What, You Wanted Another Trade?
by JP Nikota on Feb 28, 2012 7:01 AM EST
in From The Branches
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PrintOK, so Brian Burke did make a trade. It's just that it wasn't the one most people were hoping for. Carter Ashton is perhaps not the 'Carter' most people were hungry to see in a Leafs uniform, but he may well make the Leafs roster at some point - something Keith Aulie was looking less and less likely to do on a permanent basis.
I think I'm in good company when I say that Brian Burke being relatively quiet at the deadline is a good thing for the Leafs. It does, of course, mean that Ron Wilson's head is going to roll if/when this team doesn't make the playoffs. Burke believes in this group, and if Wilson can't take them to at least a first-round exit, I think we all know what's going to happen.
Naturally, we turn first to James Mirtle to give us quotes from the big man himself:
"Panic can’t be part of your vocabulary if you’re a general manager," he said. "If you want to win a championship, that can’t be part of it. Setbacks for 10 days or 12 days, that can’t be how you guide the ship. You can’t change your course because you have 10 bad days out of 180 or 190 days in the season.
Jump for more.
Leafs Links:
How the Maple Leafs Fared On the Trade Deadline
The one and only PPP with his take on the goings on at The Leafs Nation.
When NHL Twitter Accounts Go Bad
The latest from Dirty Dangle.
Toronto moves Keith Aulie to Tampa Bay for Carter Ashton
Justin Fisher of Hogtown Hockey has his say.
Keith Aulie traded for Carter Ashton
Jeffler with his two cents.
Dirty Dangle 2012 NHL Trade Deadline Drinking Game!
Like Leafs fans need the help.
Burke has luxury of standing pat
Wilson, not so much. Story from Jeff Blair at the Globe.
We rule the internet.
Hard. From Chris Lund at Backhand Shelf.
More ruling.
More us. Still from Chris Lund.
What I liked—and didn’t like—about the Leafs' activity (and inactivity) on deadline day…
From Michael Langlois.
Other Hockey Links:
Rivalry renewed, Oilers trump Jets
A sliver of good news for the Leafs' slipping playoff hopes.
It was prudence, not parity that made the deadline boring
A good little read from Ryan Lambert at Puck Daddy.
Scott Howson tosses Rick Nash under the C-bus, reveals captain’s trade demand
For some reason, I thought it was Nash's agent that went public with the demand, but nuts to Howson. Story from Wyshynski.
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Slowly, slowly, wearing her down.
I showed my wife that seagulls/stamkos picture and she laughed and said, alright you and your online nerds are pretty funny.
This comes a few days of her ranting about how she knows more about the Leafs than the Habs now.
The plan is slowly coming together. Now I must get her on the twitters…
by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 7:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The trick to victory in this matter is patience. You can’t change your plans based on 10 bad days.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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by Learn2Leaf on Feb 28, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Will you be writing a “how to guide”? My wife still hates the Leafs, but to be fair she hates all teams equally. She did say that she respects other teams more because they win…I fear getting my wife to cheer for the Leafs may be a battle I can’t win. Saturday she jokingly (I Hope) mentioned that the lock year may have been the best year of marriage
Bam Bam.- digga digga damm
It kinda increases the pressure on all us Leaf fans to perform well though, eh?
That’s a lot of pressure, in a big town.
Too much maybe.
Might wanna put a 10 day delay on your twitter feed.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Well its now or never for this team. Go on a run and you can make it, keep losing and some of you wont be wearing blue and white next season.
Dat rebuild
I dont know how many of the players care about staying in TO but they’re playing for RWs job. I wonder how much they like him.
Dat rebuild
It’s probably a combo of things, if the players like RW then they have some motivation to win for him. They also want to not fuck this up because that’s a black mark on their careers if and when they try to find work elsewhere.
There are indications that Wilson’s lost that room.
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
How would someone describe Ron Wilson and the return he got on his investments while in Toronto? I was thinking about this the other day. It seems to me that RW has had some success at developing individual players talents and helping them play up to (or party to) their potential. Take for example, Grabbo, who was pretty much a castoff from MTL (lol). Other examples of this include (but are not limited to) Kessel (to a certain extent), MacArthur, Schenn, and even Bozak. However, I believe it is just as important (if not more) that the coach develop and instill a quality system under which the current players can thrive and be successful in.
Last year (And it looks like we may be approaching the same this year), the team had 4 20+ goal scorers. Yet, many night we’ve seen the offense not only unable to score, but, many times have trouble even penetrating the offensive zone. The same story can be told on defense. Going into this season, I believed (at least on paper) we had a very good defensive group that would be able to provide in the very least adequate defensive coverage. I mean, guys like Aulie (who had a strong showing in the second half of last season) were axed and sent to the minors because there was so much competition for their jobs (and also, he played like crap in the pre-season).
So, what gives? Is it Wilson who is failing to get the most out of this bunch, or have we vastly over-rated what this roster is actually capable of?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Feb 28, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
what about Schenn & Kulemin they’ve both taken steps backwards
Glenn Healy = Raw sewage.
Lol Howson
by Future_considerations on Feb 28, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
That’s only as of this season. Maybe it’s a trend that will continue and they will both be considered “busts”, but, at present, it’s to early to tell.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Feb 28, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Tlusty looks decent on the canes – mitchell/versteeg etc. All coaches have successes and failures – I’m not sure if Wilson is any better or worse then the average NHL coach.
Tlusty has look decent since Maurice was canned…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
he’s also a 3rd line (tops) player playing with Staal. Staal would make me look good. And I’ve never played a real game of hockey.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Yep… and that’s why I’m hoping Burke recognizes that and hoists him off on someone else this summer… cough Colorado in a package for Stastny
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely, but Bozak is putting up far better numbers than Tlusty.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Mitchell isn’t that great.
The only difference between Mitchell now and then is that Mitchell is a 4th liner on an elite team, as opposed to a 4th liner on a terrible team.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
In fact: he’s at 0.3 PPG with NYR this year, as opposed to being around 0.4 in his two full seasons with the Leafs.
The difference is first place team vs. last place team, really.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Kulemin’s play has gone backwards much. He’s not scoring, but his 6.8% shooting percentage is a correction on last year’s 17%. I still really like the way Kulie plays the game, glad he didn’t go in a trade.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
He needs to shoot the puck more and needs to make plays a little quicker. He seems to be behind the play at times
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I can’t remember which commentator it was last week that said it, but they were dead on when they observed that he seems he’s about half a beat off of where he needs to be to make plays
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Ray Ferraro, I think.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
by jrwendelman on Feb 28, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I think he started the season playing well but not scoring, and now the not scoring part is starting to affect the rest of his game in a negative way.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
He’s not shooting either. Even with that insane 17% shooting he’d be at 15 goals right now.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I know his shots are down, and don’t disagree with leafer’s assessment that (recently, at least) he’s seemed a little hesitant and behind the play. I think the shots thing can be at least partially explained by MacArthur’s struggles earlier this year. I just don’t think that line was clicking the way it did last year and Kulie wasn’t seeing the puck as much as a result.
The hesitancy – who knows – confidence? Hard for me to believe that’s the “real” Kulie; we didn’t see evidence of him being slow or behind the play in previous years, and he’s not old enough to be losing a step.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
Hard for me to believe that’s the "real" Kulie
100% agreed
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
That’s the thing – he really hasn’t looked like himself this year. But how do we know the “real” Kulemin is last year’s Kulemin instead of this years? It’s probably somewhere in the middle.
Is that good enough?
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
The one thing I’d point to is that it wasn’t just last year’s scoring explosion that got people liking Kulie. He potted 15 and 16 goals respectively in the two previous seasons and played a responsible defensive game with energy and just enough offensive creativity to imagine him as a key part of one of the top two lines.
I don’t think his play is way off of that level – a bit, maybe – but his scoring is.
In sum, I guess I agree with you to the extent that last year was not the “real” Kulie – nobody is going to sustain that 17% shooting percentage – but I can easily see him being a consistent twenty/twenty-five goal scorer in this league in the right circumstances. And that’s “somewhere in the middle” in terms of scoring results, so…maybe?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
by jrwendelman on Feb 28, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
If he doesn’t change his shooting game he’ll never hit 20 goals again.
THAT is why I’m worried.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Oh no, the mid second round pick will ONLY become a defensively responsible forward who chips in 15-15 a year.
WHATEVER will we do?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Worried about the cap hit of said defensively responsible forward.
I’m holding off too much until he re-ups this summer. If he takes the QO for $2,2M, fine(he won’t IMO)
If he’s getting a raise based on his 30 goal run last season? Uh oh. That’s a lot for a defensive forward.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
What about Brian Burke’s track record with negotiating RFA deals makes you worried?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Heh, let’s just see what happens. Not sure the last RFA deal he did with Kulemin will go the same way that this one will.
I think he has arbitration rights this year too. Not that I expect it will come down to that.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Kulemin’s not exactly doing himself any favours with leverage.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
He does have leverage of his QO being 2.7 million (15% raise on 2.35)
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
He should be QO’d, I wouldnt risk paying him too much based on one season.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
If I’m his agent I don’t take a QO – I take Burke to arbitration.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
tough case withy 3/4 seasons very different than a single standout. Maybe he gets more in arbitration (they almost always do) but it isn’t that good of a case.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
I haven’t done the comparables yet but I’m going to say his agent probably has a pretty good case for a raise.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s arb eligible… not all RFA are Arb eligible
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Why don’t you think so? He’s had enough years in the league I believe.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I thought you only had Arb eligibility your last 2 years of RFA… doesnt Kuli have 3?
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
His QO is 2.2. I posted it from cap geek yesterday. His salary this year is 2.2 million and there is no raise because it is above 1 million.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
ahhh gotcha I thought there was always the 15% raise
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Nah it’s either 5% or 10% if you’re less than $1M, but above that it’s just previous cap hit or something
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
We’re not worried about whether he’ll do well for a second round pick. We’re worried about whether he’ll do well as an NHL player. Joey Crabb is a kick-ass seventh round pick – I believe he’s the best player from his entire round – but that doesn’t mean I’m excited to have him in the lineup.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
MacArthur’s been better than he was last year. In almost 2:00 less per game than last season he’s got a higher goals per game and the same shots per game.
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Ron Wilson is a confusing guy. MacA has been demanding more minutes all season and doesn’t really get them. Schenn after having 5-6 good games at around 15 minutes a night has an alright 21+ minute game against Vancouver and then sees something like 13 minutes the next night. All very confusing.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
The only thing I’m quibbling with is the proposition “Kulemin is shooting less, therefore Kulemin is playing worse.” I don’t know if there’s a way to evaluate this or not, but it strikes me that it’s at least possible that “Kulemin is shooting less because Kulemin is not getting the puck as much as a result of things his linemates are doing (or not doing).”
Actually, based on the MacA numbers you quoted, it looks like there is some reason to believe that MacArthur is shooting more frequently (same shots/game in reduced minutes), which must mean he’s passing less, leading to fewer total opportunities for Kulemin to shoot the puck.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
Even when Kulemin has the puck on his stick he chooses to pass/go around the back of the net… hard to blame that on MacArthur. If you’re MacA – do you pass to Kulemin either right now?
I think Kulemin not shooting the puck and Kulemin playing worse go hand in hand – hard to say which is causing which.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Obvious example is obvious; is it also anecdotal? I don’t know, and I suspect that no one else does either.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
Grabovski and MacArthur’s goals per game are exactly the same as last year. Kulemin’s assists per game is identical to last year.
It’s pretty clear the problem with MGK is Kulemin not scoring, which leads us to his widely predicted shooting percentage regression AND his lack of shooting this season.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Maybe he’s taken advanced stats to a whole new level: knowing he’s not going to score (on account of the regression), he has determined he shouldn’t shoot, because anyone not named Nikolai Kulemin has a better chance to score. Then, at the end of the year – having posted a brutally low shooting percentage, and being guaranteed to regress in the opposite direction now, he’ll shoot from wherever and cash in a Gretzkyesque 90 goals.
/Stop typing the angry replies, I’m kidding.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
by jrwendelman on Feb 28, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
In all seriousness, though, MacA’s “same shots per game in fewer minutes” is offence that the line is generating and for which MacA is getting credit, but all things being equal, that offence probably has to come from somewhere. Isn’t it possible that Kulie is feeling those effects?
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
That’s certainly possible.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
It is so true. He needs to shoot the fucking puck.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Kulemin misses the net a shit load. The only things that have frustrated me more this season are the inconsistent goaltending and the inability to clear the fucking puck out of the zone.
RE-SIGN GRABBO
by Chris Stoikoff on Feb 28, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Kulemin’s shots per game are down from 2.1 last season to 1.4 this season which is lower than the 1.7 he had as a rookie.
It’s not just a shooting percentage correction: Kulemin has been awful AND unlucky.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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we also have a very young roster… those are known for being inconsistent. Not that this answers all questions, but it’s a part of the equation.
We have one “young” player in our offensive top six: Phil Kessel. Bozak is 25. Kulemin is 25, MacArthur is 26, Grabovski is 28, Lupul is 28.
Are all of those guys “old”? No, of course not, but they’re not 22.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Kessel is 24, one year difference from Bozak
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
okay, and Macarthur is 26, only one year from bozak! oh wait! and phaneuf is 27, one away from macarthur! grabbo/lupul are only 1 away from mac! et al…
that’s not the point. 24 = young, but 25 does not?
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Bozak turns 26 in March.
Kulemin turns 26 in July.
MacArthur turns 27 in April.
So your point is disingenuous.
Our top six is Kessel (24), Bozak (26), Kulemin (26), MacArthur (27), Grabovski (28), and Lupul (28).
That’s a bit different from Kessel and Bozak are basically the same age.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
For some reason, I feel like baking a cake.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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The main issue here is that our top six forwards aren’t “young”.
Our defense is young, our forwards are all in their prime.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
At least Bozak/MacA/Kule are in the good side of their prime.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Kessel too. Hard to argue that this isn’t Lupul’s prime seeing as its his best season. I’ll bet he breaks his previous high in points next year too, maybe not this years point toal but 55 or whatever it was.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I’d target a team long on defence and short on top six wingers and move Lupul this summer
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Nashville is the first team that spring to mind. Completely agree though this summer Lupul+ could get us the D-man we deserve. Opening up a hole for Kadri/Colborne/Ashton/D’amingo (whoever is ready basically) in the top 6
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Are all of those guys "old"? No, of course not, but they’re not 22.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
So basically over the next two years you need Kadri, Colborne et al to be stepping into those top six roles and replacing guys as they enter their 30s.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Only Grabbo and Lupul hit 30 in the next 2 seasons. Kule/Bozak/MacA are younger.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Which is just as well since if the Leafs get 2 top six forwards out of their current crop of prospects they’re probably above average in terms of development.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Players are playing for contracts. They’re not losing because they don’t like the coach or have too much pressure. They’re always under pressure, just like you or I would be under if we worked 82 days a year and had to be one of the best 200 guys in the entire world at our job.
The Leafs lost a bunch of games in a row due to a combination of: bad luck (to offset earlier good luck), lack of talent.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Did you not listen to Burke?! Patience!
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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Don’t worry about it. I’m sure the iceberg will float out of our path.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
You do realize that one of the problems was that the Titantic was urged to go faster to break the record for crossing the Atlantic, right? It would have.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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There was also the minor problem (IIRC) that the main engine wouldn’t do reverse… only the auxiliary engines would
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, my memory tells me that when they saw the iceberg, they threw everything into reverse which caused them to lose a lot of maneuverability since the engines had to work against the momentum, causing the ship to drift into the iceberg when trying to turn. They might have missed it if they had continued at full pace and turned.
Still, running your engines at full speed in the night was pretty stupid.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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yeeaaah… as a captain you should know I can maneuver around anything at ____ speed if I can see it ____ metres in advance. If you can’t see that far ahead of you slow the fuck down
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
This is all bullshit, man
They were overloaded. By about 280 pounds.
Shoulda tossed a coupla deadweight items overboard. For the greater good.
* whistles *
“Hey! Leo! Kate! C’mere! Something amazing out there on the waves I want you two to look at. Here. Lemme hold your valuables!”
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
The thinking wasn’t that they would have missed it entirely, but they would have just knocked it away and absorbed the impact without taking as much damage because the front of the ship was heavily reinforced.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Yeah, if they had hit the iceberg straight on they would have been okay because only like 3 of the compartments would have been affected. Scraping the side put water in 4(I believe) which was one more than the ship could handle and so the ship sank
Moral of the story, don’t use shoddy construction techniques when building a ship that’s supposed to break world speed records.
RE-SIGN GRABBO
by Chris Stoikoff on Feb 28, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
some of you wont be wearing blue and white next season.
But Galchenyuk will be. Wooooo!
"I myself am made up entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
Suck for Galchenyuk!!
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
We either make the playoffs or get a top-ten pick and a new coach. Hard to complain about either outcome.
My degree is worthless
by Godd Till on Feb 28, 2012 7:31 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
yeah but that complaining would be worse if we had somehow traded our 1st away.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
Better than late first rounders (last year) or none (before that)!
Wooooooooooooooooo
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 7:42 AM EST up reply actions
It’d be a lot easier to swallow if Burke came out and acknowledged that he was wrong about this process taking more than 5 years. We’re at 3.5 years now if I’m not mistaken. But for him to come out and say he’s “not disappointed” that they couldn’t add a top 6 F with size, after scratching and clawing for months and months to pry one away from somewhere, is a bit insulting.
I know that he has to say he’s not disappointed. That he believes in this group. But I think Burke’s (and Wilson’s) arrogance is starting to wear thin for a lot of people when they have literally nothing tangible to show for it as of yet.
heads will roll when we don’t make the playoffs, pretty clearly.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 7:42 AM EST up reply actions
Im actually kinda worried that if the Leafs make the playoffs and get beat up in the 1st round Burke will use that as enough reasoning to keep Wilson for another season.
Dat rebuild
And probaby re-sign Gus because he “saved our season”… nevermind that January was one of only two good months he’s had so far in Toronto.
Can’t remember who said it, I think it was someone on TSN, but after Burke said Gustavsson had saved their season the reaction basically was “So what? That’s his job as the back-up. To back up the starter. You know, in case he goes down.”
Seriously, if Gustavsson hadn’t done his job while Reimer was out, then that would just be more of an indictment of Burke for counting on him to do that job at the beginning of the year. I’m glad he played well, but I don’t look at it as asking him to do anything superhuman.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure we re-sign Gus at the end of this….I think it may depend on other goalies available, like Harding….
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty damn sure he doesn’t get re-signed.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Hell, I can’t even say for sure he’ll play again this year
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Gus has been better than Reimer this yr since his injury. Are you saying you want to run Reimer for every remaining game even if he is letting in 4 goals nightly?
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
That’s pretty much the consensus around these parts at this point
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
maybe not every remaining game but most. He’s our goalie of the future. Burke believes in him, i think he’s got a lot of potential but for fuck’s sakes we need someone to help him out consistently more. 1A 1B would be nice.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Yup. Balancing Gus/Reimer was nice for a while but we’re 3 points back and I don’t trust Gustavsson to not shit the bed. I don’t really trust Reimer either right now, but he’s here for 2 more years and will likely be either “the guy” or the backup to a vet signing/trade in the summer.
Let’s see what he’s got. Trade deadline is over, no help is on the horizon.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I’d be fine with another young-ish goalie (a la Harding) who has more GP (I know Harding only has about 100~ but he’s probably the best UFA goalie available, unless Nabokov doesn’t re-sign with NYI)
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
I have 0 faith in NYI’s ability to re-sign Nabokov.
I also have very little faith that he’ll want to come play in TO though.
The guy obviously wants a contender. And I mean a REAL contender.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
In conclusion, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I would like to rest my case by saying Garth Snow is an idiot.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
I thought the Islanders would clean house again. Apparently he wanted a 1st for Parenteau. And wanted to trade Montoya, Eaton and Staois but that never happened. Let’s see who he resigns. Also Parenteau point production is impressive.
He’s also 30 playing in his 2nd full season in the NHL and is playing with Tavares… I don’t trust him to maintain these points…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I thought he was a couple years young (like 26 or 27). He is 28, turning 29 next month. While his point totals are likely elevated, he is a very talented player (and has always been considered one from my understanding) who wasn’t given much of a chance because of somehting. I always thought it was size but apparently that is fine.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Just looked now, I got the 30 and 2nd year off twitter yesterday.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Some NYI fans claim he was spending more time on the second line but I haven’t looked into it to confirm or deny.
Tavares, Moulson and than Nielson
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I won’t say that, but I’d like Wilson & Co. to take a stronger look at the performance the goaltenders give when deciding who to start. Reimer may have let in four goals last game, but it wasn’t like he was whiffing on all of them, at most one was his fault. Is that enough of a reason to go to Gustavsson who’s last goal was going wide until he tried to play it? (And despite some huge saves to keep the Leafs in it, was partially fault on pretty much all the goals that night as well.)
Gus is going to play more this season, but outside of decent tending when Reimer was hurt and an outstanding January, he hasn’t been good.
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Play the shit out of Reimer. End of story in my book.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I think they need to answer if Reimer is still the future #1 goalie. At this point I think they have given up on Monster. And depending on Reimer’s play, that will determine who the other goalie they need to sign for next season (backup or alternate or starter)
While I think you’re right on needing to decide if Reimer’s the #1 we need or not. I think it’s more the fanbase and the media who have given up on Gus. The Monster may be second best in Wilson or Burke’s eyes, but if Reimer falters tonight in FLA, expect to see Gus suit up for the next one. And if he wins, we’ll see the narrative start shifting for the fiftieth time this year…
Pitiful, phantom goals or not, Gus has outplayed Reimer this season…
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Phantom goals are the reason Gus will always be worse.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
It’s easy for us to say that and it is certainly the reason the dude will never make it in this city. But facts are facts. The team has a better record with him in net and his stats are marginally better than the guy who’s supposed to be our number one.
Logically, unless Reimer magically starts performing to his abilities, the team has a better shot at making the post-season riding Gus’s mediocre goaltending with the odd soul destroying fuck up than Reimer’s…
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I’d rather Reimer and his 4 good goals against a game than Gus and his 3 wait how the fuck did that go in goals a game. Reimer at least has the potential to stop his 4 goals Gus will always let in the bad goals
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Gus occasionally shits the bed. Reimer lets in more goals, wins fewer games (this year, anyway)…either way, this team sucks in net. On that, I’m sure we can all agree.
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
No I’m actually happy with Reimer in net…
Also goalie wins are the dumbest thing ever. I could stop 59/60 shots and still lose the game.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Raycroft had 37 wins in 2006-07. This shows how pointless wins are.
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by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Please don’t mistake me as saying “Gus is god.” My point is that given the play of both goaltenders over the course of the season, it would seem Monster gives the Leafs a slightly higher chance of making the playoffs this year.
But to your point, if Leafs management is not all concerned about making the post-season, then we’re probably better served by playing Reimer and seeing how it goes.
