Mikhail Grabovski Trade Rumors
by Chemmy on Feb 16, 2012 9:45 PM EST
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PrintOn TSN and Twitter tonight Darren Dreger announced:
Offer for Grabovski is for a 2nd rnd pick and prospect. Could get more. Still hope to re-sign him.
I'm guessing the gap in signing Mikhail Grabovski is that Burke is looking for somewhere around $5M and Grabovski's agent wants Kessel's $5.4M deal. It's worth noting two things: first off that it would blow to lose a good player over $500k. A 2nd rounder and a prospect isn't worth anything. It's Luca Caputi and someone worse than Tyler Biggs.
The other thing is that Brian Burke leaks things to the media. It's possible that this is all part of the negotiation process and that if he's only worth a 2nd rounder that Grabovski's agent will tell him to take a smaller deal. For right now we need to hope that's the case: it's hard to see the Leafs making the playoffs this year without Grabovski and even harder to see it next season.
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Harder to judge without knowing the prospect.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Unless it’s a top three prospect in the NHL (Granlund, Kuznetsov, etc.) not really. It’s a bad deal.
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Depends on the prospect… elite level prospect =/= Caputi…
If its Granlund or Kuznetsov coming back I think people would get over it.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Dreger said Burke still thinks he can get more, like a 1st round pick thrown in, so yeah, unlikely to be a top prospect.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 16, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
LATE ROUND PICKS? WHERE DO I SIGN?
It would be to a playoff team and the picks no different than our 2nd. Biggs was slated to go mid 30s; Percy too. It’s a total crapshoot after 15.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Better still
If we give up Grabovski, get a 2013 1st round pick back. That is going to be one deep draft, and more picks, the better. I’d rather keep Grabs, but if Burke deals, better not be for a waste.
Only if we get Columbus’ 1st for 2013 so we can get that MacKinnon kid
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ding ding ding.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 16, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hey
he’s back!
Useless comments since 2009.
by PassivelyTruculent on Feb 16, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Grabovski isn’t going anywhere….whoever mentioned it is a ploy,has it right…Burke has used this tactic dozens of times and he has always gotten a deal with the player in question…..if it was to go south and they sent Grabbo packing…he would be back in July…..he loves the city…doesn’t want to leave.
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
Gardiner was “a prospect.” Colborne was “a prospect.” No, it’s not gonna be anyone’s number one prospect, but there are a couple names that wouldn’t be awful to see come back.
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by Bower Power on Feb 16, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Neat. Hope getting a 2nd/3rd line center prospect is worth not making the playoffs this year or next year.
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Just saying there’s a land between “blows” and “face of the future.” Not sure I like the deal, but “a prospect” is vague for a reason.
Also, 1st/2nd, not 2nd/3rd. And the Leafs have a pretty nasty shortage of “1st/2nd.”
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Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Feb 16, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt anyone’s trading us a potential “first line” center for 20 games of Grabovski.
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For all the reasons that we should keep him, I don’t see why teams should be above paying that for him. Is there a better second line center on the market? Hell that deal is still less than what the Bruins paid for 20 games of Kaberle.
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by Bower Power on Feb 16, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
A 2nd rounder got 25 games + playoffs of Dominic Moore. Dominic Moore sucks.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Kinda my point. If it’s a second rounder and a prospect, the prospect is either top shelf, or it’s a bullshit trade rumor.
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Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Feb 16, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
They were pretty high prospects in their organizations.
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So was Caputi. From everything I remember reading at the time he was the second best prospect behind Tangradi. Sometimes prospects do pan out and sometimes they don’t.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Caputi was never that high on the Pens chart….and he was mishandled in Toronto
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
he was the Pens 2nd best prospect at the time of the trade and he was injured constantly while with the Leafs
“mishandling” had nothing to do with it
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
Grabovski is a pending UFA and doesn’t have the cachet of a name player. The prospect is going to be shitty.
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It scares me that you are right
“name status” probably works against Grabbo’s actual accomplishments.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Beauchemin went back to Anaheim so there was a familiarity there but Kaberle was a huge name leading up to the deadline.
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So Grabbo back to MTL for Greg Pateryn?
What is life without hope?
by danishmarshmallow on Feb 16, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Kab erle isn’t a name player now…..but he was highly regarded around the league,for all the reasons Boston paid as much as they did…..but I am loving the fact that he is in montreal…and going nowhere fast…..he got his ring…and now he can play out the string….I don’t begrudge him that…but he is untradeable now and THAT looks F’in good on the havenots!
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
if he was untradeable now, he wouldn’t have been traded from Carolina to Montreal, he is also on a +40 point pace since being traded to the Habs
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 7:44 AM EST up reply actions
???
Kaberle was basically as “everyday” name as you got on the trade market. Through last year, (when he was traded) he was 5th in points and second in assists for a Dman since the lockout.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Yeah he was definitely highly regarded around the league
by Ben Schnell on Feb 16, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Said all this on Twitter but not everyone reads that so:
If Grabovski’s agent is asking for “Kessel” money, I think you can work out a deal for $5.25-$5.3 million a year that shows Grabbo that you recognise how important he is to the team, but still says to Kessel “You’re still our #1 guy”.
