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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

Stephen Marche: "Leafs Fan"


Grantland is a proposition that probably won't entice most people. A common reaction to the long form essay site started by Bill Simmons is to wonder why people would read a site glorifying Boston more than ESPN already does. It's even more confusing when you consider that most people in Boston don't like Bill Simmons either.

This morning Grantland put up a piece by A REAL CANADIAN about how Toronto is the "Worst Sports City in the World". The worst? Really? You could live in Oklahoma City and admire your empty new rink you paid for or any number of factory cities formed in the past three days in China where you can't play sports due to air pollution but no, Toronto is the "worst sports city in the world". Maybe Mr. Marche will at least give us a fresh take on why Toronto is so lousy.

Star-divide

Despite having more money than any other hockey team in the league, the Leafs have not purchased any brilliant players in an era overflowing with brilliant players. - Stephen Marche

So much for that theory. Praytell what are these great players? Should Toronto have spent big money on Jay Bouwmeester and Brian Campbell? Wade Redden and Scott Gomez were big UFAs would they have carried Toronto to the playoffs?

What about Ilya Kovalchuk? If Toronto had taken their piggy bank of prospects and smashed it wide open never to be filled again to trade for his rights and then given him the exorbitant contract that included throwing a first round pick in the garbage would media critical of the Burke regime brush it off as they have with New Jersey?

What about when all of those players listed weren't any good. Maybe Kovalchuk gets back on track but if he had the season he had last year in Toronto after paying that price Brian Burke would find himself lynched in Nathan Phillips Sq.

The truly funny part about this piece, and about this quote, is it's the same short sighted lack of perspective that got us here in the first place. Despite every sign saying it would happen JFJ didn't see the lockout coming. Despite a salary cap coming in JFJ thought the Leafs would build by signing big name UFAs. When it became apparent that big name UFAs only sign in markets that are contenders JFJ was unceremoniously dumped.

If Stephen Marche followed hockey in any way (this isn't a requirement to write about hockey for Grantland; yesterday they ran a piece about Andrew Marchand's terrific playoffs for the Bruins) he'd know that truly elite talent never hits the open market. Sidney Crosby will never negotiate as a UFA. Alexander Ovechkin and Drew Doughty will never be up for the taking.

Toronto fans like extravagantly ordinary players. How else to explain paying $3 million for Darcy Tucker? Or $5.5 million for Bryan McCabe? Sometimes I wonder if Toronto would even know what to do with the Sedin twins, who are less like quick-fisted farm boys and more like magical changelings conceived by elves in the Scandinavian forest. Would they even be welcome in Toronto? - Stephen Marche

Extravagantly ordinary players like Darcy Tucker? In 06-07, the year before he re-upped in Toronto, Darcy Tucker scored 21 goals and had 43 points in 56 games. In 05-06 he scored 28 goals and 61 points. Ignore the truculent aspects of Tucker's game and pretend he was a "run of the mill" sniper. If you wouldn't pay $3M for 61 points you're a dope.

Similarly the year before Bryan McCabe re-upped for $5.75M (not $5.5M as claimed) he scored 68 points in 73 games. Yes sir in Toronto we like to pay for ordinary guys like point per game defensemen.

What would Toronto do with the Sedin twins? We'd cheer for every one of their combined 200 points a year. Historically Toronto has been the more workmanlike team as compared to Montreal but only because Montreal was filled with so much unobtainable talent year after year.

It's not that Toronto fans like goons or hate skill; it's that everyone likes winning. The teams in Toronto that have been successful and captured the heart of the city have been teams that play with a chip on their shoulder. Toronto loves Doug Gilmour. Toronto loves Mats Sundin. Toronto loves Wendel Clark. Toronto loves Borje Salming. Toronto loves skill players who back down from nothing.

Toronto loses not despite our love for the game, but because of our love for the game. The truism is by now well established, a local media commonplace. "Each man kills the thing he loves," as Oscar Wilde put it. The teams lose because they don't have to win. The Leafs have so many people on the waiting list for season tickets that they don't take new names anymore; no matter what happens they have a 99 percent renewal rate. Torontonians line up to pay tens of thousands of dollars to watch some of the most dreadful hockey played at a professional level. - Stephen Marche

This is an extremely common insult tossed at the city of Toronto: that somehow because fans are here through thick and thin that we're deserving of mockery. Should fans of the Leafs collectively throw up their hands and let out one final scream of exasperation before leaving the ACC completely empty every night?

When would we be allowed to go watch the team again? The Leafs started 4-0 last year and clearly you'd be an idiot to go pay for a ticket to a game at that point because Stephen Marche said so. Maybe he should put up a website or a call in line to advise us when we can watch our hockey team again.

Or maybe Stephen Marche can go back to Bleacher Report or whatever hole he crawled out of to write yet another article letting us know Toronto likes hockey too much and they don't win the Stanley Cup every year because the city is full of morons who hate winning.

In the meantime, we deserve to lose. We deserve our pain. The pain is the only hope that we'll ever learn to win again.


Stephen Marche is a novelist and a columnist at Esquire magazine. His most recent book is How Shakespeare Changed Everything.

There's no "we" here. Stephen Marche isn't a Leafs fan any more than I'm an expert on William Shakespeare. Actual Leafs fans suffer through endless Tuesday night losses to bottom feeders and support our team despite their crummy record. The next time he needs to write something I hope Mr. Marche leaves "us" out of it.

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“How Shakespeare Changed Everything or: Shit I Learned in High School”

by Self Destructive Zones on Sep 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

must be real hard to write a book about a topic that’s been covered ad nauseum.

by Tickle Me Aulie on Sep 27, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any discussion of “Worst Sports City in the World” that doesn’t begin and end with a fight to the death between Atlanta and Miami is trolling.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

STOP BUYING LEAFS TICKETS

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by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I’m boycotting the team. This settles it.

by Self Destructive Zones on Sep 27, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to Ilya Bryzgalov, Winnipeg is the most miserable sports city.

by Tickle Me Aulie on Sep 27, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say Cleveland is pretty miserable

They haven’t won a championship since the Browns won it with Jim Brown in 1964, and the city smells.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 27, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, so miserable

Cleveland-based Leafs fan here. :/

by sidehacker on Sep 27, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

lul

I’m from Toledo and even we pity Cleveland.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 27, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's close to me now

but most Toledo-ites that I meet tend to be Browns fan. I became a Leafs fan because I was looking for the most Browns-like NHL franchise so yeah.

by sidehacker on Sep 27, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Atlanta and Miami aren’t sports cities.

by sidehacker on Sep 27, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Atlanta has lost its hockey team twice, but hey, better than toronto

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Atlanta has lost its hockey team twice, but hey, better than toronto

The only American city to lose a hockey team to Canada… twice.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 27, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was a mistake.

