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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Shut Down Defensemen - Part 1

How often have we heard the idea that defensive blue liners are a "dime a dozen" in the NHL? Probably far more than we should frankly. As a skill set, the defensive defender's repertoire is difficult to master at a high level, and in some ways it is even more difficult to quantify effectively. Knowing where to be on the ice, when to be there, and actually being physically capable of playing such a role is extremely demanding. The best defenders take the lion's share of a team's tough minutes, and prevent the best of the opposition from doing much damage offensively. This conveniently allows other less capable defensemen on their team to be "sheltered" from the proverbial storm and makes everyone look better in the process.

Daniel Wagner of the Vancouver Sun has recently been applying this very concept - which he terms 'enabling' - in his breakdown of the Vancouver Canucks usage of 4th line centre Manny Malholtra. He is counted upon to do the dirty work on the ice in the defensive zone so the Canucks more offensively gifted players can spend more time on offense doing what they do best - scoring goals and producing points both on the ice and eventually in the standings. This is basically the same concept I am attempting to get at only for defenders.

So how do we describe the guys that face the toughest minutes? Well generally speaking they'll be counted on to play on the Penalty Kill, and they'll be expected to face the best lines the opposition has to throw on the ice at even strength - for the method I plan on using I'm going to focus on the latter. Using behindthenet.ca we can form a pretty detailed picture of what it takes to be considered a defender in the shut down mold, and even more importantly, who the best players are in that role.

Star-divide

Using the past 4 years worth of data plus what has gone so far this year will allow us to have a relatively robust selection to choose from as well, so we know where we're sitting in terms of recent comparables. For the sake of ease of analysis I made one particularly large assumption, which is that the defenders facing the highest Corsi REL QoC on a team over a large span of games will generally be involved in the top 4 D on their team's PK, and examining the names that come up on the list, this is pretty clearly the case.

As a methodology I structured the analysis in a manner quite similar to the Heavy Lifter Index described by Ryan Poplichak at Hockey Prospectus, which has also been discussed or mentioned by Derek Zona at CopperNBlue and Gabe Desgardins at Arctic Ice Hockey. As I was looking at defenders and not forwards though I decided to change the categories slightly so as to get at what I felt was important.

Firstly, I decided to NOT include +/- QoC as I personally am of the opinion that +/- is an anachronistic statistic that is of little actual value in assessing players due to the large quantity of shooting luck involved season to season. While there is some skill in shooting over the long term, I feel that a defender's key role is to limit goal scoring opportunities which closely correlates to Corsi, thus I stuck with Corsi measures largely.

Thus I did include Corsi REL QoC as in the HLI, but I also decided to factor in Corsi REL QoT. A defenders job is immeasurably easier if the players they share the ice with regularly are more capable of driving play up ice, thus it made sense to me to reward players plying their trade while at a disadvantage and penalize those who are playing with superior line mates. In an effort to manage this fact, I combined Corsi REL QoC and Corsi REL QoT into a differential statistic, comparing the Standard Deviation ratio of both statistics in the given year. Therefore a player who plays against very difficult Corsi REL QoC, while toiling with inferior linemates from a Corsi REL QoT perspective is given a higher index rating.

Secondarily, I included the Standard Deviation ratio of the defender's Corsi ON/60. Unlike in the refined version of Ryan Poplichak's HLI, I felt that D men with negative Corsi ratings could still be present in this index. Given the situations they are placed in and their skill set, I didn't see much point in eliminating them from the analysis.

Thirdly, I included the Standard Deviation ratio of the defender's Offensive Zone Start %, in this case a negative score would be considered a positive contribution to the index. The last category I did include was the Standard Deviation ratio of the D man's penalty differential, but I weighted this statistic lower as I felt defensive D men do tend to rack up penalty minutes at a higher rate than forwards.

So in summary SDI Sit (Shutdown Defender Index Situational) will be the sum of values for Corsi REL Differential STD Ratio and OZ% STD Ratio, while SDI Res will be the sum of values for Corsi ON 60 STD Ratio and the 20% weighted value of Penalty Differential STD Ratio.