Also, it’s worth considering what it would cost to replace Grabovski. He’s good for 25-30 goals and 55-60 points and he plays great defensively. Where are we going to get someone else who can do that for less money? Jeff Carter costs about the same, is under contract until he’s 37, and would require giving up assets to acquire. 30 goal centres don’t tend to become available all that often. I don’t think the Leafs are going to be able to replace Grabovski for less than it would cost to re-sign him, either in terms of assets or cash.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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Grabovski at $5+ million. Man….that’s a lot of money
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Here's a way to think about
Who else could Burke spend that money on and get back equal or greater value?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
I’ll tell you. Suter, Parise, Carter, and Nash (and I’m iffy on the last two). That’s about it.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Would you take a 1/30 shot that you could get that?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
We might be having a 1/30 shot at signing Grabo as well if he goes to UFA…
Sure we have the shot to sign him now but if a deal can’t get hammered out because grabo is looking for 5.5+ we have a better shot at Parise
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
You think our chances of signing Grabovski and our chances of signing Parise are equal?
by A Lindros Jaw on Feb 17, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
1 in 28. He’s leaving New Jersey, and fuck Edmonton.
SO YOU’RE SAYING THERE’S A CHANCE!
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Me on Twitter
Columbus? really? 1/27!
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
No Winnipeg either. 1/26 ftw!
Leaf fan in Ottawa.
by joe leaf fan on Feb 16, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
No way in hell he goes back to Montreal 1/25
by schennsational on Feb 16, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Parise never played for Montreal! 1/26
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 16, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
That franchise is a shit show with little immediate future. 1/25.
Certified Delusional Optimist
by TheOtherAndrew on Feb 16, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Islanders? More like LOLSLANDERS. 1/25
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by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 16, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
oops thought we were talking Grabbo on july 1. FUCK MONTREAL 1/25
by schennsational on Feb 16, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
We
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
We're discussing Parise not Grabovski
1/26
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I’ll take Parise at any price. We don’t need to give up Grabovski to do it.
Waive every other fucking player.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 17, 2012 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
Suter is staying in Nashville….Parise will sign in Minnesota(his is most likely the first FA deal announced July 1st)…Carter is headed to LA…and Nash doesn’t really want to play in Toronto..or any other fishbowl…he stays in CLB unless someone is ready to offer half the farm for him….
Burke has spent three years repairing the damage done in less than two by JFJ…I hope and pray that he doesn’t throw it all away on one player…one who has never reached 80 pts in a season and has never been a plus player….and before you chastise me with the “lack of support around him” comment….I know that already,but really,is Nash worth giving up 5 players plus two or three picks?…..that is what is the reported asking price is…for LA as well…
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 7:44 AM EST up reply actions
you state a lot of stuff as fact here
Why the hell would Parise sign in Minny? The whole “Nash doesn’t want to play in a fish bowl” thing is crap and speculation, especially since it has been said by many a reporter with actual connections that Toronto is on Nash’s ok to trade list
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 7:54 AM EST up reply actions
Parise just bought a house in Minny so it’s already a done deal, only the paperwork left
We're getting sick of him, he's just shouting congress tart
he was born there, his family lives there, he probably spends the off season there, this is like Phaneuf buying a house in Edmonton
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Depending on how much Grabo fetches and how much it would take to acquire him..
Joe Pavelski at 2 more years 4 mil per…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
In what way do you think he is available?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I don’t think they move any of Couture/Pavelski/Burns. That is their future core.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Fucking San Jose is going to make an almost seamless transition from Marleau / Thornton / Boyle to Clowe / Pavelski / Burns (and it should be noted that Vlasic is really good). The players might not be quite as good (mostly cause of Thornton), but I see no reason to believe that the Sharks don’t have another 6-7 years as contenders with that group.
If they are smart they have set themselves up great. While they have emptied their cupboard pretty badly recently, they should look to move at least 2 of Thornton, Marleau, Havlat, Boyle and maybe even Clowe in the next 2 years. That way they restock and have their next core already in its prime.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I should specify
Moving those 2+ veterans should be used to restock youth/prospects.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
They did empty their cupboards (Coyle for one), although they also kept good guys over crappier ones (i.e. Pavs over Setoguchi).
At this rate, Havlat will probably get bought out if there is an amnesty. I doubt they move Clowe, unless they get another good winger in there before his contract is up.
They definitely aren’t cap fucked, thats for sure. Might be able to make some smart moves in free agency.
I am always surprised how different someone will see a contract like 4.75 and 5.25. I understand that you want to be as efficient as possible, but it is not that big a difference.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
If we give each player the extra 500k that is an extra 11.5 million dollars.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the problem. Cap mistakes add up.
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For sure, but acquiring and keeping UFA players are expensive processes.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
so is re-signing potential UFA’s if they want full market value.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
That is what I meant by “keeping”
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
yep it is an expensive process. That is why GM’s need to be stingy with ALL their players. Even talking each player down 100K saves the team 2.3 million dollars.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
People saying “screw it cave in and give Grabo what he wants” doesn’t seem to understand you need to fight to keep every dollar in a cap world during re-signing negotiations. Its only July 1st when you have to outbid others where you can get a little loose with your money, as you don’t have the option to talk players down.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
I understand playing hardball. I don’t understand letting a good player go for shitty lottery tickets.
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At some point you have to draw the line however.