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
And I disagree 127%… We won’t make the playoffs unless Reimer is in net and playing well.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
As a measure of a goalie’s ability, totally agree.
Fundamentally, though, the team that wins enough games to make the playoffs makes the playoffs. If the goal is to make the playoffs, you play the goalie with the best chance to help your team win the game. Right?
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
If your team can’t win with the better goalie in net than there is something wrong with the team and not the goalie
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Unless your goalies are, you know, not good at hockey, regardless of which one is better than the other one.
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
No, you couldn't stop 59 of 60 shots.
54, maybe.
But no way you’d do better than .900 in the NHL.
/justsayin’
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
haha I meant hypothetical “I’m the clear vezina winner every season” me… you know the one in all my day dreams
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Bah – I have pitched three shutouts against my 3 year old nieces. I could do it.
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I played 3 years of Highschool hockey and a few years of rep before that I’m sure I’ll be just fine
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Were the two happiest days of your life when that kid from UBC backed up in Vancouver and when that beer league guy backed up in Minnesota? "I GOT THIS, ALL I NEED IS A SHOT. CAN’T SPELL WIZARD OF NAZ WITHOUT W.O.N!!!!!! ;)
If you look up "Loyalty" in the dictionary you'll see a picture of a Leafs fan wearing a Todd Gill jeresy looking like he just got punched in the stomach
stealing goals from the clutches of saves.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Reimer had a .911 save proportion in February, compared to .879 for Gustavsson.
#nutstoyourarbitrarytimelines
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly. Schwab saved our season in 2002 by playing insanely good while Cujo was injured. No reason to resign him, though. Whoop dee frickin doo.
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Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
As am I, but what are you going to do. That will be overshadowed by PLAYOFFS!!!!.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
you forgot the 1 at the end of PLAYOFFS!!!!1
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t believe that – I really don’t. Unless there’s a compelling coach out there to Burke, Wilson’s going to coach out most of his extension. Burke still doesn’t have the team he wants – missing too many holes. I suspect Burke is the sort of GM who won’t hang his coach unless he’s got most of the team Burke wants under him. The talent isn’t there yet.
Wilson is the Devil you know but he did bring in Caryle onto the ducks so there is that. That said, I tire of the talent argument – look at what Suter has done for the flames (who have less talent + kipper) or Tippett with Phoenix.
To me it seems that Wilson is not good enough a coach to have the team overachieve and not bad enough to fault or necessary fire for underachieving so we get mediocre coaching and mediocre results.
:-(
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 8:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Weird, that’s what I was going to name my autobiography.
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Feb 28, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
If they had made a big trade and missed the playoffs or were clobbered in the first round, would you feel better?
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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Or we get 9th place and remain mediocre wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
with great mediocrity comes disappointing setbacks!
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
Actually we’re a young team, so we are consistently inconsistent.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
9th in the East could easily end up being 20th or 21st overall (meaning we pick 10th/11th).
Remember that season when we didn't have a disastrous soul-crushing 10-game stretch? Yeah me neither. tweet tweet @dannyd1976.
Which also means we get to spend two months speculating about how Burke may or may not trade up in the draft to get Tavares Yakupov
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
That TLN link wasn't written by PPP
It wasn’t his quality either.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
Sorry for the whining, I must be posting too early in the morning.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
Saying Carter Ashton put up a ppg in his 5th year isn’t really true. He played 2 games in 06/07, his first real year was 07/08
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
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your right, it was his fourth year. he was traded, so there were two lines there.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
other then that mistake. any other critisism?
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
not to be a dick, just genuinely interested
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
There were a lot of typo’s, but more importantly there were a lot of mistakes. A couple examples:
-Aulie came to Toronto 2 years ago, not last year
-Aulie paired with Phaneuf on his second call up, not his first
-As Leafer pointed out calling it his 5th year is disingenuous
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
heh, trade deadline craziness! I wish I had strike through powers on the Leafs Nation.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Besides that I enjoyed it.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Thanks BCapp. I always like to hear some criticism
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
“didn’t do nothing” is an awkward and unnecessary double negative. I thought I noticed a couple of other grammatical errors (that could also have been typos). The content wasn’t bad – a fair summary of the trades – I just didn’t get much out of it. I did think it odd to finger Aulie as one of the worst culprits on D while also making a plea for more ice time for Schenn, and to review the Leafs’ objectives with no mention of goaltending at all.
Mostly I think I was just crabby.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
fair enough. If you read some of my past posts I made an arguement for Schenn to see more ice time as he was starting to come out of his funk. Aulie has probably been the worst defensman to suit up for the Leafs this year, not his fault but still he was getting more minutes then Schenn in his time up. I didn’t touch on goaltending because I didn’t think it was something Burke could have or should have done at the deadline. Reims is locked up for a couple more years and if were going to win, its probably going to be because he’s the guy.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
thanks for the input though! appreciate it.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Aulie was certainly bad and shouldn’t have played in the NHL this year, from would I could tell; but he did only get into 17 games. The worst culprits on D have been Komisarek and Schenn, who were both expected to provide that defensive presence the team has sorely needed. I hope you’re right that Schenn is coming around, but I haven’t seen it myself.
Burke definitely should have improved the goaltending at the deadline. However, I can only say that not knowing the price. Gustavsson is not good enough and Reimer is still unknown, and a 25th-best save percentage is a major weakness for this team. Nabokov or Harding would have stabilized the position. Again, though, if the price was too high then Burke was right not to pay it.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Burke definitely should have improved the goaltending at the deadline
Sounds like NYI didn’t make Nabokov available (dumb dumb move) and Leafs inquired into the availability of Harding.
Gotta think the asking price was astronomical if it was such a short conversation.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, the price was too high and Burke believes in Reims. I still think reimer is the goalie we saw last year, not post-concussion (or whatever) this year
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
also, if the Marlies do well in the playoffs I could see Burke moving a D-man to bring Holzer to the NHL.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Which means Schenn (assuming Burke can’t trade Komi, which for the first time in a few seasons, might be possible).
I think he can move Komi. That’s my guess. It’s pretty clear from statements all this year they think Holzer is ready….but my guess is they want him in AHL playoffs rather than sheltered NHL minutes. Possible Schenn moves, but I think Frason is also possible.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone know the deal with Lashoff also?
He’s not very good, but he could also be a stopgap
by Holidays in the Sundin on Feb 28, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Suffered a knee injury and is out for the season. Free agent too I believe
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Question
on NHL.com it lists goalie sv% broken down by ES, SH, and PP. It lists Reimer’s “PP sv%” as .800… but shouldn’t that stat be labelled as his SH sv%?
Leafs have 3 short handed goals against. Im having trouble finding if they’re against reimer, and the shots, but because there are such few shots against on the PP, i wouldnt be surprised if that is right. I bet the SH S% is lower than that.
Hmm. Looking at it, he’s right, they’re flipped. Remer’s allowed 2 SH goals on 24 shots shorthanded for a S% of .917 compared to Gus’ 1 SH goal on 32 shots for a S% of .967.
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
I leaped into the air expecting more!
…but didn’t get this verbally promised “more” until I clicked the “Continue reading this post "” link. Morning ruined.
by ButWhatDoesMineSay on Feb 28, 2012 8:19 AM EST reply actions
Getting a Carter but not the one everyone wanted and/or expected reminds me of another trade deadline deal. Everyone wanted and thought we were close to getting Blake. Instead we ended up with an anagram and damn awesome guy in Belak. Let’s hope this Carter helps us forget not acquiring Jeff for the 3rd time.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 8:28 AM EST reply actions
If ever a player appeared destined to never suit up for the Leafs, it’s Jeff Carter
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
Next thing you know, they acquire a guy named Geoff Carter.
by Marc Pilgrim on Feb 28, 2012 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
A little inconsistent. Burke is a bad GM because he doesn’t see how bad his team is and should have made changes, but he’s a good GM because he’s sent the message that the time for excuses is over. I actually would not be surprised if the Leafs came out and crushed the Panthers. They are a fragile team, but there are sometimes benefits to that.
by Leaf in Habland on Feb 28, 2012 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
I’m reminded of how the Blackhawks, after losing 9 straight, came out and scored 4 goals in the first 10 minutes against the Rangers. You could tell that entire team was pissed off as fuck and had enough.
If the Leafs truly have hit rock bottom now, they’re going to be pissed off enough to potentially make it a reality.
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Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
They better show some fucking play tonight. I’ve had enough of this terrible slide, and I think Burke is pretty clear that they are good enough and if they don’t perform, there will be big changes in the summer.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
They need the first goal. It used to be they could rebound from being scored on first because they had confidence. Now, they seem totally and utterly deflated when a team scores first. Case in point, the eight losses and who scored first:
@WPG- L 2-1- TOR
@PHI- L 4-3- PHI
MTL- L 5-0- MTL
@CGY- L 5-1- CGY
@VAN- L 6-2- VAN
NJD- OTL 4-3- NJD
SJS- L 2-1- SJS
WSH- L 4-2- WSH
7/8 losses, the other team scored first. And sure enough, in the one win, the Leafs pumped the Oilers for two early goals.
Scoring first probably means more now than ever.
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DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
that win against Edmonton was a battle of whose defense sucked more. Edmonton’s, just barely, was a bad sign of things to come.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
I know. I was there, and saw how awful it was firsthand. I even said after the game “if we play like that against Vancouver, we’re boned.” And so it was.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
the run and gun style just murders our defense.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Someone on twitter said something about how Aulie was going to end up sheltered in TB and looking good and everyone was going to freak out. While I don’t want to under-estimate people’s ability to freak out, the first part of the tweet made me wonder about this whole “sheltering” business. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if a player is sheltered or not. What matters is their actual output: for a forward, scoring goals against weak competition is the same as scoring goals against Esa Tikkanen’s line. For a defenceman, if you stop the other team’s line from scoring when you are out there, you’ve done your job. It’s up to the coach and GM to put together a line-up that wins games. So if a player like Aulie can be very effective against 3rd and 4th line players, then that’s who you play him against. I guess my point is that while I agree that people shouldn’t freak out if Aulie suddenly looks good, maybe it’s a sign that Guy Boucher is a better coach than Ron Wilson. Or at least, it’s one element or indicator of it. (this wasn’t meant to be a bash-Wilson post, but more an importance of coaching post).
by Leaf in Habland on Feb 28, 2012 8:50 AM EST reply actions
I see your point. I think the only caveat to that is that Wilson is already busy trying to shelter Komisarek, Schenn and Liles, and to a lesser extent Franson. Other than Gunarsson and sometimes Gardiner and Phaneuf, the Leafs don’t really have consistent, dependable defensive pairings anywhere in the top 6
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Aulie may very well end up BEING good.
Plenty of time for him to develop and TB’s prospect system on D is very thin. Sounds like he’s going right to the bigs and will earn some playing time.
In front of Roloson I’d be worried, but they’ll look on him with fresh eyes, give him the rookie treatment where he can do no wrong, I’m sure TB will be happy with him.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, considering he’s needed high sv%‘s to make him look “good” if roloson is giving him garbage goaltending. I think he’s gonig to look pretty bad, at least for a while
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Well we’ll find out soon enough. I hope it doesn’t come to bite us in the ass, but I like the return we got, so no biggie.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
I actually think Aulie still has a very good chance at being an NHL regular and a decent chance to be 4th guy on Tampa. I also think the Leafs have a tonne of better or equal options in their system. The trade was a good deal for the Leafs.
Really don’t think coaching comes into this.
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Keith Aulie can probably become an NHL defenceman.
Ketih Aulie probably won’t become a top-pair shut-down guy like the Leafs were auditioning him to be.
The Leafs have a number of other defence that can do that.
I’m fine with moving him to address needs elsewhere.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Pretty much consensus. Seems like Burke wants as many players of the “power forward” (loosely used) type as possible, maybe 1 of them pans out (Frattin, Biggs, Ashton)
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
well I’d say Frattin is panning out as at least a 3rd line forward. Who knows with Biggs/Ashton. Those are the bigger what ifs…
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Keep buying lottary tickets and hope one of them pans out. It’s the type of player Burke desperately wants.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Rick Nash.
Just saying. Not that we “need” him, but I think Burke takes a more serious run at him in the summer. Gardiner’s off the table though.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Fuck Nash if he’s going to cost a franchise player (which is what CBJ seems to want to come back)
#Parise2012 is about to pick up steam.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I’m all aboard #Parise2012 and #YuckItUpForGalchenyuk.
"I myself am made up entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
#SuckforGalchenyuk has a better ring to it… stop trying to hijack my movement
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Mines classier. #Justsayin’
"I myself am made up entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
Your moms classier!
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, I just think Bukre will still take a run at him. He may be 27, soon to be 28, but he’s exactly the power forward Burke wants.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Burke seems to be punching lotto tickets to find a “power forward”. Caputi, Frattin, Biggs, Versteeg, Ashton, his JVR and Malone crushes, and to a lesser extent, I think Ross and Leivo are both supposed to be guys who might grow into that role. Kinda like he’s done with the goaltenders, and a little bit with the offensive defenseman fetish, it seems to be “get as many as possible for as cheap as possible, hope one pans out.”
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by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
the thing I like about how many young “offensive” defensmen we have is that they have higher value then a shut down guys does in trades
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Versteeg’s a sailboat, not a power forward.
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by jrwendelman on Feb 28, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is true.
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by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Oh my you mean he’s stock piling lotto tickets for the 3 positions that are hardest to fill on a team? Also the positions that have the highest bust rate… its almost like his insulating himself so when 3/4 flame out he has that one who doesn’t
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Some of his finesse forward tickets have worked out (MacArthur, Lupul, Bozak). Power forwards (you could add Armstrong, Hanson and Irwin to that list if you wanted) have proven more problematic.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
See my comment literally right above.
the 3 hardest positions to find are a big top 6 power forward, an offensive defenseman that can play in the top 4 and a starting NHL goalie.
Those 3 positions also have the highest “bust” rate.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
define “#1C”…
because finding a PPG centre is tough sure, but finding a player who can be among the top 30 centres is PPG is a bit easier..
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
You named 2 guys that weren’t their teams #1 centre the year they won the cup.
Also did you notice that 3/4 can be considered PWF’s as well
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by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
We’re panning for gold. We’re going to find a lot of rocks.
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Yup. I don’t dislike the strategy, especially when it’s applied to goaltenders. That said, it’s unlikely to produce an elite talent, since you can usually see those coming from a while away.
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by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Tim Thomas says hi
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, I meant to say it’s unlikely to produce an elite talent at forward, since you can usually see those coming from a while away. Goalies? Who knows
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They are a special breed.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
TBL needed defense prospects/near NHL playerrs
We needed size up front.
We got a prospect with size, potentially 1-2 years from NHL, so a little further behind. It’s a good deal for us me thinks.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed. I like what I see out of Holzer and Blacker more than Aulie. As far as defensive D go, those guys fit our needs far more in the long haul.
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by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if a player is sheltered or not.
This is false. I would rather have 6 defensemen who can shut down 90% of the Sedins’ production than 6 defensemen who do a really, really good job of making sure Phillipe Dupuis doesn’t score. Therefore, line matching matters.
Further, I’m not sure who suggested that Aulie could be sheltered in Tampa Bay – it’s not like their defense is all that impressive.
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by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
6 defensemen who do a really, really good job of making sure Phillipe Dupuis doesn’t score
So…….any NHL quality defenseman?
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Toronto Sun proving again why its garbage
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Can’t say I disagree with headline but that’s just me
"Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help." Calvin and Hobbes
He isn’t whining. He is deflecting. All the media attention is on him now and not on the team that has lost 7 of 8.
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Well whining, deflecting. I’d say there isn’t much of a difference when it comes to the media
"Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help." Calvin and Hobbes
cuz Toronto media will use every opportunity to rip Burke and Wilson. Thats not to say he didn’t do this to himself…
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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It is the Sun so let’s just say I don’t go there for much analysis of current events. That being said, I think they bring up a good point.
"Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help." Calvin and Hobbes
What point is that?
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That these guys are professionals and shouldn’t fall back on the deadline affecting them. They are paid to win and deal with the many issues of pro sports and possible trades are one of them. I like Burke and I’m happy that he defends his player’s to the end but that doesn’t mean what he says is true.
"Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help." Calvin and Hobbes
but that doesn’t mean what he says is true.
EXACTLY
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Well perhaps what the Sun says may have some truth in it. I find it’s an excuse to say that the deadline is why the Leafs are losing.
"Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help." Calvin and Hobbes
You have a job to do. You go in every day and work hard. Then you get rumours that you may have to move to do the job in a different city across the continent.
Tell me it doesn’t affect you.
I won’t go bleeding heart here, but the insanity will sit in the back of their heads even if they laugh it off. Burke’s points have some validity even if his main goal is to give a little kick to the media who is always at his door and distract them from bothering the team.
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I’d say it’s probably not the easiest job to do and yes I’m sure they’d be happier if those rumours weren’t out there. But they are paid a large amount of money to do this job and part of it is still performing at a high level when the game is played, which is clear they haven’t for the last month or so.
"Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help." Calvin and Hobbes
If they get this nervous and pressured at the deadline, perish the thought of having to play in the playoffs. Which, legend has it, can be slightly stressful
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve made this point in other threads a few times over the past week and I’ll say it again: the attention leading up to this deadline wasn’t really that intense three or four weeks ago. Not any worse than it has been every other February for the last few years. It only reached a fever pitch over the last week because of the month-long slump. The team could have gone .500 in February, still been holding down 7th or 8th right now, and probably had a lot of fans and media cheering instead of crucifying them. To me Burke’s “the trade deadline is murder” argument is a straw man… or a red herring… or something like that.
I like the point which somebody else raised above or in a previous thread (can’t remember who) that Burke is just trying to deflect the criticism and draw media focus to himself…I don’t think he actually believes the hype he’s selling, he’s just trying to change/dictate the narrative…
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
DING DING DING
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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And that is why I love Burke and why he’s a great fit for the Toronto market. The more people talk about him the easier they (usually) take it on the team which makes things easier on the team
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Not many GMs would do this
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
See Howson, Scott
Man, I can’t believe he deep-sixed Nash like that last night…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Especially if there was real weight in this:
Brandon Dubinsky, defense prospect Tim Erixon, 2011 first-round draft choice J.T. Miller and 2010 second-round pick Christian Thomas, along with a 2012 first-round pick for Rick Nash.
Anyone else make that deal?
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JT Miller has some size but isn’t much more than a 2nd line player. And Thomas had a great year last year but is only 5’9 165 and has seen his scoring drop this year… although it looks like he suffering a bit of his team is not scoring much…
All in all thats a 2nd line centre, a good young dman who could be a top pairing guy possibly, a guy who could turn into dubinsky in 4 years, and a small guy with good hands but who knows what he can do as a pro. And a late 1st that will likely be at best 27th overall.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Dubinsky
late 1st
top D prospect
Last year’s 1st
McKegg (for a comparison)
That is a ridiculous haul
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A 2nd line centre, one high end lottery ticket and 3 mediocre lottery tickets with 2nd line upside… wooo great haul!!
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
uh…
its a really good hall. not sure what you expect them to get lol
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
You need to get at least one lottery ticket that can turn into a 1st line player imo.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
CBJ are stacked in 2nd line type forwards… Umberger, Brassard, Huselius.
They have one player besides Nash who has 1st line upside and that is Johansen.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Okay so basically you’d need BOTH you’re 1st line lottery tickets to hit. If only one hits you are still left with just one 1st line talent on the roster and you are right back where you were with Nash
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I have trouble seeing how they will do a lot better than that, given Nash’s NTC and his list of teams.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
If i’m Howson, I’m running to the bank with that … but running a team in Columbus is different than running a team in a “hockey town” (I assume).
He’d catch a ton of flak for trading “the face of the franchise” for “a bunch of guys I’ve never heard of” from the local media, and I’m assuming that has to play into his not accepting the offer.
They’re a better team with those guys instead of Nash, but they are not a more marketable team…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Hell we might be able to beat NYR’s offer if they want scoring, during the summer, depending on how things work out re: playoffs.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
To be honest that isn’t that good of a package… its basically Kuli, Biggs Blacker McKegg and a 1st
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
except a JT and Erixon a bit better than Biggs and Blacker. But McKegg > Thomas and has size which Thomas doesn’t
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
And I think Dubie is better than Kulie as well…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I think its a wash tbh
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Erixon has like 0.7 PPG as a d-man in the A and is supposed to be good defensively. He is closer to Gardiner than Blacker.
So yeah, Kuli, Biggs, Gardiner, Mckegg, and a 1st? Nuts.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I don’t think Erixon is close to Gardiner… Yes he’s better than Blacker but McKegg is better than Thomas and has a higher future because he actually has NHL size…
I think Blacker+McKegg= Thomas and Erixon
Also Biggs and our 1st (15-20 range likely) is equal to Miller and a 25+ pick
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Erixon was considered the only bright spot in the Flames prospect system. He has come over to North American ice and by all accounts done really well in the A.
For an example of his rankings, Hockey’s Future (back in October) ranked him 31st in the league. Gardiner did not make the top 50. Now obviously Gardiner has moved up since then (and McDonough too who was basically tied with him), but I don’t think Erixon has dropped.
He is a great player.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Being the best among a pile of shit doesn’t mean anything. I agree he’s very good and has high upside. However I believe Gardiner has passed him and Blacker isn’t that far off of him.
Maybe I’m just overrating Blacker, but damn he looks like the real deal.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
One more link
Can’t believe the amount of hysteria surrounding this team of late. In 3 1/2 years Burke has rebuilt this entire organization. This season more than most has proven that the Leafs fanbase cannot stomach a rebuild. If you’re interested, here’s a link to my site and recap of yesterday’s deadline http://hopeinthebigsmoke.ca/?p=1141
I don’t this “hysteria” is the correct word here. Has Burke “rebuilt” the team in his 3.5 years here? Yes. In the sense that the personnel are vastly different. But it seems that many of the holes that were so glaring 3.5 years ago, are still there now. BTW, after the 2007-2008 season, the Leafs finsihed 12th in the East with 83 pointsi n 82 games. Right now, they’re sitting in 10th with 65 points in 62 games. Is it an improvement in PPG basis? Yes. But, it’s still quite possible that they end up in the exact same position as the 07-08 season.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Feb 28, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
agreed. it’s clear now that Burke’s “rebuild on the fly” idea was half-baked and is not a model for a rebuild.
Since someone (coughJaredcough) will offer up the strawman that you can’t just win the cup by tanking for lottery picks a few years in a row, yes, I get and acknowledge that. (Aside: the use of Florida as a counter-example is highly amusing, seen as they’re likely playoff bound and we aren’t)
You still need competent management, but it’s clear to me now that you can’t rebuild a team without lottery picks.
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by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 9:24 AM EST up reply actions
but it’s clear to me now that you can’t rebuild a team without lottery picks.
I’d rephrase that to:
but it’s clear to me now that you can’t rebuild a team without lottery players.