Here are the top performers from the past few years in the NHL by season (oh and keep an eye out for Jan Hejda)

2007-08

Player

Team

Age

GP

PDO

SDI Sit

SDI Res

SDI

Jan Hejda

CBJ

29

81

1020

4.347

+0.131

4.478

Dan Hamhuis

NSH

25

80

997

4.189

+0.244

4.425

Derek Morris

PHX

29

82

1017

4.962

-0.537

3.873

Adam Foote

COL

36

75

999

3.902

-0.028

3.741

Kurt Sauer

COL

27

54

1049

4.866

-1.125

3.721

Keith Ballard

PHX

25

82

1011

4.533

-0.812

3.561

Anton Volchenkov

OTT

25

67

1019

4.351

-0.790

3.504

Radek Martinek

NYI

31

69

970

3.357

+0.147

3.181

Chris Phillips

OTT

29

81

1019

3.978

-0.796

3.181

Brett Clark

COL

31

57

1012

3.879

-0.702

3.176

2008-09

Player

Team

Age

GP

PDO

SDI Sit

SDI Res

SDI

Jan Hejda

CBJ

30

82

1030

5.531

-0.379

5.152

Kurt Sauer

PHX

28

68

1012

6.412

-2.006

4.406

Mike Commodore

CBJ

29

81

1016

5.016

-0.933

4.083

Zbynek Michalek

PHX

26

82

988

5.477

-1.394

4.083

Nick Schultz

MIN

26

79

1015

5.490

-1.534

3.956

Dan Hamhuis

NSH

26

82

993

4.449

-0.565

3.884

Zdeno Chara

BOS

31

80

1023

3.001

+0.595

3.596

Radek Martinek

NYI

32

51

976

4.661

-1.281

3.379

Kim Johnsson

MIN

32

81

1011

3.943

-0.859

3.084

Greg Zanon

NSH

28

82

1011

4.024

-1.021

3.003

2009-10

Player

Team

Age

GP

PDO

SDI Sit

SDI Res

SDI

Roman Polak

STL

23

78

1011

5.941

-0.253

5.688

Barret Jackman

STL

28

66

1001

5.217

-0.367

4.849

Duncan Keith

CHI

26

82

979

2.379

+2.305

4.684

Anton Volchenkov

OTT

27

64

996

4.362

+0.234

4.596

Ed Jovanovski

PHX

33

66

982

5.197

-0.983

4.215

Jan Hejda

CBJ

31

62

992

5.375

-1.627

3.748

Zbynek Michalek

PHX

27

72

1011

4.489

-0.766

3.723

Chris Phillips

OTT

31

82

998

3.470

+0.169

3.639

Dan Hamhuis

NSH

27

78

993

2.047

+1.048

3.095

Marc Methot

CBJ

24

60

992

3.850

-0.901

2.949

2010-11

Player

Team

Age

GP

PDO

SDI Sit

SDI Res

SDI

Nicklas Lidstrom

DET

40

82

1002

3.960

+0.416

4.376

Mike Weaver

FLA

32

82

997

3.529

+0.344

3.873

Mattias Ohlund

TBL

34

72

987

5.119

-1.334

3.785

Brad Stuart

DET

31

67

1012

3.416

+0.004

3.420

Jay Bouwmeester

CGY

27

82

995

3.263

+0.144

3.408

Mike Lundin

TBL

26

69

1004

3.782

-0.492

3.290

Jason Garrison

FLA

26

73

997

3.175

+0.008

3.183

Josh Gorges

MTL

26

36

996

3.299

-0.166

3.133

Eric Brewer

TBL

31

76

1007

2.872

+0.209

3.081

Marc Staal

NYR

24

77

1005

3.441

-0.365

3.076

2011-12 (So Far)