If the Thrashers could’ve held on for another decade, they would’ve been gold. I moved to Atlanta from Toronto when I was 4, and I’ve played all my youth/junior/varsity level hockey in the city (excluding tournaments.) Our teams were thin when I first started out, but I just finished my last year of U-18 and it’s huge. The youth hockey movement in the city of Atlanta has absolutely exploded, and it keeps getting bigger. It’s been awesome to be a part of.

Pumps out more male with one thrust of the pelvis than the United States postal service over the last 146 years.

by Blinky on Sep 27, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

An earlier version of this piece listed the Blue Jays as one of the teams owned by Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment.

If this fails to tell you how much of an authority this tool is on Toronto sports (read: not at all), I don’t know what will.

Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)

by FiftyMissionCap on Sep 27, 2011 12:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes, I couldn’t believe it when I read it this morning. What a fucking joke, that alone should disqualify anything else he writes under the guise of sports “journalism”.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leafs have longest drought without a stanley cup – over 40 years or so.
The story never gets old apparently

by jeffgm on Sep 27, 2011 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Its only been 15 months that it has been true so the MSM can milk another year out of it at least.

Original member of the Mike Weber bandwagon!
To make up for lost time, the Sabres signed six seasons worth of front-loaded cap skirting contracts in one week.

by Ubiquitous on Sep 27, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

rec’d for south park reference.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn’t he that guy on the Habs? Oh wait, that’s Mathieu Darche. Nevermind then. ;)

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Sep 27, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also if we didn’t go to games people would write the following article:

“TORONTO CALLS ITSELF THE BEST MARKET IN HOCKEY AND YET”

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by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s the best of both worlds.

They hate Leafs fans, so they hammer us for daring to support a losing team. If we did walk away there would be endless articles accusing us of not being true fans and some writer for Grantland would cream himself because he’d get to write an article about how great Red Sox fans were pre-2004 for staying with their team despite everything and then put a snippy ‘not like the so-called fans in Toronto’ at the end of it.

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

If there’s anything worse than Toronto sports MSM it’s the self righteous blowhards of Boston.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s odd, outside of Boston you guys get a lot of Bill Simmons nonsense. People in Boston hate him too.

In Boston go check out the Boston Globe. For a month they’ve been pointing out how bad the Red Sox are, way ahead of national media.

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by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess winning everything can rub others the wrong way too.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was down in Florida last week and came across a Boston bar, big Patriots sign on the front and Sox/Bruins shit all over the inside. After having a few beers with them, Bostonians are good people but they are arrogant as hell (I should have been able to tell this before walking in, considering the how obnoxiously decorated this bar in South Florida was). Can’t say I blame them for it though.

I talked football with a guy and he was so sure the Patriots were going to demolish the Bills. Wish I were still there to get his reaction now.

by lucc on Sep 27, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amen dgb. You can’t claim loyalty is bad when you go after markets that see their fanbase fall off after a few bad seasons.

I’ve never understood why people get worked up over this. Isn’t loyalty good?

Why does this clown care if people renew their season ticket subscriptions?

The Maple Leafs- making me certifiably insane since 1985.

by torleafsfan29 on Sep 27, 2011 12:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

My aunt and uncle live near Ottawa, they have season tickets they share with my cousin. In the last half of last season, they all stopped going to the games because they were losing, they couldn’t even give the tickets away fan support had fallen so much

by Casey_bat on Sep 27, 2011 12:27 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

I can attest to the fact that Ottawans are band-wagoners. I get a few jeers in my leafs jersey nowadays, but not as many as in the past. Now they know to shut up, and most of them stop following hockey altogether. It’s sad. Even though that brutal 28th place season, i watched most of the games. Although if we decided not to play (which has happened many times over the past 3-4 years , last year partially excluded, then I would sometimes turn it off rather than scream at the tv and spill my beer)

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is awesome, this should get at least… one million recs.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 27, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

So according to this logic...

Toronto should aspire to having a team where the visiting fans fill your arena for 9 of your home games, and having your arena be a ghost town for the other 32.

Oh well. The Ottawa Senators are a great source of cheap Leafs tickets. I’m sure that was their plan all along, right…?

1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1

by LeafBoy on Sep 27, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was the closest “city” to Toronto that MLSE would let them put a hockey team.

Original member of the Mike Weber bandwagon!
To make up for lost time, the Sabres signed six seasons worth of front-loaded cap skirting contracts in one week.

by Ubiquitous on Sep 27, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot the quotes around “hockey team” as well.

bazinga!

RIP WB
"Your candle burned out long before your legend ever will" - Bernie Taupin

by fair_n_hite_451 on Sep 27, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate baseball. I have paid for one ticket to a baseball game in my 12 years in Toronto. If the Jays ever get really competitive and go on a good playoff run, I will for likely hop on the bandwagon an buy tickets. I AM THE BEST BASEBALL FAN EVER.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

By not buying tickets, you are forcing the Jays to build a better team. Therefore, you’re a better fan, because people who support the Jays now are really just coddling them!

It hurts my brain to think that badly.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 27, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, because attendance started declining in 1995, or 16 years ago, and sure enough, the Jays were back in the playoffs by……..oh. Well, shit.

Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)

by FiftyMissionCap on Sep 27, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, but Grantland has no idea about what it means to be a proper sports fan.

They ran this piece of shit where some pond scum attempted to justify switching away from his boyhood team; admitted being a bandwagon fan; and then says it’s okay for him to give up on his new team.

The quality of writing on that site is clusterfuckingly dreadful.

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weird that Simmons would publish such an article on his site, given all that he’s written about sports bigamy, bandwagon jumping, etc.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Simmons is a man who’s been pushed to a position and celebrity way beyond his ability as a writer or commentator.

It doesn’t surprise me that he has no real aptitude for editing.