See, the Leafs have, at present, at least 2 lottery players (Schenn and Kessel). Even though, with Kessel, he didn’t actually get drafted by this organization. I know people will throw out the arguement about the Wings, who haven’t had a lottery player in years, but that’s more the exception than the rule.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Feb 28, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
you need good players to rebuild a team?
Woooooooooooaahhhhh dude you just blew my mind!
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
there's a point we're failing to make here
Here’s why you need excellent young picks. Because you need players that are SO good that they’re NHL regulars at 20, while still making peanuts. That way you can load up on free agents and key pieces and go on a run while still staying under the cap.
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
It’s less about loading up on free agents, because frankly fewer and fewer good players get to UFA each year, than about having young players under controllable contracts. The sooner they get NHL ready, the more time you have them playing for you at a high level.
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by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
basically: draft, play ELC years, sign as RFA long-term for cheap.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
cheap relative to open market, obviously.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
How many players did Boston have like that last year? Or Vancouver?
Answer= Boston 2=1 who was scratched for half of the playoffs (Segiun), 1 was Marchand
Vancouver=0
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
While I appreciate this post, the 2=1 is messing with my head. Coffee break might be in order.
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We went through the last 20 years of stanley cup winners and I’m pretty sure we determined that over 90% didn’t have their own lottery picks.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
to clarify a pick that was their own and not acquired ala Neidermeyer as that isn't "tanking to get the pick"
1993- Habs
1994 – Rangers
1995 – Devils
1996 – Colorado
1997 and 1998 Detroit – had Yzerman 14 years later…
1999 – Dallas
2000 – NJD
2001 – Colorado
2002- Detroit
2003 – NJD
2004- Tampa – Had Vinny (1)
2006- Carolina – Staal (2)
2007 – Anaheim
2008 – Detroit
2009 – Pens (3)
2010 – Chicago (4)
2011 – Boston (I don’t count Seguin…)
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Okay sorry thats 4/19 which is less than 90% but still you see the pattern..
and Tampa and Carolina had only one high pick each…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
So the best way to rebuild a team is… acquire players that are good at hockey?
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Shocking I know…
It turns out if you acquire high end players it helps no matter how you do it.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
COUNTERPOINT: Flyers rebuilt a team almost entirely based on late 1st round picks (Carter, Richards, Giroux, etc).
Moreover, the Oilers still suck. But hey, they’ve got all those lottery picks! True, but all the damn picks in the world won’t draft you a half-decent defense.
Half-decent defense may also be a very applicable situation to the Leafs right now.
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by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Their entire D was brought in by trades (Pronger, Timmonen, Carle, Cobourne, Mezaros). Plus Briere (UFA) is a big part of their forward corps and Bob was a European UFA. On forward Hartnell is the only big piece traded for I believe.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
you can find serviceable UFA D-men, harder to do for scoring forwards.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
They didn’t find serviceable D-men.
They have one of the best D-men ever (at least one of the best of hte last 2 decades) in Pronger and one of the top 25 or so of the last 5 years in Timmonen. Behind them they have 3 legitimate D-men in Carle, Cobourne, and Mezaros.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
All still brought in by trades…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that call in shows and the media are screaming for both Wilson and Burke to be fired is hysteria in my opinion. While the fanbase is frustrated that they didn’t sell the farm for Nash is ridiculous. Hysteria may be a strong word, but it’s the most appropriate word that I can think of that describes some of the fans’ frustration. The depth that the organization now has compared to what they had before Burke’s arrival is dramatic. The top prospects that Burke inherited were Jiri Tlusty and Justin Pogge. Both the Leafs and the Marlies are competitive and rising, while the 07-08 team was an aging group that needed to be overhauled.
They may end up in the same position, but that team was trending down. I think this team is trending up.
Clearly, you see the glass as half-empty.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Clearly, you see the glass as half-empty
No. I’m just trying to be objective when analyzing Burke’s result with the team so far. We’re about to finish the 4th year of his “5 year” rebuild. You’re not going to go from 10th in the East (assuming the Leafs finish exactly where they are today), to being a contender in the 5th year.
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Feb 28, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree.
However, I don’t think it’s fair to say this team is in the same place it was in 07-08 either.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Other than potentially where they finish in the standings
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by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t have the answer but clearly Burke has improved the NHL team.
But has Burke improved the leafs more then what other GMs have done for their teams? That is are we just keeping pace or are we really improving.
That said, there is no question the quality of prospects has improved but the question above is in regard to the play of the NHL club.
Philosophical question: how can this be Year 4 of a 5-year re-build when Burke said he wasn’t interested in doing a 5-year rebuild?
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So technically he should be done already this year then? I dunno
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by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
I mean who the fuck cares what “year out of how many years” it is.
You guys are doing Bob McCown’s smug asshole “Year 7 of JP Ricciardi’s 5 year plan” routine. It’s tiresome and beneath someone of even medicore intelligence.
Is the team better? Yes or no? Only question I remotely give a shit about.
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Every GM is trying to improve their team each year.
The question should be – has Burke, improved his team more then what other GMs have done. And the way to determine this – is to look at the standing positions of teams year over year. To me his team is keeping pace with other bubble teams.
That said, the prospect farm looks very promising.
Conveniently, I wrote a post about this earlier in the season, and the answer was that the Leafs are performing better than the teams who also finished near the bottom of the standings with them 1.5 years ago.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2012/1/18/2717634/oh-progress-where-art-thou
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Why did you use 2009/10 (the team was 2nd to last that year) in Burke was almost 3/4 of a year into the rebuild.
I think the year Burke first joined would be better 2008/09 season because that is the team he inherited (or maybe even 2007/09). It is confusing because Fletcher made some moves too but I think the 2008/09 is not an objective starting point.
Because I want to see how the Leafs have improved relative to other teams that have finished near the bottom of the standings. I’m not going to hold the roster he inherited from JFJ against him.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
It seem arbitrary point. I mean if I compare at this year to last year, the Panthers GM looks like he is doing a phenomenal job and Burke is flat.
You should compare a team’s improvement to its lowest point, since that’s where it’s improving from. It’s not arbitrary at all, it’s “how has the team improved since it bottomed out?”
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I’m struggling with if this was that the teams natural trajectory. Or if the GM sell off assets, tank the team and then ice a AHL/NHL tweener team?
To me, I think it is fairer to compare the starting point X to the current point Y.
There is no such thing as a “natural trajectory” for a hockey team. Burke acquired a team that sucked. He had to dismantle it to start building something better. He’s still at work on that. If this season is the best that the team ever gets under Burke then yeah, he’s done a bad job. But if we continue the upward trajectory that we’re on? Then I’d say he’s doing pretty well.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I understand what you are saying. But I’m not sure I could convince my boss to wait a period of time to start my performance appraisal. It might not be accurate for the NHL. He might give me leeway in terms of time if things go down initially – but at some point, I need to be better then where I first started at. And not the lowest point during my tenure.
So Dale Tallon is the best GM in the league then… he drafted 3rd overall 2 years in a row and now has a potential division winner.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
The Panthers have improved nicely under Tallon, yes. I don’t think it’s sustainable because of how he’s done it (overpriced UFAs), but they have improved at a pretty good clip since he took over.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
it helps that the SE is a joke of a division right now.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I’m no fan of Bob McCown, who is a smug asshole, but it does matter. When a company board hires new management they have to present a plan, not just for year-to-year but beyond. If a company, long-term, doesn’t meet the targets set out by the CEO and by the board, that’s a problem.
If you end up in year 7 of a five year plan and you’re still spinning your wheels (like Ricciardi was) then you’re probably not going to be keeping your job much longer.
Look at it another way: if you hire a contractor to renovate your kitchen and he says it will take 6 months but ends up taking three years, are you going to be satisfied?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Especially if you figured it would probably take a year and hired the contractor because he promised he’d be able to do it in six months?
/torturedanalogy
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Look at it another way: if you hire a contractor to renovate your kitchen and he says it will take 6 months but ends up taking three years, are you going to be satisfied?
In your analogy, is my contractor competing with 29 other contractors for a scarce supply of resources?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I think the better analogy is that when Burke was hired, our “house” was a smoking pile of rubble. Since he was hired he’s cleared the rubble away and put up a fairly strong foundation (and probably some nice load bearing walls) of young prospects and players. Is the house finished now? Hell no, the bathroom is a hole in the backyard. But the foundation is there to have the “house” last for a long time
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
It is not even that it was rubble. It is that we had a house that was in rough position but probably could have been fixed to a decent state with a little work. The problem is the foundation was complete and utter shit, so instead of fixing the house first he cleared anything of value from the house so that he can fix the foundation, and build from their on up.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
The Leafs "house" when Burke took over
first.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Built by....
ToskaLOL (De)construction Inc.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
That analogy doesn’t take into account that there’s 29 other contractors looking to fix up their own house.
Only there’s only so much material that can go around. So two contractors might bid on the supplies they need to finish their bathroom, and whomever loses, they might need to trade some of their concrete in order to get the resources they need.
There’s no such thing as a linear progression from 30th place to 1st. There’s only so many spots on each rung of the ladder, and for one team to move up it requires another team to drop down, which they won’t do willingly.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I’d add that each contractor is also competing with all the other contractors in and out of the market for the right to improve your house in the first place. The pool of resources is the same, so it becomes an issue of whether you can do a better job than the contractor over there.
Ultimately, if I’m MLSE and I hired Burke based on his promise that he could build a contender without doing a five-year rebuild, then Burke must be evaluated by his own projections. That’s how management is evaluated in any other business. It’s fine to say the business is improving, but if you’re still missing your targets, you’re in trouble.
One more example: SNC-Lavalin today put out a release saying its 2011 net income would fall 18% short of its previously announced outlook. Sure the company has a long list of reasons why, as well as plenty of reasons why it expects to do better in 2012, but its shares are still down 22%.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Also: If Burke is competing with 29 other contractors for scarce resources, then I as the homeowner must take that into account when hiring him, and he must take that into account as well when making his estimates. Putting that up as an excuse after the fact isn’t good enough.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Last one: if your contractor sits on his ass for a month saying he has to “wait for the right paint to come in” are you okay with paying him the whole time? For a while, probably, but eventually you’re going to get fed up.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
So we should fire Burke and bring in…. who? Is there a GM out there that you think would have done a better job building the team from the dog shit he started with?
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I still think Burke is as good as anyone for the GM role. The thing is Burke has made mistakes, let’s hope he and the team recognize them, and that he is taking actions to correct them. I’m not sure everyone is convinced he has recognized the errors and/or will take the steps to correct them.
Everyone has their own list of problems – coaching, shutdown defender depth, no #1C, soft forwards, goaltending etc – and we disagree with the choices that have been made/continue to be made going forward.
Hold on. I’m not saying the Leafs need to fire Burke. But I do think he needs to be accountable for the fact that he promised certain things and failed to deliver on them.
Saying “well he’s doing the best he can, the team is definitely better, he started with nothing” is all well and good. But let’s not pretend that he didn’t know those things coming in. I certainly think that him saying he could make this team a contender in a certain time frame, and now missing that forecast (or soon to), is a valid point of criticism — as it is in any other line of work. Just as if he is successful, he will get all the praise. As he said, if he wins a Cup here they will name schools after him.
Whether this means he will lose his job depends on the patience of Rogers and Bell, not the fans. And, by the way, the people running those companies are going to view MLSE just like any other company. Oh, there’s 29 other competing GMs? Limited resources? Name me a business that doesn’t have competition and limited resources.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Hold up; what did he promise that he hasn’t delivered?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Wasn’t really a promise but he said he didn’t want to do a 5 yr rebuild.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
It hasn’t been five years so I’m not about to hang him. But it’s fair to note that he tried to avoid doing a rebuild, and now is going through with one anyway.
Saying “who cares what year it is” and “I only care if the team is better” isn’t as big an issue now, because it’s only been three, but if this turns into the Blue Jays under Ricciardi, who spent 7 years promising “maybe next year” then it does become an issue.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
How is he going through with a 5- year rebuild anyway?
Doesn’t a 5-year rebuild imply that you’re going the Edmonton route? He didn’t do that. Not at all.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I think the argument (I don’t necessarily agree with it), is that every year we are not in the playoffs is a year of rebuild, which would put us at 3.5
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Whatever.
It’s a stupid argument that’s best left to the Bob McCown’s of the world.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
If the leafs made the playoffs one of these 3.5 years (or even this year still) I’m certain there would celebration on how shrewd Burke is with the rebuild.
On the other hand, we know we have a great slew of prospects and the future is better, next year again. And it is even better this year, then last year and the year before that.
As stupid as it maybe, I think some fans are frustrated with the very real possibility of the no playoffs and the lack of apparent progress (because either they don’t see the girders and cement prospect foundations being put in place or think it is all a bunch of “next year” will be better hog wash).
Running a team doesn’t have to be so binary!
I guess if we want to get really semantic about it we don’t have to call it a 5 year rebuild. But he has a 5-year contract. which means he has a 5-year mandate from MLSE to run this team and produce a contender. if at the end of his contract they decide he’s made enough progress, the extend him. If not, then he gets let go. It doesn’t matter what label we put on it “five year rebuild” or not. He has five years, he’s used three. At the end of those five years, whatever the results are, those are his results.
But running a team by only saying “is it better this year than last?” from year to year shows a lack of long-term thinking that is impossible at the corporate level. No business runs that way. Rogers and Bell certainly don’t.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I realize that “five year rebuild” has all kinds of connotations, so maybe I picked the wrong words. But regardless of the labels, he has a five-year contract. That is the timeframe he has to work with, not “is this year better than last year.”
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
wait?
are we saying I should hire Burke to build my house, or not?
by JohnerstonRex on Feb 28, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t take what Burke says publically at face value. A lot of what he says is lawlerly double-speak.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Like, Jerry “The King” Lawler double-speak?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I see what happenned there.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
salary cap constricts rebuilds to an extent. tough to rebuild a team that lacks decent prospect assets (which we did, minus Frattin and Gunnar, at the time Burke got here) . Cupboard was empty, team was full of underperforming, at best mediocre players.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Both New Jersey and St.Louis finished out of the playoffs last season and are legitimate threats this season, and the Leafs haven’t finished in 10th yet. Let’s see where they end up before we give this season an autopsy. What’s your suggestion other than allowing the team to continue to develop, blow it all up? Nash may not have been the player to dump assets on this season, but who knows what may available this summer. Would this team not be significantly better with an elite top centre? I don’t think you’re objective in analyzing Burke, it sounds like you’re frustrated at this recent slide.
I agree with PPP
. I’m of the belief that they should have been sellers, unfortunately there wasn’t too much to sell off as teams at the deadline look to add expiring contracts for their playoff push
While I’m glad that Burke didn’t trade away young assets (especially our 1st and Gardiner) in order to scrape into the playoffs, when Dreger says that Grabbo, Kulie and Schenn and MacArthur could all have gone for firsts, that really ticks me off. Sure, don’t trade away them all, but MacArthur? He could have fetched a first? How could you not make that trade? I also seriously doubt Lombardi or Armstrong wouldn’t have fetched a mid-round pick.
By not making those trades, Burke again chose loyalty to his friend over the Leafs’ future. While he didn’t sell the farm to make the playoffs, he also didn’t do the right thing for the team at this moment, which is free up room for free agency this summer. He also could have made room for the kids on the Leafs and made the rest of the season an extended training camp. This also would have ensured a higher pick, possibly a lottery pick.
No, what’s happened here is that Burke has given Wilson one last chance. And once again, Burke’s unwillingness to tank is costing the Leafs a bright future.
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 9:19 AM EST reply actions
The Leafs were too good in the first half of the season to tank at this point, even if they traded away a bunch of players. There are a lot of teams in both conferences that have sucked all year, and aren’t about to stop sucking. Just like it’s almost impossible at this point to catch a team 6 points ahead of you, it’s also pretty hard to suck down to the level of teams that are 6+ points worse than you (that’s an arbitrary number but you get my point)
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
When the Leafs played the Jets and lost it brought the gap +6 for the Leafs now less than 10 games later the gap is +3 for the Jets. That is a big swing is no it’s not impossible.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
that’s just one team over a small sample size though. In any small group of games you’ll find SOME bad team that went on a run. But odds are the Jets will go back to sucking, and the Leafs will go back to being ok. To reliably drop to the bottom of the league, the Leafs would pretty much have to lose most of their games between now and the end of the season. It’d take an epic skid. And given that in the NHL you win probably one game in five just by showing up (even the worst teams win quite a few), the Leafs would have to pretty much get rid of their top two lines and top 2 defencemen to skid down to the appropriate level (for most teams I’d say “top 4” Dmen, but for the leafs the drop off is after 2)
Right. Basically, the Leafs would need to go on an epic skid, except they’re already in the middle of one. It’s improbable (but not impossible) for the Leafs to either extend this skid to the end of the season or begin another one after winning say one or two games. But it’s far more likely, given the parity in this league, that the Leafs will win at least some games, enough that they will not budge meaningfully in the standings.
Also, for the Leafs to fall further, we’d have to count on Montreal, Edmonton, NYI and others to outperform by an equivalent amount. Well the Leafs haven’t won a game in more than a week and they’re still 3 points clear of Buffalo. There’s just not enough time.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Jets made up their gap on the back of an 8-game homestand.
The Jets are playing well at home but are brutal on the road.
The Jets are 2 back of Florida with 4 games more, 1 up on Washington with 3 games more, and 3 up on the Leafs with 3 games more.
I don’t like the Jets chances
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Unless they can win on the road like they do at home then they are toast. Just saying that any prolonged skid by one team coupled with the streak of another can lead to a swing. Pray it doesn’t happen with a week to go like the Blue Jays collapse to the Tigers.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
MacArthur is the Leafs 3rd best forward after Kessel and Grabovski. He’s in the prime of his career. A late 1st rounder would never return to the Leafs the kind of value MacArthur has to us.
If the Leafs need to free up salary space, it should be by getting rid of over-paid guys like Lombardi or Colby, not good players making a fair salary like MacA.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
yeah and if you want to move him because you’ve found a replacement, you do so in the summer.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Not to mention it was a “conditional first”, meaning likely pending a long run by the team that picked him up, or we would only get a late second.
Glad he wasn’t shipped for that price.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
when Dreger says that Grabbo, Kulie and Schenn and MacArthur could all have gone for firsts, that really ticks me off. Sure, don’t trade away them all, but MacArthur? He could have fetched a first? How could you not make that trade?
It’s the Versteeg trade all over again.
Yes a first is a good return on a guy we signed for nothing like MacArthur. But MacArthur has become a tangible contributor to this Leafs team. If you trade him for a first, what are you getting back exactly? A lottery ticket so that you might get somebody as good as MacArthur. I don’t agree or disagree with the Versteeg trade because I do understand that you need your best players to be able to play with each other, which Versteeg couldn’t seem to do and MacArthur has been a great fit with Grabovski.
By not making those trades, Burke again chose loyalty to his friend over the Leafs’ future
.
He chose loyalty to the guys in the room, not to Wilson. Every player in that room now was either drafted, traded or signed to their contract by Burke. This is Burke’s team. He put together a team that he thinks can compete for a playoff spot, and even through the worst two-week stretch of Leafs play since the 0-7-1 start in 2009, the Leafs are within 3 points of a playoff spot. If they don’t reward his loyalty we’ll see major changes in the offseason.
He also could have made room for the kids on the Leafs and made the rest of the season an extended training camp
I don’t get this logic. The goal is obviously that guys like Kadri, Colborne and Frattin mature into future top-six forwards on the Leafs, right? And the Marlies are a legitimate contender, being led by all these kids? So how does bringing them all up to get their teeth kicked in on a team that’s given up benefit them as opposed to having them be the ones carrying the mail on a long CAlder Cup run? Colborne, Kadri, Frattin, Gardiner, Blacker… that’s the future of this team and they’re all going to be heavily involved in the AHL playoffs this season. (McKegg and Percy could join them when their OHL seasons end too). How is this a bad thing?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Feb 28, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
You broke your promise =o(
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
At a client. Don’t have the Anchorman script bookmarked on this computer.
Also, I know he’s driving the Tanking Train, but I think there were some points worth debating in there.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Eh friendly bet, I say you make it thru the whole movie by the draft
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Rec’d for being sensible.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
This is very much a good thing. To name one example, part of the reason the kids are doing well on the sens this year is that they won the calder last year.
To name a better example, Buffalo’s whole team, basically, who were doing great until this year, all played together in Rochester before playing in the NHL. Pominville, Vanek, Roy, Ennis, Adam, Miller, etc
Yeah, Mac’s been a contributor. But he’s not playing to the level he was when he got resigned, and he likely never will again. By the time (if it ever happens) that the Leafs are goign to be making a deep run, is he going to be a key part of the team? If the justification for keeping him is that he plays well with Grabbo, well then
a) is Grabbo going to be a key piece when the Leafs are ready for a run?
b) where’s their chemistry been all season?
I also forgot to mention Lupul. If MacArthur fetches a first, then Lupul would have earned a king’s ransom. Does anyone seriously believe this year is anything but an aberration for Lupul? He goes back down to .6 ppg next year.
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
. But he’s not playing to the level he was when he got resigned, and he likely never will again
Chemmy pointed this out the other day.
The MGK line’s production is down.
MacArthur’s goals per game is basically the same as last year.
Grabovski’s goals per game is basically the same as last year.
Kulemin’s Assists per game is basically the same as last year.
Why is MGK’s scoring down?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
MacArthur is shooting more (both per game and adjusted TOI), and he’s getting some nice shooting% “luck”
Grabovski is actually shooting less (even per adjusted TOI), but for the most part is playing on par.
Kulemin stopped shooting (and getting shit shooting% luck).
Their TOI dropped partially due to Kessel line surgance, and partially due to not getting the job done. I think all 3 are seeing less PP time as well.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
trade Lupul and you’ve totally given up on the team competitng for the playoffs. He’s overperforming, yes, but he’s our second best forward. You trade that now and you’ve thrown up your hands and said “alright guys, you suck too much, let’s tank”
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
We’re not making the playoffs this year anyway, so it’s the sensible thing to do.
Buy low, sell high. Think about it – you get Beauch for free, and you turn him into Gardiner plus a 1st and two prospects or whatever Lupul would have traded for yesterday. How is that not smart?
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
We’re not making the playoffs this year anyway
3 points back, 20 games to go. You seem seem pretty sure!
Stats sites still give us a coinflip to make it.
Long losing streaks make it hard to see the light on the horizon, but we’re not nearly as bad as you’re making it out to be.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
actually, the stats sites say 30% right now
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
It’s a 3 sided coin.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
win a few in a row and its back up to 50% or higher.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
We just need to win. Win win win. I don’t care how they do it. I don’t care if it’s unsustainable goaltending nor unsustainable shooting% or a fluke goal off a stanchion or whatever.