Player

Team

Age

GP

PDO

SDI Sit

SDI Res

SDI

Victor Hedman

TBL

21

31

960

5.125

-0.400

4.725

Eric Brewer

TBL

32

47

1008

4.806

-1.088

3.717

Ryan O’Byrne

COL

27

49

1000

4.309

-1.074

3.234

Chris Butler

CGY

25

50

1014

3.445

-0.305

3.141

Drew Doughty

LAK

22

44

990

1.486

+1.559

3.046

Jay Bouwmeester

CGY

28

50

1002

3.242

-0.261

2.980

Jan Hejda

COL

33

48

972

3.549

-0.647

2.902

Brent Seabrook

CHI

26

46

1009

1.828

+1.011

2.840

Ryan McDonagh

NYR

22

47

1030

3.700

-0.885

2.815

Tim Gleason

CAR

29

51

1000

3.010

-0.220

2.790

So a couple of thoughts on the lists above: firstly Jan Hejda is easily the most under rated defensive player in the NHL post lockout; secondly while I may need to adjust some of this to prevent the index from penalizing players from good teams, this seems like an excellent tool for identifying potential defensive workhorses on less talented teams. In fact you may notice some UFA targets I have mentioned either on PPP or Twitter for the Leafs to aim for (Jason Garrison and Tim Gleason).

So I'm going to follow up this post tomorrow with a detailed look at how the Leafs D has shaped up over the past 5 years - it paints a picture that goes a long way to explaining their non-playoff results. Luckily though I find some reason for hope, but you'll need to tune in for more on that.

Please discuss your views in the comments and if you have any questions or suggestions I'll get to them when I can.

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Comments

Display:

Where would the Leafs best blueliner (whoever that is) rank on the 2011-2012 list so far?

Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.

by Chris Stoikoff on Jan 30, 2012 11:18 AM EST reply actions  

Or rather, how far down the list

Sometimes it seems this cycle never ends, we slide from top to bottom then we turn and climb again.

by Chris Stoikoff on Jan 30, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm doing a post on the Leafs D

tomorrow – but to quickly mention it – Phaneuf is currently 36th in the NHL this year and Gunnarsson is around 40th.

The rest of the Leafs D are far down in the rankings.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Phaneuf is not the prototype of a “shutdown defender” which is what you are measuring here but he is an effective defender in game situations because he is drives a lot of shots at the opponents net. A balanced measure of scoring chances for and against will give a different picture. That is instead of measuring shutdown capability (players that minimize SA), defenders can be measured by how they minimize SA/(SA+SF) which can be generalized for Corsi and Fenwick by including blocked and/or missed shots. I think in this case Phaneuf would appear to be “better” defender because it incorporates his offensive game. Though like you said you are measuring shutdown specifically which will may make more gifted puck carriers appear worse on defence then they are in game situations.

by jeffgm on Jan 30, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

I’m comparing their Corsi ON and their usage in this, so the fact that Phaneuf is productive offensively is mitigated by the fact that he isn’t facing the hardest OZ% starts.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

so realistically

this isn’t “making them” appear worse at all – it’s just recognizing the fact that they aren’t being used in a shut down role particularly. Sure they’re contributing a lot, but they aren’t being asked to face the toughest comp in the D Zone constantly with crappy line mates.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok see what you mean, the measure of shutdown capability is ranking defencemen by those who face the hardest opponents in their own D zone adjusted for the quality of teammates.

by jeffgm on Jan 30, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

yep

and then I just factored in their corsi on as a measure of results… most of them are negative because the opposition and teammate effects are so massive they’re lucky if they just REDUCE the attempts against.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t really understand the ratings here. Could you provide an example using a specific player? I think that might make things a bit more clear.

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull

by Draglikepull on Jan 30, 2012 11:18 AM EST reply actions  

I don't have the numbers in front of me

to give you a detailed run down but I’ll attempt to explain it as simply as I can:

Everything is indexed as a ratio of Standard Deviations from the avg in each category for every D man in the NHL in each season.

Basically SDI Sit is determined by Corsi REL QoC minus Corsi REL QoT plus the OZ% number.

SDI Res is just the Corsi ON/60 and a 20% weighting of the index for their penalty differential.

