PPP's Top 25 Under 25 - #4 Luke Schenn
Four seasons into Luke Schenn's career, what do we know?
We know that he probably provides more offensive upside than Leaf fans expected when he was drafted 5th overall in 2008. Without the benefit of virtually any time on the powerplay, Schenn has incrementally improved from 14 to 17 to 22 last season. With 15 points through 52 games, he's on pace for 23 points this year (in significantly reduced ice time). And all but one of those points has been earned at even strength.
We know that he's one of the most prolific hitters in the league. Take the statistics regarding hits for what they are, he has registered at least 150 hits in every season of his career, and was 8th in the league last season (and currently stands 6th in hits this season).
We know that he has issues with footspeed. Whether it's just that he's not a particularly strong skater, or that perhaps he's put too much muscle on in the past summers, Schenn isn't a terribly fast skater. It leads to issues with positioning and he can be caught flat-footed.
And we know that for all the potential to be a shut-down defender, he's yet to show it. The Leafs have given up a significant number of shots and scoring chances while Luke's on the ice, and he hasn't been the victim of a significantly difficult workload that could help explain it. All told he certainly is not ready to take on this role.
So what do we really know? We know that at 22 years old, Schenn still has a significant amount of time to develop as a player, and that as a defenceman, his development trajectory is going to take longer. He's a player who certainly has some warts but he remains a very valuable young player and checks in at #4 on our Top 25 Under 25.
As of this moment, Luke is probably the Leafs 6th defenceman, based on ice time and usage. He hasn't seen too much of the ice in close games, and his average ice time, which was much lower at around 11 minutes earlier in the season, has settled around 16 minutes a night. For a 4th year pro, that's a dramatic step back from the nearly 22 minutes he played for the Leafs last season, a good chunk of which came after the Leafs jettisoned veteran defenders Francois Beauchemin and Tomas Kaberle.
But let`s put the numbers in context compared to what goest on around the league.
Since the lockout, 91 defenceman have played more than 1500 minutes (roughly 20 minutes a game) in either their 3rd or 4th season in the league. Just by scanning the age column, you see a lot of players around 24, 25 years old. In fact, if you filter that down, and include only players that are either 21 or 22 years old, you`re left with 17. Luke`s ice time last season was the 7th most of all those players. The players that do make that list comprise some of the most highly touted young defenders in the league.
Dion Phaneuf. Drew Doughty. Mike Green. Brent Burns. Brent Seabrook. Erik Johnson. Alex Pietrangelo. Alex Edler. Braydon Coburn. Kris Letang.
Why are there so few players making a list of this calibre? Because not many defenceman get the opportunity to have two or three seasons under their belt by that time. Defenceman take much longer to develop than forwards, and only the very best young defenders are capable of playing in the NHL as a teenager. Looking around the Leafs own blueline at their other young defenders, Cody Franson didn't enter the NHL until 22. Jake Gardiner is just playing his first season as a pro at the age of 21. Carl Gunnarsson was 23 when he jumped to the NHL.
Hindsight being what it is, Luke Schenn probably should not have played in the NHL at the age of 18. He was rushed into the league because Cliff Fletcher failed to put together an adequate defence, and even though his role was to be a caretaker for the franchise until a permanent replacement could be found, he made a number of short-sighted moves that Richard Peddie never should have allowed. Trading away a substantial amount of picks for marginal NHL players was one (though he was redeemed on Grabovski). Making a trade on the eve of Burke's appointment to the position was another. Letting Luke Schenn play in the NHL at age 18 on a team with no chance of being successful could arguably be a third.
However, I don't believe the damage done to Schenn's career is permanent, or even all that significant to be honest. Schenn still has plenty of time to evolve into the defensive shut-down player that Leaf management and fans hope he will become, and the added depth on the blueline means the Leafs aren't screwed on defence should Schenn be suffering through growing pains. At the same time I don't think it's the worst thing in the world that Schenn has to fight for his ice time; in Schenn's short time in the league he's proven himself to be a highly competitive and smart young kid, and the challenge will hopefullty push him to become better.
Schenn remains one of the best young defenceman the Leafs have in the organization.
| JP Nikota | PPP | Chemmy | SkinnyFish | birky | PFACNF | clrkaitken |
| 4 | 4 | 2 | 5 | 7 | 4 | 6 |
It should come as no surprise that birky ranks Schenn lower than anyone else on the panel, dropping him down to 7th. Schenn's rankings were actually quite varied, going as high as 2 and as low as 7, but the most popular vote was #4, which is where he lands having just shaded out Joe Colborne.