Just fucking win. Win win win win win win win win
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll take anything unsustainable (insert anything good that helps our team here)
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Not if you’re the GM of the team trying to get young guys competitng for the playoffs it isn’t. Yeah, as a fan I’d be okay with us not making it, but you don’t just throw the team under the bus and say we’re not going to do it when you’re 3 points back due to epic suckitude over about 2 weeks. The East is a shit show, you don’t just give up on a team. Evaluate in the summer, see what they can do now.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
I know, right. Fuck it let’s trade everyone, suck for the next 3-4 years and we can eventually be as good as Edmonton.
/looksatstandings
Oh, nevermind
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
you’ve totally given up on the team competing for the playoffs
Haven’t the Leafs already done that?
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Yes. No team has ever made up 1.5 games in 1/4 of a season against competition that can barely keep its head above water.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
MacArthur is a 26 year old entering the prime of his career who is appropriately paid for what he is producing this year. If we contend in 3 years he is still in his prime. Why should we move him?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
..
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I think this summer will be huge. If we miss the playoffs, there’s going to be several guys gone. We’ve got a lot of good young prospects, and depending on how they play in the Calder cup run they could be up on the team next year permanently (especially the KFC guys)
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
But MacArthur has become a tangible contributor to this Leafs team. If you trade him for a first, what are you getting back exactly? A lottery ticket so that you might get somebody as good as MacArthur.
Your whole point is well made, the only possible objection I have to this though is that for as much of a crapshoot 1st round picks are, they’re highly valued by virtually everyone. Burke isn’t going to use those picks if he can help it. If he had compiled two or three of them, suddenly he’s in the position I think he wants to be in — being able to offer a package enticing enough to get a top line guy in return without losing significant prospects or roster players.
A 1st round pick was traded for Paul Gaustad. Your entire argument is dismissed.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Fucking Nashville, people are going to use that horrible trade as precedent for future deals. Godamnit.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
In fairness, the pick is pretty likely to be around 23rd-25th overall, which only has about 50-50 chance to turn out better than Paul Gaustad.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Oh we were here for the Kaberle and Versteeg trades, we’re all pretty aware of the odds
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
for Paul fucking Gaustad. What the fuck, Nashville?
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
His intangibles must be through the fucking roof.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
well his compete/60 is pretty good, but I’m worried about his grit&heart game %
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Buffalo did give up a 4th rounder in the deal to even it out
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, even his tangibles aren’t bad. Highest Corsi QoC among Sabres’ forwards, though his actual Corsi isn’t great, but from 41.0% OZone start to 46.7% OZone finish isn’t bad, and his faceoff percentage (56.8%) is 26th in Faceoff wins despite his limited ice time, and puts him at 16th among all forwards with over 100 faceoffs.
Nashville can’t have a first round exit, but if that ends up being a 25+ first? He’s a good third option behind Fisher and Legwand. I laughed when it first happened, but Nashville needs to be rolling the dice this year anyways.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'd probably have traded Kulemin and MacArthur for 1sts if they were available, open the lineup for Frattin & Kadri.
They wouldn’t have been high firsts, probably 20+, but if we had 3 picks from say, 12 through 30, that’s a good draft. One that clearly would continue to stock the cupboard for down the road, as I don’t see the Leafs becoming serious contendors within the next 2 years as Burke thinks they might.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Either way, I’d love to see MGK respark some magic for the playoff run.
What’s done is done. Let’s focus on making up these 3 points and seeing some games of importance.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
if we’re not contenders in the next few years, you might as well say trade Kessel because that’s all we’ve got him for.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Nah I have faith Burke re-ups Kessel as our franchise sniper. He’ll stay.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
If he wants to stay. And I doubt he will if we still haven’t made the playoffs during his whole 5 year deal. Mind you, i think thats unlikely, but it’s very possible.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I said HE’LL STAY.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I wish had as much confidence as you, ye of such faith.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Just keep the goofy sniper happy, and keep getting better every year. If we’re not making any noise in 2 years I wouldn’t blame him for leaving.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
And the key to keeping Kessel is keeping Bozak.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, not sure I buy this argument. But hey, if the perception works like a placebo, I’m OK with it. Bozak is having a pretty decent year for the money, even if he isn’t cut for the #1 role.
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No one would complain having him on the third line.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
No one would complain having him on the third line.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Do you really expect to get better players than MacArthur and Kulemin from late firsts?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I think i’ve been pretty clear that I don’t know if Kulemin is going to be worth his cost next year.
Late 1sts are a very respectable return to free up cap space and let Kadri/Frattin on the roster.
Whatevs, that’s just my opinion. I know the expected chance that a late 1st will become a decent player down the road.
3 1sts in a draft gives a lot of room to swing. Either way, as I said, it’s a moot point now and let’s hope MGK lights it up the rest of the way.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
You are seriously afraid of a potential cap hit and want to move him just in case?
He is our best defensive winger and has shown that he should be good for at least 15/40.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Heh, I’ve said my piece enough. Until I see him change his on-ice behaviour I’m not going to change my mind
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Eh okay
And MacArthur?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Like him.
I think 1st is a good value for him. I’m pretty happy he’s staying though.
I’ve always been pro-MacArthur. He shoots, his shot is good, not sure about his defensive stats but whatever.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
He’s more or less even with Grabovski, Connolly, and Kulemin in terms of shots against while he’s on the ice. He’s been our 2nd best Corsi player since he arrived (after Grabbo). I might not put him out with 10 seconds to go in a 1 goal game to protect a lead, but he’s very defensively responsible.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
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by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I’d trade Mac for a mid-first. Depends on where it is. If its a team like Detroit (I know they traded theirs away, just using the example), it’s basically a 2nd. In which case, not going to trade one of our top scoring forwards for it.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
If Grabbo was traded for first + prospect and Mac for first, then wouldn’t a team like Avalanche seriously consider an offer for Stastny if the leafs offered 2 first picks – this summer? Sort of the like Kaberle for Liles trade using that 2nd.
Too much if this, then that type of speculation but the leafs – if it makes the playoff is knocked out in the first round. I would like to sell some of the players at high prices and try to get back quality 1C or elite talent.
I guess we can always trade them in the summer if we want to. Stastny could be available then….
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Who knows, but Avalanche (and Blues) have plenty of UFA/RFA to resign and budget constraints and I expect management would want to shed salary. The worst case is that type of player is not available, and the team has a few first round picks and then they can move up in the draft. Failing that, they draft those first which is not a great outcome.
For me I am confused by this retooling. They traded future picks for Kessel. And now are staying pat and not investing in the current team nor bolstering the future.
the reason I think Stastny is available is yeah, Avalanche have UFA/RFAs to re-sign and Stastny is overpaid for what he has produced this year (and perhaps arguably past years). We can take on that salary. Of course, it would cost some real assets.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Because the prices were too high to add to this team right now. In the summer expect more moves.
Its like me last year. I broke the binding on one of my skis when I was out west. I had a choice. Shell out $2000 at the hill in February for the new skis or rent for the last 2 days and buy new skis for $1200 in September at the annual ski show when the prices are much lower
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Why do you want to trade MacArthur? Assuming it is a playoff team that is a pick in the second half of the draft, which means you only have a 60% chance of getting a player who plays 100 NHL (42-72% in the 16-30 picks). First round picks outside of the top 5 are vastly overrated. They are still pretty good in the top 10, but definitely overrated.
MacArthur is a cost controlled, young player who is entering his prime. I would argue he has proven that he can at least be a good second liner, by being able to put up 20-25 goals and 40-50 points. There is no reason to dump him for a lottery ticket. At his age he is the kind of player we should be keeping unless he is part of a package for a stud.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
well the way I see it, if you have two firsts near about the 10 spot, you may be able to trade up spots. Not to top 5, but 6/7/8 perhaps.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Mac’s a UFA in 2013-14. We’re not going for a deep playoff run in 2012-13.
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
It is a guarantee we don’t resign him? He is a good asset to keep on this team. You can’t keep trading away all your veterans like that.
Even Edmonton resigned Hemsky this year.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
but everyone falls off a cliff at 25. It’s pointless having players over 25 right?
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
While he didn’t sell the farm to make the playoffs, he also didn’t do the right thing for the team at this moment, which is free up room for free agency this summer.
Who in free agency do you want? There is almost no one this summer. My lists of wants are two players:
Parise and Suter.
We have the room if they actually make UFA with 10% overage and can deal with it then. Besides those two there isn’t much…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
a goalie will need to be signed too, but it won’t cost too much.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Out of forwards, Penner, Smyth, Jokinen and Doan are all UFAs for this summer. Maybe they’ll all re-sign where they are, but you never know.
Detroits’s gonna have to give Abdelkader a raise; maybe they’ll have to let Stuart go.
Plus, as Goosemonster is saying, a goalie. Hopefully a starter.
Next season of 24/7: "I am named Mikhail. I watch video to fold together strategy. I want outdoors to fight bravely."
by Peter de Chatham on Feb 28, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
You want Penner?!?!?!?!?! HELL NO! Worse than every damn Leaf.
No chance in hell Doan wants to come here.
Smyth is ancient.
Not really interested in Jokinen, but he is a solid player. Pretty damn early though.
All signs point to Stuart either going to San Jose (where he lives in hte summer) or stay in Detroit.
There is one UFA starting goaltender (Nabokov) and a couple who may be (like Harding). Should cost much.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I’m fine with Penner on a one year deal for low $$ and us telling him the day he signs if he’s fat/sucks he goes to the Marlies with no hesitation
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I think a motivated Penner can be a good Penner still
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Unlike the wise sage Michael Farber, I believe the Leafs were more affected by the trade deadline than most teams, with all the media surrounding them constantly. I don’t expect a run of 16-4 over these last 20 games, but I do expect a more consistent effort from all players, starting tonight against Florida.
With no new goalie brought in and a vote of confidence from Burke, Reimer will return to the late season form of last year. Soon time for the song again, People! Believe it!! GO LEAFS GO!!!
by Twisted Sittler on Feb 28, 2012 9:20 AM EST reply actions
Eh, my heart’s been crushed enough by this team that I have little faith. If we finish 8th, we’ll just get spanked. I want it only because I want meaningful hockey in April. Other than that, if we finish 10th I’m fine with that too provided we keep our first round pick. Summer will be a good opportunity to make trades to improve this team (e.g. dumping bad contracts, potential for players like Suter/Parise in UFA, potential players available like Nash, etc.)
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Setbacks for 10 days or 12 days, that can’t be how you guide the ship.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Feb 28, 2012 9:27 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
What would you have done?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Traded MacArthur for something like a 1st and 4th.
Found a new home for Schenn.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Feb 28, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Even Brian Burke thinks Luke Schenn is a 5th/6th defenseman. We’re paying him the almost same money Beauchemin was making. Yay for cap management!
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there are worse cap players than Schenn.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
yes, but Burke wasn’t getting offers of first round picks for them.
Pension Plan Puppets
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I wouldn’t trade Schenn for a 1st round draft pick.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
unless of course its from columbus or something
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I sure hope we trade our 22 year old top 5 draft pick for a low-chance lottery ticket, because defenders never become better as they age.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
top 5 draft pick
you mena our top five draft pick who might be the 8th best defenseman from the first round of the 2008 draft?
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How many defencemen have peaked by 22? Schenn isn’t where he needs to be right now, and I’m not against trading him under the right circumstances, but giving up on a 22 year old with a high pedigree and dumping him for a late 1st is terrible asset management.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I’d also like to file paying $3.6 million for your 5th or 6th defenseman (see: Komisarek, Mike). The Leafs could get comperable performance from someone making $1 million or less.
As for the age argument, there has been little to no work done on the impact of games played/peak as there has been on age/peak, perhaps due to the fact that most players enter the NHL around the same age. However, when you have a player that comes in at 18 vs. someone at 22 or 23, should teams expect those two players to both peak at the same age or at the same level of NHL experience?
Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Myers, Karlsson, Carlson, and perhaps Gardiner are all clearly better players than Schenn and have played either the same amount of NHL hockey or less and are all the same age. They’re all 22 and play significant roles on their respective teams. Luke Schenn does not.
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like to file under terrible asset management.* (sorry for my rubbish typing today)
Pension Plan Puppets
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I was under the impression that Bogosian was still trying to find his game? He was last year in Atlanta, anyways.
"I myself am made up entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
he’s been consistently one of ATl/WPG’s top 3 defenders for 3 straight seasons.
Pension Plan Puppets
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Schenn was one of Toronto’s top 3 defenders for 2/3 season when he signed his deal and got more money than Bogo because Bogo suuuuucked the last 2 years. The difference was Atl would put him out there and tell him “Figure it out”
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll give you Doughty & Myers hands down.
Bogosian and Pietrangelo … I think it’s arguable that they aren’t any farther ahead than Schenn’s body of work to date.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
You wouldn’t trade Schenn for Pietrangelo?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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I would in a heartbeat.
As for the draft, if we drafted Karlsson or Gardiner at #7 (i wont even trade up) we would’ve been laughed at. Both were huge question marks with insane talent.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Probably. But that’s based on long term potential far more than “quality right now”.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Pietrelangelo? I think he is better than Myers in the long run.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
but that wasn’t the comment. It was that all of those guys are better than Schenn right now.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Right now which of these guys do you take Schenn over:
Doughty
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Bogosian
Gardiner
Del Zotto
Tyler Myers.
Forget cap hit, just on skill
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Dought
Pietrangelo
Karlsson
Gardiner
Del Zotto
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
and if you predicted that Karlsson, Gardiner and Del Zotto would be better than Schenn, well you’ve probably predicted the lotto numbers right and are rich beyond your wildest dreams
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I agree 100% with this too. Hindsight is 20/20
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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and Myers, was at best a push, Schenn had better numbers all around, the only thing Myers had, at the time, was size and he skated like a baby deer
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Myers was widely said to be likely to turn out better than some of the defensemen drafted above him, but would not be helping the team anytime soon.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
They said he COULD be better. Myers had high end potential if he figured out how to skate. All of his skills were rated lower than Schenn at the time of the draft but while Schenn was more finished Myers had room to grow in leaps and bounds.
He had high bust potential IIRC
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
It is why drafting is so hard.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Unless you’re the Oilers.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Whether or not we keep Schenn, I think he at the very least presents the cautionary tale against top-10 picks automatically being able to be huge contributors in their first several seasons
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
there are probably 200 better examples of top 5 busts than Luke Schenn
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely. I don’t think he’s necessarily a bust yet, but this idea that just hitting lottery picks means you’ll be a contender in 3-4 years is dumb
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think it presents an example of not to draft a guy early just because he seems closer to being ready. Doesn’t mean they’ll be better in the long run.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
he’s not a bust, he’ll be an NHL defenceman. Lots of first rounders never even get to the NHL.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
duh. I was just answering the question based on now.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
No Myers?
Really? Please explain.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
home town bias
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Tough call, I don’t know enough about him. My impressions are he’s offensively pretty good but defensively sucks. I don’t know, he could be there.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
wait…what?
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Right now which of these guys do you take Schenn over:
I would take ever player listed above over Luke Schenn if I’m a GM.
Pension Plan Puppets
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ah, I miss read it too, damnit
but now, how many of those guys (who were drafted after him) would you have drafted ahead of him?
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
That’s a really tough question to answer without hindsight because I’m not a scout and never got to watch those players before making the NHL (outside of the WJC).
Pension Plan Puppets
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Well most scouts did have Schenn higher than most of the others IIRC so I’ll go by that as I also am not a scout/didn’t see them
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Pietragnelo is miles ahead of him right now too.
Pietrangelo is 12th in teh league in ice time thus far this season for a Dman. Schenn is 120th.
Pietrangelo is 10th in the league in points by a dman. Schenn is 67th.
There is simply no comparison. Pietrangelo is probably in the top 20 D-men this season.
Pietrangelo is 23rd out of 197 Dmen to play 30 GP this year in CorsiRel and 7th in Corsi
(admittedly he is facing middle of the pack competition and 54% zone starts).
I’d kill for him.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
So who wouldja kill?
Let’s narrow the field.
1. Skinny.
2. Chemmy.
Or maybe we should let the PPPublic decide?
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
who would you kill to have Pietrangelo. Quit stalling.
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I’d kill for him.
He’s dancin’ all around this shit.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Schenn is over-payed, you’ll get no argument from me on that front, but he was also paid partly on potential and partly because we bought one of his UFA years (or 2?) and you pay a premium for those years.
His points have increased every year he’s been in the NHL. The scoring chance data last year made him look pretty good. He’s taken a step back for some reason this year, but he’s still got significantly more value to this team going forward than, say, another Biggs would, and he’s shown signs that he can be better than he has been.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Luke becomes the defenceman we expected him to be, but can still be an effective 2nd pairing defenceman.
But god damn does he need to go to Scott Niedermayer Fantasy Camp this summer and learn how to make a breakout pass.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I also think he’s young and learning what works best for him in everything he does…
Rookie year played well but got hurt and didn’t come into camp his 2nd year in shape played poorly. Puts on muscle that summer and comes in and has a good year. Does it again and gets too big and has a bad year.
Also how many dmen dont break out until they are 25 or older?
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
This times a thousand. Luke Schenn is 22. He likely has at least 12 more years in the NHL ahead of him and I don’t think he’s come anywhere close to his peak. And, we have him locked up for 5 years. At worst, I think he’ll be a top-four D. At best, he’s a stud shut down guy. He needs more time to develop, and fortunately for him, this team is still a ways away from being a contender. It’s just disappointing to see him take a step back this year…
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Also how many dmen dont break out until they are 25 or older?
How many good D-men haven’t broken out after 300+ NHL games?
Pension Plan Puppets
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Those who shouldn’t of been in the NHL at 18…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Todd Gill?
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the first name that jumped to my mind. My dad had a nickname for Gill in his first five or six seasons. “Oh Fuck it’s Gill”
by 300 Stitches on Feb 28, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Not quite 300+ games because of injuries but Adam Foote didn’t come into his own until his 5th NHL season IIRC
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Two names since 1995: Kyle McLaren, Rostislav Klesla
Pension Plan Puppets
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McLaren: out of NHL. Klesla: 5th defensman in Phoenix.
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How did you define “breakout”
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Those guys never “broke-out”. You said one issue with the 300 game limit was Schenn entered the NHL at 18 (actually almost 19). I found two guys that entered at the same age and never broke out.
Pension Plan Puppets
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Okay your right I agree, he’s ruined for life and will be out of the NHL in 2 years.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
probably not
But here’s a list of defensemen who played their first year in the NHL at 18 or 19 with at least 50 games and scored less than 20 points from 1985-2009:
L. Richardson
C. Leschyshyn
R. Matvichuk
A. Berg
K. McLaren
D. Quint
C. Phillips
E. Brewer
M. Biron
J. Fischer
R. Regehr
N. Schultz
J. Bouwmeester
L. Schenn
The four biggest names on that list are Brewer, Regehr, Bouwmeester, and Phillips. They all played consistently 20+ minutes a night by age 21 or 22.
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Marty Biron was a defenseman!?! wonder why he switched to goalie..
And those 4 big names might’ve been playing 20+ minutes a night but Schenn would be playing 20+ minutes a night on that Sens team or that Panthers team too.
Eric Brewer had to win playing time with such Stalwarts as Igor Ulanov on Edm.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Mathieu Biron
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/bironma02.html
I believe they were actually related.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Brothers, IIRC.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Playing time on pretty crappy teams =/= successful
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Uh…the Leafs defense isn’t currently shutting teams down, is it?
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
I would be very happy if he ends up being a physical, 25-30 point, reliable 20-22 minute defenseman. He has taken a step back this year, but I hope he rebound to that. Everyone needs #3 and 4 defenseman.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I think he let his contract status affect how he prepared for this season… or he rested on his “breakout” year
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I think he bulked up too much which slowed him down.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I mentioned this above… After bulking up between eyars 2 and 3 and having a “breakout” year he did it again but went too far because he’s still young and hasn’t learned the balance he needs yet.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Weber ruined Schenn
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Schenn trained with Weber this past offseason.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Schenn was in awe of the beast-man that Weber is and was trying to keep up in the weight room. They do on ice training together in hopes of positioning and monster shot can rub off on him.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
considering 3 of those guys were taken before him and one of the others is a gigantic surprise that no one predicted, sure
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
er, two of them are
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
errr, having passed your 3,000 comment cap limit, you are hereby banned from any further discussions of luke schenn.
noooooooooooooo……. luuuuuuuuuukkkkkkeeeeeeeee………
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yep, Gardiner and Karlsson were very talented but super risky picks. Karlsson could’ve easily been Anton Stralman. Gardiner had played all of one season as a defenseman when he was drafted. Up until his senior HS year he was a winger.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with the former and disagree with the latter
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Why do you hate MacArthur so much? Is a 1st and a 4th likely to turn into a 3 million dollar 20-25 goal scorer and 45-50 point player?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I’m fine with him for now, but ideally I’d like a bigger guy putting up points like that in the next few years.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Size is overrated.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
To a certain extent
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yeah it has value
Just is overrated.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
It all depends on the scenario. The leafs could use a bigger body or at least a guy who plays a more physical style in there top 9. So, in this scenario, no we are not overrating it
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Dustin Penner is bigger.
Rick Nash is also bigger.
It’s not specifically size, it’s playing style with that size.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I think that goes without saying.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
yeah, I’m not saying get a big slow guy, but one of our big problems is cycling the puck and getting a solid forecheck on across the lines. I think size would be a useful addition, obviously as long as its size + talent (JVR, etc.)
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
You are convinced Kadri can turn into him? I don’t know if I buy that Kadri can ever be as defensively responsible as him or put up 20 goals or 50 points.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I think Kadri will be that… but not if he stepped into the lineup today
Mac seems to be a player teams want so if Kadri goes on a tear to end the season and in the playoffs for the Marlies we can probably get something good for Mac in the offseason too.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Defensively responsible Clarke MacArthur has played 15 seconds on the penalty kill all season. Full stop.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Last year Pavel Datsyuk played 37 seconds a game on the PK, 7th on his team among forwards. Guess he sucks at defence!
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
MacArthur has better possession and counting stats than Kulemin. Therefore, Kulemin is making MacArthur look good.
by stevesmith19 on Feb 28, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Mac’s position is Kadri’s to take. But Kadri thus far has proven inconsistent at the NHL level. Even Dallas Eakins believed Kadri still had allot to learn before he can be an impact player. Trading away Mac who is one of the Leafs best top six forwards with the idea of replacing him with someone who has proven time and time again not ready doesn’t make sense for a team chasing a playoff spot.
A would have a signature but I am forced to watch this crap.
You don’t have to play on the PK to be considered defensively responsible. He does well defensively at evens. As draglikepull pointed out Datsyuk played 37 seconds last year.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
seems like he accidentaly stepped onto the ice to get that little time.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Seen what was out there, if I didn’t like the deals, ride out the season and try and make some waves in the offseason.
Too late for that?
