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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Ten More Days, 14 More Cuts

Could Matt Frattin start on opening night?

Jake Gardiner Creates Nice Problem for Leafs - David Shoalts at the Globe and Mail

Jake Gardiner is making like an unwanted guest, and the Toronto Maple Leafs could not be happier.

The Leafs’ defence is supposed to be a closed shop heading into the NHL season, with the seven roster jobs locked up. Training camp would decide who will get the job as the sixth defenceman and who will spend most of his time in the press box – Carl Gunnarsson or Mike Komisarek.

But as the days go by, Gardiner is taking the accompli out of fait accompli. The 21-year-old native of Deephaven, Minn., is the best defenceman at camp. This may require some more deliberation by the Leafs’ brain trust before the start of the regular season, but no one is complaining.

"We smile," said Leafs vice-president of hockey operations Dave Poulin, who was the only big shot around Sunday to announce 14 cuts from the roster. Everyone else, including the players, had the day off.

And those 14 cuts were:

Forwards – Caputi, Zigomanis, Hamilton, Colborne, D’Amigo, Marcel Mueller, Kenny Ryan and Greg Scott.

Defence – Finger, Holzer, Blacker, Simon Gysbers, Juraj Mikus.

Goaltender – Owuya.

No real surprises there. Still have battles on the 3rd and 4th lines, and the 3rd defensive pairing. Should come right down to the wire. More links after the jump.

Star-divide

Leafs Make More Cute, Komisarek Survives

Chemmy breaks down the reason for the cuts and the keeps, and some possible scenarios that might play out for the start of the season.

All I Want for Christmas is Cole, Bob Cole

Hope in the Big Smoke hate Jim Hughson.

Leafs Officially Unveil Third Jersey

Icethetics has the jersey and it's schedule. What's with the lowercase 'n'?

Toront-Oh!

Welcome Adam at Puck Buddys, the blog "For boys who like boys who like hockey."

Player Types: The Defensive Liability

Cam should have just titled this post "30 goal scorers".

The Kadri Conundrum

Mike at VLM talks Kadri and the way his development has been handled.

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Comments

Display:

Hughson is a robot

He sounds like the NHL video game over and over.

by HACKEY17 on Sep 26, 2011 7:13 AM EDT reply actions  

GRRRRRRRRREAT SAVE BY LUONGO!!1

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh boy.
chansler Clayton Hansler
Giving the team more depth down centre. RT @TorontoMarlies: #Marlies announce the club has signed forward Brayden Irwin to an AHL contract.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 8:43 AM EDT reply actions  

AHL contract. Whoop-de-do.

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

hes not a bad AHL player.

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

WHY ISNT MY NAME BOLD AHHHHHHHHH

i dont like change,
i dont like change,
i dont like change,
i dont like chang,e
!

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed

It was actually an html glitch in the post that was screwing up the comments.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

thank goodness

next thing you know I’m going to have an avatar

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not disappointed. It’s just mock-excitement.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

But are you disappoint?

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

At least it’s not an NHL one. We were almost due for an SPC freakout.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah yes, the annual rite

http://www.capgeek.com/reserve_lists.php?team_id=4&year_id=2011

So assuming we slide those three contracts back to the CHL, we’re at 48. Meh.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would be less mad about the actual “wasting one of our precious 50 SPCs” this time, as much as “what the fuck do the Leafs see in this kid that he deserves an NHL contract”

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why were we allowed to go to 51?

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

There must be some type of temporary overage allowance in the summer, like the cap.

Philly was over too. I’m sure a number of teams were.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Temporary overage as long as you have sliding contracts as part of the 50+.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Slide-eligible contracts aren’t part of the 50-contract limit.

Original member of the Mike Weber bandwagon!
To make up for lost time, the Sabres signed six seasons worth of front-loaded cap skirting contracts in one week.

by Ubiquitous on Sep 26, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, they aren’t yet because we still have time to slide them.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I never knew that. Interesting.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

They only start counting under the limit at the exact moment they are no longer slide-eligible for the year.

Original member of the Mike Weber bandwagon!
To make up for lost time, the Sabres signed six seasons worth of front-loaded cap skirting contracts in one week.

by Ubiquitous on Sep 26, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats good to know. I was annoyed when Broll got signed this year because I didn’t realize that.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds good to me

He has an AHL contract so we have some vets in the A, and we don’t have to worry about Burke/wilson being an idiot and calling him up for a “big body”

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone else find it interesting...

that the Leafs have handled Aulie’s and Kadri’s development in completely different ways? Aulie played half a season in the AHL with the Flames organization before being traded and getting hurt. Then he was up and down last year (from what I understand he was not the Marlies best defenseman last season) before settling in as Phaneuf’s partner for most of the second half. Yet heading into camp this year, it looks at this point like he is being given the #1 LD spot on the team, a role that he probably isn’t ready for. On the other side of the equation, Kadri has been one of the better Leaf forwards in camp. Yet there has been no indication (again, at this time) that the Leafs are willing to “punch a hole” for him in the line-up, even though he was clearly the Marlies best offensive weapon last year.

Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.

by birky on Sep 26, 2011 9:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Agree completely. The only way they are similar is they both can completely aggravate with their play

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Total agreement here. Although I will admit to really liking Aulie last year, I’m not being filled with the same good vibes so far this pre-season. It’s almost like the Leaf Brass have an Aulie hangover from last year in the way they’re being so bullish about him.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

And I would have thought turnovers and defensive issues would be more problematic for a defenseman than a winger. Yet here we are.

Come get your duds in order...

by The Bag on Sep 26, 2011 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

In some ways I get the concept of treating different players in different ways

Some players respond better to positive reinforcement, others to negative reinforcement, some need to be given opportunities to prove themselves, and some need to force their way in.

That being said, I’m not sure the ways that the Leafs have specifically dealt with these two players was correct for their own circumstances.

I see no reason why Aulie has been given so much ice-time and being paired with Phaneuf.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe thrid pairing, handle some PK time if he’s up for it.

I think the Leafs just can’t get over his size and reach. He could be a Hal Gill type player, but he has to put it altogether. Better speed, balance and pivot. Better with the puck on his stick.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

One reason may also be that we are so weak on the left side.

Some people have been mentioning that mgmt might not be high on Gunnarsson (not sure why? not truculent enough?), and our other “natural” LDs are Liles, Lashoff.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gunnarsson really deserves that first line LD spot with Phanuef. Liles can play first PP with Phanuef.

Gunnar
Liles
Aulie

Seems to be the depth on the left side.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

And really the only reason Liles isn’t on top is because of the extremely likely pairing with Schenn, since he’s obviously the best on the Left side.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right. If him and Phanuef weren’t so inclined/expected to jump into the offense, they’d be playing together.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah him and Phaneuf may even play together.

"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"

by DoubleDion on Sep 26, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

U before E, except after N

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

It just rolls off the tongue.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

it’s beutiful

"Wham...Wham...Kabam...Kabam... A double kabam! And it's a double dion!"

by DoubleDion on Sep 26, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know if that's a match made in heaven.

Kaberle and Phaneuf didn’t exactly click, and I think a big part of it has to do with how much Phaneuf roves all over the ice. Phaneuf needs a reeeeally conservative partner in order to stay out of trouble.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Man imagine if Komisarek didn’t suck and was instead that stay-at-home dman Burke thought he was getting.

That’d have been nice.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

But Aulie is 6’5" and Kadri isn’t. You can’t teach size. Bigger is always better.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

You appear to have replied to the wrong chain.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was using the iFail app.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe so, but Aulie is pretty huge, can’t deny that.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hence the love affair

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

So is Brayden Irwin.

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can HE play left D?

Not liking the Habs since 1959.

by not norm ullman on Sep 26, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Damn, what crazy dream world do you live in?

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sigh.

Even if he was, he should have only been paid roughly what Beauchemin got. Probably even less, given his lack of offensive output.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

it has been over an hour now and I have yet to be able to form that image

Bam Bam.- digga digga damm

by Eterrible on Sep 26, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gunnarson is relatively conservative.

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

that the Leafs have handled Aulie’s and Kadri’s development in completely different ways?

Yes. Not sure why Aulie is being handed a spot so readily. I guess “Body of work” and all that crap. I dunno, put Gustavsson and Giggy behind him for 30 + games last season, and I doubt his numbers look as decent.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

as good a reason as any

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

What they have in common actually worries me.

Mirtle pointed out on Twitter that Burke & Co. seem to associate these players with winning, since they were a part of the group that performed well at the end of the season. Of course, most of us around here would attribute most of this success to Reimer’s great start, and I find it strange that this seems to be overlooked by the Leafs front office.