Add SDI Sit and SDI Res together and you get the final value. So basically it’s a sum of standard deviations from the mean – so the guys with the highest score work out to dealing with the most extreme situations and managing them the best from a Corsi and Penalty perspective.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

My problem with this analysis (thought maybe it was your point)

Is that it focuses on guys who only play tough minutes: the Volchenkov’s of the world. On the other hand a guy like Keith or Bouwemeester who just never get off the ice does play very tough minutes at times (being a shutdown defender) but is also playing some softer minutes (just because they are on so much). That is why I think an adjustment for TOI somehow would be useful.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Feb 1, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Does the measure correlate better to GA/60 then standalone Corisi or Fenwick?

by jeffgm on Jan 30, 2012 11:32 AM EST reply actions  

to be perfectly honest

I haven’t checked… and the reason I included PDO is because I think the luck factor would go a long way to affecting that GA/60 value anyway. Goaltending has such a high impact on +/- numbers that I don’t even know if there’s much value in factoring it in when assessing the D… but that’s just my personal take on it.

When I’m looking at these guys, my main objective is just to assess who is dealing with the most difficult comp from a Corsi perspective, while playing with the worst line mates, and then how they handle that situation – again from a Corsi and Penalty perspective.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Seems like there is a lot of pairing going on.

How do you separate the contributions of say, Girardi and McDonagh (who have spent well over 85% of the time together at even strength)?

Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
"Oh, that sensible and sober* Rangers fan guy who is cool, actually" - Dominik, Lighthouse Hockey
*Statement has not been verified nor regressed

by George E. Ays on Jan 30, 2012 11:35 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah I've noticed that also

and realistically I’m not sure how I can get away from that aside from pointing out that I did account for Corsi REL QoT.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

the problem with D partners

is they play so much together that separating them and getting meaningful data over a long enough term is pretty much a wasted effort.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

that being said

using year over year data may be useful as D partners do often change year to year.

I will get to that in tomorrow’s posting though…

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

in light of this

if you notice Hejda’s numbers, and then notice how frequently Columbus and Colorado (this year) players pop up in the top 10 alongside his… yeah his impact is huge… seriously the guy is a defensive masterpiece.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Well his coaches USE him as such anyway. We’re assuming that this is because he performs at a high level, but it could be raw lack of alternatives, a strategic decision to play his best players against weakest competition, stuff like that.

Note, I never said an UNREASONABLE assumption.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Jan 31, 2012 8:21 AM EST up reply actions  

never mind, I was misreading the stat.

Glory glory Man United, AND the other MU, AAAAnd the Leafs. Experiencing cheering whiplash for decades..

by Wan Ihite on Jan 31, 2012 8:29 AM EST up reply actions  

the interesting thing to me

about Girardi is, he’s appeared lower on the list than either of his recent D partners – Staal and McDonagh. Realistically it’s quite plausible that he’s being propped up by his D partners rather than the opposite.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ve made that argument for a while, but nobody wants to hear it. Girardi is a guy that does a lot of dirty work, and is seriously loved by the MSG scorer (hits/blocked shots), so it shows up on the stat page. He is very good in his own zone at clogging up passing and shooting lanes, he just struggles to actually take the puck away and turn it into the offense. That’s where Staal/McDonagh are much better.

Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
"Oh, that sensible and sober* Rangers fan guy who is cool, actually" - Dominik, Lighthouse Hockey
*Statement has not been verified nor regressed

by George E. Ays on Jan 30, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

he's actually

a quantifiably worse shot blocker than McDonagh (and possibly Staal – though I haven’t checked the numbers).

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Than McD? I know I showed him worse than Sauer, haven’t checked it recently though, and I was only looking at ES blocks. I doubt he’s worse than Staal, Staal’s a guy that doesn’t let you shoot period, so his blocks aren’t great, I don’t think.

Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
"Oh, that sensible and sober* Rangers fan guy who is cool, actually" - Dominik, Lighthouse Hockey
*Statement has not been verified nor regressed

by George E. Ays on Jan 30, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

His percentage

blocked of all attempts is higher – he has more blocked shots total, and the number of attempts when he’s on the ice is lower.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

and yeah

I was only looking at ES blocks also… no easy access to SB totals on the PK makes that hard.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Possible Concern

If you try to account for teammates with Corsi REL QoT, since top pairing d-men tend to play together (on the top pair), won’t this metric favour anyone who outperforms their role? So, in other words, it wouldn’t measure absolute value but rather value relative to the circumstances in which they play? Which theory might account for the fact that there are a lot of players in the top 10 lists from less than stellar teams.