Oh, Schenn. Our Luke and Savior. Where has everything gone wrong. We were promised Adam Foote, but were delivered a Luke Richardson. Your handsome Saskatchewan looks can't atone for your lack of mobility or absence of mind in the Leafs zone. That's not to say you're bad at hockey. You'll probably play 1000 games in the NHL. But while Karl Alzner was allowed to develop slowly in the WHL and AHL, piss poor roster management by JFJ and Cliff Fletcher left a gaping hole at RD and you were thrust into a position you weren't quite ready for. You never told anyone you were going to be a top-4 defender. You were just Luke. The media and the fans put those labels on you, and it has been unfair since day one. You seem like a great guy. It will be a sad day for many fans when Brian Burke trades you for James van Riemsdyk or Bobby Ryan or whoever. I will seriously almost feel sad and nostalgic about the hope you offered as the turning point for a moribund franchise. But then I'll remember we just got JvR or Bobby Fucking Ryan and get really, really happy.
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birky will probably stop by later to tell you why Schenn sucks so much.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I tried writing a fair blurb about him. I really did.
I just couldn’t get past the first sentence without it breaking down into a combination of cursing and long sighs.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
by birky on Feb 7, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Luke Schenn……Mike Komisarek 2.0?
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
by SkinnyFish on Feb 7, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I put Luke Schenn SECOND?
No way.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
That is significantly more reasonable than 7th
Come get your duds in order 'cuz we're bound to cross the water, HEAVE AWAY, me jollies, HEAVE AWAY -- Bowl of Fruit Lups in the evening gets the playoffs started!!
I saw a bunch of 6th-8th’s on there and one 10th.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Thanks for linking that. Now I don’t have to hunt for it to do the consensus rankings.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
No worries. The easiest way to find it would be to just click on your name and go to your “blog” section. Then just find it there.
I just googled pppeanut thought because I remembered that was in the title.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
OH FUCK ! I thought we were doing jersey numbers!
-Chemmy
At least it's not Lebda.
by Nifty Mittens on Feb 7, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Where was your head?
Staring into those dreamy blue eyes of OLAS?
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 7, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Oh man, if you put Schenn 4th or lower, Colborne jumps him in our standings.
The First Certified Grabbo Lover
2 through 7 was a mess. If you re-do those rankings today I bet every single one of does their rankings differently.
This is going to get real fun once Kessel turns 25. The votes will probably go every which way.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
wait….Kessel isn’t 25?
that’s……..that’s….awesome
Goals scored on Stanley Cup winning goalies by Scott Gomez this past year: 0
Goals scored on Stanley Cup winning goalies by me: 1
by elseldo on Feb 7, 2012 3:31 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Zdeno Chara, through four seasons:
231 games, 29 points, -61.
Defensemen simply take longer to develop. As much as I would like to evaluate Schenn based on his performance, it’s just too soon.
The list of comparables is telling.
Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
Zdeno Chara had a freak career progression. Using him as an example is pretty useless. It would be like using St Louis to try to prove that a player could break out later, or using Selanne to show that players start to suck in their early 30s than get great again in their mid-30s to their 40s, or using Lidstrom to show that defenseman don’t peak just remain awesome somehow.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
Thanks for these examples.
They should pretty much allow me to prove whatever the fuck crappy idea I have in the weeks to come.
I just hope Jared isn’t taking notes too.
Cheers.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 7, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I dont take notes, sounds too much like school to me
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 7, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Or using Tim Thomas to show that 31-year-old career minor leaguers are potential Vezina Trophy winners just waiting for a chance…
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 7, 2012 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think too much muscle isn’t really a valid argument as to why he’s slow. If anything, he’d be more explosive and faster.
Any muscle on the upper body quite clearly would have no positive effect on his foot speed. Obviously it has other uses, but added weight is added weight.
negative, upper body muscles are important because they provide compensating motions to counteract the energy expelled by the lower body. Look at the upper bodies of sprinters, or football players for that matter.
Or speedskaters! (Oh wait…)
"To be a Leafs fan is to know your heart will be broken in the end."