If Grabo won’t come down below Kessels 5.4 and Burke won’t go above 4.5 (Remember we don’t know Burkes actual highest offer only speculation) then its a huge gap. At that point you have to tell Grabo we love you but we can’t lose you for nothing. July 1st this 4.5 million is still on the table if you want it but for now we have to do what’s best for our future.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I get it
But we are not in the negotiating room. I am looking at it from the judging the contract after it is done. I am not going to see 4.8 million think it is a steal and 5.2 and think it is a rip off. I have what I think is fair value (5 million or so) and think that anywhere within 5% on either side is as good as I could hope to predict/expect.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Hindsight is great isn’t it. however right now when we can’t see the actual numbers, if Burke and Grabo are apart by a wide margin (anything over 300k in my books) we have to expect something to happen.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
300K? Really? Less than league min? They can reach that middle ground. How about pay him half of his first year as a signing bonus so he gets it whether they lockout or not. That is worth at least 300K. Or give him big singing bonuses every year. That way he gets the money at the beginning of the season and through simple time value of money he is probably making a big chunk of that.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Cap mistakes add up when you pay 3 million for Armstrong to play on your 4th line
Cap mistakes add up when you pay 4.5 million for Komisarek to sit in the pressbox
Paying your 60 point, 2-way centre 5.2 when he might only be worth 4.7 is the cost of doing business in a market with low available supply and through the roof demand.
Cynically Sarcastic
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by clrkaitken on Feb 16, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
awesome post
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
by Chuck Diesel on Feb 17, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
yes..they do add up…Komisarek 4.5…Armstrong 3.0…..Finger and Dupius,although they are not counting against the cap….there are a few players in the system that we could have seen at the NHL level,but for these dumb contracts….I still think they should give Zigomanis the shot to earn another deal…but for some reason..BB won’t allow it….I can think of a number of players the Leafs could have signed if the Komisarek deal wasn’t on the books…but now they will have to pay for those players with draft picks or prospects….and on and on it goes…
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
We also have no idea what exactly the Leafs are viewing him at vs what Grabo is actually asking for.
We heard Kessel’s 5.4 was mentioned as a STARTING point and that Grabo considers himself the most important forward. That could mean has to be above 5.4 or they wont even think about it. Also it was speculated the Leafs could go as high as 5 although maybe they are still trying for a 4.5 max.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
the Leafs view him as a second line centre….and the starting point was 22 million(over 4 or 5 years)…not sure where this “Kesselmoney” rumor came from…Grabbo himself said he doesn’t expect the moon…he wants to stay and the Leafs want him to stay…the deal will get done….and it doesn’t have to be done by the deadline
the figure I have heard more than a few times…is 4.4 by 5 years…22 million
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
the Kesselmoney rumour came from Grabovski’s agent
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
Negotiating tactic?
I think not..I’m no expert, but if Burke leaks he can get a second and prospect for Grabovski, I would think that puts the ball in Grabo’s court. Now Grabo can use that as leverage against Burke, saying ‘sign me to what I want, or get crappy value via trade’.
heh
Exactly, you’re no expert ;) If all he’s worth is a crummy prospect and a crummy pick do you think he should take that to mean that he’s worth $5.4M+?
If he and his agent are smart it should make them reconsider their price.
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So..........
You think…Grabovski realizes his value is lower than he thought because of a low ball offer and agrees to 5m/season?
I think Grabovski goes to Burke and says give me 5.4 million, or trade me for the crap shoot of an offer, or lose me for nothing.
Low ball offer doesn’t represent his value, it represents the price a team is willing to pay for what might essentially be a rental.
I disagree with your stance.
I think if Burke puts Grabo on the block someone will go higher than that package as multiple teams will be interested.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I definitely think that Grabovski looks at a deal that is only slightly better than the offer that Dominic Moore got and wonders whether that means he’s likely to be in Moore’s salary range as well. For example, Rick Nash isn’t getting traded for a 2nd and a prospect.
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Hilariously enough, Nash and Grabovski have identical point totals this season (though Nash doesn’t exactly have much help).
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by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 16, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Grabovski is also much better defensively.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 16, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
Think of it like this: “Other GMs only value you at the level of a second and a prospect. Knowing that, do you really want to take the chance that you’ll get your offer on the open market?”
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by Bower Power on Feb 16, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Looking at the contracts signed over the last few summers? Yeah I take that risk. On the other hand Ihope he likes Toronto and is just trying to get the best deal possible right now.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
We traded a 2nd and a prospect to get Grabovski. Ten minutes ago if someone asked you “Who won the Grabovski trade?” you would have said “Toronto by a lot”.
2nd a prospect sucks.
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it’s a terrible offer.
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by blindfolded tank driver on Feb 16, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
That’s my thinking.
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 17, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
this just isn’t worth even talking about…at least not IMHO…the fan 960 here in Calgary has said that Detroit has offered Emmerton and two 2nds for Grabbo and Gustavsson…..now,it is Calgary,where they love to make shit up…but it got me to thinking….what if there is at least a remote possibility?
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
wait, so is it worth talking about or is it not?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:05 AM EST up reply actions
point taken Jared…..Emmerton is a player that Detroit is pretty high on…but they offered him to the Leafs for Gustavsson this past September when they were trying to get him signed
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
I dont see why Detroit would be very high on him, his AHL stats are mediocre, also the fact that they tried to trade him for an unproven goalie actually cements that
goaltenders, especially ones with pretty terrible North American track records have very little value
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
this would be true if it was any other organization than Detroit….they do things differently…Emmerton is highly regarded because he is an all-round player…in junior and in college,he was strictly offense…Detroit demands from all of it’s prospects that they learn the entire game….and as for Gustavsson…he has done as well as can be reasonably expected…in Detroit,he would be playing behind a consistant defence…and that would be the same 6 every night
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
if a player, even a very well rounded one, cannot put up 0.75PPG in the AHL, it does not matter who the team developing him is
he is 24, played 4 AHL seasons and never got close to that
now he has 9 points in 48 NHL games, he is a plug, maybe a very good plug, but he will doubtfully be anything more than that, even on the wings
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
yes I can see your point…all I said was that it was rumored….I am not sure what Detroit really needs let alone what they will do…they aren’t my team..the Leafs are….and if there is or was any fact to that rumor…I would like to think that our GM would at least look at it….but being an Irishman myself…I get where Burkie is coming from too…he has a plan and it will be revealed a piece at a time and anyone who thinks he is going to speed up the process…just hasn’t been paying attention
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
The Lightning got a second round pick for Dominic Moore and the most a team is offering for Grabovski is a second and a prospect?
