Having the Instinct Coached Right Out of You
by SkinnyFish on Jan 2, 2012 7:01 AM EST
in From The Branches
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Reminded of Kadri... - Michael Langlois at Vintage Leaf Memories
The elder Wilson was quoted as saying, "I was a left winger. I don’t know how I’d react to all this coaching today. (In my day, as a player) I’d go out there and react to the situations as they transpire. I’d do it instinctively. Today, you’ve got somebody telling you, you shouldn’t do this, you shouldn’t do that. I think I’d go out there and be too afraid of making a mistake."The comment is of particular interest to someone like myself, because I am old enough to actually remember watching Johnny Wilson play in the NHL, and I, too, have seen such a massive shift in the way the game is played in this era, compared with the 1950s and ‘60s, particularly.Given the passage of time, I guess that's not a shock, eh? Oh, sure, hockey is the same sport, but it’s a very, very different game these days. It’s not just that the players are bigger and faster, though that certainly contributes. But players are able to do such high-skill moves at lightning speed that it's, well, quite remarkable. And beyond that, the game is, of course, coached in such fine—sometimes excruciating—detail.
Time and again I've found myself watching Leafs games and saying out aloud "This is a team that's being over-coached". The way they move the puck on the PP is robotic, pedantic, and scripted. The constant turnovers from East-West passes inside their own blue line are too frequent and similar to be random occurrences. Drop pass, after drop pass, after drop pass. Contrary to Johnny Wilson's time, this team, outside of a few players, plays with very little instinct and it shows.
More links after the jump.
Leafs Links
BCP thinks Burke should trade for a goalie. I do not.
Maple Leafs Hope 2012 is Reimer Time
Or just "Reimer playing average on the PK" time or whatever.
LeafsHQ looks into all the huxtable about the ACC crowd.
Leafs Need to Improve Penalty Kill
Duh.
Other Links
The Winter Classic Drinking Game
Good luck making it to the first commercial break with your liver intact.
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I dunno...
I have to disagree. I find that the Leafs are insanely undercoached, and the things upon which they are coached, are coached wrong. I find that most of their turnovers in their own end are caused by blatant north/south passes up the wall where no one is there to receive it. I understand the concept of throwing the puck somewhere else to get out of trouble, but there has to be a player on either wall for support to either get to the puck first, or to win an ensuing battle. I find that the short east/west passes have been getting them out of trouble most of the time. Either way this team needs a completely different strategy in their own end.
Interesting perspective. Maybe that’s why we’ve seen some success in recent years with our young players (taking away their instinct to do stupid things), but yet see them and other older players plateau quite low (see: Schenn).
And I’m still dubious of how much Wilson is responsible for the development of our young players. Kadri, like a lot of guys, only seemed to improve after spending a lot of time with Dallas Eakins on the Marlies.
The most frustrating part for me is that a lot of the same issues this team had 2 seasons ago are still here. Even ignoring the lousy PK, the Leafs still have a horrible time clearing the zone, and are prone to all kinds of horrific giveaways. A lot of times these are the direct result of what looks like set breakout plays. Surely a sign of overcoaching.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 10:04 AM EST reply actions
It appears Philippe Dupuis has been activated from IR and Korbinian Holzer has been sent down to #Marlies per NHL Roster #leafs
Don’t worry guys! Philippe Dupuis will triumphantly return and fix the Leafs PK woes!
Seriously though, why wasn’t Aulie sent down instead?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Because management is invested in Aulie emotionally and they’re determined to prove that they’re right about him. Either that or they think he’s good trade bait and that he’ll have more value if they keep trying to make him look like an NHL-ready defender.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Jan 2, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
also
they play different sides I think.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I definitely thought Holzer should have been given a shot, even for just one game, scratch Aulie and put him in.
We have so much young talent on D, the problem is that they are too young yet to be fully relied upon. We all know d-men take longer to develop and when you have 3 d-men 22 and under and the other 3 in their mid twenties, you’r bound to have problems despite the potential that’s there.
Believe it or not we really need someone like Komisarek back, if he can play as good as he was earlier in the season he should really improve our D corps.
Ps. Anyone else petrified of Stamkos’ PP slapper for tomorrow night?