Kadri looks like he is ready to repeat, with a PDO of 1001, while Aulie looks set to “slump” with a PDO of 1024, since he got an on-ice SV% of .938.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

most of us around here would attribute most of this success to Reimer’s great start

And team shooting of 10% after Jan 1…. but mostly Reimer.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right, and particularly so in Aulie’s case.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya that breakout of sv% of each defenseman while they were on the ice and shots against was a bit telling.

Maybe the Leafs are thinking that his defense helped cause the increase in sv%…. when really the two concepts are co-entangled.

I hope that’s not the case. Maybe RW and BB just really like the kid’s hustle or some crap.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

If kadri was a star for the marlies, then maybe it’s about drawing fans to marlies games.

if management feels that they have a pretty good 3rd line then maybe they’ll send him down to get some early season sales up and then recall him in case of injury,

Reasining helps me with matrh!

by elseldo on Sep 26, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

then maybe it’s about drawing fans to marlies games.

I somehow doubt this. I don’t know if Leafs have ever cared about the draw to the Marlies.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

heaven forbid that Marlies sales is a reason for picking the leafs line up

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Off topic but,

I also don’t understand how Gunarsson is still being talked about like he’s on the bubble. To my eyes, he’s been very solid this pre-season. I never feel nervous with him handling puck for some reason. I’d put him ahead of Franson and Aulie and obviously MK.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s not Canadian.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn’t acquiring by Burke.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. Gunnarson has proven himself to be a serviceable NHL defenseman, and he can put up some points for you.

by Goosemonster on Sep 26, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t even get me started. Thats it I am changing my tagline.

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Done

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

As I said yesterday, I think they’re over-valuing size and strength generally with their roster decisions. Gunnarsson at this point is significantly better than Aulie, but because he’s not a big, noticeable guy, Burke and co. aren’t willing to treat him the same. If a guy of Gunnar’s size played the way Aulie has played he’d have already been sent to the Marlies.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

He either deserves gets a shot to play quality minutes or will be traded. Would hate to see him go because he has “bite you in the ass trade” written all over him.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the best answer is Ron Wilson.

From Jonathan Willis at the Leafs Nation:

In any case, one of the statistical measures that Wilson consults is each player’s goals against/60 – in other words, their on-ice goals-against-average.

Aulie’s numbers are really, really good. Looking at just those numbers, we might come to the conclusion that he is the best shutdown defenseman on the team – particularly given the role he was playing

Aulie lead the team in GAON/60. Further to that both Franson and Liles were first and second respectively on their teams in GAON/60. Tough to say how much stalk we can put in it, but it would be one reason why they favour Aulie.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Any stat that shows Franson being a better defender than Weber and Suter is probably not the most reliable . . .

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, but I’m just saying that the reason might not be " because he’s not a big, noticeable guy". It might be because the stat the coach likes to use ranks Aulie higher.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s certainly possible, but when looked at as a total body of work on the part of the Leafs’ brass (seeming to favour Frattin over Kadri, selecting Biggs, etc.) it seems as though they place a lot of emphasis on size over skill.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah it’s a real shame how Kessel, Grabovski and MacArthur get no ice time.
No doubt Burke values size, but he has acquired plenty of skill players while GM.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Liles is like 6’4 isnt he?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

That was sarcasm by the way everyone

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was?

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t say the only thing they care about is size, I said I think they give it too much, er . . . weight.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, but you said size over skill. And generally speaking it has not proven to be true. Our top two scoring lines are pretty un-truculent.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Burke has consistently stated his desire to add size to them. And there haven’t really been any larger players who theoretically even could have played, say, Bozak’s minutes last year who weren’t really obviously awful (Christian Hanson, for example).

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh sure, but I think saying he values one at the expense of the other is incorrect.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t get what everyone is talking about what Burke says about size being such an important priority of a player and in a sense over skill (which I think is not true) but even if so, he is also on record saying he has nothing to do who the coaches ice as a team, the players that play, play because of the coaches decision; he has no say in that. So based on that, wouldn’t it be Wilson saying who plays where and when?

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Sep 26, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I liked seeing that “behind the draft” video, because at one point he stops and talks to another GM (I forget who) and talks about his acquisition of Liles…

“eventually you have to go out and get skill players”

I couldn’t help but think to myself: Duh?

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

To me the craziest part is that the most controversial move of his time as Leafs GM was to move Heaven and Earth to acquire what people call a “lazy” “one-dimensional” “soft” “intangible-lacking” skill player. And people still say that he values size of skill.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

The people like to play the passport card on that particular transaction

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha, oh yeah I forgot about that. Kessel is American so none of that other stuff matters, right.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

that one trumps truculence and size in a lot of people’s eyes.

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Frattin over Kadri,

I dont think this is because of size…

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also who says they prefer Frattin over him?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I said “seeming” for a reason, but the fact that Frattin is even in the discussion for that 3rd line LW slot despite Kadri having looked significantly better in the pre-season (and in the past) tells me that there’s something about Fratting other than his skill level that they like.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Frattin’s 3 years older and an RFA.

Boom; difference’d

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

The fact that Kadri is still making the same mistakes he has at his previous 2 training camps comes to mind.
I wouldn’t say Kadri has looked significantly better either.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

We don’t even know what is going to happen yet. Maybe they both stay.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

EXACTLY.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I guess it’s decided then. We’ll all refrain from posting comments about the Maple Leafs in the comments section of a Maple Leafs web site.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

No one is saying that, however saying things like Burke seems to favour Frattin over Kadri due to size" is completely false. Back those comments up dude.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

We’re not saying that. Just that we don’t know one way or the other and need to remember this is all speculation.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Kadri had a bad bad game on Saturday, and is for sure still doing some dumb moves with trying to toe and drag, and ends up giving up the puck a lot.

I do think he looks a lot faster and more confident, 2 things he looked bad at last year. Created a few really good scoring chances too.

Maybe he’s at the point where Leafs have to take the good with the bad until he figures it out – is that easier to work on at the AHL or NHL level? Maybe he can still get away with that toe and drag stuff in the AHL and needs an NHL wake up call.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

But you have to read on…. if RW is only looking at GAON/60 and not on-ice sv%…. then he’s an idiot.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes because if he doesn’t use a stat you like he is an idiot.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not what I’m saying, I’m saying using one stat without the other isn’t looking at it in the proper context

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mean it’s kind of like looking at +/- and picking your best defenseman only on that stat.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reading comprehension FTW

In any case, one of the statistical measures that Wilson consults is each player’s goals against/60 – in other words, their on-ice goals-against-average.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya I read it, but hopefully that isn't the only ranking he's using to decide lineups/pairings.

It could very well be a reason he’s pairing him with Phaneuf though – if he correlates the GAON/60 highly with a player being a “defensive defenseman”

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t seem to understand the meaning of the phrase “one of the”, which means, not the only one.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alright alright, pile on this morning. I misinterpreted his original comment.

Apologies everyone.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

It seems kind of short-sighted to assume that someone that’s gone ON THE RECORD as being a big proponent of statistical analysis uses a single source of data to make his decisions.

In the words of GOB Bluth, Come on!

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

WAYFO?!?

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at goals scored against our d-men per 60 minutes and ignoring that Aulie played most of his time in front of .938 goaltending while Gunnarsson got .890 or whatever would be pretty dumb.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 10:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Maybe he has data further back than that. Who knows. Just saying that their decision might not be just because Aulie is bigger and more noticeable.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I always wonder if the coaches/management are using a different / larger / (better?) set of data than we have publicly.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

They most certainly are.

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by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

That makes it harder to do apples to apples judgement/analysis/critique of the Leafs’ judgements/decisions.

Maybe Aulie is really better on a lot of different metrics.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or has consistently lead his teams in GAON/60 at a few levels.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s entirely possible, but the stats that we have available to us (as well as “just watching the game”) say that Aulie is not a good choice for a top pair defender.

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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Like team winning %

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by AM18 on Sep 26, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Ron Wilson would as he’s stated it’s something he’s been doing for 10 years or so.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I read further. I’m just saying that’s what Wilson thinks.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why? Why can’t SV% be affected by how a defenseman plays, rather than the other way around?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ignore this whole set of comments, it turned into a misinterpretation clusterfuck

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

it’s still one of my pet peeves. somehow everything comes back to SV%, as if what 5/6 players on the ice are doing is just window dressing.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya that breakout of sv% of each defenseman while they were on the ice and shots against was a bit telling.

Maybe the Leafs are thinking that his defense helped cause the increase in sv%…. when really the two concepts are co-entangled.</blockquote>

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

context!