–Seamus Borschevsky
by Berezin's Spleen on Feb 7, 2012 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
right, but comparably, most good hockey players (especially skaters) have disproportionaly large legs
guys like Marty St Louis have thighs thicker than their waist
Resident Internet Tough Guy
by JaredFromLondon on Feb 7, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
And heads, bigger than your goiter.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 7, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Increasing weight is very likely to decrease speed and agility unless the weight is put on very intelligently.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I try to put most of my extra weight on the gas.
But, intelligently so.
That – plus new Go-Faster Valvoline</em> – has increased my average commuting speed.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 7, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
I WAS PROMISED A BIRKY WRITE UP
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
by leafer1984 on Feb 7, 2012 2:37 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Not nearly as bad as I thought it would be
Fairweather fans can go to hell
Equal oppurtunity asshole and a proud member of the PPPPP
Follow me on twitter: leafer1984
Or 3.
Or was he 1. DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
if he’s rated in front of Kessel, I’m flying to personally smack all the people who ranked him in the face, with a glove. Challenging them each to a duel.
by Goosemonster on Feb 7, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As a long-time non-fan of Schenn’s, a couple of thoughts. Forget his age, he’s still got lots of time to develop. Strength-wise, he’s going to be a monster as he hits his mid-20’s and bulks out. Offensively, he’s fine, and could very well become a 30 point a year guy, without doing much PP time. And even, forget straight-away foot speed.
For Schenn, it’s all about the speed with which he reads situations, and then reacts – gets that first step. Send him through a special training camp this Summer, where al he does is read plays at the opposing blue line… read plays coming out of the corner…. looks for the outlet when he first picks up the puck… and where he works on that first step, making sure it’s quick, strong and in the right direction.
If he had that down – the quick response, he’d be OLAS.
Without it, he’s what we see a lot of today. Watch him at the other team’s blueline, the numbers of pucks juuuust missed as they make it past him. Watch him not sure of whether the guy is behind him, and if so, where. Watch him get the puck, and freeze, or dump it to his partner who is in a worse position.
People can tell me that I only see it because I’m looking for it, but truth is, I’d LOVE this kid to become an old-style Tim Horton, Allan Stanley shut-down defenceman. But right now… his brain is the thing not reacting quickly enough.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
SChenn definitely struggles with his first pass out of the zone.
If he finds the pass he’s looking for it’s a great one. If he doesn’t it usually ends up in a turnover and Bowen saying “tothelinebutnotout”
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
I don’t think he has been nearly as bad this year as some people think. I know people are gonna tell me its a useless stat, be he is like a plus 10 with no pp time and a lot of pk time. That’s not a bad sign
by jd90 on Feb 7, 2012 3:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not to be mean, but +/- explicitly excludes PP and PK time. And yes, it’s a statistic that’s only marginally useful.
Further: he hasn’t been killing penalties at all since at least December. Gunnarsson, Phaneuf and Gardiner log the PK time.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 7, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t know that. Oh well that sorta kills that argument
by jd90 on Feb 7, 2012 3:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Schenn not being able to make the breakout pass resulting in the Leafs being hemmed in their zone only shows up in +/- if it ends with the puck in the Leafs’ net.
67 Sound in particular has been tracking Schenn’s advanced stats, such as Corsi and Fenwick. They’re awful.
Cynically Sarcastic
Сертыфікаваны Grabbo Палюбоўнік
Worse than awful. I had to run the numbers myself to believe them.
They’re often “chunked” in really bad games, but still.
I think it partially has to do with not much offense being created when he’s on the ice (usually RW will switch to a Liles/Franson/Phaneuf/Gunnar combination in the o-zone if possible) but even if you only look at the negative side (i.e. in the Leafs zone), it’s awful.
No no, dig UP stupid.
The question is which Schenn is the real Schenn? The one from this season getting killed from a possession standpoint with <50% o-zone starts against the fourth best competition among defenders or the one from last season who had the highest Corsi On among not-Lebdas with <50% o-zone starts against third best competition.