Bleeding Blue and White since '88
by Joe Ferguson on Jan 2, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
stay out of the box.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I just remembered that Burke got Dupuis has an upgrade to Tim Brent… I miss Tim Brent..
Changing my "Goat of The Year" player from Armstrong to Kulemin
Ayup. I had this same conversation with Mirtle a few weeks back and he feels the same way; no reason to get rid of Brent for Dupuis.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
there are a lot of lateral moves like that that I never understand. replacement-level guys should all provide similar levels of production. some (like Steckel) will bring a specific talent. What Dupuis brings I’ll never understand.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I am of the belief that the 3rd and 4th lines give a team its character, and generally many of the team’s fan favorites. Tucker and Domi were the perfect example of this. I though Brent endeared himself quite well to Toronto fans and should have been retained.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Cap Management 101; you don’t overpay your third and fourth liners a couple hundred K each.
Leafs are already overpaying Armstrong, Brown and Orr. Brent loses value when he’s getting 750K as opposed to 550.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
i dont think brown is overpaid, orr and armstrong yes
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 12:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
736k caphit till 2013/2014. I remember when he was first signed the length was strange.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
mike brown is excellent at his job, he provides loads of energy, he hits hard, skates really fast and has a decent shot, i think it was a great contract
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 1:01 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It’s just too bad that his style of play results in him being hurt so much.
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Jan 2, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
i didnt know he was often injured?
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 1:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Paper groin last 2 years
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
by Redonred on Jan 2, 2012 1:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
He’s only played 18 games this year. Only played 50 last year (not all because of injury, but enough because of it).
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Jan 2, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
i cant remember where i read it but grabovski could fetch up to 5mil per next year? i find this hard to believe
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 12:57 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Well other than Parise there isn’t much out there for UFA next year:
http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?year_id=2012&team_id=-1&position_id=F&fa_type_id=2
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
we wont even be able to sign him at that rate
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 1:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Hence my seat at the front of the “Trade Grabovski For All the Tea in China at the Deadline” train.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
i wonder what kuli is worth then? less
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 1:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Kuli is not scoring so he can resign with the Leafs for cheap.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
He’s an RFA. Why would we trade him away? Burke will re-sign him on the cheap and let him outplay his contract.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
The only way im leaving Team #Re-SignGrabovski is if both Grabovski and Kulemin get traded together for 1 really good player or pick… it just feels wrong to separate them.
#BestFriends
#TooManyHashTags
#Thisisn’tTwitter
No no, dig UP stupid.
can we even afford to resign grabbo at around 5 mil per and keep liles, franson, kuli ect.
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 3:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
i get the feeling either grabbo or liles goes
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 3:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
both
should go.
screw sentimentality.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
pretty much, deadline fodder unless the Leafs are a legit cup contender
which i strongly doubt
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
we won’t be able to afford Grabbo after we sign Parise
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
So to be clear, are you in favour of playing Colborne for all of this year and next year on the Marlies?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Moving Liles has nothing to do with moving Grabbo.
One of Grabbo or Bozak has to go to make room for Colborne in the top 9.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
grabbo will fetch more in a trade and be more expensive to resign
it will probably be grabbo
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I said that yesterday, but cheapshot disagreed.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
I think you keep good players.
And I don’t think the Leafs get better as a team by perpetually dealing pending UFAs because we have a young C who may or may not ever be as good as Grabovski coming up. I feel that’s one thing the Islanders and Oilers keep doing and a team can’t win games on potential alone.
We’ll see what kind of contract he’s looking at getting but I think he’s worth more to TO than anything we’d ever get at the deadline.
We let Grabovski walk (or trade for much less than I think people here are expecting) because we “hope” Colborne will end up earning a Top 9 spot? What if he doesn’t?
Don’t worry guys – I almost never get my way anyway. See Richards, Brad.
No no, dig UP stupid.
Either way
I’m off until the 15th.
Keep fighting the good fight gentlemen and ladies.
Go Leafs Go.
No no, dig UP stupid.
about time he left we’ve been waiting for that.
by Nigel Cadbury on Jan 2, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
well i guess my point is we wont have the cap space to sign grabbo, not because we have an up and coming C who needs a spot. and i think liles is more valuable to us then a third line C.