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Sep 27, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that or he doesn’t mind publishing viewpoints he doesn’t personally agree with for the sake of argument, which would actually speak well of him. I just wouldn’t have expected it.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

title

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Sep 27, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

<img src=“”http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s4wshv_Y4Xc/SmpZtdIZdlI/AAAAAAAAAHs/qpNnazkvRIc/s1600-h/Media+story+generator.bmp" >let’s try that again"/>

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Sep 27, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

i give up

you see what i was trying to do

sobs

Unabashed fan of the surprise 2012 Stanley Cup champs

by pevans on Sep 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

instant rec

Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about humans

by Future_considerations on Sep 27, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Had a Habs fan who lived in Toronto throw the “as long as Toronto sells out with a bad team they’ll never get better” at me, so I asked him, “Montreal are having a terrible season, you are visiting Montreal, the offer comes to get tickets – do you buy them?” He says yes, because he’d like to see a live game. So I ask why this suddenly becomes a bad thing when it happens in a teams home town?

Shut him up.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moral of the story – People who go by Stephen are douchecanoes.

Steve – OK, Steven – OK, Stephen – Douchcanoe

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:14 PM EDT reply actions  

what about stephen colbert?

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

… exception that proves the rule?

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exhibit B

Steve Burch ? :D

Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about humans

by Future_considerations on Sep 27, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Arguments for the rule: Stephen Baldwin

Arguments against the rule: Stephen Hawking, Stephen Fry, Stephen Jay Hawking

Uncategorizable: Stephin Merritt.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay so it’s not perfect

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

And of course, by Stephen Jay Hawking, I mean Stephen Jay Gould.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Arriaga! Barriaga! Arriaga 2 and Pizzoza!

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by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stephen Malkmus

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re saying that Professor Marche needs a “Silence Kit”?

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by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I sure as hell don’t want him being my Summer Babe

by Self Destructive Zones on Sep 27, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t wait till the Leafs make the playoffs, lose a hard fought 7 game series to the eventual cup champions and we get articles like “LEAFS STILL TERRIBLE, CAN’T MAKE IT OUT OF 1ST ROUND”

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 12:16 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

FANS SHOW UP TO ALL PLAYOFF GAMES LIKE SUCKERS WHILE MLSE POCKETS CASH MADE FROM TEARS

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

by Semi_Colon on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLSE bottles the tears of fans, sells 10,000 them for 10,000$ a piece – sold out after 34 seconds.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Real Sports B&G specialty shot – “Failed Dreams”. 1 part Absolut, 1 part CC, 1 part Fan Tears. Shake violently and strain. $67.00

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Or when they clinch a playoff spot “PLAN THE CHARADE: NHL IS FIXED”

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 27, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phil Kessel is pictured in a suit that doesn’t fit: "PLAN THE BROCADE – KESSEL STILL ANTI-STYLE ICON.

The Maple Leafs win the Cup and visit President Obama: “PLAN THE MEDICAID – LEAFS SHAMEFULLY GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS”

The Leafs start selling soft drinks at games: “PLAN THE LEMONADE – MLSE JUST OUT TO GOUGE FANS”

Matt Lashoff makes the roster: “PLAN THE SERENADE – LASHOFF’S TERRIBLE MUSIC NOT A PATCH ON BOSTON DAYS”

Somebody gets a facial injury and has to wear a protective mask: “PLAN THE MASQUERADE – PHANEUF OBLIGATED TO WEAR MASK TO PREVENT SCARING CHILDREN”

One of Burke’s kids stays out all night: “PLAN THE DISOBEYED – BURKE CAN’T KEEP ORDER AT HOME OR AT WORK”

The Leafs lose: “PLAN THE UPGRADE – LEAFS CAUSE KITTENS TO DIE IN DEFEAT”

by Be26 on Sep 28, 2011 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

So...

…living in a city where I can only go see crappy teams like the Leafs, Jays, Raptors, Argos and Rock is WAY worse than being in, say, Ottawa where I have the priviledge see the Senators and the…

…oh wait.

by BeyondBeleaf on Sep 27, 2011 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I was about to say the same thing. As a pure sports town, I’ll take Toronto over at least a dozen other North American cities…

by mf37 on Sep 27, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The article is about the worst sports city. Trust me, Ottawa doesn’t qualify.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Sep 27, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

City

Right?

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s the “Sports” , implying it has more then one team

Dion Phaneuf: turning the tunes up since '10

Follow Me On Twitter!

by thenumber14 on Sep 27, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s “Sports City”, as in it’s not a sports city.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 27, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, I think clrkaitken was right.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it’s subjective.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

$9 Beer is right.

I meant that the word City excludes Ottawa from being considered Worst Sports City.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I know what you were saying.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 27, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW I was being sarcastic, I was missing the font. I’m inclusive in my Ottawa hate.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

man, I wished I lived in a city like Pickle Lake, their sports teams never let me down

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

You forgot Toronto FC

by Casey_bat on Sep 27, 2011 12:23 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

I see what you did there

by Casey_bat on Sep 27, 2011 12:42 PM EDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

and

Montreal? Habs and Alouttes…crickets

by Fanamaniac on Sep 27, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

and the exp….never mind

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I resent that statement

The Rock just won a championship last year. They should never be in the same conversation as the Leafs, Jays, Raptors, and Argos when winning is the subject.

Never stop believing. Go Leafs Go.

by MLS on Sep 29, 2011 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

The teams lose because they don’t have to win.

Tell that to Vesa Toskala, or Andrew Raycroft, or Paul Maurice, or John Ferguson Jr. They’re still around despite losing, right?

by Self Destructive Zones on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

It seems like I see an article every year now saying Toronto fans are idiots for supporting their team through thick and thin, I wonder who Stephan cheers for in every sport? I’m willing to bet he’s a Cubs fan

by Casey_bat on Sep 27, 2011 12:21 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions  

Nope, sorry. Grantland said so.

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by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, and a lot of people sell them privately, and a lot of seats allow the people owning adjacent seats a period to find someone when they become available.

Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.

by Shield on Sep 27, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fuck you Steven marche.. your book probably sucks also..

Certified Grabbo Lover
Jim Hughson embodies everything I hate about humans

by Future_considerations on Sep 27, 2011 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

The Leafs’ major source of hope seems to be Brian Burke…

I think he’ll score 30!

by Dr_Furious on Sep 27, 2011 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

At least he cross-checks though.