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

It may be theoretically possible, but given that guys like Weber and Chara are rarely at/near the top of their team in on-ice SV%, it seems like it’s pretty unlikely that the effect is noteworthy.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

why? are Weber and Chara not good defensemen?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

If players we evaluate as good defenders don’t lead their team in on ice save percentage why would we think that d-men positively impact save percentage?

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s my point. They’re excellent defenders, but their team-mates often have better on ice SV% than they do.

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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Non-facetious question:
Maybe it has something to do with the level of competition Chara and Weber see?

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by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

It absolutely does, but the real factor here is that goals are infrequent enough events that SV% for one player isn’t a large sample.

If a d-man played forever in front of one perfectly consistent goaltender we might see the effects, but goalies change day to day and period to period, etc.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shea Weber’s on ice SV% last year – .921
Cody Franson’s on ice SV% last year – .943

Two years ago:
Weber – .912
Franson – .945

Either Franson is an amazing defender, or there probably isn’t a very strong ability of defenders to affect SV%.

I’m at work right now so I don’t feel like going through a whole bunch of teams, but you can find examples like that around the league.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotchya.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

So can a defenseman influence save percentage? Probably. But it’s probably not a significant enough effect for us to notice.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Got it, too erratic it track accurately, not a large enough effect to say it’s significant.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

but SV% influences GA/60?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you doing dumb guy for a day?

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

a day?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

it’s a question in response to the assumption that if Wilson only looks at GA/60 without SV%, then SV% must be related to GA/60.

But if we’re saying the sample size is too small to give a shit about how a defensemen impacts SV%, how the fuck can we care how SV% affects GA/60?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

replace the word ‘assumption’ with ‘criticism’ for that statement to make sense.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the argument is that the SV% Aulie played in front of is unsustainable for a guy playing top pair minutes over the long term, so that once the SV% falls back down to Earth, his GA/60 will not look so impressive any more.

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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

that makes more sense, but I don’t think that is the argument. Or at least not all of it.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because 5 peoples’ stats being heavily influenced by one player does not mean that one player is then heavily influenced by each of the 5 guys individually. It doesn’t have to work both ways, and in this case, it probably doesn’t.

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by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

A guy is on the ice for what, 5 shots a game against? Times 40 games for a guy like Aulie? 200 shots.

And SV% is what’s making his numbers look good?

But the reverse relationship doesn’t hold? Sure, that makes perfect sense.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

A guy is on the ice for what, 5 shots a game against? Times 40 games for a guy like Aulie? 200 shots.

And a goalie is on for all of the shots. So if the goalie is seeing 25-30 shots and saving 91.5% of them, is it more likely that he’s a 91.5% netminder, or that he’s 90.5, and when Joe Defenseman is on the ice for 5 shots a game, he’s a 92.5%?

I don’t think defensemen can significantly impact to SVP. I think even a good defenseman is probably only taking away one to two high quality scoring chances per game, which, yes, makes an impact, but probably not an appreciable one, or one that we could accurately credit to any specific d-man. I also think that team systems probably make an impact, but haven’t quite figured out how to look into it further.

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by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think even a good defenseman is probably only taking away one to two high quality scoring chances per game, which, yes, makes an impact, but probably not an appreciable one

But boy do goalies appreciate it.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

A goalie’s SV% is what a goalie’s SV% is. But the argument that Aulie benefited more from his on-ice SV% is absurd, because either (a) Aulie directly impacted that SV% or (b) he had no impact on SV% in which case it becomes an irrelevant measure of his performance.

I think the REAL argument is that Aulie played all of his games in front of Reimer, and so looks better than others (who also played more in front of Giggy and Gus). I think the only way to evaluate this is to look at how other D-man compare in only those games in which Aulie played.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the REAL argument is that Aulie played all of his games in front of Reimer, and so looks better than others (who also played more in front of Giggy and Gus)

So what you’re saying is that Aulie’s statistical performance benefitted from playing in front of a goaltender with a higher save percentage, but that Aulie probably wasn’t the reason Reimer’s save percentage was so high?

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by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not saying that, I’m saying that’s what the argument is.

It’s a different argument than saying that “A affects B directly, but B has no impact on A”.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW, GA/60 and on-ice SV% are correlated .90 (last season).

Clearly the two things are related. The question is, is it one directional or two?

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

contrast that to CorsiON, which is completely unrelated to SV%, and marginally (0.25) related to GA/60.

Actually, if there’s anything to suggest that D have NO effect on SV%, that might be it. How many shots directed at the goalie while a D-man is on the ice is completely unrelated to SV%.

But, it only modestly tells you how many goals will go in, which kind of makes me question it’s legitimacy as a statistic.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

it’s a question in response to the assumption that if Wilson only looks at GA/60 without SV%, then SV% must be related to GA/60.

It’s frankly kind of a dumb assumption that Wilson is ONLY looking at a single advanced statistic

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

If SVP is affected by the players in front, any significant impact is more likely at a team or systems level much more than an individual defenseman’s level. The only individual metric that I can think of which would seriously want to consider impacting SVP, would be scoring chances.

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by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear ya.

Goalies do love to talk about how their d-men are “keeping shots to the outside” and “clearing rebounds/bodies in front of the net”

I know for me it’s not always just lip service. It seems like some D do a better job at preventing scoring opportunities than others. Whether or not it’s significant is another question.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

it can

in the short term… over the long term the different players on the ice amount to a lot of noise around the results your goalie is capable of generating year to year.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Sep 26, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, Ron

Don’t you think Reimer played a large role in those numbers?

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by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t often complain about the tenor of the conversation. But man sometimes people are hard to please.
“The Leafs like Aulie because he is bigger, more noticeable, North American, and Burke traded for him……

“Well it might be because he lead the team in a stat that Ron Wilson uses to guide his decisions.”

“That’s dumb! That stat is useless!”

 

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That’s not what I was saying… sorry I’m being misinterpreted in the worst ways this morning.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

No not anyone in specific. More just the general flow of conversation.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s dumb if he is using that stat without context. Aulie played in front of better goaltending than guys like Gunnarsson, as Chemmy pointed out above, so of course he’ll have a better GAON/60.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
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by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

What evidence do we have to suggest he’s using them in isolation? Or that they didn’t adjust for goaltending. Maybe they have the stat for both guys in front of Reimer and like Aulie’s better.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s not what I’m arguing. If he takes the stat into context, I’m fine with that. It’s if he makes up his lines and pairings due to using statistics without context that would worry me.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t even think that they want to pair Aulie with Phaneuf just because he has size. I just hope that Wilson doesn’t misuse stats. I may not be his biggest fan, but I think he’s smarter than that.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

My more general point was the people here love to argue, which is fine. But sometimes a factual statement is just a factual statement.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

And the truth shall set you free

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can’t handle the truth

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by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

True dat!

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Keith Aulie leads the Leafs in “truthiness” – that’s why he’s a first pairing blueliners. The rest of the stats people use are dumb.

RIP WB
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Sep 26, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll go with nhlcheapshot and say I misinterpreted the quote as well. Apologies.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I admit that I misinterpreted your first comment quoting John Willis – it seemed like you were saying RW only uses that metric in isolation.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe he’s backed up by the scoring chance data. I can’t remember how Aulie did but I’m going to look for those articles.

by stevesmith19 on Sep 26, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I recall it was “well”.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

At even strength, he didn’t fare so well:

http://theleafsnation.com/2011/5/8/scoring-chances-at-even-strength-2010-11-final
http://theleafsnation.com/2011/7/12/high-quality-scoring-chances-2010-11-at-even-strength

Slightly better with respect to net presence chances:

http://theleafsnation.com/2011/7/20/net-presence-scoring-chances-during-even-strength-play

Of course he played against tough competition with lots of defensive zone starts, so his results aren’t surprising. Maybe he’s comparable to other defensemen who played in similar situations and who saw drastic improvements the next season.

Not to appeal to authority but it’s almost a given that Wilson et al have access to way more data than any of us here.

by stevesmith19 on Sep 26, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

In any case, one of the statistical measures that Wilson consults is each player’s goals against/60 – in other words, their on-ice goals-against-average.

Then he would really like Mike Weaver.

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by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Komisarek for Weaver e4

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by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d do that based on the difference in salary alone.

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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d trade Komisarek for a bag of pucks, much lower salary.

by Goosemonster on Sep 26, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I knew it was just a matter of time before he came up.

by Self Destructive Zones on Sep 26, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Further to that both Franson and Liles were first and second respectively on their teams in GAON/60

Stepping away from the whole “single stat” silliness, it’s interesting that this is true – you wouldn’t necessarily expect Liles to lead COL in GAON. They had some atrocious goaltending last year too.

Furthermore – if RW does like using this stat – does his word carry a lot of weight into trade / signing decisions?