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 5:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
we already have bozak, kadri, lombardi, steckel, colbourne and connolly, why do we need grabbo so bad? give liles a 1 year extension and move grabbo and insert lombardi
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 5:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
isnt it past your bedtime? and lombardi concussion = colboner time
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 6:05 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah teams are totally lining up to give away a great player or pick for two pending free agents that aren’t as effective as the year before.
Come on…
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Kaber….le?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Kulemin and Grabbo for Superstar X is an NHL 12 deal.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
do we have the cap to sign him for 4.5 next year?
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 3:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
assuming liles is back?
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 3:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Too many variables to say for sure, but assuming he can be signed for 4.5, that’s only a 1.6 increase. Seems doable, but then it forces either Colborne or Bozak out of the lineup.
Bozak and Connolly are UFAs next season; I guess you could re-sign Grabovski, keep Colborne waiting in the A and move one of Bozak or Connolly during the year.
Betteer question is why bring back Liles? He was a Kaberle placeholder until Gardiner or Blacker was ready. Gardiner’s farther ahead than they thought, there’s been speculation Blacker isn’t too far off, and we need a defensive stalwart much more than we need Liles’ offence.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
i think keeping our pp quarterback and dealing our 3rd line center would be a good move
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 4:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
i also dont think gardiner is ready to fill that spot yet
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 4:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Franson, Phaneuf, and Gunnarsson can all play the powerplay. Connolly even.
Who on the Leafs can be trusted to play heavy D minutes, other than apparently Gunnarsson.
Liles replaced Kaberle but they never replaced Beauchemin. Gardiner’s not ready to take Kaberle’s old spot, but Schenn and Aulie aren’t ready to take Beauchemin’s either.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
i agree with moving grabbo
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 1:29 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
and what could we getfor him?
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 1:37 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Less useful.
If you had the moon on a stick, you could control the tides and get up to all sorts of supervillain shenanigans.
Paedophiles are using an area of internet the size of Ireland.
Souds more like a Dean Martin reference
When the moons on a stick-You can give it a lick-Thats Anore.
Brent’s metrics with the ’Canes are god-awful.
All hockey all the time at The Globe and Mail
by James Mirtle on Jan 2, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
actually, his CorisRel was pretty awful last year too.
probably because it doesn’t account for his amazing PK abilities. /notsureifimserious
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Brent
isn’tparticularly good at anything. replacement level in all aspects. just not worth a one way deal.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Brent signed a 2-year, 1-way deal, Dupuis signed a 1-year, 2-way deal. What I don’t understand is why we replaced Boyce with Dupuis. Boyce brings just as much grit and also scores every once in a while.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Dupuis had
killed penalties in the NHL regularly with COL and done so well. Boyce hadn’t even with TOR
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I’m at work downtown in Chicago, and it’s creepy how empty everything is… it’s like the apocalypse came 11 months early
by Chi-town leafs on Jan 2, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
My drive to work this morning could have been at 200Km/h, that’s how empty the streets were. Very strange feeling.
by Kessel'sOversizedSuit on Jan 2, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
you didnt hear about the zombie outbreak?
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 2, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Ha, I felt like I should have a trusty German Shepard with me I am Legend Style this morning
by Chi-town leafs on Jan 2, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t use my vacation time last summer, so I took an extended Christmas vacation instead.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
off
until next Mon. I’m in MTL atm actually.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I just left Montreal. We should have gotten together to pointlessly argue semantics.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
i
just arrived. ships passing in the night.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Heading there tomorrow. you should probably wear leafs jerseys to a habs games .
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 2, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
leaving
on weds. they play WPG on weds night.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
DiManno Article...
Personally I hate when she writes a hockey article, but I haven’t seen any links or mention of it yet… It’s pretty Inflammatory.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1109362—dimanno-wilson-s-act-growing-weary
Ron Wilson can Twitter-gloat all he likes, maybe even conduct a Q & A with himself as befits the smartest man in the room.
Then he can wax sarcastic whilst both sucking and blowing.
Whatever tweets the Leaf coach launches into the blogosphere via yips over the mainstream media’s head, it is becoming painfully apparent that his words are not being absorbed or heeded in the only room that counts — the dressing room. Pay no attention to ‘aye-sir rah-coach’ mea-culpa commentary for Wilson from the players. They may be PK-stupid but they’re not fools.