Were they good last year? I don’t feel like I’ve seen a huge drop off in his play this year
by jd90 on Feb 7, 2012 3:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Luke Richardson still strikes me as a good comparison for what Schenn has been and could become. I think you’re absolutely correct that it’s decision-making more than any physical deficiency that is holding him back right now.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 7, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Worst thing is – and bad timing for me to say it – but I could never stand Luke Richardson. A career -120 or something, while averaging less than 10 points a season, plus no Cups, will do that.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 7, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Well, there you go. For what it’s worth, IMO Richardson developed in to a very useful player, but not until after his first four years in Toronto.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 7, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
there is significantly less bickering in this post than I anticipated, you have all let me down
Resident Internet Tough Guy
I’m assuming everyone agrees with my ranking and general feelings on Schenn.
Pension Plan Puppets
I hope YouTube comes down to film this.
punk.
/kidsoftodaysuck.hard.
I shot a moose once, in upstate New York.
by not norm ullman on Feb 7, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
… Luke Schenn probably should not have played in the NHL at the age of 18. He was rushed into the league….
If he went back to the WHL or went to AHL instead why would his game be any different? Maybe he could have improved the offensive side of game but I don’t see how that understand how this would effect shutdown game.
I imagine you would get better at shot blocking playing in front of those stiffs
by jd90 on Feb 7, 2012 3:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But it might give you the desperation to try and block a lot of shots
by jd90 on Feb 7, 2012 4:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Sounds like playing confidence then. Speaking from my own experience I usually get better when I play against more difficult competition. As long as his TOI is not cut back (and the team can tolerate gaffs) I don’t see why holding him back matters – ego and self worth aside.
You want competition that stretches you, but doesn’t overwhelm you. Perhaps if he’d had easier competition his first year then he wouldn’t have had so many mental resources dvoted to going “OhCrapWhatDoIDoNowWithArghHereComesAGuy” and more of them to “hmm, where’s the best outlet now.” Maybe he woulda developed some of those mental skills better. Maybe.
Being thrown into the deep end isn’t always the best way to learn to swim. Really, regardless of whether it hindered his development it was a poor investment for the Leafs who now have to deal with a bigger salary hit for their #6 defenceman.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 7, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'll just toss this out there
Luke Schenn’s defensive partner in the WHL was Tyler Myers.
Their boxscores for the two years together?
Schenn-Myers
Year GPG PPG
2007-0.028-0.40///0.034-0.25
2008-0.12-0.49///0.092-0.29
Myers was slightly better than him in goal scoring in 2007 and Schenn was better than him offensively everywhere else. More goals in their draft year and significantly more points both years together.
Schenn goes to the NHL the next year, while Myers stays one more year in the WHL. That year he jumps his scoring up signifcantly to 0.16 GPG and 0.72 PPG.
At the time they were drafted Schenn looked like he had more offence than Myers!
PS just to be preemptive. Burke once tried to say we should compare Schenn’s season one year younger to each of Myers’ because “Schenn is a year older”. This is silly and innacurate. Schenn is 3 months older than Myers.
About time that people finally realized how awesome Gunnar is...
Certified Gunnar & Kule lover!
My new goal: To get the nickname Hebrew Hammer for Mike Brown to take off.
I’m going to get lynched for this, and I have no stats to back me up, but I’m fine with Schenn. He’s a young guy playing the hardest position/expected role in hockey, hits everything that moves, is good in the community and has tons of potential.
I’d be real sad if we traded him for anything other than a mystical Unicorn 1C. I still think he can become an Adam Foote, and he could be the captain of our team someday.
Offizielles Mitglied des Müller / Holzer Fan-Clubs. Ich fordere mehr Deutsche in diesem Team ....... tweet me @Alex_Scotian
by Alspicer on Feb 7, 2012 3:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Plus, he bailed us out when Fletcher forgot that we would need NHL d-men to play hockey.
Offizielles Mitglied des Müller / Holzer Fan-Clubs. Ich fordere mehr Deutsche in diesem Team ....... tweet me @Alex_Scotian
bailed us out? we finished 12th
s •
by sportsfan2 on Feb 7, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t usually have the most positive comments about Schenn’s play.. but I’m always surprised by his age. I always forget that he’s just 22.
That always give me hope that his play will improve and that he doesn’t turn into a Komi 2.0
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If he turned into the Komi that played in Montreal we’d be happy with that.
"They build a statue, they knock it down and piss on it, and now they will be out there building it again."
by ThickSkinnedAlive on Feb 7, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
I think that version of Komisarek was illusory. Certainly the last season he was in Montreal looked much like his time in Toronto.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Feb 7, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions

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