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I mis-remembered Liles ranking. He was third worst on the team. But this is more for defensive defensemen anyway.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah okay. Was wondering – Liles being best GAON/60 would have been extremely surprising.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Franson had a GAON/60 of 1.75. Ryan Suter’s was 1.81.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm assuming it is, but are all these figures at 5v5?

I have to assume Suter faced a lot tougher competition with Weber on the 1st pairing as well.

Also, Suter plays 25min/night (!) compared to Franson’s 15 min/night. Didn’t realize the dropoff in ice-time was so substantial.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes 5v5, again context is key. But by that particular metric Aulie was the Leafs best D, so it makes sense that Wilson would like Franson.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

especially when his previous option was Lebda.

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Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lebda was actually one of the worst in the league by GAON/60.

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Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is my shocked face.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well one of the statistical measures that I like to consult is a teams GAA. Looking at Toronto’s numbers we might come to the conclusion that that Wilson is not the best judge of defensive ability

Bam Bam.- digga digga damm

by Eterrible on Sep 26, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

or that he has had shitty defensive defensemen to work with?

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And shitty goaltending.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

and shitty defensive forwards

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

and shitty defensive coaches.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

and bad breath

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

and ugly suits

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah, his suits are usually nice, but he isn’t very good with the shirt/tie combo

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

there we go, thats what i mean

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

and his..stupid…face.

Right? Guys?

Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10

Follow Me On Twitter!

by thenumber14 on Sep 26, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

and his stupid dual citizenship

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I definitely do

My question is do we think this was done because:
1) One was a draft pick while the other was a trade
2) One is a forward while the other is a defenseman
3) Some factor I am missing

Or some mix of all 3

I am drinking the Kule-aid!
Certified Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I personally think the one intangible we overlook is personality and how staff/peers interact with a player. We see the gameplay and watch the interviews but they spend the other 23hrs of the day with them. Some people you just love while others rub you the wrong way.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

But does that change their on-ice play?

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

It doesn’t. If computers were selecting the team advanced stats would dictate who plays were. Humans are emotional beings that allow other factors into the process.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hear ya…A bit of subjectivity in the selection process, based on personality.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

From the Toront-oh! blog
The upcoming season will naturally bring out the worst in us.

You said it.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 9:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, I worry for my liver, too.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why does everyone hate Gunnarsson?

Wilson said he’s been one of the team’s best defensemen so far. So why is his name continually utterred alongside Komisarek’s?

http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com

by Curt S on Sep 26, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I would imagine it’s partly media speculation. But it’s also the fact that we assume Aulie is getting paired with Phaneuf, and Liles with Schenn, so at best Gunnar becomes a 3rd-pairing guy.

Come get your duds in order...

by The Bag on Sep 26, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

It all curls back to the assumption that Aulie plays first pairing. I think that Gunnarsson should take that slot personally.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

ditto

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just said the same thing above. I don’t get it either.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think anyone around here hates Gunnarsson.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Define everyone.

If you’re referring to pairings, I think it is a matter balancing strengths. I question whether or not the Leafs actually have a defined top four but seven guys who they need to match out to make the best three pairings they can. I wouldn’t be surprised to see juggling, particularly with Aulie, but I would guess people would prefer to see Aulie with Phanuef than with Komisarek. Gunnarson just pays the price, but may still get the minutes if Komi isn’t absolute garbage.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or maybe eight guys if they don’t send Gardiner back, but I bet they will.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Media seems to try to create a stir like he’ll end up on the team, but unless Burke trades some one, I don’t think so.

In the 1st intermission interview on Saturday night, Burke reminded everyone that “I like my guys to spend some time in the American Hockey League”.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed – it is a preset media controversy if the Leafs defense (or offense from) struggles to say “why did they send Gardiner back? he was great for them in pre-season” ignoring the argument that it was just preseason.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

why did they send Gardiner back? he was great for them in pre-season

Oh man if we had kept Kadri after that 1st pre-season (2 years ago) it would have been a fucking disaster.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

What? You’d think it’d be worst than the “Kadri’s a bust, start Frattin” we have going on now? ;-)

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

eBench Komi and play Aulie with Franson.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy hell. Photoshop reaches new heights:

http://twitter.com/#!/bruce_arthur/media/slideshow?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fnwfpvmj

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Ah, crap.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

There.

http://a.yfrog.com/img860/9649/fpvm.jpg

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

My first and only thought: Jim Lahey.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s like Lahey and Randy’s grown son.

by Jo4nny on Sep 26, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ayup.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

So that’s how you get your town named “Hockeyville” – throw an absolute bender for McLean.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why did someone photoshop Ron MacLean’s head onto Brad Marchand’s body?

by lucc on Sep 26, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was going to post that. It was on the Chive too.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Craig Simpson – A man who publicly refused the Toronto Maple Leafs in his draft year. Simpson gives off an air superiority in his commentary, and is a disciple of the repeat the same things over and over again school. We get it Craig, passing lanes. It would be a benefit if someone informed him that the Leaf fans have forgiven him for not wanting to come here.

That sounds an awful lot like Tim McCarver, a terrible baseball sportscaster, the more I think about it. The guy sounds like a broken record, which is extremely irritating. It gets to the point where I just want to mute the games (It’s exasperated by the fact that you have to hear McCarver repeat himself with that empty, soulless windbag named Joe Buck who can’t even call one of the best plays in Super Bowl history right).

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

By the way I cant get Youtube right now, which play is that?

by samspade on Sep 26, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eli Manning to Tyree

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 26, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

We might have exceeded its allotted bandwidth.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not this year.

Most folks are predicting we’re going to miss the playoffs again, and I can’t say I disagree.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I……….?

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think JP thought the question was about hope, the emotion. Not the blog.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ahhh, right. Yeah, obviously haven’t been there in a while.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like you. You’re funny.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Skinny was making a joke that the Hopeful in Toronto had exceeded their alotted hope bandwidth.

Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.

by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

We need to upgrade the hope servers.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Will this do?

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

smite….?!

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reply fail?

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

JP is teeming with pessimism.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Bills have missed the playoffs for 6 yrs and are off to a 3-0 start playing some exciting ball. The Leafs will draw inspiration and follow suit

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 10:45 AM EDT reply actions  

Aren’t the Bills known for choking, though?

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

4x in the Super Bowl, same as Leafs in the Conference Finals

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the X-Files taught me anything, it was that Buffalo will never win anything. CIA is on it.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha yeah, that was funny. Not sure why the smoking man had such a hate on for the Bills.

by Self Destructive Zones on Sep 26, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I believe they edited out the line “Buck Fuffalo” but I could see him saying it.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I always thought it was the smell of the city. I’d choke up too.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Armpit of America

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don’t like the smell of cat food?

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

My cat’s breath smells like cat food

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thaaaat’s what that smell is!

by Self Destructive Zones on Sep 26, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Leafs lines according to Tony Ambrogio

Lupul-Connolly-Kessel,
MacArthur-Grabovski-Kulemin,
Kadri-Bozak-Armstrong,
Rosehill-Boyce-Crabb
Frattin-Dupuis-Orr

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

PLAYOFFS!!!!1

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Man Wilson likes Frattin so much he has him with Orr so Orr can police him, like Semenko and Gretzky

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That’s pretty generous of him.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t knock Cementhead. His ass deflected a dozen Gretzky shots into the net two seasons in a row. Frattin can do the same with Orr

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha this made me laugh

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Lombardi was cleared for contact? I just assumed that would mean he would be playing on a line at practice.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

15 forwards woooooooo

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent – no team will see the “roll five lines” strategy coming.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wonder when Lombardi will play.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 26, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’d prefer Lombardi and Brown to miss the first 10 games of the season so they can evaluate what we already have. Having them in the mix will only complicate things.

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lombardi and Brown are wearing grey jerseys, so they’re cleared for contact but don’t have a line yet.

I still think my 3rd and 4th line able to score idea is good.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Make a whole of a lot more sense than having 25% of the roster being useless fodder.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is that the 3rd and 4th line idea that goes like this:

Brown-Lomb-Arm
Kadri-Bozak-Frattin

or something like that?

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Those six guys, yeah.

Bozak and Armstrong should probably be together. Frattin and Kadri aren’t great on D so I’d split them up.

Kadri-Bozak-Armstrong
Brown-Lombardi-Frattin

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would love this, but sadly I think Orr and Brown are pretty much locks on the 4th line.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think in a perfect world we would all love to see that line up Chemmy. Orr and/or Rosehill will be playing though

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but again, why put all of the best possible players on the ice?

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 26, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can’t they just buyout Orr, already? I mean, it’d just be like they decided to give Tucker $2 million instead of one.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can’t they just buyout Orr, already?