Changing my "Goat of The Year" player from Armstrong to Kulemin
not everyone with a bone to pick is ‘butthurt’. can’t a MSM criticize Wilson without us accusing them of being petty, jealous, small, and moronic.
while DiManno may be all of those things, of all the MSMers I suspect she has the least contact with Wilson, so the commentary seems less likely to be personal.
plus, butthurt is an idiotic expression.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
True, but the article reads a if she’s been personally insulted by RW..
Changing my "Goat of The Year" player from Armstrong to Kulemin
Agreed, It is not a well thought out argument. It just sounded like " he’s a big mean doodoohead "
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 2, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Either she’s missing the point entirely or she’s assuming the Leafs’ players have missed the point entirely.
Burke’s made it pretty clear he’s holding his players accountable for their play. If there’s actually someone on this Leafs team that thinks that by tuning Wilson out they can get him fired and get a new voice in the room, then that player hasn’t been paying attention the last three years, and they’re going to find themselves with the new address instead of the coach.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Disagree.
Butthurt is a wonderful expression.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
how so?
show your work.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with this statement
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 12:48 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
An inappropriately strong negative emotional response from a perceived personal insult. Characterized by strong feelings of shame. Frequently associated with a cessation of communication and overt hostility towards the “aggressor.”
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Well, it’s either a sexual reference or it implies that someone is mad that they got their ass kicked, but I don’t really know which.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Why do you think it’s called “*butt*hurt”? Do you think the word was chosen randomly? Why isn’t it hearthurt or something?
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
exactly.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
In this case, though, she can’t keep straight whether it’s the players or the media who are tired of Wilson’s ‘caustic nature’. The thought process seems to have been “I don’t like when Wilson is rude to me, but no one will care about that, so I’ll write about how the players are tired of it instead.”
In the court of public opinion, Steve Simmons is Lionel Hutz.
If there’s one thing I like about Wilson, it’s the way he has trolled the entire Toronto media with his tweets.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
DiManno Article…
Personally I hate when she writesa hockey article
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
we need mike brown back!!!
by power-forward on Jan 2, 2012 11:36 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Eakins told Kadri
if you keep playing the way you are you wont be pkaying at all. This was after his last demotion to the Marlies. Eakins said Kadri was trying to be a one man show. Not his exact words but you get the drift. Eakins knows how to coach the younger players better than Wilson. Remember last year when Wilson had Kadri in the press box for most of his 17 game up to the leafs because he felt Kadri was’nt good enough. this means Wilson should have sent Kadri back down so he could get more playing time and progress at whatever rate he is capable of instead of being a fixture in the press box. Trade Wilson for Eakins. It is a move that makes scence for the blue and white.
If Eakins is better at developing young players as you claim, then isn’t he more suited to be the AHL coach?
I thought the whole point of this whole rebuild was so that the Leafs didn’t keep trying to develop their players at the NHL level? If that’s the case then you probably don’t want your best development coach in the NHL.
And Kadri played 16 games in a row during his first call-up last season; he was then scratched for 4 out of 5 games but was then sent back down to the Marlies. So that doesn’t really jive with what you’re saying above.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I think it’s become clear that a lot of Leafs fans wanted a 1 or 2 year rebuild and now aren’t going to be happy with anything other than constant playoff appearances.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
I think it’s become clear thata lot ofLeafs fans wanted a 1 or 2 year rebuild and now aren’t going to be happy with anything other than constantplayoff appearances.
Essentially this.
No no, dig UP stupid.
So we’d rather barely squeak into 7th or 8th place every year with an aging roster than accept a bad team for a while as we build around what will become a good, young core. Got it.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
i'm not
part of we then…
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jan 2, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We have Kessel for another two years. Do you think T.O. can resign him if we don’t make a playoff spot by then?
yes
because we’ll offer him loads if dough. also we’ll make the playoffs within 2yrs.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
he didn't
give up much. he’s making loads of cash.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Money isn't everything.
The glory of winning the cup is.Ask any player what he wants more than anything and he will tell you it is his name on the cup. That is what is the driving force behind hockey players.
his other
real option was Nashville not Boston. They haven’t won a cup either….