according to my friend in the Leaf office…there is no outside offer….he just answered a text…saying that negociations remain in an ongoing pattern…expect something to get done this weekend….and the figures I mentioned earlier are right in the ballpark..22 million is a figure that is very close…the sticker is term
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
according to my grandma, there are a dozen outside offers, the best being Brayden Schenn and a conditional 5th if Grabovski scores a hat trick in his 1st game for the Flyers
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
haha…wait and see…the final deal will be very close to what has been stated already
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
if it is, then it is a horrible terrible deal and Burke will deserve all the ire he gets
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:11 AM EST up reply actions
at 22 million over 3…yes,BB would get all kinds of flack….over 4..a little less…over 5 I think he has done very well,and needs to get him a consistant LW…
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:13 AM EST up reply actions
im talking about the 2nd’s and Emmerton trade deal
wires crossed in the convo I guess
anyways, if Grabbo signs for under 4.5 it will be a fantastic deal for Burke
but Id doubt that
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
the figure that doesn’t go away is 4.4 times 5 years(22 million)….I could live with that….if Grabbo holds firm on 4 years..I don’t think the deal gets done…and that would be a shame
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
if anything, less years would entice Burke more, unless the dollar value jumped from 4.4 to something like 5 mill
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
yeah I know what you’re saying…but remember..this came from a Calgary “sports” station…meaning it is either horeshit or it is about a year past it’s due date
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
This seems like unnecessary posturing to me, and I’d wager meant to prompt a decision by Grabbo’s camp over a currently tabled offer. I don’t see how Burke can ask for less than $5 million over, say, 4 years when he just gave UFA Timmy Connolly $4.75 per for 2 years.
4 years X $5.0 million I’d be happy with. It’s the going rate (if not low-end) for 25-30 goals and 50-60 points these days.
Less years = more per year. Signing Connolly for 2 years at 4.75 is probably similar to signing him for 4 at 3.75 or 4/year.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I don’t agree. You’re buying up years of free agency of a player in his prime. The propensity for the back-diving deals that lower the AAV of contracts I think has contributed to your logic on this one.
by BeyondBeleaf on Feb 16, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not for players like Connolly who have injury history… 4 years 16 million guarenteed when you could be out of hockey in 2 because of injury is better than 2 years and 9 million. That extra 7 million guarenteed is big for players usually
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 16, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
It's precisely because you're buying up years of prime time.
A player in his prime has a 4-5 year window to cash in as much as he can. An example with solid numbers can probably provide a clearer picture.
Mikhail Grabovski is 28. Let’s say for the sake of even numbers he’s a $5mil value player. If he remains healthy, and continues his current production, we still expect him to begin steadily declining beyond the age of 30. Let’s say for argument sake, that means we get probably 3 years of $5mil play, a year of $4mil play, a year of $3mil play.
This means, the Expected Value of a 5 year deal is $22mil worth of playing quality. Knowing this, the average value of the contract per year is $4.4mil let’s say. So, a smart GM will approach this situation ad say, ok, we’ll pay you $4.8 mil, just below market value right now, but so that over the long run, you’d make more than your EV. The other offer on the table is that we’ll pay you say $5.2mil for 3 years, more EV than what you’ll provide over the course of the contract. After that contract however, with Grabo declining, he may only be able to secure himself a 3-4year, $3.5mil contract
This is all an EV game. If the player thinks his expected value at the end of a 3-year deal can remain high enough to garner another $5mil contract, he’d be wise to take the shorter deal. If he thinks that he’ll follow the statistical trend of decline, he’ll say, well, i make slightly more now, but then i make more later, when i wouldn’t be making that much on the market. So I’ll take the $4.8mil for my $5mil production now, so that I can still get $4.8mil when i’m only producing $3mil later.
The variance in these negotiations is of course what GMs are willing to bet that Grabo will still be a $5mil player into his mid 30s and what Grabo thinks his own EV will be at that age. Grabo’s value right now is at its peak. He’s 28 and he’s at his peak and he likely has 3-4 years of peak value now. A short contract must pay for that peak, while a longer one can prorate his peak contract value over the course of the deal.
by LeftNutForAStarCenter on Feb 17, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
The opposite is kind of true to what you're suggesting
Shorter deal means more money. Almost always (Vokoun-like signings being the exception).
Grabbo @ $5.5 for 3 years, being comparable to something like Grabbo @ $4.9 for 5 years. Reason being, at the end of a 3 year contract, when he’s in decline, it’s less likely for him to get another $5.5mil deal, so the difference averages out.
by LeftNutForAStarCenter on Feb 17, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
If we trade Grabovski and don’t bring in another centre, we go into next season with some combination of ConnollyBozak/Lombardi down the middle in our top 6. No thanks.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
If we move Grabovski for a 2nd and a prospect I think I’m all set with hockey for a while.
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by Chemmy on Feb 16, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
It sounded more like a leak from Burke to posture how little Grabovski is valued by other GMs, therefore, whatever offer we’ve tabled is more than fair, sign that shit son.
by BeyondBeleaf on Feb 16, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think that is a bit of an extreme reaction, particularly when you have no idea who the prospect is.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
What are the ODDS of the prospect being top tier though
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Trading Grabovski for futures means this season is over. It also means that unless we find someone better next season is probably done too.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
don’t discount Colborne and his contributions next season…I think he makes the team out of camp…ahead of Kadri(provided Kadri is still in the organization)and has a decent year as the third line centre…..after Connoly is gone Colborne moves up.