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Sep 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was waiting for this

by Dr_Furious on Sep 27, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t want you to be disappointed.

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Sep 27, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but we traded picks for him, picks that easily would’ve selected a guy like Ovechkin or Crosby, because if we had simply tanked we would have a team of the greatest players of all time.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is legal

No Good Komi Scum

by SPERO on Sep 27, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Columbus.

Which is a much better sports city than Toronto apparently…

RIP WB
"Your candle burned out long before your legend ever will" - Bernie Taupin

by fair_n_hite_451 on Sep 27, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Toronto's public transit system sucks too

Yeah. Compared to all those fine fine systems in American cities?

No longer providing fresh fish products for the whole family.

by not norm ullman on Sep 27, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Toronto’s public transit system does suck.

Chicago’s, for example, kicks the ever-living shit out of toronto’s

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

And paris’ kicks the living shit out of just about anyone. Toronto’s has a lot of problems, but it doesn’t suck. Many, many developed cities have worse transit.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it sucks

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I walk 5 minutes to the subway. I transfer once and it spits me out basically in the building I work in. Suck does not appropriately describe this situation.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I walk to my bus stop, wait up to 7 minutes for an express bus, sit on it for 30 minutes to the subway station, spend 30 min on train line (If there are no delays but it IS the TTC afterall, transfer to the YUS line and go 10 minutes to where I need to go. I live IN Toronto.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought you lived in Etobicoke?

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t realize that the Etobicoke is outside of the TTC boundaries

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s outside downtown Toronto and quite a distance away given the current traffic. Can’t blame the TTC for traffic, you can blame everyone driving a car by themselves (which is almost all the drivers) and clogging it up.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah but if the transit system did a better job reaching the immediate suburbs maybe the TTC would be a good alternative to driving.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t realize that the TTC is just for downtown commuters. Lemme hop in my car and pollute and spend a shitload on parking from now on. Or I could move downtown to a bachelor apt for $2000 a month.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’d be nice if we had the population and population density to justify a vast subway network like New York, Chicago, London, etc, but we don’t.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to norm ullman’s stats below, TTC has 1.8 times the daily ridership of Chicago.

Why should Toronto’s transit system ignore large pockets of areas where a significant component of the people who work in Toronto live?

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because the people who live in those areas voted for a mayor who would make transit cuts that would specifically hurt the parts of the city where they live.

They’re getting what they deserve, in that respect. However, speaking as someone who works but does not live in the suburbs, I’m justifiably peeved.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

People do get the politicians they deserve….

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

troof

sadly.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Sep 27, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Money. The TTC receives the lowest % of government funding of any major transit system in North America. I remember reading that 60% of it’s operating budget comes from actual fares. In NYC it’s something like 10%, I’m sure Chicago is similar.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup, the Feds pay about nothing when it comes to the TTC, its heavily weighted towarsd city/province. But then again, Toronto – and our big cities in general – are as a whole critically underfunded by the Feds.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because they need airplanes. A whole bunch of them, that in case a real war broke out against the Arctic powers, they could last about 18 minutes before they were annihilated by a superpower. Great strategy. I guess we’re gearing up for war against Denmark. Otherwise I don’t understand.

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe not but the studies done on traffic congestion suggest something is fucked up. It’s going to have a major economic impact on the city before long.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is having a major impact, but no one in city hall is going to do anything about it. Everytime I come back to Toronto it seems to get worse and worse in terms of traffic.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’d be nice if we had the population and population density money to justify a vast subway network like New York, Chicago, London, etc, but we don’t.

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I hope YouTube comes down to film this.

by birky on Sep 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t disagree, but I think we need policies to force people off the roads, and put a significant chunk of that money into making our transit better. I’d be all for a 10$ tax for people enterign the city by car, particularly for those living outside Toronto proper (and who don’t pay city taxes). In London its about 20$ and seems to work pretty well. You got to raise more money for the TTC if you want it to improve: it’s woefully underfunded by the federal government.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I LIVE IN TORONTO.
My taxes help fund the fuckin TTC and my neighbourhood gets a very shitty end of the stick

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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

What part of Toronto? Because if its Etobicoke, it’s not really Toronto.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you fuckin shitting me?

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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you guys do have your own private garbage collection. If you’re part of Toronto why don’t you use the city garbage collection?

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m just kidding by the way. Don’t go all Itali-rage.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

leafer, I think you’re confused. You don’t live in Etobicoke, and the TTC doesn’t operate in Woodbridge. That would explain the subpar service you’ve been experiencing.

by lucc on Sep 27, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh hey a Woodbridge joke, very original

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m a wop too by the way, I get it all the time.

by lucc on Sep 27, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

borough fight!

Reasining helps me with matrh!

by elseldo on Sep 27, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

don’t go harshing on my Etobicoke peeps.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Sep 27, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it’s GTA but not really Toronto proper.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Incorrect. GTA is Vaughan, Peel, Durham, Halton. Etobicoke and Scarborough are Toronto. I live south of steeles and have a 416 number. I live in Toronto. My taxes go to Toronto.
What don’t you understand?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

How far north/west are you?

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

What does it fuckin matter, I dont live in Toronto.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Settle down. I was curious.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

still curious.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope you’re not a cat.

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by CanadianMaple09 on Sep 27, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not about to say where I live, but Ford was my councillor so….

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

… so you’re somewhere in the ward of Etobicoke North, which is, as we’ve established, not in Toronto even though it gets to elect a councillor and send him to Toronto city council for some reason.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely

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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

give me your exact address you bastard.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

123 Fake St.

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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait a minute. Fake St only goes up to 100!

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand that Etobicoke joined in amalgamation. I also understand its right next to Mississauga, and pretty damn far from the subway tracks we have now. I’m not saying the TTC is doing a perfect job, but with the funding they have what are they supposed to do to reach the amalgamated areas, that have only been part of Toronto for ~12 years (and it takes a long, long time to build subways even with money)?

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except for Kipling and the east-west line, i should clarify.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

BRT (bus rapid transit) would be a start. Just increasing bus frequencies would help, though they’re being rolled back to pre-Miller standards now.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

FOrd wants to CUT them.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

While the TTC has been mismanaged the real problem is that the transit strategy hasn’t been built around the idea of the GTA as an entity. The TTC should be a regional provider. The whole thing needs an overhaul and lots and lots of federal money.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

We need to adopt Presto technology for one thing. We need to start better integrating the GO trains as regional express trains as well.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would require lots of provincial / federal money, as well as money from the municipalities outside Toronto.