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
I think people are wondering what happened to Burke’s “shortcut”
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
it never
existed.
Mike Komisarek killed it.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
then
Vesa Toskala ate it… and left for Finland never to return.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Yes
He came into T.O. and boasted that they need to win now. So he broke up the team and after a year or so of failing called it a rebuild. Politics will never die.
what? he broke apart the team as soon as he possibly could, moving NTC’s arn’t exactly easy
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe so
So how do you explain Ottowo totaly ripping thier team apart last year and are now 2 points ahead of the leafs and in a play off spot
Totally ripping apart the team? What key pieces did they move last year?
"If you've ever questioned whether or not @dboyce47 is a gamer, well, the answer is as plain as the nose that used to be on his face." - Sean Boulton
This is a tweet.
goaltending, you are forgetting just how bad Toskala was
also ottawa didn’t get rid of too many NTCs players outside of Fisher, and the only other significant player they moved was Kelly.
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
For starters, when Toronto ripped apart its team we didn’t have anything approaching Spezza and Alfredsson.
Second, Michalek’s shooting 19.8%, Foligno 17.2%, fucking Zenon Konopka is 16.7%, Zack Smith is 15.7% and Peter Regin is 13.3%. That’s not holding up.
They’re actually reminiscient of the 2008 and 2009 Leafs; they look way better than they actually are because guys are having career years in opportunities they’ll never otherwise get. Their defence and goaltending are horrendous.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
also note, Craig andersons horrendous year = a 898 SV%
Toskalas = 874
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
In the years
pre burke we were a team that got 81 to 83 points. so with burke we are no better with 85 last year and a projected 87 this year. Where is the improvement. Ottawa had 74 points last year and barring unforseen injuries will stay ahead of the leafs.
Capgeek has us tied with Nashville as the 2nd youngest team in the league.
Surely you see the difference between a team full of older players and soon-to-be-UFAS coming into their prime getting 80ish points and a team led by young players either just starting or still 2-3 years away from their prime getting 80ish points.
It seems insane this still needs to be explained to people.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
So explain to me
when Burke came into Leafland it was win now but after more than a year at his job it became a 4 or 5 year rebuild.
Ottawa had 74 points last year and barring unforseen injuries will stay ahead of the leafs.
that is assuming a lot, it assumes the Leafs are the bad team they have been for the past month and the sens are the good team they have been the past month
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Zack Smith has scored 11 goals in 39 games after scoring 6 goals in 71 games in his career before that.
He’s not scoring 25 goals this year.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
You don't know for sure
That is like saying Kessel scored 50 this year and never will repeat. It comes down to making the best of the opportunities as they cum
Nobody in the league shoots at 17% consistently.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
If any of Michalek, Smith, or Foligno’s shooting percentages start to decline over the second half of the season, Ottawa’s cooked because they’ re29th in the league in GA.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Scruffy believes in this unsustainable offence.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jan 2, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Kessel
or lupul get injured or have a bad second half then the leafs are cooked. As you can see there are too many variables. so your arguement is mute.
so your arguement is mute.
Apparently, since you’re not hearing a fucking word that’s being said.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Jan 2, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
shocked I’m the first to rec this. A++, would watch burn again.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
I nearly pissed myself.
Also, that was funny…
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 3, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
what they’re saying is that statistics suggests Ottawa’s s% is impossible to sustain and that they will crash based on the laws of averages. So their argument is far from mute. Ottawa doesn’t need injuries to crash.
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
At 5 vs 5, Ottawa’s scored 79 and given up 84, a -5 differential.
At all other situations they’ve scored 37 and given up 47, a -10 differential.
At 5 vs 5, Toronto’s scored 74 and given up 72, a +2 differential. At all other situations they’ve scored 43 and given up 51, a -8 differential.
So even with their horrific special teams, the Leafs have been slightly better than Ottawa from a goal differential perspective, and they’re significantly better at 5 vs. 5.
