, or drug related issues, I’d like to see some posts or references to articles where you can show some of what you’re talking about. As I believe I have here.
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Sorry, where’s the part where he said that he had no real intention of signing this player. All I see is a guy who said he won’t do super long term deals?
You said that the Leafs won’t sign Grabbo because of his age. I said the Leafs made an offer on Richards who is over 30. You said they made that offer with no intention of signing him.
I’m asking you to prove your opinion that you have every right to have and shouldn’t need to prove, because you pulled this bullshit on me and I haven’t forgotten about it.
Wear it.
I don’t think anyone has ever died from having to explain why they hold a particular belief. *
*I mean, not that many people.
But seriously, if you don’t want to explain why, just say “I just think so”. BP and I gave some examples for why we think that the deal was made solely for PR reasons. You’re free to accept them or dismiss them if you want.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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I actually fully respect your opinions about Richards. You cold be right. You may be wrong.
Not the point.
Point is that a few weeks ago I had an opinion and had BP very curtly ask me for video evidence and so forth. It was an opinion about Kadri that I have. Since I didn’t run out and provide him links I was rudely spoken to about it.
So I’m just using evidence, his own comments, to prove my point. A point that you are actually agreeing with…
So thanks. We’re good.
I didn’t read the thread. Were you one of the people saying Kadri was a coke/pot head?
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I think it was Kadri being cocky, I could be wrong tho.
by Tickle Me Aulie on Jul 12, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, I bet I can write a post tonight about how cocky Kadri is and one the next day about how humble he is.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
You’re right. And since you know what I do for a living I could give you some great soundbites about players… But nothing I would ever leverage here or type on a forum. So I was a little between a rock and a hard place on this one
Generally when someone knows they can’t share certain information they avoid bringing the topic up to begin with. Making accusations without backing them up isn’t somehow more noble than making accusations and then claiming it wouldn’t be proper to explain them.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No not me on the coke thing… that was full heresay.
I said that from what I’ve seen of him I think he’s still overly cocky and overly-assuming and I think I said immature? I’d have to read back.
Apparently this required proof. And not in a “really, I don’t see it. Was there a particular thing you saw?” kind of way but calling me ridiculous and basically saying I don’t have a clue because I can’t provide links and evidence.
I was offended. Maybe a bit pissed off. So I saw him giving an unprovable opinion here, today, and brought it up. Probably should have left it alone but you know me…
That’s pretty much it. I feel gratified now and can happily walk away from this thread.
From what I remember, you suggested that he was so cocky / arrogant / whatever that his development in the NHL would be stunted, and therefore he needed to be in the AHL. I asked for a quote, a comment, really anything that lives up to the “Kadri is too cocky” stigma. There was nothing. It developed into me satirizing the opinion pretty quickly – it was in the same thread as the “kadri’s a cokehead” one, so having them back to back is probably what struck me.
Then you came here and asked for the same foundation on a different opinion. I provided it. Not sure what you got out of the thread, but if you feel better, I’m really glad for you.
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I said another half season in the AHL might bring him down to earth. Yes, that’s it. Good memory. I think that’s where the conversation went sideways.
I think you said that he’s done everything that he can do in the AHL and I brought up examples of much better players than him who did more in the AHL and stayed down longer.
But all that’s just dialogue that got lost…
I think there are worse things that could happen to him than having him on a line with Colborne for a bit – but it’s certainly not because of any rumored attitude problems. He’s also played well enough that we can bring him up, but again, that has nothing to do with “intangibles” or “character” or being “overly” cocky.
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I asked you what made you feel that Kadri had attitude issues. A quote, an article, anything. Not even a picture of him stealing candy from a baby or anything, just why you felt that way. You can’t slander a person just ‘cause you feel like it. I mean, you can, but it won’t be treated as a valid opinion. It’ll be treated as baseless slander. I’ve continued to provide evidence as to why I think Burke couldn’t have had a reasonable expectation to sign Brad Richards if he was only prepared to give that 42M 6yr, non-frontloaded contract.
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Well, Burke said he wouldn’t do super long term deals. Richards said he was looking for a long term deal (source 1, 2, 3 ). Maybe Burke would’ve signed Richards if Brad had buckled, but when bidding against Sather, I’m not sure Burke ever expected it to be an issue (based on Sather’s contract history, which you can see in my Redden and Gomez links).