I had this great idea (i think):

Raise the GST back up to 7 cents. Then, redistribute 75% of all money collected back to the municipality/county/lowest level of govmnt in which it was collected (so Toronto gets the tax from money spent in Toronto).

BOOM! Instant major funding increase to the cities, and more importantly a consistent, predictable funding stream (as opposed to hoping the higher levels hand some out in an election year).

And if you don’t believe in taxes and want a refund? Well, contact your mayor/councillor, and participate in local politics, and maybe they’ll give everyone a refund.

by samspade on Sep 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

People always complain about taxes, and they always claim about service cuts. You can’t have it both ways. Reducing the GST was an incredibly short-sighted and stupid decision, but it won’t go back up. It’s easy to lower taxes, it’s very hard to raise them (except, apparently, in Ontario)

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except for Kipling, Islington, Royal York, and Jane.

And Etobicoke was part of metro Toronto (Toronto, York, North York, Etobicoke, Scarborough, etc) before being merged into the mega city. That makes it very much part of Toronto, and not just a far flung part of the GTA

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Sep 27, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is ridiculous. They are part of Toronto. They need to have the SAME service as down town.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
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by BCapp on Sep 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

what? Kipling, Islington, Royal york, Old Mill are all in Etobicoke. Etobicoke is part of Toronto. You’re talking about the burrough of Toronto not the city. Rob Ford’s district is all in Toronto there are no parts outside.

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh no Etobicoke is within the Toronto city limits. GG

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about Scarborough? Is that really Toronto?

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re going to have to go some to get from North Yorkshire to Ontario in an hour.

/here all week

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Sep 27, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks to amalgamation, it is really part of Toronto. Of course, amalgamation is the source of the problem, because that’s how we got a mayor that doesn’t represent the whole city.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rob Ford was the city councillor in my ward for 10 years.

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

you’re so wrong.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Sep 27, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this a fucking joke? He pays taxes to Toronto City Hall, he votes in Toronto’s mayor. I fucking can’t stand when people say that. The city of Toronto includes 5 areas, that includes North york, scarborough, and Etobikoe but everyone seems to like to ignore that and think its just down town toronto.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 27, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

to the detriment of scarborough the yorks and etobicoke

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by Fergus30 on Sep 27, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

This whole idea drives me insane. Its one city, but people in downtown toronto think they are entitled to more stuff because only they are Toronto? Thats FALSE.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 27, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

no one thinks they’re entitled to more stuff because they’re downtown. but let’s not be silly and think you can create all services equally across the city, regardless of population, density, demographic, etc.

i’ll ask the question again – if etobicoke’s truly a part of toronto (which i know it is), why are they able to have their own private garbage collection? why didn’t they suffer with the rest of their toronto brothers and sisters during the garbage strike a couple of summers ago?

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean I could have gone and dumped my crap in Etobicoke?! DAMMIT!! I was so blind!!

By the way, do people in Etobicoke get this riled up when people pronounce it phonetically?

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Take that up with the former mayor

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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

wasn’t that grandfathered in Amalgamation?

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

what the hell does Etobicoke is not really a part of Toronto mean? Are you serious?

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It doesn’t help that TTC fares are being raised to partially compensate for the canceled vehicle tax. Over the course of a year, the average transit rider will pay about an extra $60, which is coincidentally what car drivers will now save. Effectively, the tax burden had been transferred from car drivers to transit riders, who tend to make less money and aren’t contributing to road congestion. How fair is that?

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all, but its the suburban people in the GTA who voted for a car-friendly guy. Everyone knew he was going to do it. You get what you vote for.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah it’s pretty sad. I hope the “giant ferris wheel” BS marks the beginning of his sharp decline.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Suburban Toronto voters are hardly the first to be tricked into voting against their own interests (see all the poor people in the USA who vote Republican). I disagree that they knew what he was going to do, though; they knew what he said he was going to do (fix the budget without making any service cuts) but didn’t have the critical thinking skills to take a minute to wonder how he was going to do it.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you know anything about Rob Ford as a councillor, you know exactly what he was going to do. Ignorance is not a good excuse…“but he SAID he wasn’t going to cut our services…i mean sure, he’s voted against pretty much any new spending for the past 10 years and constantly rails against spending on pretty much everything, but i’m sure he’s changed”.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I do agree that the people who voted for him are getting what they deserve. That’s why I didn’t vote for him. That doesn’t let him off the hook for being a liar, though; that everyone should have known he was only kidding is no excuse.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

people in the GTA don’t get to vote for Rob Ford…

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Sep 27, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

His point stands if you change the wording to “the people in Toronto’s inner suburbs.”

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

then change it, yes it’s semantics, but in this case it’s an important distinction.

Who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

by ohshrit on Sep 27, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did not vote for that.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who are you talking about? Suburban people in the GTA? The GTA does not vote for Toronto’s mayor. Toronto does.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t vote for him and a bunch of other people didn’t either. Do they also get what they deserve?

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately yes. I didn’t vote for Stephen Harper, but Ontario generally did, and as a result we get stuck with the politicians we (the general populace) deserve. I’m not saying just lay there and take it, I’m just saying we get the politicans we deserve. And we apparently deserved ideologically conservative leaders, which makes sense given its a recession and people tend to vote with reactionary instincts during such events.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be precise, more Canadians vote for NOT Conservatives than anything else.

by theninjagreg on Sep 27, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah, its true we have serious electoral problems here. The problem is, you give people a solution (Ontario, BC) and they vote it down. Canadians are very much status-quo people. We don’t like major change.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be honest the solution is don’t let people vote directly on electoral changes. They will be confused and not know what to do. Parliaments should simply vote in electoral reform and proceed from there. People will adapt, and they’ll forget they ever really had a problem with the new system.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

As an outsider

it has always seemed that the Toronto subway was pretty limited compared to other cities. I guess that’s what happens when you don’t grow the subway with the city.

Although Charlotte currently has one light rail line, so I guess I can’t be too harsh.

Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.

by birky on Sep 27, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s exactly right. Go to a developped city with a similar size and you’ll see way more subway. Mind you, they are hard to build here and take a long time. But what’s new? Canada has been living off old infrastructure for a long time, there has been little serious investment in it for decades.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

It depends when the cities ‘grew up’ so to speak. New York and London built their infrastructure long before cars were the primary mode of transportation. Toronto did not.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s partially correct, although cities have also invested in their transit systems a lot since the 1950s, when cars became fully commonplace.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Lots of factors / things to blame. As was noted above(below?), the whole GTA should be viewed as an entity with one interconnected transit system that receives ample Federal and Provincial funding. I’m not holding my breath.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Duh… stop the gravy train and let the JOB CREATORS do their work.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless you’re LA who blew up their subways and streetcars to allow more cars.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

The subway system is terribly limited and needed that overhaul other mayors have planned for years but never gotten to for whatever reason. Even Ford’s simplistic extension probably won’t get done. It’s insane that Toronto has a transit system that is this piss poor – its not like there aren’t any other cities in the world with massive transit systems to learn from.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

THANK YOU.

Confused why people think Aulie is better than Gunnarson. Please ask me to explain
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!

by BCapp on Sep 27, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

So only people who live in downtown Toronto are entitled to having an effective transit system?

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said it shouldn’t get better, but that you can’t expect – with current policies – to get from Etobicoke to downtown Toronto in like 45 minutes. Not gonna happen.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right but our dumb fuck of a mayor thinks an Eglinton line is a great solution. Completely ignore the to northern corners of the city ESPECIALLY the west end

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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

the young line does need a massive extension though

that’s what she said

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is. Its getting 5 more stops going into Vaughan. That will help with traffic BIG time

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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

And it’ll also increase crowding on the subway big time. Good luck getting on a southbound train at Eglinton at rush hour ever again.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well depending on morning or evening. However ya, you’re right

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

MOAR CARZ

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is just it – obviously we need more service to outlying areas, but the system is currently set up to get people to Yonge and Union. The downtown infrastructure needs to be expanded to accommodate the growth of the suburban network, or else that suburban network needs to divert traffic away by creating an east-west corridor at the north end of the city. Otherwise the crowding will lead to people getting pushed onto the tracks at Yonge station during rush hour.

Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

by Nirbo on Sep 27, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he thinks the Eglinton line is a great idea, but just part of Transit City he couldn’t get away with scrapping. It’s the Sheppard line he thinks is a great idea.

by Peter Lynn on Sep 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still haven’t rode the sheppard line. have to find an excuse to do that at some point.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You really don’t

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

He should. He will have his choice of seat as their are like 8 people who are on that train

Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984

by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

my wife I were talking about doing a “TTC tour” a few summers back where we’d try to stop and get out at every station at least once over the course of the summer. Never came together.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll give you the local’s tour of the Sheppard line

Don Mills Station – A mall
Leslie Station – Dropped off at the corner near an IKEA and Canadian Tire.
Bessarion Station – halfway between Leslie and Bayview
Bayview Station – A mall
Yonge/Sheppard – A mall and a few nice restaurants

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leslie Station – Dropped off at the corner near an IKEA and Canadian Tire.

Hey! There’s also a Mark’s Work Wearhouse.

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by puckurgently on Sep 27, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Inside the Canadian Tire

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I buy my pants at that Wearhouse!

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

sheppard is a waste only good thing it does is takes a few blocks off the bus ride to the zoo

Reasining helps me with matrh!

by elseldo on Sep 27, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

“A few blocks” would be six exits on the 401.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, seven

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

it’s still a damn long bus ride to the zoo.

Reasining helps me with matrh!

by elseldo on Sep 27, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I assume you have a metropass.

by 9 Dollar Beer on Sep 27, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do though. I takes me exactly 40 mins to get from islington/Bloor to Bay/Dundas where I work. So what you think is impossible is actually reality.

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s fine, although I think we can all acknowledge there are serious problems facing the TTC in some regions of Toronto. Personally, I want to see the GO and TTC essentially merge (at least in terms of service linkages) to ensure that the system operates as smoothly as possible. That requires money, so it’s NOT going to happen. It just wont. Not if we keep voting for ideological conservatives – they say there is no money, then they spend it on prisons.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

don’t get me started.. I’m unfortunately a reasonable person so no political party appeals to me since amongst each good idea they all have there’s 500 terrible ones.

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Facts? The word “sucks” – in an article comparing Toronto to every other city on the continent – just isn’t doing it for me.

No longer providing fresh fish products for the whole family.

by not norm ullman on Sep 27, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

My public transport system is worse than yours

No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise.

by article1 on Sep 27, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s kinda crummy. It’s on par with Boston, way behind Chicago and NYC.

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by Chemmy on Sep 27, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Never been on Chicago transit. NYC is amazing, but it’s got 4 or 5 times the population in only 1.5-2 times the area. Not really a fair comparison.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its absolutely atrocious.

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by BCapp on Sep 27, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re being ridiculous. I bet you the X% of the population that lives close to the subway or a major streetcar route are fairly satisfied.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly, the TTC is likely the best public transit system in Canada. Try getting around any other Canadian city only on public transit for a while…

by mf37 on Sep 27, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s a good indicator on Canada’s love affair with car culture if anything. It still doesn’t make the TTC a very good transit system.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No.

It’s a good indicator of how poorly the three levels of Canadian government work together and how traffic engineers and developers have dominated urban planning decisions.

It also demonstrates that while the TTC may be sub-optimal, it’s better than any other public transit systems in this country.

by mf37 on Sep 27, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you disagreeing with me, because a lot of what you said agrees with what I said. But yeah, there’s the whole inability for governments to work with each other effectively too, though that plays out on so many levels.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both of you are right – we love car culture because we’re a fucking HUGE country, and driving is the easiest way to get around in many places. That said, we need to shift from that to a public transit, bike and walking friendly culture, at least in cities.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

most of canada’s cities are really spread out and mass transit is both expensive and impractical in many situations

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that city pattern is entirely made possible and reliant on the personal automobile. We love our cars and our yards which has led to urban sprawl.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope, it’s the right way around. Sprawling cities is not a law of nature. The world over people have managed to build cities that have nucleated centres amenable to public transit. Urban sprawl is a choice, not a force of nature.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Sep 27, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

cities with classic urban growth, sure, but cities born of a tiny nucleus of commerce surrounded by farms, or cities like toronto that are an amalgamated mess of older smaller cities joined by infill are different

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could do quite well in Calgary with a “suburbs to downtown” commute (if you live in the north end). It’s horrific trying to get anywhere that isn’t either “local to my quadrant” or “downtown” however.