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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Don’t worry. Most of it is under the water.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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Yep, every time we lose more than 4 games in a row we should just throw everything out the window and abandon ship
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty happy with how the day went yesterday. Would have liked to see some of our overpaid 3rd/4th liners dumped for picks if possible, but all I really wanted Burke to do was stand pat, which he did.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
methinks the talks of Armstrong “generating interest” were BS or the offers were “take back a much worse contract”
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
It’s just not fair.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
yeah personally the only thing I thought would have been good is to get rid of an underperforming overpaid guy to let one of young guys play. But I guess Burke wants the AHL team to go on a good playoff run, and he’ll dump overpaid guys like Komi/Army/Lombardi in the summer.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
So, I don’t know if this has been done, but seeing that Keith Aulie has been updated in the Top 25 Under 25 as traded, where do people see Carter Ashton in this list? I have next to no knowledge of him (he played in the WJC, but we all know how wonderfully informative 2 weeks of hockey is) so have no idea.
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Pretty hard to tell where he’d fit in yet… haven’t seen him play a game with the Marlies.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll make it easy and put him at 10
He has the pedigree and pro experience over McKegg and is only one year older.
And he is 3 years younger and same stats in the AHL as Mueller so I think its safe to say their floors are similar but Ashton has higher upside.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Did Ashton report to the Marlies? I’m assuming yes
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
That’s my assumption as well.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Kyle Cicerella ‏ @KyleTheReporter
Leafs trade day pick ups at Marlies practice today. Carter Ashton will wear 18 while Mark Fraser wears 2 #Marlies #Leafs
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
did the Leafs send Gardiner down so that he can play in the AHL playoffs?
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
yup, just a paper move
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Did they do that with Frattin too? or was him being on the roster the last few weeks before Saturday good enough? I don’t know how clearday rosters work
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I’m sure BB and crew are prepared to have both Frattin and Gardiner ready and available to the Marlies the second the Leafs are eliminated.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I thought I saw that they did whatever was necessary to make him eligible
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
I assume they did, I just wanted to know if they had to waste one of their 4 “callups” on him by demoting him last night/calling him up today like they did with Gardiner.
I’d hate to be stuck with only 2 callups left, because if we are out of the playoffs I’d like Holzer, Kadri and Colborne all to get 3 or 4 games before the AHL playoffs.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
The future of Wilson...
Am I the only one not getting it? It’s clear as mud to me that Wilson was given his walking papers when he received his contract extension. A golden handshake if you will. ‘Thanks. Feel bad you have to leave but it’s your head or mine.’ Quote/unquote BB. The players are not listening to Wilson and Wilson is not behind the bench conducting affairs as though he knows he’s a winning coach who will be here for the long haul. Roll on 2013 and another year of hope.
The players are not listening to Wilson
I don’t necessarily agree or disagree (I don’t know enough about coaching), but you just can’t know this.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
So the contract extension was his ‘walking papers’? How does that make sense? I prefer to think of it as “here, we’ll put a deal together so you can stop thinking about it and coach”.
Also, what nhlcheapshot said about listening to the coach.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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Actually, it makes sense to me. Very few NHL coaches actually have their contract expire; they still draw salaries while they look for their next job. Giving Wilson an “extension” would simply be extending him the same courtesy as his peers.
Also, what nhlcheapshot said about listening to the coach.
O! To join the rush / As the season builds
by Back In Black on Feb 28, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
You’re one of those people who tweet at Brian Burke aren’t you
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Feb 28, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much ya
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Should work nicely with clrkaitken’s Ron Burgundy quotes.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Thoughts on trade deadline, etc.
http://50missioncap.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/the-week-that-was-14-thoughts-deadline-edition/
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 11:20 AM EST reply actions
z
Paul Hendrick ‏ @HennyTweets
Cody franson and colby armstrong look like healthy scratches for the leafs tonight.#leafs
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Likely d pairings then?
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Gunner-Dion
Gardiner- Schenn
Liles- Komi
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t get it. Am I only imaging that Franson doesn’t have as horrible stats as Komi (or Schenn for that matter)? Is this just a case of “oh well, let’s just shake things up; can’t get any worse”?
by gettingcozywithsarkozy on Feb 28, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Is this just a case of "oh well, let’s just shake things up; can’t get any worse"?
Chances are
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I think because Franson has been a bit of a turnover machine lately might be partly the reason.
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
and Komi is a big improvement in that department.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
to be fair, he doesn’t turn it over directly often. he just goes way out of fucking position and screws over his partner, leading to 2 on 1s and other odd-man rushes.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
remember when he passed it straight to that hab player. my god was that brutal
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
who’s saying that, you?
"There's been four different Cup winners the last four years, and I got one of them (Anaheim) and it was a fighting team. We're playing it that way regardless." - B. Burke, Toronto Maple Leafs GM
I thought sarcasm font was not required for my clearly incorrect statement.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
THE KOMISAREK ERA CONTINUES
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Watch for the “goes for a hit, moves out of position, other team scores”. Classic Komi.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
they should play Schenn – Komisarek together just for the laughs.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Yeeeeeaaaaahhh… we’d all be laughing… and crying… and throwing things at the tv…
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
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Friedman’s 30 thoughts: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/02/nash-may-wish-to-broaden-trade-list.html
99% of player salaries are payed out to only 1% of players. #OccupyNHL
I'm a Twitter twat.
CanadianMaple09 is an effective Facebook stalker.
Whoa
24. For all this stuff about how Mikhail Grabovski’s stick company has screwed up his pattern, I heard last week he’s tried 145 different ones this year and can’t find any he likes.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Its a known fact that if you are under-performing all your sticks are wrong.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Wish I’d known this.
/couldabeenacontender
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Almost as redonkulous as wearing the same helmet from peewee all the way to the pros a la Butch Goring.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting
13. Toronto and Philadelphia sniffed around Wild goaltender Josh Harding. Don’t think either team got overly serious and one GM thought Harding was a poor match for the run-and-gun Maple Leafs. “He needs structure to be successful,” the GM said.
Maybe no Harding in the summer after all.
14. A couple of teams thought Steve Ott was destined for Toronto, but it sounds like Dallas changed its mind.
Thank God.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
if Ott wasn;t making 3M I would have LOVED that
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Minnesota always strikes me as a team that helps their goaltender’s SVP (see also: NSH, BOS). Of course, I can’t back this with anything except the shitty goaltending that’s come out of Nashville after a hot year (Ellis, Mason).
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Also look at St Louis this year
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Also a good example. Unless Brian Elliot woke up and decided he didn’t want to be a castoff, and just really really wanted to post a top 10 SVP now.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
.902
.909
.893
.937
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
he’s probably not the best goalie in the league, but he was probably dragged down a lot by the senators being shitty.
by pho king awesome on Feb 28, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Because Howson went to him and said “I’m not going to get anywhere close to what I want for the Leafs so I need more teams to work with”
Dat rebuild
If the offer I saw from the Rangers is legit and Howson didn’t take it he is a lunatic. Reminded me of the deal for Lindros. I can’t see any team offering more in the offseason.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
The package itself was massive – and probably as good as it’s going to get – but Howson seems to want a blue-chip Superstar in the return package. A legit stud.
Too bad the best he’ll probably be able to get is a handful of lottary tickets which MIGHT end up being good.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Howson is an idiot, he wants to trade a 28 year old superstar for a <23 year old superstar. No ones going to do that without requiring a lobotomy. Want Couture + 1st + other prospects for Nash? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing is stopping him from waiting till the summer. He can trade him then, and all those teams will come knocking on his door all over again.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
He’s about to get Yakupov anyway. If he really wanted a young superstar should have packaged Nash with Carter or something. Then you’d get a Top return
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well for starters he shouldnt have traded Carter so low but what are you going to do…probably had no choice. I hope he’s fired after this whole debacle.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I love Nash and it would be amazing if the Leafs could acquire him but Howson has over valued him after giving Carter away
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Forget Nash. Parise is the new hotness. I’m going to get you all on board #Parise2012
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I’m already on board with Parise and Suter. Lord knows we have enough GMs to unleash at various free agents simultaneously July 1st 12:01am
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
My gut tells me both re-sign before July 1. But I clearly have a mancrush on Parise and that financial situation seems more likely to be a problem than Nashville’s. I think.
Although they’re both a pickle.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
I see it differently. If you are in the prime of your earning yrs and you are about to go into an offseason that will set you up for the rest of your life why not wait that last 4 months. If winning cups is your priority you can sign for less money and term with a team that is a perennial contender. Care less about cups and more about location maybe Cali or Florida are places you want to play. If money the only factor then go to the winner of the auction. So many factors to consider.
Also and this may or may not be huge. Suter and Parise are friends. What if they want to pull a Lebron/Wade/Bosh move?
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
if only Parise knew he had so many fanboys/fangirls in Toronto….maybe he would sign to have the Parise Fan Club backing him up.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Oh you know wait until the offseason and see if one of the teams will up their offer after they lose in the 2nd round… There is no reason to NOT hold onto him until you get a potential star in return. At least until August or so…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
I thought he would hold him and I am not that surprised.
What he has failed at doing is dealing with the actual situation. He should definitely not have thrown Nash under the bus the way he has. It was beyond idiotic. I would hope he had a conversation with Nash a couple months ago along the lines of "We will move you and thank you for your time with the franchise. I can’t guarantee you we will move you by the deadline, but I will move you before next season. "
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
That’s exactly it. And trying to play a PR war against your captain is never a good idea.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
To be fair though I think that was a really good offer.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I get that you think they need to get a star out of it.
But they are getting a tonne of good pieces.
1 great d prospect
1 very good forward prospect
1 good forward prospect
A late first
Dubinsky.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I wouldn’t call either Miller or Thomas very good… Also both aren’t close to helping this team.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
You are basically counting on Erixon to become a All star defenseman because none of the other peices are going to be better than 2nd liners realistically.
Add the fact that you just added a defenseman that you thought can be a top pairing guy (I assume he thinks that) and you signed another one this offseason getting no real help upfront is a big fail.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
1st line players are so rare you’re better off keeping one then trading one for Nash.
They’re asking for the impossible.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
They are asking for a lotto ticket than can win a million instead of ones that max out at 1000.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
And they’ll never get it. Especially not from a team on Nash’s list.
It’s outrageous.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
You can’t trade you’re franchises only 1st line player for guys who if everything goes right will help your 2nd line.
Lets put it this way. If we traded Kessel for that package everyone here would kill Burke.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
If Kessel were 28 with 7.8 million? I would be ecstatic.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
In the exact same situation? Kessel wants out, is Nash’s age on that contract? What more could you ask for.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
As the GM and knowing my player is a character guy who won’t sulk and will still play his ass off every night then I keep him.
If this was Semin who wouldn’t skate past centre into his own zone I’d of accepted any offer but for someone with pride and competitve nature like Nash keep him.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
He isn’t getting a better offer. I guess I just don’t see the need to have one higher ceiling/higher risk play. How much worse would it be if they bring someone like that in and he doesn’t pan out?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
He may get a better offer at the draft... hard to tell yet.
He’s definitely gambling as trade deadline is usually when GMs are the craziest, but if he makes it past July 1… I think the packages just get worse.
Nash gets older, teams look at other ways to add high-end players that don’t involve selling the entire franchise for a massive contract.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
No at all. Because 2nd line players are much easier to find than 1st line players. They already have a bunch. Oh no we have Brassard playing 2nd line centre instead of JT Miller how will this team ever survive!
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
You can always use more good prospects especially when the team is as terrible as CBJ
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I wonder if VAN tried to include a package including Hodgson for Nash yesterday.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Okay the Leafs have like 6 or 8 good prospects lets give them all 8 they could use them.
D’Amigo, Nichols, Mueller, Kenny Ryan, Devane, Carrick, and lets even give them McKegg. That is 7 good prospects, why can’t that deal get it done… at least 4 of those guys have 2nd line upside
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Those are all significantly worse than the Rangers offer.
McKegg is probably comparable to Thomas. That is it.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
How is Nichols worse than Thomas?
Similar point totals and Nichols has more size…
Carrick is similar style but worse than JT Miller but both are 2 way centres with decent size.
I was just making a point. Adding lower ceiling’d prospects just so you have more prospects is not the way to go.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
I think you are underselling the NYR package and the quality of the prospects.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Thomas was nearly a goal a game last year in the playoffs.
This year Nicholls has almost caught up to Thomas in offense, but not quite. Thomas has destroyed the OHL in the last 3 years.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Plus its not like the guys with 2nd line upside are guarentees either. Stepan is already a 2nd line guy right now. JT Miller could never play a game in his career. Thomas is even riskier because he needs to take his good but not great talents at the OHL level and translate them to the pro game in a 5-9 165lb body. That my friend is very hard to do.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
I’m not arguing that Howson shouldn’t prefer a blue-chip 1st line stud.
I’m arguing that 29 other teams would be fucking stupid to offer that. It’s a lateral or downward move.
Eventually Howson has to realize he has to make it work with Nash (doesn’t look like that’s going to happen) or take the best package available as soon as possible, as Nash is only getting older and his production is probably headed downward, all else being equal.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Its not going to be Howson’s job in 3 months.
It will be up to the new GM to make things work with Nash or trade him.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Well that’s a bit of a different scenario once Howson isn’t in charge, but you’re still stuck with an unhappy aging superstar.
Aim high, but realize you’re not dealing from a position of crazy strength either.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I think it wouldn’t be that hard to repair a relationship with Nash. He said he still loves Columbus as a city and if you bring in new management I think he’d be easy to sway back around.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
If they can do that it is best case scenario… but things look grim with that relationship.
Leaking the fact that he asked to be traded was a pretty dumb move. They could have played it off as they were “testing the market for a rebuild” and then pretended to take him off the market.
Outting his trade request he’s dealing from a place of weakness…. Heatley trade stylez.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
An issue with the current GM wouldn’t carry over if there is a regime change… at least it shouldn’t Nash doesn’t like Howson but if they bring in someone new from the outside why would Nash be against them? they had nothing to do with the current situation
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Yes, but Nash might hold ownership responsible for not dealing with Howson sooner. “You say you want to win, but then you kept Howson for all this time?”
Then you trade him at the draft…
If you were the new GM coming in wouldn’t you want a shot at repairing the damage yourself and if not being able to make your own deal getting guys YOU want not guys Howson wanted…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
If the ONLY issue is Howson vs. Nash, then yes.
If the underlying issue is that Nash wants to play on a contender/Toronto and doesn’t want to go through another 4-5 year rebuild and end up like Iginla?
Or maybe Nash has an issue with a lot more of CBJ management than just Howson. Gotta think if it was as simple as your franchise superstar vs shitty GM, the shitty GM would have been gone already.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think your expectations are completely insane for Nash’s / CBJ’s situation.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Better Comparable
Mats Sundin in spring 1998
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
2 big problems:
1) There was no salary cap.
2) Sundin was having a good season (33G and 70+ points).
Nash is having a shitty season.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
ONLY 28 goals and 57 points.
On a team of equal crappiness (though the Leafs won more games), with Sundin having scored 20% less points than the previous year, and Sundin being 27. Of course Sundin is better than Nash and the leafs won 15 more games the next season (wow!) but otherwise its a very similiar situation.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
There are some similarities.
But seriously Nash has his lowest GPG and PPG since his 18 year old rookie season (and he has 3 G and 4pts in his last 4 GP so they are both better than the last time I checked). That is saying something. Does that mean he is on the downturn?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
If Kessel wanted out and was 28/29? You've got to be realistic.
Getting 5 picks in the top 60
No one trades young superstars unless there’s a non-hockey related factor.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn’t matter where they get the help. They need it everywhere. They were asking for McDonough/Del Zotto. Those are d-men not forwards.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
That is insanity.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
That is the smart thing to do. Giving Nash away for the other package hurts your team more than it helps. Nash still loves Columbus and won’t sulk or bitch and moan. He’ll still compete hard for you so there is no NEED to move him. He’d like to move but I think he’d understand if he doesn’t
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
It’s smart to demand way more than you’ll get and just insist on it over and over? No. He’s not going to get the deal he “wants” if that’s what he is sticking too. Teams don’t trade young 1st line players for old 1st line players unless they’re idiots.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno. Only way they’re getting a “star” out of this debaucle is if Nash changes his list.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Couture will outproduce Nash this season and likely for the rest of history. Not sure why SJ would pay a 1st and prospects to make that swap.
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If Nash was 5 yrs younger it make sense. Not at his age
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Correct. He’s on the wrong side of his prime. He won’t live up to his contract despite having probably 2 or 3 big years left.
I’m not moving young fantastic assets for him.
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I agree to not moving young established stars like Couture, but I’d still trade guys like Krieder or Kadri as part of deals for him
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
If I was the Rangers? Sure. I’m not moving MDZ or McDonagh though.
Pension Plan Puppets*
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Would you move Dubinsky, Erixon, Kreider and Stepan? If I thought my team was one piece like Nash away from a cup I would. Wouldn’t make sense for Toronto but for NYR it would.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
I wouldn’t move Stepan and Dubinsky. Those are 2 of their top 9 centres.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I thought Stepan was playing wing for them… I thought Anisimov was the 3rd centre behind Richards and Dubinsky
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Stepan’s been centreing Gaborik and Richards has been centreing Callahan. Dubinsky has been on their third line.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Columbus seems content with a defence of Jack Johnson, James Wisniewski, Nikita Nikitin, Marc Methot, Fedor Tyutin and John Moore.
And they kept Lebda and waived Clitsome.
El. Oh. El.
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Grabbo's Agent via Mark Masters:
Mark Masters ‏ @markhmasters Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
Grabovski’s agent, Gary Greenstin, plans on being in Toronto next week; says at that time, ‘I believe that I will have some news for you’
SPECULATION TIME
99% of player salaries are payed out to only 1% of players. #OccupyNHL
I'm a Twitter twat.
CanadianMaple09 is an effective Facebook stalker.
Dreger said yesterday there’d been a breakthrough in negotiations, and Burke said yesterday he expects a deal to get done. Good signs all around.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Internet Champ. I'm on Twitter too! - draglikepull
by Draglikepull on Feb 28, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
You know that 15 minutes at the MCC yesterday by Burke and Nonis (aka the contract negotiator)… I wonder what “team issue we don’t want to comment about” that could’ve been
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Isn’t it Claude Loiselle that handles the contracts for the Leafs?
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
He is there “capologist”
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
err their
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Nonis does the negotiating and Loiselle makes sure they can fit under the cap…
I’m guessing they are both in the room however, but Nonis does the talking and Claude whispers in his ear.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
nhlcheapshot likes this
5×5 baby
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
How I want the roster to look next year:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($4.250m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($7.727m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Zach Parise ($6.400m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.200m) / Clarke MacArthur ($3.250m)
Nazem Kadri ($1.720m) / Joe Colborne ($1.100m) / Carter Ashton ($1.040m)
Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) / David Steckel ($1.100m) / Mike Brown ($0.736m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($1.325m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.116m) / Cody Franson ($2.000m)
/ Korbinian Holzer ($0.700m)
correction
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($4.250m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($7.727m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Zach Parise ($6.400m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.200m) / Clarke MacArthur ($3.250m)
Nazem Kadri ($1.720m) / Joe Colborne ($1.100m) / Carter Ashton ($1.040m)
Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) / David Steckel ($1.100m) / Mike Brown ($0.736m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($1.325m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.116m) / Cody Franson ($2.000m)
/ Korbinian Holzer ($0.700m)
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m) / Josh Harding ($1.300m) / Ben Scrivens ($0.600m)
BUYOUTS: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,240,607; BONUSES: $1,725,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,059,393
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Hahahahaha oh my god Lecavalier what the fuck for?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
To make sure we reach the cap limit.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
so we somehow manage to get rid of Komi, Army, Connolly, and Lombo in the same offseason?
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
For Vinny.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Bury Army
Bury Komi if we can,
Trade Lombo & Connolly for flyers. Im sure someone will do that. Connolly isnt bad at all.
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I look real good.
Hey everone, come see how good I look
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
by clrkaitken on Feb 28, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Figured it was only a matter of time
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
We can’t bury Komi. Also we aren’t going to trade him without trading an actually good player with him
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
No Kulemin eh?
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
WTF Lecavalier?
Parise for $6.4M is a pipedream unless it’s a 10 year contract.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Why is his team carrying 3 goalies?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
And only 12 forwards.
No no, this isn’t right at all.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
You can take Statsny instead of Vinny if you want. What do you think Parise goes for?
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Depending on term – but how do you look him in the eye and say he’s worth less than Brad Richards, or Rick Nash?
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Nash got a “please don’t leave us” contract…
Richards cap hit is only 6 mil-ish
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Only because of the term (takes him to 39)
In real cash he’s making $12M this year.
The last 3 years of Richards’ contract are $1M each. You take those out his cap hit is $9.5M
Parise will either get a 13 year deal (circumvention-stylez) or his cap hit will be $8M+ on a 5-7
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Hey look, Darcy Tucker.
/oldjoke
Anyway, what did you do with Frattin?
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
Whatever you do, don't click this link.
Say no to Vinny
At least at $7.7… I think Vinny will get magic bulleted assuming that is part of the new CBA…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
7.7 is huge. But he’s still a great player.
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
He’s not even close to the player he used to be.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
a 20 year old power forward with 35 poitns in 50 games in the AHL? He’s going to need another year, pretty clearly. Frattin, who is NHL ready, takes his spot.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Frattin is 0.76 PPG in the AHL this year
Asthon is 0.70 PPG in the AHL this year
Frattin is 4 years older
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Not only that, but this is Ashtons first year of elligbility. If you think he’s not going to improve by next year you’re cray
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I would just like to see this line develop together, and be sheltered,
modelling the ducks if you will
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Ashton is also said to be much more polished defensivly
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I’d also put Mueller ahead of Ashton right now. Frattin too. And why the fuck is Bozak on the 4th line? You might as well trade him. He may be performing well because of Kessel but he isn’t some useless offensive player.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
hes a utility player. he plays the PK and even the PP at this point. If you want him on your top line forever, go for it
by Ben Schnell on Feb 28, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I’d also put Mueller ahead of Ashton right now.
Mueller who has 26g and 67 points in 2 years compared to Ashton who has 19G already in his rookie year.
Yes, lets take Mueller. No bias there
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Mueller is outscoring him this year actually (barely)… and it would be just to give Ashton more time.
I don’t necessarily agree but there is reasoning behind it…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Grabbo is crazy
James Mirtle ‏ @mirtle Reply Retweeted Favorite · Open
Mikhail Grabovski, what has more pressure: trade deadline or playoff drive? “For me, more pressure if your wife like say something to you.”
99% of player salaries are payed out to only 1% of players. #OccupyNHL
I'm a Twitter twat.
CanadianMaple09 is an effective Facebook stalker.
by MLS on Feb 28, 2012 12:05 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Oh Grabbo, you so crazy.
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Feb 28, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
For the record, the wife probably said “why were you so terrible last night?”
They are our toughest critics.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
Whatever you do, don't click this link.
hah, not even married either
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not?
I coulda sworn he was… either way I know he’s been with the same girl for a long time and they have at least one kid… Common law at least I assume
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Ya he has 2 kids with his girlfriend
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yep and I’m guessing they are either Common law or close to acheiving that status… Maybe where he’s from Marriage isn’t a big thing?