Are you looking for me to find something where Burke says “I don’t want to sign Brad Richards?” Because that would kinda counteract the whole “for show” thing. I didn’t say you aren’t allowed to make inferences or conclusions, but that they need to be supported by something. I’m really sorry if you feel that my asking you to show me what you’re talking about is “bullshit,” but I’m starting to think that you’re going to continue to accuse my point of being unfounded, regardless of what evidence I provide (and I have provided evidence).
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Dude, you have an opinion. I actually don’t care enough to make you run through hoops to prove it. It’s fair of you to guess this is what is going on.
Just trying to prove to you that my opinions about Kadri are also unprovable but you didn’t grant me that respect did you?
Maybe you’ll think about that next time and act civil.
“Acting civil” is not the same as taking everyone’s opinion at face value, and asking for someone to provide the reason for their conclusions is not acting uncivil. In fact, it’s part of basic discourse and logical conversation. As is abandoning your convictions when they’re completely and totally unfounded. I have presented to you the foundations for my conclusion. You did no such thing when we were talking about the character and habits of Kadri.
While it doesn’t impact my thoughts of you as a person, your unfounded opinion regarding Kadri’s character simply does not deserve respect. You couldn’t even write a TMZ post off the information that you provided me (there was none), let alone an interesting or faceted opinion. I understand what you’re trying to prove to me, but you’re failing at it. Quite hard. These two scenarios are not alike at all.
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Yeah
this makes sense… it’s just so he can go back to the press/fans and say “hey look we tried”… and people will stop pestering about it. they weren’t ever seriously in the running.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
People were critical of Burke not being physically present to woo Richards, imagine if he had failed to even tender an offer.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re probably right. But it’s quite an accusation to flat out say Burke did all this for show and had no intention of signing him. I would love to see his reaction if somebody walked up and said this to him. You all may be 100% correct. I’m not Brian Burke. But the guy doesn’t seem* like the kind of man do things to appear a certain way. He’s usually pretty blatant and straight from the cuff.
*note this is my opinion from what I’ve seen. I do not have statistical data to prove this. Thank you.
I think he did it simply because it was expected.
Doesn’t seem very declarative.
But the guy doesn’t seem* like the kind of man do things to appear a certain way.
This post by Tom Benjamin is a good look at how Burke is kind of that person.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Sorry for offering another POV on “Burke is a man of his word”.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Don’t link to anything ever when you’re talking to the Muppet. He’ll respect you by taking your opinion at completely face value, and you respect him by taking his at face value. On a similar note, my opinion is that Malkin will be traded to the Kings (e5). Please respect me enough to go and report this as truth.
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You AND Bruce Garrioch – we have confirmation!
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by Say *plan the parade one more time*... on Jul 12, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Because Richards is awesome and not offering a reasonable contract (which IMO he did, 6 years, $42M, ~6.8M cap hit) would have been silly.
If anything his contract was way too reasonable, so reasonable Richards never would have signed it.
It’s funny that this time it was CGY and not Toronto that bid the price up of a UFA.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The best counter-argument I can give for point 1 is that it’s basically no different a risk than you’d have for any other player. Injuries happen. So far Grabovksi’s proven to be a pretty resilient player, and we’re also talking about a guy who is 27 and not 37. I don’t have too many concerns about Grabovski breaking down in the next 2-3 seasons. As for the youth movement thing, I don’t think we’re in a “Logan’s Run” situation where everybody gets exterminated as soon as they hit the age of 30.
As for the second point, we don’t have a long-term replacement for the “Mats Sundin” type of 1C; somebody who basically is guaranteed to be a ppg player and is among the top 10 players in the league. Another season of 55-65 pts establishes Grabovski as a lower-tier 1C and an elite 2C. I don’t understand how getting rid of him while we keep searching for an elite 1C makes this team better. If 2 years from now Joe Colborne is developing into one, or if Burke manages to trade for one, then you push Grabovski down and you’ve got the coveted top 2 centres.
Salary demands are going to factor into everything but remember that the cap’s gone up pretty substantially. If things stay the same then the inflation of the cap will factor into whatever Grabbo gets. If there’s a rollback or something then the market will correct itself.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I don’t have too many concerns about Grabovski breaking down in the next 2-3 seasons
I agree with you about the next 2-3 seasons. But do you think we’re a competitive team in the next 2-3 seasons? That Aulie, Schenn, Kadri, Reimer, and the lot will have matured enough to compete? What about in the next 3-5 seasons? At that point, Grabovski probably isn’t the same number two center.