Even strength play is the best measure of a teams’ prolonged success and the number pretty plainly show that the Leafs are a better ES team than the Sens.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Toronto also has played just 17 games at home (8-5-4) and 21 on the road (10-10-1)
Ottawa’s played 20 at home (11-8-1) and 19 on the road (8-7-4)
You could make a pretty compelling argument that the only reason Ottawa’s 2 points ahead of Toronto right now is because the Leafs have a game in hand.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
TO’s had a ton of injuries. And no Kessel and Lupul can’t keep the team running. Your original point was that Burke lied about a 2 year rebuild. Our rebuttal was that he was never on a 2 year rebuild and couldn’t have been with that sad sack of shit of a team that he inherited. Someone pointed out that he always traded to get younger. The Leafs are a young team that’s not playoff ready. He’s trying to create a team that grows together and peaks together. Your point was that Ottawa rebuilt and is ahead of the Leafs already. Our point is that they didn’t blow up their team like we did since they only got rid of Kelly and Fisher. Our other point is that the Leafs never had anything like Alfredsson and Spezza to work with. Your point that Burke is a liar/bad GM is invalid. This team is on a nice upward trajectory and if you have been watching the Leafs since 67 then you’ve been through the 80’s where we traded all our kids for shit and so you can’t possibly be asking us to make trades now to accelerate our return to oblivion after a couple of shitty playoff appearances.
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
Well
I guess I am too old for you guys and ladies. I have lived through every rebuild that never appeared so maybe I an getting too cynicle to believe Burke on any his propoganda of the team and when they will be ready. Sorry if I offended anyone Good Night and have a great 2012
Eh, don’t worry about it. It’s just hockey, is just a game. No reason anyone haff be mad about differing opinions about how the team should be handled.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
you haven’t offended anyone. We’re having a debate.
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
My wife wont let me.
Isnt Canada Juniors playing in about 3 hours? Just enough time to nap and soooooooooooooooooober up. Also how did you know I ownly way 145 lbs. Look I can"t typy anymore. Goodnight and God Bless. The best line ever spoken and it was from Red Skelton if any of you ever seen his show. It was his closing line in the 50s. Love you all!
I for one am glad that he realized it wasn’t working. He made some good trades last year to bring in some good, young assets like Gardiner and Colborne. I’m not a fan of all of the moves Burke has made, but at least he seems open to changing his strategy when it isn’t working.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
PK Subban and Plekanec fight...
Don’t know why, but I imagine Kaberle to be the reason
Changing my "Goat of The Year" player from Armstrong to Kulemin
Was it Blake who fought Grabbo when Grabbo was still in his batshit crazy phase?
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
I hope so
Either way, thank the fucking LORD Dupuis is gone
99% of player salaries are payed out to only 1% of players. #OccupyNHL
I'm a Twitter twat.
The fucking lord?
Does that mean I have to send a letter of gratitude to Ron Jeremy?
Paedophiles are using an area of internet the size of Ireland.
Don’t think Browns back yet. Dupuis wasn’t playing anyways so Boyce or someone would have to be sent down if he was.
Bleeding Blue and White since '88
by Joe Ferguson on Jan 2, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
it’s amazing what years of disappointment will do to one’s expectations.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Jan 2, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
To all P.P.P. members.
None of you ever heard of me before yesterday so I will let you in on a little bit about myself. I was a witness to the last time the leafs won the cup. I was 16 at the time. I Went through the Ballard years unhappily and I played every Fri. night for years. Hated Orr- Loved sittler – Mac Donald – Salming and most other Leafs Extra specially Keon. My personal fave. Saw Quinn hit orr with a good check and still got sent to the box. Some things will never change. I hope I didn’t piss to many people off with my comments but I am a punny person and my punishment was 5 to 10 in the punitentury. Hope to have a lot of good times with you guys and apple oliguise for any comments I may have inflicted. Or is that inserted?
by wtf now on Jan 2, 2012 12:46 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I wikipedia’d you. You old as fuck.
Welcome aboard! Thanks for joining.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Welcome aboard.
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 2, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Welcome aboard! Always good to have someone who actually remembers ’67.
Not followin' @JPNikota on Twitter? Oh, you better believe that's a paddlin'.
Holy shit. I just found out that Gunnarsson only makes $1.325million. And will still be an RFA. He is my hero.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
Holy shit. I just found out that Gunnarsson only makes $1.325million. And will still be an RFA.HeBurke is my hero.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
Thirty games played and Dupuis was never on the ice for a 5-on-5 goal for. That’s hard to do.