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
where he’s frommarriage isn’t a big thing for them at this time ?
Not sure what his birth country has to do with anything.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Some countries don’t do “official” marriages often… they find a partner and thats that… I heard there are places where common law marriages are more common than regular marriages.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
In Canada, the only real difference between common law and marriage is a piece of paper for proof and an expensive party.
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
Whatever you do, don't click this link.
And the requirements to qualify, but both types have the same rights.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Common Law spouses are competent and compellable to testify against their spouse in court, married spouses aren’t allowed or compellable.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Not compellable, but competent.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
…although there are certain exceptions (offences of violence against the spouse, or against children basicallly) in which the married spouse is both competent and compellable.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator) CERTIFIED GRABBO LOVER
Twooting on Twitter: @warwalker
Not competent or compellable to testify against your husband or wife in court unless it’s a spousal abuse or child abuse case.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Either that or my Evidence prof is an idiot (unlikely).
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Just fyi jrwendelman is a practicing prosecutor I believe. I might be wrong on that but I know he practices criminal law in Canada actively.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Okay but I just learned this like last week in Evidence, we did an entire class on it.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Well you haven’t done a very good job of analyzing the evidence here…
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
Twitter me this.
Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So, evidence prof vs. Jrwendelman I’m going with Jr.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’m not saying Jrw is wrong, maybe we’re talking about certain different circumstances or something. But my evidence text which was written by a former Supreme Court Judge, and my professor who clerked for a Supreme Court Judge, taught me this. I have no reason to question what I’ve been taught because of what someone says on the internet.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
I have a Bio-Chemistry book written by two authors. They are listed in order on the spine. Their names are Brown and Poon.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Feb 28, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or you misheard your professor, or you don’t understand the question, but at the end of the day you’re arguing with someone who has passed the Bar (or Canadian equivalent) who practices law full time and is trying to help you out by correcting your mistake.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I’m not arguing with him, you’re arguing with me.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
jr corrected you. You then attempted to correct him when I pointed out that he is a practicing lawyer and you’re a student.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
He corrected me and I stated that, from what I’ve learned, I am correct. That’s not an argument, that’s two people stating what they know. You decided to start arguing with me for no apparent reason other than that you’re annoyed at me due to the discussion about hitting.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
You’re kidding right?
There aren’t two sets of truth here. There’s one correct definition. One, or both, of you is necessarily wrong given the lack of agreement.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
More like he was tipping you off you’d brought a butter knife to a gun fight
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
“No way Mike Tyson, that’s not how you throw a good punch.” – Shield
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
“Hey Shakespeare, that’s not how you write a play”
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
"Hey Mario Andretti, that’s not how you drive a car."
- unless the person saying this is Jason Statham
/not at all serious
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a close one. Mario’s resume is pretty damn impressive, too.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
F1 > Indy. Not even close
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
WRC
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Mario Andretti is a Formula 1 world champion.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Albeit only once..
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Michael’s 7 world championships really should give him the edge, but Mario’s racing career is fucking nutso impressive.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
7 in a row… and most years werent even close… I swear he fell asleep at the wheel in half his races and still won
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
5 in a row, but pretty much.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Schumacher is a piece of shit driver tho. He cost his own teammate a world title
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yeah I’d look for anything to give another driver the edge over Schu, not a fan. No doubting his talent though.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Growing up most racing fans in my family disliked me because I cheered against him and cheering against ferrari is a sin
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Yeah I can see that being a problem. The guy is a complete asshat though from all indications.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Damnit I can’t think of any good Italian jokes… wheres Skinny when you need him
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Or how about your dont make them and shut up. YOu dont have to make them all the fuckin time.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I actually liked Eddie Irvine
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
That was fucking wild.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
http://scc.lexum.org/en/1996/1996scr3-1043/1996scr3-1043.html
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Someone else here has Evidence this semester, I see….
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
Ooo me too, but I think I’m learning something different than either of you 2 (FRE vs. whatever Canada calls it)
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
From Puck Daddy, about Hodgeson
is that they shed a player who, in his current role, was immediately replaced and improved upon by Pahlsson
What in the fuck is Lambert talking about here?
Vancouver now has two lines that can score, where before they had three. They have one awesome power play unit, but no good centre for the second one.
Finally, this isn’t 2007. Pahlsson is a depth guy now, not the super checker he once was. The Nucks have Lapierre and Malhotra who are both better as grinding centres.
Not that I don’t like the Nucks picking up Pahlsson. But it’s just complete nonsense to say that Pahlson made Hodgeson expendable.
Hodgson was expendable because his development wasn’t gonna take a step forward in Vancouver. The Sedins are signed through to 2014 and likely not going anywhere. Kesler is signed until 2016. Hodgson would never get his shot there.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Thats a fair enough argument (though I disagree with it). I just couldn’t believe that sentence about Sami Pahlsonn > Cody Hodgeson. It’s just so silly.
I agree with you, their 3rd line got a lot worse in that trade, not better
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
AV just didn’t like something about Hodgson. From here it feels like Kadri-Wilson
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Only difference being that Kadri isn’t a Calder candidate in his 1st year in the league…
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Kadri also hasn’t had a full season of highly sheltered minutes…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Kadri is younger and hasn’t had a chance like Hodgson was getting now. I meant last yr when Hodgson was brought up and send down a couple times and rode the bench at other times. AV was very quick to pull the leash on him./
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not used to people doing that around here
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the Canucks got really far last year in part because of their depth of scoring. Now that they’ve neutered their third line, the matchups against the Sedins and Kesler are only going to get harder. And Kassian is not going to make a difference there, not unless they play him on the top two lines. Which would be silly considering he couldn’t crack the lineup of a crappy Buffalo team
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
How have htey neutered the third line?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
By replacing Hodgson with Pahlsson, who can’t score even on the best of days
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Hodgson had 1 pt in 12 GP in the playoffs last year. So in regards to their depth of scoring form last year, it has likely stayed the same or improved…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
You really think Pahlsson is an offensive upgrade on Hodgson?
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
You’re using his playoff stats where he played 6 min a night on the 4th line, as a 20 year old in the playoffs??
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
You are missing my point. I am saying that I don’t see how they hurt this “scoring third line from last year”.
Yeah, the Canucks got really far last year in part because of their depth of scoring. Now that they’ve neutered their third line
What third liner that gave them depth scoring in last years playoffs is gone?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
To be clear
Hodgson is providing them with great depth scoring this year and could likely do it in the playoffs. He just wasn’t doing it last year, so they haven’t taken away something they had last year by trading him.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
From last year? No one. However, if Kesler gets hurt again, like he did last year who will step in? Pahlsson? Maholtra?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I agree with you fully. Was just responding to his specific comment which was incorrectly analyzing last years team.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Fine. Hodgson wasn’t a key factor last year. But he was an important one this year. And it’s this year’s Canucks that are playing, not last year’s.
Bottom line, when you take away someone who scored 16 goals and replace him with someone who’s scored 2, that player can only make up the difference if he prevents that many goals. That is what the Canucks are banking on.
Professional cusser causer.
by T is for Truculence on Feb 28, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Pahlsson is 34 and a long way from being the guy who played on the nothing line in Anaheim.
Canucks fans saying they moved Hodgson to bring in Kassian (ok) Gragnani (sucks hard) and Pahlsson reeks of self delusion.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Thats the point I was trying to make.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Chris Johnston ‏ @reporterchris
Kevin Dineen says Kris Versteeg has a lower-body injury and will sit out this week.
I dont have to see that idiot chewing on his mouth guard tonite. Win
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Toronto born Stephen Weiss should play tonight.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
Mike Weaver’s from Brampton. That’s pretty close..
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Scott Howson apparently wanted all of the tea in China
Sather ultimately resisted by rejecting Howson’s laughable demand the package include Dubinsky — plus either Ryan McDonagh or Michael Del Zotto — plus either Derek Stepan or Carl Hagelin — plus 2009 first-rounder Chris Kreider — plus a 2012 first-round selection.
Dubinsky, McDonagh, Stepan, Kreider and a 1st. Just insane.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
He had all the leverage…
There was no rush to make a deal and there is a good chance he can get a better deal than the Dubinsky, Erixon, Miller, Thomas one…
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
The offer sheet compensation for 7.84M salary (nash is 7.8M and not an RFA of course) is four first-round picks. Not sure what Howson expects.
Its almost like Howson was trying to use his only big ticket to rebuild the franchise!
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
I agree with Howson asking for the moon for Rick Nash.
I disagree with every other facet of how he’s handled this whole mess.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Howson… good at the GM’ing part of it… bad at PR/etc
First time its been that order its usually flipped
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Uh, what? Howson good at the GM’ing part of it? He’s been awful. The man traded for Jack Johnson.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
By not caving and accepting anything less than a star for Nash…
He didn’t get the price he wanted and knew the same sort of offer would be around in the summer but so might a better one so he waited. It was the right move to make
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
His demands are well out of proportion with Nash’s value. He’s off his rocker if he thinks anyone is willing to gut their team for a man with that contract. If Howson wanted Malkin, Staal, and a first, and of course didn’t get it, he’s not a good GM because he didn’t take the next best package. It’s his job to find an acceptable middle ground. “Gut your team” isn’t negotiating.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Howson holding out for a star “seems” like the “right thing” until you realize anyone who has a star isn’t trading him for an aging $8M star. It’s a downward move.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
2 Solid young roster players + 3 1sts essentially
Dubinsky (60th overall), McDonagh (11th overall), Stepan (51st overall), Kreider (19th overall), Rangers 1 2012 (probably 25+)
All in the first two rounds.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Spitballing here – but perhaps Howson made the price unrealistically high so his last move in a terrible tenure as GM wouldn’t be trading away the former #1 pick, Captain, and face of the franchise.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
In regards to the Kassian/Hodgson trade
Obviously Hodgson is the better player, I am not trying to argue that. I just don’t think it was as big a rip off as a lot of people are making it out to be.
In Kassian’s rookie year in the professionals (20 years old to start, turned 21 in January)
He has in the NHL
3 G 7 pts in 27 GP
0.11 GPG and 0.26 PPG
11:56 TOI/GP
In the AHL he has
15 G 26 PTS in 30 GP
0.5 GPG 0.867 PPG
Hodgson in his rookie professional year (20 to start, turned 21 in February)
1 G 2 pts in 8 regular season GP or 1 G 3 pts in 20 regular season + playoff GP
0.125 GPG and 0.25 PPG in the regular season
0.05 GPG and 0.15 PPG in the whole season
7:45 TOI/GP regular season and 6:46 in playoffs (not much)
In the AHL
17 G 30 pts in 52 GP
0.33 GPG and 0.58 PPG
Obviously this year at 21 (turned 22 in February) he is having a wonderful year
16 G 33 pts in 63 GP
0.25 GPG and 0.52 PPG
Only 12:44 TOI/GP
So what does that say? It says to me that Kassian has produced better than Hodgson in their 20 year old rookie seasons. He was significantly better in the AHL and slightly better in the NHL (though with more TOI/GP so it probably balances out). Obviously, this year Hodgson has taken another step forward and is having a great year. He doesn’t have that much TOI and has produced a 20/40 pace (to be fair he has 5 G and 10 pts on the PP where he has played on the second pp 1:50/GP, so he may be buoyed some by their lethal PP). As they say, production in the NHL is all that matters, so Kassian’s being better in the AHL last year isn’t that important and Hodgson’s play this year is. I think it just shows that they aren’t that far apart.
Add in Gragnani who is (Ubiquitous can confirm) a solid D prospect (great offensive instincts, raw defensive) and I think I understand the thought process of the trade.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
You do know that Hodgson had some back issues that he was still recovering from right?
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
To be honest I had forgotten.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Its amazing what the boxcar stats dont tell you.
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Zach Kassian is a meat head.
Cody Hodgson is a talented hockey player.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
You can call him a meat head all you want, but he has produced as well as Kadri thus far.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Just trying to provide a comparison we know. That meat head has produced as well as our “talented hockey player” prospect.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Zach Kassian is a talented meat head and the Canucks are hoping the Sabres fixed the meat head part. (His arrival at training camp was delayed because he’d been charged with assault and couldn’t leave Canada.)
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
they didnt
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah but the Canucks don’t know that /smugface.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
It’s okay. Everyone already hates them so this helps their image even more.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I’m slightly relieved that Kassian won’t be smashing Phil Kessel’s skull for the next few years.
I’m slightly upset that instead we’ll now have a talented young C in the division for the next few years.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Kassian has to catch Kessel first
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Timing still seems weird with VAN headed to the playoffs and BUF not.
This is also a case of a guy who has a bit more “proven” stuff in the NHL compared to a guy who has potential based on AHL.
I think we’ve all seen that AHL success doesn’t necessarily translate to NHL success in a predictable fashion.
Everyone seems to be pretty bipolar about the situation as Friedman suggested in his 30 thoughts.
I think it’s a dumbass trade by VAN. I get why they did it (not the timing) because Hodgson won’t be knocking out Henrik or Kesler out of the top 2 C spots, but you had to think they could have gotten something better in the offseason if they offered him around the league.
McKenzie or Dreger said yesterday that one Eastern GM (not named) was pissed that he didn’t hear that Hodgson was available. Remind anyone else of Phaneuf trade?
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was a silly trade too (and I think having the best C’s you can is important Crosby/Malkin/Staal anyone?).
I am just trying to say that I don’t think it was as bad as a lot are saying.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
meh, everyone is going to have an opinion. Even realizing the stats and Gragnani, I still think it was a bad move.
Guess time will tell, a la all trades with young players
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
The rabble demanded Darcy trade a winger for a center, so that’s what Darcy did. And he got a pretty good deal out of it because at least in his mind Marcus Foligno can do everything Zach Kassian is currently doing.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
You should be standing and fuckin applauding Darcy for this trade
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
I'll just try to be clear here
I do think it was a great trade for the Sabres and you guys should be happy (the first too was incredible). I just think Kassian deserves a tad more credit than he is getting.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Gaustad for a 1st was a pretty decent move too.
Buffalo won deadline day.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
decent? that was theft. If Gaustad is a 1st, Grabbo is 3 1sts, and all your good prospects.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Nash wanted to help CBJ rebuild. What a selfish guy.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=389057
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 1:23 PM EST reply actions
He still can. Although Howson outing him that he demanded a trade probably worked against him.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
He’s going to be gone in the summer, i’m sure he wants nothing to do with them now.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Did you read the article?
When management said they’d do a rebuild, I felt I could be a huge part of the rebuilding by bringing them assets
He wanted to “help the rebuild” by bringing all the 1sts/prospects through a trade.
Of course if he REALLY wanted to help the rebuild, and that was his ONLY motivation, he wouldn’t have had a shortlist of teams…. of course I don’t blame him for that.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Hehehehe. It has become a media war. Howson has butchered the shit out of this situation
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Let’s look at this war:
NASH: decade-long franchise player who has stood by the Blue Jackets, often without a supporting cast, and hasn’t complained once.
HOWSON: incompetent GM who has badly mangled the team into disarray.
Yeah, Howson is so fucked.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Sure but then why can’t he both help CLB rebuild and at the same time move him and his family to a team/city that works for him. Win/Win.
Which quite possibly is the case. The whole thing is going to just spiral worse and worse from here.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Which is fine, since both Howson and Nash will be out of the Jackets organization by June.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Can the Blue Jackets survive it? Do they have a strong enough fan base to both lose their franchise player and deal with a controversy?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Yes, they just got a lot of money committed to them so they’ll be fine.
Even better if they somehow join the east
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Frankly a CBJ-for-Winnipeg straight-up swap would work out, if only because, even if not totally geographically accurate, the Jackets would do well to play in such a shitty division.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Plus it would make the east even more terrible!
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
I, for one, welcome the opportunity to play Columbus four times a year.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
At the Nash fiasco on top of the Parise/Suter sweepstakes and this draft has the potential to be very entertaining.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
*Add not at
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
The polite way of saying “I want to win a cup”
Follow @AlsoNamedPhil
Whatever you do, don't click this link.
no, its the polite way of saying “get me the fuck out of here, im tired of this shit”
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
OT: Why don’t the nucks or kings move Schneider/Bernier?
Is the new NHL a team with two competent goalies like Boston.
The nucks simply didn’t need to. They have built a competitive team without having to give up Schneider. Eventually Schneider will push for the opportunity to be a starter, but for now they don’t have to move him.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Seems like it is more of an offseason move and an insurance policy for the playoffs.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Team level goaltending is what matters. You can do it like LA (54 GP: .932, 12 GP: .903, total: .927) or like Boston (41 GP: .928, 22 GP: .929, total: .928), but whatever you do, don’t end up with 0.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Bernier hasn’t been that great, I don’t get why they don’t trade him while his value is still (seemingly) so high. Schneider I think the Nucks will move him at the draft and their return will depend on what they appear to need after what happens to them in the playoffs this year.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
USA Hockey & Hockey Canada considering banning fighting in junior leagues.
Yay it’s the fighting fight again!
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
Good thing for Rad Boss that he’s finishing up juniors
Uh oh for David Broll
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
(posts inflammatory link and runs away)
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
um….you guys know the article was about fighting right?
kidding, it was a good read to come back to.
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It can only be good for the game: get rid of fucking plugs and raise the talent level.
USA hockey moved hitting back two years to emphasize skilled hockey and not goon violence.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
what age does hitting start in USA now?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Used to be at Pee-wee (U12) but now it’s Bantam (U14), so 13 year olds for the most part.
At Pee-wee now they want body contact; ie. checking along the boards for puck possession but will be whistling hits designed “solely to injure or intimidate”. If you hit somebody in U12 it needs to be on the boards and you better: separate your man from the puck and be in position to take the puck.
It’s the right move. Youth hockey participation plummets when hitting starts because kids are afraid of getting hit.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
That and because they discover girls at that age.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Youth hockey participation plummets when hitting starts because kids’ parents are afraid of their kids getting hit.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
No, kids are afraid of getting hit. Kids are worried that when they move up a level some kid almost two years older than them who has six inches and eighty pounds on them will run them over and they’ll die.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
Why are they playing guys 2 years older than them? I think THAT is the biggest issue.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
I also find that weird. I have a friend who moved to Washington state at 12 years old and lived there for 4 years. He was playing two years up. That never seems to happen here unless you’re Wayne Gretzky, as when he returned he was back playing AA on my team with kids his own age.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Yes, Ontario AA is likely much better than Washington State travel hockey.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
I don’t know if this is sarcasm or not.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Doubt it. Ontario AA is probably much better than a Washington State travel team
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
Twitter me this.
Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
“Almost”. Late birthdays / early birthdays.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
almost two years older
A December born 11 year old plays in the same league as a January born 12 year old.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
That can be quite scary.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I remember it, I loved it because I was insane, but lots of kids were terrified
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Why am I not surprised?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
when i was 10 be and my friend used to strap on roller blades and full gear in his empty basement and practice body checking for hours on end
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
as a result of this, I knew what it was like to get hit, I knew how to take a fall and I knew how to land and avoid taking a stick or elbow to the face, I was so far ahead of kids when we did start hitting I was destroying people twice my size, so you can imagine how the kids my size or smaller felt
three kids on my team quit hockey that year, not saying it was because of me, but it was definitely because of hitting
two of those kids were among our best players
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I never remember being afraid of being hit or hearing anyone say they were afraid of being hit when I was a kid. I do remember a lot of kids complaining about how in Oakville they had hitting in houseleague but in Burlington they didn’t.
Why would you move a kid up a level if he’s that much smaller?
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Because you get older and have to move up.
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So that could easily be seen as an argument for starting hitting younger, so kids can learn to hit when they’re all small and won’t be afraid of it when they’re older as they’ve been playing with it their whole lives.
I get the reasons for starting it later, but I don’t buy that kids are afraid to get hit. Kids in general are pretty reckless and I don’t see why they would be scared to play hockey.
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Do you coach pre-checking kids hockey?
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Learning how to hit. The easiest solution is to have a hitting level and a non-hitting level and the small kids or these kids you’re talking about who are afraid of hitting can play in the non-hitting level.
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And any kid choosing to be htere will be made fun of.
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They don’t choose, you put the good/bigger kids in the hitting level and the smaller kids or kids who are still learning in the non-hitting level. When I played houseleague growing up they always had a “red division” and a “white division” that basically did the same thing (one was more competitive, for better players) except neither had hitting.
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What if one of hte bigger kids doesn’t want to be in hitting because he is scared (as we are discussing).
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If he’s big and also skilled I don’t see why any kid would be scared of hitting. I imagine it’s generally the smaller kids or the ones who aren’t as great skaters who have this issue.
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If he’s big and also skilled I don’t see why any kid would be scared of hitting.
Not every kid thinks the exact same?
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But why would he be scared of hitting if nobody is able to hit him? You don’t just develop a fear of hitting if you’ve never been hit hard or hurt from a hit.
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That’s not true. I know guys that have seen their buddies hurt and it affects them just as much as if they had broken a shoulder or whatever.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
That’s true, but if you see your smaller, less skilled buddy get hit and hurt and you’re bigger and better you would probably think “he got hurt because he’s not that good/big”, not “OMG I’m going to get hurt now too”
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No that’s true but when you get to a high enough level/age, skill > size. The fear of being hit is developed when you’re getting started with contact (8 years old I think is the first year of contact in Toronto leagues- GTHL/OMHA A, AA and AAA only though) and you might keep getting trucked and develop that fear. At that age obviously shorter kids are going to have problems but once you get to ages 14-17, there are lots of short kids who have muscle and can put a strong hit on a guy with 4 inches/20 lbs on him. It’s all about the technique, I absolutely hated when guys would just put their hands or elbows or even sticks in my face.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
The one effect I’ve seen in kids who are bigearly in life is that they’ve had it drilled into them from an early age by parents, teachers, parents of other kids, etc
“be careful of so-and-so, you don’t want to hurt him”
That holds kids back in lacrosse because the years of indoctrination are hard to overcome.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Watch hockey on tv? Hitting looks scary.
Dude you can be afraid of things you have never experienced. I have a big fear of heights. I have never fallen from a large height…still not a fan of balconies..
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I dunno, when I was a kid and watching hockey on TV I thought it looked awesome and wanted to do it.
I also have a huge fear of heights, I HATE balconies, towers, edges of cliffs. I get vertigo.
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I think you are having trouble understanding that others think differently than you. Some kids (like you probably) saw hitting and thought “cool I want to do that”. Others thought “AHHHH!”
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I can't tell if you are even being serious anymore
Some kids don’t want to get hit…at all. Do you get that?
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Okay so then they obviously shouldn’t be playing hockey if there’s no non-hitting option where they live. They can play basketball or baseball or soccer or any other great sport that’s available.
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Maybe their should be non-hitting options…
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I wasn’t allowed to shoulder tackle until i was 12 in soccer and this annoyed me.. but that was because i played midfield so i was the one doing the tackling and not the one receiving.
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what a horrible way to hamstring the growth of the best sport in the world
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
The best sport in the world involves hitting.