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
Nope I agree. That offer is fucking awful and Burke is an asshole if he takes it.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 17, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Moving Grabovski for a couple of “assets” while in a playoff spot tells me Burke is pulling the plug on this season. I don’t believe that for a second. Besides, who would he sign as a FA to replace him? His attempt at getting a “first-line centre” last off-season netted us Connolly. Bite the bullet, get him done for 4yrs/18-20 mil, and try to ship some bad contracts out before next season. We managed to resign Clarke last year despite his UFA status down the stretch. There should be no reason to panic here.
by El Timbo Libre on Feb 16, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yup
Burke’s handled it before nad said he’s okay with letting Grabbo walk if he must. He doesn’t sound like a guy that wants to tank this season.
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well said
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
by Chuck Diesel on Feb 17, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. A THOUSAND TIMES NO.
FUCK NO.
NOT ALL FOR ALL THE TEA AND KUNG POW CHICKEN IN CHINA NO.
JUST. NO.
I hope I’ve made my position abundantly clear.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 16, 2012 9:59 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
you are shouting and I still couldn’t hear you~~BB
yeah I think I get what you are saying..:)
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
The pricetag?
If Dominic “The Domino” Moore is worth a 2nd round pick, and history has certainly cemented this to be true, then Grabo must be worth more than this and a prospect. But again, are we talking the aforementioned Caputi-level prospect or one of significant value?
First, Caputi had a fair amount of value at the time (he was their number 2 prospect, similar to how Colborne is likely our number 2 prospect, and Gardiner was Anaheim’s number 2 prospect). Unfortunately prospects don’t pan out sometimes.
Second, consider this “prospect” is likely a guy like Kadri.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Fair enough
But it certainly seems like the team would be putting a bullet in this season.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Definitely. If it could VASTLY improve the team in the long run, it’d be worth it. But I don’t see that happening.
Certified Delusional Optimist
by TheOtherAndrew on Feb 16, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
VASTLY improving over a 25-30 G and 25-30 A defensively responsible centre is gonna be pretty damned difficult to do with a second and a prospect.
Exactly.
Certified Delusional Optimist
by TheOtherAndrew on Feb 17, 2012 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
Caputi had value because the prospect tank was pretty empty. That isn’t the case now. It’s unlikely we’d get a top-tier kid for a pending UFA.
by El Timbo Libre on Feb 16, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Pittsburgh’s prospect tank was pretty empty?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Pittsburgh’s prospect tank was, is, and always will be pretty empty?
FTFY, and it sure will.
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
"Matt Cooke and Evgeni Malkin for Brian Boyle, Derek Stepan, Brandon Dubinsky, Mike Rupp, and a first round pick." -JackCampbell
How many brooks would a Brooks Laich like if a Brooks Laich could like brooks?
I still have this feeling that there is something huge just around the corner….so what that means is that I will not leave the house until the deadline has come and gone,just in case it’s a truck ….another deal with Anaheim? or a deal with Columbus that doesn’t involve Nash or Carter? Brassrd has been mentioned several times….and I still hold out hope that BB can somehow pry Ryan away from the Ducks…
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
To put it in Leafs terms
Would you trade Grabbo for Kadri and a 2nd?
(Note 1: I have no way of knowing whoh the prospect is, so he could be much better or worse than Kadri. It is just one example of what a “prospect” could be like)
(Note 2: I would probably not do this trade)
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
See above all caps posting for my answer.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 16, 2012 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
no I wouldn’t
I used to love the Leafs... I still do... but I used to, too.
by Chuck Diesel on Feb 17, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
https://twitter.com/#!/oilonwhyte/status/170213118721536000
Stories you never hear, and never will: Team finishing out of playoffs for 6 straight years trades star RW for spare parts, gets better.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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BUT PROSPECTS!
Certified Delusional Optimist
by TheOtherAndrew on Feb 16, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
FUCK THAT SHIT
Leaf fan in Ottawa.
by joe leaf fan on Feb 16, 2012 10:11 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
FUCK THAT SHIT
Certified Delusional Optimist
by TheOtherAndrew on Feb 16, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
FUCK THAT SHIT
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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by PPP on Feb 16, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That’s gotta be the absolute most Burke would do.
Leaf fan in Ottawa.
by joe leaf fan on Feb 16, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Oh absolutely. He’s not getting more money than Kessel.
Certified Delusional Optimist
by TheOtherAndrew on Feb 16, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Should the Leafs really pay him more than Plekanec, Kesler, Getzlaf, Carter, Bergeron?
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Don’t compare to RFA deals. Carter’s deal is also ingeniously described as lower than 5.5 × 5 because of its extraordinarily length.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Part of the cap is how long you are committed to a deal.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
even matching Kessels’ 5.4 a year only adds 2.5 to the cap,over what Grabbo is getting this year
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
As well
It will cost more to sign/keep UFA’s than RFA’s. That is simply the way of it. RFA contracts should net you better value on a player…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
…and Burke, if he is of his word, wants nothing to do with deals longer than 5 years.
by El Timbo Libre on Feb 16, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’m actually more concerned with the term. I say pay him well for 2 years, and revisit then. He plays a punishing game and I think he’s liable to get seriously injured at some point.
by A Lindros Jaw on Feb 17, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Compare it as a percentage of the cap the year it was signed.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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Yes. I just went looking for this.