Yes because Brian Burke is gonna buy out his goon

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you just take that way to seriously?

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

500k for the next 4 years if we had done it last summer.

So much easier just to bury him/pressbox him.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rosehill has played just 41 games over the last two years, almost (if not) all of which has been when one of Brown or Orr has been absent, and obviously prior to the additions of Dupuis and Lombardi. I’m not sold on the idea that Rosehill should/will be with the NHL club.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brown probably deserves 4th line minutes. He has no hands, but has the speed to keep up with the pace of the game

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

NO HANDS?

Surely you jest?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mike “Dirty Dangles” Brown.
or
Mike “Once in a Blue Moon” Brown

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clearly its dirty dangles

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

in reference to his moustache of course.

by Jon K. on Sep 26, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

ewwwww

Mike “Dirt Danlges” Brown

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’ll call him “Dangleberry” for short.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

There it is, folks. Mike “Dangleberry” Brown. I love it.

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is the most interesting yet most highly improbable 4th line I’ve seen yet.

It would assume that all of Orr, Boyce, and Dupuis are benched/waived and possibly implies that RW would play his 4th line more than 6-7 minutes a night.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have the depth to play a 4th line that can play hockey. I think Lombardi/Brown and Bozak/Armstrong are defensively responsible enough that each of those pairs could carry a Kadri or Frattin.

We’re saying that for eight minutes a game one of those lines is going to go up against marginal NHLers in a bid to score a goal.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’d be a refreshing change – but Burke has already started straying a bit from his Top6/Bottom6 Mantra – do we really think he’d try to roll 4 lines that could score?

It’s interesting, but again I think due to Burke’s philosophy/team build, it seems the most unlikely.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s less about philosophy and more about perception. Who brought in Orr? If it were about offense, Orr and to a lesser extent Rosehill would see exactly 0 minutes this year.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 26, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t think of it in terms of rolling 4 lines that can score; under the cap that’s an incredibly difficult thing to accomplish.

it’s more of “can we get four lines that can contribute more than a fight and 7 minutes of being pinned in your own end?” That’s definitely achievable

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s the increase in scoring from Rosehill – Boyce – Orr to Brown – Lombardi – Frattin. +15 goals?

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure it’d be that much, but even 5-10 more from a 4th line would be a huge upgrade considering the expected 4th line ice-time.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

it’d be 15.

It might be 15 just by Lombardi himself.

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

You think in 7 minutes a night Lombardi can generate 15 more goals than Darryl Boyce?

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would a 4th line of Brown-Lombardi-Frattin only play 7 minutes a night?

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well then another line’s production is dropping to make up for it.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

19-19-11-11 seems about right. Kessel ATOI last season 19:39, Grabovski 19:22.

Pension Plan Puppets*
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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, but then you’re getting less production from your 3rd line. The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t think that swap of players produces an extra 15 goals team-wide. If we get 15 extra goals from the 4th line but the reduced minutes means we get 5 less from the 3rd, then the we’re getting a 10 goal improvement, not 15.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

We didn’t get any production from our third line last year either.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thinK Chemmy is really on to something here. Im buying what hes sellin’

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

your ideas are intriguing to me, I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

A 4th line that’s capable of playing 11-12 minutes as opposed to 6-7 minutes means that other lines see less ice time but can also see more favourable matchups

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

My wonder if how RW would redistribute ice-time if it was set up in that fashion.

At 8m/night, I don’t know if anyone in the league is going to hit 15 goals.

But if time is distributed like (on average, spread between special teams and ES):

1st line. 18M
2nd line. 17M
3rd line. 13M
4th line. 12M

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d aim for something like 19, 19, 11, 11.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, so it would be like having 1A/1B and 3A/3B

Might hamper a bit of Bozak and Kadri’s offensive expectations, but increase the 4th lines.

It’d be an interesting experiment.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would you dole out TOI as though you had a top-six/-bottom-six philsophy if you don’t?

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by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t understand.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, by going 19-19-11-11, it implies that the bottom two lines are so much less capable of scoring that you’re effectively running a top-6/bottom-6 situation anyway.

If we’re adding scorers to the 4th line to take pressure of the top lines, wouldn’t the TOI distribution look more like what cheapshot suggested?

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by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’re adding scorers to those lines because they’re primarily checking lines, but can still score instead of just fight to get the puck out of our end. We’re not counting on them for goals, but we’re giving them the potential to bring some, whereas anyone with Orr is useless.

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our Punchasizing Quotient would drop significantly.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh god no

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

It gets even more tough when you realize that each player on each line isn’t getting the same ice-time – Grabbo had 19+ minutes, while Kulemin and MacArthur had ~17

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody said our bottom six deserves huge minutes. Our top six produced decently last year and I wouldn’t touch their minutes. I’d just prefer our “bottom six” have guys who will put the puck in the net rather than stage sideshow acts on the ice and have never espoused or denied that we do/don’t have a “top six bottom six”.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll be surprised if a line consisting of Kadri-Bozak-Armstrong doesn’t get a little more ice time than most of last year’s 3rd line incarnations.

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by JP Nikota on Sep 26, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would really be like 8 minutes each for the bottom two lines, and 16 minutes each for the top two lines, with PP going to Kadri & Frattin, and PK going to Bozak, Armstrong, Brown & Lombardi

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could see the if the argument against was a legitimate “shut-down” type bottom six. But it’s Colton Orr for 4 minutes a night. Not much else you can say.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at you, all running numbers and such.

Rec’d for research.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Droppin’ science like Galileo dropped an orange!

by Lemonstyx on Sep 26, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Beastie Boys, boyeeee!!!

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by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kadri and Frattin (should they both make the team) will get more than 11 minutes a night with some PP time.

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by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

This was based on Chemmy’s suggested ice-time split of 19/19/11/11

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chemmy thinks hockey his like his job – 26 minutes in an hour.

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by not norm ullman on Sep 26, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is only about 49 ES minutes per game. Should look at it like that.

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by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

The leafs don't spend much time on the PK

by GettinGiggy on Sep 26, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well let’s compare to last year.

Rosehill scored 1 in 26GP. Call it 3 from him.
Boyce had 4 in 46, so we’ll give him 7.
Orr had 2 in 46, so I’ll give him 4.

That’s 14 goals total for them.

Lombardi with short minutes is probably a 35pt guy. I’ll give him 10 goals. I’ll give Frattin 10 and 6 to Mike Brown. That’s +12 if Lombardi has half of his previous output. You can afford to play these guys more than 10:00 a game.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the offensive potential of that – the total goal output would obviously be highly impacted by the TOI.

And not like it’s a bad idea to give that line more, but who do you take it away from? Kessel’s line? MGK? Kadri/Bozak?

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW, Boyce had an SP% of like 18 last year.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who’s to say he’s not the best sniper in the league if he wasn’t given more ice-time?

/notserious

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

With that few goals he might be an 18% shooter: if he only scores by smashing rebounds in the crease and not from actually shooting it could be what it is.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember 2 of Boyces goals, one was an ugly as shit goal against Philly and the other was a result of a good forecheck. So you are probably correct

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus “bangs home rebounds” counts double in goals/shots: you’re not getting credited for a shot for smashing at a puck under a goalie unless it goes in the net.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

To play the pessimist/devil's advocate for a second

Lombardi’s scored of 19 goals two years ago was playing 18m/night.

If he scored at the same G/60 at 11m/night, it would have been 12 goals, assuming the exact same split of ES/PK/PP time.

Using the same methodology, Kessel would have scored 18 goals at 11 mins/night.

Pencilling him in for 10 and the same from Frattin might be a tad optimistic, but not that far off. It essentially means they are both 15-20 goal scorers in a top6 capacity over 82 games.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two factors: one, yes ice time, we’ll see a reduction in opportunity to score BUT Matthew Lombardi was playing in a defensive system against good players. Now he’ll be freed up to score a little more (except on the PK, duh) and be playing against bad players.

So, halving ice time doesn’t mean you’ll halve goal totals, just as doubling it doesn’t mean they’ll double.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, just pointing out that 10+ at 11min for 2 players seems a bit high IMO

And ya, I realize that there isn’t a perfect linear relationship on ice-time (especially when it’s split beteen ES/PP/PK) but without a better model fit, it’s the best we have. Otherwise, why use anything per 60 to evaluate anyone?

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

And we still have our PKers in Brown, Bozak, and Armstrong. Lombardi should be a great PK option when fully healthy.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see the 3 PK units as

Bozak & Armstrong
Grabbo & Kulemin
Lombardi & Brown

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the speed on that third pair

by samspade on Sep 26, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like that even better

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Buffalo one year rolled 4 nearly balanced lines that last year they had Drury and Briere. Worked decent for them.