RIP WB
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Sep 27, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edmonton is the same. Since I live a few blocks from downtown, and only really go to the university area and downtown (all servicable by train), it’s easy for me.

That said, the train is only north-south, so going anywhere on the west or east ends of the city, or anywhere north or south of either end of the LRT, is pretty much impossible.

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Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)

by FiftyMissionCap on Sep 27, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Calgary is a city made for driving. It’s bigger in area than Toronto but with less than half the population. Transit here sucks: my commute to work isn’t too bad, but off peak times you’re waiting 30 minutes or more. Weekends? Once an hour.

by theninjagreg on Sep 27, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

As sad as I am to say it, Ottawa’s is pretty good. Granted, they don’t have close to the same population, but you can get anywhere on the bus or the O-train and they have bus lanes and the transitway to get you there fast.

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by Shield on Sep 27, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I found Vancouver’s transit system really easy to use.

by theninjagreg on Sep 27, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

has to be, or all the pot heads get lost

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ottawa is okay. OC transpo really shits the bed sometimes. I’ve waited 1 hr. for a bus that came every “10 minutes”, no major weather problems. Other times it works perfectly.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago’s does kick ass. DC’s is pretty good too.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro"

by Steve-R on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

DC’s is pretty good too.

On Saturday, the orange line was running one train every 20 minutes. DC Metro blows.

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by Bower Power on Sep 27, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting, I’ve heard the opposite from many people.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t use it a ton, and I know a couple people who commute with it regularly (and without much incident) during the week, but on the weekend, it never seems to be done well.

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by Bower Power on Sep 27, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

It can be a bit of a wait on the weekends (especially when they’re single tracking which is all weekend), unless you actually bother to look up when the trains are coming.

I never do it, but that’s because i don’t mind waiting 15 minutes because its still faster than driving and finding parking downtown.

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by Ubiquitous on Sep 27, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve got the metro app for android, which is usually accurate. Helps cut down on the wait some.

RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter

by Bower Power on Sep 27, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Darche writes that Toronto is the worst of all North American sports cities, and then uses their public transit system as an example of said badness, and you reply… “Chicago’s is better?” Gee.

And also, TTC average daily ridership is 2.5 million (1.25 by subway and streetcar.)
The Chicago Transit Authority does 1.4 million, total. (About 500,000 on the L.)

No longer providing fresh fish products for the whole family.

by not norm ullman on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago was an example of a city that I’ve personally visited whose transit system was far superior.

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by clrkaitken on Sep 27, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok. Glad you liked it. Great city.

No longer providing fresh fish products for the whole family.

by not norm ullman on Sep 27, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Toronto kicks the ever-living shit out of Edmonton. Circle of life.

Case in point, my sister who lives in Toronto complains about waiting 5 minutes for a subway. A 5 minute wait for a subway is what Edmontonians call ‘peak hours.’

Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
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by FiftyMissionCap on Sep 27, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our transit system and idiot mayor has nothing to do with our sports teams.

Emo Girl Wing of Leafs Nation

by Fergus30 on Sep 27, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes it does. it has everything to do with it!

and why weren’t the Marlies included in that list of hate?

Reasining helps me with matrh!

by elseldo on Sep 27, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

AND TIME TO BURN SOME COP CARS!

No longer providing fresh fish products for the whole family.

by not norm ullman on Sep 27, 2011 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

I also love how he credits Burke as probably the best GM in hockey (and Colangelo was high profile too) yet MLSE has egregiously and consistently failed the city – by bringing in the best possible executive talent? That makes sense…

by Dr_Furious on Sep 27, 2011 12:55 PM EDT reply actions  

marche's book

i read the reviews on the main page for the shakespeare book on amazon…. pretty pretty…. pretty bad. something is rotten in the house of marche (namely his writing).

by magecanuck on Sep 27, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

The fans adored local boy Tie Domi, a butcher on skates. His definitive moment, perhaps the definitive moment of the Leafs franchise in the 21st century, was his entirely gratuitous hit on Scott Niedermayer in the dying seconds of Game 4 of the 2001 Stanley Cup second round. At the end of a game in which Toronto tied the series, Domi’s dirty hit handed the momentum over to the Devils, ruining the best chance the Leafs have had in living memory to make the Finals.

They went farther in the playoffs the next year. This guy’s an idiot.

by Matthew Whitty on Sep 27, 2011 1:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Or that time we went the conference finals in consecutive seasons. One of which went to a seventh game.
But yeah, losing in the second round was totally the best chance we had.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The conference final against Carolina only went 6 games, but 3 of the Leafs 4 losses in that series were in overtime (all of them 2-1). So close. So fucking heartbreaking.

I had something really clever to say here. But I forgot.

by daoust on Sep 27, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember being overjoyed when Sundin tied it up at the end there, ran from one end of my house to the other.
Best part was that I had bailed on a date earlier in the evening to watch the game.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 27, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

hate irbe so much

Y'all Heard About Me, You Just Didn't Know It was Me

by JaredFromLondon on Sep 27, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

And each time, the Leafs scored with 1 minute or less left in regulation to send it to OT.

Visit my blog at: http://50-mission-cap.blogspot.com/
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)

by FiftyMissionCap on Sep 27, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shakespeare says: beware the idiocy of Marche. Also, Domi was born in Belle River, he’s not a local boy.

Either you have an enviable memory, or a pitiable life, to know nothing of regret.
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by GreatKingRat on Sep 27, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This moron is going to be on TSN1050Radio in a minute.

by Matthew Whitty on Sep 27, 2011 2:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Truly awful writing, trolling thesis aside. This article wouldn’t have passed muster as a high school essay. I’m compelled to print it out, mark it up with red pen and send it back with a failing grade.

by TomServo42 on Sep 27, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Absolutely fantasic

Emo Girl Wing of Leafs Nation

by Fergus30 on Sep 27, 2011 2:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Just heard him on 1050TSN, holy crap did he ever sound like an ignorant man. He actually said that since 1967 the Leafs have never had a top player

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet the hosts challenged that assertion and didn’t let that type of claptrap stand for long.*
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
*they rolled over for him, didn’t they?

by mf37 on Sep 27, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course not, he told him about Doug Gilmour, Mats Sundin and Cujo and thats just the 90’s!*

*Yes they did

Fairweather fans can go to hell
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by leafer1984 on Sep 27, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish the media would go after each other the way they go after the fans.

by mf37 on Sep 27, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like this?