Kessel signed for 5.4 when the cap was 56.8
Cap stands at 64.3 right now. i’m not anticipating a drop.
5.4/64.3 = 4.78/56.8
In other words, it’s exactly what you would expect Grabovski to make relative to Kessel plus cap inflation.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I doubt it. It may just stay the same but it wont go down. With a) inflation of money, and b) it would set certain teams over.
by Ben Schnell on Feb 16, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I could see them dropping the floor to ease the pressure on small market teams.
by JohnerstonRex on Feb 16, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
How likely is that?
Certified Delusional Optimist
by TheOtherAndrew on Feb 16, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
If it goes down there will be a roll-back or a buyout amnesty or something that will give teams the chance to shed salary to get compliant. League’s not going to screw over its most profitable teams.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 16, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Really not sure how you could know that
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 17, 2012 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
Who knows?
If a #1 draft pick isn’t in the offing, or a prospect who is worth that much, why deal? Grabovski is a winner, we need more players with his skill, work ethic, brains, edge, and hustle.
By #1 draft pick do you mean first rounder or #1 overall?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Smartest thing you ever said
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 17, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
$5.35 million. Tell him he can’t have Kessel money but we’ll give him very close to it.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 16, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I never understood why Pittsburgh didn’t give Malkin $8.6MM
Kid wasn’t born in ’87
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 16, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
They literally just photocopied Crosby’s contract and whited out the name and replaced it with Malkin
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Liquid paper could have saved them $100,000 and made for two cool cap hits. Then switch Malkin’s jersey to #86. Voila.
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 17, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
speaking of Crosby…what does his next deal look like? and does he sign for more than a year at a time?
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
just checked capgeek.com….Crosby has next season at 7.5 left on his current deal…..he is my favorite nonLeaf player…I am really hoping and praying that he comes back healthy….but if he comes back thinking he’s healthy and gets nailed again….I pray that doesn’t happen..but we have been through this before,haven’t we?…for me,I have always had favorite players on teams other than the Leafs….Pat Lafontaine….Eric Lindros…..etc. and now a kid who I love watching play is in his second year and already on his 3rd concussion…Jeff Skinner
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Tim Kerr was another favorite…but I don’t remember whether it was concussions or his back,that ended his career…I remember he loved hanging out at the edge of the crease and took a lot of vicious crosschecks for his trouble
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
No
Just no.
Can’t trade Grabbo.
loading.......67%
by mass9 on Feb 16, 2012 10:14 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i would go as high as 6per if i had to.
besides being indestructible he’s worth every penny .
.......................
say yes to Grabbo.
He is not indestructible (remember his hand) and he has had at least 1 concussion (when Chara hit him). As a matter of fact at his size and style of play it is something that scares me. HIs long term durability.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Fully agree, not enough people mention this.
Big money, short term.
by A Lindros Jaw on Feb 17, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
what injury did Grabbo suffer from when he got hammered by Phanuef in Calgary just before the trade?…either another concussion or his wrist
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
broken wrist
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 18, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
$6M is out of his range. That’s Parise, Kane, Toews, and Zetterbeg money.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
how about 5.9?
lol seriously though, i just don’t wanna have to replace someone like Grabovski unless we have someone planned as good or better, and certainly not a 2nd round pick and a prospect.
.......................
say yes to Grabbo.
by OffTheChest on Feb 16, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
I have a solution
Sign him for 4.5 (or whatever Burke is offering), then Rogers or Bell hires him as a radio host for one of their radio stations for 1 million/year. I would pay to listen to Grabbo ramble about basically anything.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Illegal :(
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Booo!
I semi-seriously wanted the Leafs to sign Bryzgalov this summer just so I could hear co-interviews with Bryz and Grabovski.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I like the idea…but it is not possible under the current CBA..it falls under “personal services” and is not allowed
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
MORE GRABBO!
I would rather see him leave as a FA then get a second and a Craputi for him
Komisarek Blows
by jd90 on Feb 16, 2012 10:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
...
.......................
say yes to Grabbo.
by OffTheChest on Feb 16, 2012 10:51 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
5.5 million pineapples seems like a bit much....
"Take care of your balls, and they'll take care of you."
~MCATDT
by Patches O'Houlihan on Feb 16, 2012 11:05 PM EST reply actions
Last year Jason Arnott went at the deadline for 2nd round pick and David Steckel. That seems like a good comp, no?
Bitter Leaf Fan Blog | You can Follow Me on Twitter
No. Arnott was 10 years older than Grabbo is now, and scoring about 30 pts less.
by 300 Stitches on Feb 17, 2012 7:42 AM EST up reply actions
I was hoping Burkie would snag Arnott actually…not so sure that St.Louis would give him up now,for the very same reasons I wanted him in a Leaf uniform…size..leadership…30 to 70 points if put with the right linemates….30 goals if he gets healthy and cares enough about the team he’s playing for
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
through last tuesday..12 goals 24 points…plus11…in 49 games…almost all as the 3rd line centre…and a 58% faceoff wins mark….all for a cap hit of $2.875 million
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
Grabovski
is worth more than a 2nd and a prospect – he’s probably the best all around forward on the team – and he deserves at least 2 picks and a top notch prospect.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
Is he not also maybe the best available center? I gotta imagine he’d be worth more than Domenic fucking Moore
Komisarek Blows
by jd90 on Feb 16, 2012 11:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Which no one will offer.