Too bad we spend 99% of our time on the PK
At least it's not Lebda.
not really since the PK is usually over in about 30 seconds
Toronto Maple Leafs: All about the Lemon Grabs
Twitter
Leafs have been shorthanded 178 times for a total of 232.75 minutes. Average PK time of 1:18.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Do you know what the average PK time is League wide?
I suppose it’d be closer to 2 min for teams with good Pk’s, but I’d be interested to see how much closer
by Chi-town leafs on Jan 2, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
To the Mathmobile
Average Time per Time Shorthanded for the league is – 1:39
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
21 seconds sounds like a pretty significant deviation from the average, which I suppose reflects our awful PK
by Chi-town leafs on Jan 2, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
But doesn’t the stat show 148 times on the kill including all the short penalties because of overrides. As an example Leafs get a 26 second power play when thier player comes back on the ice. This counts as a power play even though it is a short one.
I made a spreadsheet
And yes, there are instances where you have overlapping penalties causing shortened PKs and what not, but those occur for every team and as such it evens itself out.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Thanks for the spreadsheet
This makes it a bit easier for newbies to understand the references of stats. They said my screen wasn’t big enough to display said spreadsheet properly. Does this mean I need a bigger T.V. or can I formatt it myself? I am so cumputer illitarate
where did you get those stats?…………NHL.com has the leafs as 148 times shorts handed
Toronto Maple Leafs: All about the Lemon Grabs
Twitter
here
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?season=20112012&gameType=2&viewName=penaltyKillTime#?navid=nav-sts-teams
I will stand beside him with an axe! @theninjagreg
Phaneuf and Cronin disagreeing on penalty kill and shotblocking strategy here. A bit tense. #leafspowwowWhose ever preaching for the status quo is obviously wrong here. I’m guessing it’s Cronin.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Good to Phaneuf is concerned and trying to make a difference. That is if he is not the advocate to continue the current style.
The PK is just soooo non-aggressive. Way too much time and space for the other teams and no mater how good you are at blocking lanes and shots, skilled teams will find a way to score with that type of strategy in place.
Bleeding Blue and White since '88
except they aren’t good at blocking lanes, their sticks are no where near where they should be to deflect or intercept passes through the box.
and yes, very laid back PK
Toronto Maple Leafs: All about the Lemon Grabs
Twitter
Yeah I don’t understand why things are so passive, the PK’s our PP has trouble with are the aggressive PK’s where someone is always attacking the puck carrier
by Chi-town leafs on Jan 2, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Er, are we watching the same PK?
They are aggressive. They just don’t clear the puck and get burned while trying to regroup.
You can’t just have all four guys chasing the puck all over the goddamned ice. You have to be aggressive on the puck carrier but the other guys have to take away the passing lanes. It’s easy to say the Leafs do a bad job of this but then the whole point of a PK is you have one less guy than the other team.
They’ve improved significantly in letting teams move the puck around the outside at will for a one-timer. The problem is they simply don’t get the goddamned puck out of the zone.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Apparently Steckel was yelling at Cronin on the bench about the PK in the last game too, and he sounded pissed about it after the game.
I honestly just can’t figure out this fronting nonsense. It gives the other team two improved scoring chances:
1) on the initial shot, because the defender is screening the goalie
2) on any rebounds that happen, because there’s a forward in behind the defence
It drives me batty that they’re still at it.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
It’s Cronin. Although at this point, everyone’s involved.
All hockey all the time at The Globe and Mail
prob is
phaneuf sucks at shot blocking … always has.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
you can suck at something and still know what you are talking about
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I suck at both math and hockey, and yet . . .
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
those who can do, those who cannot teach
by Nigel Cadbury on Jan 2, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
mirtle James Mirtle
Komisarek says he feels he can be back this week.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
Now we just need JML back
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 2, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Did this in my spare time
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
by Frag on Jan 2, 2012 1:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It was the only free one, sorry.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
Why does it burn????
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
In what should be banner worthy news
The Leafs have waived Dupuis
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
and I just saw the other comment. oops
My rambling tweets
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing - Vince Lombardi
Things you find on the internet...Anyone remember nexopia.com?