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no wonder they allow full body contact in mens pick up and beer leagues then
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
since when? we were talking about minor hockey
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, and a lot of these kids play minor hockey because they eventually want to play professional hockey. That isn’t going to happen if they are playing in a league without hitting and kids in a neighbouring state/county/city are learning to hit.
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Are you actually serious?
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One of the first things I told my parents was “If you’re here because you think your kid will play in the NHL, or get a college scholarship you’re in the wrong place. We’re here to have fun, none of us are going to make it big.”
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Yeah, and a lot of these kids play minor hockey because they eventually want to play professional hockey
Like 1 out of 10,000 kids that plays minor hockey plays professionally.
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Yes, but 1 out of 2 or 3 kids who plays minor hockey wants to play professionally.
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And 99% of them probably realize they won’t sometime before they turn 10
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Before 10? Really? Maybe before 12 or 13 but 10 year olds are still little kids.
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1 in 3 kids want to be a t-rex when they grow up.
Stick with it Jimmy, you’ll grow fifty more feet and get scales if you practice hard and they let you eat raw cows.
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At one point my son proudly announced he wanted to be a firetruck.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
When my uncle was little he apparently would say he wanted to be a garbage man, because then when people threw hockey sticks in the garbage he could take them.
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There have been about 2,000 NHLers from Ontario since the dawn of the NHL.
I’m guessing there have been more than 20m hockey players in Ontario in the past 100 years.
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Not to mention if your kid is 10 and hasn’t made at least one rep team he’s doubtful to go very far… At least in Ontario… If only 5% of all AAA kids go to the OHL its unlikely to go from houseleague to top 5% of all kids at the highest level of hockey in 6 years..
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No don’t you see?
The reason that kid didn’t make it to the OHL isn’t because he just isn’t good enough to play at a higher level.
It’s because he only learned how to hit when he was 10! If only he’d come out of the womb learning how to dodge a hipcheck!
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There are a lot of kids who are late-bloomers or whatever and play houseleague until they’re 10 or 11 and are in AAA a few years later, at least I knew and know a lot of kids where this was the case… the opposite was also true, a lot of it has to do with size.
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To put this into perspective
Mike Milbury was a big proponent of raising the checking age in America.
I’ll give you a moment to let that sink in.
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If kids are going to hit and WANT to play in a hitting league, they should be learning at a younger age. But if a kid has no interest in it, why should he be forced to?
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Be forced to what? Not womp on smaller kids? Oh no, why are we being so unfair to that poor child.
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Huh? I’m saying if kids don’t want to play contact hockey, they shouldn’t be forced to…
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I know what you’re getting at, but given that I oppose everything Mike Milbury even remotely likes, I now dislike the idea.
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what?
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
It does not have to.
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You would be fine with removing hitting from the NHL?
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could you scratch my back while you are reaching so far for an argument?
holy shit what the hell does the NHL have to do with kids who are 10 years old?
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Do you know what % of players actually make it to professional hockey? Very, very small…
Why should we be forcing kids out of the game because they don’t want to hit, when instead we could just let them play in a non-contact league. So much easier and definitely a lot safer..
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Chewbacca is a wookie.
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by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think the issue is not having “no hitting leagues” for players who don’t want to hit instead of preventing people who do want to hit from hitting.
I know in KW if you didn’t want to hit you could play houseleague. If you wanted to hit and you were good enough you would play rep. If you wanted to hit but weren’t good enough you were stuck with no hitting because if you weren’t good enough you had no business gooning people.
I know quite a few players who dropped down to houseleague around 13 or 14 because they were too small and didn’t want to get rocked anymore.
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But what about kids who are good enough to play rep but don’t want to because they don’t want to practice 5 times a week and drive an hour to a game?
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then they made their choice
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
I’m only playing peewee hockey because I want to be a professional hockey player, but I don’t want to practice 5 times a week and drive an hour to a game, even though that’s what I would have to do to be a professional hockey player.
An argument no one has ever made with a straight face
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you want to play hard and work your ass off on a travel team because you have asperations of being in the NHL one day? then you play rep
you want to play hockey for fun? you play for fun. Kids who don’t want to hit shouldnt have to worry about kids who enjoy hurting other kids
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but there are also kids who want to play hockey and have fun and think having fun involves playing hockey that has hitting.
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and if they want that, they can wait a couple years and work on their hockey skills
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I just don’t understand why kids being forced to play hockey with hitting at 8 years old is so much worse than kids being forced to play hockey with hitting at 12 years old, when they are a lot bigger and much more capable of hurting each other.
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The point is they shouldn’t be forced??? I know you’re in law school but are you retarded?
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Because running a minor hockey assocation costs money, and to make that money you need kids to pay to register and play.
And if they don’t pay because they don’t want to learn how to hit, then the sport itself is fucked.
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If they don’t want to put in that time they’re not going pro. You work your ass off and give up everything to play hockey if you want to do it for life.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Even if you put in the time you’re not going pro. Anybody who thinks their 10 year old is going pro someday is an asshole.
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Yeah I played with a few kids like that, who were uber talented at such a young age and their dads were pushing them, wanting them to go pro. Funnily enough, they’re well on their way and have pretty successful hockey careers thus far.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
But a 10 year old kid who thinks he is going to go pro isn’t an asshole, that’s like 1 of 3 kids in Canada, what’s the big deal?
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If the kid legitimately wants to put in the time then let him, but it’s not fair for parents to be pushing their kids like that. It usually has a reverse effect on kids, but they stick with hockey at a very high level to appease their asshole of a dad
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
1 out of 3 kids goes pro or 1 out of 3 kids think they’re going pro?
If it’s the first, guffaw.
If it’s the second, one out of three kids in Canada are assholes.
Also: delusional.
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1 out of 3 10 year olds are delusional? check.
They’re 10, of course they’re delusional…
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
You don’t think 10 year old kids all over the place dream of playing in the NHL, or that if they do they are an asshole? You’re delusional if that’s the case.
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I think that 99% of the 10-year olds who think they are going to the NHL at age 10 realize they aren’t when the 10 year old who actually might go to the NHL is skating circles around them
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This happens in literally every sport. I skied competitively for years and a guy who tore up the competition in our league made it to the Olympic team in exactly one event (out of about 6) and finished something like 46th. And this was a guy who was head and shoulders above anyone else I raced against at ages 14-16.
It’s an issue of scale. You may be the best in your small bubble, but when that happens, the scale widens, and you see how you stack up against the best of the best. Some 10 year old kid may be tearing up a small/medium minor hockey system, but will he do that provincially? Regionally? Nationally? Internationally? That’s where you determine just how delusional it is.
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by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
The best player my age in my city playing minor hockey has basically spent four years being a tweener in Tampa Bay and Buffalo’s systems.
He blew the Junior B scoring record out of the water as an 18 year old before going to NCAA
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Best player in Waterloo my age played 3 years of OHL and he made it the furthest of any player on the AAA team unless you count my buddy playing division 3 hockey in the states (although he was recruited by division 1 he wasn’t smart enough for a 4 yr college)
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However 2 years younger than me in Waterloo that team sent 5 players to the OHL 3 have been among the top 25 in OHL scoring in one of the last 2 years and one of them was a 3rd round pick of Nashville and is in the AHL this year.
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It’s kind of cool seeing guys you used to play with making it big. One of my AA teammates from Peewee is playing OHL and is ranked a 1st round prospect in this years draft. Another just signed with the Majors last week and is now playing there. A third is playing prep school at South Kent and has a few D1 offers. A year and two years older than me, who I played elementary school hockey against and family friends with, the older brother is playing at Michigan this year (Panthers 5th rounder in 2010) and the younger one is committed to Michigan for next year.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Never played high enough to be classed as teammates of these guys, but I went to high school with Jimmie Foxx (LA), Rich and Ron Sutter and the Moller brothers as well.
It IS pretty cool.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
They turn in to Lee Stempniak’s brother. “I had the chops to make it in the NHL, I just partied too hard.”
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by Bower Power on Feb 28, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, it sounds to a large degree like this is a problem of scale.
With a smaller number of players in any particular age group in a US city or area, the great players and the big players are going to be on the ice competing against smaller and less talented players – so that there are enough teams to run any sort of league. This leads to small kids getting pounded, because the big kids that are playing at that age can skate well enough to get to where they can hit them.
Large numbers of players in a Canadian city lead to the ability to support all three ofthe following:
- a complete “no hit” rec league with multiple age brackets (generally 2 years wide)
- a multi-tiered house league which has hitting. In my son’s bantam age bracket there are 10 divisions of 8 to 12 teams per division.
- a two or three tiered rep league (AAA, AA, A).
House league teams travel to out-of-town tournaments (we’ll do 2 this year, the year we won the city championships we did 4) while their league play is all within the city and play exactly the same rules as the rep teams, they just a far more balanced in skill level. This TENDS to also balance the kids out size-wise. It’s not evaluated that way, it just tends to follow.
I can see there being a problem in a US city trying to grow the sport where they don’t have enough kids to proved enough different stratas to shield small kids from their bigger more talented bretheren. Not sure that taking hitting out of house league solves the numbers game… but I can see the parellel to what we have up here given the larger numbers and more options available.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck you GTA and you’re large population…
in MOST Canadian cities of ~100,000 people I would assume its like Waterloo and is 4 rep tiers of hitting and one houseleague of 10-12 teams per age group. The houseleague I had also had a “select” team that would travel to a few tournaments each year and that was hitting. That was the level where you could learn to hit if you weren’t good enough to play rep.
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Actually, I’m posting about Calgary.
My son’s organization used to be the largest hockey association outside of the GTA until they redrew the boundaries and our feeder subdivisions started to age. We fielded 12 teams in novice just from our own association one year. (I think we’re down to only 6 this year).
There are at least 15 different hockey associations in Calgary.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, that’s not that true any more either. At least here in Calgary, there is a fairly well established “rec hockey” program that is no hit at all ages. It’s also “no practices” and “same time slots every week” as well.
It appeals to multi-sport kids and kids who want to play hockey but aren’t “driven” to play hockey.
I’ve known several kids who’ve crossed over, and there isn’t a stigma to playing it, but it IS seen as nearly a different sport to a large degree.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
That’s good. But it probably isn’t available in Ohio and Cali (where I believe Skinny and Chemmy are).
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Is he from Ohio than? I could have sworn he has talked about it.
Regardless I can’t imagine CT can offer that either.
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Or just, ya know, let them play hockey with their friends and not make such a big deal out of children hitting each other. We could do that too.
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Right. We could work on letting them have fun and work on fundamental skills like shooting and doing exciting things.
It’s not just good for the players, it’s good for the game. I’d rather see skilled players demonstrate their talent than get run over by a kid with a growth spurt.
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Is there a rep team in the states of the best/biggest kids who hit younger than 13? Because I know we played US teams in some tournaments and they would hit so would they keep those teams or raise the hitting age for the “elite” as well?
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The hitting change started this year. When I played AAA and we ran train on Ontario / Quebec teams our normal game plan was “hit them until they don’t want to play anymore”.
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funny enough, when I played AAA and we played American teams (can’t say we ran a train, but we did alright) it was “go low because those kids throw elbows”
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
And when the US teams went international it was, have circles skated around you by teams that practice things not related to hitting.
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Yeah I remember this too… We were told watch out for elbows.
Also use your speed and skill. And my team was a plugger team usually :)
I was personally told “hey stop some pucks” so uhh nothing new :(
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I threw a cross body block during one of those tourny’s too, it was amazing
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
but I don’t buy that kids are afraid to get hit.
Chemmy and I have coached for the last three years. We’ve had kids tell us this directly.
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They shouldn’t play hockey then I guess. Or there should be some sort of program in place that teaches the kids how to properly take or avoid checks so this doesn’t happen.
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Yes they shouldn’t play a fun sport. Good solution.
Hint: the plan is to get more kids to play, not to tell more kids to not play.
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If the kids are learning to hit at a younger age they won’t be scared of hitting when they get to an age where hitting can actually hurt them. I think the problem is that parents don’t want their 7 or 8 year olds hitting, so they make them start hitting right around puberty where some kids are a lot more mature or bigger than the others.
Where I played hockey growing up in Burlington there was no hitting in houseleague, ever, and it started in Rep hockey around 10 or 11 or something, the problem was this made it almost impossible for new kids to make it on a rep team after playing houseleague. This is often cited as one of the reasons why Burlington produces so few NHL players whereas Oakville seems to do fine at the same (while being a smaller city until a few years ago).
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Uhh...
If the kids are learning to hit at a younger age they won’t be scared of hitting when they get to an age where hitting can actually hurt them
7 year olds can’t get hurt from hits?
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You eliminate the issue of kids who are a lot more physically mature, as none of these kids are going through their puberty stage and others arent, and none of them are going to be super big and able to lay out big hits. Obviously kids are always going to get hurt in hockey whether there’s hitting or not.
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right, because all 7 year olds are the same size
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Ancedotal supporting evidence: one of the kids in my first grade class was 5 feet tall.
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sweet lord that’s a big first grader
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
This is a growth chart for 2-20 year olds in the US
5th-95th percentile for height:
44-51 inches. 3’4" to 4’3"
Weight:
35-65 lbs
To be fair though that is still only 9 out of 10 kids. You have a league of 8 teams with 14 players per team you have over 100 players. There are going to be some kids bigger (and smaller) than this range.
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The league I coach in has three teams in our division. I have a kid who’s like 3’5" and another team has a kid who’s at least 5’0".
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Let's rank necessary hockey skills in order of most to least importance
Skating
Hockey Sense
Shooting
Passing
…
…
…
…
Hitting
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Luke Schenn would like a word with you. He’s been doing it wrong this year! ;-)
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Hockey Sense
The hockey sense you develop in a non-hitting league isn’t going to work in a hitting league. If a kid is playing hockey where there is hitting it’s pretty important that he learns to take and avoid checks.
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see, learning to take a hit and not be hurt is much different than learning how to hit
when i was 7 we had a coach who taught us the fundamentals of avoiding being blind sided and not getting hit from behind head first into the boards
he never once showed us how to actually hit someone
there will always be some asshole who is going to throw a hit in a non-contact league or incidental contact
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
They shouldn’t play hockey then I guess.
Congratulations on completely missing the point
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I don’t get the point, how does making the hitting age older eliminate this problem, it just delays it.
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There shouldn’t be hitting in house league. Period.
Then it’s not a problem EVER and you continue to have kids playing hockey.
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All I got out of hitting in house league hockey was a bunch of concussions and suspensions.
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
How old were you when you got your concussions?
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That’s a good question. Didn’t start hitting until I was I guess 12 or so? Really just saying I never found hitting to really mean all that much to me playing house league hockey.
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
And I’d say probably the concussions occurred mainly between 15-18
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
:( Concussions suck.
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Yeah they sure do.
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I’ve had 3…
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve never had one diagnosed but I think I had one, basically all they would do was bring you to the bench and ask you a few questions and if you could answer them you’d be deemed fine.
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Yeah my dad was always the trainer on my team so he was pretty serious about that stuff. I had to quit AAA because I just didn’t want to deal with more conkys.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
We had a serious trainer on the team when I played A, but that wasn’t where I got my bell rung a few times.
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Yeah having a legit trainer is really important. Also interestingly, high school hockey in Toronto is slowly working its way to non-contact. This year the tier-2 division was made non-contact and my coach, who is the convener, believed tier-1 will be non-contact within 5 years. Just too many guys getting run. We had a game just before family day weekend and some kid went Lucic on our goalie. Game got out of hand after that, he got 2 mins for interference. The GTHL coaches of lots of these guys are really pissed when they lose a good player to a shitty injury from school hockey
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
High school hockey is virtually non-existant in Alberta.
That boned me so much when I moved out here in Grade 11.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
That sucks. We just wrapped our season up :( lost 4-3 in double OT in regional semis
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
They need to limit who can play in school hockey in Toronto…
In WCSSAA (Waterloo county secondary school athletic association) if you had signed a rep card you were ineligible to play high school hockey. Therefore it was only people who had given up playing travel hockey and only wanted to play for their school. A LOT of rep kids dropped down to hgih school hockey because of this
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Halton region has a similar thing. Lots of guys give up their OMHA rep status to play high-school hockey
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Even 07-08 my last year of Highschool hockey I think it was only GTA who still allowed rep to play highschool. In all our tournaments we never ran into a team that still had players playing rep…
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TDSB allows it, I know that. Anything outside of Toronto I couldn’t tell you, but we played in a tournament in Burlington a few weekends ago, against mainly Oakville and Burlington schools, and it was a lot different than playing Toronto teams.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Toronto doesn’t really have the junior hockey programs the rest of Ontario does.
A lot of kids who play high school hockey and raise the calibre of play in GTA would be playing Jr B or C in other areas of the province.
It’s pretty much OHL, OPJHL or High School for kids in Toronto once they get past midget.
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Yeah we lost our two best players to OJ this year. The guys playing high school hockey in Toronto don’t take it too seriously, they are, for the most part, focused on their AAA and hopefully making a Jr A team or something. Lots of games teams would show up with 7-8 forwards and 4 D, which isn’t that bad, but it’s nice to have 9 forwards and 5 D consistently.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Thats exactly what it is for Waterloo too though.
It goes OHL, JrB or you are playign AAA midget (which takes you until the end of gr12). If you aren’t playing one of those 3 you play highschool, so its mostly the AA and select kids…
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There are Junior C and Junior D teams not far away either.
I played in those leagues so I know that we frequently had games in Waterloo and Oxford County.
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Those are mostly the players once they are done highschool… the 19/20/21 yr olds
Also those leagues are full of fighting…
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Our Junior C teams routinely had at least 6-8 high school age players on the team.
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Maybe the kids from Woolwich played then because the Jr D teams were in like Ayr and Wellesly
there isn’t a jr C team all that close to KW I don’t think…Closest would be Fergus and thats 45 min drive away
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http://www.oha.pointstreaksites.com/view/oha/oha-leagues/junior-c/western-junior-c
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speaking of….shame Port Colbourne is looking to lose their team. the twist is its because of a new arena.
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by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:39 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Elmira isn’t that far from KW isn’t it?
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by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:30 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
oh Jr B. its quite the limbo for players. I like the ones that have been cut from the OHL. usually those kids dominate.
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by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Ben Skinner (Jeff Skinners brother) played with some of my friends on the Siskins because he got cut by the Rangers. He did end up playing 1 yr with them when Jeff was a OHL rookie…
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an OA player in Niagara was cut when Frisen came back from AHL Chicago and is tearing it up for the St. Catharines team. they’ve only lost 8 games or so.
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by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:24 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think Barrie has the same set up.
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
The later you start, the more of them have already hit their growth spurt.
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In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Why not introduce the fundamentals of body positioning and going into contact at a young age in practise while still having no hitting in games? To me that would be the equivalent of teaching kids to add and subtract at a young age, well before they learn calculus.
by stevesmith19 on Feb 28, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
In a perfect world this would probably be the ideal situation.
Unfortunately, we live in the real world and it is populated by hockey parents.
Ask Skinny or Chemmy to tell you about their hockey dad who asked them about the penalty kill.
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How old are Skinny/Chemmy’s players?
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Hahha. An 8-10 year olds penalty kill. I hope they give lectures with powerpoints and use their iPad’s to maximize it’s efficiency!
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Personally I’d be amazed if 10 year olds managed to set up a box.
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As long as they’re not fronting.
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by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
In U10 hockey there’s always a couple of kids doing literally nothing. My PP/PK strategy is “play hockey, one of your teammates or one of your opponents wouldn’t have been in the play anyways”.
U10 hockey is basically trading odd man rushes and hoping your D clears rebounds and your forwards skate to the net instead of deking themselves out.
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Exactly… and lets not forget Chemmy and Skinny aren’t coaching the high level kids either (I assume).
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I’ve watched the high level kids play, and I’m hoping to join a AAA program as a coach next year. I just moved to California and don’t know anyone so it’s hard to say “here’s why you should pay me”.
My team is running roughshod over all of their opponents because I coach to their strengths. In practice we skate hard every drill. Everything we practice involves short bursts of speed while doing technical work (turning, passing, shooting).
My kids outskate, outshoot and outpass their competition because I’m not a moron who thinks 10 year olds should be learning the breakout or the left wing lock.
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my brother in laws brother is trying to get me to coach with him this winter.
I’m nervous about that but as the saying goes “those who can’t, teach”
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by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:03 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Don’t all chase the puck is an advanced (but doable) concept for ten-year-olds.
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In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
I remember when I coached 10 yr olds in houseleague it was the same thing… everything was designed around improving their skating first and foremost. I felt bad for the one kid Tanner though. He just moved from Ottawa where he was AAA to KW and the rep tryouts were already over so he was stuck in houseleague. He scored an average of 7 points a game. Although every goal he scored after 3 he would miss a shift just so he wouldn’t run up the score (his dads idea). Needless to say he was back in AAA the next year.
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when I was 12 I made the AAA team but my dad got word he was being transfered, and there was no concrete date, so the coach decided that instead of potentially having a hole in his roster full time after I left (and to give his son a spot on the team who he had cut) he was going to essentially kick me off the team. at that point AA and A tryouts were all over and all that was left above house league was a C-select team, which was happening the exact day I got cut. I was pissed off and angry, first thing I did was run a kid through the boards and then scored something like 15 goals in the hour long tryout
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
heh. I did that in lacrosse one year. Similar situation … “What do you mean I’m playing in this same age group for the 3rd year in a row because of some bs rule change?”
Got my picture in the paper for scoring at about a 5.2 ppg rate for the first two weeks of the season. After scoring only 1 and 2 goals the entire season in the previous two years.
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
nice, after I made the team, I got all excited because I was sure I was just going to maul the scoring race, but then they found out that there were not enough C-select teams to form a league, so they combined the 4 min roster teams into 2 over max rosters (had some alternates that mainly played house league) and they just bumped us up an age group into Midget house league
so we were 11 and 12 year olds playing against 13 and 14 year olds, first game we are sitting around waiting for the dressing rooms to clear so we can get ready and this 6’2 kid with a mustache walks by with a bag of gear, we thought he was an assistant coach….nope
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
we got fucking destroyed that year because we just could not compete physically, I think we won one game that wasn’t against the other team that got bumped
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
This is what I’ve always thought and been told by people in minor hockey.
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I don’t see how it’s feasible to tell someone paying thousands of dollars for their kids to play recreationally that they are going to spend their limited practice time working on something that won’t help them be better hockey players for a couple of years if they decide to play in a rep league that allows hitting.
The goal when you’re that young has to be on fundamental skills, of which hitting is a secondary skill at best
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In a hitting league it’s not a secondary skill at all, especially if you don’t want to get injured.
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Why do you think hitting is a “secondary skill”, it’s a really important part of the game.
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Because I’ve been on skates since I was 2, and I didn’t learn how to hit until I was 12.
THAT’s why it;s a secondary skill.
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Yes, same, and when I started playing in rep where there was hitting half of the “skills” I had didn’t work any more because I’d just get hit.