Don’t trade him. Sign him.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 17, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
i wonder how much grabbo squats
I will stand beside him with an axe! @theninjagreg
by theninjagreg on Feb 16, 2012 11:16 PM EST via mobile reply actions
his workouts are considered legendary…of Gary Roberts caliber
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Ok
since 2007-08 there have been 15 C’s under the age of 30 to post 2 or me years of 0.35 gpg and 0.75 ppg. Grabovski is on track to match that this year. Three of the guys on that list have been traded in that time span:
Olli Jokinen from FLA to CGY – for Keith Ballard, Nick Boynton, and a 2nd round pick.
Mike Richards from PHI to LAK – for Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn and a 2nd rounder in 2012
Jeff Carter from PHI to CBJ – for Jakub Voracek, a 1st rounder (Couturier), and a 3rd (Cousins) in 2011.
Obviously Grabovski is worth at least 1 very good young roster player, at least one 1st or 2nd round pick, and then another player or prospect. That is the going rate for his caliber of player over the past 5 years.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
just looked up comparables
10 seconds ago – I’m sure if I spread it to include wingers I’d find more comparables.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Of those three, were any pending UFAs at the time of the trade?
Bitter Leaf Fan Blog | You can Follow Me on Twitter
I think
Jokinen might have been…. but I’ll have to check.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
ok so reduce the
pick/prospect load by 1… make it one pick/prospect… but you gotta try and get a good young roster player.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
like if we
shipped him to NYR? We gotta try and add a Stepan… or from Chi you go for someone like Morin or Hayes… someone that’s playing either in the NHL or on the verge.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
they could also
make it work by adding in other prospects to improve the level of what comes back – i.e. we toss in Mikus or Holzer to get a higher end pick/prospect in return.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I should add
that Jokinen was dealt again less than a year later by Phoenix to Calgary for Lombardi, Prust, and a 1st rounder (Gormley)… so that’s TWICE he was dealt for a good quality young player, a fringe player/prospect and a high draft pick… in less than a year.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
so in 4 trades
for a comparable player (albiet under contract afaik) the rate is 1 top young player, 1 prospect/peripheral player, and a 1st or 2nd.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
that being said
they all had higher peak seasons – but all 3 were more expensive by a LOT … so as a rental Grabbo comes cheaply.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Feb 16, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Ok
this is more interesting
.......................
say yes to Grabbo.
by OffTheChest on Feb 16, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
1) You can’t find comparables by only looking at one cut off. You need to have a high and low for GPG and PPG. Each of those guys had had a point per game season which Grabbo had not.
2) None of those guys were UFA rentals.
3) Jokinen was never traded from Fla to Cgy. He went to Phx in between.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
right you are…Florida to Phoenix to Calgary to NewYork Rangers to Calgary….and now he is having a career year in a contract year…coincidence? I think not….the Lames will re sign him at a ridiculous price and then regret it when he disappears again
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
The good news: if this is a bluff by Burke’s camp, he’s pretty much shooting Grabovski’s trade value in the foot, and has pretty much committed to re-signing him. (if I’m bluffing for trade, you set a rumor that he’s high value. Bluff to sign, a rumor that’s under value.)
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Me on Twitter
Didn’t he do this to Antropov, and then traded him for a 2nd rounder anyways?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Antropov for a 2nd is a pretty good comparable. Worth noting that Burke traded Domenic Moore for 2nd rounder, that same day.
If Moore is still worth a 2nd, then maybe Grabovski is also still worth only what Antropov fetched. And if so, why make the trade?
Stay the course, or subtract Grabovski and add another Kenny Ryan …. hmmmm ….
by Spezzal Teams Playa on Feb 17, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
diffent team though…they were out of the PO picture by a mile then….makes a difference in how BB will approach things this season,doesn’t it?
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Grabbo
Grabbo
Gotta be signin’ Grabbo…
1/1/11: Saw the beginning of the Optimus Reim era. And it was glorious!!!1
Oh...and Phil Kessel says YAAAAAAYYYY!!!1
by LeafBoy on Feb 17, 2012 12:19 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Didn’t Dreger say the most Burke would get for Kaberle was a 2nd round pick?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 6:09 AM EST reply actions
I recall that…and I think that was a widely held belief,not just Dreger
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Trading Grabbo for a 2nd and a prospect (knowing almost certainly we’re not talking about a top prospect) is stupid. Burke knows that, he’s not an idiot.
It’s not an offer it’s an insult
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 17, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Not much else needs to be said
It’s an awful offer. He won’t get $5.4M. Burke will sign him to 5 or under or won’t sign him at all.
I know its RFA vs UFA, but remember Kulemin “wanting $3M+”? He signed for $2.35M
Everybody chill. Grabovski isn’t going anywhere.
No no, dig UP stupid.
Bah! What’s it matter there won’t be hockey next season with the union using the guy who single handedly almost killed MLB and stopped the chances of a Toronto/Montreal world series …
by SanityNoMore on Feb 17, 2012 8:31 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Tomas Kaberle got us a 1st, conditional 2nd and Joe Colborne. Grabbo is worth more now than Kaberle was then.
That's "Da-ooo". Like the drink.
kaberle’s name sealed the deal for burke, plus the fact that he and the boston GM were discussing trading for kaberle for a couple years prior.
Kaberle deal was the perfect storm.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 17, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
@NHLhistorygirl
On this date in 1927, the Toronto #NHL team played its 1st game as the #Leafs. Pat Patterson scored their 1st goal.