I’m sure Tyler Bozak does.
if anyone wants the link to this —> http://www.nexopia.com/users/Bozie11/
Ladies love us. Guys want to be us. We are the soul of the universe.
damn. that kind of makes me hate bozak a bit. although i guess i should just assume most hockey players in their early 20s are shitheads.
That's "Da-ooo". I killed a turkey once, with a shovel.
haha this is funny, plus every girl in those pictures is super hot, or are they the same? can’t tell
@phoking_awesome
my blog, "The Silver Fox", check it out!
by pho king awesome on Jan 2, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, Bozak’s married? Or he only dates married ladies?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Jan 2, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Leafs FO% between Bozak, Steckel & Connolly for October, November & December.
by newfiecutie on Jan 2, 2012 2:27 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I feel like graph makers aren't getting enough love lately.
Nice work & rec’d.
Steckel isn’t exactly Superhuman anymore, but he’s still a damn good faceoff man.
If he’s actually our 4C on a full roster that’s a useful 4C.
No no, dig UP stupid.
Expect Jonas Gustavsson to get the start Tuesday against the Tampa Bay Lightning. “We’ll be spreading the goaltending out in the next little while,” Wilson said.
Trolling or telling?
At least it's not Lebda.
who knows?
I’d like to think that’s because Gustavsson’s career sv% vs. Tampa is .920, and that right now his PK SV% is better than Reimer’s, so it’s Wilson trying to play the numbers again.
That or he’s not happy with what Reimer said after the game last time and he’s taking away his start to prove a point.
Fi-re Wil-son! Clap-Clap Clap-Clap-Clap!!!
by Peter de Chatham on Jan 2, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Occam’s Razor
January 11 games in 22 days, then a week off for the ASG
February – 15 games in 30 days (including Jan 31)
March – 15 gams in 29 days.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Sounds more like Murphy’s law to me.
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 2, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
What I mean is that it’s not some ploy by Wilson to implicate Reimer through the media for underperforming.
The team’s playing a shit-ton of hockey in the next 3 months and both goalies have a history with injuries. If he rode one into the ground he’d get crucified and apparently some are going to look for hidden meanings other than “We have a rough schedule coming up and I don’t want my goalies to die”
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I'm going to the game tomorrow
If Gus gets the start, I’m going to be pissed, although I understand why they would want to start him given Reimer’s struggles of late.
99% of player salaries are payed out to only 1% of players. #OccupyNHL
I'm a Twitter twat.
by MLS on Jan 3, 2012 1:26 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Bringing back M. Staal for the Winter Classic
screams “we did this for HBO and Drama rather than player health”.
Dumb risk by the organization IMO.
No no, dig UP stupid.
Absolutely
Which is why I can see why Burke wouldn’t want to participate in something like this.
This, in my eyes, officially makes it a “sideshow”.
No no, dig UP stupid.
It's not surprising at all
There are so many Canucks on the teams it only make sense to make them feel at home even though they are on an American team.
yeah. that’s, pretty weird, but then anthems before the games at all is weird when you think about it, this isn’t international play
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Jan 2, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Alexei Pokahonsky
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
BTW
Brayden Schenn gets his first NHL goal in the Winter Classic
F|73RR08 The fan and artist formally known as FLYERROB ~ I do not advocate to be the comments of any fan base or any NHL Team but rather my own individual self ~ if that upsets you - Sorry. ~ Lori Wilson Gray ~ April 07th 1967 - May 27th 2011 ~ Bob Wilson JR. ~ July 03rd 1944 - November 06th 2011 ~ ~ I love you Sis & Dad !
Not that your first isn’t always special but to get it on a big stage like that is pretty cool.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Jan 2, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
can anyone tell me what the X means for seating at the ACC. Example: Section 313 Row 17X/
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
I think it means obstructed? Not sure, could also mean standing. I just realized I am of no help. Carry on….
When losing an argument on the internet, be sure to attack someones grammar. That is the only way to save face.
lol It’s all good I’m just going to assume it means awful.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"He drives that new car around town and feels really good about it." - Ron Wilson
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
"HOPE is more than a postponed disappointment" - Epica
Try this
http://www.seats3d.com/nhl/toronto_maple_leafs/
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Jan 2, 2012 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There are two section with a freaking concrete wall right next to you. Avoid.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
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