And I don’t expect us to have a Sundin. I don’t even expect Colborne to develop into a number one center at this point. But I do see him becoming a good #2. And if in the medium-to-long term, we have a rising #2C and a declining one, I’d rather move the declining one while he has high trade value, and can net us a prospect from a “win-now” team who may have #1C potential. In the short run, it absolutely makes the team worse. But so what? In the short run, this team is nothing. I’d sacrifice everything in the short run if it means building well for the long run – that’s what a “rebuild” is.
But regardless, I’m not trying to ship grabbo out for a bag of pucks. There are absolutely a ton of conditions where I’m happy to see him stay a Leaf. But it’s the old mantra: everyone has a price.
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I agree with you about the next 2-3 seasons. But do you think we’re a competitive team in the next 2-3 seasons?
Define “competitive”. Competitive for the playoffs? Absolutely. I think with growth from guys like Schenn, Reimer and Kadri we’re there this year. Competitive for the Cup? Probably 50/50.
What about in the next 3-5 seasons?
I think we’re moving into a time horizon that’s too long to accurately project anything.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Okay. So I can see where we slightly differ. I’d say that it’s unlikely we’re competing for the cup within the next two years, but that many of our assets at this point have us aimed 3-5 years out (though whether or not we’re competing for the cup, you’re right, is tough to project).
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I’d say if I’m right that this year (being Year 1) we’re seriously contending for a playoff spot, then it’s not unreasonable to believe Year 3 we could be a Cup contender.
At any rate, I don’t think keeping Grabovski around for the next 5 years precludes us from getting to that level.
Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Two and a half things that I think are forcing Grabbo out of TO.
First, his age. Right, 28 is not "old man zone," but it’s not young. And we’re not about to compete next year, or probably even the year after. Is Grabovski a 60 point center all the way to 29? 30?
We talk about this a lot and many of us have read Gabe’s work on the matter (peak at 25 and decline by the late 20s, or 30). That being said I have never seen GM’s act that way. They all seem to treat players as in their prime until at least 30. For that reason I don’t see Burke considering his age a problem.
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Grabbo will be 30 in two years. Do you think we’ll be pushing for a Stanley Cup in the next two years? (Feel free to – as clrkaitken mentioned above, he does). Furthermore, I’d guess that Burke wants to be younger, regardless of when he thinks players decline. As I mentioned above, Grabbo and Lupul are the oldest Fs we have who might even have a future here. Burke’s pretty locked in to Lupul, but one of the big things he’s done since he got here is make this team younger at every position.
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it's not like
keeping a couple of guys over 30 means we can’t be “young” at every position.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
once Burke
settles on players he likes, he’s happy to have them… just look at how long he held on to Niedermayer, Pronger, Schneider, Giguere, Pahlsson, O’Donnell, Naslund, Bertuzzi etc.
It’s not like he jettisons everyone once they hit thirty. He just wants them to be the right guys.
I think the 30 wall we’re imagining is in our minds. He often has had over 30 players on competitive teams.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Grabbo's last season with Leafs?
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by CanadianMaple09 on Jul 12, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
If he is willing to stay, give him his money
Who knows maybe he wants out of town, but if he asks for 4-5 mill a year, give it to him. He’s our most talented forward and I would not want to lose him when we’re paying Tim Connolly just as much. Burke can find a way to shed salary somewhere else.
Why hasn't Birky been banned
for even suggesting this sort of gross misconduct?
Where’s that vicious stalking pineapple when we really NEED it?
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by not norm ullman on Jul 12, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
The evolution of grabbo
He’s young and still finding his game, not many players have shown the ability to make effective changes in their game. I’m definitely bias here, but improvements on defense, puck possession, etc…he has shown himself to be a malleable talent.
Let’s see what else he can bring to the table this year and he’ll be worth the ufa denero . I’m personally waiting for a bit of power play touch.
P.s. I’m new, long time reader (barnacle), first time contributor.
by Mogilny's_paycheque on Jul 12, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions
He’ll be 28 next year. That’s neither young nor is it an acceptable time to be “finding” your game. In fact, it’s roughly when players start to drop.