In the court of public opinion, Steve Simmons is Lionel Hutz.

by The Bag on Jan 30, 2012 12:21 PM EST reply actions  

But that's

exactly why I’m looking for their value relative to circumstances.

I want the guys that perform the best in the most challenging situations… and if they perform well in easy situations then that’s to be expected?

Why would I bother going the other way?

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

and I'm not sure you're correct

on your less than stellar teams theory – remember this is purely from a corsi perspective… and it doesn’t include goaltending or shooting percentage in the accounting… because frankly I don’t think D have a huge impact on either number.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

for instance

despite the widely held belief that Columbus is a “less than stellar team” due to their record, they’re actually in the top half of the NHL in their close Fenwick percentage numbers… which isn’t what most people would expect.

They just have atrocious goaltending and their shooting has been amazingly unlucky this year.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

and defensively

you could say the same thing about Tampa Bay. Their D hasn’t been good aside from the two guys listed at the top of this year’s numbers, but their biggest problem has been in goal – not the blue line.

Dwayne Roloson has been atrocious this year.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, I’ll concede the point about the teams being less than stellar.

My concern with the performance relative to circumstance issue is this: imagine there are two players, A and B, who play for different teams. Player A is actually a better defensive defenseman. (For the sake of argument, imagine that we know this.) He also plays on a defensively stronger team and with a better d partner than player B. Player A also plays on the top pairing for his team, but player B plays on the second pairing. However, relative to player B, his partner is significantly worse than he is (the gap between him and his partner exceeds the gap between player A and his partner). Suppose finally that player B isn’t much worse than the top pairing on his team, and so he plays relatively difficult minutes for a second pairing guy.

Because of the nature of his team and the weakness of his partner, B will show up in your ratings as being better than A, even though we assumed the opposite.

In the court of public opinion, Steve Simmons is Lionel Hutz.

by The Bag on Jan 30, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh that's sort of a mess.

In other words, your ranking is of players relative to their circumstances, but because it doesn’t seem to account for the relative difficulty of the circumstances(as in relative to other circumstances), a guy holding his own on the first pairing and a guy holding his own on the second pairing would show up as being roughly the same, even though one may actually be far better.

In the court of public opinion, Steve Simmons is Lionel Hutz.

by The Bag on Jan 30, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

yes that's exactly my point

and the part you’re missing is the results aspect… if player A is so much better than player B his impact should show up in the SDI Res column… if his impact isn’t so distinctive then it won’t.

And since we’re talking Standard Deviations from the avg, we’re looking at how they compare respectively to all of their peers, it’s not a counting statistic. Playing more minutes or with better line mates once in a while doesn’t really shift things drastically.

This stat basically says you play quantifiably more difficult minutes and have quantifiably superior results then you rank higher.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Why does the SDI Res have such a minor impact relative to SDI Sit? (ie the numbers are much smaller).

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Feb 1, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Hawerchuk has noted that Columbus has gathered a team of players that have fairly low career shooting percentages.

OPERATION TANK IS A GO. It’s the only explanation for Mike Weber. He’s on a secret mission.

by Ubiquitous on Jan 30, 2012 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

and that hurts them… for sure… which would hurt +/- assessments.

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

- Sir Winston Churchill

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.

by Steve Burtch on Jan 30, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Just thinking about how the different systems also play a factor in this… I mean remember Franson talking about how much more aggressive the Leafs defensive system was than Nashville’s and thus being a problem with him adjusting to it. Like for instance teams that play more of a defensive and counter attack system would yield different results than if the same players were on a run’n’gun type tema/system as an example.

I know that they might not be a way to take this into consideration but might lead to why a certain player is so low or high on a list… teams’ systems might be a contributing factor as a deterrent to a players ability or enhance it.

"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM

by BlueBuds on Jan 30, 2012 6:06 PM EST reply actions  

I find it interesting to see Ballard in there (highly rated in Florida, traded for a huge package than benched on his new team) as well as Commodore (waived and bought out by Columbus of all teams), and of course Mike Weaver last year. He is a surprisingly effective player.

One thing I think your ranking needs is some sort of TOI analysis. Playing a lot of minutes is a defensive skill IMHO.

About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.

by BCapp on Feb 1, 2012 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

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