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Quinn routinely rolled four lines in his tenure in Toronto.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

fits

Forwards (13)
Kessel, Phil " $5,400,000
Connolly, Tim " $4,750,000
Lupul, Joffrey " $4,250,000
Lombardi, Matthew " $3,500,000
MacArthur, Clarke " $3,250,000
Armstrong, Colby " $3,000,000
Grabovski, Mikhail " $2,900,000
Kulemin, Nikolai " $2,350,000
Kadri, Nazem " $1,720,000
Bozak, Tyler " $1,500,000
Frattin, Matt " $1,300,000
Brown, Mike " $736,667
Boyce, Darryl " $700,000
Defensemen (7)
Phaneuf, Dion " $6,500,000
Komisarek, Mike " $4,500,000
Liles, John-Michael " $4,200,000
Schenn, Luke " $3,600,000
Gunnarsson, Carl " $1,325,000
Franson, Cody " $800,000
Aulie, Keith " $733,333
Goaltenders (2)
Reimer, James " $1,800,000
Gustavsson, Jonas " $1,350,000

ROSTER SIZE 22
SALARY CAP $64,300,000
CAP PAYROLL $60,165,000
CAP SPACE $4,135,000

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Leafs have just 2 forwards signed past next season – Kessel and Brown. We could have a very different forward corps in a few years, though I’m sure some players will get extensions.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crosby, Getzlaf, Perry . . . . .

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now, imagine that without Komisarek
CAP SPACE $4,135,000 $8,635,000

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know :( but i thought I’d keep it realistic
I wanted to put Gardiner there, though I guess if Gardiner isn’t in then he should be in the AHL

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s PARISE cap space.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

I wonder if Wilson actually wants to keep those two “4th” lines together.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
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by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: “MAYBE RON WILSON DOESN’T USE THAT STAT IN ISOLATION” chat above

Hopefully he doesn’t. I don’t think anyone here seriously thinks Ron Wilson and Brian Burke watch the game in six and say “lookin’ good”.

We know that Aulie isn’t a top pairing NHL defender yet (and I don’t think people think he’s a bust, he’s just not ready to carry a really serious workload) and so when we hear someone say “well his GAON/60” is good it’s not some sort of statistics jerkoff argument to point out he played like hot garbage until his second callup when he had a larger benefit from Reimer than anyone.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Right. I was merely pointing out that maybe they valued that stat as opposed to “Aulie is big and North American” as to why they seem to prefer him to Gunnarsson.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well the other side of the coin is that we know Brian Burke and Ron Wilson use advanced stats and I doubt it stops at GAON/60.

A lot of us (I think) are shocked as hell to see Carl Gunnarsson as a bubble d-man on this team given that Aulie (worse than Gunnar) and Franson (roughly equal) seem like locks for a job.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, but have either Wilson or Burke implied that Gunnar is on the bubble? I haven’t seen anything specific from them on him.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didnt he say Gunnason has been the best Dman so far?

by samspade on Sep 26, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gardiner.

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by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gunnar hasn’t been that far off.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, but Wilson literally said the words “Gardiner has been our best d-man”.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I do realize this.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

shades of Colaiacovo

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by birky on Sep 26, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t remember who it was, but one of the coaches actually compared the two. I would be very happy if Gardiner ended up like him, minus the injuries of course

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was more referring to Gardiner’s performance in his first camp. Everyone has been impressed by his skating and passing (myself included), but somewhat forgetful of the rest of his game. Reminds me a lot of Colaiacovo’s first camp in Toronto.

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by birky on Sep 26, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reminds me of someone else…..

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

batman?

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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it came from the Shoalts article, and we’re hoping Shoalts just made it up and wasn’t told it by someone on the Leafs’ staff.

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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe they plan on using Gunnarson+Schenn, Gunnarson+Komisarek, or Liles+Schenn against the toughs?

by samspade on Sep 26, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

From the links at the top:
Leafs Make More Cute, Komisarek Survives

Sounds like a bunch of parade-type guys to me.

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by CanadianMaple09 on Sep 26, 2011 12:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Bill Watters, is that you?

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the point is that SkinnyFish thinks Komisarek is cute, otherwise they would have cut him.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question

Statistically speaking is it more valuable to prevent or score goals?

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Depends if you ask Boston or Washington

by Ben Schnell on Sep 26, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

To answer that question, we must first determine if you are Damien Coz

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

At the team level I'd think it would be equal

At the player level, the value is split differently between Forwards, defensemen and goaltenders, with obviously goaltending supporting most of the “preventing goals” value.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you don’t want your goaltenders trying to score goals?

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I’m just old fashioned that way.

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you can’t win games 0-0.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure you can, in the shootout.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be a bold move to invest all your cap dollars in defensemen and goaltending, and then shootout specialists.

Wait, isn’t that Nashville except for the shootout specialist part?

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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You still need to score in the shootout – or did I miss how those things work?

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you can’t win games 0-0.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s the final score after someone wins in a shootout? Is it 0-0?

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

/sigh

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also known as the NY Rangers approach

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s probably scoring a goal because you can win 1-0. They’re probably not far apart.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I figured as much, wasn’t sure if there was a bigger discrepancy.

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s goals, and I actually have a fanpost in mind that I’ve been planning on writing to examine this, but I haven’t had time yet.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

COME ON!

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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

via Mirtle ten seconds ago: Gunnarsson paired with Phaneuf in practice.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Works for everyone, I’d bet.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suspect that would be the consensus around here.

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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

We could nickname the Aulie-Franson pairing the “Twin Towers” as they’d be one of the tallest pairing in the league, if not the tallest.

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by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully Calgary never changes lol

No Good Komi Scum

by SPERO on Sep 26, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

There’s a very tasteless joke in here about them crumbling against the Jets. I believe I’ve just made it.

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by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you’re saying the MLSE planned the whole thing so they could invade winnipeg?

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by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m in

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m actually expecting something like this.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

otherwise knowns as my defence corps in NHL 12

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by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always feel weird when I agree with you.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
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by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

You shouldn’t feel weird, you should feel happy as it was the right choice

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

jiz.gif

"I will actually score as many times as Kulemin assists me."
-Mikhail Grabovski

by MapleLeafMole on Sep 26, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

via nhlcheapshot

Leafs mgmt reads PPP FTBs

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
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by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

did anyone

ever read/find this article in the summer?

http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/2011.06-essay-nerds-on-ice/

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, my girlfriend has a subscription to the Walrus, but I thought the article was kind of underwhelming. I much preferred Mirtle’s articles from the other day.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was a different kind of article. it’s more of an ‘essay’

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maple Leafs Annual

So I’ve been constantly checking at Metro, Loblaws, Chapters and in any Shoppers or other grocery store I’m in in London for the last month for the MLA. Last night, before going out for some drinks, I was in a dinky little Convenience store on Richmond (“Station Convenience” next to Jack Astors) and they had it. They only had like 4 copies but they had it. So random.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 26, 2011 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Though I didn’t buy it because I didn’t want to carry it around all night.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 26, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I finally got so frustrated with this: "Should Gunnar be scratched?" talk that I wrote a fanpost

Why Gunnarson is better than you think.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
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by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

No one here was thinking that tho….

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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know, I just liked the title. The article starts with how it is a response to MSM comments.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’ve penned an article in response to a question no one actually asked.

Congratulations! You are now ready to become a member of the MSM!

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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

You’ve penned an article in response to a question no one actually asked.

Have you looked at it? There are quotes from 3 different authors that I am writing the article in response too…

I’ll grant you they weren’t questions, but they were comments I didn’t agree with and that annoyed me…

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Further

How can you say no one has been asking this question about Gunnar? Nearly everything I have read (not on this site) has suggested that Gunnar is in for a race for his job.

Here are 4 links to show this, from Ulmer (twice), Siegel, and Shoalts.

So I AM responding to these comments….

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

shrug

Resident Capologist
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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Justin Pogge on waivers. Again

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

goalie of the future!

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"

by Matt_Roberts on Sep 26, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

hate JFJ so. much.

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

he did draft

Kulemin and Gunnarsson… so he wasn’t all bad.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Sep 26, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but in that one deft move he did an amount of damage we will probably never be able to quantify, especially since it brought on the toskala trade
where would the Leafs be if he stood pat, or traded Pogge instead?