Also, in the words of someone who used to be a chief blogging officer here, “welcome and thanks for joining.”
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he's not young
nor is he “finding” his game.
I’m relatively certain he’s found it… I don’t expect what he does to change drastically… he does a very good job as a #2 C in the NHL… he would be a solid #2 on most competitive teams.
It’s not his fault the team around his line isn’t as good… but he isn’t young and he isn’t looking for anything new to add to his repertoire particularly.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
The evolution of grabbo
He’s young and still finding his game, not many players have shown the ability to make effective changes in their game. I’m definitely bias here, but improvements on defense, puck possession, etc…he has shown himself to be a malleable talent.
Let’s see what else he can bring to the table this year and he’ll be worth the ufa denero . I’m personally waiting for a bit of power play touch.
P.s. I’m new, long time reader (barnacle), first time contributor.
by Mogilny's_paycheque on Jul 12, 2011 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
I said that he would be traded, as I can see him going at the deadline for a million things if we’re not in contention
But I hope he stays forever
Ditto.
I voted for “traded”, but I don’t want that to come to pass in any way shape or form. Unless it’s as the centrepiece in a Crosby trade. That’d be ok with me.
That and a pony.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Jul 12, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
as someone pointed out on twitter, Grabbo’s value at the deadline could be astronomical. Guy producing 60+ points with a cap hit of only 2.9 million?
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Does that net you a 1st round pick from a contender? Probably yes.
Would that be what we should do? Unless his salary demands are outrageous (or Burke doesn’t think he can keep up production for another 3-5 years), I still say keep him.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well if we look at what we got for Kaberle…….
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
A late 1st round pick for a 60-point player who will only be 28 years old would be dreadful asset management. Look at what we got for Kaberle or Beauchemin – any deal for Grabovski needs to start with more than we got for either of those guys, because Grabbo has higher value.
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by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely, if it’s a contender, you’d be looking for one of the best prospects/young roster playe and a draft pick.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec’d for putting my thoughts into words
Nifty Mittens
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 12, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope we’re not in a position come trade deadlin, to be selling off our best players for futures (again). If the Leafs can build on last season at all, we should be looking to add at the deadline.
Nifty Mittens
by MapleLeafMole on Jul 12, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, isn’t it crazy that when I stumbled upon this story there were exactly 84 comments posted!!! I believe that’s foreshadowing something… anyone else!! anybody? no? okay, I’ll shut up.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Jul 12, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions
A Headline I'm looking forward to...
January 2012: Grabovski locked up long term, Komisarek traded for late draft pick!
by Dr_Furious on Jul 12, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Onion news network?
I didn’t think they did leafs coverage.
by LeftNutForAStarCenter on Jul 12, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh late draft pick
I thought I read late 1st rnd draft pick for some reason
by LeftNutForAStarCenter on Jul 12, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
headline I'd look forward to:
January 2012: Grabovski locked up long term, Komisarek traded for late draft pick! a “new car smell” air-freshner!
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Jul 12, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
headline
komisarek is traded for a packet of sugar and peanut butter smeared on a playing card.
by magecanuck on Jul 12, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
if he can be resigned for 4-4.5 million I’d keep him, unless you’re getting a significant return that at worst is equitable to what we got for Kabs
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Uh... maybe?
I think the salient point from this is that when you look at the centers, old and new, they are all sitting on manageable deals for the next two years and based on performance, there is a lot of room for Burke&Co. to pick the players they want plus give time to see if Colborne is going to make top line center.
Yes it could be Grabovski’s last year, but if he plays as well as he did last season, I have trouble seeing Burke letting him walk. Unless he somehow knows there is a better name he can sign in the summer. Which there probably won’t be.
Could this be Mikhail Grabovski's final season in Torono ? SSSSaaaaayyyyyy WaaaahhhhHHHH ???????
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by FLYERROB on Jul 12, 2011 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather ban birky than lose Grabovski. Rec this if you’re down.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
by Chemmy on Jul 12, 2011 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 29 recs
Already suggested this
So either get your big boy pants on and BAN THE BIRKY, or…. we may have to place a call to that other guy… the one that USED to run things round here… ‘cause say what you want about his nocturnal habits and the whole man-imal love thing he had going and whether the media’s played it up too big, dude knew how to SWING THAT BAN HAMMER.