#Pipedream
Trade Grabbo for a 1st, move that 1st, our own 2nd, Schenn and Kadri for Rick Nash. Not sure that that is enough but we’d still have trade chips such as our own 1st this year, or next year’s 1st or 2nd or Colborne, Frattin, Aulie, Blacker, all sorts of possibilities to sweeten and augment the deal to get Rick Nash. I feel like people are really discounting Nash because of the year he is having but if Nash is available you make every attempt to get him. The possibilty of a Lupul-Bozak-Kessel line plus a Nash-Connolly-MacArthur should be enough to get in the playoffs. Remember that getting Nash out of Columbus is going to re-energize him to up his game because he is in a pretty bad situation right now. Burke has surprised us in the past getting Phaneuf for spare parts, Lupul and Gardiner, and the return he got for Kaberle so you never know what he could pull off.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 10:43 AM EST reply actions
Grabbo, Schenn, Kadri, and a 2nd for Nash and his 7.8 million dollar contract? PASS!
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
horrible
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
If someone had suggested you could get Nash for Grabbo, Schenn, Kadri and a 2nd a year or two ago people would laugh their ass off saying there’s no way CBJ would do that.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
But Nash is 2 years older than that situation. You want that for a 23 or 24 year old Nash? I’m probably interested.
Today I probaby wouldn’t pass Schenn, Kadri and a 2nd.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
by BCapp on Feb 17, 2012 3:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
2nd round picks aren't worth anything?
Shea Weber, Patrice Bergeron, David Backes, Jimmy Howard, Loui Eriksson, James Neal, Ryan O’Reilly, Jason Pominville…all 2nd rounders and, other than O’Reilly, all All Stars. Oh and we like Travis Hamonic just fine plus back in the day a fella by the nameof Trottier was pretty good for us as well.
now what percentage of 2nd rounders turn out that good?
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Trottier was chosen 22nd overall…in a 21 team league…same as a first rounder.
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
Depends on how good your scouts are
NYI 2008 draft produced Travis Hamonic and now Aaron Ness both of whom look like very good defensemen
no it doesn’t, 2nd round picks who turn out to be good to very good NHL players are a rarity, no matter how you slice it
also use the reply button
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree
Leafs and Islanders under Milbury often traded away 2nd rounders. Leafs still got two position players in last decade and Isles got two in 2008 alone. Not every draft pick pays off, but, with good scouting, a lot will. Trading picks and prospects away like candy was how Milbury destroyed the Islanders. Not a good idea.
good scouting always helps, but it all comes down to luck, even after the first half of the first round
luck
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
LUCK vs GOOD SCOUTING…..Leafs sent two scouts to Sweden to check out a player by the name of Inge Hammarstrom…..discovered Borje Salming on same trip…drafted both players….
Detroit sends scout to little corner of Russia to watch a player whom history has forgotten…scout sees little fireplug own the other team….sticks around for a month and watches player 12 more times….recommends to bosses in Motown…Detroit drafts Pavel Datsyuk in 6th round…171st overall…
Montreal ignores player in own backyard…drafts Doug Wickenhiser 1st overall….Chicago says thank you sooooo much and drafts Denis Savard 2nd
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
well maybe we should so things the way the isles are doing them.
Dammit Gomez.
by elseldo on Feb 17, 2012 5:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
There are definitely occasional 2nd rounders who turn into all stars. Unfortunately it is just not that common. Cullen analyzed 10 straight drafts and found that a second round picked player had between a 25-35% chance of becoming an actual NHLer (playing 100+ games). So yeah you can get a stastny, but more often than not you get a guy who doesn’t even make the NHL
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
by BCapp on Feb 17, 2012 7:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Teams wouldn’t throw away 2nd rounders for Dom Moore if they were worth a lot. They kind of round off deals and are used as currency. No way a 2nd rounder is the major piece coming back for Grabbo.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Apparently Boston is offering Rask, Hamilton and Knight for Nash
Imagine the narrative in Toronto that Boston got Rick Nash and Tyler Seguin out of Phil Kessel and Andrew Raycroft.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 6:40 PM EST reply actions
hahahahahhahahahhahahaa
no they are not offering that
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Likely CBJ would've already said yes..
So that probably wasn’t the offer.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
there is no way in hell that was anything close to an offer, plus it would be stupid for Boston to even get Nash, they don’t need him or his contract
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
Guessing Haggerty is just way overvaluing Nash.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
According to who?
That is such an insane overpayment it is not even funny. I wouldn’t trade Rask for Nash straight up. Rask is their future in net.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
by BCapp on Feb 17, 2012 6:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Clearly the team acquiring him is going to need Nash badly enough to justify fitting him in with the cap but Columbus isn’t considering the salary dump as any compensation. It’s going to take some big pieces to get him.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
duh, but in any deal salary is going to need to go back, and since nash is primarily looking for picks and young prospects/players probably on entry deals someone on a big (and shorter term contract) will have to go back,
Lets just say it was the Leafs, one of Armstrong, Komisarek, Lombardi or Connolly would have to go back
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 17, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah Army, Lombo or Komi going back takes out the salary from the equation. Then you’ve got to pay for the talent itself.
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure why a deal for Grabbo to CBJ to even out the money and let them flip Grabbo for picks + the difference between Nash and Grabbo wouldn’t work. Would people honestly not deal Schenn and Kadri to turn Grabbo into Rick Nash?
by scott tubbesing on Feb 17, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Nash goes anywhere if he doesn’t end up in LA…..the Jackets need players at every position…and if you want to listen to Bob"I still have sources" McKenzie…the Kings have Bernier and Jack Johnson on the table as a starting point…..personally I despise McKenzie…but what he is saying about this deal makes sense…Nashville is another destination tht BM mentioned…but there is no way the Preds fuck up that badly,is there? and would Columbus really deal Nash to a team in their own division? Doubtful,unless they are already planning to move to Seattle or Kansas City…or keebec
by wayne scarlett on Feb 18, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
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