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

we’d probably have found a way to screw Rask up too… like not getting him signed or something…

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Sep 26, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh probably, but at least then we wouldn’t have to watch Pogge put up calder trophy numbers on Boston

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

the saddest part is, Pogge probably WAS the more desirable asset at the time. He probably could have gotten more with the worse goalie. Instead, we traded the better goalie for Raycroft.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno about that

Rask was named top goalie of the WJC despite the fact that Pogge backstopped the gold medal winners.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Sep 26, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Canada was pretty insane deep that year too

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

i probably didn’t mean desirable. i probably meant ‘hype’. but maybe i’m not remembering that accurately.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rask dragged Finland to the medal round, Pogge was on a dominant as usual Canadian team.

by samspade on Sep 26, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

They couldn’t find a pic of Montoya where he didn’t look like he was playing RW?

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sexsmith
Schwarz
Montoya looked good last season when the Islanders needed him too, but iffy.

1.5 / 5 ain’t bad, “Future of Goaltending” cards.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ehhh. hehehehehehehehehe… His name says SEXsmith .. ehehehehehehehehe…

I’d like that JOB Beavis ! Hey ! I am a SEXsmith.. C’mere behbe !! hehehehehehehehe.

FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.

by FLYERROB on Sep 26, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

nice one beavis

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of these things is not like the others…

Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.

by birky on Sep 26, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Montoya’s never been below .920, true.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

That really is quite something considering how bad his time in the AHL has been.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, I’ve only ever seen Sexsmith in person. He was a backup the whole time, but at least I had a good chuckle at his name.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve got a really old edition of Goalie News, and on the cover is a giant picture of Raycroft. The subset is a picture of Rask, saying “lost in the buzz of the Andrew Raycroft trade, Tuukka Rask may be a star” or something like that. It’s not like his potential was unheralded.

It was stupid to trade 50% of our goaltending prospects. He replaced Rask 1 year later with Reimer, but we didn’t have the goaltending depth to gamble on Raycroft having a bounceback year.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

JFJ was all about high-risk high-reward trades. I think he didn’t win a single one.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Burke does that too, but unlike Burke JFJ was a moron.

by samspade on Sep 26, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

More waiver schadenfreude:

Cheechoo – STL
Christian Hanson – WSH
Danny Richmond – WSH (who I actually liked on the Marlies)

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn’t even realize Richmond was gone (not that there’s any room for him on the Marlies this year)

Resident Capologist
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by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joel Champagne released by Nashville.

Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.

by birky on Sep 26, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

ASSET MANAGEMENT!

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

WHY OH WHY DID WE NOT KEEP THESE PLAYERS?

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

Remember everyone he was once called “One of our best prospects”

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was more indicative of our woeful prospect depth than anything else.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I disagree

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re probably right.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was great on faceoffs!

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best?

Who ever called him one of the best?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Sep 26, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mirtle's Call for the opening night line-up
MacArthur – Grabovski – Kulemin
Lupul – Connolly – Kessel
Kadri – Bozak – Armstrong
Lombardi – Boyce – Orr

extra: Brown, Dupuis

Gunnarsson – Phaneuf
Liles – Schenn
Aulie/Gardiner – Franson

extra: Komisarek

I can live with this.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, notice the MGK is listed first. love it.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

obviously

what Wilson’s been saying, and what happened last year has sunken in. Maybe the line Kessel is on isn’t automatically the top one… particularly if all 3 guys on the “second” unit are similarly productive to Kessel.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Sep 26, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Replace Orr with Brown and it’s better

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 26, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

brown still probably a game time scratch me thinks

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, but not sure if he’ll be ready. Likely not.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

replace it with Brown and I’m half mast

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 26, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Replace Orr with Brownanyone who can actually skate and it’s better

Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)

by FiftyMissionCap on Sep 26, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

PLAYOFFS!!!!!1

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is anybody realistic missing from that list? Frattin I guess?

by theninjagreg on Sep 26, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crabb too.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 26, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marlies

Resident Capologist
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік

by clrkaitken on Sep 26, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

the best thing to me

on this is that Gunnarsson is on the top pair alongside Phaneuf.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Sep 26, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looks a lot better than previous years. I look forward to seeing this in a non-paper form. Can the season start now?

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno.

It looks like one of those Nashville or Minnesota teams from the last decade or so. They’ll probably compete for a playoff spot, but if they weren’t in this market, we probably wouldn’t have heard of most of them, and 90% of them could be replaced in a heartbeat.

/womp womp.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still better than names you’ve heard of that suck when they join your team.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 26, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any of Brown/Frattin/Dupuis over Orr would be nice, but Mirtle’s right; probably not going to happen.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t want Frattin playing 4th line mins
well not that it maters a ton in preseason, but still

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

True. He’s only got one year on that deal, I can’t imagine they want to stick him in the AHL the whole year.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

That 4th line would be so, so, so, so much better with Frattin instead of Orr.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 26, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sweet, I’m going to be at the game and I like that lineup. Should run a terrible Ottawa team into the ground.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

But they don’t play Ottawa until the second game of the season… the line up will be completely different by then.

Sorry just bitter, don’t have any tickets lined up yet for this season.

by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Sep 26, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beat Ottawa … I cannot stand their sense of entitlement by them or their fans. They act like they have been in the league for 100 years and that we all owe them multiple Stanley Cup Championships just because…. just because.

FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.

by FLYERROB on Sep 26, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

They were in the league…sort of. The old Ottawa Senators i think existed from around 1900 until about…1935? Someone can look that up for me if they care (I don’t really). And apparently they won the Stanley Cup 11 times in that span, the last of them in 1927. What irks me is that some Sens fans treat those Stanley Cups as though the new Senators won them which is quite silly.

They do have that “0” on the front of the jersey for a reason you know! ;)

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Sep 26, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never let them say that

Even if you accept that its the same team, only ONE of those cups was as the NHL championship. The other 10 were before it was part of the NHL playoffs. That includes them winning 3 times in February and March of 1904, 3 times in 1905, etc. It even includes them winning it 3 times in 6 days from March 10th-March 16th, 1911. Its insane.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

and one of those was from that Yukon team that traveled all the way down and played on like a day’s rest.

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dawson Creek I believe?

by Nigel Cadbury on Sep 26, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly its insanity. If they really want to claim connection to that team, they can only even claim ONE stanley cup win.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have not won a Stanley Cup since the Leafs were called the Leafs :)

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Sep 26, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

they have not won a cup at all, the Senators that won that cup have less to do with the current Senators than the Old Jets have in common with the old ones

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Were they lead in scoring by Pacey?

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reply fail.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

fail ? huh ?

FLYERROB ! YOU STAY AWESOME FLYERS FANS ! ~ ~ ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ May you rest in Peace ~ I love you and miss you big Sis ! I cant believe at 44 yrs of age .. you went to sleep and never woke up. I promise to take care of Matt and Emily for you. With Love, your baby Brother.

by FLYERROB on Sep 26, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I meant to reply to a post above but I messed up and posted a new message.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

i’m going to the same game as you methinks.

Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10

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by thenumber14 on Sep 26, 2011 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m getting a little tired of this “if he gets sent down, we’re going to put him out to pasture” tone that gets talked about with Aulie. He’s 22 years old. He’s 5 months older than Luke Schenn. He’s still a top 4 prospect, even if he doesn’t make the opening day roster. If he gets sent down, he’ll play top time on the Marlies, and he’ll come back up when he’s ready. He’s not fighting for his job, he’s just fighting to stay in the NHL between now and the first injury.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well put.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

there’s this sense among some (the MSM mainly) that once you get called up getting sent down is equivalent to being banished from the league forever. that you’re destined to toil as a journeyman AHLer.

unless they’re talking about teams that aren’t the Leafs, in which case it’s just called “depth”.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’ll probably persist until we have a kid who goes from the draft to goal scoring stardom. Since our prospect pipeline doesn’t produce much I think common perception is that being a Marlie means you stink.