Follow someone else on Twitter.
by not norm ullman on Jul 12, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
sweet. You can do the weekend FTBs from now on then.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Ok, maybe we need some sort of more “customized” ban.
Like, so, you can come back on weekends… to do the FTB’s. ;-)
Follow someone else on Twitter.
by not norm ullman on Jul 12, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
PPP’ll do whatever he wants whenver he wants..even invade our special profile places.
Afraid of no one!
Don’t want to restart that whole religion and sex thing, but I felt personally fairly offended when PPP got snapped doing the man-imal thing.
You know, two legs great, four legs fine… but fins? Jeez. That’s gotta be against even Jared’s otherwise pathetically low ethical standards.
Follow someone else on Twitter.
by not norm ullman on Jul 12, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s not nice to talk about your mom like that
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I figured this act was so perverse that it might enable even you and FLYERROB to find some common ground.
Though the longer I look at it…. the hotter I…. oh never mind.
Follow someone else on Twitter.
by not norm ullman on Jul 12, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
/popcorn.gif
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I do. Someone forgot to put a title on his post containing a .gif.
This is where a witty signature might go.
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Is there someone else I can blame for this?
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by not norm ullman on Jul 12, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Me and Teddy will haunt you if you think I won't become Maple Leafs next year!
Teddy no like pessimism, Habs, and pineapples!
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
by Frag on Jul 12, 2011 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It would be nice to know how Grabbo handles life in the playoffs. Personally I don’t see him as a guy who quits competing when the going gets tougher, but you would love to have at least seen him in a series by now before judging a longer term deal.
That’s why we’re going to wait until next summer to sign him, you’ll get to see him in plenty of playoff games.
by ShahofToronto on Jul 12, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
So you think we’ll trade him before the deadline then :P
by Tickle Me Aulie on Jul 12, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I kind of share that sentiment but I’m kind of leery of too much emphasis being placed on a handful of games.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I think what will have the most impact is our position in the standings. If this team is in a playoff position at the deadline with Grabbo driving production like he did last year it will be easier to sign him as he’d be more willing to stay. If we’re where we were last year and he is still producing it might be worth it to take the younger assets and cut our losses.
The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Jul 12, 2011 3:07 PM EDT reply actions
60pt centres don’t grow on trees. Pay him $4-5M per season, that’s cool by me.
Or trade him, Kadri, Gardiner, MacArthur and a first round pick for Stamkos…
… sorry, I guess that was yesterday’s news…
by Leaf in Habland on Jul 12, 2011 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
The problem is – what if he can get more than that elsewhere? Leino got $4.5 million for one 50 point season. If Grabbo puts up another 60 point season, how much does he command on the open market? $5.5 million? $6 million?
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Imposters amuse me
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 4:01 PM EDT reply actions
What imposter?
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
on Maple Leaf Hot Stove, some guy Posting as JaredFrom London and dispensing my arguments from twitter earlier as his own. this is the second time ive spotted him and he has scattered both times i called him out
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
JaredFrom London on MLHS.
Pretends to be our Jared complete with spelling mistakes, but less funny.
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
Oh
That’s sooooooo lame.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
yeah, he isn’t very good at it
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
pretending to be me is a good gig if you don’t like having a good job
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
at the moment Ill take damn near any full time job
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
nope, but for a full time job that could change
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
ive applied to tons of jobs in both places no dice
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yup, it definetly is
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
An impostor inside of an impostor inside of a dream?
by Tickle Me Aulie on Jul 12, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
YOU SUCK PPP
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Jul 12, 2011 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
PPP rewriting history like he works for the Ministry of Truth.
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
He deleted a picture that leafer put up of ManU celebrating some kinda trophy. I think it said Barclay on it, though not sure what soccer has to do with Star Trek.
Ok everyone
weird random question but…
is it possible for Leaf fans that the worst (best) case scenario is Grabovski plays well out of the gate, but gets injured for most of the year, thus horribly lowering his contract value so we can re-sign him longer term at a reasonable dollar.
That also opens up roster room for the likes of Colborne to play more minutes, we likely improve our rank in the draft order (and we actually have our 1st rounder this year)…. I mean… if we can have the best of all worlds… why not?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I would rather the Leafs make the playoffs and Grabbo have a great year and the Leafs pay him what he deserves.