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Stop being so obtuse.
You grew up playing hockey in Burlington. Including AAA, A, and house league teams, it’s probably not a stretch to say that 400 kids or more your age were playing organized hockey.
Of those 400, probably no more than half played in leagues that would have permitted body contact.
The skills necessary to play with body contact only translate to, at most, half of those kids. I don’t see how you can possibly make the argument that it’s a primary skill with a straight face.
You don’t need to know how to hit in order to play hockey. You need to know how to skate, pass and shoot.
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stopping helps too
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
You need to know how to hit if you want to play contact hockey. If kids start playing contact hockey younger they are all going to learn how to hit. It’s only a secondary skill if you remove hitting from the game.
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so why should kids who are never going to play contact hockey, or be good enough to play in upper tier leagues have to learn to hit when it is a useless skill for them?
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
so why should kids who are never going to play contact hockey
They shouldn’t, I’m saying that if they are all going to have to start at 12 or whatever this whole debate started with, why not teach them earlier so they can learn when they’re all smaller and all still learning all the other skills at the same time.
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because most kids at that age can barely do cross overs, why do they have to worry about hitting?
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
So that when they’re learning to do cross overs they learn to do it with their head up so they don’t get hit.
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why does a 10 year old need to think about getting hit when he can barely skate? he should be learning to not fall down, and if there is multitasking, it should involve puck skills and positioning
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
The goal when you’re that young has to be on having fun and fundamental skills, of which hitting is a secondary skill at best
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by BCapp on Feb 28, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why not introduce the fundamentals of body positioning and going into contact at a young age in practise while still having no hitting in games?
That’s exactly what USA hockey is doing.
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The only thing I don’t agree with is not having at least one hitting league for the highest level of kids… There are definitely kids who can handle hitting at a younger age, these are the kids who are playing AAA anyways.
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Big picture: it’s better for the AAA talent pools to wait for everyone to be about the same size and have enough fundamentals under their belt to start hitting.
Why limit your available talent pool? Once talent breaks off to AAA vs. A there’s not a lot of cross over since the AAA kids play harder opposition and thus improve more.
Waiting two years might let you find a kid who blossoms late and can do magical things with the puck. That’s way better for hockey than “well, he’s short so that big kid just runs him over”.
USA Hockey’s stance is about removing “hitting to intimidate”. The purpose of checking is to separate your man from the puck, not to break his arm and make him say “I’m afraid to play”. If you throw a hit in U14 in the US now you better be in great position to play the puck right after.
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I’m okay with that. I think Canada tries to limit the unnecessary checks now too. Any big hit along the boards is usually called something unless it was sparkley clean.
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To be honest, lots of these refs are overcalling everything. I got a head contact penalty for a facewash after a guy snowed our goalie. 10 minutes for a facewash is bullshit.
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
There’s a thin line between keeping a game clean and just being incompetent. Would you call a facewash a 10 min head-contact penalty?
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by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Both those things exist.
Maybe not in the states where the participantion numbers are smaller, but Calgary has mandated clinics for all players when they are entering the “hitting years”. Every player goes through multiple on-ice sessions which teach them how to hit – and more importantly how to take a hit and not put themselves in vulnerable positions.
Lacrosse runs exactly the same clinics (although hitting there starts basically from when you start playing) – mandated.
And, failing that, kids can switch to no hit “rec hockey” if they can’t get over their fear of being hit.
What do they do for kids who want to play football but are afraid of getting hit?
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
This, exactly, this is what I’m saying. I think kids should have the option to start hitting though at a younger age so it becomes second nature to them and they develop their skills in a hitting game.
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what the what?
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Look at all those losers. They’ll never make it to the NFL.
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thats offside bro
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by Matt_Roberts on Feb 28, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Are there enough kids that you can create 2 leagues? One with hitting and one without?
I don’t know how many kids are in your area/league. But in Waterloo we had 1 AAA team 1 AA team and 2 select teams. Then 10-12 houseleague teams. All 4 rep teams were hitting and travel teams and the houseleague was just among themselves and non hitting.
Is it possible to combine regions and have a similar type split?
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In Burlington we were similar. We had 1 AAA, 1 AA, 2 A, and an alliance rep A team. There were about 10-16 teams in houseleague for each age. For a while they would split the houseleague into two divisions of 5-8 teams so the more skilled players weren’t playing in the same league as kids who had never skated before. It allowed the better division to be more competitive and allowed the less skilled kids to develop and not be scared to play because kids would make fun of them. What I’m saying is why not have that higher division have hitting?
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10 year old boys (most anyway) don’t think like this. I’m going with Shield on this one…
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by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
Bull shit. They just don’t admit it to their friends and peers. I haven’t been a coach but I was a camp counsellor and 10 year old boys are afraid of plenty of shit. They’ll just act as tough and fearless as the actual fearless ones in front of their friends.
As Chemmy/Skinny said above the kids would come ot them and say they are scared of hitting. They probably told their teammates how excited they were and tough.
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Yeah exactly, so how are they deterred from playing hockey by this fear if they are too scared to admit it? They buck up and learn how to properly take/avoid hits and they don’t get hurt. I moved from non-hitting houseleague to hitting rep hockey at 12 years old and had a really tough time learning to hit and to take hits and to keep my head up at all times, etc. I wish I had learned to hit before and I would have been able to better use my size in rep hockey and maybe would’ve enjoyed it more.
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Or they just drop out of hockey…
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Yeah, and play another sport that they enjoy more.
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Dude. They should be able to play hockey without hitting.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Yes, but if that’s not an option then what do they do? Why is it okay to remove the option for kids to play hockey with hitting just so these few kids who are afraid of hitting can play?
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Why is it okay to remove the option for kids to play hockey without hitting just so these few kids who want to play with hitting can have it their way?
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
just so these few kids who are afraid of hitting can play?
It’s not just to protect kids who are afraid of hitting. It’s also to give time for physical development to be a little closer within the age bracket, and it’s to protect the kids from injury for longer.
Also, I don’t understand why you would use the word “just” when we’re talking about making kids less afraid, and letting them having more fun while playing a recreational sport. Why keep the hitting in, if they’re not physically capable of really, properly protecting themselves?
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They’re still going to be afraid when they get to the age where they hit.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
It’s not just to protect kids who are afraid of hitting. It’s also to give time for physical development to be a little closer within the age bracket, and it’s to protect the kids from injury for longer.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
But if you’re introducing hitting around 12 years old that’s where kids of the same age are going to be more different in their development (see BCapp’s chart above).
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
and even the smallest ones will be farther along their development curve, there will also be a better idea of who is going to be a “good” hockey player and who isn’t
if you are 12 and you are terrible at hockey, but love to play, why should you be shoe horned into a full contact league?
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
then why should that kid learn hitting?
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
He shouldn’t, the kids who are good and want to hit should be able to though.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
This I agree with but if there aren’t enough kids to form a league of these types of kids in places in the states we shouldn’t force kids who aren’t ready to learn to fill up the open spots.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
I agree with this also, I never said once here that all kids should be forced to hit. I said that there should either be an option, or, if they are going to be forced to hit, they should start learning to hit and take hits at a younger age before they’re 12 or 13 and some are giants and assholes.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
they should start learning to hit and take hits at a younger age before they’re 12 or 13 and some are giants and assholes.
Did you misread the graph posted showing that as age progresses, size disparity lessens?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
Apparently, I see the gap getting wider as kids get older on that graph.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
Do me a favour and never run a minor hockey association
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Because I think kids should have the option to play in either hitting or a non-hitting league? Because I think that, if they are going to be hitting, they should be learning while they’re younger so they get comfortable with it?
Both of these options are employed by a LOT of leagues.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
I think I just identified the problem.
You keep talking in terms of rep hockey. Everyone else is talking in terms of house league.
Considering that there’s probably 5-8 kids in every city or town playing house league for every kid that plays rep, house league is the lifeblood of a minor hockey organization. So you need to be able to keep kids interested in playing hockey throughout their childhood and into adulthood. You don’t achieve that by applying rules from rep hockey to house league that causes kids to decide that they don’t want to play hockey anymore.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
No, I’m talking in terms of houseleague also, I didn’t like as a kid where there was no hitting in house league because it made it a lot harder to make the transition to rep (which my parents couldn’t afford the time or money for when I was really young). It closes the door to play competitive hockey to a lot of kids when they don’t learn how to hit and take hits properly as they develop their other skills. There are a lot of differences between hitting and non-hitting hockey other than the lack of hitting, it totally changes the effectiveness of certain styles of play.
Flugenweb, space code, twit zone, ass mode, check ze tweets.
why the hell should there be hitting in house league? I mean most kids in house league will never ever ever play rep hockey at any level, why do they need to know how to hit?
House league is a “just for fun” league for everyone from kids who just don’t like pressure to kids who can barely skate at 13 years old
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I coach 10 year olds. I hang out in the locker room with them. I’m friendly. We talk a lot.
Please, enlighten me on what 10 year old hockey players think.
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The conversation has developed since that original post of mine. We’re talking about two completely different set of 10 year old kids.
Canadian 10 year olds generally don’t think about quitting hockey because they are afraid of hitting. The vast majority of them absolutely cannot wait when they are in their last year of “no hit”. Not 100% for sure. There may have been some kids who dropped out at the hitting age because they were afraid – statistically speaking, because it’s in the realm of possibility, it must be a non-zero number. But it’s pretty rare. In this particular social background.
I know far more kids who’ve dropped out of hockey because the cost of it than the the fear of hitting.
I also have coached 10 year olds. (I don’t any more because both my kids are older now and so I’ve moved on), but I’ve seen the scene and the conversation repeated over and over again with kid’s my son’s age, their younger brothers and sisters, etc etc.
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Canadian 10 year olds generally don’t think about quitting hockey because they are afraid of hitting.
I really doubt American 10 year olds and Canadian 10 year olds have intrinsic and fundamentally different approaches to checking in hockey.
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Canadian 10 year olds
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by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Chemmy and I coached some knuckle heads who dropped to hit as soon as possible too. It’s what young boys do. Then there were the smaller kids on the team who didn’t want to get hit by the bigger kids.
The thing is though, you don’t remember the kids who drop out because they’re simply not around anymore. All of the figures point to a sharp drop in participation once hitting is involved (US and Canada). In the US we used to hit 2 years earlier than Canada and USA Hockey said enough was enough; we’re putting off hitting until Bantams.
I fully expect the figures to show a dramatic increase in participation as a result.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
No. That’s not it at all. The kids themselves are the ones afraid, parents are fucking clueless for the most part.
Chemmy and I coached a team together last year and one girl got a concussion early in the season and missed 2 weeks with terrible headaches. Second practice back she gets tripped awkwardly and slams her head on the ice. She’s a little woozy so I send her off the ice. Her dad then sends her right back on telling me “The doctor said she was good to go. No need to baby her.” I was stunned by this.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
It was ugly too. Her eyes were glassed over, she didn’t know where she was. She looked like somebody woke her up at three in the morning and told her Santa Claus died because she asked for too many presents.
Skinny and I didn’t get asked back to coach there, and I’m guessing that was a large part of it given that her dad was a big shot with the program.
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Did you consider calling an ambulance?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
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My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
No need for that because it’s not an emergency situation. She didn’t black out or throw up. USA Hockey states we are simply to remove them from the ice and not allow them back on until we have a written and signed doctor’s note clearing them.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
I’m pretty sure Skinny and I would have been forcibly removed from the ice if we tried. I “worked one on one” with her which involved me giving her passes as softly as I could until practice was over.
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That dad is fucking nuts.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Today’s practice plan, verbatim:
Middle Ice Breakout —> 1v1 – On coaches mark, D wheels wlpuck behing the net. At same time, F swings low in zone and flat across slot. D makes BO pass to F. Players then loop around cones in NZ and back for 1v1. Have players alternate through lines. When tirst pair is tinished, next pair goes. Body contact to deny ice is encouraged.
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The Rangers potential list of players they were offering for Nash got leaked. LA tried but were told they weren’t on the list. We all know Burke had to make some sort of an offer. Any guesses at who was part of the deal? Schenn, Macarthur, Kadri and a 1st?
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:22 PM EST reply actions
Based on the Rangers offer, likely was another blueline prospect included in there as well – maybe Aulie?
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think that you’ve confused this site with hfboards and should probably take your question back over there
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I’m not saying that is or should be the offer. I am questioning what would have been our offer.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
I’m saying that you’re asking the question on the wrong damn site
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Can’t speculate about the components of a trade here any more?
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
You can speculate whatever you want.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
It was reported that NYR, SJ and Leafs were the last teams in on Nash. Was simply wondering how our deal would have compared, if BB made a serious offer or just lowballed Howson.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
No worries. It was a fair question. All I now is that whatever was wanted was way too much.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I’d also be interested in hearing what the Oilers offered for Aulie.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Cam Barker, straight up
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
I’d have taken that. Not sure quite what happened to Barker over the last couple of seasons, but he WAS good and is young enough to have a chance to recapture that…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t tell if you’re kidding or not…. Barker is awful.
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
More so than Keith Aulie even.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
No, he was never good. You were merely tricked by competent coaching.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
I suppose that’s possible.
but then the entire league was taken in those years in chicago because they never seemed to be able to take advantage of it…
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Someone would need to pull the advanced stats for him from back then and analyze them. My impression is that he was pretty good back then in his particular role (which was playing behind Campbell, Seabrook and Keith – so that helped a ton no doubt)
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
There were specific names… I believe Gardiner was the one that CBJ considered a “must” in the deal and that was Burke’s dealbreaker….
I think it was along the lines of Gardiner, Frattin, Kadri + 1st?
No no, dig UP stupid.
by nhlcheapshot on Feb 28, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
In response to all the conversations going on above, do we even know where the picks for Mac, Schenn, Kulie and Grabbo were coming from? For all we know a team in top 10 position wanted Schenn b/c they think he’ll be better than what they can get. But on the flip side, maybe it was someone who will likely be drafting in the bottom 8.
We have no idea where these picks might have been so I don’t think we can fairly judge whether or not Burke was right in not pulling the trigger. All we can do is trust his judgement, which hasn’t been 100%, but no ones is..
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I really doubt Brian Burke is turning down top 10 picks.
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So do I. Which is why I’m not that upset he stood pat.
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
Twitter me this.
Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Nashville and NYR i suspect, possibly STL as well.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
I was kind of hoping to get me some Chris Stewart but I knew it was but a dream….
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
This hitting in hockey debate is getting out of hand, so I think we need a new debate topic.
Bacon: great, or greatest? Discuss.
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by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:29 PM EST reply actions
how old was the pig?
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:30 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The younger the better baby.
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is there a pig version of veal?
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Suckling pig.
http://kerfuffles.blogsome.com/images/sucklingpig_01.jpg
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well I’ll be craving that forever now
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Also please please please buy humanely raised pork. Most research suggests pigs are smarter than cats and dogs. Factory farmed pigs have their tails and ears cut off because in tight pens they attack each other because they feel cramped and scared.
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Why does losing their ears and tails make them less aggressive to each other?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
No I think he means they do it to eachother
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
Twitter me this.
Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
two separate points i think
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever the specifics factory farming of animals disturbs me more and more everytime I learn more details.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Anyhow, chickens are dumb as shit and cows aren’t geniuses, but factory farming is awful to pigs. The more I learn about pigs the worse I feel for them.
The bright side of ditching supermarket meat is that the good stuff raised by farmers who care about their animals is that it tastes better.
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I miss my old butcher, he had two prices, the nice guy/family price and the rich asshole price (his words)
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I hate being broke… since I can’t eat the level of food I’d really like (though I still try to at least buy non-factory farmed meat)
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
The good news is cheap cuts of meat are delicious! Pork shoulder and belly and skirt steak are the best. Historically poor people make the best food: they have to be creative with what they’ve got and that means good dishes.
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Oh the number of different ways we eat chicken on a weekly basis is staggering.
I usually get my fill of good meat on weekends (lots of restaurants in Chicago have good humanely raised pork and beef products)
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
I tell people this all the time. I love cookign with the those meats. Best flavour and best way to develop flavour
Fairweather fans can go to hell
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Start eating vegetarian meals.
Way cheaper and you can make stuff that’s legitimately tasty.
Fiancee and I did it for a month in the winter and we probably only eat 2-3 dinners a week with meat in them now.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Naaaah. Buy a slow cooker. It’s a bit of an up front investment, but like Chemmy mentioned above, opens up a whole world of good dishes out of cheap cuts, and you don’t even have to sacrifice eating delicious meat.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
We kind of do the same thing since we’re both big fans of different pasta dishes. We generally have chicken 1x per week, and then go out to eat 1x per week
Finally got twitter...@mapleleafmjt
by Chi-town leafs on Feb 28, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
I did that on a bet once, and I hated it, I mean the food was good and all, but all I could think was “this would be so much better with meat in it”
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Same here, but i have diluted the meat with extra veggie portions lately and that works out pretty well for me.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Seriously, pigs are the most underrated animals. People are disgusted by them for some reason (misconceptions, desert-based nonsense, etc.) but they are intelligent and generally awesome creatures.
by stevesmith19 on Feb 28, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
They’re incredibly clean as well, though they like to eat garbage.
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Dogs like to eat garbage and roll around in mud as well so i can’t really hold it against pigs
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Absolutely. They have such an undeserved reputation.
by stevesmith19 on Feb 28, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
I raise you a Mini pig
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 28, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They remove the ears and tails because when the pigs are aggressive they can’t tear each others ears and tails off. Less chance of infection or death from a fight.
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That is disturbingly logical and cold. Ugh…
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Factory farming is pump and dump. It’s awful for the well being of animals, and I know we’re killing them for food but that doesn’t mean their whole life has to be shitty.
It’s also awful for you, they’re full of hormones and antibiotics and they taste crappy.
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It’s worse in America. I’m genuinely worried about the quality of meat when I go there, way more steroids and nasty shit in it.
by Goosemonster on Feb 28, 2012 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
You are a wealth of knowledge.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Ohhh I see.
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
Twitter me this.
Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Since it isn’t usually plastered over the deli counter, any resource so I can tell which brands are/aren’t humanely raised?
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
Gotta do research. Whole Foods puts tags on meat with how humanely it was raised, but if you want to be sure try to buy local.
The first time you eat a local heritage pig you’ll never doubt the cost.
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my dad just bought a cow from a farmer he met. it was like picking out a lobster. Ill take…….that one.
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:46 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
That’s awesome if you can find that.
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he’s found us all kinds of things since he made friends with a rich guy. and I’m reaping the benefits (loans him my chest freezer, get free meat)
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:51 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
one of the guys my dad used to work with retired and bought some old farm land, he bought three calves one year and we went up and saw them, I was maybe 12 and my sister 9, he let us name all three, they were all females but we named them Barney, Fred and Bam Bam
we went back a couple years later for dinner and we were about to eat and my dad mused out loud “so what ever happened to the flintsones?”
guy opens the oven and says “well I think this was barney” as he pulls out the roast
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by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
A couple more weeks before my local farmer’s market is open again. Fortunately: Wegman’s is usually pretty good about that kind of stuff, because Wegman’s is awesome.
RIP Former-and-forever Leaf Wade Belak
Me on Twitter
usually those aren’t at supermarkets
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:44 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Which is what makes this kind of thing extraordinarily difficult if you live in a smaller city (worse transit system) without a car.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
yeah. I got lucky to have such a butcher up the street from me. its not an everyday purchase, but I enjoy it.
I used to buy my meat fresh everyday from the street Lawrence market on my way home from work. got to know the butcher there. he had a crush on my wife so she got a bit extra every now and then.
I will hate you forever if you argue about players nationality or that the Leafs only care about money.
by elseldo on Feb 28, 2012 4:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Incredibly difficult is actually an exageration. More like annoying.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Have you ever tried carrying 3 lbs of meat and fresh vegetables on a hour long bike ride when your bike doesn’t have a place to strap things too… its difficult
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
buy a car, hippy
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t afford one :(
Also I lost my bike last summer so now I can’t even do that
FUCK IM SCREWED!
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
you lost your bike?
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
Lost/stolen yeah… I left it in the backyard of my friends house not locked up for like a week straight and it was gone when I went back for it… I blame myself for leaving it there but at the same time his back yard backs onto a corn field so you don’t expect many people to be back there
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Real bacon or that bullshit uncured “no nitrates” crap?
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Maple bacon= awesome
I’m not sure what they do but bacon with a hint of maple
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
They put maple syrup in the rub and likely smoke it over maple hardwood.
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om nom nom
Y'all heard about me, you just didn't know it was me
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 28, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like I’ll be having breakfast for dinner tonight.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
How does peameal (or Canadian bacon) play into the discussion?
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
It’s great on the BBQ when you get the crust nice and crispy.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
it has to be brined. I’ve done this myself. sooo worth it.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
by Van Ryn's Neurologist on Feb 28, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Scott MacArthur ‏ @TSNScottyMac
#Leafs lines vs. #FlaPanthers: Lupul-Bozak-Kessel, MacArthur-Grabovski-Frattin, Lombardi-Connolly-Kulemin, Brown-Steckel-Crabb. #NHL
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Oh yeah there’s a game tonight.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
vs the Southeast division on a Tuesday.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Lets talk about hitting in youth hockey some more.
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts.
by Self Destructive Zones on Feb 28, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Burke should have found a player that destroys the Southeast division on Tuesdays and traded for them.
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
Even better, he should sign a 10 year old and force the NHL to become non-contact!
Popped a Colboner - Certified Joe Colborne Fanboy
I'm telling you I was the King of Spain (now I eat humble pie)
Now the Leafs call me up to drive the Zamboni
Twitter me this.
Welcome home Chaim Weisswasser!
by happiergilmore on Feb 28, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
CAR: 1-1-1 (1-0-0)
FLA: 0-2-0 (0-2-0)
TB: 2-0-0 (2-0-0)
WSH: 1-2-0 (0-0-0)
WPG: 2-2-0 (0-1-0)
So, 6-7-1 against the SE; 3-3-0 on Tuesdays. Interesting.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
Slumpbusters!
(Our own for once)
This space for rant...
by fair_n_hite_451 on Feb 28, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
It’s still pathetic that we have a losing record against the crappiest division in hockey.
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Brutal record against those teams but they play a trap we can’t seem to break. 1st goal is so important tonight
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 28, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Lombardi – Connolly – Kulemin aka “WE REFUSE TO SHOOT THE PUCK”
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
O/U on shots by that line: 1.5
OPERATION TANK IS A GO.
In an unprecedented move 9 teams in the Eastern Conference have decided to officially "pass" on the playoffs
HE’S SPINNING THE PUCK ON HIS STICK! JUST TAKE IT ALREADY!
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
You took your entire month’s pay and bet it AGAINST the Globetrotters?
I THOUGHT THE GENERALS WERE DUE!
TWEET AT ME BRO
DAAAAA BLOG
Leaf fan for life! (No, really. They gave me a no-trade clause when I was born.)
by FiftyMissionCap on Feb 28, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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