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 27, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was trying to figure out which one would be Brick….there are too many to keep track of.

The Leafs are my Rushmore
Certified Grabbo Lover and member of the PPPPP
I also write things about stuff over at the Leafs Nation

by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Sep 27, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mats Sundin and Darryl Sittler would like a brief word with him.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

This made me smile.
It’s not that Toronto fans like goons or hate skill; it’s that everyone likes winning. The teams in Toronto that have been successful and captured the heart of the city have been teams that play with a chip on their shoulder. Toronto loves Doug Gilmour. Toronto loves Mats Sundin. Toronto loves Wendel Clark. Toronto loves Borje Salming. Toronto loves skill players who back down from nothing.

Thank you.

by Learn2Leaf on Sep 27, 2011 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Tips when dealing with articles like this

1. Article deals with Toronto and/or its sports teams
2. Check to see host site
3. Host site is either ESPN or one of its American subsidiaries
4. Move cursor to close button
5. Click
6. ?
7. PROFIT!!!

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 27, 2011 3:39 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Another thing that annoys me with blame the fan:

Currently, the Chicago Cubs rank 9th in the MLB for average per game attendance, 8th for total attendance, and 5th for stadium capacity. They also have a record of 70-90, haven’t made the playoffs in 3 years, haven’t won a playoff game in 8 years, and before 2003, hadn’t even won a playoff series since 1908. Which, of course, is their last World Series win.

Now, baseball and hockey are apples in oranges in terms of the playoffs, but still, the Cubs record of futility eclipses the Leafs by a country mile, and yet, their fans still show up. And in showing up, they’re revered. Yet we do the same, and we, as fans, are abused.

It’s like I said yesterday: people just like to rag on the Leafs. No fan base BUT the Leafs get demonized for actually supporting their team through thick and thin.

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Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)

by FiftyMissionCap on Sep 27, 2011 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Not necessarily.

You’ll often hear it said that a day out at Wrigley more closely resembles a singles mixer than it does a baseball game. Just as Leaf fans are labelled sheep, Cubs fans, particularly those in the outfield section, are described as whitebread suburbanites just looking to be seen and looking to hook up.

by JasonTO on Sep 28, 2011 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cathal's rebuttal

Cathal Kelly at the Star can be a Negative Nancy in his own right, but I think his rejoinder to Marche is actually very good.

Overtime loss: The new black.

by Varry Galk on Sep 27, 2011 4:12 PM EDT reply actions  

We can’t control what the teams do on the ice or the court or the field. We can control how that reflects on us. The answer is — it doesn’t.

That’s a good perspective from which to start the discussion again.

The First Certified Grabbo Lover

by SkinnyFish on Sep 27, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cathal Kelly gets it.

I like the guy a lot, though perhaps that is because I don’t really follow soccer.

by samspade on Sep 27, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

He should talk with Damian Cox Blox sometime.

by Goosemonster on Sep 27, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

he should

beat Cox up sometime. now would be nice.

by Fanamaniac on Sep 27, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s because he’s a journalist under 67 years old who….I picked the wrong age.

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please

don’t read the comments on this article. God damn

"If you've ever questioned whether or not @dboyce47 is a gamer, well, the answer is as plain as the nose that used to be on his face." - Sean Boulton

by AM18 on Sep 27, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty standard warning for the Star site in general.

Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

by Nirbo on Sep 27, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thought the piece itself was a pretty good rejoinder though.

Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?

by Nirbo on Sep 27, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

don’t read the comments on any Leaf related article unless it’s located in the Barlikosphere. The Barlikosphere is the last safe haven for sane Leaf fans. Everyone else is either a rabid hater or a lost soul on the wrong website.

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s like they want me to hate them

"If you've ever questioned whether or not @dboyce47 is a gamer, well, the answer is as plain as the nose that used to be on his face." - Sean Boulton

by AM18 on Sep 27, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really liked Grantland. I’ve read maybe 5-10 articles on there and they’ve tended to be well written and insightful.

I really wasn’t expecting this one to be the unmitigated pile of crap that it was. I has a sad.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Sep 27, 2011 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Personally, I like grantland, but I find it very hit or miss. Some of their stuff is great, particularly that by Chris Jones and Jonah Keri, but a lot of it seems like they’re throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

That said, this piece was garbage. The argument in itself isn’t totally awful, by that I mean I would listen to an argument proposing it because it isn’t totally outlandish, but the way the author goes about it is just horrible. Terrible examples to back up his points and errors all over the place. Pure slop.

by Five Minutes For Fighting on Sep 27, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its great to be back.

This article was pretty much a frustrating waste of time for me… but catching up on all the above comments has been the most productive and entertaining half hour since following PPP last season.

Finally we've stopped refining; rebuilding and begun to work with what we have... I guess...

by LeafsLover on Sep 27, 2011 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

We should have known better. 100 years of history of hockey in Toronto, fans ALL OVER THE WORLD that would love to see a game even if they are losing doesn’t mean shit when you traded two first rounds picks for Kessel.

by Orriginal on Sep 27, 2011 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

First round pick passes to 3rd round pick, back to first round pick SCORES!!! I think First round pick is going to win the Conn Smythe this year, Bob.That just might be, Greg. Here comes Crosby catching the 9th round pick on a bad line change. Holy Mackinaw what a save by the other 1st round pick!!! Good thing the Leafs traded all their current players for these picks, Greg, boy can they play!

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t believe McCown had him on Prime Time tonight….it was an absolute embarrassment.

These aren't the droids you're looking for.....

by TheNadger on Sep 27, 2011 6:54 PM EDT reply actions  

McCown is an embarrassment in and of himself. Normally his guests are great. I guess he just wants to not be the worst on air all of the time.

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by PPP on Sep 27, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

McCown is like a bitter alcoholic or something.

October 25, 1966. Thank you Lord Kelvin

by Chuck Diesel on Sep 27, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here is a decent reply to Marche’s article. The tweets below the article are comedic.

by jeffgm on Sep 28, 2011 12:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Some of those tweets are pretty awesome

These aren't the droids you're looking for.....

by TheNadger on Sep 28, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

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