At some point we have to keep our talent and allow the team go grow together. If Grabbo is a solid 3—something center on a team with a late-20’s Kessel and mid-20’s Kadri, that is fine by me!
by The Muppet on Jul 12, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Bingo.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw 100 comments on this thread in the past hour and correctly deduced that there was a Burtch sighting.
On the topic at hand, though the situation you describe is very benefitial, there’s still the change that he get’s Connolly’d(M. Mihalek’d?) and sucks forever after his injury.
On the Mike Weber bandwagon!
I hate Christian Ehrhoff because he should have been Tomas Kaberle.
well yes
but that’d make the whole point about him contributing in the future moot anyway… so it wouldn’t really hurt OR help.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess
if the best choices are trading him or keeping him it’s all a matter of where you think the window sits.
If goal scorers peak from 24-26… then you want to hit that window with Kessel, Kulemin, MacArthur, Kadri etc. scoring as much as possible.
Right now that means Kessel’s window is 2011-12 to 2013-14… Kulemin’s is 2010-11 to 2012-13… MacArthur’s is 2009-10 to 2011-12…
I mean realistically… next year is when 3 of our top 6 forwards should all be firing on all cylinders… or this year.
If we’re waiting on a window that’s 4-5 years down the line when the likes of McKegg, Kadri, Colborne, etc are all in the loop, then we’re waiting for a while.
I think getting him re-signed on a good 3-4 year deal is a great idea.
I don’t think our window is wide open 4-5 years from now because we have no idea how our current draft picks are going to pan out.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
but this is also what I find so intriguing about actually have orginazational depth. These time line are all starting to overlap, does this mean we’ll be competitive for the near future for the rest of eternity? As competition at camp and throughout the year for any plyer who faulters would seem to dictate .
You’re right about having no solid proof about where our picks or other young aquisitions will peak, or if they contibute at all.
But I have some hope.
"The usefulness of a cup, is in it's emptiness"
by Maniel Darois on Jul 12, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess
we’re ignoring his broken wrist the previous year then?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a front for his 6 month mission to mars.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Absolutely ignoring it.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. No matter what we do, it’s going to be really hard for the Leafs to lose in this situation. Either he does poorly and we sign him for cheap, or he does well and we can trade him at the deadline.
I take that back, actually. The worst thing that could happen would be him Brad Richardsing. We’re in the playoffs at the deadline, keep Grabbo, miss the playoffs, and Grabbo walks for nothing.
But other than that, we turned Greg Pateryn and a second into a usable asset; when it comes to the career of Mikhail Grabovski, we really can’t lose.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Brad Richards’ing would be the worst.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
All these posts
and no mention of the Zigomanis resigning? I’m all for the Grabbo love, but can’t there be some Zigging in here as well?
I'm not a huge fan
of Zigomanis.. but I noted it today while at work… he can cover up for Dupuis when he proves to be too big of a D-bag for the bright city lights of Toronto.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a Grabbo post.
There’s a Zigomania FanShot for Zigtastic Zigabration.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Somehow I missed that post – and I guess the actual breaking of the news of the signing. I guess it just became official today.
Sorry! Sorry, everyone!
I think it got posted when it was rumoured to be done so no one doubled up the news.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I for one hope that Zigomanis doesn’t resign. Especially after he just re-signed.
No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.
by article1 on Jul 12, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice
I also have his jersey. We’re jersey buddies.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Awesome! I’ve worn it around the house a few times, during the draft and such but I can’t wait to break it out for the first game.
When will people learn
buying a player’s jersey is equivalent to asking for him to be traded… this is why it’s ideal to have jerseys for former leafs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Normally I do it but Chemmy, SkinnyFish, Puckurgently and I were drunk and I wanted a jersey.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
you were so proud
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
so you’re saying the leafs are going to trade Phaneuf? or does the jersey having an A and not a C mean it’s safe because it is redundant?
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
I actually know one person who every jersey he’s ever gotten, the player has been gone within like 3 months… and he has like 4 jerseys… I told him years ago to just stop getting jerseys.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
CHEMMY!