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by Chemmy on Sep 26, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Up until this year, maybe late last year, that was an accurate perception.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it has something to do with the fact that a team that has failed to make the post-season since the lockout really has no depth to speak of in the sense that by “depth” it means you already have players that have made the team successful in that it has qualified for the postseason. Unti we make the postseason or are a continuing contending team, we don’t really have depth as per say. Depth, even to me, means guys that can and will be able to step in and the team as a whole won’t suffer, a team that is already accustomed to winning or being a contender. The Leafs are not one of those teams yet so as for real depth, proof will be in the pudding.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Sep 26, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

right now we actually have a tonne of depth. it just happens to be in 3-rd line forwards and bottom-pairing defensemen.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you missed my point. Depth on a team should only be considered depth if the team is already stocked with winning players i.e. players that have at the very least are able to get the team in postseason. Until we have such players that will get the team in the playoffs or contend for the cup year in and year out, we don’t really have depth or a pool of said players because we have yet to qualify for post season play since the lock-out.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Sep 26, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

well in that case no one has depth

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess you’re right and I’m foolish to think that a team like say the Red Wings would be an example of what I am saying.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Sep 26, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

no goaltending depth at all past Howard, or defensive depth really

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes recently but that wasn’t the case a few years ago where no matter who got hurt, they had someone to step in and they didn’t miss a beat. Depth is something all teams struggle with and no team can maintain elite status forever. I think you know what I’m talking about.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Sep 26, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, a few years ago, I’m think of now, which is what I thought the time frame of the initial conversation was, as in we were discussing the Leafs current depth

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok. As for the current state of the Leafs, well we still haven’t gathered players that have made the team qualify for the playoffs yet let alone made some noise… so being able to replace them with promising yet unproven players isn’t what I would call depth. Depth would be able to do what the Wings were like when they were the giants that they were. By no means take what I am saying we are not on the right path or anything negative, I’m just saying calling what we have as depth really isn’t right considering we still don’t have a contending team littered with players that make the team a contender (contender as in one of better teams in the league) and have players that could sub in and the team as a whole wont be negatively affected.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Sep 26, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Habs Sign Campoli

Campoli signed for $1.75. Markov might not be ready for the start of the season.

Do they have enough cap space to take Komi still?

WORD to yo Momma

by ThickSkinnedAlive on Sep 26, 2011 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I was wondering where he would end up. Why did he take so long to sign?

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he’s not very good at hockey, and not many people want his services.

Oddly enough, McCabe hasn’t signed anywhere either, but that’s apparently because he really wanted (wants?) to stay in the Southeast.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really? I thought he was supposed to be a solid second pairing guy. I remember the mittenstringers saying that when he was sent to chicago. For whatever reason I don’t remember him all that much.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You might remember him from such turnovers as…

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

He caused the Vancouver riots with that turnover. That means he’ll fit right in with the Habs. ;)

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Sep 26, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could see a scenario where we take back Gomez and stick him in the minors. I’d put the odds at that happening at <1% though.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec’d for truth.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 26, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

because they are going to trade us Subban to do that

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m going to assume you’re making fun of people other than me. at no point did i insinuate something so absurd.

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I make fun of everyone

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno. I feel like Burke wouldn’t have the balls to bury a guy he recruited so heavily. It’s different than burying someone else’s problem (i.e., The Silver Fox’s).

Move along. Nothing to see here...

by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Sep 26, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

anyone else find it hilarious that MLSE spent a considerable amount of $$ on Leafspace only to have it shut down 3 years later?

Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10

Follow Me On Twitter!

by thenumber14 on Sep 26, 2011 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it bad that this makes me happy?

SIEGEL: AULIE NOT A LOCK FOR LEAFS (from TSN)

To be fair its not Aulie being sent down that makes me happy its this:

On Monday, it was Gunnarsson who skated with Phaneuf for much of practice.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 7:32 PM EDT reply actions  

well if you ask Dreger it’s showcasing!

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 26, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed. Interesting rumors.

by TheCeej on Sep 26, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

And apparently it’s not for picks or prospects?

by TheCeej on Sep 26, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are you basing this on?

I don’t see anything in his twitter feed or on TSN.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thought i saw it there, can’t find it now.

by TheCeej on Sep 26, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

he said it on TSN radio

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by thenumber14 on Sep 26, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jared said it was on teh radio.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

We better get a good return or I’ll have a sad (read better than Turris).

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

you and my dad would be the only people I know to be heartbroken at Gunnarson leaving.

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by thenumber14 on Sep 26, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Burtch too

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t necessarily be that heartbroken because while I like him I understand he is just a good player not a great player (mind you his cap hit for what he brings I think is excellent). What I think will upset me, is I doubt he has the trade value that I think he deserves and am afraid I won’t like the return. But time will tell for that.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m afraid to the return too, because while it makes sense for Bozak and Gunnar to get packaged together, I have no idea what Burke is trying to get with them.

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by thenumber14 on Sep 26, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think Bozak on the way would mean Lomb is 100% ready to go for the reg season?

by TheCeej on Sep 26, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

eh, that worries me too because from what we’ve seen in preseason, Bozak and Armstrong had established a bit of chemistry.

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by thenumber14 on Sep 26, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Bozak is being shipped out, it’s likely to make room for Kadri and/or Lombardi, which means it would make no sense to acquire Turris, because then he’d be fighting for that exact some roster spot.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Sep 26, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

or Bozak was needed on PHX’s end because they need a C, and really the deal was to unclog our D

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone has their price. And until something goes down – or at least there’s a trade target – it’s just a rumor.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wisniewski Suspension

8 regular season games is a pretty big deal, hopefully this is a sign Shanny is serious, as that’s a bit different than a guy like Shelley.

Also, Eklund of course thinks it’s out of control, proving it’s not just trades that he’s dead wrong on.

Finally on the Twitter train, @j6events. Follow me, I swear I'll have interesting thoughts soon!

by BetterThanBester on Sep 26, 2011 8:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow. Good for Shanny

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Going to cost him 500,000 because he’s a repeat offender. Wow.

Chicken Little is dead. Long Live Positive Pete.
Lebda-free since July 3.

by nhlcheapshot on Sep 26, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Closer to $700 000 I believe. Its based on his salary this year not his cap hit right? He is making 7 000 000 this year.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cap hit, not salary.

$536,585.366

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reallly?

That is so weird. I thought he just doesn’t get paid for the games he missed… How does that work with cap hit?

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

games missed * cap hit/82?

elephant shell
never question our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - yardly

by sportsfan2 on Sep 26, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I understand that. But I always just assumed the team paid fine instead of paying the player. If its the other way around it actually literally has to come out of the players pocket. Consider if a guy like Pronger got suspended in the last year of his contract. If he missed 8 games he would only be missing 10% of 1 000 000, but his fine would be like 5 times that amount.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s what I thought as well, that’s it’s pretty much just a forfeiture of salary for the time they’re suspended, just literally suspended without pay, as opposed to fined

Finally on the Twitter train, @j6events. Follow me, I swear I'll have interesting thoughts soon!

by BetterThanBester on Sep 26, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you for putting it more succinctly.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

per capgeek’s FAQ:

Per section 50.10-c (P. 226) of the CBA, salary and bonuses that are not paid to suspended players do not count against the cap, meaning the above formulas translate directly into a team’s cap savings.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

salary and bonuses that are not paid to suspended players

That sounds to me like they are referring to the money that the player would have made, ie their salary not their cap hit. But its lawyer speak so I don’t have much confidence in my ability to understand it properly.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either way

He gave up a shit load of money for being a dangerous idiot in the preseason. Good on Shanny for dropping the hammer.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That part is talking about their salary – because you forgot the important part! “do not count against the cap.”

In other words: salary not paid does not count against the cap.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay but thats talking about the cap hit to the team. I am wondering what they get fined by the league.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, sorry, I was responding to “How does that work with cap hit?”

yeah, the fine is just basically being suspended without pay, I believe.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

No worries.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 26, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

In reply to someone citing Bozie/Gunnar trade rumor to @DarrenDreger:

DarrenDreger Darren Dreger
@NHLrundown. Did not say that. Said there is speculation. Big difference.

In reply to Mirtle directing a trade rumor inquiry to Dreger:

DarrenDreger Darren Dreger
@mirtle. The only way either would be in play would be for a big forward. Can’t see it happening anytime soon.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 26, 2011 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

So decided to watch Fair Game, the new movie about the Valerie Plame leak, and am stunned to see that the movie opens with a solid minute of Leaf-bashing.


Between us the Maple Leafs suck. They should never have signed Mark Bell. Guy’s a liability on and off the ice.

Thanks, Naomi Watts. Now the world knows.

Come get your duds in order...

by The Bag on Sep 26, 2011 10:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah I saw that too… funny because they never signed him, but got him in a trade.

I then decided they could reconcile the mistake in that the line is stated by her as a Secret Agent “pretending” to be Canadian, she’s probably got a CIA brief book with facts about hockey and Canada, etc. As a top agent, she’s read this cover-to-cover and knows the facts hands down. The problem is that, as we’ve seen from news outlets like ESPN, a lot of American entities seem to have their facts wrong concerning Toronto and the Leafs. Therefore, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about and, luckily, the people who she’s talking to were bluffing when asking about the Leafs and know nothing about Mark Bell.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 26, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s not bad. I reasoned this way: her cover isn’t as a Leafs fan, but as a Canucks fan living in Toronto. That says two things to me: bitterness and stupidity. Given that, it fits perfectly with her cover to think the Leafs are terrible because they signed Mark Bell.

Come get your duds in order...

by The Bag on Sep 26, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

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