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
no
actually… does he do that too? completely different dude.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
top of my head Chemmys collection includes Belak, Wellwood, Steen who are gone and Schenn and Kadri who are still here
i know he has a bunch more
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I bought a Tucker jersey just before his last season with us.
by Nigel Cadbury on Jul 12, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty sure he has a tucker jersey too
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
could have been worse I guess, I was going to get a Kaberle one instead, would have lost him a few years ago instead of Tucker.
by Nigel Cadbury on Jul 12, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I got mine for my birthday, about 2 weeks after he was named captain
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a Phaneuf C and an 06 jersey (with the ugly TML overlap patch) that I need to get made into a Sundin © jersey.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
I have a Sundin with the TML already, I have another blank that I plan in turning into a Kaberle
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If you buy a Leafs jersey with a current player and they get traded it insures you will then have a former leafs jersey.
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Jul 12, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
How dare you.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
by TheBurnward on Jul 12, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Im going to do a fanpost later..
but here are Grabbo’s comparables right now:
Games player > 65
Points: 50-70
Age 25-28
Centers
any list
that features 2 Matt Stajan seasons, 3 RJ Umberger seasons, 2 from Stephen Weiss, 2 from Brooks Laich, and 2 from Jeff Carter is sort of a mixed bag.
You need to refine it more.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
50 to 70 points
is sort of too broad… use ppg, and games played… doing all 3 is redundant.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
just go
0.68 to 0.76 or something.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Here
this might be more refined… I did Forwards instead of C’s… but it’s still an interesting list.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
16 names
none of them on it twice… MacArthur and Grabovski both made the list.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
looking at that list
I’d say he’s worth between $3.5 and $5 mill per year… probably close to $4.25 based on the guys who have re-signed recently… i.e. Clowe ($3.625), Backes ($4.5), Fleischmann ($4.5).
Ruutu is entering the last year of a 3 year deal, and he’s making $4.4 mill this year with a $3.8 cap hit.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Gionta is
making $5 and he’s the Captain of the Habs.
Cammalleri is making $6, but he has a ppg season under his belt (in his UFA year).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Gionta
also had a ppg season, where he scored 40 goals, earlier in his career.
If Grabovski scores 40, or breaks a PPG, he could make $5 mill plus.
But if he stays as a 30-30 type guy, he’s only worth around $4.25 to $4.5 on a 4 or 5 year deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Worth it in salary cap terms, or worth it in terms of what teams will actually give him? There’s no telling what the new CBA will bring, but if Leino’s contract this year is any indication, Grabbo is getting a big pay day if he hits UFA.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 12, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I think
the CBA expiring could put a damper on things personally… but who knows.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Clowe and Ryder?
"Callgirl! She was a callgirl!"
"No Cyril, when they're dead, they're just hookers!"
24/02/11: I was there.
"If you've ever questioned whether or not @dboyce47 is a gamer, well, the answer is as plain as the nose that used to be on his face." - Sean Boulton
shocking eh?
who knew.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Clowe shouldn't be that surprising
He’s had 52 points in 71 games, 57 points in 82 games, and 62 points in 75 games in the past 3 seasons.
Those are pretty solid numbers.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
or 0.73
0.70 and 0.83 ppg.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant that they’re both on it twice.
But I had no idea they put up numbers like that. Clowe for one is a lot better than I thought.
"Callgirl! She was a callgirl!"
"No Cyril, when they're dead, they're just hookers!"
24/02/11: I was there.
"If you've ever questioned whether or not @dboyce47 is a gamer, well, the answer is as plain as the nose that used to be on his face." - Sean Boulton
Yeah
Ryder is kind of under-rated. They’re the best two players ever produced by NFLD.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
if it wasn't for the lockout
he might have had three 30 goal seasons.
23 yrs = 25 G, 63 pts in 81 games (0.78 ppg, 16:00 in ATOI)
25 yrs = 30 G, 55 pts in 81 games (0.68 ppg, 16:10 in ATOI)
26 yrs = 30 G, 58 pts in 82 games (0.71 ppg, 16:17 in ATOI)
27 yrs = 14 G, 31 pts in 70 games (0.44 ppg, 13:15 in ATOI)
28 yrs = 27 G, 53 pts in 74 games (0.72 ppg, 14:55 in ATOI)
29 yrs = 18 G, 33 pts in 82 games (0.40 ppg, 15:18 in ATOI)
30 yrs = 18 G, 41 pts in 79 games (0.52 ppg, 14:29 in ATOI)
So he’s had two 30 goal seasons, and a 27 and 25 goal season. He’s broken 60 points once and had 50+ points on 3 other occasions.
He’s also obviously declining in productivity now that he’s entering his 30’s. His “prime” years were his 23-26 seasons, with another burst at 28… but overall he’s slowing down and playing less as a result.
He’s also only making $3.5 mill now, but on his last contract with Boston he had a cap hit of $4 million. A guy that falls betweent 25/25 and 30/30 regularly is basically a $4+ million player as a UFA.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Your list is invalid because it has Scott Gomez on it twice.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact
he’s on there twice, on both times has the lowest of all the shooting s BY FAR (5.2 and 6.2%, getting 60 and 70 points respectively)
WOW.
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear God Gomez has a terrible shooting percentage
Career he’s only 7.4%, and that’s largely due to 1 outlier year where he shot 13.5 percent
Take that year out and he’s a career 6.7% shooter. For perspective, Dion Phaneuf is a career 6% shooter.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gomezsc01.html
Crazy would be NOT overanalyzing everything.
Lebda-free since July 3.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 12, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Gomez is a passer
he likely shoots from the periphery, and tends to look for passes when he’s in close (when he should be shooting).
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 12, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Was this topic really necessary one year out?
I’m going to author a post that reads:
“Birky, sometime in the future your dog will die.”
gives us something to talk about since we currently lack hockey games.
by Tickle Me Aulie on Jul 12, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
What? No it isn’t. It’s more of a “Birky, one day you are either going to commit to that woman or she’s going to leave you and you’ll be dateless, alone and have to resort to taking matters into your own hand… unless you find another woman” type of thread.
Well from what I saw earlier in the thread, maybe he’s/she’s a dolphin.
by Tickle Me Aulie on Jul 12, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
was
going to type dolphin noises….
but couldn’t figure it out.
"The usefulness of a cup, is in it's emptiness"
by Maniel Darois on Jul 12, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
kekekekeeekeke
I'm building a beautiful statue, to make sure that no one forgets you
by jimmyp22 on Jul 12, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
thanks
every time I tried it was looking like the script for “A Fish Called Wanda”
(Cathcart Towers)
"The usefulness of a cup, is in it's emptiness"
by Maniel Darois on Jul 12, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on my discussion of the comparables above
it worries me more than a bit that one of our “best” players is basically comparable to Ryan Clowe and Michael Ryder.
If Phil Kessel can’t kick his shit up above 40 goals and 70 points this year I’m going to be taking a hard look at why we shouldn’t be paying him as much as we are.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I hope you’re referring to Grabovski and not Kessel when you make the Ryder comparison
by Ben Schnell on Jul 12, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Kessel already has more 30 goal seasons than Ryder has ever had, also one more 60+ point season (2 to Ryders 1)
Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me
by JaredFromLondon on Jul 12, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Or you can actually watch them play the game. Sometimes, you just gotta say..fuck numbers.
"You said you didn't give a f#%k about hockey. And I never saw someone say that before..."
by TheBurnward on Jul 12, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a stupid argument with stupid comparables because
a) Ryane Clowe has never scored more than 24 goals, let alone 36, 30, and 32.
b) Because Michael Ryder didn’t reach 30 goals until he was 25, and Kessel has already done it 3 times now, all under the age of 23.
c) Because are you say so many times, player peak between 25 to 30, where Clowe and Ryder currently are with moderate results. Kessels results already outstrip those two and he had yet to reach his prime per your criteria.
d) We shouldn’t be paying Kessel what we are for his production? He’s 35th in cap hit among forwards, last year tied for 14th in goals, and was 34th in points, playing with little to no help whatsoever for the most part of the year. And he’s signed for 3 more seasons occupying 1 year prior and 2 years of his prime. How is he overpaid?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
obviously doesn’t back check enough….
by Nigel Cadbury on Jul 12, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Or if you're birky
Know how to play on the PP, despite being 7th in the league last year with 12 PP goals.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
I hate guys who don’t know how to play the PP and keep scoring anyway.
I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jul 13, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Kessel had huge PP minutes last season. His PP GF/60 were not impressive. He will always get his share of goals because of his talent, but I think the group as a whole would be better if he were off and double shifted at ES.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Hope he will still be wearing bleu and white.
I think burke will work his magic like he did on clarke and lock this guy up for a bit. Probably something like 3 to 5 years. 4 to 5 mill a year kinda signing.
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